Death Nommy - Game Thread

[potentialsheltervet]

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Dubz is gonna kill me and yeet me.
After sleep I have been in a tinfoil nightmare but one thing is clear to me:

SAR is a wolf in any world. She is not clear.

It is either PSV and SAR

or - where the tinfoil is happening - its 2 2 man packs and it is SAR and Dubz.

The caveat is SAR is in both these worlds.
SAR needs to be the yeet.
That would get us into a world where we're no longer YOLO and would possibly know if it is a second pack.

I now accept the tear down that is coming to me and get myself misyeeted.
But I gotta say it and try my best.

Oh?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I come with no clarity, but a newfound sense of determination.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

You may only yeet between @Clem J, @_rae_, and @samac!​

So I decided to check who Stagg had put up for yeet after his own demise. This suggests, to me, that samac and rae are not paired. samac had good thread position after Stagg's yeet and rae's was alright, but it would still be insanely risky to put two of your packmates in a group of three and simply hope that Clem was the one yoten. I don't think that's what happened.
(As a general note, though, I'm going to attempt to focus on finding one wolfy individual today instead of a perfect pair. This was just something I noted and wanted to bring forth.)

Now, for the main point of the post:
I was going to go back and look at everyone's Stagg interactions, but then I remembered He Who Jims Jays Jaggedly already did so. I wanted to revisit Jay's thoughts on everyone post-Stagg yeet.

SAR and Stagg


Not really inclined to clear SAR for this. She was the "first" Stagg vote, at least after all the unvoting and re-voting, but I don't care. It's not enough.

rae and Stagg


This is alright. It doesn't scream town to me, but it's alright. Per the final tally order, rae was the "second" Stagg voter.

samac and Stagg


samac's handling of Stagg mostly mirrors my own. She never really protected him in any way that matters even if she wasn't enthusiastic about the vote. Her vote was fifth on the final wagon, so it didn't move mountains. But I'm fine with her.

Dubz and Stagg


Dubz was probably the premier reason Stagg was destroyed. That alone doesn't sell me, knowing how Stagg operates. However, she is also responsible for what I think is the best post in the Stagg-review series (I colored it blue). She had a keen and correct insight about Stagg's read on me that both helps people to see me properly and also motivated me to return to the Stagg wagon. Dubz is a good kid.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Oh. That didn't work how I wanted it to. Welp, just click on JJJ's name and go to his original posts for the content, then.

 

[samac]

Oh?

It ain’t Rae.
It ain’t me.
I’m in a weird world right now.
I hate this.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

It ain’t Rae.
It ain’t me.
I’m in a weird world right now.
I hate this.

I agree we're in a weird world. I still can't believe Dubz would willingly drag down a packmate (Stagg) D1 and jump to the other packmate on the same day when there was suspicion on him (fruit). It boggles the mind.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I mean. If the intent was to go deep, then she's so deep the light of yeeting won't touch her for miles.

 

[samac]

I agree we're in a weird world. I still can't believe Dubz would willingly drag down a packmate (Stagg) D1 and jump to the other packmate on the same day when there was suspicion on him (fruit). It boggles the mind.

It’s either you and SAR
Or it’s SAR and Dubz as a separate pack is the tinfoil. We have no evidence of 2 packs but someone is either grossly deep or it’s happening.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Then again. If Dubz is village, which I strongly believe, and samac and rae aren't paired, then that means it has to be SAR. Which is hard for me to believe.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

It’s either you and SAR
Or it’s SAR and Dubz as a separate pack is the tinfoil. We have no evidence of 2 packs but someone is either grossly deep or it’s happening.

Well, it's not me and SAR. But I also don't see it being two separate packs in this setup. I can't disprove it but I feel like there would've been some inclination.

 

[samac]

Well, it's not me and SAR. But I also don't see it being two separate packs in this setup. I can't disprove it but I feel like there would've been some inclination.

We got nothing towards anything.

 

[samac]

Then again. If Dubz is village, which I strongly believe, and samac and rae aren't paired, then that means it has to be SAR. Which is hard for me to believe.

That's where I'm at. You and Rae aren't paired. In any world it has to SAR.
You and SAR could be paired.
SAR and Dubz could be paired.
SAR and rae could be paired, it's not crazy.
But you and rae aren't paired.

There isn't a world where it isn't SAR.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

That's where I'm at. You and Rae aren't paired. In any world it has to SAR.
You and SAR could be paired.
SAR and Dubz could be paired.
SAR and rae could be paired, it's not crazy.
But you and rae aren't paired.

There isn't a world where it isn't SAR.

Hm.
Can you remind me why you're so sure it isn't Rae? That goes beyond her sounding pure. Tone can be coached.

 

[samac]

Hm.
Can you remind me why you're so sure it isn't Rae? That goes beyond her sounding pure. Tone can be coached.

It's not.
I read through all her posts last night, there isn't an agenda there. She is sorting things out, her push on indy is just so genuine. She is reading and evaluting.
She is the purest noob I think I've ever played with. She is village.

BUT if it was Rae who is she paired with? SAR?

 

[samac]

Ya know what
I'm banking on it so much
I guess I'm changing my potential thunderdome

Yeet SAR

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Rooty Tooty samac on Fruity

Spoiler: samac salad

Unyeet Stagg yeet fruit

I can’t d1 yeet him in good conscience after being on his vote last game to save myself.

