England - Game Thread

[alleycat03]

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How many games does somebody have to play to not be new anymore? 4 is plenty for me to not give noob passes anymore and I find this a weird thing for you to pick out of this post to nitpick

Again I just thought it was interesting that someone who explicitly mentions they like mechanics wouldn't bring up one of the most obvious applications of this. It's not some secret only wolves could come up with. And, as pointed out to me by TE herself, she DID mention it and I had missed it, so it doesn't matter anyway

Just chiming in to say that I've played just a few more games than TME, and we were noobs together, but I have also never heard of that wolf category-guessing mechanic that you described earlier. So I'm not sure she would truly know that since she's only played a few games, and has played even less games than me. I'm honestly a bit confused on why the wolves guessing roles in the game apparently rewards them with extra kills, but vmh is clearly more experienced so she (and other vets) would know if that role exists.

 

[The_Breadmann]

Why are you just commenting on crays posts?

I am working through everything and she is a higher poster. Also kinda wanted more clarification on this but not sure since sketchy behavior can then be covered up.

 

[The_Breadmann]

Why are you just commenting on crays posts?

Also reacting to things I am not 100% how to comment on.

 

[The_Breadmann]

You also read me right as a wolf and deadchat convinced you otherwise if I remember correctly.

Still appreciate devils advocate

 

[capri1722]

I'm also not into reads "lists" because those traditionally include village reads and I think village reads are better kept quiet unless those people are in danger of being ousted. Broadcasting to the wolves who we all think is clear just hands them a list of who best to target at night. So even if/when I have a village pile... I won't be sharing it.

I mean the reverse is always possible too--wolves not targeting people who ping as sketchy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm also not into reads lists for different reasons though.

You and Cray both follow that logic, and I agree that wolves 100% will kill people who are being universally “village-read.” I know that the wolves last game definitely tried to kill some people who were village-read, but we also tried to kill some people just for fun to create confusion, and we killed the outed PRs asap. So you never really know why exactly someone was killed, and it’s all very WIFOM in my opinion.

^ Also this though. But for the sake of village sanity I think it's better to assume there is always a discoverable reason why wolves kill the players they do.
On this note I am slightly disappointed there wasn't a kill last night.
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Spoiler: probably not game related

Tell that to the last three village wins.

Ooh, village on a win streak? Back in my day wolves won almost every game lol

 

[sunshinefl]

Yeet Zenge


so far mostly just blah game theme-related jokey posts and defending his girlfriend.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Unyeet capri
Yeet MsP

 

[Zenge142]

so far mostly just blah game theme-related jokey posts

So you’ve read none of my reads, or game related content?

Do you have any reads or analysis of your own you’d like to share?

 

[sunshinefl]

So you’ve read none of my reads, or game related content?

Do you have any reads or analysis of your own you’d like to share?

the ones where you insert yourself into the Doc E/Shorty convo and defend shorty in a giant wall post?

 

[Crayola227]

Regardless of affiliations... Cray.....DocE.....friendliness.... favorite thing

 

[Crayola227]

#### unexterminate shorty ####

#### exterminate Zenge #####

 

[Crayola227]

I don't have a lot of strong feelings at the moment. I've never seen a "day 0" before with an election, and then all the craziness that happened where the top two wagons weren't in the run off at all. Still trying to wrap my head around everything.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/jPGuywkQd4U2Maq3X1/giphy.mp4

 

[Crayola227]

Can you highlight some examples of these "bad takes" and "useless comments", and why you feel they're "bad" or "useless"?

Particularly interested in why you feel worse about those comments and takes than some of the people who have barely posted at all or flat out haven't posted.

Spoiler

 

[Crayola227]

Sure. It's mostly leans at this point considering the thread state but:
Wolfy leans:
DocE obviously.
Cray I don't feel good about, but it's possible it's a pocketing situation.
Alissa: I feel weird about for the vote switching, but since I've also seen her get misyeeted for that, I'm a little gun shy to push there.
Cyndia: I don't feel good about her lack of thread presence given this is how she wolfed in Bioshock.

