WashU vs. UChicago vs. Wake vs. UVA

[Willy38]

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So I've finally heard back from everywhere and would love some SDN wisdom/opinions on how to navigate this fortunate but vexing decision. I'm also interested in academic medicine.

WashU
+People
+I like St. Louis
+Research funding
+Med housing
+Awesome hospitals/diverse patient population
+Most prestigious in medicine? (minor)

-Grades in 2nd year/class rank
-Would require SO to try to relocate for work, but has hub in St. Louis


UChicago
+People
+Loved my interview day
+New hospital
+Top business school/opportunities for interdisciplinary study
+Chicago/Lake Michigan
+Most beautiful campus I've ever seen
+Pizza
+P/F preclinical

-South side Chicago/dangerous
-Would require SO to try to relocate, but has a hub in Chicago



Wake Forest
+People
+Close to SO, so no relocating and having to say no to a great job offer
+College sports
+Very well respected in the area

-May limit matching to regional places
-Didn't like it as much as the others when interviewing
-Not much in winston-salem
-Would have to take leave of absence to do MBA if I decide I want to do that in my 3rd year

UVA
+Great college town in charlottesville
+Solid clinical/research balance
+Best for college sports
+Very well respected in the southeast

-Worst scenario for SO, really tough to relocate near Charlottesville
-May be more limited to regional matching, although probably less than Wake
-UVA may be a little too bro for me

Would choosing any of these over another really affect residency matching or career in academics that significantly? Any opinions are helpful, thanks SDN!

 

[Lawpy]

What's the cheapest option? Sounds like WashU vs UChicago will be the final decision. A good spot to be in.

 

[Willy38]

What's the cheapest option? Sounds like WashU vs UChicago will be the final decision. A good spot to be in.

Yeah I'm really happy to have options. I don't know all the fin aid details yet. Just trying to decide independent of money first, then will factor that in when it becomes available. Its tough bc of my significant other.

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah I'm really happy to have options. I don't know all the fin aid details yet. Just trying to decide independent of money first, then will factor that in when it becomes available. Its tough bc of my significant other.

Wake Forest seems to hold you back a lot more just for the benefit of your SO not having to relocate. I take it you're interested in med business based on your pros list, so UChicago is the best choice

 

[BradyC]

Congratulations! Great options. Assuming cost is relatively the same at all of these schools I would most definitely pick UChicago. Not really close in my opinion.

• Chicago is hands down the best location out of all these schools. I have family and friends that live there and every time I visit (6+ times a year) I ask myself why I do not move there. Every perk you could want from a large city (food, entertainment, art, music, bars, the lake front, etc.) with none of the hassle of NYC, LA, etc.
• If you are actually doing an MBA then UChigcao is the best of the bunch. Have many friends that have done their MBA there and love it. They have some of the best and smartest teachers in the world
• Prestige? Not sure why this is even a consideration for you. Who cares......UC and Wash U are both top ten schools. No one is going to care. I could not tell you a single med school my doctors have ever gone too. It is all word of mouth

 

[Willy38]

Lol at med housing being a positive.

I still remember how dingy that WashU dorm was. Probably the second biggest turn off of the school to me (I still ranked it relatively highly, I just had zero intention of living in that dorm after spending a night there). One of their students bragged on the interview day that he hadn't had to leave the building in over a month...like that was a good thing...

Also "zero lay prestige back home" is one of the worst reasons I can think of to pick a med school.

I'm not saying the housing is nice but I think its really cheap compared to most other options, specifically Chicago. And the lay prestige thing isn't really a big deal at all, just kind of frustrating having to explain to family how I could turn down UVA or Wake to go to one of these midwestern schools. lol

 

[Willy38]

You'll get over it when you're getting all the best residency interview offers.

Is there that much of a gap among these with regard to residency placement? If I wanted to match to say California, would it affect my ability to do that?

Wake Forest seems to hold you back a lot more just for the benefit of your SO not having to relocate. I take it you're interested in med business based on your pros list, so UChicago is the best choice

Yeah I'm not set on doing one, just entertaining the idea. I guess I'm trying to determine if Wake would really "hold me back" at all and if so to what degree.

