Am I relegated to Caribbean status?

[mikeybeats]

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Hey guys..I've come across a lot of good information on here and thought I'd throw my hat into the ring for y'alls opinion.

The not-so-good: I have an overall GPA of 3.01. I'm not a great standardized test taker and assuming >30 on the MCAT is not likely. I do plan on studying like crazy and taking a prep class, but just wanting to be realistic.

The better: I had an upward trend after my sophmore year and finished my last 60 credits with a 3.48. I graduated in 2007 and my poor performance was ~10 years ago.

The saving grace? I needed to take 7 of my science pre-reqs over the past 18 months. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.8. My science GPA is a 3.6.

I think I clearly have demonstrated I can handle tougher classes and my poor performance was a result of immaturity and being a bone head (I got a D in health 101!). That said, I still notice the average cGPAs of MD and DO schools and I'm nowhere near any of them.

Guess my question is, can a strong sGPA and even stronger post-bacc GPA compensate for a weak cGPA that was the result of poor grades a decade ago? MCAT notwithstanding of course...

 

[MaximusMeridius]

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[TylerMcM]

You'll be fine. I had to explain my first semester of college also, but ADCOMs understand. I got a D in algebra but then got As in Precal, calculus, and biostatistics. 3.0 cGPA is low but not impossible. Try to get some test prep that also covers test taking strategies. That will help you in the long run, not just for the MCAT but for boards as well.

 

[coolingglasses]

No. Don't go to the Caribbean.

Unless you get like <23 on your MCAT. That combined with your GPA could be a problem.

 

[mikeybeats]

No. Don't go to the Caribbean.

Unless you get like <23 on your MCAT. That combined with your GPA could be a problem.

You think a 26/27 combined with my non-trad background and sgpa/post bacc would get me in to a DO school somewhere?

 

[XCourtSmash]

You think a 26/27 combined with my non-trad background and sgpa/post bacc would get me in to a DO school somewhere?

I think if you show maturity and dedication, and you apply early you should have a chance. Just study your butt off for the MCAT. For all you know you might blow it out of the water and get like a 40.

 

[411309]

You think a 26/27 combined with my non-trad background and sgpa/post bacc would get me in to a DO school somewhere?

yes, look at my MDapps for a little inspiration. I didnt have near your science gpa and my cum was only .25 higher.

 

[Goro]

The upward trend is a good thing.

The better: I had an upward trend after my sophmore year and finished my last 60 credits with a 3.48. I graduated in 2007 and my poor performance was ~10 years ago.

Grade replacement wil help you a lot!

The saving grace? I needed to take 7 of my science pre-reqs over the past 18 months. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.8. My science GPA is a 3.6.

That's as of right now. Think of where you'll be in 1-2 years.

That said, I still notice the average cGPAs of MD and DO schools and I'm nowhere near any of them.

YES!!!
Guess my question is, can a strong sGPA and even stronger post-bacc GPA compensate for a weak cGPA that was the result of poor grades a decade ago? MCAT notwithstanding of course

 

[Temperature101]

Hey guys..I've come across a lot of good information on here and thought I'd throw my hat into the ring for y'alls opinion.

The not-so-good: I have an overall GPA of 3.01. I'm not a great standardized test taker and assuming >30 on the MCAT is not likely. I do plan on studying like crazy and taking a prep class, but just wanting to be realistic.

The better: I had an upward trend after my sophmore year and finished my last 60 credits with a 3.48. I graduated in 2007 and my poor performance was ~10 years ago.

The saving grace? I needed to take 7 of my science pre-reqs over the past 18 months. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.8. My science GPA is a 3.6.

I think I clearly have demonstrated I can handle tougher classes and my poor performance was a result of immaturity and being a bone head (I got a D in health 101!). That said, I still notice the average cGPAs of MD and DO schools and I'm nowhere near any of them.

