England - Game Thread

[alissa14]

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Who even is all in your POE?

capri, vis, maybe alley, barks and zenge, you and finn have to do with the theory.
village is SAR and samac for me. village lean genny and dina
need more from sporty
neutral dubz, shorty, docE

 

[alissa14]

Do you have a problem with the people on it?

no i actually agree with it. it was just anti climactic for how much you made everyone wait

 

[Crayola227]

Particularly interested in why you feel worse about those comments and takes than some of the people who have barely posted at all or flat out haven't posted.

Here I was saying it was wolfy that he was basically saying someone should vote for a lurker rather than a wolfread based on actual posts.

 

[Crayola227]

Forewarning I likely will not be tallying because that's way too many terms for me to accurately keep track of quickly.

This is so wolfy coming from you, because I don't buy it.

 

[Crayola227]

M

The second image is of the master torturing the doctor and her profile pic is the doctor so I think you’re right.

My profile pic was the Doctor before the restriction fwiw

 

[Animal Midwife]

capri, vis, maybe alley, barks and zenge, you and finn have to do with the theory.
village is SAR and samac for me. village lean genny and dina
need more from sporty
neutral dubz, shorty, docE

Why'd you list neutrals without a full list? And you mention "the theory" again which leads me to believe it has to do with a "wolf in this group". finn, samac, and I were the only ones in the group. So you can't say you're not literally following the one wolf in this group theory.

 

[Crayola227]

Oh god the gambling has become too intense. Now we're betting our lives.

Russian Roulette baby all the way!!

 

[Animal Midwife]

no i actually agree with it. it was just anti climactic for how much you made everyone wait

You agree with it? Am I bussing then? And no one had to wait. I've been posting my thoughts all day and you kept trying to divert my pushes for no reason.

 

[Crayola227]

Did you really just say the bolded?

This feels a little like AM trying to twist words.

 

[Animal Midwife]

This feels a little like AM trying to twist words.

How is that twisted? I literally highlighted her own words, in context, and asked her what she meant by it.

 

[Crayola227]

Okay, here's a tip for winning. Stop tunneling shorty.

Ok, but what's funny is that post wasn't even about voting Shorty. I'm relying to things. Not sure at the end of it I'm going to still wolf read Shorty. But DocE wasn't wrong at time he sais the things he said. That's all. There was plenty of strategic thoughts in there, and the process could serve us to finding a wolf, even if that wold isn't Shorty.

Way to miss the point, AM. You seem like you're doing that wolfy thing about misinterpretation to make people look worse than they are.

 

[DocEspana]

Ok, but what's funny is that post wasn't even about voting Shorty. I'm relying to things. Not sure at the end of it I'm going to still wolf read Shorty. But DocE wasn't wrong at time he sais the things he said. That's all. There was plenty of strategic thoughts in there, and the process could serve us to finding a wolf, even if that wold isn't Shorty.

Way to miss the point, AM. You seem like you're doing that wolfy thing about misinterpretation to make people look worse than they are.

You're manna out of the butt of a unicorn.

 

[Crayola227]

Because you keep changing your story for why you're yeeting me. You're trying to get a misyeet and have shown me no edivence you're actually evaluating the game outside of keeping yourself threat-free.

First reason was because I wasn't doing enough by "page 25".
Next it was because I need to "stop pressuring MsP".
Later it was because I need to "share my thought process"
Further out it was because "my thoughts weren't in an organized list"
Even further out it was because I need to "stop pressuring Enigma"
Now it's because "hidden theory" and I was "pressuring Stagg"

Do you see the problem with moving goalposts? If you were village, you wouldn't be simultaneously badgering me to do more than getting upset when I make more efforts toward gamesolving.

Who even is all in your POE?

This is pretty good post and points from AM tho

 

[Animal Midwife]

Ok, but what's funny is that post wasn't even about voting Shorty. I'm relying to things. Not sure at the end of it I'm going to still wolf read Shorty. But DocE wasn't wrong at time he sais the things he said. That's all. There was plenty of strategic thoughts in there, and the process could serve us to finding a wolf, even if that wold isn't Shorty.

