2020-2021 Waitlist Support Thread

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KnightDoc said:
I suggest you call and ask to speak to either the dean or the admissions director. Explain that you have an emergency situation involving an exploding scholarship at another school. If you can't get through, talk to whoever they allow you to speak with AND follow up with an email to the dean and/or director. You don't have time to mess around!

No, your WLs will NOT be automatically purged by the system, but, starting on 4/30, your WL school will be able to see the CTE and is supposed to drop you if you have not already withdrawn (which you are also supposed to do, and which is what your scholarship school is specifically requiring you to do). You NEED to get this straightened out with your WL school before 5/3.

These are your possible outcomes: (1) they accept you off the WL and you drop the other school; (2) they assure you that they WILL accept you off the WL, and you don't CTE to your scholarship school, just remain PTE, and let them rescind the scholarship; (3) they tell you they don't know what's going to happen with the WL, but they agree to allow you to remain on the WL while being CTE at the other school, in which case you CTE to the other school and wait to see what happens; or (4) they tell you it is unlikely you will be called off the WL, or, they tell you nothing but you cannot remain on the WL while being CTE elsewhere, in which you tell them thanks for nothing, withdraw from the WL, and grab the scholarship.

There is, of course, a 5th option, which is turning down the scholarship while remaining on the WL with no promises from the WL school, but, under the circumstances, I don't think the risk of never receiving the call off the WL is worth the $60K, especially after spelling all this out for the WL school and having them do absolutely nothing for you.
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thank you so much for all this and laying out the explanations clearly. it means alot and all the possible outcomes are something im going to have ot think about. i will think bout this alot through the night and i hope i can get a good answer in the morning. i appreciate you knightdoc
 
Rheopecty said:
Once you CTE, it's game over. No other options exist, you go to the place you CTE or don't anywhere (at least on MD-side) at all.
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Not if he WL school acknowledges and let's you stay on the WL without dropping he candidate as Knightdoc is describing.
 
Rheopecty said:
Once you CTE, it's game over. No other options exist, you go to the place you CTE or don't anywhere (at least on MD-side) at all.
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Says who? Schools control the ultimate outcome, not AAMC! It's only game over if other schools say so. There is literally nothing stopping a candidate from reneging on a commitment made under duress, other than other schools not allowing it.
 
Rheopecty said:
"Making an offer of admission to an applicant who has already matriculated at another school could result in the other school having an unfilled slot in its class. Each school is encouraged to take reasonable measures, including asking applicants under consideration whether they have already matriculated at another medical school, and carefully consider that information when deciding whether to make an offer to an applicant."

Fair enough...still seems like admission officers would shy away from what is essentially called poaching in other fields. My question is whether CYMS locks you into the CTE once you submit it, would a poaching school just do the matriculation confirmation/process outside AMCAS' purview?
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This is very true. But, does matriculation begin in May, when you select CTE, or in July or August, when orientation begins? I'm 1,000,000% sure it's the latter, and I haven't even applied yet! 😎

CTE absolutely is supposed to lock you in. The question is whether WL schools should tolerate schools like this poaching their WLs by creating exploding scholarships tied to unreasonably early CTE selections, or whether they should counteract it by engaging in a little poaching of their own.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I sure know what I would do if I were running admissions at the WL school. If this is not stopped in its tracks, you can bet it will become more widespread in the future, and will totally eff up the system AAMC went to great pains to create (different CTE dates at single schools, based on whether, when and how much bribe money is being offered).
 
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Rockdude said:
Ok. Now that I have read your acceptance letter, it is easy. I would NOT accept the “scholarship “ but you WILL remain as PTE at this school. By not accepting the scholarship you are NOT loosing the admission.

You can call the school that gave you the scholarship and confirm this.
You can choose to contact your WL school but it may not affect your admission chances even if you do not contact the WL school.

By doing this you are assured of getting in to one Med school this fall, just in case the WL does not work out.
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This is the best advice so far on this convo. Thanks, @Rockdude
@hosie618 if you wait until the last day and then mark it PTE, you can stay on the WL for your preferred school.
You might miss out on the scholarship but you might not.
 
