Rejected today via mail. Good luck to everyone in the coming year!
2015-2016 University of Kansas Application Thread
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Good luck to everyone as the letters roll in!
Alternates is such a weird spot to be in. My year (current M2) took about 40 people off the alternates (last person in I think was 42), but the year before me they only took 5 or 6. I'm not sure what the numbers were for last year, but this whole process is a crapshoot sometimes
Alternates is such a weird spot to be in. My year (current M2) took about 40 people off the alternates (last person in I think was 42), but the year before me they only took 5 or 6. I'm not sure what the numbers were for last year, but this whole process is a crapshoot sometimes
Do you think all the letters that are received today and on are going to be rejections?
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It just looks like all the wait list/acceptances came Saturday..
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Alternate list here! I wish I knew more about the movement. "5-36 acceptance in the past five years" is a really broad range. *crosses fingers*
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From my understanding the average is 10ish. Last year I believe they made it a bit past 20, but a few years before they made it to like 5. Another thing to consider is they did overfill by quite a bit this year. 230 total acceptances when I believe the target class size is 200. But ANOTHER another thing to consider is this is the last year of the present curriculum so maybe more will opt out because they don't like the "old" way.
Opened my decision letter today and I am accepted!!!! Can't wait to meet everyone and work hard towards becoming a physician. It's been a long road for me, as I'm sure it has for others! I took the mcat 4 times, applied twice, did EDP this round (wasn't accepted) and then finally accepted regular decision. You can't give up in this game!!! Good luck to everyone! God bless!
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Do you by any chance know how much acceptances they sent out in the previous cycle?
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Who said that they were handing out 230 acceptances? Did sandy say that herself? And also is that different than previous years?
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I looked at the old posts and last year they accepted 230 as well and brought in over twenty off the waitlist from what it sounds like.
I remember the curriculum change being brought up on my interview, but don't remember how it is changing. Do you? I know that it doesn't apply for the 2020 class, but am still curious.
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This was stated by Dean McCurdy and is also written on the letters sent to everyone placed on hold.
If this is the case that's great, although I was told by previous med students in the past they overfilled by ~20 and there were years where only 5 or so were accepted off the waitlist. I guess I was just trying to reiterate what LotsaLove already said - waitlist is a crapshoot.
The current curriculum is loosely 2 years of classroom followed by 2 years of clinical. I believe the new curriculum aims to integrate the two so that students are exposed more to clinical skills earlier on. This includes usage of the new simulation lab we got to see if you interviewed in KC. In addition I think the way exams are administered is changing but I'm not confident enough to say how. A lot of the med school staff are extremely excited about these changes so I guess those of us that haven't/won't get in this year have that to look forward to
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I too was accepted!! I found out last Saturday. For those asking about the curriculum, I found this on KUs website, which leads me to believe that we will in fact be the first group of students to go through the new curriculum, just as the "pilot" testers. So maybe not everything.
http://www.kumc.edu/school-of-medicine/education/ace-curriculum/timeline.html
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I graduated in 2014 so I can provide some insight although I'm not as familiar with the "new curriculum." From what ppl are saying above, it doesn't sound like a drastic difference from the old one based on how ppl actually used the "old curriculum."
You'll always have the first two years as the preclinical basic science curriculum and last two years as clinicals. Below is based on how my curriculum was.
