2020-2021 Lincoln Memorial University DeBusk College of Osteopathic Medicine (LMU-DCOM)

Med School Insiders
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wanderingshamans said:
You should avoid this school If you have other options. LMU has one of the lowest (if not the lowest) COMLEX scores and a high attrition rate. Just look at how many start vs how many are "placed" into residency. I'll give you a hint, it's around 17% that flunk out or are kicked out. This doesn't take into account ~18% avg SOAP across all DO schools and probably higher for LMU (MD is ~13%) or those who take 5+ years to finish.
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What is soap? Subjective, objective, assessment and plan?
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sittingbull said:
I would like to know this too!
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It’s what you have to do if you don’t match into any of your ranked residencies come match week. You scramble to find a program that will take you. If a school has a high number that SOAP that means that a high number of their students don’t initially match.
 
MotherofDragonflies said:
It’s what you have to do if you don’t match into any of your ranked residencies come match week. You scramble to find a program that will take you. If a school has a high number that SOAP that means that a high number of their students don’t initially match.
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Thank you. That makes sense. But what does the acronym stand for?
 
wanderingshamans said:
You should avoid this school If you have other options. LMU has one of the lowest (if not the lowest) COMLEX scores and a high attrition rate. Just look at how many start vs how many are "placed" into residency. I'll give you a hint, it's around 17% that flunk out or are kicked out. This doesn't take into account ~18% avg SOAP across all DO schools and probably higher for LMU (MD is ~13%) or those who take 5+ years to finish.
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That’s crazy! Do you know why that is (board scores) since we have to pass the COMSAE with a 450 before being allowed to take comlex??
yeah attrition is nuts. We’ve lost 22+ in knox alone. Not sure if Covid or...
 
I’m attaching the link for you guys to check the residency placement and COMLEX scores. They seem pretty good to me. Look at it yourself and make your judgment! I’ve actually compared it with several schools, and it’s either the same or higher!

Student Outcomes

www.lmunet.edu www.lmunet.edu
 
premedmommyx2 said:
That’s crazy! Do you know why that is (board scores) since we have to pass the COMSAE with a 450 before being allowed to take comlex??
yeah attrition is nuts. We’ve lost 22+ in knox alone. Not sure if Covid or...
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I’ve heard that COMSAEs are pretty bad in predicting scores - but I’d also question this user’s source for low COMLEX scores, given that most med schools (DCOM included, that I know of) don’t advertise their COMLEX scores, rather their first-time pass rate.

22+/125 have been dropped completely, or are you including repeats? I’d expect that if you’re including repeats.
 
Xaos said:
I’ve heard that COMSAEs are pretty bad in predicting scores - but I’d also question this user’s source for low COMLEX scores, given that most med schools (DCOM included, that I know of) don’t advertise their COMLEX scores, rather their first-time pass rate.

22+/125 have been dropped completely, or are you including repeats? I’d expect that if you’re including repeats.
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I agree with you! Also, if you look at the residency placement, it was around 98% for 2020 (if I’m not mistaken).
If you look at the first time pass rate for the COMLEX exams for 2020, they were pretty high too. When you compare that to other schools, it’s pretty much the same and sometimes DCOM has higher numbers.
People can just look at the website I mentioned in my last threat. They’ll see that the numbers are very good and numbers don’t lie. So, if the numbers are good, it’s obviously because the school is doing an overall good job 🙂
 
premed8218 said:
I agree with you! Also, if you look at the residency placement, it was around 98% for 2020 (if I’m not mistaken).
If you look at the first time pass rate for the COMLEX exams for 2020, they were pretty high too. When you compare that to other schools, it’s pretty much the same and sometimes DCOM has higher numbers.
People can just look at the website I mentioned in my last threat. They’ll see that the numbers are very good and numbers don’t lie. So, if the numbers are good, it’s obviously because the school is doing an overall good job 🙂
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Residency placement % is high, but you have to keep in mind that those numbers only consider “eligible graduates”. You’ll notice that there were only 204 eligible graduates in the class of 2020, compared to 232 in the class of 2019. That’s not because they admitted fewer people. DCOM (and many other schools) are not keen on advertising numbers like attrition and 4-year graduation rate.

