Vanderbilt vs Penn

[pjia]

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Please help! I only have a couple days to decide between my two favorite schools. I have a full tuition scholarship at Vanderbilt so I expect to pay around 70k for four years. I recently got off the waitlist at Penn and with some need based aid, I expect to pay 160k.

My family and friends are in favor of Penn. But since I will be the one paying off debt I am very hesitant and undecided. How do people feel about these schools one way or the other? Thank you.

 

[MadRadLad]

90k is pretty substantial. Vanderbilt is still a very good school. What are your opinions on curriculum, city, etc? It's good to have a support net around you but is it worth 90k? It's a low enough amount that you could probably justify Penn, but make a list of pros/cons. Are there enough pros to suggest choosing Penn that will offset 90k more debt?

 

[leon sandcastle]

You'll be happier at vandy and with less debt. Rankings don't matter at this point

 

[jcaptian]

Given the substantial cost difference (90k) BEFORE interest, I'd go with Vanderbilt.

Both schools are fantastic and will give you every opportunity to succeed. In the end it comes down to what makes you happy. Will graduating with greater financial flexibility make you happy? Or maybe it's the atmosphere/student body? Prestige? Location? Proximity to family/significant other support? Weather? Curriculum? Now is this factor worth 90k?

I am sure you have what it takes to succeed at either institution. You will find your niche. Remember, that 90k will come handy later for that nice house, car, vacation, kid, etc.

 

[pandahunter]

Penn. You won't regret going to a substantially more prestigious school. You're also not going to be in much trouble with 160k debt. Most kids who have to pay their own way through med school graduate with far more than that. With 160k + interest, you'll likely be able to repay it all back within 10 years assuming you don't go into primary care.

Is 90k worth giving up the second best medical training in the country?

 

[GoPelicans]

Penn. You won't regret going to a substantially more prestigious school.

 

[MadRadLad]

Penn. You won't regret going to a substantially more prestigious school. You're also not going to be in much trouble with 160k debt. Most kids who have to pay their own way through med school graduate with far more than that. With 160k + interest, you'll likely be able to repay it all back within 10 years assuming you don't go into primary care.

Is 90k worth giving up the second best medical training in the country?

Not sure if serious. Penn may be slightly higher ranked but i'm pretty sure both are top 15 schools.

 

[riddler]

Is 90k worth giving up the second best medical training in the country?

OP: go where you think you'll be happy.

Pandahunter: Just curious now that you said that - where is the *first* best medical training in the country?

 

[alpinism]

If you like UPenn better, go there.

 

[imnamerican]

Is 90k worth giving up the second best medical training in the country?

1) Not sure where you're getting second best from. I'm sure either Harvard or Hopkins (among other schools) would have something to say about that.

2) Between Vandy/Penn, you're approaching the point of diminishing returns when it comes to better medical training. 90k could very well not be worth the cost, depending on your financial situation.

 

[janey243]

1) Not sure where you're getting second best from. I'm sure either Harvard or Hopkins (among other schools) would have something to say about that.

2) Between Vandy/Penn, you're approaching the point of diminishing returns when it comes to better medical training. 90k could very well not be worth the cost, depending on your financial situation.

Depends on what you want to do as well. Want to be a clinician? Choose Vandy. Want to go into academic medicine or become a recognized expert in your field? Choose Penn.

Penn will also give you better opportunities and a better brand, setting you up for better residency placement. If you get into a better residency program, you'll be more competitive for better jobs with higher salaries, making it possible to recoup the 90k and more over the next twenty years. Worth some thought.

 

[The Beyonder]

Given the substantial cost difference (90k) BEFORE interest, I'd go with Vanderbilt.

Both schools are fantastic and will give you every opportunity to succeed. In the end it comes down to what makes you happy. Will graduating with greater financial flexibility make you happy? Or maybe it's the atmosphere/student body? Prestige? Location? Proximity to family/significant other support? Weather? Curriculum? Now is this factor worth 90k?

I am sure you have what it takes to succeed at either institution. You will find your niche. Remember, that 90k will come handy later for that nice house, car, vacation, kid, etc.