M1+M2 - Lecture 9am-12noon M-F with all lectures being podcasted. Early on in M1, most ppl went to lecture but there was a rapid drop off in attendance as more and more ppl just podcasted from home. By the end of M1, there were less than 50 ppl attending lecture. Throughout M2, there were about 30 ppl consistently from what I heard. Personally, I stopped going early in M1. Podcasting was much more time efficient because you could finish the lectures in 2 hours, speed up the slow parts, pause when needed so you wouldn't fall behind, and rewind to rewatch parts that you didn't fully understand before moving onto the next part of the lecture. Then in the afternoons generally 1-2x/week, there was small group/PBL/histo lab/anatomy lab/clinical skills (sim lab) depending on the module. For the new curriculum, it seems like the administration got the hint about most ppl preferring podcasting so they just got rid of lectures. I imagine they'll just reuse a lot of old recorded lectures from prior years and then redoing specific lectures that need updates. Then they'll probably increase the amount of small group/PBL sessions per week. Most ppl I knew didn't like these sessions and thought they were a waste of time. While they were helpful at times, they often seemed like a waste and time mainly filled with the few in the class who loved to hear themselves ramble on about crap. Most ppl wanted to get in+out fast so they could get back to studying and enjoy the rest of their day. The new sim lab in KC sounds intriguing though. Hopefully they'll make good use with that. They're also building a new health professions building in KC which will mainly house med students but also will be used by nursing, therapy, etc. students for at least labs. I saw it recently but construction still has a ways to go. I think they told us back in 2014 that their target open date was Fall 2017 but no idea if they're on schedule.
M3+M4 - no changes as far as I know.
In terms of class size, it traditionally was 175 for the longest time. Everyone did the 1st 2 years in KC, then about 50 went to Wichita for clinicals and like <10 to Salina for clinicals and rest stayed in KC. My class was the last year before they expanded to do all 4 years in Wichita or Salina. Last I heard as of last year, there are still the 175 in KC (and 50 sent to Wichita for last 2 years), about 50 at Wichita campus all 4 years, and 8 at Salina campus all 4 years. So that's about 235 total in class size and I imagine they're only going to expand it, not decrease it but I think they're staying stable for now.
IMO, the KC campus was definitely the place to be for the first 2 years. It was the only place you had the option to actually attend the live lectures. The other campuses had the option of sitting in a lecture hall and being connected remotely live through a webcam they had on a giant screen. The other campuses could interact with the KC campus, so you could technically ask questions from Wichita live through the screen/audio. Seemed like a weird setup to me but best access they could do. Now that it sounds like they're getting rid of all live lectures, then it really doesn't matter where you are for those lectures. I would still say KC is better though because you'll have the new med school building with the new sim lab and access to all the specialty departments so you can actively do research during your preclinical years. The other 2 campuses have barely any research opportunities. KU in general isn't a big research institution compared to other med schools and it's not that easy to find great research as med students there, but it's certainly better in KC than the other campuses. Also, the anatomy lab, which you will spend a lot of time in during Spring M1 and Fall M2, is without question the best in KC. The KC anatomy teachers are amazing. I heard the one in Wichita is actually at Newman, and overall the lab is actually significantly easier than KC but also the teaching is worse and you'll learn less. The KC anatomy lab is definitely challenging and the tests are a significant part of your grade, so in Wichita I imagine you have a better chance of keeping a high GPA. The basic science tests are the same at all campuses since they're electronic, but the anatomy tests will be done at each campus since they're done in the labs. Don't know about Salina's anatomy.
As for the clinical years, you can make arguments for each campus. If you want to specialize, you're better off in KC which has the only academic hospital and departments and residencies in every specialty. You're definitely at a disadvantage if you don't readily have access to a department/residency program in your specialty you're applying to. Wichita has residencies in every primary care specialty, general surgery, ortho and anesthesia. If you want to do primary care, then I think Wichita is the better campus. The primary care and general surgery residencies are overall definitely better in Wichita. Ppl really like those programs a lot down there and nationally I know the Via Christi family medicine program is considered like top 3. The Wesley program is also great but different patient population - more sick pts with real pathology and less social work issues. Ppl overall like the internal med program better there and the OB GYN program has incredible numbers, like >90th percentile nationally. For General Surgery, KU students love the Wichita program and want to stay there but no one wants to stay at the KC one. I'm not in general surgery but rotating through the dept and hearing from other residents, the KC one is a bit malignant and fills with a lot of DO students. Both ortho programs I think are good, KC is more academic but less friendly and Wichita is more private practice based and friendly. Don't know much about anesthesia at either place. Finally, Salina I don't know much about. It's mainly a rural area focus.
