Class of 2022...how you doin'?

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I have a few things I need to add/change to my schedule a bit too... but not sure what else to add at this point lol.
Wait, we add them in our signatures?! This noob needs help on that :laugh:

SnowJ said:
MN doesnt have schedules yet either, but we should next week maybe??
They did just announce that they will be graded Pass/No Pass though, which Im pretty excited about
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I think (really hope) ours are Pass/No Pass too, that's super exciting!!!!
 
WildZoo said:
I'm glad more schools are turning to pass/no pass type models for clinics grading. It never made sense to have letter grades for something so subjective.
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The subjectivity drives me insane. I had a rotation where the faculty graded me high and the residents apparently though I was pretty darn mediocre. This was a rotation where I was working with faculty/residents simultaneously so it's not like they saw different sides of me.

I'm at the point where I don't care what my grades are but I'm just kind of looking at this like... there should not be that level of discrepancy. It makes no sense.
 
PippyPony said:
Meanwhile I'm over here with an Honors/Pass/Needs Improvement/Fail system, and annoyed because clinics don't boost my class rank

Grass is always greener I guess? Haha
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The only scheme I can kind of think of is one where they still give you the totally arbitrary grades on rotations that count toward rank, but class those grades into a P/F system so GPA itself isn't really altered. Still not totally fair to people who kill it on the clinic floor but weren't so great in the didactics, but does protect a little from the random hits from people who were on with you for two hours and graded you like ****
 
PippyPony said:
Meanwhile I'm over here with an Honors/Pass/Needs Improvement/Fail system, and annoyed because clinics don't boost my class rank

Grass is always greener I guess? Haha
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They did a retrospective statistical study on that here before deciding to change our system and determined that there are very few people for whom clinics makes a significant change in class rank. The mean difference from 3rd to 4th year was basically 0 (0.18) with a standard deviation of 6.08 spots. The vast majority of people who had their rank move up only had it change by 4 spots or fewer. Something like 10 out of 400+ student dataset had it go up by more than that. Maybe not exactly transferrable to other schools, but in case numbers help you feel better lol

In any case I think a 4 tier system like yours was in our original set of options but they decided it wasn't enough of a shift from the 5-tier grading scale and went with 3 instead (Honors/Pass/Fail).
 
PippyPony said:
Well, in my ideal fantasy world of grades, this just shouldn't happen at all.
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Yeah, and it's just unfortunately something hard to control for and hard to address. Especially when people are getting graded by different clinicians on the same service because different people were on during their rotations. We have one ECC person who gives everyone all As pretty much so long as you aren't a complete mess and one who gives everyone straight Bs no matter how well they do, for example
 
We're likely getting our block assignments in late February/early March so I'm low-key jealous of all these schedules :laugh:
 
I was cruising around VIRMP today to get an idea of the internships out there to save me time when I legit try and decide where to apply next year. I didn't realize how many programs are no longer accepting Canadian applicants/sponsoring a TN Visa. I'm sad, a few of the places I had always been really interested in going I won't be able to apply to now. :shrug:
 
Amanasoul said:
We're likely getting our block assignments in late February/early March so I'm low-key jealous of all these schedules :laugh:
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If it makes you feel any better our class is in the same boat. We get the booklet of what rotations are being offered end of Feb/beginning of March and then draft rotations in March at some point after that. :happy:

I'm loving seeing all of the schedules the rest of you guys have posted though; it's still crazy to think fourth year is so close. Feels like we just started yesterday. :laugh:
 
finnickthedog said:
Is it COVID related or just they decided to stop accepting Canadian applicants in general?
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NCSU clarified it was suspended this year because of Covid, so that one might be back to normal in the future.
2 others said it was because they didn't want to deal with the time/hassle of figuring out Visa paperwork. (AMC specifically said it wasn't worth it for a 1 year program. I didn't look but I suspect they still let Canadians apply for residency positions)
A few others just didn't give reasons, but I'm assuming they just don't want to deal with Visas lol.

5/18 of the programs I looked at today I couldn't apply to.

That being said, I'm curious now about Covid. I'm going to cross reference against the info in the intern surveys to see if any programs changed it this year in particular. ETA: Nevermind, that part of the program info wasn't in the intern survey version.
 
finnickthedog said:
Is it COVID related or just they decided to stop accepting Canadian applicants in general?
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So, in a weirdly convenient timing I forgot that our school had a tuition town hall tonight. When I logged on it was still 15 minutes to start so I ended up just chatting with our Associate Dean Academic on WebEx until people showed up. I asked him about it and he said they have definitely noticed it and have been talking pretty intensively about it. Part of it was definitely Covid, but I guess another part of it has to do with politics. I don't know any of the specifics or what policy this was, but I guess there was something this year saying that foreign workers have to get paid an average wage for their profession (to try and cut down people hiring foreign workers so that they have super cheap labour costs). It's potentially causing issues since depending on interpretation, veterinary interns would be considered "foreign worker veterinarians" and be expected to get paid an average vet salary (which is obviously much higher than an intern salary).
 
