CHOOSE YOUR OWWN II - Game Thread

[Animal Midwife]

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It is now Day 3.​

 

[WildZoo]

Why?

If our reads are opposite we can't both be wrong...

 

[supershorty]

If our reads are opposite we can't both be wrong...

I don't think she was saying you're both wrong on everything though. I read it as you're both wrong on some of your reads, but on different people.

 

[WildZoo]

Well I guess I have a negative reading card on Dina. And idk if I believe vis faked those quotes last night, though they were a bit delayed after all the posts about yeeting her so I guess it's possible.

Hmm. Little bit lost right now.

 

[WildZoo]

I don't think she was saying you're both wrong on everything though. I read it as you're both wrong on some of your reads, but on different people.

Yeah I probably was just thinking about it wrong. Likely that I'm wrong about most things anyway

 

[supershorty]

I'm not sure how I feel about sunny gunning to get a vote on Vissy right away, but that might just be me being leery of putting votes down fast in a game with maj.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Day 3 Yeet Tally
Vis (1) - sunshine

1/9
yeet close in ~35 hours

 

[WildZoo]

Village-
supershorty: Seems like her typical village meta. Stuck in a few bad tunnels but I think she’s village.
vetschoolsletmechangemycolorplease: I haven’t seen anything wolfy, and the only way I think she would pick scum was if she had no other choice so I’m inclined to village read her until I see something that really stands out as off. Nothing quite feels off yet, but her overall thread presence has been lacking and I don’t like the vote for me, so I might waver on this as we move forward.
WildZoo: Coming across as village Dubz. I haven’t seen anything wolfy. I would expect scum Dubz to try and drive the narrative more and be more power wolfing than what we’re seeing here. Likely village I think.
cubsrule4e: Reading him as village. I get his frustration with the chaos thing. Feels like he’s approving that and the game from a village mindset. Him reevaluating Dubz too is something I see him doing more as a villager than as scum.

Neutral-
sunshinefl: She hasn’t posted a whole lot but of what she has posted I’m not getting a lot of pings. Village lean but still in my neutrals until we get more.
alleycat03: Nothing stands out as terribly wolfy, but that’s not necessarily indicative of anything. She was the first on the Stagg vote. I wonder if Wonder hadn’t revealed if she would have been able to quietly hide her vote on a sketchy player and fly under the radar. Again nothing major sticks out but I don’t want to move her out of the neutrals just yet.
Dinashadow: Nothing has moved her up to make me feel more village about her, but she hasn’t done anything more that’s pinged me enough to move her down into scum just yet.

Scum-
Coopah: Super not helpful with game solving. There’s making a few jokes on thread while playing the game and then there’s this. People have said they think Coop would be likely to take a scum role if given the option. The weird scum calls on me and Sunny with not just no reasoning but a refusal to discuss reasoning was notable. Nothing has really changed this cycle.
Chaostrodon: Cubs tunnel just feels off. Not sure what to make of the notable difference in tone and play style this game but it does exist. The possibility that the affiliation reveal was a ploy to get village cred and find out which roles scum didn’t need to be concerned about wigs me out too.
Viscernable: Been feeling super off this cycle. It’s hard to put my finger on but there’s a way she’s engaging and answering questions that has me concerned.

Zenge's last reads list. And he had moved Dina into scum leans but uh...yeah now to find dina's

 

[WildZoo]

I'm thinking about it

I'm at the point where I need to throw out all my early reads and start over I think

...well

Town-leaning:
shorty, vis, schools (?)

Neutral:
sunny, alley, zenge, chaos

Scum-leaning
WZ, Coop, cubs

Some random thoughts:

Less sure about schools, I think she would prefer to take a town role, but there's a chance she wasn't offered one

Not sure what to make of chaos, his play at the beginning of the game seemed very town and not something scum would do, but I'm feeling paranoid

Not getting any zenge village vibes yet which is a little concerning

Dubz play has seemed off since yesterday, like I'm not getting any scum-hunting vibes from her. Her wonder vote and then comment about people following her onto the vote was weird.

I've seen coop play similarly to how she is now, but I remember her being a little more serious about the game. It's been a long time since I played with her though.

I have the same thoughts about cubs as I did yesterday. I said yesterday I was was scum reading stagg and cubs for similar reasons and now that stagg has flipped non-town I'm keeping cubs in my scum leans for now.

Well this was all the way on Saturday and from skimming looks like she had moved coop a bit more neutral, not sure if anyone else's position had changed, though I don't quite thing she was as town on vis based on some of her later posts yesterday...idk will have to read more closely later

 

[supershorty]

...well

Well this was all the way on Saturday and from skimming looks like she had moved coop a bit more neutral, not sure if anyone else's position had changed, though I don't quite thing she was as town on vis based on some of her later posts yesterday...idk will have to read more closely later

As far as I can tell, she only mentioned Vis by name twice (at least, I'm only hitting 2 in the Threadloom search), but Dina didn't have a ton of posts, so I'm going to go through them now and see what else she said about her that didn't mention her by name.

 

[supershorty]

@WildZoo, how do you feel about sunny?

@sunshinefl, what made you vote Zenge the first day but then back off the second? It's interesting because it's the opposite of how I felt about him - I had him at the top of my village-neutrals D1, and then felt like he was getting sketchier as the game went on.

 

[sunshinefl]

I'm not sure how I feel about sunny gunning to get a vote on Vissy right away, but that might just be me being leery of putting votes down fast in a game with maj.

Why? I voted for her yesterday and she remains my top choice. Plus I’m planting a flag in the sand, instead of no one voting for a long time. Plus I’m busy so it ensures I have a vote in worst case scenario.

@WildZoo, how do you feel about sunny?

@sunshinefl, what made you vote Zenge the first day but then back off the second? It's interesting because it's the opposite of how I felt about him - I had him at the top of my village-neutrals D1, and then felt like he was getting sketchier as the game went on.

I thought he was acting weird, but you were so over-exaggerating with him that it made him seem more reasonable by comparison.

 

[WildZoo]

@WildZoo, how do you feel about sunny?

She's currently still in my wolfy neutrals. Historically zenge has been better at reading her than I have though, so that is giving me pause.

 

[WildZoo]

If I can create some time later I was going to go read through Chaos's posts in flushy's time heist game, since he was scum there

 

[supershorty]

Why? I voted for her yesterday and she remains my top choice. Plus I’m planting a flag in the sand, instead of no one voting for a long time. Plus I’m busy so it ensures I have a vote in worst case scenario.