Guess my question is, can a strong sGPA and even stronger post-bacc GPA compensate for a weak cGPA that was the result of poor grades a decade ago? MCAT notwithstanding of course...

You have a shot if you can manage to get 25+ mcat and apply early and broadly...DO NOT GO CARIB.

 

[coolingglasses]

You think a 26/27 combined with my non-trad background and sgpa/post bacc would get me in to a DO school somewhere?

Good chance. Apply early when the next cycle starts. Like, have your personal statement and all your EC info ready to go when AACOMAS opens up for 2014.

 

[mikeybeats]

Too many too quote, so just a big thank you to all you guys. Think I'm definitely going to forget about Carib med schools, and focus on killing the MCAT and applying as early as physically possible next cycle. Appreciate all of the input.

 

[coolingglasses]

When I started my PB, my pre-med advisor started off telling me to consider it. By the end, she told me to forget about them.

 

[DocGodfather]

Hey guys..I've come across a lot of good information on here and thought I'd throw my hat into the ring for y'alls opinion.

The not-so-good: I have an overall GPA of 3.01. I'm not a great standardized test taker and assuming >30 on the MCAT is not likely. I do plan on studying like crazy and taking a prep class, but just wanting to be realistic.

The better: I had an upward trend after my sophmore year and finished my last 60 credits with a 3.48. I graduated in 2007 and my poor performance was ~10 years ago.

The saving grace? I needed to take 7 of my science pre-reqs over the past 18 months. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.8. My science GPA is a 3.6.

I think I clearly have demonstrated I can handle tougher classes and my poor performance was a result of immaturity and being a bone head (I got a D in health 101!). That said, I still notice the average cGPAs of MD and DO schools and I'm nowhere near any of them.

Guess my question is, can a strong sGPA and even stronger post-bacc GPA compensate for a weak cGPA that was the result of poor grades a decade ago? MCAT notwithstanding of course...

When I started taking all the prereqs, my CGPA is low as well, but I cranked it up and retook a number of C's I got when I was an undergraduate many years ago. I would recommend trying to squeeze in a couple retakes, and take some kind of prep course for the MCAT. If you can't afford it, then go for some of the MCAT study sets offered by Kaplan or TBR. If you get <25 on the MCAT, retake before deciding to go to the Carib.

 

[DocGodfather]

When I started my PB, my pre-med advisor started off telling me to consider it. By the end, she told me to forget about them.

Like I've said many times, pre-med "advisors" aren't the best people to look at for sound advice.

 

[coolingglasses]

Like I've said many times, pre-med "advisors" aren't the best people to look at for sound advice.

I've read some horror stories but mine seems to have taken really good care of me. I admit s/he had some slip-ups that were specific to AACOMAS questions... but I caught those by asking AACOMAS directly/double checking the instructions.

 

[Ransomed30]

You'll be fine!! Breathe. Have faith!! You worked this hard to get to this point. Your at the next crossroads. Study hard. My humble recommendation?? Take at least 5-15 MCAT practice electronic standardized exams every weekend at the time you have yours planned. Shoot for scoring an average 30 or so on the practice. www.aamc.org sells practice MCAT full length tests. There are other places also. Be ready to note your discrepancies, example: low GPA one semester or way back in the day. It's not a be all end all. So what if it takes you a little longer to get to point B? Dreams are worth struggling for and fighting for!! Keep pushing!!

 

[thepoopologist]

With the way things are going Caribbean schools shouldn't even be an option.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

With the way things are going Caribbean schools shouldn't even be an option.

Agree.

Now that AOA and ACGME residencies undergoing unification, DO grads will increasingly welcomed in MD residencies, driving most of FMG's and IMG's to extinction. Darwin calls it the survival of the fittest, but I call it justice.

 

[MDforMee]

Agree.

Now that AOA and ACGME residencies undergoing unification, DO grads will increasingly welcomed in MD residencies, driving most of FMG's and IMG's to extinction. Darwin calls it the survival of the fittest, but I call it justice.