Yes, their graduates by and large match at or above the average rates. But what % of them graduate (and graduate in 4 years) is a different question that is not answered as well with the data provided. That doesn’t mean that DCOM underperforms in that area, but...AAMC estimates that only ~85% of matriculants graduate in four years. I don’t know if AACOM reports that data or not, but it’s probably not that far off. Schools don’t like advertising that 15% of students will drop or repeat, even if that is average.
 
wanderingshamans said:
They admit ~250 and another ~140 at the established campus. Only ~200 from the main campus match year by year. Even if you account for those held back you would see higher numbers in subsequent years, but you don't.
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You’re misleading here. Knoxville campus has not graduated a class yet; their students haven’t even taken boards yet.

Average match # over the last four years is ~212, not ~200, which is the difference between about average, and less than.
 
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wanderingshamans said:
Where did I say Knoxville graduated a class? The ~200 is for Harrogate only. However, it seems that the branch campus is not on-par with the main campus which is typical of branch campuses so I wouldn't be surprised to see only 65-75% of the original entering class match a residency (and likely not their preferred specialty)
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Your assessment that the branch campus isn’t on-par with the main campus is based on what? They have no typically measured outcomes, attrition seems on par, and leadership & curriculum are the same as main campus. You seem to be inferring and assuming a lot from what isn’t there.


Edit to say, it’s misleading because you’re going from talking about recent numbers with Knoxville students to pre-Knoxville numbers in the same sentence, and by rounding down like that you’re essentially fudging the statistics by ~5%. I’m not saying that DCOM is a better choice than most schools, but there’s no point in making it sound worse than it is with inaccuracy.
 
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wanderingshamans said:
You should avoid this school If you have other options. LMU has one of the lowest (if not the lowest) COMLEX scores and a high attrition rate. Just look at how many start vs how many are "placed" into residency. I'll give you a hint, it's around 17% that flunk out or are kicked out. This doesn't take into account ~18% avg SOAP across all DO schools and probably higher for LMU (MD is ~13%) or those who take 5+ years to finish.
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I just looked it up and did the calculations myself. The percent "flunked out or kicked out" is around 12%. If you are going to spread negative beliefs, at least make sure your information is accurate.
 
Xaos said:
I’ve heard that COMSAEs are pretty bad in predicting scores - but I’d also question this user’s source for low COMLEX scores, given that most med schools (DCOM included, that I know of) don’t advertise their COMLEX scores, rather their first-time pass rate.

22+/125 have been dropped completely, or are you including repeats? I’d expect that if you’re including repeats.
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I’m unsure how many are repeating. I know last year there were6. A handful realized this isn’t what they want, and other than that 🤷🏼‍♀️
 
LMU dcom got a new dean recently. No idea if it will make things better or worse but I can tell you the new one is a true fan of OMM which is obviously a downside and posssibly downgrade from the last. But I’ve also heard of him working more with our class leadership back when I was there taking complaints seriously so who knows where it will go. They are all pawns of Pete debusk anyway so
 
premed7124 said:
Do you know if it’s ranked or how the WL works?
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They said it's unranked and they evaluate the entire waitlist once they decide to pull someone off. I believe it's the admissions staff who decides who is pulled it does not go back to the committee but they were quite vague when I called. Maybe someone else on this thread can speak more to it.
 
I have heard like most the class is failing at the Knox campus this year because apparently MFM and micro teachers decided to be worse than before?

buyer beware, would like a current students input on this. Placing an F to explain on your transcript during residency interviews seems to be a good pastime at DCOM.
 
TwistedTea said:
I have heard like most the class is failing at the Knox campus this year because apparently MFM and micro teachers decided to be worse than before?

buyer beware, would like a current students input on this. Placing an F to explain on your transcript during residency interviews seems to be a good pastime at DCOM.
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I didn’t hear anything about that. Also, the professors are shared between the two campuses. It doesn’t make sense that people in Knoxville are failing just because of that. Not sure how accurate your information is!!
 
premed8218 said:
I didn’t hear anything about that. Also, the professors are shared between the two campuses. It doesn’t make sense that people in Knoxville are failing just because of that. Not sure how accurate your information is!!
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Yeah hence why I asked. Will have to see how many people remediate lol
 
TwistedTea said:
Yeah hence why I asked. Will have to see how many people remediate lol
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I apologize, I didn't see the question mark lol
However, people get accepted based on their qualifications and credentials, regardless of their campus of choice. The professors are shared from both campuses, as far as I know. So, I believe that Knoxville will be just in the "normal" range as all the other med schools, in terms of dropouts and stuff like that.
 