Village leans:
Alley: I feel good about having just wolfed with her, so leaning village.
Shorty: Village leaning. Typical Shorty village play.
Dubz: Village lean, but if April flips village, it'll be worth reevaluating.
Dina and you AM: Village leaning, but more from feels than content.

Everyone else is pretty neutral.

Spoiler

 

[Crayola227]

Yeet Zenge


so far mostly just blah game theme-related jokey posts and defending his girlfriend.

So you’ve read none of my reads, or game related content?

Do you have any reads or analysis of your own you’d like to share?

the ones where you insert yourself into the Doc E/Shorty convo and defend shorty in a giant wall post?

Spoiler

 

[WildZoo]

the ones where you insert yourself into the Doc E/Shorty convo and defend shorty in a giant wall post?

Nice side stepping the question on your reads, but I am curious how you are reading DocE and shorty then.

 

[sunshinefl]

Nice side stepping the question on your reads, but I am curious how you are reading DocE and shorty then.

Eh I was busy and on mobile. I have no idea what shorty or doc E are yet, but I would say they are not W/W. They’re both people to keep an eye on for now. I’ve never played with Doc E but he’s being pretty aggressive. Could be genuine statements about shorty, trying to throw fake shade on a villager, or making a big distraction. And Shorty is either an innocent villager getting caught in his crosshairs, or there’s something to it, because she’s not acting normal.

*in before I get called hedgey for being open about my thought process on 2 players I don’t have a read on yet but was asked for.

 

[WildZoo]

Eh I was busy and on mobile. I have no idea what shorty or doc E are yet, but I would say they are not W/W. They’re both people to keep an eye on for now. I’ve never played with Doc E but he’s being pretty aggressive. Could be genuine statements about shorty, trying to throw fake shade on a villager, or making a big distraction. And Shorty is either an innocent villager getting caught in his crosshairs, or there’s something to it, because she’s not acting normal.

*in before I get called hedgey for being open about my thought process on 2 players I don’t have a read on yet but was asked for.

Ok. So you have no problem with DocE's approach? Seems a bit out of character for you.

 

[WildZoo]

in before I get called hedgey for being open about my thought process on 2 players I don’t have a read on yet but was asked for.

Both would be relevant to a read on Z since your main issue with him is his defense of shorty, no?

 

[sunshinefl]

Besides those, I have limited reads because it’s early and there’s 62729 million people.

Visc, Finnick, cray, and Enigma are village leans for me.

zenge is wolf lean as I said with my vote.

 

[sunshinefl]

Ok. So you have no problem with DocE's approach? Seems a bit out of character for you.

It’s a little much but I don’t know if that makes him a wolf. Like I said, he’s being very aggressive towards her.

tbh it doesn’t sound nice so I wasn’t going to comment, but even though I was sometimes cringing, shorty frequently fights with me, and is a disciple of AM, and I philosophically disagree with both of their play styles. So I think you are wrong to say that’s out of character for me not to rush to white knight her like Z did.

Both would be relevant to a read on Z since your main issue with him is his defense of shorty, no?

No. My point was he’s not really contributing. Just defending his IRL significant other. Don’t think it says much about shorty that he is.

 

[WildZoo]

No. My point was he’s not really contributing. Just defending his IRL significant other. Don’t think it says much about shorty that he is.

He gave reads on several other people iirc

 

[samac]

It's day 1. Chill.

You did not say it’s day 1 and tell someone to chill when you’ve been the totally opposite of chill because it’s day 1. Like what now.

Nah, been sleeping/distracted. Catching up now

Weird because you were on yesterday, just not posting.

How many games does somebody have to play to not be new anymore? 4 is plenty for me to not give noob passes anymore and I find this a weird thing for you to pick out of this post to nitpick

Again I just thought it was interesting that someone who explicitly mentions they like mechanics wouldn't bring up one of the most obvious applications of this. It's not some secret only wolves could come up with. And, as pointed out to me by TE herself, she DID mention it and I had missed it, so it doesn't matter anyway

Edit, forgot this one. This is my 5th game. That’s not a mechanic I’ve heard of, seems like an easy way for wolves to get extra kills if they just have to guess village for vast majority of people?