Way to miss the point, AM. You seem like you're doing that wolfy thing about misinterpretation to make people look worse than they are.

How is ending a tunnel making anyone look worse? Like I thought you were still stuck there. If you're willing to agree shorty is village, then we're done here.

 

[alissa14]

Because you keep changing your story for why you're yeeting me. You're trying to get a misyeet and have shown me no edivence you're actually evaluating the game outside of keeping yourself threat-free.

First reason was because I wasn't doing enough by "page 25".
Next it was because I need to "stop pressuring MsP".
Later it was because I need to "share my thought process"
Further out it was because "my thoughts weren't in an organized list"
Even further out it was because I need to "stop pressuring Enigma"
Now it's because "hidden theory" and I was "pressuring Stagg"

Do you see the problem with moving goalposts? If you were village, you wouldn't be simultaneously badgering me to do more than getting upset when I make more efforts toward gamesolving.

Who even is all in your POE?

i just want to acknowledge this before I go to bed. First and foremost, I am sorry if I ever upset you thus far in the game. It was never my intention and I never want to be the type of player that makes the game miserable for another player. I guess my issue with your activity today is something seems off and more reasons for me to yeet you became more apparent (the list above). I never said you should stop pressuring MsP. It was more “she’s not back yet so why waste so much effort?” And Im not yeeting you because I think you pressuring stagg is a bad thing. I agree that some pressure needs to be applied there. I just thought there were better vote candidates and it didn’t seem like your vote for stagg was because you thought he was wolfy

 

[Crayola227]

I literally do not understand how so many of you either don't know or conveniently forgot what a pressure vote is. It's to get people to post. This is hardly the first game where pressure votes have been used.

This is the kind of post that reads as pure BS.

What people are saying is that if you're actually trying to make your pressure vote most effective, don't immediately let on that is what it is. There comes a point to explain to village it was a pressure vote if that is what you're thinking, but that point isn't usually at the very moment you place it.

Also it doesn't make sense to me to pressure a player that has no history of purposefully lurking as a wolf, or being a lowposter, but does occasionally not show up to a game. The placement on Stagg, and the way you did, had all the makings of a nothing vote. That nothing, if you're wolf, can get you caught for trying to do nothing, which fake hunting wolves try to do a lot of. If you're village, then doing a nothing vote doesn't help you or anybody.

I don't say this to hurt you. If you are wolf or villager either way you can learn from this.

 

[DocEspana]

How is ending a tunnel making anyone look worse? Like I thought you were still stuck there. If you're willing to agree shorty is village, then we're done here.

If it's relevant, I'm not. That is still a big push. They are really REALLY taking criticism of them poorly. But I have other fish to fry depending on how tonight goes. But "shorty is village" is a big leap for someone who is closer to "not definitely a wolf".

Also I could go back and quote them but it's not worth the attention right now: but they used ad homeneim wrong. Those criticisms are valid. They just got extremely worked up over them. And you know what? 75% of that level of worked up is my goal because that's someone outside of their comfort zone. The 100% I got was...wow. I mean. I enjoyed it but also it was A LOT. And now I wonder if maybe it was too much protesting.

But again: bigger fish may need frying

 

[alissa14]

Why'd you list neutrals without a full list? And you mention "the theory" again which leads me to believe it has to do with a "wolf in this group". finn, samac, and I were the only ones in the group. So you can't say you're not literally following the one wolf in this group theory.

Neutral means they’ve posted a lot but I haven’t put them in either pile. Anyone not mentioned likely hasn’t posted enough for me to form an opinion on. I’m pretty set on samac being village. April flipped village. So that leaves a 50/50 split between you and Finn and I think you’re the wolfier of the two

 

[supershorty]

Also it doesn't make sense to me to pressure a player that has no history of purposefully lurking as a wolf, or being a lowposter, but does occasionally not show up to a game. The placement on Stagg, and the way you did, had all the makings of a nothing vote.