Not asking you to follow me!

Why not
You usually like when I follow you lol

What does Clem stand to gain from being yeeted first?

If someone can make a good fruit argument, I’m happy to change from Stagg with the new contribution s

Why fruit?
Could I make an argument for say genny and you’d change?
Or PSV?

Dubz
Clem
April
Zenges
JJJ
Rae
Indy
Fruit
SAR
DVMD
PSV
genny

To be very clear: I don't WANT to be yeeted. I don't think I necessarily should be, but I can see the Stagg/fruit angle looking bad.

Why fruit

Okay.

Can everyone give me their arguments on fruit please

Dubz
Zenges
Rae
April
SAR
Fruit
Genny
DVMD
PSV
Indy

What's interesting is asking for arguments on fruit as though she's considering him... but the next reads list has him in the same place. huh.

Those are overall fine. I’d prefer you take out Zenges and replace with genny or fruit but I can live with it.

I agree. I’d like fruit genny and PSV tbh

But then almost immediately, she starts to gently push him with including him in her group of three.

Ya know what?
Fun

Unyeet Indy
Yeet fruit

Tie shenanigans

unyeet fruit
Yeet indy

Unshenanigans

I think it could be fruit and Indy

I think it doesn’t matter much either way and there’s a high chance they’re both wolves and I’m going with leaving the one who seems more invested Alive.

The one who seems more invested being fruit

Tbh, this doesn't look all that great between samac and fruit. The "why fruit" probing interprets as feeling out threadstate before realizing fruit was going to go down regardless and so changing her tune on him while still not being on the final vote.
Not damning because it certainly could come from a village perspective, but something to notice on this YoLo.

 

[samac]

Rooty Tooty samac on Fruity

Spoiler: samac salad

What's interesting is asking for arguments on fruit as though she's considering him... but the next reads list has him in the same place. huh.


But then almost immediately, she starts to gently push him with including him in her group of three.

Tie shenanigans

Unshenanigans


The one who seems more invested being fruit

Tbh, this doesn't look all that great between samac and fruit. The "why fruit" probing interprets as feeling out threadstate before realizing fruit was going to go down regardless and so changing her tune on him while still not being on the final vote.
Not damning because it certainly could come from a village perspective, but something to notice on this YoLo.

I'm village PSV, but I understand looking.

 

[samac]

I feel the misyeet in my bones though. This is what Zenge must feel like lol

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Tic Tac Fruit on Samac

Spoiler

There's not much to say. She was at the top of his village reads immediately and stayed there.

i think i feel most ok with samac, clem, dvmd

If we want to rule of three... But that's a weak read.

Something

We have 11 minutes and then the thread will close for a day so

welp there goes another tinfoil

samac, can you try not to be too villagey?

The tone of this interaction feels really... strained? samac's initial post was responding to me, and fruit's reply to her feels forced. Naturally, could just be a wolf trying to join in banter and coming out stilted because of it, but it also could be a wolf trying to interact with a packmate and... coming out stilted because of it. It jumped out at me.

 

[samac]

Tic Tac Fruit on Samac

Spoiler

There's not much to say. She was at the top of his village reads immediately and stayed there.

If we want to rule of three... But that's a weak read.


The tone of this interaction feels really... strained? samac's initial post was responding to me, and fruit's reply to her feels forced. Naturally, could just be a wolf trying to join in banter and coming out stilted because of it, but it also could be a wolf trying to interact with a packmate and... coming out stilted because of it. It jumped out at me.

I was shocked when he village read me right off after last game tbh.
But everyone else was and he said he learned the error of his ways so eh

 

[samac]

Tic Tac Fruit on Samac

Spoiler

There's not much to say. She was at the top of his village reads immediately and stayed there.

If we want to rule of three... But that's a weak read.


The tone of this interaction feels really... strained? samac's initial post was responding to me, and fruit's reply to her feels forced. Naturally, could just be a wolf trying to join in banter and coming out stilted because of it, but it also could be a wolf trying to interact with a packmate and... coming out stilted because of it. It jumped out at me.

I will ask though if you're going to push me that you look at who I could potentially be paired with at this point.
Dubz I guess.

 

[samac]

This is gonna hurt. I wanted to go in F4 so I wouldn't let village down as the final misyeet.
Sad.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Sneet Snoot SAR on Fruit

Spoiler

Trying to read at least from the flip yesterday. Has anyone questioned this or has fruit addressed why he has no interest in even discussing the alternatives today? From what I read yesterday I didn't see any glaring reads on Clem from him?

Genny, fruit, indy

Playing catch up again, as is tradition

I already put forward that I think genny/fruit/indy would be good for tomorrow. My current preference of voting is then in that order based on my current game state leanings

My strongest village read of the group today is Jay. I'm deciding between Dubz and April. My gut says that this is another all-village pile but tinfoil is tinfoily. Clem was also possibly my highest village read so I don't want to discount his assumed legacy choice was April based on me feeling weird about Dubz giving me the coveted soul read

Tbh genny has felt more in line with the genny way in the past day or so but she can also hit stride as a wolf well so I'm not totally discounting that yet

Bringing this back because I think this is a very decent iso at least as far as fruit's reads. So I'm focusing mainly on the posts that psv didn't cover here and looking at content other than reads lists. However, I think what stands out to me when re-reading this, is the impression that Fruits has made a lot of reads and a lot of changes to his reads with little justification.

