wysdoc

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CTE deadlines are here, and they have seemed to bring on just about zero movement. Some school threads are closing up with the "class is full" message from adcoms. Anyone have any rational hope left for this cycle? I am struggling to find any. Like many have said on this thread, it seems that all PTEs have basically become CTEs.

@gyngyn do you have any comments on this? Are there many PTEs left around at schools?
Well, probably the students who had been waffling at your WL school and were told to "Commit or lose their place" finally committed.
There has to be an end to the waffling sometime, schools will be starting orientation soon!
 
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DrOptimusPrime

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Out of curiosity does anyone have any idea what to expect with schools that don’t have a CTE deadline? I think my waitlist school doesn’t and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing
 
May 2, 2019
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Out of curiosity does anyone have any idea what to expect with schools that don’t have a CTE deadline? I think my waitlist school doesn’t and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing
I'd be inclined to think this is better because it would allow students to remain on waitlists ad infinitum instead of forcing them off at a CTE date. Meaning, someone who is holding an acceptance to your WL school has a better chance of getting off their desired waitlist, which would therefore open up a spot at your school.

The common theme seems to be PTE -> CTE, so if the students never have to CTE, they can remain PTE forever and remain on waitlists. Admittedly though, its impossible to know because this is the first year.
 

DrOptimusPrime

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I'd be inclined to think this is better because it would allow students to remain on waitlists ad infinitum instead of forcing them off at a CTE date. Meaning, someone who is holding an acceptance to your WL school has a better chance of getting off their desired waitlist, which would therefore open up a spot at your school.

The common theme seems to be PTE -> CTE, so if the students never have to CTE, they can remain PTE forever and remain on waitlists. Admittedly though, its impossible to know because this is the first year.

I hope you’re right!
 
Dec 4, 2018
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10 interviews, 6 rejections and 4 waitlists. I called for feedback and none of the schools gave me a solid reason why I wasn’t accepted, every school said something like “we like older applicants” They told me all my interviews were fine. I guess the cycle is just a crapshoot sometimes. Here’s to another cycle. I don’t know what the chances are of getting off the WL at this point.
Seems like you have a really strong app. I also had a lot of interviews but less than you. It really drives you crazy thinking what could be missing, especially when the interview wasn’t a flop. Are you reapplying this cycle?
 
Jul 9, 2019
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Hey all! Long-time lurker here. Can anyone (esp. @gyngyn) tell me if there is ANY risk in hitting CTE but still remaining on waitlists (assuming the waitlist schools don’t automatically kick me off)? I know it’s against the rules, but my instincts of self-preservation are kicking in a little bit here. I’m currently waitlisted at 2 California schools, and the thought of going to the east coast with no support system makes me want to dig a hole, crawl in it, and stay there forever. One of these schools has purged groups of people from the waitlist on at least 2 occasions, but I’m still alive, and a few weeks back they also sent me an email to ask if I’m still interested, an email that did not get sent to everyone. Maybe it’s naïve to have hope at this point, but I can’t help myself. Disclaimer: I mean no disrespect to people with no acceptances, and I am grateful for the ones I have been given. I’m just panicking right now, and I'm sorry if this offends anyone.
 
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gyngyn

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Hey all! Long-time lurker here. Can anyone (esp. @gyngyn) tell me if there is ANY risk in hitting CTE but still remaining on waitlists (assuming the waitlist schools don’t automatically kick me off)? I know it’s against the rules, but my instincts of self-preservation are kicking in a little bit here. I’m currently waitlisted at 2 California schools, and the thought of going to the east coast with no support system makes me want to dig a hole, crawl in it, and stay there forever. One of these schools has purged groups of people from the waitlist on at least 2 occasions, but I’m still alive, and a few weeks back they also sent me an email to ask if I’m still interested, an email that did not get sent to everyone. Maybe it’s naïve to have hope at this point, but I can’t help myself. Disclaimer: I mean no disrespect to people with no acceptances, and I am grateful for the ones I have been given. I’m just panicking right now, and I'm sorry if this offends anyone.
The AAMC has advised us that they do not intend to take any action on waitlisted candidates who have CTE's elsewhere.
We receive a report that indicates how many of our CTE's are holding waitlists elsewhere but we have no way of knowing who they are.
 