I thought he was acting weird, but you were so over-exaggerating with him that it made him seem more reasonable by comparison.

But you put your vote on Vis more than 24 hours before Zenge and I started really going at it (or I moved my vote to him). I'm just wondering what made you switch your most sus read from him to her, because the arguing started after that. There was some light sass, but I was still on Dubz when you voted.

Granted, I haven't gone back through your posts yet and maybe it's in there.

 

[sunshinefl]

But you put your vote on Vis more than 24 hours before Zenge and I started really going at it (or I moved my vote to him). I'm just wondering what made you switch your most sus read from him to her, because the arguing started after that. There was some light sass, but I was still on Dubz when you voted.

Granted, I haven't gone back through your posts yet and maybe it's in there.

Well I didn’t journal about it, but even before your interactions with zenge downgraded my scum concerns, Visc on her own surpassed him with pinging me. And I felt like there wasn’t much chatter there vs with zenge from the thread, so I really wanted to put a spotlight there.

 

[WildZoo]

Can we yeet vis yet? Let's yeet vis.

10:13pm

Let’s not, because I have no interest in again spending 48 hours trying to defend myself while no one listens because they’ve already made up their minds about me because I had the audacity to not magically know exactly who else is village. Especially not after just rereading from Bioshock.

From my mod PM at EOD:




Obnoxious that Z fell on his no-self-prez sword with the goal of avoiding having an unproductive cycle of everyone tunneling on a villager and now that’s exactly what’s happening

11:14pm

Let's hope scum kills some scum tonight

Liked this post at 10:49pm, so she had already seen my earlier one by that time. So had at least 25 minutes to work on that response that she posted at 11:14. Dang. Was hoping it would be a quicker turnaround so I could be more sure those quotes weren't faked.

 

[supershorty]

Okay, I went back and pulled Dina's posts that talk about Vissy. I also pulled some of her posts talking about cubs because her read on him evolved over time too.

yeet cubs

His confusion and reluctance to reveal his aff role is feeling manufactured to me

I'm at work for most of today so I'll be on later

lol I'm not voting for you for being busy today. It's about the way you were questioning chaos' idea about it felt off to me. It started to feel more and more manufactured (as I mentioned). I interpret that as reluctance to role reveal because you have something to hide or that you're attempting to throw shade/confusion on the idea and hoping others agree and not want to reveal so you don't have to either

Town-leaning:
shorty, vis, schools (?)

Neutral:
sunny, alley, zenge, chaos

Scum-leaning
WZ, Coop, cubs

Some random thoughts:

Less sure about schools, I think she would prefer to take a town role, but there's a chance she wasn't offered one

Not sure what to make of chaos, his play at the beginning of the game seemed very town and not something scum would do, but I'm feeling paranoid

Not getting any zenge village vibes yet which is a little concerning

Dubz play has seemed off since yesterday, like I'm not getting any scum-hunting vibes from her. Her wonder vote and then comment about people following her onto the vote was weird.

I've seen coop play similarly to how she is now, but I remember her being a little more serious about the game. It's been a long time since I played with her though.

I have the same thoughts about cubs as I did yesterday. I said yesterday I was was scum reading stagg and cubs for similar reasons and now that stagg has flipped non-town I'm keeping cubs in my scum leans for now.

Dubz already had quoted this reads list, but here it is again.

I liked her contributions yesterday. It felt like she was scum hunting and I was agreeing with her posts. I do think she is floundering a bit today under the pressure. I don't know what to make of the fact that she didn't seem aware Wonder was NK'd. I guess I'm village reading her less than I was this morning, but not scum reading her.

This is in response to Zenge asking why she had Vis in her town leans.

Also, I would say cubs has moved slightly less scummy to me. There's still some things that are bothering me, most recently it's his zenge read and zenge's slight defense of him earlier in the game, but I would want to flip zenge first before I came back to that thought.

Making a note of her cubs read shifting.

Oh wait @supershorty I missed your question about vis regarding her seeming to "flounder" yesterday. I was referring to her interactions with coop & dubz starting around post #641

where she seemed to not know wonder was NK'd and then progressing into dubz questioning her about giving cubs scum points for something Vis acknowledged as a joke. I wasn't following her logic during the exchange like I had been most of the game, hence why it gave me the impression of "floundering", plus the whole Wonder thing.

I'm kinda in agreement with her about zenge defending you and seeing some slight buddying. I'm just not sure if it means you guys are in a pack together. (NOTE: "you" here is referring to cubs)

I'm not really seeing the heavy sus she's currently getting tbh

This is about Vis

So I'm not really seeing a TON of change in her Vis read over the course of that. I think it's interesting that Dina and Zenge were opposite on their reads of her, but I don't think I'm putting a ton of stock in that since Zenge was also scum reading Dina.

 

[supershorty]

Well I didn’t journal about it, but even before your interactions with zenge downgraded my scum concerns, Visc on her own surpassed him with pinging me. And I felt like there wasn’t much chatter there vs with zenge from the thread, so I really wanted to put a spotlight there.

I'm going to go through sunny's posts now to see if she's ever addressed WHAT was pinging her, because I don't remember it, but I was focused on other things yesterday and might have skimmed over it.

 

[WildZoo]

The other thing that bugs me about this post is the focus on her zenge vote, which was not, as far as i saw, a reason that anyone gave for scum-reading her

Let’s not, because I have no interest in again spending 48 hours trying to defend myself while no one listens because they’ve already made up their minds about me because I had the audacity to not magically know exactly who else is village. Especially not after just rereading from Bioshock.

From my mod PM at EOD:




Obnoxious that Z fell on his no-self-prez sword with the goal of avoiding having an unproductive cycle of everyone tunneling on a villager and now that’s exactly what’s happening

 

[sunshinefl]

I'm going to go through sunny's posts now to see if she's ever addressed WHAT was pinging her, because I don't remember it, but I was focused on other things yesterday and might have skimmed over it.

I did answer. Admittedly it’s flimsy, but I don’t have any hard evidence of anything at all.

 

[sunshinefl]

The other thing that bugs me about this post is the focus on her zenge vote, which was not, as far as i saw, a reason that anyone gave for scum-reading her

Darn it dubz stop making so much sense.

(But maybe you are just rival factions and all is well in my reads world)

 

[WildZoo]

Darn it dubz stop making so much sense.

(But maybe you are just rival factions and all is well in my reads world)

Oh sunny. Whatever helps you sleep at night 😉

 

[WildZoo]

Okay, I went back and pulled Dina's posts that talk about Vissy. I also pulled some of her posts talking about cubs because her read on him evolved over time too.