90k can turn into 180k in debt after interest is factored in. I would use AAMC's loan calculator to see what your future loan payments and debt will be. If you're still comfortable with the more expensive option go there.

 

[MadRadLad]

Depends on what you want to do as well. Want to be a clinician? Choose Vandy. Want to go into academic medicine or become a recognized expert in your field? Choose Penn.

Penn will also give you better opportunities and a better brand, setting you up for better residency placement. If you get into a better residency program, you'll be more competitive for better jobs with higher salaries, making it possible to recoup the 90k and more over the next twenty years. Worth some thought.

What? Vanderbilt is also a top 15 research institution. Fact of the matter is that both schools will provide the connections and resources to choose any path. Board scores, research, and grades will make the difference.

 

[sinombre]

Depends on what you want to do as well. Want to be a clinician? Choose Vandy. Want to go into academic medicine or become a recognized expert in your field? Choose Penn.

Penn will also give you better opportunities and a better brand, setting you up for better residency placement. If you get into a better residency program, you'll be more competitive for better jobs with higher salaries, making it possible to recoup the 90k and more over the next twenty years. Worth some thought.

lol... no. Attending a slightly higher US News ranked medical school in no way translates into better future financial prospects. This isn't law school.

 

[An MD Hopeful]

Depends on what you want to do as well. Want to be a clinician? Choose Vandy. Want to go into academic medicine or become a recognized expert in your field? Choose Penn.

Penn will also give you better opportunities and a better brand, setting you up for better residency placement. If you get into a better residency program, you'll be more competitive for better jobs with higher salaries, making it possible to recoup the 90k and more over the next twenty years. Worth some thought.

From what I have been told by attendings and fellows, I agree with this.

 

[wangers5270]

90k before interest will balloon after 8 years of med school + residency. Pick where you fit the best though, because these are 4 years you'll never get back.

US News reports Residency Directors Assessment, a score out of 5; Harvard/Hopkins tied #1, UCSF tied with several others for #2, Penn #3, and Vandy/Columbia/Cornell tied for #4. So, Vandy is very reputable in the residency application process, and the difference between Vandy & Penn is quite small. That said, geographic bias and ivy league name may be a factor to consider for you, especially if you envision yourself doing an east-coast/northeast residency. If you want to go west, it probably doesn't matter too much either way. Penn seemed a bit cutthroat for me with pre-clerkship grades and stuff, which is why I withdrew pre-decision, but it will train you to become an excellent physician and an academic.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Depends on what you want to do as well. Want to be a clinician? Choose Vandy. Want to go into academic medicine or become a recognized expert in your field? Choose Penn.

Penn will also give you better opportunities and a better brand, setting you up for better residency placement. If you get into a better residency program, you'll be more competitive for better jobs with higher salaries, making it possible to recoup the 90k and more over the next twenty years. Worth some thought.

in april you made a post asking if a post from r/premed was accurate in how it details the steps you need to take to get into a top 10 school. now all of a sudden you're an expert in what residencies and private practice physicians are looking for. interesting.

 

[AnonJohn87]

90k before interest will balloon after 8 years of med school + residency. Pick where you fit the best though, because these are 4 years you'll never get back.

US News reports Residency Directors Assessment, a score out of 5; Harvard/Hopkins tied #1, UCSF tied with several others for #2, Penn #3, and Vandy/Columbia/Cornell tied for #4. So, Vandy is very reputable in the residency application process, and the difference between Vandy & Penn is quite small. That said, geographic bias and ivy league name may be a factor to consider for you, especially if you envision yourself doing an east-coast/northeast residency. If you want to go west, it probably doesn't matter too much either way. Penn seemed a bit cutthroat for me with pre-clerkship grades and stuff, which is why I withdrew pre-decision, but it will train you to become an excellent physician and an academic.

As someone who interviewed at and revisited places with no grading system, pass/fail pre-clinical years, no AOA, etc, I honestly found the students at Penn to be the most down-to-earth/relaxed students of any school despite the one year of "graded" pre-clinical. The grading is honors/pass/fail, and is NOT curved. About 50% of the class gets honors. People make a big deal about this and it's really so insignificant. I'm sure almost everyone who went to Penn Preview would agree with me. Also, it's a system that is very time-tested and clearly works for them since their average board score is 241.