TwistedTea said:
I have heard like most the class is failing at the Knox campus this year because apparently MFM and micro teachers decided to be worse than before?

buyer beware, would like a current students input on this. Placing an F to explain on your transcript during residency interviews seems to be a good pastime at DCOM.
Click to expand...
My understanding is it’s the entire class, not just knox. And it’s more physio than micro. But I also know the Physio dept is working hard to figure out why it’s happening and how to fix it. Some people here do actually care about the students and their success. Others.. not so much
 
premedmommyx2 said:
My understanding is it’s the entire class, not just knox. And it’s more physio than micro. But I also know the Physio dept is working hard to figure out why it’s happening and how to fix it. Some people here do actually care about the students and their success. Others.. not so much
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exam avgs were really low in the beginning of the semester and there were at least 100+ people failing in knox/harrogate combined. We're 4 exams in for each class now and the avg exam grade is now around low 80s for mfm and high 70s (almost 80) for physio, which is a lot better.
 
science789 said:
I have a quick question is their secondary deadline April 1
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I believe so. I know they've sent out interview invites for the rest of March already. Some of the interview invites for April may have already been sent out too. Don't quote me on that, but there are a month and a half left in the interview cycle for DCOM. Turning in a secondary at this point might be too late, but can't hurt to shoot your shot.
 
premedmommyx2 said:
My understanding is it’s the entire class, not just knox. And it’s more physio than micro. But I also know the Physio dept is working hard to figure out why it’s happening and how to fix it. Some people here do actually care about the students and their success. Others.. not so much
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did they change the curriculum in physiology? we always had a lot that struggled in that class, especially the ones who were masters students since they never had to take more than one class at a time in the fall that required any heavy thinking. then they get hit with physiological and micro and boom the tears start flowing.
 
Current 1st year at the Knoxville campus doing well above average. Don't know much about our rotation sites, so I'll stick to what I do know. The first 2 years at LMU-DCOM are what you make of it. If you treat it like a 9-5 job, keep up with your anki, follow along with first aid, utilize outside resources like sketchy and B and B, and actually try to understand the material then you will be fine. If you are expecting to come in and be spoon fed the material, regurgitate facts, and have a hard time putting in real work, then I imagine it'll be tough to do well. It's true, not every professor is great, but all material taught is board relevant and at least touched upon during lecture. Filling in the gaps is up to the student through the use of other resources. Personally, I think many in my class are still learning that this is the case.

Happy to answer any other questions.
 
TwistedTea said:
I have heard like most the class is failing at the Knox campus this year because apparently MFM and micro teachers decided to be worse than before?

buyer beware, would like a current students input on this. Placing an F to explain on your transcript during residency interviews seems to be a good pastime at DCOM.
Click to expand...
Not true . It was Physio and the got rid of the professer that was the issue and now exam scores are a lot higher
 
happydo1 said:
Not true . It was Physio and the got rid of the professer that was the issue and now exam scores are a lot higher
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But it was a problem or they would not have gotten rid of him in the first place?
 
DOCtobe2024 said:
Current 1st year at the Knoxville campus doing well above average. Don't know much about our rotation sites, so I'll stick to what I do know. The first 2 years at LMU-DCOM are what you make of it. If you treat it like a 9-5 job, keep up with your anki, follow along with first aid, utilize outside resources like sketchy and B and B, and actually try to understand the material then you will be fine. If you are expecting to come in and be spoon fed the material, regurgitate facts, and have a hard time putting in real work, then I imagine it'll be tough to do well. It's true, not every professor is great, but all material taught is board relevant and at least touched upon during lecture. Filling in the gaps is up to the student through the use of other resources. Personally, I think many in my class are still learning that this is the case.

Happy to answer any other questions.
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Come back second year and let us know what you think
 
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