Dubz already had quoted this reads list, but here it is again.


This is in response to Zenge asking why she had Vis in her town leans.


Making a note of her cubs read shifting.


This is about Vis

So I'm not really seeing a TON of change in her Vis read over the course of that. I think it's interesting that Dina and Zenge were opposite on their reads of her, but I don't think I'm putting a ton of stock in that since Zenge was also scum reading Dina.

Ah ok I only remembered the floundering bit of the comment and not the whole thing. Guess it probably hadn't shifted much.

 

[WildZoo]

Have I mentioned that multiball games in particular kind of suck for me because I rely a lot on vote progression and interaction analysis and individual ISOs do almost nothing for me?

 

[supershorty]

Have I mentioned that multiball games in particular kind of suck for me because I rely a lot on vote progression and interaction analysis and individual ISOs do almost nothing for me?

I feel this in my soul.

 

[WildZoo]

If wonder was right that minimum town was 50%, which would be 7 players in this game, with 4 already dead worst case scenario we'd be down to 3...I don't think I want to live in that reality

 

[supershorty]

sunny ISO:

Spoiler

They could pick softer abilities simply for the fact that they think it “clears” them. Like right here in your post. Now I’m kinda side eyeing you for not seeing that.

This was when sunny and Zenge had that philosophical disagreement about whether scum would discard powerful abilities to try and get village cred. I still don't think it's as viable of a strategy as keeping a role like ninja or strongman and using it to end the game faster, but I don't feel like it's wolfy to argue sunny's side of it. And sunny sussing Zenge on D1 is NAI for both of them.

Interesting, because this seems pretty simple and you’re usually thinking of elaborate 52368 step plans

Reading back through, this feels a little weird because I feel like Zenge's approach of "scum keeps the powerful role, scum ends the game faster" is simpler than "discard the powerful role and try to get village cred for it," and when he's had convoluted ideas in the past, he's gotten really sussed for it, regardless of his affiliation. This almost feels like she's trying to shade him for NOT having a crazy complex idea.

@sunshinefl, it's hard for me to tell reading the quote, is the "this" you were referring to your thought about discarding strong roles for village cred, or is it referring to Zenge's thought?

Chaos brings in a whole different play style from other forums. He often says weird stuff lol

To borrow a line from Cray, sunny's tone seems different from previous games I've played with her, but I noticed a tonal shift in RvB and I suspect it's more because she's super busy and not as invested in the game as a result.

Yeet zenge

Then she yeets Zenge, which, based on interactions to this point is just based on the previous philosophical talk.

I dont have a lot of leanings yet and the ones I do I dont have evidence for, they're just feelings. Ive been playing more and more that way lately, let alone this chaotic game with multiple factions.

Roster


1. @supershorty town?


3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease


4. @Viscernable concerned


5. @sunshinefl TOWN!!!!!


6. @alleycat03


7. @WildZoo concerned


9. @Zenge142 concerned


10. @Dinashadow okay


11. @Coopah odd


13. @Chaostrodon


14. @cubsrule4e okay

Here's the first feels list.

Yeet Visc

just a feeling. Not strong enough to try to persuade others, and Im willing to re-assess as the day goes on.

And then this comes out of nowhere. Now, she did have Vis listed as "concerned" in her reads list, but there's no mention of why. I have to admit it gives me a bit of pause when someone comes into the game, doesn't put in as much effort as I'm used to seeing from them (I know sunny is busy and that is at least part of it, I'm not discounting that), and then puts their vote on 2 people who are historically easy misyeets (Zenge D1, Vis D2) with minimal reasoning given and few interactions to help give context. She does give some reasoning on Vis after I ask (below).

Her posts mainly include: jumping on Stagg which is the easy thing to do, and random things that look like she's saying something but its not really... like about making AM angry, roles that no one has, fighting with chaos about math, etc.

But I'm not sure I fully follow it because this doesn't seem like a fully accurate representation of Vissy's posts to this point. The jumping on Stagg comment feels a little off (although I do think Vissy voting him right out of the gate because she thought he'd be more likely to pick scum felt strange at the time, but it turned out to be right AND wasn't what started the wagon on him anyway. Vis wasn't even on his vote at EOD.). Vissy has made some joke posts here and there, but they haven't been the majority of her content, and the bolded is really oversimplifying the disagreement that she and Chaos were having.

I explained it in the very quote you posted. He’s handing out town cred I don’t agree with and don’t think he would if he was town.

She says this in response to Coop saying she didn't understand the Zenge side-eye, and I think it's kinda weird. When you go back to the post she's talking about, it's the philosophical discussion that I quoted earlier in this post, and she never actually verbalizes that this is her apparent issue with Zenge's take on it. It seemed like her disagreement with him was on him not coming up with some complex, crazy idea. I don't think it's impossible that this is actually how she was feeling, but it seems odd that she never actually said that this was her issue with it.

Well so far I’m mostly neutral to village read except for you and coop, who I already ranked in the “concerned” category, which is the strongest I have on anyone yet.

I did think it was funny that I was reconsidering you since you were seeing the Visc sus, but then you somehow slid me in there without an explanation so LOL

Yet now Zenge is included in "mostly neutral to village read" since she's replying to Dubz here, with no explanation of why that read has changed. This is right around the time that Zenge replied to Coop thinking she was me, if anyone wants context of what point of squabbling this was. Edited to correct this because she's talking about herself here. As noted in a post I made later today, this doesn't really fit with sunny's play in other games when she gets scum-leaned, especially by one of her scum-leans, but not using reactivity to determine wolfiness.

Well dang who is zenge talking to since no one wants to claim it lmaooo

I remember thinking this was a little strange since it was pretty obvious what was going on, but it didn't ping me. Just seemed weird.

Hey @supershorty remember when you said you were pressuring dubz and she said don’t bother I don’t get pressured, and then posted a bunch like she was pressured? Yeah me too.

I really think that my voting for Dubz had little to nothing to do with her increased activity, but I also knew that Dubz was IRL driving and stuff on Friday.

I think he is, but he’s not really going that off the rails lmaoooo

Now Zenge is apparently back in sunny's scum leans since this was replying to me saying that if he wasn't scum, I had no idea what he was doing this game.