Good luck! One tip I can give for prepping for applying to residency is this - residency programs also want you to be well-rounded just like when you apply to med school. Don't believe any of this P=MD nonsense (as in you just need to pass your classes and nothing else matters because you'll get your MD). You need to do as well as possible in your classes because then you can have a shot at AOA, the med school national honor society. It's a huge deal if you can get it on your resume. For KU, you need to be in the top 15% of your class based on GPA for Junior AOA and then about half actually get voted in by faculty. For Senior AOA, you need to only be in the top 25% and then about half get voted in by faculty. Even if you academically are eligible, there's like a 50% chance you still won't get it because the faculty vote you in. The way you get voted in by faculty is by being active in the med school, such as the student organizations, Jaydoc volunteering, etc because basically they need to know who you are. Earlier when I said you need to be well-rounded, it is a different type of well-rounded than when you applied to med school. In terms of extra-curriculars for residency, volunteering matters much less and research matters much more (interestingly when you apply to KU for med school, consistent and dedication to volunteering is basically an unspoken requirement while being active in research is a plus but by no means a requirement - if you got rejected and don't have major weaknesses other than no volunteering, then that was your problem - KU will accept ppl with lots of volunteering and lower academics than someone who has the opposite, especially if interested in primary care). For research, you actually need to have something to show for it like publications, posters, abstracts, presentations, etc. Applying to med school, they just like to see some involvement in research but for residency they only care about results. And, finally, of course you need to do well on boards (Step 1 much more important than Step 2) as much as possible. Step 1 is the hardest one since it has all the gritty minutae from M1-M2 and then it gets progressively easier with Step 2 and Step 3 (in fact Step 3 is completely meaningless and most don't even study because you take it during residency). If you do well on Step 1, you want to make sure you do as well on Step 2 or else it'll make you look bad. Step 2 requires much less studying and overall easier. Ppl with lower Step 1 scores can always try to make up for it on Step 2, but it never erases your Step 1 score. Residencies definitely put more emphasis Step 1 since everyone knows it's the hardest test, but that being said, it honestly in no way reflects how good of a doctor you'll be. You truly learn how to be a doctor in residency, not med school. Med school prepares you well for primary care fields but horribly for specialties. KU especially has a bigger primary care focus than many med schools since the state of KS is the most need for PCPs. Back to Step 1, though, many competitive specialties screen applicants based on board cutoffs since they get so many applications. However, even with high boards, you can't neglect everything else. Like I said, your class ranking, AOA, recommendations (you get good ones by being active in the department with research/volunteering and doing well on that specific rotation), research, student organizations, etc, matter a lot. If you don't have the board scores you want for the competitive fields, don't give up. Lots of research can actually trump anything. You can always take a year off after 3rd year to do a research year - which is much better than if you apply anyway with crappy board scores and little research because reapplying after failing the match looks horrible and you will most likely fail the match if you apply to a competitive field like that. Residencies do pre-rank you before you even interview, so even at the interview stage you're not all equal so always remember that. Some ppl will incorrectly tell you otherwise. The interview can help or hurt your ranking after that. It seems most ppl interview fairly well, and it mainly serves to weed out the weirdos and the few exceptionally outgoing applicants stick out in good way. Anyways, this was quite the ramble. Hopefully it helps you in some way. Again, good luck!
You'll always have the first two years as the preclinical basic science curriculum and last two years as clinicals. Below is based on how my curriculum was.