Who, or what, is done justice by shutting out Caribbean grads?

 

[MedPR]

Thread is pointless without an actual MCAT score.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Who, or what, is done justice by shutting out Caribbean grads?

By preserving the remaining MD residency slots to DO students, who:

1. Attended American medical schools
2. Accumulated tons of "Federal" debts
3. Suffer significantly less cultural and lingual barriers
4. Are more likely to practice in the US after graduating

I'm not against allowing FMG's to practice in America, but with annual increase of US grads and the number of residency position remaining unchanged, I think preference should be given to DO applicants.

 

[MDforMee]

By preserving the remaining MD residency slots to DO students, who:

1. Attended American medical schools
2. Accumulated tons of "Federal" debts
3. Suffer significantly less cultural and lingual barriers
4. Are more likely to practice in the US after graduating

I'm not against allowing FMG's to practice in America, but with annual increase of US grads and the number of residency position remaining unchanged, I think preference should be given to DO applicants.

And I agree.

I wonder if someone is making money on IMGs placing into US residencies? There's got to be an incentive somewhere.

And to the op, no, you're not going to end up in the caribbean.

I have a 3.04 cumulative GPA without grade replacement. I had a few semesters of straight D's and F's in bonehead community college classes like english 1B, humanities, social psych, etc. However, I've had a 3.62 over 180 semester units of coursework since, through a lot of hard sciences. Take it from me, I've called pretty much every med school in the country asking about this, and no, it won't force me into the caribbean to play hide the banana with a capucha monkey. I have a 30R MCAT, which is borderline acceptable to most MD schools, and some DO schools.

I'm considering an SMP with a linkage to an MD med school, or applying at the end of this year (my senior year) to DO programs. I might go back East to a true SMP, but that remains to be seen, and it's a pretty big gamble that I'd preferably avoid.

With the recent news on AOA residencies gaining ACGME accreditation, there's no reason to suspect that the ACTUAL education you EARN after completing medical school (aka the education that you'll actually use) will be any less than anyone else's... in theory, at least.

My opinion: a worst case scenario in your case is that you end up in a lame location for DO school. But, if you do the work, you can place into a good residency. Who knows, you might like living in Pikeville.

This is my preference list (in order) for SMPs, which is probably what you should be considering, given that your cumulative GPA may get you red flagged, and assuming that you want to become an MD or a DO (but mostly an MD) ((I'm also a California resident, which is even more of a disadvantage)):

"1. SMP with linkage -- 40 grand, 1 year. Rosalind Franklin, EVMS, or maybe U of Cincinnati. No U of Toledo or NYMC thanks, but no thanks.
Pros: I get an MD after my name. Not much else.
Cons: Eastern Virginia. Cincinatti. Bumville. North Chicago might be alright. Might. These programs aren't guaranteed.

2. USC MGM. Apply DO beforehand, and MD at the end of the program. 40 grand, 1-2 years.
Pros: It's California, and "USC" does have a ring to it.
Cons: Global Medicine? Really? That sounds great, and I'd love to help, but I need to get into medical school first, guys. Don't scoff at me for wanting to take all your science electives. No one really knows if this is a real SMP, or not.

3. Tufts University MBS/MBA, or Boston University MAMS/MBA -- 60 grand, 2 years.
Pros: The degree is worth something, and might justify the extra time and money involved. It's Boston. Tufts is a good name, as is Boston University. Known programs.
Cons: It's Boston, and it ain't cheap. There are no guarantees, no linkages, and plenty of failure stories from California students that did well in these programs having 3.4/30's from University of California undergrads that didn't get any allopathic acceptances.

3. Tied for 3rd place is Drexel IMS Sacramento -- 30 grand, 2 years.
Pros: I'm from Sacramento, and it's cheap.
Cons: Some admissions reps think that video casting sucks. Others think the drexel name doesn't carry much weight.