FrostySparrow said:
I have a few things I need to add/change to my schedule a bit too... but not sure what else to add at this point lol.
Wait, we add them in our signatures?! This noob needs help on that :laugh:



I think (really hope) ours are Pass/No Pass too, that's super exciting!!!!
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60A6DE4A-CA23-4646-845D-75B1EBBC22DA.jpeg
 
TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo said:
So, in a weirdly convenient timing I forgot that our school had a tuition town hall tonight. When I logged on it was still 15 minutes to start so I ended up just chatting with our Associate Dean Academic on WebEx until people showed up. I asked him about it and he said they have definitely noticed it and have been talking pretty intensively about it. Part of it was definitely Covid, but I guess another part of it has to do with politics. I don't know any of the specifics or what policy this was, but I guess there was something this year saying that foreign workers have to get paid an average wage for their profession (to try and cut down people hiring foreign workers so that they have super cheap labour costs). It's potentially causing issues since depending on interpretation, veterinary interns would be considered "foreign worker veterinarians" and be expected to get paid an average vet salary (which is obviously much higher than an intern salary).
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I definitely recall @JaynaAli saying something about this. So they’d have to fork out 70k for a foreign intern vs 30k for a US intern.

I feel like there might’ve also been something about the time it takes for the visa paperwork and stuff which would cause them to start a lot later, but I may be mixing that up with something else.
 
SkiOtter said:
I definitely recall @JaynaAli saying something about this. So they’d have to fork out 70k for a foreign intern vs 30k for a US intern.

I feel like there might’ve also been something about the time it takes for the visa paperwork and stuff which would cause them to start a lot later, but I may be mixing that up with something else.
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I mean Visa paperwork is definitely a PITA. The starting late I think was more of a this-year thing because of Covid and the border shutting down. I think normally the Canadian and Mexican interns can start on time pretty easily, since the TN Visas are easier to get sorted out than the other versions (as per my roommate when she was getting hers-I don’t have any personal experience with it). I don’t blame any of the programs for not wanting to deal with it when there are already so many qualified US applicants, it’s just disappointing.
 
TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo said:
I mean Visa paperwork is definitely a PITA. The starting late I think was more of a this-year thing because of Covid and the border shutting down. I think normally the Canadian and Mexican interns can start on time pretty easily, since the TN Visas are easier to get sorted out than the other versions (as per my roommate when she was getting hers-I don’t have any personal experience with it). I don’t blame any of the programs for not wanting to deal with it when there are already so many qualified US applicants, it’s just disappointing.
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It’s definitely disappointing 🙁
 
Ski is right, I’ve posted about this before but Fernie is also correct that the issues haven’t really applied to Canadians and Mexicans because they are eligible for other visas. But to recap the other countries for those following along...

Disclaimer: I am not an international applicant, this is just what played out when I was a resident, when we were choosing candidates, and because my residentmate was from another country on an H1b.

Anyway.

Yes, a lot of it was due to “prevailing wage”requirements for other governments. Like Brazil (I chose a country at random, idk if this actually applies to Brazil) says “hey US people, this Brazilian citizen is a veterinarian and they went to school a reeeeeallly loooong time for that. You can’t take advantage of our citizens like that and under pay them...you have to pay them a fair wage for someone with that degree. Aka as much as you would any other normal vet.” An excuse of “but we always pay interns and residents these ****ty wages” doesn’t fly any more. When I was a resident I know there were residents making 10,000 more than me because they were international. (And as a resident, that’s like 33% more.) That isn’t fair to the US residents. And rather than raise everyone’s salaries to a “normal” level, they just decided not to take any nonCanada/Mexico applicants. (But we did get a few thousand dollar raise to even the playing field between the US citizens and the noncitizens. And the noncitizens making more didn’t get on call fees, travel money, money for books etc than we US citizens got. They did try to even it out as much as they could.)

There’s also added issues of timing for visas and the match. It’s apparently very very difficult to get a J1 or H1b visa completed between match day in February and the usual start date in June/July. After my residency school decided not to accept foreign applicants we tried to get a waiver for our pathology program because path isn’t through the match. We picked a candidate in very early November to start the following July. They still said no. When I was in vet school the pathologists accepted a guy from Japan...it took over a year and a half for his visa to be approved. Meanwhile they didn’t have a resident for over 6 months.

It definitely sucks and I think programs could miss out on very qualified applicants. Especially if covid is making it to where Canadians can’t come to the US either.
 