KnightDoc said:
This is very true. But, does matriculation begin in May, when you select CTE, or in July or August, when orientation begins? I'm 1,000,000% sure it's the latter, and I haven't even applied yet! 😎

CTE absolutely is supposed to lock you in. The question is whether WL schools should tolerate schools like this poaching their WLs by creating exploding scholarships tied to unreasonably early CTE selections, or whether they should counteract it by engaging in a little poaching of their own.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I sure know what I would do if I were running admissions at the WL school. If this is not stopped in its tracks, you can bet it will become more widespread in the future, and will totally eff up the system AAMC went to great pains to create (different CTE dates at single schools, based on whether, when and how much bribe money is being offered).
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that's true matriculation does begin later on and i just dont understand why this school expects me to decide my life sooo much earlier than what is expected of me. if bribe money is being offered anywhere, it should set a red flag to other schools because potential students shift away from their school and go towards they money. i am being offered the money YET i still want to go to school that is not offering me anything...
 
Rockdude said:
Ok. Now that I have read your acceptance letter, it is easy. I would NOT accept the “scholarship “ but you WILL remain as PTE at this school. By not accepting the scholarship you are NOT loosing the admission.

You can call the school that gave you the scholarship and confirm this.
You can choose to contact your WL school but it may not affect your admission chances even if you do not contact the WL school.

By doing this you are assured of getting in to one Med school this fall, just in case the WL does not work out.
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yes! i will not lose the admission to the school if i dont accept it. however, i will lose the scholarship aka the 60k over the four years. this is what scares me, am i losing out on a opportunity to have money by waiting out?

i will deff call the school to confirm it.
i will contact the school deff just so i know how they feel about the situation, i was recently put on the WL last week. i sent a LOI to my waitlist the day after letting them know that i want to go to they school for xyz reasons AND that i have another offer (i did not name the school) and even tho i have an offer i would accept them without a doubt.

i WILL DEFF PTE to the accepted school on 4/30 but the worry of having to CTE my 5/3 just for this scholarship is scary
 
hosie618 said:
that's true matriculation does begin later on and i just dont understand why this school expects me to decide my life sooo much earlier than what is expected of me. if bribe money is being offered anywhere, it should set a red flag to other schools because potential students shift away from their school and go towards they money. i am being offered the money YET i still want to go to school that is not offering me anything...
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Because they have identified you as someone who is likely to bail before their CTE date, and they want to lock you in (probably because your stats increase their reported numbers and because they want to use you to increase their yield).

I think it is unethical to publish a CTE date and then alter it for certain people, rather than simply using money with no strings attached to lure you, or heaven forbid, maybe just organically making themselves a preferred destination, but, it is what it is, and it is not illegal. Other schools acting to undermine its effectiveness would serve to discourage it, and it looks like you are going to be a test case as to their willingness to do so. Good luck!!!
 
wysdoc said:
This is the best advice so far on this convo. Thanks, @Rockdude
@hosie618 if you wait until the last day and then mark it PTE, you can stay on the WL for your preferred school.
You might miss out on the scholarship but you might not.
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i am deff gonna PTE on 4/30 to my accepted school, i just hope that my WL school sees this and realizes i still want to go to their school regardless of me PTE somewhere else.

what do you mean by i might miss out on the scholarship "but you might not"?? they said in the email by choosing to accept that i AM committing to enroll and that 3 days after 4/30 "If you have not accepted by this time, the scholarship offer will be rescinded." so i dont think i will have it at all
 
hosie618 said:
i am deff gonna PTE on 4/30 to my accepted school, i just hope that my WL school sees this and realizes i still want to go to their school regardless of me PTE somewhere else.

what do you mean by i might miss out on the scholarship "but you might not"?? they said in the email by choosing to accept that i AM committing to enroll and that 3 days after 4/30 "If you have not accepted by this time, the scholarship offer will be rescinded." so i dont think i will have it at all
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Agreed! I also don't think there is any reason for you to call them to clarify anything. The e-mail you posted earlier couldn't possibly be any more clear.

You should PTE NOW, because it's your only A, so you have nothing to gain by waiting. If you accept the scholarship and CTE by 5/3, you will be committed and have a scholarship. If not, the scholarship offer will be rescinded, but that e-mail said nothing about rescinding your A, which they simply cannot do before their published CTE date.

