Jul 3, 2018
65
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Pre-Medical
With a couple of special circumstance exceptions, there has been no WL movement at UCI. They told me that there has been very little movement in their class, so they have not begun reviewing the WL. :(
 
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May 2, 2019
18
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MD/PhD Student
What if, hear me out, right before orientations start there's an avalanche of movement because people get cold feet about going to their particular schools and drop out and so then there's a scramble of movement everywhere. Its possible, right? right? :1cry:

Unreasonable hopes aside, I wonder how Adcoms are going to interpret this year to better plan for next cycle. Considering most schools underaccepted and still had less-to-normal waitlist movement, there's no real reason for them to act differently in upcoming cycles, i.e. return to the previous amount of initial acceptances, right?
Will future cycles just continue to be similar to this? (Especially if AAMC continues to not regulate PTE and CTE. That just means every cycle, schools have no idea who will show up).
 

Putfish3

2+ Year Member
Nov 13, 2016
2
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Pre-Medical
Does anyone know of any waitlist movement at Loma Linda? There’s been very few acceptances posted, and they’re known to have late waitlist movement.
 
Mar 27, 2019
128
469
What if, hear me out, right before orientations start there's an avalanche of movement because people get cold feet about going to their particular schools and drop out and so then there's a scramble of movement everywhere. Its possible, right? right? :1cry:

Unreasonable hopes aside, I wonder how Adcoms are going to interpret this year to better plan for next cycle. Considering most schools underaccepted and still had less-to-normal waitlist movement, there's no real reason for them to act differently in upcoming cycles, i.e. return to the previous amount of initial acceptances, right?
Will future cycles just continue to be similar to this? (Especially if AAMC continues to not regulate PTE and CTE. That just means every cycle, schools have no idea who will show up).
I think it is true that many schools showed higher yield this year. Maybe speed up the process and play with CTE deadlines.
 
Jun 12, 2019
12
12
Status
Pre-Medical
If my school's CTE deadline is on July 18, would it be wise to send in another letter of intent even though I have nothing else to add in terms of updates?
 
Mar 14, 2019
126
116
Status
Pre-Medical
I think it is true that many schools showed higher yield this year. Maybe speed up the process and play with CTE deadlines.
Totally, agree, as I have been advocating for moving up to a common CTE (or single school PTE deadline) in the beginning of May, while allowing total freedom to accept WL offers after that date, to eliminate the inequity of prohibiting people choosing an early CTE deadline school from participating in subsequent WL movement.

@Charmnr's observation is exactly right, but for slightly different reasons. AAMC's refusal to regulate PTE and CTE is not stopping the schools from doing so. Most are, and that's why things are actually pretty orderly, and the last minute chaos s/he's hoping for doesn't seem to be materializing. It's the lack of a MAR that forced schools to, not under accept, since seats are not unfilled, but not over accept as they have in the past. They used to over accept because the MAR gave them an accurate view into what their yield would be, so they were confident in over accepting and then allowing the class to sort itself out through WL movement, as people with multiple acceptances withdrew.

Without the MAR, schools cannot accurately predict yield, so they can't risk really over accepting, and being forced to bribe people to defer in order to get the class size down to capacity. This absence of over accepting (which really is very distinct from under accepting), then creates the totally predicable result of less WL movement, since less people are holding fewer multiple acceptances. This won't change, and isn't necessarily terrible (yes, it eliminates some student choice as it limits the ability of those lucky enough to have multiple acceptances to choose among them, but it serves the schools' ultimate objective of having a relatively orderly process that efficiently fills a class with the most qualified and attractive candidates), as long as everyone's expectations are calibrated accordingly.

Again, AMCAS, please, please, please address the inherent unfairness of allowing some candidates to participate in later WL movement but not others, by reaching a consensus on a common date to reduce acceptances held to one, and allow unfettered freedom for all to accept WL offers right up until classes begin. Last minute chaos should be avoided by encouraging schools to accelerate their WL movement to May (assuming a common date is set at the beginning of May). As has been pointed out by others, all schools as well as AMCAS, should be embarrassed that admission cycles overlap, and they can't figure out how to wrap up all movement (other than that created by last minute withdrawals) by June 1st of each year, because the process is just so darn complicated that 12 months simply isn't enough time to select a class! :)

Also, please consider allowing all schools to identify which of their accepted candidates are holding multiple acceptances after a certain date, in violation of their rules, so that schools can take action if they so desire in order to open up WL spots sooner rather than later. This would eliminate the ability of schools that choose not to participate in PTE/CTE from obstructing the ability of schools who choose to employ the protocol from enforcing their rules. As long as the other schools are not identified, AMCAS should avoid any accusation or appearance that it is sharing information that it has resolved not to share.
 