Spoiler

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View attachment 333675View attachment 333676

Zenge didn’t seem super lurky, but I agree he’s not as active as usual.
the biggest pause I have with him is he’s like the easiest misyeet bait for wolves in the world that wolves will jump on. I mean I got him yeeted when he was jailer and people still thought I was village.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Eh I was busy and on mobile. I have no idea what shorty or doc E are yet, but I would say they are not W/W. They’re both people to keep an eye on for now. I’ve never played with Doc E but he’s being pretty aggressive. Could be genuine statements about shorty, trying to throw fake shade on a villager, or making a big distraction. And Shorty is either an innocent villager getting caught in his crosshairs, or there’s something to it, because she’s not acting normal.

*in before I get called hedgey for being open about my thought process on 2 players I don’t have a read on yet but was asked for.

I don't really like that you're following Cray's statement of "she's not acting normal." She literally says that about Shorty every game when nothing has changed. Nothing has struck me as particularly off about Shorty this game. Why do you think she's not acting like her village meta?

Besides those, I have limited reads because it’s early and there’s 62729 million people.

Visc, Finnick, cray, and Enigma are village leans for me.

zenge is wolf lean as I said with my vote.

Why is Finnick a village lean? I haven't felt much about them in either direction yet.

It’s a little much but I don’t know if that makes him a wolf. Like I said, he’s being very aggressive towards her.

tbh it doesn’t sound nice so I wasn’t going to comment, but even though I was sometimes cringing, shorty frequently fights with me, and is a disciple of AM, and I philosophically disagree with both of their play styles. So I think you are wrong to say that’s out of character for me not to rush to white knight her like Z did.

No. My point was he’s not really contributing. Just defending his IRL significant other. Don’t think it says much about shorty that he is.

Zenge's DocE posts sounded a lot more like going against DocE than supporting Shorty, at least in my perspective. And I agree with him on a lot of the points he made against DocE.

 

[Aprilthearab]

I'm not going to put my vote on Zenge today. Although I feel like his posts have been pingy, I'm starting to think I was letting some of the last game's sus roll over into this one. I feel a lot less strongly about him wolfing this game than I did last game. He hasn't come after me at all as opposed to the last game when he got really heated any time I put any kind of pressure on him. There has been a little bit of fluff but not really the hedginess I remember.

He's a great villager when he's a villager and I want more of a reason to yeet him if I'm going to do that. Last game I would have gladly flipped him D1 but this time I'm a lot less confident it wouldn't be a misyeet. And that would be a horrible misyeet if it is, and a great asset to wolves.

Would much rather see a DocE flip.

 

[The_Breadmann]

Weird because you were on yesterday, just not posting.

Was I? Honestly do not remember besides trying to catch up piece by piece and as usual I am really good at getting distracted by everything...

 

[Barkley13]

I am working through everything and she is a higher poster. Also kinda wanted more clarification on this but not sure since sketchy behavior can then be covered up.

Clarification on what?

 

[Zenge142]

Clarification on what?

Other than Alissa, who are you wolf reading currently?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Besides those, I have limited reads because it’s early and there’s 62729 million people.

Visc, Finnick, cray, and Enigma are village leans for me.

zenge is wolf lean as I said with my vote.

Why do you have a village lean on Enigma?

 

[DocEspana]

Ah, no one wanted to open a PM with you?

I have one. I thought that's the limit. One person in your area.

 

[finnickthedog]

Just wome up. Will catch up soon. Only went for this post because I was quoted but...

I mean the reverse is always possible too--wolves not targeting people who ping as sketchy.

This is not the same. While yes wolves may likely avoid people we all think are sketchy we also have to talk about who is sketchy in order to determine who to oust and who might be a wolf. There's a benefit--and tbh a necessity--that well offsets the risk.