On the other hand, they can place any conditions they want on a scholarship, which they have pretty clearly done here. The whole point is to get you to withdraw from WLs. I just don't see them giving you more time, which would defeat the whole purpose of what they are doing.
 
Beards And Bagels said:
For those on the WL who are preparing matriculation health records, are you just getting the titers/immunizations done and then planning on getting a doctor to fill out the school's paper work once they get off the WL? Waitlisted at both MD and DO schools that have said to start preparing these health records, but I'm just so confused on how to actually start. Should I get an appointment with a doctor and have them order the tests or just try to go to a lab myself/urgent care and ask to have them done per the school's requirements?
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I did the former. One of my schools laid out all the tests needed for immunization so I showed my PMD that paper. She ordered all the tests, went to a lab center the next day, and all done.
 
KnightDoc said:
Agreed! I also don't think there is any reason for you to call them to clarify anything. The e-mail you posted earlier couldn't possibly be any more clear.

You should PTE NOW, because it's your only A, so you have nothing to gain by waiting. If you accept the scholarship and CTE by 5/3, you will be committed and have a scholarship. If not, the scholarship offer will be rescinded, but that e-mail said nothing about rescinding your A, which they simply cannot do before their published CTE date.

On the other hand, they can place any conditions they want on a scholarship, which they have pretty clearly done here. The whole point is to get you to withdraw from WLs. I just don't see them giving you more time, which would defeat the whole purpose of what they are doing.
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i feel like if i even call them to clarify anything my accepted school might feel some type of way.... what if they get turned off by the fact i am asking questions like that which make it seem like i dont want their school at all LOL.

yes deff gonna PTE now, because i still WANT to go to A school regardless of the situation. I have worked too hard and waited too long to struggle with another cycle (as have many others on this thread, my heart goes out to you truly) exactly, they will not rescind my A if i dont accept it. but if i DO accept it then i will be committing to the school fully.

You're right about what you said about the conditions. they're clear to me say the lease. FREE MONEY--> ACCEPT US BY 5/3----> IF NO CTE, NO MONEY OR IF YES MONEY YOU HAVE TO CTE🙂))) .they want me to drop and its clear as day🙁
 
hosie618 said:
exactly my issue. I was so happy to receive the scholarship then i was in shock as i scrolled down the email to see that they said this

"On April 30th when the AMCAS Medical School Tool (CYMS) Commit to Enroll option opens, you will have 3 business days to accept this scholarship. By choosing to accept this scholarship you are also committing to enroll and should withdraw all other acceptances and wait lists. If you have not accepted by this time, the scholarship offer will be rescinded."

You are right i would NOT make a choice this early to CTE at this school if it weren't for the situation i am now in. this schools CTE date isn't until July...... which is a whole 2 months early where they want me to make this choice. I would 100% go the to WL school if i were accepted and I have only been prolonging my decision at my accepted school because I really want to go to this WL school for many reasons. HAHA, I love that you said "give a taste of their own medicine" cause its true and unfair for them to put me in this position.

Should i contact my WL school through email or by phone and what do you think I should tell them exactly, they have an Unranked WL from what i know so i'm not sure they can even tell me my position??

these were my only interviews. so the issue is if i never get off the WL i would HAVE to go to my accepted school (i am very thankful). I deff want the A but i feel like if it doesnt go my way, I will regret never taking the$60k tuition that could have helped me. i would consider staying on the WL, no matter what so it seems like i need to go ask the school what are my odds of success... ;/
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I would suggest against trying to coordinate your WL school to keep you on the WL if you accept the CTE offer of the other school for a couple of reasons. 1) You're asking your WL school to basically deceive your A school. If you do end up getting off the WL and withdraw your CTE from the other school, this not only f's up your A school's class planning, but also could hurt the relationship between your WL and A school. Not sure your WL school would want to do that. 2) This could come across as you trying to game the system. Your WL school might frown upon that, and it could possibly hurt your chances to get of the WL at your ideal school.

Is what your A school doing illegal? No. I understand why they would do this. They think you're an excellent candidate for their school and really want you to attend. Would it have been less schemy if they offered you the scholarship without the CTE requirement? Yes.
 
