England - Game Thread

[genny]

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Let's talk about why I would have bothered starting an alternate wagon either day when there were already viable wagons on the board.

I don't pussyfoot around my packmates' wagons when I'm wolfing. It's either bus or save, overwhelmingly more often the latter. I don't spend hours and hours pushing the logic that leads to them being voted. Again, you know this.

Alternate wagon = failed save
I think I’m going to sit here a while and think about what I’ve done.

 

[Stagg737]

No I'm just a sucker. I thought she did a good job defending. Made me feel real bad.

No feelings allowed in WW. Just feelz.

AM typically doesn't bus, and she definitely didn't need to. She also was the first to correctly point out that the vig shot was most likely a wolf - which turned out to be true and helped keep the vote on mkg.

If it isn't her then it has to be Finn. Even if the teapot theory is wrong, Finn is an attractive vote candidate based on VCA - for reasons I said above.

This has neither been confirmed, nor should it give AM any kind of cred regardless of vig affiliation. However, I agree that Finn is looking more and more like a solid vote.

It was proven likely true when mkg flipped wolf. If it was just a bad vig shot, then it didn't implicate mkg at all. Even maybe cleared her.

What? None of this is true

What you’re saying is dumb and impossible literally happened in emojis. And wolves won.

Actually, Finn's logic and analysis are the closest to correct I've seen. Mayo's analysis makes no sense at all unless he's assuming the wolves are complete idiots. I may very well drop a vote on Finn though, as there's enough other things implicating her and she's experienced enough to maaaaaybe (biiiiiig maybe here) to pull a wolf vig then point out how bad of a move it would be.

Z was pushing pretty hard. If you knew you were seered as a wolf, isn't that where you would look?

I lost to a seer in the noob game this year. I absolutely would have shot her (or had my pack do it) early in the day before she role revealed if I had the chance. Worst case scenario it is trading 1 wolf for 1 PR vs 1 wolf for nothing.

Too many assumptions here. Wolves would have to know that someone actually gained seer info on them (not confirmed), they'd need to know that Zenge is the one receiving that information (not known), and they'd have to be willing to use the vig on Zenge knowing that MKG has been a huge candidate to go down 2 days in a row.

IF Samac is village, then it's not completely unreasonable to hope she'd come back to defend or soft-clear MKG. But Apparently Dubz already shared that the role was essentially NAI (which oh look, it was made up/a cover anyway), so a pretty soft thing to rely on. Zenge flipping village can only be seen as NAI or shady, there's no situation I can think of where using a vig on Zenge could give MKG or Bread village cred. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

If it was a wolf vig, it would have been dumb to use the vig at that point instead of waiting until closer to day-close with the hope that they could push votes off of MKG. Even if it looks like MKG is going down, they could just use the vig on Zenge later or even try and NK him and save the vig for later (riskier IF they knew Zenge got seer info, again a big IF). Only was this was good timing if Bread is also a wolf to try and get some attention off of him, but with how things shook out I'm not convinced of that and probably a bit less comfortable with having Bread in the wolf pile. Need to go back and look at a vote tracker to be sure though. In which case they may have tried to save a wolf and prevent 2 from going down.

In addition to all of this, if the write-up for the vig kill holds any relevant meaning, it's strongly suggestive that the vig was a villager and that they were somehow passed incorrect information which led to the kill. Less likely but still possible, vig could have been a villager suspicious of both Zenge and MKG with greater suspicion of Zenge trying to narrow their POE. That's a stretch though and not something I'm particularly inclined to chase. There's also the solid possibility that vig was 3P.

Regardless, until the vig flips this is all speculation and not a rabbithole I'm going to go further down at this point.

 

[genny]

@genny how you reading mayo?

Idk, sounds ok so far. Shorty sounded more village in PM. Though I always have at least one or two nagging doubts.

 

[PippyPony]

Day 4 - The Black Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (3) - Mayo, samac, alley
Sunshine (2) - Dubz, barks
Alissa (1) - AM
Dubz (2) - genny, cray

@finnickthedog you are in the lead
8/19 players voting
voting closes at 9pm tomorrow

 

[WildZoo]

Alternate wagon = failed save
I think I’m going to sit here a while and think about what I’ve done.

Yeah, because so many other people were wolf reading dina, really a good vote to go for in an attempt to save a packmate that already had accumulated several votes.

I maintain it makes zero sense for me to heep so much suspicion on mkg and not stick around long enough to get the credit for it.