M1+M2 - Lecture 9am-12noon M-F with all lectures being podcasted. Early on in M1, most ppl went to lecture but there was a rapid drop off in attendance as more and more ppl just podcasted from home. By the end of M1, there were less than 50 ppl attending lecture. Throughout M2, there were about 30 ppl consistently from what I heard. Personally, I stopped going early in M1. Podcasting was much more time efficient because you could finish the lectures in 2 hours, speed up the slow parts, pause when needed so you wouldn't fall behind, and rewind to rewatch parts that you didn't fully understand before moving onto the next part of the lecture. Then in the afternoons generally 1-2x/week, there was small group/PBL/histo lab/anatomy lab/clinical skills (sim lab) depending on the module. For the new curriculum, it seems like the administration got the hint about most ppl preferring podcasting so they just got rid of lectures. I imagine they'll just reuse a lot of old recorded lectures from prior years and then redoing specific lectures that need updates. Then they'll probably increase the amount of small group/PBL sessions per week. Most ppl I knew didn't like these sessions and thought they were a waste of time. While they were helpful at times, they often seemed like a waste and time mainly filled with the few in the class who loved to hear themselves ramble on about crap. Most ppl wanted to get in+out fast so they could get back to studying and enjoy the rest of their day. The new sim lab in KC sounds intriguing though. Hopefully they'll make good use with that. They're also building a new health professions building in KC which will mainly house med students but also will be used by nursing, therapy, etc. students for at least labs. I saw it recently but construction still has a ways to go. I think they told us back in 2014 that their target open date was Fall 2017 but no idea if they're on schedule.
M3+M4 - no changes as far as I know.
In terms of class size, it traditionally was 175 for the longest time. Everyone did the 1st 2 years in KC, then about 50 went to Wichita for clinicals and like <10 to Salina for clinicals and rest stayed in KC. My class was the last year before they expanded to do all 4 years in Wichita or Salina. Last I heard as of last year, there are still the 175 in KC (and 50 sent to Wichita for last 2 years), about 50 at Wichita campus all 4 years, and 8 at Salina campus all 4 years. So that's about 235 total in class size and I imagine they're only going to expand it, not decrease it but I think they're staying stable for now.
IMO, the KC campus was definitely the place to be for the first 2 years. It was the only place you had the option to actually attend the live lectures. The other campuses had the option of sitting in a lecture hall and being connected remotely live through a webcam they had on a giant screen. The other campuses could interact with the KC campus, so you could technically ask questions from Wichita live through the screen/audio. Seemed like a weird setup to me but best access they could do. Now that it sounds like they're getting rid of all live lectures, then it really doesn't matter where you are for those lectures. I would still say KC is better though because you'll have the new med school building with the new sim lab and access to all the specialty departments so you can actively do research during your preclinical years. The other 2 campuses have barely any research opportunities. KU in general isn't a big research institution compared to other med schools and it's not that easy to find great research as med students there, but it's certainly better in KC than the other campuses. Also, the anatomy lab, which you will spend a lot of time in during Spring M1 and Fall M2, is without question the best in KC. The KC anatomy teachers are amazing. I heard the one in Wichita is actually at Newman, and overall the lab is actually significantly easier than KC but also the teaching is worse and you'll learn less. The KC anatomy lab is definitely challenging and the tests are a significant part of your grade, so in Wichita I imagine you have a better chance of keeping a high GPA. The basic science tests are the same at all campuses since they're electronic, but the anatomy tests will be done at each campus since they're done in the labs. Don't know about Salina's anatomy.
As for the clinical years, you can make arguments for each campus. If you want to specialize, you're better off in KC which has the only academic hospital and departments and residencies in every specialty. You're definitely at a disadvantage if you don't readily have access to a department/residency program in your specialty you're applying to. Wichita has residencies in every primary care specialty, general surgery, ortho and anesthesia. If you want to do primary care, then I think Wichita is the better campus. The primary care and general surgery residencies are overall definitely better in Wichita. Ppl really like those programs a lot down there and nationally I know the Via Christi family medicine program is considered like top 3. The Wesley program is also great but different patient population - more sick pts with real pathology and less social work issues. Ppl overall like the internal med program better there and the OB GYN program has incredible numbers, like >90th percentile nationally. For General Surgery, KU students love the Wichita program and want to stay there but no one wants to stay at the KC one. I'm not in general surgery but rotating through the dept and hearing from other residents, the KC one is a bit malignant and fills with a lot of DO students. Both ortho programs I think are good, KC is more academic but less friendly and Wichita is more private practice based and friendly. Don't know much about anesthesia at either place. Finally, Salina I don't know much about. It's mainly a rural area focus.