I think there's also a lot of posts where he has poked sus at players on thread for somewhat nebulous reasoning, but then never follows up with a push OR with questioning of the player he apparently suspects based on that. When looking at the posts as a whole, I think it comes across as very much throwing things at the wall to see if anyone will pick it up to run with it.

I also think the reads lists frequently gives the impression of working hard at solving, when there isn't actually a lot of solving in evidence. I'm going to pull some quotes that hopefully will help to show what I mean here.

Yeet fruit

To have it on the board while I pull quotes

Okay, a bushel of fruit quotes that I think are actually pretty damning. I'm not spoilering them because I'm afraid no one will actually read them if I do and this took a long time dammit


Hedgey hedgey, putting out sus in a way to see if it could gain traction without having to commit

Again, seeing if anyone will bite.

When asked by JJJ who he would put up on D1 if he were suddenly voted out. I think it's really interesting that Stagg is on this list when he spent a lot of time on D1 saying he didn't think Stagg was a wolf

I addressed a day or two ago that I think anyone pushing this narrative strongly had higher wolf utility. This was an oppotunity to pit a strong town read against a typically strong town player

"Massive reevaluation" = I am a wolf and I know who village is. There was no evidence or justification to this change, just "I re-read and changed my mind". A villager should give us some reasoning here (hopefully)

The start of the push that there must be a wolf in the town reads - this is a strong continuous theme for fruit and feels like an attempt to get others to question the blocc

Wishy washing again, with no reasoning to back it up or to understand why they are making the change.

Again, "a wolf in the green"

So this is an interesting segment. After he posted this I pushed back on it and got the following two quotes as a response. IMO this reads as again trying to bring questioning into players that are consensus village-read, then having to back pedal quickly when actually questioned so that he wouldn't have to take an actual stand on it himself when no one bit at the breadcrumbs





Evidence of perhaps less effort going into reads - this would fit more with a wolf mentality

Fishing for sus to tag onto

Again, blocc dismantling

And again

More breadcrumbs to see if anyone would take it and run. Then when questioned about this:

Provides names but no analysis of such and no conviction as to which he feels is wolf. Again, waiting for someone else to go "hmm" and make the argument for him so he doesn't have to come up with reasoning that someone else could pick apart.

Again with the wolf in the village

See the theme?

This circles back to the gotcha vote comments. Again, when pressed to commit, he backs off.

And @samac I think I saw somewhere you ask about the genny Way but I forgot to quote it.

I didn't feel it for the first day at all. I think in my last genny iso I pointed out the only post of hers that felt like good genny to me. Her tone has dramatically improved since so I'm willing to entertain she may be village or might be better emulating it now

(Lol literally halfway through writing this the child came running yelling "MAMA DONE NOW! MAMA DONE!")

SAR has been semi-suspicious of fruit since the beginning, but maintained that there were others she was more sus of (genny) until fruit was in serious contention. At that point SAR was very comfortable burying him. This isn't super clearing.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

It's Bizarre, Fruit on SAR

Spoiler

Rough impressions

samac
Clem
JJJ
SAR
rae
Zenge
WZ
genny
April

SAR, WZ, and Zenge feel neutral to me at this point, could go either way

Rae’s entrance is pretty neutral to me too, although i got slight parallels with beans entrance last game

I mean, rule of three, I guess?

Samac
JJJ
April
Zenge
Rae
WZ
SAR
Stagg
genny
Indy
DVMD
PSV
Clem

JJJ
samac
Zenge
WZ
Clem
Indy
SAR
rae
DVMD
genny
April
PSV

Note SAR being planted very firmly in his neutrals.

strongest to weakest treatment of stagg (or most active to most passive)

WZ > JJJ > samac > Zenge > Indy > SAR > rae

Very interesting to have SAR this low based on her treatment on Stagg, imo.

samac
JJJ
Zenge
WZ
indy
April
rae
SAR
DVMD
genny
PSV

SAR still in neutrals.

well i don’t feel good about DVMD, SAR, and PSV at the very least

Random shade-throwing at SAR based on her reaction to samac's Dubz reaction test thing...

samac
Zenge
WZ
rae
April
SAR
DVMD
indy
genny
PSV

...and yet she's still in the top of his neutrals?

I don't know what to make of this, at all. Lol.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Zip Zoot Dubz on Fruit

Spoiler

Fruits is giving more overt thoughts than last game which oddly doesn't make me feel great considering that was a village game for him.

Of that pool I've only gotten real pings from fruit

Stagg
fruit
PSV
SAR
Indy
DVMD
genny
April
Zenge
Jay
Clem
rae
samac

Like in my perfect world we yeet Stagg today and tomorrow our options are fruit, PSV, and Jay I think.

Unyeet Stagg yeet fruit

It is kind of interesting looking at fruit's list because other than Clem I'm not terribly upset about most of it. If he is a wolf then it feels like there must be packmates in his POE. Progression from yellow to wolfy villager read on Stagg just seems odd contextually in that case.