 

[genny]

Day 4 - The Black Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (3) - Mayo, samac, alley
Sunshine (3) - Dubz, DocE, barks
Alissa (1) - AM
Dubz (2) - genny, cray

@finnickthedog @sunshinefl you are tied
9/19 players voting
voting closes at 9pm tomorrow

Day 4 - The Black Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (3) - Mayo, samac, alley
Sunshine (2) - Dubz, barks
Alissa (1) - AM
Dubz (1) - genny

@finnickthedog you are in the lead
7/19 players voting
voting closes at 9pm tomorrow

Am I missing posts?

 

[PippyPony]

Am I missing posts?

No, i think I just quoted the wrong tally. Hold on, I'll fix

edit: i think that should be fixed?

 

[Animal Midwife]

No feelings allowed in WW. Just feelz.



This has neither been confirmed, nor should it give AM any kind of cred regardless of vig affiliation. However, I agree that Finn is looking more and more like a solid vote.



What? None of this is true



Actually, Finn's logic and analysis are the closest to correct I've seen. Mayo's analysis makes no sense at all unless he's assuming the wolves are complete idiots. I may very well drop a vote on Finn though, as there's enough other things implicating her and she's experienced enough to maaaaaybe (biiiiiig maybe here) to pull a wolf vig then point out how bad of a move it would be.



Too many assumptions here. Wolves would have to know that someone actually gained seer info on them (not confirmed), they'd need to know that Zenge is the one receiving that information (not known), and they'd have to be willing to use the vig on Zenge knowing that MKG has been a huge candidate to go down 2 days in a row.

IF Samac is village, then it's not completely unreasonable to hope she'd come back to defend or soft-clear MKG. But Apparently Dubz already shared that the role was essentially NAI (which oh look, it was made up/a cover anyway), so a pretty soft thing to rely on. Zenge flipping village can only be seen as NAI or shady, there's no situation I can think of where using a vig on Zenge could give MKG or Bread village cred. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

If it was a wolf vig, it would have been dumb to use the vig at that point instead of waiting until closer to day-close with the hope that they could push votes off of MKG. Even if it looks like MKG is going down, they could just use the vig on Zenge later or even try and NK him and save the vig for later (riskier IF they knew Zenge got seer info, again a big IF). Only was this was good timing if Bread is also a wolf to try and get some attention off of him, but with how things shook out I'm not convinced of that and probably a bit less comfortable with having Bread in the wolf pile. Need to go back and look at a vote tracker to be sure though. In which case they may have tried to save a wolf and prevent 2 from going down.

In addition to all of this, if the write-up for the vig kill holds any relevant meaning, it's strongly suggestive that the vig was a villager and that they were somehow passed incorrect information which led to the kill. Less likely but still possible, vig could have been a villager suspicious of both Zenge and MKG with greater suspicion of Zenge trying to narrow their POE. That's a stretch though and not something I'm particularly inclined to chase. There's also the solid possibility that vig was 3P.

Regardless, until the vig flips this is all speculation and not a rabbithole I'm going to go further down at this point.

Wow. Another post where you missed a player being dead.

 

[WildZoo]

No feelings allowed in WW. Just feelz.



This has neither been confirmed, nor should it give AM any kind of cred regardless of vig affiliation. However, I agree that Finn is looking more and more like a solid vote.



What? None of this is true



Actually, Finn's logic and analysis are the closest to correct I've seen. Mayo's analysis makes no sense at all unless he's assuming the wolves are complete idiots. I may very well drop a vote on Finn though, as there's enough other things implicating her and she's experienced enough to maaaaaybe (biiiiiig maybe here) to pull a wolf vig then point out how bad of a move it would be.



Too many assumptions here. Wolves would have to know that someone actually gained seer info on them (not confirmed), they'd need to know that Zenge is the one receiving that information (not known), and they'd have to be willing to use the vig on Zenge knowing that MKG has been a huge candidate to go down 2 days in a row.

IF Samac is village, then it's not completely unreasonable to hope she'd come back to defend or soft-clear MKG. But Apparently Dubz already shared that the role was essentially NAI (which oh look, it was made up/a cover anyway), so a pretty soft thing to rely on. Zenge flipping village can only be seen as NAI or shady, there's no situation I can think of where using a vig on Zenge could give MKG or Bread village cred. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

If it was a wolf vig, it would have been dumb to use the vig at that point instead of waiting until closer to day-close with the hope that they could push votes off of MKG. Even if it looks like MKG is going down, they could just use the vig on Zenge later or even try and NK him and save the vig for later (riskier IF they knew Zenge got seer info, again a big IF). Only was this was good timing if Bread is also a wolf to try and get some attention off of him, but with how things shook out I'm not convinced of that and probably a bit less comfortable with having Bread in the wolf pile. Need to go back and look at a vote tracker to be sure though. In which case they may have tried to save a wolf and prevent 2 from going down.