Anyway, choose Penn. 🙂

 

[deleted547339]

Penn. You won't regret going to a substantially more prestigious school. You're also not going to be in much trouble with 160k debt. Most kids who have to pay their own way through med school graduate with far more than that. With 160k + interest, you'll likely be able to repay it all back within 10 years assuming you don't go into primary care.

Is 90k worth giving up the second best medical training in the country?

Says the man who has his status listed as an MD/PhD student. I'm really hoping you're being facetious. Otherwise, the I can only assume you would make this claim because you don't understand the financial implications of taking on 100k as you are getting paid to go to med school.

Vanderbilt is an elite medical school. As is Penn. As previously stated, you are at the point of diminishing returns. If you think having Vandy on your CV is going to be seen as a detriment by any PD in the country, you're crazy. 95% of your app for residency is made up by you, not your school. I went to a "bottom" med school to keep my debt low and I do not regret it. I had every interview I could ever want, including the "top schools," and that was coming from a no-name school. I matched extremely well. All of that was because I studied hard, got stellar grades, AOA and killed my boards. That's the ticket, not simply going to a prestigious school. You think you'll match ortho from Penn with a 200 step 1 over a state school grad with a 260? No. You think you'll match nsg for residency from vandy with a B average over the student from state school who was AOA? No.

Having a top tier med school behind me would have not affected where I matched, but it would have affected my financial outlook for the next 10 years. Racking up an extra 100k for the same degree would be foolish. You're talking about paying $1,400/mo EVERY MONTH FOR A DECADE if you do a 3 year residency. $1,700 a month if you do 6 years. Think about it. That's crazy. That's a mortgage payment. Seriously. That's the mortgage payment on a $400,000 house. That's $1.2 million in retirement savings if you put that $1,700/mo in savings at only 6% interest.

You're making a business decision. Most people don't realize that that's what you're doing, but it is. You're purchasing a degree. You're investing in your future career. Where you get your medical degree will not positively impact your financial future to the tune of $1.2mil, but it can negatively do so.

 

[stevecoral155]

Says the man who has his status listed as an MD/PhD student. I'm really hoping you're being facetious. Otherwise, the I can only assume you would make this claim because you don't understand the financial implications of taking on 100k as you are getting paid to go to med school.

Vanderbilt is an elite medical school. As is Penn. As previously stated, you are at the point of diminishing returns. If you think having Vandy on your CV is going to be seen as a detriment by any CV in the country, you're crazy. 95% of your app for residency is made up by you, not your school. I went to a "bottom" med school to keep my debt low do not regret it. I had every interview I could ever want, including the "top schools," and that was coming from a no-name school. I matched extremely well. All of that was because I studied hard, got stellar grades, AOA and killed my boards. That's the ticket, not simply going to a prestigious school. You think you'll match ortho from Penn with a 200 step 1 over a state school grad with a 260? No. You think you'll match nsg for residency from vandy with a B average over the student from state school who was AOA? No.

Having a top tier med school behind me would have not affected where I matched, but it would have affected my financial outlook for the next 10 years. Racking up an extra 100k for the same degree would be foolish. You're talking about paying $1,400/mo EVERY MONTH FOR A DECADE if you do a 3 year residency. $1,700 a month if you do 6 years. Think about it. That's crazy. That's a mortgage payment. Seriously. That's the mortgage payment on a $400,000 house. That's $1.2 million in retirement savings if you put that $1,700/mo in savings at only 6% interest.

You're making a business decision. Most people don't realize that that's what you're doing, but it is. You're purchasing a degree. You're investing in your future career. Where you get your medical degree will not positively impact your financial future to the tune of $1.2mil, but it can negatively do so.

This is hands down the greatest sort-of-angry-but-unbelievably-rational-while-simultaneously-making-all-other-arguments-totally-invalid post I've read in a long, long time. And yes I like hyphenated words.

 

[deleted547339]

This is hands down the greatest sort-of-angry-but-unbelievably-rational-while-simultaneously-making-all-other-arguments-totally-invalid post I've read in a long, long time. And yes I like hyphenated words.

Thanks? I think?

I like the hyphenations.