Cool, guess what, I'VE NEVER PLAYED WITH STAGG. Sorry I don't have every vet's meta memorized. Some of y'all should be careful that you don't hurt yourself on your stretches, between trying to act like my saying something was weird was throwing shade (you want to guess how many times I've said that in all my games, because I'll search it and find out) and this fixation on a pressure vote.

 

[Crayola227]

B

if we're going to spend 2 yeets on finn vs. AM like samac wants, a vig would really help cut down that time.

But should we do want samac wants?

 

[alissa14]

This is the kind of post that reads as pure BS.

What people are saying is that if you're actually trying to make your pressure vote most effective, don't immediately let on that is what it is. There comes a point to explain to village it was a pressure vote if that is what you're thinking, but that point isn't usually at the very moment you place it.

Also it doesn't make sense to me to pressure a player that has no history of purposefully lurking as a wolf, or being a lowposter, but does occasionally not show up to a game. The placement on Stagg, and the way you did, had all the makings of a nothing vote. That nothing, if you're wolf, can get you caught for trying to do nothing, which fake hunting wolves try to do a lot of. If you're village, then doing a nothing vote doesn't help you or anybody.

I don't say this to hurt you. If you are wolf or villager either way you can learn from this.

What do you think of AM’s final vote on stagg?

But should we do want samac wants?

this probably doesn’t help at all lol but I want to see those two flip also

 

[Animal Midwife]

i just want to acknowledge this before I go to bed. First and foremost, I am sorry if I ever upset you thus far in the game. It was never my intention and I never want to be the type of player that makes the game miserable for another player. I guess my issue with your activity today is something seems off and more reasons for me to yeet you became more apparent (the list above). I never said you should stop pressuring MsP. It was more “she’s not back yet so why waste so much effort?” And Im not yeeting you because I think you pressuring stagg is a bad thing. I agree that some pressure needs to be applied there. I just thought there were better vote candidates and it didn’t seem like your vote for stagg was because you thought he was wolfy

Okay. Again, the reason for yeeting Stagg was direct attached to the yeet vote itself and in posts leading up to said vote while interacting with him. And who are these better candidates that I should have been yeeting given you just agreed with my POE?

 

[Crayola227]

Because it looked like DocE might actually get elected, which I maintain would be a bad idea.

This feels almost like a 180, like you never voted for him because it would be "interesting."

 

[Crayola227]

still getting a feel for his playstyle. Didn't really follow his reasoning for wanting to be PM. I don't know that I'd go as hard as he is on shorty, but as mentioned i do kinda see where he's coming from. It's clear that theres royalty shenanigans involved in the votes for him/SAR, but i'm not sure if it's based on who ran or who voted. And while i do like overall mechanics talk (looks like my tinfoil was right after all) I do think I should be more careful about speculating too publicly into who the exact royals are, since some of them are likely village affiliated and outing them could bring them harm


Since I didn't play bioshock i might have just missed a step in natural evolution from noob to more experienced player. I do think that some of her non-questioning posts this game have served more to stop conversation than to advance it, I didn't get that feel in goats. And I still feel like there's an AM influence in the types of questions she asks, but that's not necessarily wolfy, just evolving.

What was your tinfoil that was right?

Also I felt Shorty was doing more to stop conversation as well.

At this point I'm making my case because I was accused of a lot of things while restricted.

 

[alissa14]

Okay. Again, the reason for yeeting Stagg was direct attached to the yeet vote itself and in posts leading up to said vote while interacting with him. And who are these better candidates that I should have been yeeting given you just agreed with my POE?

I will retract my argument for stagg after re reading your post. I am guilty for not being around for vote close since I was near sure April would flip village and I didn’t like the DocE vote either. I cannot fault you for voting stagg, who you thought was wolfy, even if nobody else agreed with you. It’s similar to why I voted for you. I think you’re wolfy, but not enough agreed with me.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I will retract my argument for stagg after re reading your post. I am guilty for not being around for vote close since I was near sure April would flip village and I didn’t like the DocE vote either. I cannot fault you for voting stagg, who you thought was wolfy, even if nobody else agreed with you. It’s similar to why I voted for you. I think you’re wolfy, but not enough agreed with me.