 

[Willy38]

I was mildly exaggerating to emphasize the point that reputation in medicine >>>> lay reputation

But anecdotally, WashU and UofC applicants (in surgery at least) have had very, very solid CVs and are well-prepared for interviews. They have done very well the past couple of years. I think even among top 20-30 schools, they are two that stand out positively for a great educational focus (not the case for all top tier schools).

that's great news bc I'm interested in surgery ! Thanks for the feedback.

 

[breakintheroof]

Congrats, @Willy38!

I can only cast a biased vote for Chicago.

 

[Willy38]

Congratulations! Great options. Assuming cost is relatively the same at all of these schools I would most definitely pick UChicago. Not really close in my opinion.

• Chicago is hands down the best location out of all these schools. I have family and friends that live there and every time I visit (6+ times a year) I ask myself why I do not move there. Every perk you could want from a large city (food, entertainment, art, music, bars, the lake front, etc.) with none of the hassle of NYC, LA, etc.
• If you are actually doing an MBA then UChigcao is the best of the bunch. Have many friends that have done their MBA there and love it. They have some of the best and smartest teachers in the world
• Prestige? Not sure why this is even a consideration for you. Who cares......UC and Wash U are both top ten schools. No one is going to care. I could not tell you a single med school my doctors have ever gone too. It is all word of mouth

I assume you're talking about chicago in general. As someone who is familiar with the area, what is your opinion about hyde park/ surrounding area? Is it as dangerous as its reputation suggests?

 

[Willy38]

Congrats, @Willy38!

I can only cast a biased vote for Chicago.

Because you are matriculating right? 😉

Edit: If the great breakintheroof decides on Chicago then how could I not follow suit ?
Sidenote: Are you going to revisit ?

 

[areserine]

I assume you're talking about chicago in general. As someone who is familiar with the area, what is your opinion about hyde park/ surrounding area? Is it as dangerous as its reputation suggests?

I didn't interview at any of these schools so I can't help you too much on that front, but I lived in hyde park for a summer. For context, I'm female. I actually really liked it and never felt overtly unsafe. I spent most of my time north of the med school, I think it was around 57th street, I lived near there as well. The area had a lot of nice coffee shops, restaurants, shops etc and I found it to be a very vibrant community. I didn't love walking around at night alone (I rarely went out after the sun went down, but I was being overly cautious), but during the day I never felt unsafe in the main Hyde Park area. It was pretty obvious when you had walked too far, and the bus to midway definitely went through a sketchy area. I expected to feel incredibly unsafe and wary, but I really liked the area overall. Current students can certainly chime in, but I felt like the danger of the area (of Hyde Park specifically, not of the south side overall) is highly exaggerated.

 

[breakintheroof]

Because you are matriculating right? 😉

It's in the final round!

Edit: If the great breakintheroof decides on Chicago then how could I not follow suit ?

Ha ha, easily I would hope. You should take it as a red flag, in fact.

Sidenote: Are you going to revisit ?

I'll be there.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I did not interview at any of these places, but my vote is for Wash U or UChicago. They will definitely help you the most if you're going for surgery or something related that's as competitive or moreso. I'm biased cuz Wash U is my alma mater, obviously, but I've heard nothing but great things from both of these schools from all my classmates who graduated and went straight thru to these med schools.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

My vote goes to Wash U because Cardinals are cool 😀

 

[look595]

What aspect of academic medicine are you interested in? Having come from a background in healthcare consulting and hospital administration, I think getting a solid understanding of business and the way healthcare works could potentially magnify your impact. I'm personally biased towards UChicago for the opportunity to get the MBA at Booth (very distinguished B-school) and be in Chicago. The trade-off in prestige in terms of WashU and UChicago doesn't seem too significant.

 

[Willy38]

What aspect of academic medicine are you interested in? Having come from a background in healthcare consulting and hospital administration, I think getting a solid understanding of business and the way healthcare works could potentially magnify your impact. I'm personally biased towards UChicago for the opportunity to get the MBA at Booth (very distinguished B-school) and be in Chicago. The trade-off in prestige in terms of WashU and UChicago doesn't seem too significant.

I sent you a PM

 

[snowflakes]

UChicago because P/F.

 

[sunflower18]

P/F and MBA opportunities cause UChicago to win out over WashU, in my opinion. But sounds like either Chicago or WashU would be great for you!