Weirdly, shorty seems to be overreacting to zenge which is making me feel slightly worse about shorty and slightly better about zenge. But then again there are multiple factions so maybe I should just feel worse about shorty

This feels like sunny knew he was going to flip village and was setting up to sus me for going after him. I wasn't overreacting, and there are plenty of examples of me being sassy at people who I thought were wolfing and caught. I will say that I was nitpicking at everything that felt hedgy or off, but do keep in mind that when Zenge is scum, I tend to die VERY early (N2 in one case, and N0(!!) in the other. I was very excited thinking I might have caught him before he could off me.

Plus he and I were laughing so much IRL sitting across from each other on the couch lightning posting at each other... it was fun and fed the energy.

LOL was that subtle shade?

But here you go


Roster

1. @supershorty okay

Overreacting to zenge

3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease okay

4. @Viscernable concerned

5. @sunshinefl TOWN!!!!!

6. @alleycat03 concerned

7. @WildZoo concerned

9. @Zenge142 sus

10. @Dinashadow okay

11. @Coopah odd

13. @Chaostrodon okay

14. @cubsrule4e okay

The first sentence still feels weird. Asking if it's subtle shade for calling her previous feels list a feels list? I don't feel like I can call these reads lists when she's not classifying people as town or not town (other than herself). Also noting that Zenge is now "sus," which I assume is the worst thing on here, but she kept her vote on Vissy, who was listed as "concerned." So in the time between her last feels list and this one, Zenge went from "concerned" to "sus," while she was stating that she was feeling slightly BETTER about him because of how he and I were interacting, and Vissy stayed at "concerned" the whole time, but her vote is on Vissy.

That doesn't feel great. Particularly the part I bolded.

Concerned is very slightly scum side of neutral. She just largely hasn’t done anything villagey.

And.... Okay is like very slightly town side of neutral for me. He started out kinda involved but then hasn’t done much.

And then there's this which is like ... everyone is basically in neutral except Zenge who is sus, but who she's not voting for, and is also feeling better about, but moved him to being sus? Pleasy then questioned her on this, and we see a really interesting turnaround with her ranked list:

That’s correct. I really don’t have strong feelings yet. Could be apathy due to residency fatigue, or could be because of the multiple factions makes it harder.

But here is my ranked list:
5. @sunshinefl TOWN!!!!!

3. @vetschoolsletmeinplease okay

1. @supershorty okay

Overreacting to zenge

10. @Dinashadow okay

14. @cubsrule4e okay

13. @Chaostrodon okay

6. @alleycat03 concerned

7. @WildZoo concerned

11. @Coopah odd

9. @Zenge142 concerned

4. @Viscernable sus

So NOW, Zenge has changed to concerned, and Vissy has moved down to sus.

Well because as I said, because shorty seemed to be exaggerating everything zenge said. Like I was watching as a third party the twisting.

And if zenge really is village I’m going to move shorty down.

I'm really glad that I'm doing this ISO because of what I noted above in bold.

This is not village alley. I really don’t see that. This only made me feel worse about her.

Dina and Dubz immediately asked her about this and she replied with a quote wall, which I'm going to link because quotes within quotes don't show up correctly. But I'm also going to quote part of it.

Feels like she’s unwilling to see what a lot of us are seeing and just piling on him instead

Suddenly "a lot of us" are seeing Zenge as not scummy, which I don't feel accurately reflected the game state.

Alley I like you as a person so your sad reacts are hurting my heart.

but I really don’t think you are village.

This feels a little off and maybe slightly pockety.

Why? I voted for her yesterday and she remains my top choice. Plus I’m planting a flag in the sand, instead of no one voting for a long time. Plus I’m busy so it ensures I have a vote in worst case scenario.

I thought he was acting weird, but you were so over-exaggerating with him that it made him seem more reasonable by comparison.

But you put your vote on Vis more than 24 hours before Zenge and I started really going at it (or I moved my vote to him). I'm just wondering what made you switch your most sus read from him to her, because the arguing started after that. There was some light sass, but I was still on Dubz when you voted.

Granted, I haven't gone back through your posts yet and maybe it's in there.

Well I didn’t journal about it, but even before your interactions with zenge downgraded my scum concerns, Visc on her own surpassed him with pinging me. And I felt like there wasn’t much chatter there vs with zenge from the thread, so I really wanted to put a spotlight there.

As mentioned above, this is not reflected in her feels lists when you look at timing. And the bottom-most post feels a little like backpedaling when I called her out on the timing issue.

I did answer. Admittedly it’s flimsy, but I don’t have any hard evidence of anything at all.

This is true.

Hmmm. Can't say I came out of that feeling great about sunny. I'd like to hear others' thoughts though.
Remember that maj is at 5 votes today.

 

[supershorty]

I'm planning to ISO Vissy and probably alley if I have time, but I've got a few hours of meetings now, so those will come later this afternoon.

 

[Coopah]

Yeah I probably was just thinking about it wrong. Likely that I'm wrong about most things anyway

Even if they weren't faked. So what? This is multiball and she needs the other scum faction to die.

 

[sunshinefl]

sunny ISO:

Spoiler

This was when sunny and Zenge had that philosophical disagreement about whether scum would discard powerful abilities to try and get village cred. I still don't think it's as viable of a strategy as keeping a role like ninja or strongman and using it to end the game faster, but I don't feel like it's wolfy to argue sunny's side of it. And sunny sussing Zenge on D1 is NAI for both of them.

Reading back through, this feels a little weird because I feel like Zenge's approach of "scum keeps the powerful role, scum ends the game faster" is simpler than "discard the powerful role and try to get village cred for it," and when he's had convoluted ideas in the past, he's gotten really sussed for it, regardless of his affiliation. This almost feels like she's trying to shade him for NOT having a crazy complex idea.

@sunshinefl, it's hard for me to tell reading the quote, is the "this" you were referring to your thought about discarding strong roles for village cred, or is it referring to Zenge's thought?


To borrow a line from Cray, sunny's tone seems different from previous games I've played with her, but I noticed a tonal shift in RvB and I suspect it's more because she's super busy and not as invested in the game as a result.


Then she yeets Zenge, which, based on interactions to this point is just based on the previous philosophical talk.


Here's the first feels list.


And then this comes out of nowhere. Now, she did have Vis listed as "concerned" in her reads list, but there's no mention of why. I have to admit it gives me a bit of pause when someone comes into the game, doesn't put in as much effort as I'm used to seeing from them (I know sunny is busy and that is at least part of it, I'm not discounting that), and then puts their vote on 2 people who are historically easy misyeets (Zenge D1, Vis D2) with minimal reasoning given and few interactions to help give context. She does give some reasoning on Vis after I ask (below).