PSV
fruits
genny
DVMD
indy
rae
April
Jay
SAR
Zenge
samac

Really? I figured fruit was more of a foregone conclusion given his placement on like everyone's list

This is a good find. In conjunction with fruit looking the worst of the three wrt Stagg interactions, I think I'm comfy with my vote.

Dubz was pushing Fruit from the get-go. This looks very good for her.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Little Fox Cubs, Fruit on Dubz

Spoiler

Rough impressions

samac
Clem
JJJ
SAR
rae
Zenge
WZ
genny
April

SAR, WZ, and Zenge feel neutral to me at this point, could go either way

Rae’s entrance is pretty neutral to me too, although i got slight parallels with beans entrance last game

why for orange and red reads? why are genny, WZ, and PSV so high up?

JJJ
samac
Zenge
WZ
Clem
Indy
SAR
rae
DVMD
genny
April
PSV

Spoiler

Strength of WZ treatment of stagg

Well WZ push on Stagg is the strongest of the 7 votes

JJJ > WZ > April from most to least village

samac
JJJ
Zenge
WZ
indy
April
rae
SAR
DVMD
genny
PSV

Fruit seemed to be reluctant to give Dubz credit for the Stagg vote and instead positioned others as more village than her. Doesn't seem like a packmate bolstering another packmate's thread position.
Not paired.

 

[samac]

Little Fox Cubs, Fruit on Dubz


Fruit seemed to be reluctant to give Dubz credit for the Stagg vote and instead positioned others as more village than her. Doesn't seem like a packmate bolstering another packmate's thread position.
Not paired.

I agree. If it is Dubz I think it is a second pack, which a SAR flip could signal us to.
Just sayin'

 

[WildZoo]

A SAR Investigation Part 1: Interactions with Known Wolves

Subsection B: fruit/SAR

Early stuff is meh, but fruit initially treating rae and SAR exactly the same is kind of interesting. Off the cuff I think it is likely they aren't both his partners, though from my perspective one of them must be since PSV/samac doesn't make sense as a pairing.

Spoiler

Rough impressions

samac
Clem
JJJ
SAR
rae
Zenge
WZ
genny
April

SAR, WZ, and Zenge feel neutral to me at this point, could go either way

Rae’s entrance is pretty neutral to me too, although i got slight parallels with beans entrance last game

SAR doesn't really say anything useful about fruit early on either.

Spoiler

I had two minutes before I went out of service and didn't have any particular vibes on genny/Dubz/fruit. I asked April a question because the tone and word choices of her first point felt somewhat sus but I wanted to hear her thought process first before I decided if I was just reading it funny

Later rae moves into fruit's village reads but SAR is still in neutral. Also thought it was funny that he still had Stagg in neutral here despite yelling just a few posts prior that he was village?? That's not important now but made me chuckle.

Samac
JJJ
April
Zenge
Rae
WZ
SAR
Stagg
genny
Indy
DVMD
PSV
Clem

This is kind of indirectly related, but earlier I think samac brought up and I agreed that it would be odd for fruit to bring attention to the Stagg wagon if there was a bus, but it does seem that he did in fact do that since SAR, rae, and samac are all there.
Stagg (7) - SAR, rae, Indy, Dubz, samac, JJJ, Zenge

I dont think the stagg wagon is pure

I’m also thinking indy and dvmd aren’t w/w

SAR and I had a short fruit discussion on D2. She didn't really go anywhere with it so it's more nothingness.

Spoiler

I’m fine with this, but i’m not going to budge off of Clem for today

I’ll unvote to avoid the hammer though

Trying to read at least from the flip yesterday. Has anyone questioned this or has fruit addressed why he has no interest in even discussing the alternatives today? From what I read yesterday I didn't see any glaring reads on Clem from him?

He shouted about Clem/Zenge being w/v but I don't think he's said yet if that has changed with Clem now reading Zenge village

@SARdoghandler

(I provided some quotes)

Thanks, helpful.

Mentally putting a pin on this to see if she followed up on it in her later fruit case.

I am reading interactions with more skepticism after this point because once fruit says this:

welp i think i’ll be on the chopping block next day, rightly so, seems like my approach to the game has an inherent self defeating aspect to it i’ol need to resolve

I’ll work toward a defense

He is clearly in damage control mode. I won't throw everything out because I do think with this game setup it would still be so damaging to lose another wolf unnecessarily, but 1) less damaging than if they started with 3 and 2) it would be silly not to set up some evidence of clearance for the remaining two when fruit was under such heavy suspicion, especially in a setup where the cleared villagers can't be killed easily.

And because of that, this interaction is less meaningful in full context. It would be a pretty easy one to manufacture, there's not much push or emotion there, it is overall just kind of...there.

Spoiler

so i don’t think clem is a wolf

But we need to consider rae as one possibility as well as samac i think

(this isn't a rule of threes thing, as a reminder, these were the yeet options that day)

Certainly all 3 can be village

GTH, do you think they are wolf or village?

As of now, all village

I appreciate the effort in re-evaluating but this feels like mostly nothingburger so far.