4. Georgetown -- 45 grand, 2 years.
Pros: The name, program history, etc. It can get you into medical school... but who knows which one?
Cons: Just about everything else. It's a gamble, and it's the most expensive of them all. Did I mention that it's a gamble? The degree is worthless."

If I were you, I'd head over to the postbaccalaureate subforum on this website, and read the low GPA thread. There are stories a lot worse than yours in there, and many of them have been successful in getting into good programs.

 

[MedPR]

By preserving the remaining MD residency slots to DO students, who:

1. Attended American medical schools
2. Accumulated tons of "Federal" debts
3. Suffer significantly less cultural and lingual barriers
4. Are more likely to practice in the US after graduating

I'm not against allowing FMG's to practice in America, but with annual increase of US grads and the number of residency position remaining unchanged, I think preference should be given to DO applicants.

3 and 4, and perhaps 2 (idk how loans work for US residents who are FMGs) are irrelevant for US citizens.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

3 and 4, and perhaps 2 (idk how loans work for US residents who are FMGs) are irrelevant for US citizens.

Regardless, 2775 FMG's (non US IMG's) occupied MD pgy1 positions this year. That's 1000 positions more than those held by DO grads.

Many of those don't have educational debts, American resident status, or even a doctorate degree (ie. MBBS, aka straight from high school).

When it comes to IMG's, some went to med school without an MCAT, EC's, or even a bachelor's degree.

I guess, what I am trying to say here is that I don't think it's fair that DO graduates hold similar grounds to FMG's and IMG's when applying to allopathic residencies.

 

[mikeybeats]

I have close to the same GPA (3.1/3.6) and osteopathic schools have told me my GPA is not the problem. In my case, what I need to do is raise my MCAT from a 23.

This is very encouraging. Best of luck as you continue to raise your MCAT 👍

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Yes they can. I matriculated with a below average GPA. You should study your tail off for the MCAT because that will probably be the largest contributing factor.

Thats what it looks like OP. Good luck and I hope for the best!

 

[mdma223]

And I agree.


My opinion: a worst case scenario in your case is that you end up in a lame location for DO school. But, if you do the work, you can place into a good residency. Who knows, you might like living in Pikeville.

What is wrong with Pikeville?

 

[MedPR]

Regardless, 2775 FMG's (non US IMG's) occupied MD pgy1 positions this year. That's 1000 positions more than those held by DO grads.
Many of those don't have educational debts, American resident status, or even a doctorate degree (ie. MBBS, aka straight from high school).

When it comes to IMG's, some went to med school without an MCAT, EC's, or even a bachelor's degree.

I guess, what I am trying to say here is that I don't think it's fair that DO graduates hold similar grounds to FMG's and IMG's when applying to allopathic residencies.

That statistic doesn't say much. How many FMG applicants are there? How many DO applicants are there? You also have to remember that the AOA match occurs before the ACGME, so many of the would be DO applicants get plucked before the match even occurs.

Also, why is MCAT/ECs or even a bachelor's degree relevant? Once matriculated, ECs (besides research), MCAT, and your undergrad degree are meaningless even in US schools. They might as well not exist. Seems like your'e grasping at straws to rationalize your misplaced disdain towards FMGs.

Preference should go to the best applicants. It's commonly accepted on SDN that the most disadvantaged in the match are FMGs. If an FMG can shine so bright as to be a better applicant than a DO, more power to that applicant.

I want our healthcare system to employ the best physicians regardless of what country they completed their medical education. Frankly, we all should.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Agree.

Now that AOA and ACGME residencies undergoing unification, DO grads will increasingly welcomed in MD residencies, driving most of FMG's and IMG's to extinction. Darwin calls it the survival of the fittest, but I call it justice.

The unification is not what is going to drive the FMGs and IMGs to extinction it will be the increase in US MD and DO schools.

If there was no increase in the medical schools, the FMGs and IMGs will actually have a better shot at getting a residency with the unification. Why do I say this? It is because the FMG and IMGs will be taking the DO spots now.