But I'm not sure I fully follow it because this doesn't seem like a fully accurate representation of Vissy's posts to this point. The jumping on Stagg comment feels a little off (although I do think Vissy voting him right out of the gate because she thought he'd be more likely to pick scum felt strange at the time, but it turned out to be right AND wasn't what started the wagon on him anyway. Vis wasn't even on his vote at EOD.). Vissy has made some joke posts here and there, but they haven't been the majority of her content, and the bolded is really oversimplifying the disagreement that she and Chaos were having.


She says this in response to Coop saying she didn't understand the Zenge side-eye, and I think it's kinda weird. When you go back to the post she's talking about, it's the philosophical discussion that I quoted earlier in this post, and she never actually verbalizes that this is her apparent issue with Zenge's take on it. It seemed like her disagreement with him was on him not coming up with some complex, crazy idea. I don't think it's impossible that this is actually how she was feeling, but it seems odd that she never actually said that this was her issue with it.


Yet now Zenge is included in "mostly neutral to village read" since she's replying to Dubz here, with no explanation of why that read has changed. This is right around the time that Zenge replied to Coop thinking she was me, if anyone wants context of what point of squabbling this was.


I remember thinking this was a little strange since it was pretty obvious what was going on, but it didn't ping me. Just seemed weird.


I really think that my voting for Dubz had little to nothing to do with her increased activity, but I also knew that Dubz was IRL driving and stuff on Friday.


Now Zenge is apparently back in sunny's scum leans since this was replying to me saying that if he wasn't scum, I had no idea what he was doing this game.


This feels like sunny knew he was going to flip village and was setting up to sus me for going after him. I wasn't overreacting, and there are plenty of examples of me being sassy at people who I thought were wolfing and caught. I will say that I was nitpicking at everything that felt hedgy or off, but do keep in mind that when Zenge is scum, I tend to die VERY early (N2 in one case, and N0(!!) in the other. I was very excited thinking I might have caught him before he could off me.

Plus he and I were laughing so much IRL sitting across from each other on the couch lightning posting at each other... it was fun and fed the energy.


The first sentence still feels weird. Asking if it's subtle shade for calling her previous feels list a feels list? I don't feel like I can call these reads lists when she's not classifying people as town or not town (other than herself). Also noting that Zenge is now "sus," which I assume is the worst thing on here, but she kept her vote on Vissy, who was listed as "concerned." So in the time between her last feels list and this one, Zenge went from "concerned" to "sus," while she was stating that she was feeling slightly BETTER about him because of how he and I were interacting, and Vissy stayed at "concerned" the whole time, but her vote is on Vissy.

That doesn't feel great. Particularly the part I bolded.


And then there's this which is like ... everyone is basically in neutral except Zenge who is sus, but who she's not voting for, and is also feeling better about, but moved him to being sus? Pleasy then questioned her on this, and we see a really interesting turnaround with her ranked list:


So NOW, Zenge has changed to concerned, and Vissy has moved down to sus.


I'm really glad that I'm doing this ISO because of what I noted above in bold.


Dina and Dubz immediately asked her about this and she replied with a quote wall, which I'm going to link because quotes within quotes don't show up correctly. But I'm also going to quote part of it.


Suddenly "a lot of us" are seeing Zenge as not scummy, which I don't feel accurately reflected the game state.


This feels a little off and maybe slightly pockety.




As mentioned above, this is not reflected in her feels lists when you look at timing. And the bottom-most post feels a little like backpedaling when I called her out on the timing issue.


This is true.

Hmmm. Can't say I came out of that feeling great about sunny. I'd like to hear others' thoughts though.
Remember that maj is at 5 votes today.

This will be a lot to respond to and try to format a response to a comment to a quote, so that will have to be later.

but at no point was zenge neutral to village, I was talking about myself in others’ eyes there.

 

[supershorty]

This will be a lot to respond to and try to format a response to a comment to a quote, so that will have to be later.

but at no point was zenge neutral to village, I was talking about myself in others’ eyes there.

Oh, I see. My mistake.

You have been more reactive in the past to someone scum reading you (actually, especially if they're already one of your scum reads), but like I said earlier in the game, I don't want to use your reactivity or lack thereof as much of a barometer.

 

[Coopah]

sunny ISO:

Spoiler

This was when sunny and Zenge had that philosophical disagreement about whether scum would discard powerful abilities to try and get village cred. I still don't think it's as viable of a strategy as keeping a role like ninja or strongman and using it to end the game faster, but I don't feel like it's wolfy to argue sunny's side of it. And sunny sussing Zenge on D1 is NAI for both of them.

Reading back through, this feels a little weird because I feel like Zenge's approach of "scum keeps the powerful role, scum ends the game faster" is simpler than "discard the powerful role and try to get village cred for it," and when he's had convoluted ideas in the past, he's gotten really sussed for it, regardless of his affiliation. This almost feels like she's trying to shade him for NOT having a crazy complex idea.

@sunshinefl, it's hard for me to tell reading the quote, is the "this" you were referring to your thought about discarding strong roles for village cred, or is it referring to Zenge's thought?


To borrow a line from Cray, sunny's tone seems different from previous games I've played with her, but I noticed a tonal shift in RvB and I suspect it's more because she's super busy and not as invested in the game as a result.


Then she yeets Zenge, which, based on interactions to this point is just based on the previous philosophical talk.


Here's the first feels list.


And then this comes out of nowhere. Now, she did have Vis listed as "concerned" in her reads list, but there's no mention of why. I have to admit it gives me a bit of pause when someone comes into the game, doesn't put in as much effort as I'm used to seeing from them (I know sunny is busy and that is at least part of it, I'm not discounting that), and then puts their vote on 2 people who are historically easy misyeets (Zenge D1, Vis D2) with minimal reasoning given and few interactions to help give context. She does give some reasoning on Vis after I ask (below).


But I'm not sure I fully follow it because this doesn't seem like a fully accurate representation of Vissy's posts to this point. The jumping on Stagg comment feels a little off (although I do think Vissy voting him right out of the gate because she thought he'd be more likely to pick scum felt strange at the time, but it turned out to be right AND wasn't what started the wagon on him anyway. Vis wasn't even on his vote at EOD.). Vissy has made some joke posts here and there, but they haven't been the majority of her content, and the bolded is really oversimplifying the disagreement that she and Chaos were having.