So what exactly is your issue with me then? Everything we've talked about tonight has ended with you agreeing I made a reasonable move.

 

[Crayola227]

The mod LITERALLY wrote that the royals can't vote in the rules. And it's somehow not logically consistent for me to TRUST the mods and what they said were rules?

That the game showed that apparently the mods didn't mean what they literally wrote is sort of irrelevant to me being shocked an hour or two into the game that their literal words shouldn't be taken literally. Maybe I'm from an older mod lineage but I always thought modgod words were law and the fun was in finding the wording loopholes. There wasn't a loophole there, the mods just didn't mean what they wrote.

This almost feels like a stretch, like overstated. I can see the confusion, but the rest is too much.

 

[Crayola227]

I mean the mod also literally wrote that there are benefits and drawbacks to sharing your role class. Seems to me that it would be super counterproductive for the game mechanics to then immediately out all the royals by not including them in tallies even though their votes don't really count.

Yeah in retrospect has me feeling worse about DocE.

 

[DocEspana]

This almost feels like a stretch, like overstated. I can see the confusion, but the rest is too much.

Let me then ask this: if I couldn't win would I actually push so hard to try to win? Why bother with all that effort?

Actually. Maybe I would. Bad example. Because at least one of myself and that other person definitely did exactly that. But still, is a lot of effort to go through if I was a royal.

 

[DocEspana]

Yeah in retrospect has me feeling worse about DocE.

Nah. It's honestly me trying to come in second assuming whomever was in first wouldn't be a royal as well and I'd get automatically assumed to not be a royal and get myself some cover if people are sniffig out royals. No one would know I was a royal since I finished second but did something that royals wouldn't do - try to win a vote I can't win.

That the person in front of me was also ineligible basically gave away that we are both royals. Me being coy about it in the post above isn't needed. It's sort of obvious.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Nah. It's honestly me trying to come in second assuming whomever was in first wouldn't be a royal as well and I'd get automatically assumed to not be a royal and get myself some cover if people are sniffig out royals. No one would know I was a royal since I finished second but did something that royals wouldn't do - try to win a vote I can't win.

That the person in front of me was also ineligible basically gave away that we are both royals. Me being coy about it in the post above isn't needed. It's sort of obvious.

That's what I thought. Didn't want to put it on thread in case you guys were targeted

 

[Crayola227]

Nah. It's honestly me trying to come in second assuming whomever was in first wouldn't be a royal as well and I'd get automatically assumed to not be a royal and get myself some cover if people are sniffig out royals. No one would know I was a royal since I finished second but did something that royals wouldn't do - try to win a vote I can't win.

That the person in front of me was also ineligible basically gave away that we are both royals. Me being coy about it in the post above isn't needed. It's sort of obvious.

Lol obvious and I totally missed it ha

 

[Crayola227]

@Animal Midwife

Never has a beer tasted so much like chocolate milk. Truly delicious.

 

[genny]

B
But should we do want samac wants?

Idk maybe some stuff will happen overnight. Even if one of the two is a wolf, there are still others out there and I don’t think all the attention needs to be focused on either/or with AM and Finn.

 

[genny]

Quoting to see if this happened.

Didn’t happen. And you were about 30 minutes too early - I wasn’t off work yet when you posted.

 

[Crayola227]

The one on day 0 wasn’t real. I needed a real one.

A real joke salt vote? While technically it's D1, enough has happened for real votes, not a SECOND salty joke vote.

 

[Crayola227]

How/why would it?

Every time I read this it makes me squint.

 

[Crayola227]

Because roles and abilities and classes all are going to impact the way people play. so someone might seem weird to me because they're a wolf, or they could be a villager with a class modifier that I don't understand that is influencing their decision making/ strategy. there may be within-class trends that look like wolfpack trends, etc. It seems like there's several layers of complexity to this game, so it's gonna be more complicated than wolf vs. not wolf. I think a focus on wolves is obviously the best starting point, I just want to be nuanced with my reads when possible

This was reasonable except the part about wolf vs not wolf. LIS rule if it isn't village it must die hasn't ever let me down.