 

[ConsultantMD]

My vote is UChicago because of the city itself. I've lived in both Chicago and St. Louis and Chicago wins handily. Also Booth is a great B-school and I know several people who go there and are happy. Sure the south side isn't as nice as Northwestern which is right downtown but there's the L that can take you pretty much anywhere. Good luck choosing!

 

[Willy38]

My vote is UChicago because of the city itself. I've lived in both Chicago and St. Louis and Chicago wins handily. Also Booth is a great B-school and I know several people who go there and are happy. Sure the south side isn't as nice as Northwestern which is right downtown but there's the L that can take you pretty much anywhere. Good luck choosing!

Thanks for the feedback, having lived in both cities, how does hyde park specifically compare to central west end St. Louis?

 

[ConsultantMD]

Thanks for the feedback, having lived in both cities, how does hyde park specifically compare to central west end St. Louis?

So I haven't spent as much time in Hyde Park as CWE so I'm a little biased, but I think CWE is nicer. CWE is a up and coming hang out spot next to some of St. Louis' greatest assets like Forest Park. It's got the bar scene and food scene down handily as well. This all exists in Chicago obviously but I think you have to travel a bit further to get there. You'll probably need a car in both scenarios but theoretically you could get by without one in Chicago with the L. So it would just take more time to get to these places so maybe you would do it less as a result. The people I know at UC are not the going out types really though.

I know this opposes my UC vote but I think overall I would pick UC. How great to be in this predicament!

 

[Willy38]

So I haven't spent as much time in Hyde Park as CWE so I'm a little biased, but I think CWE is nicer. CWE is a up and coming hang out spot next to some of St. Louis' greatest assets like Forest Park. It's got the bar scene and food scene down handily as well. This all exists in Chicago obviously but I think you have to travel a bit further to get there. You'll probably need a car in both scenarios but theoretically you could get by without one in Chicago with the L. So it would just take more time to get to these places so maybe you would do it less as a result. The people I know at UC are not the going out types really though.

I know this opposes my UC vote but I think overall I would pick UC. How great to be in this predicament!

Great feedback. I won't be able to visit WashU bc of conflicts so this helps a ton. Thanks so much.

 

[Willy38]

UChicago because P/F.

But if grades are only in second year and aren't curved, how big of a deal is this? I'll have to be studying all the material for step1 anyways right?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Congratulations on your great choices, especially after a very trying application season!

It looks to me like you really like Chicago. Every med student I met on interviews at true P/F schools said that having that system took so much of the stress off. Chicago and WashU definitely have the best potential for getting you into academic medicine. To be honest, I was a little underwhelmed by UVA's second looks (not sure if you went and/or got the same feel as I did), and it seemed a little hostile towards people who didn't 'fit the mold' so to speak.

If I was in your position, I would wait for financial aid to come back for WashU and Chicago, see which would be the easiest for my SO to relocate to, and then make a decision based on that. You really can't go wrong with either (though I think I would be leaning Chicago).

 

[Psai]

sounds like chicago for you

except pizza is not a plus at chicago. unless you actually wanted a casserole and not a pizza

 

[Kanyeezy23]

Congratulations on your great choices, especially after a very trying application season!
To be honest, I was a little underwhelmed by UVA's second looks (not sure if you went and/or got the same feel as I did), and it seemed a little hostile towards people who didn't 'fit the mold' so to speak.

Curious what made you think this. I wasn't able to make the UVA second look.

 

[Willy38]

Curious what made you think this. I wasn't able to make the UVA second look.

+1

 

[Tots]

So I haven't spent as much time in Hyde Park as CWE so I'm a little biased, but I think CWE is nicer. CWE is a up and coming hang out spot next to some of St. Louis' greatest assets like Forest Park. It's got the bar scene and food scene down handily as well. This all exists in Chicago obviously but I think you have to travel a bit further to get there. You'll probably need a car in both scenarios but theoretically you could get by without one in Chicago with the L. So it would just take more time to get to these places so maybe you would do it less as a result. The people I know at UC are not the going out types really though.

I know this opposes my UC vote but I think overall I would pick UC. How great to be in this predicament!

I don't have a car in Hyde Park. If you want to live outside Hyde Park and commute daily it would probably be worth having a car but you can easily get by in Chicago without one.

sounds like chicago for you

except pizza is not a plus at chicago. unless you actually wanted a casserole and not a pizza

True story. Deep dish pizza is not pizza.