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Mar 14, 2019
126
116
Status
Pre-Medical
The worst part about these new rules is that I, and I’m sure I’m not the only one, would’ve had a much better shot of getting in had I been able to apply last cycle, and just knowing that I would be starting in the fall if the rules hadn’t changed.
Why do you think this is the case? The number of seats hasn't changed (other than the few created by the brand new schools, so if anything, slightly more people will be MS1s in 2019 as compared to 2018), so the number of people ultimately receiving acceptances hasn't changed. The change this year really just impacted the number of people with multiple acceptances, and the amount of WL movement.

There is still going to be a body in every seat, so what changed from last year for you? The lack of visibility this year ironically resulted in more people being on WLs this year, with less movement, but in the end, nothing indicates that anyone who would have been successful last year was not successful this year. The only take away so far is that those with acceptances had less choices than last year. It's not like less people are entering medical school this year, so what evidence is there that anyone who was not successful this year would have been last year? How did the seat that you would have occupied last year disappear this year?

Please don't beat yourself up over application timing; there is nothing in how this is playing out that indicates that it would have made a difference. Just try to get some constructive feedback and have a better outcome next time!
 

DrOptimusPrime

SDN Bronze Donor
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5+ Year Member
Dec 2, 2013
123
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I received a call for one of the schools I was waitlisted at today and plan to accept. I had already submit my AMCAS application for next year, but it wasn't reviewed. Do I withdraw it? Does it make any difference? I know they won't refund me but should I still do something?
Congratulations!!

I would just withdraw it so you’re inbox doesn’t get full of secondaries or contact from the schools you applied to. That would also be mindful of the schools so they don’t have to review your app if you have no intention of actually applying anymore.
 
Dec 2, 2018
78
79
Why do you think this is the case? The number of seats hasn't changed (other than the few created by the brand new schools, so if anything, slightly more people will be MS1s in 2019 as compared to 2018), so the number of people ultimately receiving acceptances hasn't changed. The change this year really just impacted the number of people with multiple acceptances, and the amount of WL movement.

There is still going to be a body in every seat, so what changed from last year for you? The lack of visibility this year ironically resulted in more people being on WLs this year, with less movement, but in the end, nothing indicates that anyone who would have been successful last year was not successful this year. The only take away so far is that those with acceptances had less choices than last year. It's not like less people are entering medical school this year, so what evidence is there that anyone who was not successful this year would have been last year? How did the seat that you would have occupied last year disappear this year?

Please don't beat yourself up over application timing, but there is nothing in how this is playing out that indicates that it would have made a difference. Just try to get some constructive feedback and have a better outcome next time!
The school had told me that they had made it to my position on the waitlist last year. The last few years in fact.

In addition, if this year schools had a higher yield and over accepted less, who's to say more people wouldn't have been outright accepted if the rules hadn't changed, creating fewer people ahead of me, and everyone else, on the waitlist?

The seat obviously didn't disappear, but overall the waitlist movement did shrink considerably. I know the number of seats didn't change that much, and if anything they increased slightly with new schools opening. However, I'm still slightly confused about how the waitlist movement changed so significantly at some schools if the net number of students remained about the same.
 
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DrOptimusPrime

SDN Bronze Donor
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Dec 2, 2013
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The school had told me that they had made it to my position on the waitlist last year. The last few years in fact.

In addition, if this year schools had a higher yield and over accepted less, who's to say more people wouldn't have been outright accepted if the rules hadn't changed, creating fewer people ahead of me, and everyone else, on the waitlist?

The seat obviously didn't disappear, but overall the waitlist movement did shrink considerably. I know the number of seats didn't change that much, and if anything they increased slightly with new schools opening. However, I'm still slightly confused about how the waitlist movement changed so significantly at some schools if the net number of students remained about the same.

I think because the schools were so unsure about what was going to happen that they interviewed more people than they usually do and also waitlisted more people than usual instead of rejecting applicants.