What i think you should do: PTE at your A school. Contact your WL school, tell them your situation, and ask them what they think you should do (don't try to plan against your A school). If you do end up forgoing the scholarship in hopes of getting off the WL, they will know you did this this because you told them about it. This could possibly help you get off the WL because it shows your commitment ("Wow, this applicant was willing to forgo a scholarship to stay on my WL. They must really want to go here!").

Alternatively, you could use this as a bargaining chip with your A school. Right now (pre April 30) they have no idea if you're accepted anywhere else. I know your WL school is your dream, but you possibly could try to bargain for a higher scholarship from your A school if you say you'll CTE. Say, you could ask for 20k a year instead of 15.
 
Beards And Bagels said:
For those on the WL who are preparing matriculation health records, are you just getting the titers/immunizations done and then planning on getting a doctor to fill out the school's paper work once they get off the WL? Waitlisted at both MD and DO schools that have said to start preparing these health records, but I'm just so confused on how to actually start. Should I get an appointment with a doctor and have them order the tests or just try to go to a lab myself/urgent care and ask to have them done per the school's requirements?
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Absolutely have your doctor order them! I needed titers just for MMR and a Quantiferon test that shows I'm negative for TB, and Quest would have charged me upwards of $700. With my doc's order, it went through insurance and I paid $140. Super great system.
 
Microbe_Hunter said:
Ugh I feel so sick every day remembering that I had 6 IIs and flubbed all those opportunities and have 0 As at this point. :scared:
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hey dude, if it makes you feel any better, i'm in the exact same boat with 6IIs and 5WLs at this point. needless to say the past few weeks have been pretty rough.. but fingers crossed post may 1st even though it really feels like those IIs were an admin mistake on someones part...?? 🥲🥲🥲
 
loxcreamcheeseonioncapers said:
hey dude, if it makes you feel any better, i'm in the exact same boat with 6IIs and 5WLs at this point. needless to say the past few weeks have been pretty rough.. but fingers crossed post may 1st even though it really feels like those IIs were an admin mistake on someones part...?? 🥲🥲🥲
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I refuse to believe that someone who makes their bagels so adequately (you're just missing tomato) will not be a part of the MD c/o 2025. Chin up, my brother/sister in bread.
 
TheDirtiestDiaper said:
I refuse to believe that someone who makes their bagels so adequately (you're just missing tomato) will not be a part of the MD c/o 2025. Chin up, my brother/sister in bread.
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HAHAHA thanks for the vote of confidence king/queen! i usually put tomato on my lox bagel, it either slipped my mind or it made the username too long LMFAOO 😂😂😂 but carbs solidarity!
 
Thanks so much rockdude and dirtiest diaper. ❤️ Wishing luck to everybody here. Yall are great and wholesome people!!
 
gonnif said:
It situations like this (which DO schools have had forever on a smaller scale) which is why we are working to revert to previous MAR/NAR system. And my answer to ethical issue here is simple, it is perfectly fair. Medical school's mission is to educate and produce doctor for further training and provide for the needs of the various population. Students are the raw material in that process. Oh, you mean ethical and fair to students? You have complete freedom to choose to apply or not. Once you have, you have agreed to all the terms, condition and policies of each school. No one forced you to apply to any school. Does that sound harsh? it is because that is the reality of the situation

And if you think this is controlling just wait to you working under managed care and insurance networks
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im gonna be a concierge physician though ....all my patients will pay me in cash or DOGE
 
gonnif said:
It situations like this (which DO schools have had forever on a smaller scale) which is why we are working to revert to previous MAR/NAR system. And my answer to ethical issue here is simple, it is perfectly fair. Medical school's mission is to educate and produce doctor for further training and provide for the needs of the various population. Students are the raw material in that process. Oh, you mean ethical and fair to students? You have complete freedom to choose to apply or not. Once you have, you have agreed to all the terms, condition and policies of each school. No one forced you to apply to any school. Does that sound harsh? it is because that is the reality of the situation

And if you think this is controlling just wait to you working under managed care and insurance networks
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I hear you and totally respect where you are coming from, but it kind of sounds like a rationale monopolists or sweatshop owners use in order to justify abusing their unequal power. It's what gives rise to laws protecting people who need protecting.