 

[Willy38]

Ok, quick update on financial aid. I have withdrawn from UVA and Wake and have received packages from Chicago and WashU.

At Chicago I will be ~165k in debt, at WashU I will be ~190k in debt. I MUCH prefer the central west end of St. Louis over Hyde Park but obviously like Chicago as a city more. I am probably leaning toward Chicago as a school (loved revisit) but toward WashU (still like the school a lot too) for lifestyle.

Also I should note that the Chicago debt figure is pretty much guaranteed bc of merit aid, while the WashU (need based) debt could go up by 40k or so if my sibling does not go to graduate/med school when he graduates in 2 years. Anything I am overlooking ?

 

[ChemEngMD]

Ok, quick update on financial aid. I have withdrawn from UVA and Wake and have received packages from Chicago and WashU.

At Chicago I will be ~165k in debt, at WashU I will be ~190k in debt. I MUCH prefer the central west end of St. Louis over Hyde Park but obviously like Chicago as a city more. I am probably leaning toward Chicago as a school (loved revisit) but toward WashU (still like the school a lot too) for lifestyle.

Also I should note that the Chicago debt figure is pretty much guaranteed bc of merit aid, while the WashU (need based) debt could go up by 40k or so if my sibling does not go to graduate/med school when he graduates in 2 years. Anything I am overlooking ?

Glad you enjoyed revisit 🙂 - we met but I won't tell you who I am unless you come to Pritzker haha.

 

[Willy38]

Glad you enjoyed revisit 🙂 - we met but I won't tell you who I am unless you come to Pritzker haha.

haha how do you know it was me?

hope you don't mind if I ask a quick question, but do you live in Hyde Park ? If so, have you ever been mugged ? Does the sun ever shine in Chicago?

I feel like I really meshed well with the students here and think they are probably the happiest I've met despite my previously stated opinions of hyde park.

Which is to be weighed more heavily, student body or location?

 

[snowflakes]

Which is to be weighed more heavily, student body or location?

student body is important, but hard to get a sense of. Class personalities can really vary year to year, and the people you see at second look aren't necessarily the one's who'll be your classmates (not everyone at second look will be in your class, and not everyone in your class will come to second look).

 

[Willy38]

student body is important, but hard to get a sense of. Class personalities can really vary year to year, and the people you see at second look aren't necessarily the one's who'll be your classmates (not everyone at second look will be in your class, and not everyone in your class will come to second look).

so location then?

 

[Willy38]

Glad you enjoyed revisit 🙂 - we met but I won't tell you who I am unless you come to Pritzker haha.

Also, do you guys actually hang out in Hyde Park or does everyone go downtown for festivities? Or do festivities only occur at revisit? haha

 

[ChemEngMD]

haha how do you know it was me?

hope you don't mind if I ask a quick question, but do you live in Hyde Park ? If so, have you ever been mugged ? Does the sun ever shine in Chicago?

I feel like I really meshed well with the students here and think they are probably the happiest I've met despite my previously stated opinions of hyde park.

Which is to be weighed more heavily, student body or location?

Yes, I live in Hyde Park - and no, I have never been mugged haha. Hyde Park is actually very safe. I am from a small town in northern New England and have also lived in the Triangle in NC and I don't feel any less safe here. You just have to be smart but I walk alone at night (think 1 or 2am) and have never had any issues and I am a average sized dude (I remember you being definitely more physically intimidating). The UCPD is ubiquitous in our neighborhood and there are also the campus blue lights all over and security guards on corners that have UC buildings on the property. We also have a shuttle system that runs all night long til 4am and can pretty much get you within a block of any place you may live.

Yes the sun shines! You were here on a great weekend! The weather is actually really great a lot of the time. March and April have been nice, but yes there are times where you might get clouds for a week, but it isn't THAT bad.

I would say you choose people over location personally. Pritzker does a great job of picking people and if you clicked with people at revisit you can bet there will be similar personalities (if not the same people) in the class.

Also, do you guys actually hang out in Hyde Park or does everyone go downtown for festivities? Or do festivities only occur at revisit? haha

People definitely hang out in Hyde Park, but when we want to really party we get downtown pretty easily. I personally like the idea of access to where all the bars and stuff are but not living in it. Between the pub on campus, campus wide socials, and the few bars (along with house parties and what not) there are definitely things to do in HP w/o leaving, but every now and then on a Saturday or Friday if we want to go big, we just get an uber and go wherever.