Good luck! One tip I can give for prepping for applying to residency is this - residency programs also want you to be well-rounded just like when you apply to med school. Don't believe any of this P=MD nonsense (as in you just need to pass your classes and nothing else matters because you'll get your MD). You need to do as well as possible in your classes because then you can have a shot at AOA, the med school national honor society. It's a huge deal if you can get it on your resume. For KU, you need to be in the top 15% of your class based on GPA for Junior AOA and then about half actually get voted in by faculty. For Senior AOA, you need to only be in the top 25% and then about half get voted in by faculty. Even if you academically are eligible, there's like a 50% chance you still won't get it because the faculty vote you in. The way you get voted in by faculty is by being active in the med school, such as the student organizations, Jaydoc volunteering, etc because basically they need to know who you are. Earlier when I said you need to be well-rounded, it is a different type of well-rounded than when you applied to med school. In terms of extra-curriculars for residency, volunteering matters much less and research matters much more (interestingly when you apply to KU for med school, consistent and dedication to volunteering is basically an unspoken requirement while being active in research is a plus but by no means a requirement - if you got rejected and don't have major weaknesses other than no volunteering, then that was your problem - KU will accept ppl with lots of volunteering and lower academics than someone who has the opposite, especially if interested in primary care). For research, you actually need to have something to show for it like publications, posters, abstracts, presentations, etc. Applying to med school, they just like to see some involvement in research but for residency they only care about results. And, finally, of course you need to do well on boards (Step 1 much more important than Step 2) as much as possible. Step 1 is the hardest one since it has all the gritty minutae from M1-M2 and then it gets progressively easier with Step 2 and Step 3 (in fact Step 3 is completely meaningless and most don't even study because you take it during residency). If you do well on Step 1, you want to make sure you do as well on Step 2 or else it'll make you look bad. Step 2 requires much less studying and overall easier. Ppl with lower Step 1 scores can always try to make up for it on Step 2, but it never erases your Step 1 score. Residencies definitely put more emphasis Step 1 since everyone knows it's the hardest test, but that being said, it honestly in no way reflects how good of a doctor you'll be. You truly learn how to be a doctor in residency, not med school. Med school prepares you well for primary care fields but horribly for specialties. KU especially has a bigger primary care focus than many med schools since the state of KS is the most need for PCPs. Back to Step 1, though, many competitive specialties screen applicants based on board cutoffs since they get so many applications. However, even with high boards, you can't neglect everything else. Like I said, your class ranking, AOA, recommendations (you get good ones by being active in the department with research/volunteering and doing well on that specific rotation), research, student organizations, etc, matter a lot. If you don't have the board scores you want for the competitive fields, don't give up. Lots of research can actually trump anything. You can always take a year off after 3rd year to do a research year - which is much better than if you apply anyway with crappy board scores and little research because reapplying after failing the match looks horrible and you will most likely fail the match if you apply to a competitive field like that. Residencies do pre-rank you before you even interview, so even at the interview stage you're not all equal so always remember that. Some ppl will incorrectly tell you otherwise. The interview can help or hurt your ranking after that. It seems most ppl interview fairly well, and it mainly serves to weed out the weirdos and the few exceptionally outgoing applicants stick out in good way. Anyways, this was quite the ramble. Hopefully it helps you in some way. Again, good luck!
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Hi guys, I am also on the alternate list. Congrats to everyone that's been accepted! I was just wondering - are we allowed to send in any letters of update or letters of intent to KUMC? Do they accept those?
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I don't think there's much point in sending one at this point. Our alternate numbers are already set in stone and no medical school's going to bump you up because that would require them bumping someone else down. You're more than free to call Blair and/or Jason on the number in the letter for confirmation though.
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Oh okay, I understand. Do you know how many people are on the alternate list?