She says this in response to Coop saying she didn't understand the Zenge side-eye, and I think it's kinda weird. When you go back to the post she's talking about, it's the philosophical discussion that I quoted earlier in this post, and she never actually verbalizes that this is her apparent issue with Zenge's take on it. It seemed like her disagreement with him was on him not coming up with some complex, crazy idea. I don't think it's impossible that this is actually how she was feeling, but it seems odd that she never actually said that this was her issue with it.


Yet now Zenge is included in "mostly neutral to village read" since she's replying to Dubz here, with no explanation of why that read has changed. This is right around the time that Zenge replied to Coop thinking she was me, if anyone wants context of what point of squabbling this was.


I remember thinking this was a little strange since it was pretty obvious what was going on, but it didn't ping me. Just seemed weird.


I really think that my voting for Dubz had little to nothing to do with her increased activity, but I also knew that Dubz was IRL driving and stuff on Friday.


Now Zenge is apparently back in sunny's scum leans since this was replying to me saying that if he wasn't scum, I had no idea what he was doing this game.


This feels like sunny knew he was going to flip village and was setting up to sus me for going after him. I wasn't overreacting, and there are plenty of examples of me being sassy at people who I thought were wolfing and caught. I will say that I was nitpicking at everything that felt hedgy or off, but do keep in mind that when Zenge is scum, I tend to die VERY early (N2 in one case, and N0(!!) in the other. I was very excited thinking I might have caught him before he could off me.

Plus he and I were laughing so much IRL sitting across from each other on the couch lightning posting at each other... it was fun and fed the energy.


The first sentence still feels weird. Asking if it's subtle shade for calling her previous feels list a feels list? I don't feel like I can call these reads lists when she's not classifying people as town or not town (other than herself). Also noting that Zenge is now "sus," which I assume is the worst thing on here, but she kept her vote on Vissy, who was listed as "concerned." So in the time between her last feels list and this one, Zenge went from "concerned" to "sus," while she was stating that she was feeling slightly BETTER about him because of how he and I were interacting, and Vissy stayed at "concerned" the whole time, but her vote is on Vissy.

That doesn't feel great. Particularly the part I bolded.


And then there's this which is like ... everyone is basically in neutral except Zenge who is sus, but who she's not voting for, and is also feeling better about, but moved him to being sus? Pleasy then questioned her on this, and we see a really interesting turnaround with her ranked list:


So NOW, Zenge has changed to concerned, and Vissy has moved down to sus.


I'm really glad that I'm doing this ISO because of what I noted above in bold.


Dina and Dubz immediately asked her about this and she replied with a quote wall, which I'm going to link because quotes within quotes don't show up correctly. But I'm also going to quote part of it.


Suddenly "a lot of us" are seeing Zenge as not scummy, which I don't feel accurately reflected the game state.


This feels a little off and maybe slightly pockety.




As mentioned above, this is not reflected in her feels lists when you look at timing. And the bottom-most post feels a little like backpedaling when I called her out on the timing issue.


This is true.

Hmmm. Can't say I came out of that feeling great about sunny. I'd like to hear others' thoughts though.
Remember that maj is at 5 votes today.

Ok I actually read (most like 90%) of this and yeah sunny feels scummy. And I know she's busy but wolves can be busy too.

 

[WildZoo]

Even if they weren't faked. So what? This is multiball and she needs the other scum faction to die.

The phrasiing of at least one of them is pretty specifically geared towards the interactions with her and zenge being v/v.

 

[Coopah]

The phrasiing of at least one of them is pretty specifically geared towards the interactions with her and zenge being v/v.

Ok but as you've stated, we don't know if they're real.

 

[sunshinefl]

Ok I actually read (most like 90%) of this and yeah sunny feels scummy. And I know she's busy but wolves can be busy too.

Everyone keeps saying that, but also simultaneously judging me for my level of activity.

reminder: I am meeting participation requirements.

also: I am the only one who planted a vote.

so I’m really sick of this tired mantra of there’s not enough to go on with me, or that me not living and breathing WW means I’m scum.

 

[sunshinefl]

I

Oh, I see. My mistake.

You have been more reactive in the past to someone scum reading you (actually, especially if they're already one of your scum reads), but like I said earlier in the game, I don't want to use your reactivity or lack thereof as much of a barometer.

And like I said, I reacted at an appropriate level to someone who was playing like a clown deciding to randomly call me scum out of nowhere.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

Sorry , I was busy yday, But how did Zenge get in the lead out of nowhere

i mean it wasnt out of nowhere for anyone else. that kinda discounts everything that happened when you werent here lol

Priority as of now is something like :

Cubz > Dubz > Vetschools > Coopah/Alley > Sunshine > Dina > Shorty > Vis

Vis started the whole thing. Shorty's push on Zenge seems genuine to me.

Please and Alley , not sure

im not understanding how visc is your top village read then lol

The other thing that bugs me about this post is the focus on her zenge vote, which was not, as far as i saw, a reason that anyone gave for scum-reading her

this is an interesting point. like kinda defending herself in what she can anticipate being called out for instead of addressing the real reasons. that doesn't look great

 

[supershorty]

Everyone keeps saying that, but also simultaneously judging me for my level of activity.

reminder: I am meeting participation requirements.

so I’m really sick of this tired mantra of there’s not enough to go on with me, or that me not living and breathing WW means I’m scum.

Participation requirements aren't there as a guarantee that others will feel they have enough info to come to a read on someone who is meeting them.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

so I’m really sick of this tired mantra of there’s not enough to go on with me, or that me not living and breathing WW means I’m scum.

but for me it's not even the amount of time you're spending on the thread. it's what you do while you're here, and it's just not matching what I've seen village sunny do while here in the past

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

sunny ISO:

Spoiler

This was when sunny and Zenge had that philosophical disagreement about whether scum would discard powerful abilities to try and get village cred. I still don't think it's as viable of a strategy as keeping a role like ninja or strongman and using it to end the game faster, but I don't feel like it's wolfy to argue sunny's side of it. And sunny sussing Zenge on D1 is NAI for both of them.

Reading back through, this feels a little weird because I feel like Zenge's approach of "scum keeps the powerful role, scum ends the game faster" is simpler than "discard the powerful role and try to get village cred for it," and when he's had convoluted ideas in the past, he's gotten really sussed for it, regardless of his affiliation. This almost feels like she's trying to shade him for NOT having a crazy complex idea.

@sunshinefl, it's hard for me to tell reading the quote, is the "this" you were referring to your thought about discarding strong roles for village cred, or is it referring to Zenge's thought?