May 28, 2018
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The AAMC has advised us that they do not intend to take any action on waitlisted candidates who have CTE's elsewhere.
We receive a report that indicates how many of our CTE's are holding waitlists elsewhere but we have no way of knowing who they are.
Would schools likely blacklist applicants committed to enroll but attend somewhere else after a waitlist acceptance from residency in the future?
 
Mar 14, 2019
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I'd be inclined to think this is better because it would allow students to remain on waitlists ad infinitum instead of forcing them off at a CTE date. Meaning, someone who is holding an acceptance to your WL school has a better chance of getting off their desired waitlist, which would therefore open up a spot at your school.

The common theme seems to be PTE -> CTE, so if the students never have to CTE, they can remain PTE forever and remain on waitlists. Admittedly though, its impossible to know because this is the first year.
... or it's worse because there is nothing to ever make them relinquish the seat, even if they are not attending! Depending on when deposits are due, the school might not know it has a seat available until they don't show up for orientation!! If they are going, you're never going to get their spot. If they're not going, I think it's better for everyone to know sooner rather than later.

Given how little WL movement there is at this point in the cycle, it's highly unlikely a seat will open up because someone is accepted off another WL. If a seat is going to open up, it is much likely to be because someone is holding multiple acceptances. If this is the case, everyone (except the person holding the multiple acceptances!) is better off if a decision is made ASAP, as opposed to ad infinitum.

Question for @DrOptimusPrime -- do you know whether the school uses PTE/CTE at all? If not, then it's probably more likely that its acceptees are holding multiple acceptances, since other schools might not be able to run a report to see that they were accepted. If they are using the protocol, then the lack of a deadline really doesn't help you, since the acceptees would be less likely to be able to hold multiple acceptances, since the other schools would be able to see the PTE.
 
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... or it's worse because there is nothing to ever make them relinquish the seat, even if they are not attending! Depending on when deposits are due, the school might not know it has a seat available until they don't show up for orientation!! If they are going, you're never going to get their spot. If they're not going, I think it's better for everyone to know sooner rather than later.

Given how little WL movement there is at this point in the cycle, it's highly unlikely a seat will open up because someone is accepted off another WL. If a seat is going to open up, it is much likely to be because someone is holding multiple acceptances. If this is the case, everyone (except the person holding the multiple acceptances!) is better off if a decision is made ASAP, as opposed to ad infinitum.
I'm not saying that its a good chance, but its better than a 0% chance. If a school enforces the CTE and requires that you to drop all WLs, then unless someone drops out for a different reason, there will be absolutely no WL movement.
At least if the students can remain on the WL until orientation, there is still the possibility of movement.

Even in your situation where the school doesn't recognize they have open seats until orientation, they will still then act to fill those open seats after orientation (I would think... i've no idea honestly), so that would still generate movement.
 
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DrOptimusPrime

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... or it's worse because there is nothing to ever make them relinquish the seat, even if they are not attending! Depending on when deposits are due, the school might not know it has a seat available until they don't show up for orientation!! If they are going, you're never going to get their spot. If they're not going, I think it's better for everyone to know sooner rather than later.

Given how little WL movement there is at this point in the cycle, it's highly unlikely a seat will open up because someone is accepted off another WL. If a seat is going to open up, it is much likely to be because someone is holding multiple acceptances. If this is the case, everyone (except the person holding the multiple acceptances!) is better off if a decision is made ASAP, as opposed to ad infinitum.

Question for @DrOptimusPrime -- do you know whether the school uses PTE/CTE at all? If not, then it's probably more likely that its acceptees are holding multiple acceptances, since other schools might not be able to run a report to see that they were accepted. If they are using the protocol, then the lack of a deadline really doesn't help you, since the acceptees would be less likely to be able to hold multiple acceptances, since the other schools would be able to see the PTE.

I have no idea to be honest. It was mentioned in the past they don’t have a CTE deadline. Their deposits were due May 1. But it was only $100. One of the accepted students did say that accepted student day most students were planning on enrolling so maybe they have PTE and but don’t have a set date for CTE
 

gyngyn

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I finally got a response back from the AAMC regarding the students holding multiple accepts:

Thank you for your email. This is not an error. A couple of things could be going on, the applicant may not have proactively contacted the school to withdraw, or the school may not have submitted the withdraw action back to us yet. Unfortunately, we cannot provide you with any information on the two applicants. I do apologize for the inconvenience this causes. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

In conclusion, there is no way to "run a report" that will indicate which accepted student is holding another acceptance.
 