 

[user3]

Hey guys..I've come across a lot of good information on here and thought I'd throw my hat into the ring for y'alls opinion.

The not-so-good: I have an overall GPA of 3.01. I'm not a great standardized test taker and assuming >30 on the MCAT is not likely. I do plan on studying like crazy and taking a prep class, but just wanting to be realistic.

The better: I had an upward trend after my sophmore year and finished my last 60 credits with a 3.48. I graduated in 2007 and my poor performance was ~10 years ago.

The saving grace? I needed to take 7 of my science pre-reqs over the past 18 months. My post-bacc GPA is a 3.8. My science GPA is a 3.6.

I think I clearly have demonstrated I can handle tougher classes and my poor performance was a result of immaturity and being a bone head (I got a D in health 101!). That said, I still notice the average cGPAs of MD and DO schools and I'm nowhere near any of them.

Guess my question is, can a strong sGPA and even stronger post-bacc GPA compensate for a weak cGPA that was the result of poor grades a decade ago? MCAT notwithstanding of course...

TBH, 3.00+/3.00+/23+ will give you a solid chance of getting into some (albeit most likely a low tier or brand new) DO school.

 

[MedPR]

TBH, 3.00+/3.00+/23+ will give you a solid chance of getting into some (albeit most likely a low tier or brand new) DO school.

Wrong.

 

[HalfListic]

TBH, 3.00+/3.00+/23+ will give you a solid chance of getting into some (albeit most likely a low tier or brand new) DO school.

no no

 

[IslandStyle808]

Regardless, 2775 FMG's (non US IMG's) occupied MD pgy1 positions this year. That's 1000 positions more than those held by DO grads.

Many of those don't have educational debts, American resident status, or even a doctorate degree (ie. MBBS, aka straight from high school).

When it comes to IMG's, some went to med school without an MCAT, EC's, or even a bachelor's degree.

I guess, what I am trying to say here is that I don't think it's fair that DO graduates hold similar grounds to FMG's and IMG's when applying to allopathic residencies.

You are looking at amounts and not percentages as MedPR has stated. The percentage of DO degree applicants who get an allopathic residence is around 70 percent (this is excluding the DO match data). The percentage of FMGs that match is 50 percent and the percentage of IMGs that mach is around 40.

The allopathic residencies look out for MD applicants first and foremost. It may not be fair but you could say the same for FMGs coming into the country. Even with the unification, the DO residencies will still prefer DO applicants over MD. There will always be a picking bias this is how the world works.

 

[GUH]

4. Georgetown -- 45 grand, 2 years.
Pros: The name, program history, etc. It can get you into medical school... but who knows which one?
Cons: Just about everything else. It's a gamble, and it's the most expensive of them all. Did I mention that it's a gamble? The degree is worthless."

Last time I checked, the Georgetown SMP was one year. They do or did have a 2-year Posbac Premed program but that's separate.

But maybe things have changed since 2010. You should double check.

 

[MedPR]

You are looking at amounts and not percentages as MedPR has stated. The percentage of DO degree applicants who get an allopathic residence is around 70 percent (this is excluding the DO match data). The percentage of FMGs that match is 50 percent and the percentage of IMGs that mach is around 40.

The allopathic residencies look out for MD applicants first and foremost. It may not be fair but you could say the same for FMGs coming into the country. Even with the unification, the DO residencies will still prefer DO applicants over MD. There will always be a picking bias this is how the world works.

Concur

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

 

[coolingglasses]

You think a 26/27 combined with my non-trad background and sgpa/post bacc would get me in to a DO school somewhere?

Yes, if you can put together a good secondary. My GPA is close to yours and I got a 27.

I'm doing well.

 

[user3]

Yes, if you can put together a good secondary. My GPA is close to yours and I got a 27.

I'm doing well.