To borrow a line from Cray, sunny's tone seems different from previous games I've played with her, but I noticed a tonal shift in RvB and I suspect it's more because she's super busy and not as invested in the game as a result.


Then she yeets Zenge, which, based on interactions to this point is just based on the previous philosophical talk.


Here's the first feels list.


And then this comes out of nowhere. Now, she did have Vis listed as "concerned" in her reads list, but there's no mention of why. I have to admit it gives me a bit of pause when someone comes into the game, doesn't put in as much effort as I'm used to seeing from them (I know sunny is busy and that is at least part of it, I'm not discounting that), and then puts their vote on 2 people who are historically easy misyeets (Zenge D1, Vis D2) with minimal reasoning given and few interactions to help give context. She does give some reasoning on Vis after I ask (below).


But I'm not sure I fully follow it because this doesn't seem like a fully accurate representation of Vissy's posts to this point. The jumping on Stagg comment feels a little off (although I do think Vissy voting him right out of the gate because she thought he'd be more likely to pick scum felt strange at the time, but it turned out to be right AND wasn't what started the wagon on him anyway. Vis wasn't even on his vote at EOD.). Vissy has made some joke posts here and there, but they haven't been the majority of her content, and the bolded is really oversimplifying the disagreement that she and Chaos were having.


She says this in response to Coop saying she didn't understand the Zenge side-eye, and I think it's kinda weird. When you go back to the post she's talking about, it's the philosophical discussion that I quoted earlier in this post, and she never actually verbalizes that this is her apparent issue with Zenge's take on it. It seemed like her disagreement with him was on him not coming up with some complex, crazy idea. I don't think it's impossible that this is actually how she was feeling, but it seems odd that she never actually said that this was her issue with it.


Yet now Zenge is included in "mostly neutral to village read" since she's replying to Dubz here, with no explanation of why that read has changed. This is right around the time that Zenge replied to Coop thinking she was me, if anyone wants context of what point of squabbling this was. Edited to correct this because she's talking about herself here. As noted in a post I made later today, this doesn't really fit with sunny's play in other games when she gets scum-leaned, especially by one of her scum-leans, but not using reactivity to determine wolfiness.


I remember thinking this was a little strange since it was pretty obvious what was going on, but it didn't ping me. Just seemed weird.


I really think that my voting for Dubz had little to nothing to do with her increased activity, but I also knew that Dubz was IRL driving and stuff on Friday.


Now Zenge is apparently back in sunny's scum leans since this was replying to me saying that if he wasn't scum, I had no idea what he was doing this game.


This feels like sunny knew he was going to flip village and was setting up to sus me for going after him. I wasn't overreacting, and there are plenty of examples of me being sassy at people who I thought were wolfing and caught. I will say that I was nitpicking at everything that felt hedgy or off, but do keep in mind that when Zenge is scum, I tend to die VERY early (N2 in one case, and N0(!!) in the other. I was very excited thinking I might have caught him before he could off me.

Plus he and I were laughing so much IRL sitting across from each other on the couch lightning posting at each other... it was fun and fed the energy.


The first sentence still feels weird. Asking if it's subtle shade for calling her previous feels list a feels list? I don't feel like I can call these reads lists when she's not classifying people as town or not town (other than herself). Also noting that Zenge is now "sus," which I assume is the worst thing on here, but she kept her vote on Vissy, who was listed as "concerned." So in the time between her last feels list and this one, Zenge went from "concerned" to "sus," while she was stating that she was feeling slightly BETTER about him because of how he and I were interacting, and Vissy stayed at "concerned" the whole time, but her vote is on Vissy.

That doesn't feel great. Particularly the part I bolded.


And then there's this which is like ... everyone is basically in neutral except Zenge who is sus, but who she's not voting for, and is also feeling better about, but moved him to being sus? Pleasy then questioned her on this, and we see a really interesting turnaround with her ranked list:


So NOW, Zenge has changed to concerned, and Vissy has moved down to sus.


I'm really glad that I'm doing this ISO because of what I noted above in bold.


Dina and Dubz immediately asked her about this and she replied with a quote wall, which I'm going to link because quotes within quotes don't show up correctly. But I'm also going to quote part of it.


Suddenly "a lot of us" are seeing Zenge as not scummy, which I don't feel accurately reflected the game state.


This feels a little off and maybe slightly pockety.




As mentioned above, this is not reflected in her feels lists when you look at timing. And the bottom-most post feels a little like backpedaling when I called her out on the timing issue.


This is true.

Hmmm. Can't say I came out of that feeling great about sunny. I'd like to hear others' thoughts though.
Remember that maj is at 5 votes today.

looking at shorty's post made me notice something that kinda furthers my point about sunnys content v time spent on the thread
in the past im pretty sure sunny's reads have had at least brief explanations of people in them.
and while that is certainly not much on its own, I think its interesting in the context of the other things and doesn't help sunny's case

 

[supershorty]

looking at shorty's post made me notice something that kinda furthers my point about sunnys content v time spent on the thread
in the past im pretty sure sunny's reads have had at least brief explanations of people in them.
and while that is certainly not much on its own, I think its interesting in the context of the other things and doesn't help sunny's case

I went back to look at RvB because I thought I remembered that she did similarly styled reads in that game, and she did, but you're right, there was a small explanation with many of them.

Here's an example from RvB:

Blue team notes so far


Blue Team:

1. @Animal Midwife sus

Being twisty about “first”, being twisty with Samac about saying zenge hadn’t posted yet even though it was obvious what she meant, misunderstanding strategy about wolves and opposite team voting (not mechanics, but WAGONOMICS!!!!)

3. @Dinashadow

4. @alleycat03 okay

Agreeing with posts

5. @Aprilthearab sus

Slipped in “let me live I’ve never lived as a villager past day 2”, *BLUE LEADER*

6. @samac

Begging to be PM hub, chaotic, arguing with Cray about past games

7. @Zenge142 okay

Not attacking me, agreeing with posts

8. @Crayola227 Okay

Really good post about why it’s bad for village to all PM with the same person

9. @vetschoolsletmeinplease

Hmm. I don't know how much weight I want to put on that, but I'm making a note of it.

 

[cubsrule4e]

Just got out of surgery to check night results but I just happened to see I’m still at the top of chaos list of 9 players for absolutely no other reason than the one (incorrect) accusation he’s been going with the whole game. 😆

 

[Coopah]

Everyone keeps saying that, but also simultaneously judging me for my level of activity.

reminder: I am meeting participation requirements.

also: I am the only one who planted a vote.

so I’m really sick of this tired mantra of there’s not enough to go on with me, or that me not living and breathing WW means I’m scum.