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Jul 2, 2018
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Seems like you have a really strong app. I also had a lot of interviews but less than you. It really drives you crazy thinking what could be missing, especially when the interview wasn’t a flop. Are you reapplying this cycle?
Yes I will be reapplying this cycle adding more clinical and extracurriculars on my application
 
Mar 14, 2019
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I finally got a response back from the AAMC regarding the students holding multiple accepts:

Thank you for your email. This is not an error. A couple of things could be going on, the applicant may not have proactively contacted the school to withdraw, or the school may not have submitted the withdraw action back to us yet. Unfortunately, we cannot provide you with any information on the two applicants. I do apologize for the inconvenience this causes. Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

In conclusion, there is no way to "run a report" that will indicate which accepted student is holding another acceptance.
Thanks for the clarification. I am just a lowly pre-med, so I don't have access to anything other than what kind folks like you share, plus what is publicly available. I do, however, have a feeling that this means that your two candidates have acceptances at schools that have not required use of the CYMS tool, since AAMC says on its website, and this has been confirmed by several posters here, that schools could run reports to identify which of their WL or accepted students have selected PTE or CTE elsewhere. If your two candidates are accepted at schools not requiring use of the tool, then it seems likely that AAMC knows they have the other acceptances (since they were probably reported to them), but you can't see them because they are neither PTE nor CTE. Can you think of another reason other schools can see things that you can't?
 
Mar 14, 2019
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There is no way to enforce the CTE.
It has been reported that CTEs have been enforced by WL schools, by those schools immediately dropping candidates from their WLs once they see the CTEs (again, they can run a report!).
 
Jul 15, 2018
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It has been reported that CTEs have been enforced by WL schools, by those schools immediately dropping candidates from their WLs once they see the CTEs (again, they can run a report!).
the waitlist school can do that, not the cte school. if i am cte'd at school a and waitlisted at school b, school b can drop me from their waitlist but school a can't do anything. school b may not choose to do anything because it's not in their interest to lose good waitlist candidates.
 
Mar 14, 2019
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the waitlist school can do that, not the cte school. if i am cte'd at school a and waitlisted at school b, school b can drop me from their waitlist but school a can't do anything. school b may not choose to do anything because it's not in their interest to lose good waitlist candidates.
Yes; but that is certainly a form of enforcing a CTE, isn't it?

By the way, has anyone heard of anyone who was CTE'd anywhere subsequently being accepted off a WL? One of the great questions here has been whether schools would honor CTE designations. So far, it looks like they are. Of course, it won't matter if people aren't holding multiple acceptances, since that is really the only thing at this point that will generate meaningful WL movement.
 
Mar 14, 2019
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Yeah, that's true. I think gyngyn was referring to the CTE school's perspective.
I know, and that relates back to our back and forth over the weekend. CTE schools cannot see WLs. WL schools will either enforce CTE or not, so there is no reason to take yourself off a WL after CTEing, and also no reason to call attention to the fact that you have not taken yourself off when you were supposed to! :)

The only thing a CTE school can do to enforce (and @gyngyn has not acknowledged this, although it is clearly set forth on the AAMC CYMS website, and has been reported by other posters) is run a report to identify accepted candidates (PTEs or CTEs) who have PTE'd or CTE'd elsewhere, and rescind their acceptances if it so chooses.
 
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Jul 15, 2018
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I know, and that relates back to our back and forth over the weekend, CTE schools cannot see WLs. WL schools will either enforce CTE or not, so there is no reason to take yourself off a WL after CTEing, and also no reason to call attention to the fact that you have not taken yourself off when you were supposed to! :)
exactly
 

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It has been reported that CTEs have been enforced by WL schools, by those schools immediately dropping candidates from their WLs once they see the CTEs (again, they can run a report!).
We cannot run a report which identifies multiple acceptances, nor can we see if WL's have been dropped by candidates who have CTE'd.
Therefore we as schools, cannot "enforce" CTE's. Only the AAMC has the ability to enforce CTE and they have explicitly chosen not to do so.
 