JaynaAli said:
Ski is right, I’ve posted about this before but Fernie is also correct that the issues haven’t really applied to Canadians and Mexicans because they are eligible for other visas. But to recap the other countries for those following along...

Disclaimer: I am not an international applicant, this is just what played out when I was a resident, when we were choosing candidates, and because my residentmate was from another country on an H1b.

Anyway.

Yes, a lot of it was due to “prevailing wage”requirements for other governments. Like Brazil (I chose a country at random, idk if this actually applies to Brazil) says “hey US people, this Brazilian citizen is a veterinarian and they went to school a reeeeeallly loooong time for that. You can’t take advantage of our citizens like that and under pay them...you have to pay them a fair wage for someone with that degree. Aka as much as you would any other normal vet.” An excuse of “but we always pay interns and residents these ****ty wages” doesn’t fly any more. When I was a resident I know there were residents making 10,000 more than me because they were international. (And as a resident, that’s like 33% more.) That isn’t fair to the US residents. And rather than raise everyone’s salaries to a “normal” level, they just decided not to take any nonCanada/Mexico applicants. (But we did get a few thousand dollar raise to even the playing field between the US citizens and the noncitizens. And the noncitizens making more didn’t get on call fees, travel money, money for books etc than we US citizens got. They did try to even it out as much as they could.)

There’s also added issues of timing for visas and the match. It’s apparently very very difficult to get a J1 or H1b visa completed between match day in February and the usual start date in June/July. After my residency school decided not to accept foreign applicants we tried to get a waiver for our pathology program because path isn’t through the match. We picked a candidate in very early November to start the following July. They still said no. When I was in vet school the pathologists accepted a guy from Japan...it took over a year and a half for his visa to be approved. Meanwhile they didn’t have a resident for over 6 months.

It definitely sucks and I think programs could miss out on very qualified applicants. Especially if covid is making it to where Canadians can’t come to the US either.
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Yeah that’s what I was remembering. I couldn’t remember all the details of it so just tagged you instead :laugh:
 
SnowJ said:
They maximized our externships on purpose. I have an extra because I was originally on our spay/neuter service but it closed, so now I have to fill one of those with another surgery rotation
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I wonder if the weeks doggos, Barkley, and I are going to ASPCA in Asheville for HQHVSN still have availability if you’re looking for spay neuter 👀

Edit: we’re going to be there 10/25/21 to 11/5/21 if it fits in your schedule if you wanted to check their availability. I’ve also convinced one of my classmates to come too :laugh:
 
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SkiOtter said:
I wonder if the weeks doggos, Barkley, and I are going to ASPCA in Asheville for HQHVSN still have availability if you’re looking for spay neuter 👀

Edit: we’re going to be there 10/25/21 to 11/5/21 if it fits in your schedule if you wanted to check their availability. I’ve also convinced one of my classmates to come too :laugh:
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*Schedules day trip to Asheville*
 
WildZoo said:
*Schedules day trip to Asheville*
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Honestly half the internships I'm applying to would send me up there too and I think it'd be funny if I ended up over there at the same time lol

Although I'd likely be fairly proficient in S/N with very similar techniques by November, but I ain't gonna complain lol
 
SkiOtter said:
I wonder if the weeks doggos, Barkley, and I are going to ASPCA in Asheville for HQHVSN still have availability if you’re looking for spay neuter 👀

Edit: we’re going to be there 10/25/21 to 11/5/21 if it fits in your schedule if you wanted to check their availability. I’ve also convinced one of my classmates to come too :laugh:
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Aw, sadly that overlaps with SAM. We've been told we are pretty much not allowed to move around required rotations without extenuating circumstances
 
SkiOtter said:
I wonder if the weeks doggos, Barkley, and I are going to ASPCA in Asheville for HQHVSN still have availability if you’re looking for spay neuter 👀

Edit: we’re going to be there 10/25/21 to 11/5/21 if it fits in your schedule if you wanted to check their availability. I’ve also convinced one of my classmates to come too :laugh:
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So sad that got cancelled for the class of 2021 peeps 🙁 Hope you guys have fun. Asheville is an awesome place
 
I found this for y’all.

Like jayna said, just the one set of three weeks vacation. And no large animal anything until well after my NAVLE date.

IMG_5937.JPG


I think I traded 8 and 10 so that I could have ophtho instead of a preceptor/elective.
 
vetmedhead said:
Ugh same, I have soft tissue surgery next and I'm dreading it. Jealous
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Going to start my third on call shift for our ortho service in 2 hours. Once I hit 8 am, im safe until 5:30 am Monday.

If we got more hands on experience during surgery, I'd be more enthusiastic for 4 weeks of it. But since students at most place a screw, im less motivated.
 
batsenecal said:
Going to start my third on call shift for our ortho service in 2 hours. Once I hit 8 am, im safe until 5:30 am Monday.