There's absolutely no benefit in my opinion to random stating or listing who we are thinking is villager when no one is even trying to oust them in the first place.

It's not like I've said village reads should never ever be mentioned. Certainly if someone is trying to oust someone you think is village or is talking about sketchy they are then absolutely people who are reading them village should say so.

It's the random listing that I feel is useless, only serves to harm the village, and is largely only done because it makes people feel like they're doing something useful when they aren't. The less people who did this the better imo.

You're welcome to feel differently about it, but it's not going to change my mind.

I'm going to stop banging on about this though (as long as people stop talking to me about it) because I don't think the side discussion is super productive now. The opinion has been stated. Y'all know how I feel. The end.

 

[PippyPony]

Day One - Green and Pleasant Land - Vote Tally

Capri () -
AM (1) - Ms P
Stagg (0) -
Sporty (0) -
Cray (0) -
Alissa (1) - Barks
Zenge (4) - genny, alissa, sunshine, cray
DocE (5) - April, Dina, zenge, alleycat, Shorty
April (2) - Dubz, Finn
Shorty (1) - DocE
Ms P (2) - bobloblaw, AM

@DocEspana you are in the lead
16/28 players voting
Voting closes in 11 hrs

 

[finnickthedog]

Caught up.

unoust April

I'm still keeping an eye here because I stand by my opinion that the initial logic seemed manufactured. I'm feeling better about her posts since though so I can back off for right now.

I'm not sure I understand the Zenge votes.

I do understand the DocE vote but I'm not convinced it's a good initial oust.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I must've missed it. How did you guys determine that Cray was on a post restriction?

 

[Animal Midwife]

I must've missed it. How did you guys determine that Cray was on a post restriction?

Typically, people will communicate mostly by their own typed words if they have the ability to do so. Her exclusively using images and recycled quotes instead strongly alludes to restricted posting capabilities.

 

[WildZoo]

I have one. I thought that's the limit. One person in your area.

You can only open one with one person but if someone(s) else in your area decide to open theirs with you, you can end up with multiple

Caught up.

unoust April

I'm still keeping an eye here because I stand by my opinion that the initial logic seemed manufactured. I'm feeling better about her posts since though so I can back off for right now.

I'm not sure I understand the Zenge votes.

I do understand the DocE vote but I'm not convinced it's a good initial oust.

What made you feel better about April?

 

[Zenge142]

What made you feel better about April?

Who else are you wolf reading other than April?

 

[alissa14]

Unyeet zenge
I need to re evaluate... I’m not feeling the DocE wagon either and I’m thinking it’s a difference in play style that’s rubbing people the wrong way. So far shorty, genny, TME, april, alley, samac and Dina are village leans for me.

zenge I’d love to know why your read of me includes the reason “vote switch” when I didn’t do that this game and you never called me out on it before?

barks why are you still voting for me? I’d love to see more from you as well

 

[Animal Midwife]

Unyeet zenge
I need to re evaluate... I’m not feeling the DocE wagon either and I’m thinking it’s a difference in play style that’s rubbing people the wrong way. So far shorty, genny, TME, april, alley, samac and Dina are village leans for me.

zenge I’d love to know why your read of me includes the reason “vote switch” when I didn’t do that this game and you never called me out on it before?

barks why are you still voting for me? I’d love to see more from you as well

Why are you village reading Enigma?

 

[finnickthedog]

You can only open one with one person but if someone(s) else in your area decide to open theirs with you, you can end up with multiple

What made you feel better about April?

When she was posting initially her reasoning seemed made up and that's why I voted for her. I'm not continuing to get that feeling as the cycle goes on so I think observing her for now may be the better option than immediately ousting her.

 

[Aprilthearab]

I must've missed it. How did you guys determine that Cray was on a post restriction?