I understand your frustration as both schools I was waitlisted at usually had amazing waitlist movement. One school started sending out rejections to second tier when last year they almost made it through second tier and the other school I’m still waiting on but have no hope of actually getting accepted and getting ready to move for DO school.

Edit:grammar
 
Mar 14, 2019
126
116
Status
Pre-Medical
The school had told me that they had made it to my position on the waitlist last year. The last few years in fact.

In addition, if this year schools had a higher yield and over accepted less, who's to say more people wouldn't have been outright accepted if the rules hadn't changed, creating fewer people ahead of me, and everyone else, on the waitlist?

The seat obviously didn't disappear, but overall the waitlist movement did shrink considerably. I know the number of seats didn't change that much, and if anything they increased slightly with new schools opening. However, I'm still slightly confused about how the waitlist movement changed so significantly at some schools if the net number of students remained about the same.
I know -- I'm also having a hard time wrapping my head around it. The WL movement changed because accepted candidates had fewer other acceptances, due to the rule changes, so more of them committed. I hope it makes you feel better to realize that there is still nothing to explain how someone not holding a seat this year would have had one last year, because that would require someone with an acceptance this year to have not had one last year, and there is nothing in the rule change that would account for that.

Bottom line - this year's WL cannot be compared to last year's, so I think the error is in equating this year's WL position to what it would have been last year. It's likely you would have been lower on last year's list, and found yourself in the exact same position as you are in, relatively speaking. Otherwise, what would account for the person who got in this year who you would have displaced last year?

Please understand, this is meant to apply some cold logic to help you avoid playing woulda coulda shoulda, and to not torture yourself over something out of your control that, from a logical perspective, could not have hurt you this year.
 
Sep 21, 2017
124
161
Status
Medical Student (Accepted)
I received a call for one of the schools I was waitlisted at today and plan to accept. I had already submit my AMCAS application for next year, but it wasn't reviewed. Do I withdraw it? Does it make any difference? I know they won't refund me but should I still do something?
Congrats! Which school if you don’t mind my asking?
 
Feb 23, 2018
127
69
Does anyone have advice for applying to the same school while on its WL? Will it have any impact on the WL decision/is it advised against?
 
Apr 24, 2019
393
761
Status
Pre-Medical
Why do you think this is the case? The number of seats hasn't changed (other than the few created by the brand new schools, so if anything, slightly more people will be MS1s in 2019 as compared to 2018), so the number of people ultimately receiving acceptances hasn't changed. The change this year really just impacted the number of people with multiple acceptances, and the amount of WL movement.

There is still going to be a body in every seat, so what changed from last year for you? The lack of visibility this year ironically resulted in more people being on WLs this year, with less movement, but in the end, nothing indicates that anyone who would have been successful last year was not successful this year. The only take away so far is that those with acceptances had less choices than last year. It's not like less people are entering medical school this year, so what evidence is there that anyone who was not successful this year would have been last year? How did the seat that you would have occupied last year disappear this year?

Please don't beat yourself up over application timing; there is nothing in how this is playing out that indicates that it would have made a difference. Just try to get some constructive feedback and have a better outcome next time!
"There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosopy."

-- Hamlet to Horatio in Hamlet
 
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Jan 24, 2019
17
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Does anyone have advice for applying to the same school while on its WL? Will it have any impact on the WL decision/is it advised against?
For what its worth, I got into WMed the same day I got the secondary for this year from them. I guess no better way to show you want in to a school than to be applying for the next cycle. Of course this is just my experience, I don't know how it'll extrapolate to other schools, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
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schborke

2+ Year Member
Sep 2, 2015
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Pre-Medical
Does anyone have advice for applying to the same school while on its WL? Will it have any impact on the WL decision/is it advised against?
I dont think it matters. If anything it just shows you are committed and interested.
 
Jun 7, 2018
129
1,406
Status
Pre-Medical
Did anyone see any movement after their CTE deadline at their respective WL school? Or mostly nothing.
Ours was Monday, nothing. I guess there's a 1 in a million chance they have spots and they're waiting until after July 15th (CTE for most schools) to give them out, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
 

gyngyn

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@gyngyn do schools penalize applicants who in a previous cycle applied but didn't complete the secondary but in the upcoming cycle did send in their secondary?
Some do (re-applicant stigma), others do not.
Most state publics seem pretty forgiving.
 