It's just interesting that you think it's okay for schools to use all their power any way they choose, because abuse of physicians is a way of life, so we might as well start getting used to it now, but it's not okay, and actually unethical, for candidates to take some of that power back to the extent the system established by AAMC allows for that, with the consent and assistance of other schools whose rights are also being trampled by conduct like this.

Bottom line -- "fair" is in the eye of the beholder. It is certainly permissible under the current structure. So is working with another school to mitigate and undermine it. Neither are really ethical. The alternative is to allow yourself to be a doormat blindly adhering to whatever one sided terms and conditions are shoved down your throat in order to be allowed to train for your chosen profession.
 
KnightDoc said:
I hear you and totally respect where you are coming from, but it kind of sounds like a rationale monopolists or sweatshop owners use in order to justify abusing their unequal power. It's what gives rise to laws protecting people who need protecting.

It's just interesting that you think it's okay for schools to use all their power any way they choose, because abuse of physicians is a way of life, so we might as well start getting used to it now, but it's not okay, and actually unethical, for candidates to take some of that power back to the extent the system established by AAMC allows for that, with the consent and assistance of other schools whose rights are also being trampled by conduct like this.

Bottom line -- "fair" is in the eye of the beholder. It is certainly permissible under the current structure. So is working with another school to mitigate and undermine it. Neither are really ethical. The alternative is to allow yourself to be a doormat blindly adhering to whatever one sided terms and conditions are shoved down your throat in order to be allowed to train for your chosen profession.
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The school is offering a scholarship and asking a student to decide by 3 days after the "narrow your schools to 1" April 30 date.
I don't see why you are so outraged about this.
 
proudofmykids said:
If other candidates you ally received A’s much shorter than 12 weeks post INterview (ie rolling admissions) I would bet your 12 weeks indicates you were right on the bubble and would be high on a ranked WL.
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12 weeks was pretty standard for people to hear back. I was definitely right on the cusp before they just started auto waitlisting everyone. This school received a massive influx of candidates this year so I think that’s part of the problem, 12 week is an insane timeline to be waiting though regardless
 
KnightDoc said:
I hear you and totally respect where you are coming from, but it kind of sounds like a rationale monopolists or sweatshop owners use in order to justify abusing their unequal power. It's what gives rise to laws protecting people who need protecting.

It's just interesting that you think it's okay for schools to use all their power any way they choose, because abuse of physicians is a way of life, so we might as well start getting used to it now, but it's not okay, and actually unethical, for candidates to take some of that power back to the extent the system established by AAMC allows for that, with the consent and assistance of other schools whose rights are also being trampled by conduct like this.

Bottom line -- "fair" is in the eye of the beholder. It is certainly permissible under the current structure. So is working with another school to mitigate and undermine it. Neither are really ethical. The alternative is to allow yourself to be a doormat blindly adhering to whatever one sided terms and conditions are shoved down your throat in order to be allowed to train for your chosen profession.
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Scholarship monies are incredibly valuable for schools - why should they be forced to wait on acceptees who are not 100% committed and excited to attend their school when there are plenty of other acceptees who would take such awards in a heartbeat?

It might be a different story if the acceptance offer was going to be rescinded in 3 days but that's not the case here (note: 3 day decision periods on job offers are common in other industries). Schools are on tight timelines to process and award finaid this time of year so I hardly fault them for wanting to be diligent in doing so.

There are many aspects of the application process that can be debated as fair/unfair. This isn't one of them.
 
spacecadetgull said:
Totally agree. My friend will be a month into reapplying before she hears back from her interview. Hopefully she will hear something when they release the ranked waitlist but who knows at this point 🙁
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That ranked WL can’t come soon enough 🙃
 
spacecadetgull said:
Totally agree. My friend will be a month into reapplying before she hears back from her interview. Hopefully she will hear something when they release the ranked waitlist but who knows at this point 🙁
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to be fair, they did tell every candidate after a certain date ahead of time that they would only be interviewing for a WL position at best.

edit: even still i do think end of june is excessive wait time.
 
spacecadetgull said:
Totally agree. My friend will be a month into reapplying before she hears back from her interview. Hopefully she will hear something when they release the ranked waitlist but who knows at this point 🙁
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Did this school experience some sort of doomsday anomaly in its application process this year or do they prefer to swim in quicksand?
 
wysdoc said:
The school is offering a scholarship and asking a student to decide by 3 days after the "narrow your schools to 1" April 30 date.
I don't see why you are so outraged about this.
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Because they are requiring a commitment 2 months prior to their published CTE date. The "narrow to one school" date allows you to remain on all WLs. This school is requiring the candidate to forfeit that right in return for money. I shouldn't have to forfeit any rights in return for money. That's why I'm outraged.