 

[Willy38]

Yes, I live in Hyde Park - and no, I have never been mugged haha. Hyde Park is actually very safe. I am from a small town in northern New England and have also lived in the Triangle in NC and I don't feel any less safe here. You just have to be smart but I walk alone at night (think 1 or 2am) and have never had any issues and I am a average sized dude (I remember you being definitely more physically intimidating). The UCPD is ubiquitous in our neighborhood and there are also the campus blue lights all over and security guards on corners that have UC buildings on the property. We also have a shuttle system that runs all night long til 4am and can pretty much get you within a block of any place you may live.

Yes the sun shines! You were here on a great weekend! The weather is actually really great a lot of the time. March and April have been nice, but yes there are times where you might get clouds for a week, but it isn't THAT bad.

I would say you choose people over location personally. Pritzker does a great job of picking people and if you clicked with people at revisit you can bet there will be similar personalities (if not the same people) in the class.




People definitely hang out in Hyde Park, but when we want to really party we get downtown pretty easily. I personally like the idea of access to where all the bars and stuff are but not living in it. Between the pub on campus, campus wide socials, and the few bars (along with house parties and what not) there are definitely things to do in HP w/o leaving, but every now and then on a Saturday or Friday if we want to go big, we just get an uber and go wherever.

Damn, you got me. ha I was definitely the awkwardly tall guy that looked happy and confused all at the same time.

 

[breakintheroof]

Damn, you got me. ha I was definitely the awkwardly tall guy that looked happy and confused all at the same time.

I think we all had that expression at Revisit! Though not all of us are as tall as you.

So awesome that you are down to these two schools. I didn't visit WashU, but an interesting thing I heard from a Pritzker administrator is that the two accepted applicant pools tend to have a lot of overlap. Every year, many people have to decide which revisit to attend. The Pritzker crowd was amazing, though I'm guessing the crowd in St. Louis was more similar than different.

 

[DielsAlder]

Just wanted to say congratulations OP, those are some awesome options to have! Reputation wise, you cannot go wrong between WashU and UChicago! Unless you are deciding between NYC and San Francisco/LA (West coast bias here haha), I do not think location should be a major deciding factor for your medical education. After all, medical school will be plenty of work. I do think you should consider the overall research/clinical strength in your specialties of interest at each school, that "it" feeling at both institutions (how well you felt you fit in), and the debt coming out of both programs. I am pretty familiar with WashU and UChicago, and I think they have pretty similar quality of education.

 

[WingedOx]

So I haven't spent as much time in Hyde Park as CWE so I'm a little biased, but I think CWE is nicer. CWE is a up and coming hang out spot next to some of St. Louis' greatest assets like Forest Park. It's got the bar scene and food scene down handily as well. This all exists in Chicago obviously but I think you have to travel a bit further to get there. You'll probably need a car in both scenarios but theoretically you could get by without one in Chicago with the L. So it would just take more time to get to these places so maybe you would do it less as a result. The people I know at UC are not the going out types really though.

I know this opposes my UC vote but I think overall I would pick UC. How great to be in this predicament!

I also give a vote for CWE of StL over Hyde Park. Obviously there are a lot more options in Chicago, but nearly all the residents I know at UC live either in HP or South Loop, both of which are really dull compared to the rest of Chicago (I'm too old to know where UofC med students are living nowadays.)

 

[Willy38]

Just wanted to say congratulations OP, those are some awesome options to have! Reputation wise, you cannot go wrong between WashU and UChicago! Unless you are deciding between NYC and San Francisco/LA (West coast bias here haha), I do not think location should be a major deciding factor for your medical education. After all, medical school will be plenty of work. I do think you should consider the overall research/clinical strength in your specialties of interest at each school, that "it" feeling at both institutions (how well you felt you fit in), and the debt coming out of both programs. I am pretty familiar with WashU and UChicago, and I think they have pretty similar quality of education.

So I'm pretty interested in surgical subspecialities although I'm definitely not set on it. That would lean Wash U right?