Do you intend to still sit on Clem? If so, why?

well GTH are immediate impressions/feelz

he’s currently the least village of the 3

She doesn't mention fruit by name here which is a little odd? This is indirect fruit shading since he was one of the people pushing the Clem/Zenge difference check. But it's also indirect Jay shading (and maybe others, I can't remember who else was on that train).

One thing I found interesting is that the Zenge portion of the Zenge/Clem argument was surprisingly tame on iso, not exactly fitting the narrative I think a few people espoused of it being a strong attack on each other from both sides. So I think my overall impression of that is anyone who tried to push a w/v Zenge/Clem universe may be getting extra sketch points for pushing what I think was v/v shoving. Will pay more attention to this again when I get to the Clem portion (unfortunately on the bottom of my list, especially if he is yoten today)

D3 SAR and rae hanging out together in neutrals again, rae later moves back up to green. SAR was in fruit's neutrals for...literally the entire time he was alive, which isn't a great look for her.

samac
JJJ
Zenge
WZ
indy
April
rae
SAR
DVMD
genny
PSV

D4, by this point fruit is on the docket and despite what Zenge insisted he was very much in a lot of people's wolf reads and in danger of being voted out, so I would expect shenanigans to ensue. Treading carefully with village points here.

Spoiler

so when samac set up that gotcha vote on WZ, i think a wolf fell for it

well i don’t feel good about DVMD, SAR, and PSV at the very least

I have a theory that wolves fell for samac’s gotcha vote on WZ and was approaching this from an activity/timestamp angle but i’m now realizing it’s a stretch, especially since i saw SAR’s vote was for different reasons

Noting for completeness but not strong enough in either direction to move the needle. If he was trying to distance from SAR idk why he would turn around and be like "nah nvm" so quickly though.

I’m here and a bit down, sorry if I’m a little sloppy

My top 3 would be indy, psv, genny as before

samac
Zenge
WZ
rae
April
SAR
DVMD
indy
genny
PSV

And SAR still in neutrals

This isn't a direct interaction with fruit but is a contextual one of sorts. This post is I think one of the strongest cases for v!SAR outside of the Stagg/Jay tie break, and I think even stronger than her later case on fruit (that one is good but given timing and threadstate I would not be shocked about a wolf making a similar post, we'll get there though).

Knowing now that indy and genny were both village, it is obvious that the pack was looking to still get the indy misyeet if fruit went over - that would explain him not voting for indy etc etc. It therefore would be so counterproductive for SAR to make a post so strongly in indy's favor. You just can't walk a stance like this back, especially knowing fruit is going to flip wolf if he goes over. Now it turns out everyone mostly ignored her thoughts here and ended up speedrunning indy after the fruit flip anyway, but she wouldn't have known that this post wouldn't impact people's reads.

Spoiler

Ope I think I have a contrarian view on Indy now having looked at her posts in a vacuum. Gonna pull some quotes and try to explain my thoughts but I don't think I'll be voting Indy today

Ok so, thoughts on Indy based on iso-ing. Disclaimers first, I am reading them through a newbie lens, which means if they are playing at a 5D level already, it is entirely possible I may be bamboozled. Also, I think they're a similar type of player to how I am with a high amount of noise:content ratio (not a dig, it's also how I enjoy the game the most) with lots of joking and **** posting. So that may also make my read a bit biased towards villager status. That said, I think I am actually making an Indy-as-village argument.

Spoiler: Specific Quotes and Thoughts

I didn't pull any of their joking posts from early in the game, but there is a deep level of chill vibes through probably their first ~15 posts or so that I think would be a very difficult tone to pull as a wolf in your first game. Especially with a wolf on the chopping block day 1. That's a stressful situation to be in.



Comment directed to Jay, who they then ended up temporarily dropping a vote for. I'm not saying a noob wolf wouldn't drop a vote for Jay, I'm just saying that the rest of the wolf pack would maybe gently push them away from that unless there is a thread consensus, which there definitely wasn't at the time. I don't think a noob wolf purposefully draws the attention of one of the more active and questioning players like that.



Again, could this be wolf theater to ask on thread instead of in your pack? Yes. But this is still not a post I expect to see from a noob wolf because it likely doesn't occur to anyone to ask this for the cred.



Again, going against strong thread consensus to sus Rae. This continues to be a consistent read for Indy and they catch heat for it since most of the thread has a village read on Rae. It is, again, a very strong anti-consensus move that I don't see a noob wolf doing when there are easier pushes to make in this scenario.



They caught a whole lot of heat for the post that sparked this conversation about their book quote but responded in such a cool, collected way. Again, does a wolf make a sketchy sounding post like that was just to quote a book? I think this is noob trying to have fun and catching strays for it (I know the feels, I got sketch read a ton for the exact same things when I started playing)



Sticking by the Rae as scum read, and now poking at Samac. At the risk of inflating samac's ego, you don't poke at samac as a noob wolf. Hell I get scared of poking at samac even when I actually legit think she's a wolf, and I'm not even a noob



Still sticking to their read, despite strong thread pressure. This shows a commitment to their own thoughts, even when the easier thing to do would be to "reevaluate" and just go oopsie maybe she is village!




Now these two posts together are interesting because they were village reading DVMD and PSV. However, I think in this case it's more about trying to put up names that they feel village would benefit from based on discussions and consensus today.