If we got more hands on experience during surgery, I'd be more enthusiastic for 4 weeks of it. But since students at most place a screw, im less motivated.
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Your ortho service has on call shifts?
 
batsenecal said:
Going to start my third on call shift for our ortho service in 2 hours. Once I hit 8 am, im safe until 5:30 am Monday.

If we got more hands on experience during surgery, I'd be more enthusiastic for 4 weeks of it. But since students at most place a screw, im less motivated.
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My ortho sx rotation wasn't too horrible, they split it evenly between the orthopedic medicine service and the orthopedic surgery service, so I was only on for a week. All of my procedures were long af though. But we didn't do on call, just had people on any transfers we may have gotten
 
vetmedhead said:
All of my procedures were long af though
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My last anesthesia case was an ortho surgery and I knew it was going to be long but I did not expect it to be literally all day long. Literally. Started first thing in the morning and I was the last to leave. Though to be fair this did include post-op rads and recovery time.
 
finnickthedog said:
Your ortho service has on call shifts?
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Both surgery services share on call at the same time for about ~20 students being on call for the two weeks (36 total on call shifts between primary and secondary on call). So I was primary on Tuesday and called in for a septic abdomen. That patient was mine till 6 am. If I get called in tonight for a foreign body, that patient is mine till monday at 6 am. The same applies vice versa. If a aoft tissue student was called in earlier today for a femur fracture, they keep the kiddo till Monday at 6 am.
vetmedhead said:
My ortho sx rotation wasn't too horrible, they split it evenly between the orthopedic medicine service and the orthopedic surgery service, so I was only on for a week. All of my procedures were long af though. But we didn't do on call, just had people on any transfers we may have gotten
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Our ortho service is basically med and surge. The only reason I have 1 week of on call is due to how they've divided us up for covid. I was PM shift this week, so didn't go in till 2 (or was supposed to start at 2; at the school early 3 days this week and the only PM student to come in early and be called in so far). Normally we'd be on call for the two weeks divided between all of us.
 
finnickthedog said:
My last anesthesia case was an ortho surgery and I knew it was going to be long but I did not expect it to be literally all day long. Literally. Started first thing in the morning and I was the last to leave. Though to be fair this did include post-op rads and recovery time.
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I didn't have a single surgery shorter than 5 hours while I was on that rotation
 
batsenecal said:
Both surgery services share on call at the same time for about ~20 students being on call for the two weeks (36 total on call shifts between primary and secondary on call). So I was primary on Tuesday and called in for a septic abdomen. That patient was mine till 6 am. If I get called in tonight for a foreign body, that patient is mine till monday at 6 am. The same applies vice versa. If a aoft tissue student was called in earlier today for a femur fracture, they keep the kiddo till Monday at 6 am.
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We just didn't have on call for ortho and I assumed this was normal. If something came in and needed ortho, it waited until morning or Monday.
 
finnickthedog said:
We just didn't have on call for ortho and I assumed this was normal. If something came in and needed ortho, it waited until morning or Monday.
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We definitely take soft tissue things to surgery more than we take ortho cases. But we do take some ortho cases after hours/over the weekend. Just depends on the case and what the faculty think. And all the surgery on call is split between the two services to try to spread the load. I couldn't imagine not splitting the on call between the two. Our soft tissue students would never sleep or would have to miss one or two weekdays of the service to be able to catch up on sleep/paperwork for all their patients.
 
batsenecal said:
I couldn't imagine not splitting the on call between the two. Our soft tissue students would never sleep or would have to miss one or two weekdays of the service to be able to catch up on sleep/paperwork for all their patients.
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We don't have it combined and I think with typical size of the rotation, it would end up being 4ish on call shifts per student over a three week period which I don't think is that bad. How many students do you have on each rotation?
 
finnickthedog said:
We don't have it combined and I think with typical size of the rotation, it would end up being 4ish on call shifts per student over a three week period which I don't think is that bad. How many students do you have on each rotation?
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We probably average 7 or 8 students per rotation, though soft tissue has 9(!) right now. So if just soft tissue was on call for surgery, they would have (in non-COVID times) 4 or 5 shifts over 2 weeks. With having the ortho students on call, it drops down to 2 or 3 apiece. In COVID, that 2 or 3 is only during your PM shift week, and then you're AM shift week, you're not on call.

I get it doesn't sound like a lot. But in the context of how busy the services are, and then keeping in context that over the coarse of clinical year, we're on call about every third day between service on call, then ICU/ER/ISO on call, it's nice to split it. Added: especially if you were called in even for just half your shifts. STS was here till 9 or 10 pm every day this week, on top of on call. As much as I hated going in from 7:30 to 1:30 tuesday night, it definitely was a relief to the STS to know they didn't get called in on that one.
 
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