The other factor is, while I'm a pretty optimistic person and think I would be happy most anywhere, I KNOW I'd be happy at UChicago because of revisit and the awesome people I met there. I haven't met enough people at Wash U to make a fair comparison, though I'm sure they are just as amazing.

Also, the grades thing doesn't really concern me either way and the more I consider the MBA path the more apathetic I become about doing it as a joint degree (If I decide I really want one later, I can always go back to do an executive program).

(I wish california was on the list.... no love for this OOSer unfortunately)

 

[DielsAlder]

So I'm pretty interested in surgical subspecialities although I'm definitely not set on it. That would lean Wash U right?

The other factor is, while I'm a pretty optimistic person and think I would be happy most anywhere, I KNOW I'd be happy at UChicago because of revisit and the awesome people I met there. I haven't met enough people at Wash U to make a fair comparison, though I'm sure they are just as amazing.

Also, the grades thing doesn't really concern me either way and the more I consider the MBA path the more apathetic I become about doing it as a joint degree (If I decide I really want one later, I can always go back to do an executive program).

(I wish california was on the list.... no love for this OOSer unfortunately)

Maybe! Keep in mind, you will receive your most important training as a surgeon during residency/fellowship, not during medical school. Both WashU and UChicago WILL match you into top programs depending on your own hard work as a student, not solely off of the school's reputation itself. Regarding the MBA, I know of plenty of doctors who pursue it later in their career, although it is cool that Chicago is affiliated with a top tier business school. Finally, there is always California for residency haha.

FWIW, I am basing my final decisions for medical schools based only on that "it" feeling and cost. I am probably not as methodological as a lot of people are on SDN lol.

 

[ChemEngMD]

Okay so obv I'm Pritzker biased but man you really cannot undercount the P/F thing. Its amazing and lowers stress so much. Friends of mine who go to top 20 schools w second year grades seemed way more stressed than the second years here (yet we still manage to be 2nd ranked school on STEP1).

 

[Willy38]

Okay so obv I'm Pritzker biased but man you really cannot undercount the P/F thing. Its amazing and lowers stress so much. Friends of mine who go to top 20 schools w second year grades seemed way more stressed than the second years here (yet we still manage to be 2nd ranked school on STEP1).

But what I've heard is that grades don't matter anyway as long as you do well on step1. So at a graded school it shouldn't really affect you if you are studying hard for the boards right? (When I say graded I mean graded where any number can get honors so the class isn't in direct competition with one another)

 

[Amba]

Okay so obv I'm Pritzker biased but man you really cannot undercount the P/F thing. Its amazing and lowers stress so much. Friends of mine who go to top 20 schools w second year grades seemed way more stressed than the second years here (yet we still manage to be 2nd ranked school on STEP1).

But what I've heard is that grades don't matter anyway as long as you do well on step1. So at a graded school it shouldn't really affect you if you are studying hard for the boards right? (When I say graded I mean graded where any number can get honors so the class isn't in direct competition with one another)

I have an obvious WashU bias, but I don't think P/F is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. I mean it's nice having it first year, but it isn't like you get to second year and people stop being helpful and sharing studying materials, etc... As you mentioned, any number of people can get honors in a particular class, and I do think grades can help keep you on top of your studying. In an analysis on last year's class, the # of classes honored was the biggest predictor of Step 1 score, ahead of MCAT, undergrad GPA, # of Firecracker cards, and all other variables.

I can't speak on Hyde Park since I haven't lived there (though I did interview at Pritzker). I do think location is something that can be underappreciated when choosing a school. The Central West End is awesome to live in. You can walk two blocks and pass 10-15 different restaurants and bars, a library, coffeeshops, etc. Forest Park is a block away from the hospital and CWE. We'll have a Whole Foods in the middle of the Central West End by this fall. Sure, we don't have everything that a city like Chicago offers, but how often are Pritzker students actually in the city? Even if it is once a weekend, the day-to-day convenience of living in the CWE is still a big plus for WashU.

All of this being said, both are great schools and I would have loved attending either. You really can't go wrong with your choice.

 

[ChemEngMD]

But what I've heard is that grades don't matter anyway as long as you do well on step1. So at a graded school it shouldn't really affect you if you are studying hard for the boards right? (When I say graded I mean graded where any number can get honors so the class isn't in direct competition with one another)

It affects AOA - which residencies DO care about (especially since you were talking surgical sub-specialties as a desired direction). We only do fourth year AOA at Pritzker - I know WashU does 3rd and 4th year AOA. If you think the guns won't come out for AOA you're not living in reality IMO.