To more or less sum up, their overall tone through the first two days was remarkably relaxed and joking. While I'm sure it's possible for a skilled noob wolf to have that level of chill, it is absolutely not what I would expect. They also have a few times gone against thread consensus with their own reads or poked at active, questioning players. Both of these things has caused others to sus them, which is exactly why Indy-as-wolf shouldn't be making these moves, assuming they have reasonable teammates to help guide them on what kind of reads are going to get you heat. They have also stayed solid in their more controversial reads, when it would be a lot easier as a wolf to go with the flow and find arbitrary reasons to change your reads that are getting you heat.

Idk, obviously people have a different view but when looking at the overall tone and progression of their posts, I don't see a wolf here.

Edit: fixing for pronouns

Next up SAR does her fruit push, including a vote that ties him with indy.

Spoiler

Day 4 Yeet Tally
indy (4) - Zenge, indy, rae, samac
fruit (3) - Dubz, April, genny
genny (1) - fruit

8/11
yeet close in ~45 minutes
Missing: PSV, SAR, DVMD

Bringing this back because I think this is a very decent iso at least as far as fruit's reads. So I'm focusing mainly on the posts that psv didn't cover here and looking at content other than reads lists. However, I think what stands out to me when re-reading this, is the impression that Fruits has made a lot of reads and a lot of changes to his reads with little justification.

I think there's also a lot of posts where he has poked sus at players on thread for somewhat nebulous reasoning, but then never follows up with a push OR with questioning of the player he apparently suspects based on that. When looking at the posts as a whole, I think it comes across as very much throwing things at the wall to see if anyone will pick it up to run with it.

I also think the reads lists frequently gives the impression of working hard at solving, when there isn't actually a lot of solving in evidence. I'm going to pull some quotes that hopefully will help to show what I mean here.

I don't think it's impossible for a wolf partner to make this post. It doesn't feel like w!SAR posting to me, but that's nebulous and I know won't mean much to anyone else. I will temper the points I give here for the aforementioned threadstate reasons.

Yeet fruit

To have it on the board while I pull quotes

Day 4 Yeet Tally
indy (4) - Zenge, indy, rae, samac
fruit (4) - Dubz, April, genny, SAR
genny (1) - fruit

9/11
fruit and @indysadventures are in the lead!
yeet close in ~24 minutes
Missing: PSV, DVMD

Okay, a bushel of fruit quotes that I think are actually pretty damning. I'm not spoilering them because I'm afraid no one will actually read them if I do and this took a long time dammit


Hedgey hedgey, putting out sus in a way to see if it could gain traction without having to commit

Again, seeing if anyone will bite.

When asked by JJJ who he would put up on D1 if he were suddenly voted out. I think it's really interesting that Stagg is on this list when he spent a lot of time on D1 saying he didn't think Stagg was a wolf

I addressed a day or two ago that I think anyone pushing this narrative strongly had higher wolf utility. This was an oppotunity to pit a strong town read against a typically strong town player

"Massive reevaluation" = I am a wolf and I know who village is. There was no evidence or justification to this change, just "I re-read and changed my mind". A villager should give us some reasoning here (hopefully)

The start of the push that there must be a wolf in the town reads - this is a strong continuous theme for fruit and feels like an attempt to get others to question the blocc

Wishy washing again, with no reasoning to back it up or to understand why they are making the change.

Again, "a wolf in the green"

So this is an interesting segment. After he posted this I pushed back on it and got the following two quotes as a response. IMO this reads as again trying to bring questioning into players that are consensus village-read, then having to back pedal quickly when actually questioned so that he wouldn't have to take an actual stand on it himself when no one bit at the breadcrumbs





Evidence of perhaps less effort going into reads - this would fit more with a wolf mentality

Fishing for sus to tag onto

Again, blocc dismantling

And again

More breadcrumbs to see if anyone would take it and run. Then when questioned about this:

Provides names but no analysis of such and no conviction as to which he feels is wolf. Again, waiting for someone else to go "hmm" and make the argument for him so he doesn't have to come up with reasoning that someone else could pick apart.

Again with the wolf in the village

See the theme?

This circles back to the gotcha vote comments. Again, when pressed to commit, he backs off.

She did in fact bring up the Zenge/Clem difference check that she had mentioned before, looks good that she didn't drop that train of thought. Overall these points are good, if it had occurred earlier in the game or even earlier in the day I would give it a strong village lean (at the time it felt like it confirmed my village read on her tbh), but given context now I will keep that more mild.

I also went on a side quest to look through SAR's posts from the champs practice game since it has been quite a while since I've played with w!SAR, and I just don't see anything like this level of effort in there. She did put both of her partners as wolf in her GTH reads and voted for mayo (but moved off) d1 so I get the paranoia people have there, but there wasn't this amount of pushing them and clearing their counters with like, pulling quotes and giving strong evidence. I wouldn't expect her to bus more and harder this game given the number of misyeets wolves need to win here increases more with every wolf death because of the lack of nightkills. The only time she ended the day on a wolf partner that game was when Zenge had his fake red check on mayo and flipped village.