I get that they are offering a financial incentive, and that the candidate is under no obligation to take the money, but, still. $60K is a lot of money, and the candidate is supposed to have until July to allow for WL movement before being required to make a commitment. Scholarship money should not come with strings, like prematurely pulling yourself off of all WLs. Does your school place such conditions on scholarships, or do you give everyone a common deadline to make commitments?

TBH, Texas has a great, tightly integrated system that works very well and serves everyone's interests. AAMC should try to emulate it. Allowing schools to do things like this is just wrong. How would you like to be the dean of admissions at the school that is having its WL cherry picked like this? Would you just sit back and allow it to happen when you have no obligation to do so?
 
KnightDoc said:
Because they are requiring a commitment 2 months prior to their published CTE date. The "narrow to one school" date allows you to remain on all WLs. This school is requiring the candidate to forfeit that right in return for money. I shouldn't have to forfeit any rights in return for money. That's why I'm outraged.

I get that they are offering a financial incentive, and that the candidate is under no obligation to take the money, but, still. $60K is a lot of money, and the candidate is supposed to have until July to allow for WL movement before being required to make a commitment. Scholarship money should not come with strings, like prematurely pulling yourself off of all WLs. Does your school place such conditions on scholarships, or do you give everyone a common deadline to make commitments?

TBH, Texas has a great, tightly integrated system that works very well and serves everyone's interests. AAMC should try to emulate it. Allowing schools to do things like this is just wrong. How would you like to be the dean of admissions at the school that is having its WL cherry picked like this? Would you just sit back and allow it to happen when you have no obligation to do so?
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did the OP regarding this matter, ever actually state that they're required to pull off the WL in order to get the money? or does CTE automatically imply that you're off other WL's ? i always thought you could hold WL's even if you CTE ? either way, isnt the CTE due april 30th anyways? im confused
 
NoEyeEyeGuy said:
did the OP regarding this matter, ever actually state that they're required to pull off the WL in order to get the money? or does CTE automatically imply that you're off other WL's ? i always thought you could hold WL's even if you CTE ? either way, isnt the CTE due april 30th anyways? im confused
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CTE basically implies that you are committing to the school so it is expected for you to drop all other As and WLs. You are allowed to stay on WLs with PTE though
 
NoEyeEyeGuy said:
did the OP regarding this matter, ever actually state that they're required to pull off the WL in order to get the money? or does CTE automatically imply that you're off other WL's ? i always thought you could hold WL's even if you CTE ? either way, isnt the CTE due april 30th anyways? im confused
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yes they said in their email that once i accept this scholarship that means i am committing to their school, must do CTE and withdraw all other acceptances and waitlists

you can hold waitlists if you PTE at a school. a CTE is 100% i am going to ur school and will drop anything else. the CTE isn't due april 30th, its the FIRST day that you can do CTE
 
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Rockdude said:
Yes, I agree 100%. I can not imagine what it will be to go through this again, leave alone 2-3 or more times. Having said that those who did persevere [even if their cGPA and sGPA was low or had sub 500 MCAT a few times and had low 500s in repeat MCAT] were eventually admitted [based on SDN] and had received multiple admissions/interviews. So if you have the mental strength and social/family support, you can eventually make it.
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esp as they add more BS each and every year lmao...now more schools are doing SJT and snapshot is a thing....
 
NoEyeEyeGuy said:
im scared thinking that this time next year i might be repeating this process all over again. honestly just makes me respect the hell out of people who've gone through this 1 2 3 or more times. just crazy.
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Those are rookie numbers, you gotta pump those up. My 3rd cycle applying and currently sitting on 3 WLs and no As. Where my 3+ cyclers at?
 

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