I ended up choosing Pritzker very much for the P/F system and, this year at conference, when I bumped into upperclassmen from other med schools that I chose not to attend - they asked me why I did not pick their school or other schools. I mentioned the non-P/F second year - not a single one faulted me. Many agreed it was much more cut throat and stressful (not saying a particular school but rather a general sentiment I got from many people at graded 2nd year programs - I know people at a half a dozen such schools).

IMO Pritzker has one of the chillest curriculums in the country (only Yale's comes to mind as being more chill), but I'll admit that it isn't in an area with as much to do as the CWE of SL. I have a close friend going into 4th year at WashU who does seem to like the city a lot and when I visited for my interview last year it def seemed like a cool place. Is it worth ~25k more debt for restaurants and bars and a school environment you haven't had the opportunity to fully see? I guess that's up to @Willy38

 

[Willy38]

I have an obvious WashU bias, but I don't think P/F is as big of a deal as people make it out to be. I mean it's nice having it first year, but it isn't like you get to second year and people stop being helpful and sharing studying materials, etc... As you mentioned, any number of people can get honors in a particular class, and I do think grades can help keep you on top of your studying. In an analysis on last year's class, the # of classes honored was the biggest predictor of Step 1 score, ahead of MCAT, undergrad GPA, # of Firecracker cards, and all other variables.

I can't speak on Hyde Park since I haven't lived there (though I did interview at Pritzker). I do think location is something that can be underappreciated when choosing a school. The Central West End is awesome to live in. You can walk two blocks and pass 10-15 different restaurants and bars, a library, coffeeshops, etc. Forest Park is a block away from the hospital and CWE. We'll have a Whole Foods in the middle of the Central West End by this fall. Sure, we don't have everything that a city like Chicago offers, but how often are Pritzker students actually in the city? Even if it is once a weekend, the day-to-day convenience of living in the CWE is still a big plus for WashU.

All of this being said, both are great schools and I would have loved attending either. You really can't go wrong with your choice.

It affects AOA - which residencies DO care about (especially since you were talking surgical sub-specialties as a desired direction). We only do fourth year AOA at Pritzker - I know WashU does 3rd and 4th year AOA. If you think the guns won't come out for AOA you're not living in reality IMO.

I ended up choosing Pritzker very much for the P/F system and, this year at conference, when I bumped into upperclassmen from other med schools that I chose not to attend - they asked me why I did not pick their school or other schools. I mentioned the non-P/F second year - not a single one faulted me. Many agreed it was much more cut throat and stressful (not saying a particular school but rather a general sentiment I got from many people at graded 2nd year programs - I know people at a half a dozen such schools).

IMO Pritzker has one of the chillest curriculums in the country (only Yale's comes to mind as being more chill), but I'll admit that it isn't in an area with as much to do as the CWE of SL. I have a close friend going into 4th year at WashU who does seem to like the city a lot and when I visited for my interview last year it def seemed like a cool place. Is it worth ~25k more debt for restaurants and bars and a school environment you haven't had the opportunity to fully see? I guess that's up to @Willy38

These comments are really helpful. Thanks guys.

 

[Amba]

It affects AOA - which residencies DO care about (especially since you were talking surgical sub-specialties as a desired direction). We only do fourth year AOA at Pritzker - I know WashU does 3rd and 4th year AOA. If you think the guns won't come out for AOA you're not living in reality IMO.

No, we only have 4th year AOA (source). Sure, AOA is a nice addition to an application coming from most schools, but no PD is going to fault someone graduating from WashU with good/great board scores for not having AOA, and I think that shows in our match lists.

 

[ChemEngMD]

No, we only have 4th year AOA (source). Sure, AOA is a nice addition to an application coming from most schools, but no PD is going to fault someone graduating from WashU with good/great board scores for not having AOA, and I think that shows in our match lists.

Ahh my bad - but those second year grades still factor into 4th year AOA no? And yes, you're probably right in most cases but a lot of residencies do brag about the amount of AOA students they have in an entering residency class.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

only a week left to decide. I'll be interested to see where you choose man. either way, you can't go wrong and both will lead you to the promise land. best wishes