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I recall Sandy saying the alternate list is 50 students long. Solely based off the fact that this year's facebook group has fewer than 180 members right now, we all still have a chance of getting in haha. Of course everyone still has over a month to make their decisions though.
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I'm having a hard time finding the Facebook group. Can someone post a link?
We don't get our financial aid information for several more weeks.
It depends on your situation. Are you doing KMSL or military? Those are pretty much the main ways students receive stipends. ~2k a month give or take. Everybody else typically pays for their living expenses via loans. KU Med scholarships aren't going to pay for much.
Sorry, I guess I should've clarified. I meant through loans. Is there a set amount in your loan information they designate for living expenses or do you decide how much of your loan money you get to spend on what? I was fortunate enough that I didn't have to take out loans for undergrad so the financial aid process is new for me.
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Whichever one you can talk more passionately about. KU loves volunteer work (shows compassion) but they also really value research experience. What it comes down to is what will make you stand out more in your interview, and that is whatever you can talk about with passion and make it clear that the experience impacted you and was valuable. Side note - if you work in a nursing home they may ask you about if you're interested in geriatrics so you'll need to be prepared to answer that with yes or something other than no (i.e. thats not where I see myself but here is why the experience was useful to my future...)
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Do what's genuine to you. They can smell lack of authenticity from a mile away.
That being said, as a laboratory worker myself, being a CNA will be much more useful to you.
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I'm currently on the "campus pending" list and trying to gauge the amount of movement off the waitlist.
Would other campus pending students mind to comment when they're offered a KC 4-year spot, and what number they were?
Thank you!
Would other campus pending students mind to comment when they're offered a KC 4-year spot, and what number they were?
Thank you!
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I'm number 12. The wait is actually killer
Can any current students comment on School of Medicine Scholarships? (the one where you fill out the generalized application) Any estimates on about how much people get awarded? I heard that most students get awarded about the same amount but this could be completely wrong.
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They don't award the scholarships until May... I was hoping do direct those questions at M1's, M2's, etc!
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***Great Pre-Med Job Opportunity to Pass Along***
I graduated with my Bachelor's degree in May 2015, with the intent to apply to medical school following graduation, but didn't know what I was going to do during my "gap" year(s). While going through the medical school application process, I was given the opportunity to do Cardiovascular Research for Saint Luke's Mid America Heart Institute, mainly concerning their heart transplant recipients (mostly retrospective studies). We are currently looking for someone to replace me when I begin school this summer. For any graduates who will be applying to medical school, this job is just about the perfect opportunity to increase medical knowledge, get some exposure to patient care and surgery, and network with doctors in the Kansas City area... all while potentially producing several abstracts/publications in medical journals before starting medical school. This position has traditionally been a one-year job, as both of us who have worked it were accepted to medical school while we were in the position. I've attached a more formal letter with a description of the position. Feel free to direct any specific questions my way, at [email protected].
I graduated with my Bachelor's degree in May 2015, with the intent to apply to medical school following graduation, but didn't know what I was going to do during my "gap" year(s). While going through the medical school application process, I was given the opportunity to do Cardiovascular Research for Saint Luke's Mid America Heart Institute, mainly concerning their heart transplant recipients (mostly retrospective studies). We are currently looking for someone to replace me when I begin school this summer. For any graduates who will be applying to medical school, this job is just about the perfect opportunity to increase medical knowledge, get some exposure to patient care and surgery, and network with doctors in the Kansas City area... all while potentially producing several abstracts/publications in medical journals before starting medical school. This position has traditionally been a one-year job, as both of us who have worked it were accepted to medical school while we were in the position. I've attached a more formal letter with a description of the position. Feel free to direct any specific questions my way, at [email protected].
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The deadline for accepted students to commit was April 30th so you shouldn't have expected them to work on alternates the immediate day after. I followed up with Sandy back in March and she said they start contacting alternates around mid-May
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Alternate list is activated and they are at position 10 right now
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Fingers crossed!
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Just went to eleven about ten minutes ago. I'm checking everything constantly now...
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