While I'm sure your secondaries were well written, I'm not inclined to say that is what got you so many interviews--rather, its likely because your numbers are more competitive than you and most people think they are.

 

[KnuxNole]

TBH, 3.00+/3.00+/23+ will give you a solid chance of getting into some (albeit most likely a low tier or brand new) DO school.

That's probably true for the Caribbean schools.

 

[MedPR]

While I'm sure your secondaries were well written, I'm not inclined to say that is what got you so many interviews--rather, its likely because your numbers are more competitive than you and most people think they are.

No offense to coolingglasses, but 3.09/3.12/27 isn't very competitive.

 

[coolingglasses]

No offense to coolingglasses, but 3.09/3.12/27 isn't very competitive.

I agree. The unpredictable scattering of rejections and IIs is telling.

 

[user3]

No offense to coolingglasses, but 3.09/3.12/27 isn't very competitive.

yet 6 interviews...

 

[as1212559]

There is a serious disconnect here. 3.09/3.12/27 IS NOT the whole story. These are not competitive numbers for DO schools (the 27 is nice). coolingglasses must be a boss somewhere else in his application for his 6 interviews to happen. If you throw a hundred 3.0/3.0/25 people at a school, I bet only the 10 or so with superb all around applications will get any sort of serious look.

Underdogs get in every year. Underdogs are not the norm. Don't strive to be an underdog, because we are striving to not be underdogs. Aim for a 3.4+/26-27+ unless you want your application cycle to be a bizarre smattering of love and hate from DO schools.

In my humble opinion.

 

[MedPR]

Wut

yet 6 interviews...

And yet stats aren't the only thing on the app. He has obviously done something (be it upward trend, ECs, solid essays, etc) to make himself competitive.

 

[MedPR]

There is a serious disconnect here. 3.09/3.12/27 IS NOT the whole story. These are not competitive numbers for DO schools (the 27 is nice). coolingglasses must be a boss somewhere else in his application for his 6 interviews to happen. If you throw a hundred 3.0/3.0/25 people at a school, I bet only the 10 or so with superb all around applications will get any sort of serious look.

Underdogs get in every year. Underdogs are not the norm. Don't strive to be an underdog, because we are striving to not be underdogs. Aim for a 3.4+/26-27+ unless you want your application cycle to be a bizarre smattering of love and hate from DO schools.

In my humble opinion.

👍

 

[coolingglasses]

There is a serious disconnect here. 3.09/3.12/27 IS NOT the whole story. These are not competitive numbers for DO schools (the 27 is nice). coolingglasses must be a boss somewhere else in his application for his 6 interviews to happen. If you throw a hundred 3.0/3.0/25 people at a school, I bet only the 10 or so with superb all around applications will get any sort of serious look.

Underdogs get in every year. Underdogs are not the norm. Don't strive to be an underdog, because we are striving to not be underdogs. Aim for a 3.4+/26-27+ unless you want your application cycle to be a bizarre smattering of love and hate from DO schools.

In my humble opinion.

My 27 wasn't even special at KCOM, and one of my interviewers told me so. I have no idea what exactly it was they liked about my application, but it sure as hell wasn't my grades.

edit: this isn't me being down on myself. I'm very proud of my achievements outside of my academics. maybe it shows.

 

[gtace]

4. Georgetown -- 45 grand, 2 years.
Pros: The name, program history, etc. It can get you into medical school... but who knows which one?
Cons: Just about everything else. It's a gamble, and it's the most expensive of them all. Did I mention that it's a gamble? The degree is worthless."

The Georgetown SMP is actually only 10 mos.... and I think every person I know from the program got into quality medical schools, so it definitely works. Furthermore, the degree (M.S. Physiology & Biophysics) is actually very valuable whether or not you choose to pursue medicine. Having already taken the first year medical courses, I also feel really prepared for med school next year.

I will concede that the program is very expensive... this is the downside of any top SMP... Tufts/BU will set you back quite a bit as well. It is essentially another year tuition of medical school.