Her first post of the cycle was an image of someone with tape over their mouth, and since then all her posts have been Doctor Who photos lol can't get more straightforward than that

 

[LetItSnow]

This post scares me. It feels insincere that you’re now campaigning that not wanting it is a good sign when you were strongly pointing out how much scrutiny is on the role (i.e. how much more scary it can be for wolves than for villagers). Pre-emptively calling out your own sus-looking inconsistency and playing it off with a joke really makes me worry. Also, calling it humility could also be pockety.

samac wasn’t saying she doesn’t want the position, btw. She was saying she wants it less than she wants to make sure village does get a PM (trying to avoid unpredictable punishment for creating a tie). That does seem village to me, especially considering that her earlier campaigning was forceful and I’m convinced she sincerely wanted it.

If she were to suddenly flip from “put me in, coach!!! I’m ready!!!!” to “oh no just elect MsP instead 👉👈”, imo that would be a bad sign, so I don’t know why you apparently read “not wanting it” as village in this situation

Nah. It read as pretty typical DocE. Which is to say, NAI.

[Lookit me learning yer new-fangled terms.]

Thanks for 20 pages, all. *puts head in hands*

 

[LetItSnow]

Imma make this common knowledge it’s from my role PM:
I do get to break ties. And tomorrow I move to London.
All that hard work to get April to PM me destroyed.
On the bright side folks in London I’ll be there tomorrow and I love PMs? So folks in London...

Hm. Is there some value in everyone in the city establishing a PM with Samac?

Gives a little bit of a complete communication loop that doesn't leave anyone out to hide. And presumably someone with appropriate abilities will investigate Samac early so we can be relatively confident in her villageryness.

Or is that overly complicated and not useful?

 

[Zenge142]

zenge I’d love to know why your read of me includes the reason “vote switch”

It was this one

Unelect SAR
Elect el doctor de España (DocE)

Just before this you posted your reasoning, which was saying you could get behind the logic Cray was using for voting for DocE, but overall I didn’t think the logic made any sense. She was acknowledging he was sketchy and didn’t trust him and then voting to give him more power. So your jumping on the vote too pinged me a little bit.

 

[samac]

Hm. Is there some value in everyone in the city establishing a PM with Samac?

Gives a little bit of a complete communication loop that doesn't leave anyone out to hide. And presumably someone with appropriate abilities will investigate Samac early so we can be relatively confident in her villageryness.

Or is that overly complicated and not useful?

I’m hoping someone in London can confirm my village-ness and whoever that is I can get a safe chat going with them.

 

[LetItSnow]

can anyone else tell work is slow tonight?

You are, in point of fact, wrong. Work was very definitely not slow Saturday night. Or any night this [expletive] weekend.

I did, however, learn from a client this morning that an abdominal ultrasound is used to look at, among other things, the pituitary gland. I clearly should have paid closer attention during anatomy.

 

[LetItSnow]

Speaking of ties and votes in general. I have some worries on how this royals votes not counting thing is going to mess with VCA and yeet votes in general considering how tonight played out.

Huge f'ing concerns. I feel like the spreadsheet people will figure it out, though.

... I'm just not yet sure if it's something that benefits village more than wolves to figure out, or the other way around.

 

[LetItSnow]

I think their votes count in yeet cycles so only mayoral will be skewed.

I agree with this. It specifically said "public elections." A lynch is not an election.

I realize I just posted something about the spreadsheet. That was my first reaction. Then I read AM's post and went back and re-read the Pippy post in question, and saw "elections".

So. In my mind it's resolved.

 

[WildZoo]

Who else are you wolf reading other than April?

Sunny and meats. I don't feel great about cray but holding on that until she can talk. Cyndia is floating around in there too.

 

[Aprilthearab]

I’m not feeling the DocE wagon either and I’m thinking it’s a difference in play style that’s rubbing people the wrong way.

The difference in play style definitely rubs me the wrong way, but he's also apparently difficult to read and often a policy yeet. And if he's village, I don't find him to be particularly helpful. Sure it helps "stir up conversation" but at best all I've really gathered from that is he clashes with a lot of people except for Cray and at worst it muddies up the thread with repetitive fights regarding the same people for the same reasons and creates a huge distraction. Conversation can be had much more civilly in a way that's actually enjoyable to play.