Jul 15, 2018
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Yes; but that is certainly a form of enforcing a CTE, isn't it?

By the way, has anyone heard of anyone who was CTE'd anywhere subsequently being accepted off a WL? One of the great questions here has been whether schools would honor CTE designations. So far, it looks like they are. Of course, it won't matter if people aren't holding multiple acceptances, since that is really the only thing at this point that will generate meaningful WL movement.
i think someone did report that earlier in this thread, but it seems to be a rare occurrence.
 
Mar 27, 2019
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IME and from what I have heard, some schools are quite overburdened, or non-responsive, and the withdrawal process can be very unclear for accepted and waitlisted students. It could just be that many schools are just failing to report the withdrawals as well and that screws up information for others.
 

gyngyn

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The only thing a CTE school can do to enforce (and @gyngyn has not acknowledged this, although it is clearly set forth on the AAMC CYMS website, and has been reported by other posters) is run a report to identify accepted candidates (PTEs or CTEs) who have PTE'd or CTE'd elsewhere, and rescind their acceptances if it so chooses.
Let's try again: we cannot run a report that identifies accepted candidates who are PTE, CTE or are waitlisted elsewhere.
We get a report that gives us the number of multiple acceptances and the number of accepted students holding a WL position elsewhere.
These accepted students are not identified as individuals. This has been specifically confirmed by the AAMC.
 
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Jun 20, 2018
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Let me try again: we cannot run a report that identifies accepted candidates who are PTE, CTE or are waitlisted elsewhere.
We get a report that gives us the number of multiple acceptances and the number of accepted students holding a WL position elsewhere.
These accepted students are not identified as individuals. This has been specifically confirmed by the AAMC.
What portion of your students have held onto other waitlists so far?
 
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Mar 14, 2019
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We cannot run a report which identifies multiple acceptances, nor can we see if WL's have been dropped by candidates who have CTE'd.
Therefore we as schools, cannot "enforce" CTE's. Only the AAMC has the ability to enforce CTE and they have explicitly chosen not to do so.
Welp, had to select CTE today and my waitlist school immediately emailed asking me to confirm my removal from their WL. Hate these rules but at least the waiting game is over
@gyngyn -- @sosos's WL school immediately saw the CTE and dropped him or her off the WL. I understand you cannot identify accepted candidates on other WLs, but you are supposed to be able to identify accepted and WL candidates that are PTE and CTE elsewhere. There are multiple reports here that other schools can and have been doing that.
 

gyngyn

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@gyngyn -- @sosos's WL school immediately saw the CTE and dropped him or her off the WL. I understand you cannot identify accepted candidates on other WLs, but you are supposed to be able to identify accepted and WL candidates that are PTE and CTE elsewhere. There are multiple reports here that other schools can and have been doing that.
We can see which waitlisted candidates are PTE and now CTE elsewhere
We cannot see which accepted students are PTE or CTE elsewhere.
 
Mar 14, 2019
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Let's try again: we cannot run a report that identifies accepted candidates who are PTE, CTE or are waitlisted elsewhere.
We get a report that gives us the number of multiple acceptances and the number of accepted students holding a WL position elsewhere.
These accepted students are not identified as individuals. This has been specifically confirmed by the AAMC.
@gyngyn -- I hear you, and totally believe you. You have gone way above and beyond the call of duty sharing knowledge, soothing nerves, and policing the forum. There is, however, a disconnect between what you are experiencing, what others are reporting, and what AAMC has posted on its website.

Please see "Medical School Actions" as of April 30 below, copied and pasted from the AMCAS CYMS web page.

Very puzzling!!!

271113
 

gyngyn

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@gyngyn -- I hear you, and totally believe you. You have gone way above and beyond the call of duty sharing knowledge, soothing nerves, and policing the forum. There is, however, a disconnect between what you are experiencing, what others are reporting, and what AAMC has posted on its website.

Please see "Medical School Actions" as of April 30 below, copied and pasted from the AMCAS CYMS web page.

Very puzzling!!!

View attachment 271113
I have both reviewed the lists that can be generated (by us) and contacted the AAMC to confirm that we do not have access to any information regarding other acceptances or waitlists held by accepted students. I have also confirmed that they have no intention of enforcing any commitments as an organization.
Thus, they have made it impossible for us, as schools to enforce any of these constructs.