Um no, that's clearly not what I'm saying otherwise that'd be mad hypocritical. I was responding to shorty who was giving you extra leeway because you've been busy and it's all well and good to consider you've been busy but it's not ok to give you village points for it. Just a reminder.

The 36 HOUR day cycle just started. Why should you be getting village cred for voting?

For that last point, get over it. Might not be nice but everyone is going to be all over you always for everything. If you don't like it don't play. That's why I stopped WW because ppl are ridiculous and it stopped being fun. Just something to consider.

 

[Coopah]

Just got out of surgery to check night results but I just happened to see I’m still at the top of chaos list of 9 players for absolutely no other reason than the one (incorrect) accusation he’s been going with the whole game. 😆

I don't know why but this post gives me feels that cubs and chaos are on the same faction

 

[sunshinefl]

Um no, that's clearly not what I'm saying otherwise that'd be mad hypocritical. I was responding to shorty who was giving you extra leeway because you've been busy and it's all well and good to consider you've been busy but it's not ok to give you village points for it. Just a reminder.

The 36 HOUR day cycle just started. Why should you be getting village cred for voting?

For that last point, get over it. Might not be nice but everyone is going to be all over you always for everything. If you don't like it don't play. That's why I stopped WW because ppl are ridiculous and it stopped being fun. Just something to consider.

If you know it’s ridiculous to expect dissertations all the time and that it doesn’t make it fun and is NAI, why are you feeding into that and telling me to just get over it? How about be part of a culture that doesn’t demand that and then wonder why people don’t keep playing?

 

[WildZoo]

Ok but as you've stated, we don't know if they're real.

I know. Thats why I was trying to see how quickly it was posted. If it had been a few minutes then I would have believed them, and it would have been pretty good evidence that vis is village. As it is, could go either way. I posted all that to signify that I'm throwing them out of my vis analysis since they could have been faked.

 

[Coopah]

If you know it’s ridiculous to expect dissertations all the time and that it doesn’t make it fun and is NAI, why are you feeding into that and telling me to just get over it? How about be part of a culture that doesn’t demand that and then wonder why people don’t keep playing?

I'm not expecting dissertations I'm saying people find you sketchy and are going to say wolves are busy too. That's the part I'm saying to get over. People will call you sketchy no matter what you do. Gotta deal with it. Because that's the game

 

[Viscernable]

...well

Well this was all the way on Saturday and from skimming looks like she had moved coop a bit more neutral, not sure if anyone else's position had changed, though I don't quite thing she was as town on vis based on some of her later posts yesterday...idk will have to read more closely later

I do feel her death looks good for you since I know you particularly like to kill people just before their reads might turn from favourable to unfavourable, not the other way around.

Caveat of there probably being multiple scum factions, and that NK analysis is always very limited by WIFOM, but I continue to feel fine about Dubz

10:13pm

11:14pm

Liked this post at 10:49pm, so she had already seen my earlier one by that time. So had at least 25 minutes to work on that response that she posted at 11:14. Dang. Was hoping it would be a quicker turnaround so I could be more sure those quotes weren't faked.

I wanted to check with the mods that I could post them first.

 

[Chaostrodon]

Still reading. I really dont like chaos coming right out of the gate first thing trying to control the thread and spread of info. Also while Im not totally convinced the mixing of terminologies is intentional to be misleading, there is definitely that possibility. He keeps talking about what scum would do vs village etc., like people have never played the game before and cant form their own opinions. And if he is scum, thats a deflection tactic to take attention off of him and follow along with what hes saying about someone else. Maybe its just play style, but based on gut, which is what im going on D1, im moving here for the moment.

unyeet alley
yeet chaos

So this above is the first post that I didnt understand .

He says Im trying to control the spread of info while also not liking me asking peoples alignments (thats me looking for info , thats like the opposite of controlling spread of info)

So I make this post below , asking him to explain more.

This comes across as a bit manufactured.

Are you sring me bc I asked people to claim their alignments? Thats just something people do in this theme.

>>He keeps talking about what scum would do vs village etc

How else am I supposed to explain my reads?

>> Chaos, who has been driving/kinda controlling everything since zero hour
>> chaos coming right out of the gate first thing trying to control

Who or what exactly have I controlled so far?

He had not responded to this post and when someone asked me to give a readlist , I said I was slightly scumleaning Cubs coz I thought his read on me looked fishy.
To that he responded with this:

Ah right. The typical retaliatory wolf read any time I give a less than favorable opinion about someone. At least Im used to it by now.

So I ask him to answer my questions as he hadnt done that yet.

You could try answering my questions and explaining your perspective if me wolf reading you bothers you

And this is what I get :

I cant find any other post between me asking the questions and this post below

It do not understand how this answers my questions. I asked him why he thinks Im controlling and why he feels like I keep talking as if other people dont know how to play or something and he responds it with just "your playstyle is aggressive". This confuses me further , bc at that point I still never had any strong scumreads and havent gone on the offense yet. What does it even mean to be "aggressive"? .

Ive explained my perspective on your play at least 3 times. Its pretty legitimate. I even noted it could just be your playstyle that Im encountering for the first time but it just comes off as very aggressive. Others have pointed this out as well, I think shorty even just said your tone is usually villagey but arent usually this active.

And this is what I felt about it , It felt like he was giving some random adjectives.

All that I see in your posts on my play is - you are just assigning me a bunch of adjectives.

So far you have called me controlling , condescending and now aggressive but havent given proper reasons why you feel that way.
I do not understand what would you think Im any of that , hence why your read on me seems heavily manufactured to me , seems like just a bunch of negative words strung together

No response to the this post after that and then I vote him.

And Dubz said something like , Cubs was sus of me bc I said my alignment was Vigilante instead of Town Vigilante.

And then this happens. It looks like he is agreeing with dubz?

Im aggressive and controlling coz the post I made about my alignment was confusing??

lol get over it. Ive explained it 64 times. Then dubz even explained it again for you. And youre clearly not even at the top of my list right now. But the fact that you cant seem to let it go/continue to pretend you dont understand makes me feel like theres something to what I said, and maybe makes you feel like you have to keep "Defending" a point I made early-mid D1?

At this point , multiple people were like "Cubs has explained but Chaos keeps pushing"

Well , Im still not clear on why Cubs thinks Im aggressive or controlling.
Is it bc I asked people to claim alignments? I asked nicely tho and didnt really pressure anyone to claim it.