I also looked for ISOs from her in that game and only found...one, and otherwise a lot of mentions of her doing ISOs but not actually showing her work
- on Dina (village), who she ended up hedgey on and later was asking for particular people's thoughts on Dina, which felt a bit like she was looking for permission to push there.

Very different imo than the ones here that I quoted above and the earlier one on Zenge where she provided more evidence and gave more solid stances. I don't see that level of hedge and outsourcing in her ISOs in this game that she had there.


Overall, direct interactions between SAR and fruit are neutral, fruit's treatment of SAR gives her mild wolf points, and SAR's clearing of indy while casing fruit combine for a slight village lean.

As a side meta note, her efforts in this game compared to her most recent wolf outing give her another village point.

 

[WildZoo]

That took forever and I had y'all on ignore to make it easier to look through things so I'm back to real time for a bit before looking at possible SAR pairings.

 

[_rae_]

I agree with PSVs evaluation of samac.

I'm at the point where I'm very suspicious. The fruit interactions don't look good (which I stated a few yeets ago and no one seemed game on it). The desperation of being in the yeet pool the last few times, the "assurances" that she would be a misyeet, and the warning to me that casting a vote could easily cause the wolves to pile on and over power us, yet deciding to vote for SAR without a consensus from the group.

Samac is wolf. I just don't know who her buddy is yet, and these flow graphs won't make themselves. Be back in a bit.

 

[WildZoo]

Dubz is gonna kill me and yeet me.
After sleep I have been in a tinfoil nightmare but one thing is clear to me:

SAR is a wolf in any world. She is not clear.

It is either PSV and SAR

or - where the tinfoil is happening - its 2 2 man packs and it is SAR and Dubz.

The caveat is SAR is in both these worlds.
SAR needs to be the yeet.
That would get us into a world where we're no longer YOLO and would possibly know if it is a second pack.

I now accept the tear down that is coming to me and get myself misyeeted.
But I gotta say it and try my best.

You are absolutely incorrect, and yes I may in fact yeet you for it. For one, what evidence is there of a second pack here? That is absolutely absurd.

I feel like I'm reliving last game all over again. If you're village, please read the entirety of the VERY THOROUGH COMBING I just did on SAR and tell me again she's a wolf.

 

[WildZoo]

I think PSV's call out of samac/rae may have been correct if this is the direction samac is going in rn. I also got another look at fruit's posts from d1 while I was rereading and still have a very hard time pairing PSV with him.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Poop Shoot, Rae on Fruit

Spoiler

My n00b analysis and then I have to spend the morning ferrying stuff to our new apartment:
samac
zenge
fruit salad
JJJ
genny
April
dubz

I have no opinion on SAR yet.

Fruit at top of neutrals

samac - basing some of this on other's reads because I just don't know her well enough
dubz - vibes
SAR - not enough to go off of, could go either way
PSV - not enough to go off of, could go either way
April - least sure of their gameplay style
fruit - vibes
genny - came in hot, but also could be her style, still sus
JJJ - definitely seems to be unsteady in a way that based on other people's reads is uncharacteristic, still suspic, but want to keep him around for a bit
Indy - vibes
Zenge - confused by the assertiveness that I didn't see in GGoats
Clem - self yeet is sus


DVM and Stagg I genuinely don't know where I stand.

I don't have any strong wolf vibes from anyone at the moment. Still learning.

I also have tasks to do tonight and feel as if the best option is YEET Stagg simply due to lack of engagement.

Now fruit at bottom of neutrals for "vibes"

If someone can make a good fruit argument, I’m happy to change from Stagg with the new contribution s

Willingness to change to fruit but never happens

For fruit, seemed a lot of people were jumping ship to them being supsicious, and mob mentality is strong. I was wishy washy on them early. I may have been mis-tallying votes; y'all are quick buggers.

To be very clear: I don't WANT to be yeeted. I don't think I necessarily should be, but I can see the Stagg/fruit angle looking bad.

This seems really interesting to me in hindsight.

JJJ also asked for my reads list last night:
samac
dubz
jjj
zenge
dvmd
fruit
SAR
psv
april
indy

I do think that clem's intentions were for us to vote April. I don't think dubs feels like a good vote option. If there's a strategic reason to vote JX3 I could be convinced, but he is much higher on my "leaning town" list.

ETA: tagging isn't working but I'm sure he'll see this later.

Fruit planted firmly in neutrals, still.

WRONG YOUR VOTE ME OUT

I think if I stick by what I said before, Indy, genny, and fruit vs PSV

Not in accordance with her reads list.

I feel strongly that Indy is wolf still. I’ve been suspicious of genny since the beginning but I also get the vibe that this might just be her play style. If April is wolf she’s a tricky wolf because she’s seemed very involved in problem solving (to the best of her ability). DVMD feels more village than wolf but does have a tendency to get defensive fast. Zenge has felt pretty village to me, again, very involved in problem solving. Fruit has been inconsistent and occasionally a bit panicky to me. I think my stronger votes are Indy or fruit, with me obviously leaning in the Indy direction.

I could be convinced on a fruit flip. I think I agree with the statement that if indy or fruit flip wolf, genny is unlikely.

I am concerned for a misyeet and what tomorrow looks like if that's the case.

I’m sticking with Indy for consistency but I’m not mad if fruit goes over.