 

[Crayola227]

I don't understand this part. Is this implying that people know who's in their class? Because otherwise how would there be trends within classes that look like wolfpack trends?

This whole Barks/TME interaction makes me super uncomfy.

 

[Crayola227]

I find the way the election went odd and I'm wary of both DocE and SAR because of it, but also kind of feeling like since there were two of them that maybe that means it's not wolfy. Or at least that they aren't both wolves even if one is.

Other than that, no.

Finn has that feel like she's almost reluctant to speak, but it's been too long for me to know if that's her wolf meta.

 

[WildZoo]

@Crayola227 wolf reads besides maybe shorty?

 

[Crayola227]

I’ve actually been less involved this game so far lol, just posting more often (but much less content per post so less content overall... there hasn’t been much I’ve found worth saying). I don’t really expect villagers to keep accurate tabs on exactly how much everyone is posting so I don’t find it particularly wolfy that you got that impression, but I don’t want village points for something I’m not doing... those feel like dangerous village points.

Having a hard time leaning this post. Her point about herself and there not being stuff to say leans wolf, but pointing it out feels village. Wifom for days. It made me lean wolf on April, but now one wonders if that was the intent? Would Vis risk it?

 

[Crayola227]

@Crayola227 wolf reads besides maybe shorty?

What's funny is that's sandwiched where I'm talking about other players.

I'm doing PbPa, so to some extent the logic progression will not reflect current gamestate. This is how I form the reads but it isn't done until I'm caught up.

 

[WildZoo]

What's funny is that's sandwiched where I'm talking about other players.

I'm doing PbPa, so to some extent the logic progression will not reflect current gamestate. This is how I form the reads but it isn't done until I'm caught up.

Were you not following along while you were restricted? I assumed you were, that's why I asked.

 

[Crayola227]

But that isn’t a reason to suspect her, just as much as it isn’t a reason to clear her. She’s a valuable villager who often brings fresh insights who I really don’t want misyeeted. We need to look for what her wolf and village tells actually are. Wolf interactions are a big one for her iirc; I’m not sure what parts of her own posting style and tone are telling. I do find that she sounds a bit more sincerely interested and less impartial this game than during bioshock, but it’s not a strong feeling.

This is also a very good insight into my wolf meta. Impartial and detached is exactly how I felt 90% of the time I was posting in that game, it felt weird. And keeping up interest in fake wolfhunting for 36 hours not 12 is exhausting.

 

[Crayola227]

Were you not following along while you were restricted? I assumed you were, that's why I asked.

I did, but without writing down my reactions, my ability to form reads is limited. I don't absorb the same way. Being able to like posts really helped somewhat.

For now, off top of head, without fully ingesting posts to confirm/refute these feelings:

Concerned about samac, AM, alissa, mkg, Finn DocE, WZ, MsP, Stagg, Visc, Zenge, Dina, LIS.

That's a lot, but this isn't refined or in order, and there's presumably a fair # of wolves, although I haven't done math yet. If we think 5 at least, then 10 suspects would be my personal goal, then to have 3 top POE.

 

[Crayola227]

If quoting into mod PM was easier I would have PbPa into there.

 

[Crayola227]

Did @Ms Procrastinator ever explain the last minute mayor waffle onto DocE?

Add VMH to list of concerns

 

[Crayola227]

Well like I just posted, I really don't think shorty/DocE is w/w 🤣
Cray seems to be herself, but I read her wrong last time so I'm pretty cautious of her, I also didn't like her flipping onto the DocE vote yesterday after saying that his posts pinged her. getting silenced in the middle of the day is also a bit odd.
People definitely bought their tinfoil in bulk before this game, and while TME and Vissy's ideas are interesting, I just cant decide if they are actually helpful at the moment with what little information we have

This reads a little like her speed game wolf attempts to shade people

 

[Crayola227]

I like mechanics as well, just curious why your first thoughts went for thinking about how modifiers might make someone sketchy rather than how they might make someone a target for additional night kills from wolves, which is a common mechanic associated with secret role categories

Oh whoops. Same question stands for them then

I agree the thinking is a bit odd. Reads more like a personal worry about being misyeeted.