May 2, 2019
18
72
Status
MD/PhD Student
I ask because logic would suggest that more acceptances have to go out.
I think this feels true and everyone here wants to believe it, but I don't know if it is. Ultimately, even if we drastically overestimate and say there are still 20% of every medical school class that (rightly or wrongly) is on a waitlist and hopes to go to a different school, nothing will happen unless there is an impetus for movement, and that impetus has yet to be seen.

Going forward, I honestly can't think of what would even lead to movement. Its the same dilemma as this whole cycle, maybe students want to go to a different school, but unless someone at that school drops, there aren't any spots available. But, why would that student drop if their desired WL school is in the same situation?

I'm totally open to ideas about what a possible impetus could be that leads to movement, because I don't have any. The idea that CTE dates would lead to movement was based on the hope that students wouldn't CTE to their school because they got in somewhere else, but with no movement, everyone is just CTE-ing where they are and that's that.
Again, totally open to ideas that could lead to movement.
 
Mar 14, 2019
126
116
Status
Pre-Medical
I think this feels true and everyone here wants to believe it, but I don't know if it is. Ultimately, even if we drastically overestimate and say there are still 20% of every medical school class that (rightly or wrongly) is on a waitlist and hopes to go to a different school, nothing will happen unless there is an impetus for movement, and that impetus has yet to be seen.

Going forward, I honestly can't think of what would even lead to movement. Its the same dilemma as this whole cycle, maybe students want to go to a different school, but unless someone at that school drops, there aren't any spots available. But, why would that student drop if their desired WL school is in the same situation?

I'm totally open to ideas about what a possible impetus could be that leads to movement, because I don't have any. The idea that CTE dates would lead to movement was based on the hope that students wouldn't CTE to their school because they got in somewhere else, but with no movement, everyone is just CTE-ing where they are and that's that.
Again, totally open to ideas that could lead to movement.
I've been accused of beating this horse to death over the past few weeks (or is it months now?) -- the only thing that could lead to movement is people still holding multiple acceptances, and it has widely reported by those in a position to know that there are only a handful of candidates holding multiple acceptances at this point in the cycle. Without this, there is simply nothing to cause a PTE to not convert to CTE, so WL movement is not occurring on a meaningful basis.

Of course, @gyngyn is also correct, insofar as IF there is WL movement, the other thing that would cause widespread disruption is if schools decide to ignore commitments candidates have made elsewhere, and create last minute multiple acceptances by offering spots off the WL to candidates CTEd elsewhere. Also no reports of this happening to date, probably due to the "do unto others" theory pursuant to which schools are acting in their best interests by not screwing with other schools' CTE candidates, since they will certainly find themselves to be victims of that practice in the future if it becomes a thing.

Again, it really would help everyone, schools and candidates alike, if this dance were pushed forward to May at all schools, and candidates were free to accept WL offers of admission whenever they are made after making a conditional commitment to one school.
 
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May 2, 2019
18
72
Status
MD/PhD Student
Again, it really would help everyone, schools and candidates alike, if this dance were pushed forward to May at all schools, and candidates were free to accept WL offers of admission whenever they are made after making a conditional commitment to one school.
but this is exactly PTE. The problem was that there wasn't much movement after the PTE date because of the fewer overall acceptances, so its just a total stalemate
 
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Apr 24, 2019
393
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Pre-Medical
I've been accused of beating this horse to death over the past few weeks (or is it months now?) -- the only thing that could lead to movement is people still holding multiple acceptances, and it has widely reported by those in a position to know that there are only a handful of candidates holding multiple acceptances at this point in the cycle. Without this, there is simply nothing to cause a PTE to not convert to CTE, so WL movement is not occurring on a meaningful basis.

Of course, @gyngyn is also correct, insofar as IF there is WL movement, the other thing that would cause widespread disruption is if schools decide to ignore commitments candidates have made elsewhere, and create last minute multiple acceptances by offering spots off the WL to candidates CTEd elsewhere. Also no reports of this happening to date, probably due to the "do unto others" theory pursuant to which schools are acting in their best interests by not screwing with other schools' CTE candidates, since they will certainly find themselves to be victims of that practice in the future if it becomes a thing.

Again, it really would help everyone, schools and candidates alike, if this dance were pushed forward to May at all schools, and candidates were free to accept WL offers of admission whenever they are made after making a conditional commitment to one school.
You should create a new thread called "Beating a Dead Horse" and take the other horse beaters with you.