Not clearing imo.

 

[_rae_]

I have never said it out loud this game, but I am village. I followed a lot of samac's lead because she came of very village-y in the beginning, but I have been suspicious of her since Indy flipped village and have been vocal about that. If it was just the two of us left, why in the world would I be pointing so much at her?

 

[WildZoo]

samac/rae being in the grouping Stagg put up with Clem in there as the easy misyeet option also fits more with what I would expect from him than him putting up all villagers.

I know rae has been side-eyeing samac recently though so I would need to look back at if that actually unpartners them or if it could be intentional distancing since samac has been getting at least some pressure since...well, at least since that fight with DVMD.

 

[samac]

You are absolutely incorrect, and yes I may in fact yeet you for it. For one, what evidence is there of a second pack here? That is absolutely absurd.

I feel like I'm reliving last game all over again. If you're village, please read the entirety of the VERY THOROUGH COMBING I just did on SAR and tell me again she's a wolf.

I don’t have any.
I think it’s likely SAR and PSV.
But IF there is another world SAR yeet first gets us there

 

[samac]

I think PSV's call out of samac/rae may have been correct if this is the direction samac is going in rn. I also got another look at fruit's posts from d1 while I was rereading and still have a very hard time pairing PSV with him.

If I was wolf I would just push PSV and be done with it.
But I’m trying to critically think about options.

In any world it’s SAR

 

[WildZoo]

I don’t have any.
I think it’s likely SAR and PSV.
But IF there is another world SAR yeet first gets us there

SAR yeet loses us the game. Go read my posts. I literally JUST went through this with Zenge last game and I simply will not accept it happening again.

 

[samac]

samac/rae being in the grouping Stagg put up with Clem in there as the easy misyeet option also fits more with what I would expect from him than him putting up all villagers.

I know rae has been side-eyeing samac recently though so I would need to look back at if that actually unpartners them or if it could be intentional distancing since samac has been getting at least some pressure since...well, at least since that fight with DVMD.

I would not leave my partner sitting on my yeet, pick a fight with PSV to put myself in a tie and potentially go over before yolo when I could have quietly let yolo happen

 

[samac]

SAR yeet loses us the game. Go read my posts. I literally JUST went through this with Zenge last game and I simply will not accept it happening again.

Then who is it?! Rae and PSV?! That doesn’t make sense.

 

[WildZoo]

If I was wolf I would just push PSV and be done with it.
But I’m trying to critically think about options.

In any world it’s SAR

You already said it was either SAR/PSV or this world you're making up, so you're not not pushing PSV.

I kinda think you're up against a wall here because PSV cleared herself too much, so your only option is to hope I waver on SAR, or if you go over instead hope wooflet rae get enough clearance from pushing you to take home the win.

That is my current theory.

 

[WildZoo]

Like basically giving yourself a reason to disregard everything SAR has done this game based on no evidence at all is just ????

 

[WildZoo]

Then who is it?! Rae and PSV?! That doesn’t make sense.

Remind me why?

 

[samac]

You already said it was either SAR/PSV or this world you're making up, so you're not not pushing PSV.

I kinda think you're up against a wall here because PSV cleared herself too much, so your only option is to hope I waver on SAR, or if you go over instead hope wooflet rae get enough clearance from pushing you to take home the win.

That is my current theory.

She hasn’t cleared herself too much. I was making these posts as PSV was her. I think her jumping around reads yesterday was absolutely not clearing.

*sigh*

I gotta work again. We can talk more later.

 

[samac]

Remind me why?

I quoted PSV earlier. She was pretty anti Rae early on. Dropped it for a while and recently picked it back up.

 

[samac]

I have never said it out loud this game, but I am village. I followed a lot of samac's lead because she came of very village-y in the beginning, but I have been suspicious of her since Indy flipped village and have been vocal about that. If it was just the two of us left, why in the world would I be pointing so much at her?

You got to find me or we’re going to lose. Please read through my posts.

 

[WildZoo]

Rae and PSV are not compatible.
PSV pushed her early, didn’t get a bite, left her alone for a while and then recently started pushing her again:

At the front of my mind this is fine, since I still am having a hell of a time seeing PSV as a wolf here.

At the back of my mind, if I'm looking strictly at interaction compatibility, PSV's push and vote there doesn't actually mean much because literally no one else was going for rae that day.

But front of my mind read is gonna get more attention. I'm okay with that pair not being compatible since I don't think PSV is a wolf.

 

[_rae_]

There is

Samac
Dubz
SAR
PSV
me

That's it. I know I'm village. I'm pretty confident that Dubz is village, and Dubz is VERY confident that SAR is village.

That leaves PSV and samac. I want to go back and look at their previous interactions and see if their argument last cycle was potentially intentional.

 

[WildZoo]

I would not leave my partner sitting on my yeet, pick a fight with PSV to put myself in a tie and potentially go over before yolo when I could have quietly let yolo happen

Blah. I mean yes, sure. That doesn't make much sense from a w!samac world, but given nothing makes much sense this game, I can't just clear you for it.

If you're village though you really need to get off this SAR train. You asked me to comb. I combed.

 

[WildZoo]

Zenge told me to yeet samac in f3 but he didn't tell me what to do in f5 😢