In addition to all of this, if the write-up for the vig kill holds any relevant meaning, it's strongly suggestive that the vig was a villager and that they were somehow passed incorrect information which led to the kill. Less likely but still possible, vig could have been a villager suspicious of both Zenge and MKG with greater suspicion of Zenge trying to narrow their POE. That's a stretch though and not something I'm particularly inclined to chase. There's also the solid possibility that vig was 3P.

Regardless, until the vig flips this is all speculation and not a rabbithole I'm going to go further down at this point.

How fast were you driving when you bussed mkg? Seemed slower than usual.

 

[Barkley13]

Only was this was good timing if Bread is also a wolf to try and get some attention off of him, but with how things shook out I'm not convinced of that and probably a bit less comfortable with having Bread in the wolf pile.

Bruh

 

[WildZoo]

Wow. Another post where you missed a player being dead.

Third time's the charm

 

[Crayola227]

Not saying I like the dislike, because I think it's meh, but it doesn't change reaction score. Only inappropriate does, to my knowledge.

OK sorry guys, I didn't believe you but I just checked the thread with Lee and you're right
Hahas, hugs also give a plus only. Only inappropriate takes away, but can also trigger moderation.

 

[PippyPony]

~~~~~~~~~
I'm all the moderation you need, baybayyy
~~~~~~~~~

 

[genny]

I think sunny's overall tone and reaction to things leans more towards her village range. Mkg is one of my four remaining neutrals.

Like my feels tell me he might be wrong on mkg but I don't think it's a wolfy wrong. He feels like Goats Zenge to me. You know, pre-rage quit 😉

Crap. My brain still wants to village read mkg but now I'm wondering if zenge had some info there.

Not 100% discounting the possibility that wolves killed zenge specifically to try to put more shade on mkg (however unnecessary that seems to me).

I don't know how else we move past it though. Like, days from now I feel like it would still be a question.

Like really if it is a wolf vig they could have shot zenge so there would be a bigger push to yeet you (mkg) and then if you flip village we go right back to bread because of the timing, and then hey maybe he's village too. Like 3 for 1 village kill special. I am not saying that's impossible, I'm saying it's a lot to try to think about and I don't know if there is a way forward from here without there continuing to be suspicion on you. I'd rather resolve that now than take that mystery to endgame.

Sorry, dubz, but I think this all falls within your wolf meta of soft deniable defenses of a wolfy packmate, just enough to get a little doubt in there, and then gently push the vote elsewhere. You're really really good at it as a wolf. And your action, not voting for mkg, doesn't fit with your words "I'd rather resolve that now." It's within your village range too, when you have self-doubt, which is what makes it work so well when you're wolfing. So I'm not offering to eat any hats over it, even the enchilada kind.

 

[Stagg737]

Just finished page 72. I will continue to read the thread chronologically so I don't skip more pages, but have irl stuff to do because I actually have a job. If I get to a write-up late, then I get to it late. Tough cookies. Ya'll can get my real-time opinions as I do a PbPa afterward or just get random thoughts I pull out of my a$$. Anyway,

Execute Alissa to keep things interesting

I had her D1 and I don't recall ever feeling better about her. I also like everyone on the board right now and would like to see where more votes fall.

Finnick makes sense whether we trust Samac's theory or not
Dubz is making me really uncomfortable and for some reason I've been getting flashbacks to Orchestra regarding their interactions. Dubz pis probably where I'd be most likely to switch my vote to
Also want to look into Sunny more. Curious about DocE and Lis dropping votes there and a few other things I forget

Also on the sketch side are Mayo and Samac. Didn't like Shorty's early play and other than Finn reasoning I don't see anything pointing them village other than possible late jump onto MKG. I'm also not buying a lot of what Samac is selling, but not where I'd drop my vote yet.

Also trying to figure out where I stand on Cray and AM. Something just feels off Cray and I'm actually having a hard time reading AM, which I don't like. I feel like I want to put her on the wolf side, but I'm agreeing with some specific reads that are giving me pause.

 

[Stagg737]

Will be back later, but for now hopefully gives a little insight into my thoughts.

 

[Crayola227]

Unless the entire pack miraculously has no concept of what kills mean, they already know she avoided. This is extremely basic. If they try again, they are fools.

Not true. I considered trying LIS again when it was only me in case his avoidance was one time only, and Dubz told us later that once it was just me a kill would have gone through. Were it not for flavor given with failed attempt I would have tried again and almost did.

If there's even a 10% chance the wolves are fools (remember Bioshock and all the Cray things leaving you speechless?) and might waste another NK that is worth going for when the info in question does nothing for villagers and only helps wolves.

Also I don't trust anyone with a NK avoidance that only makes them vulnerable to lynch. That to me means samac can't be taken to end game.

Seems the only thing she got for being PM is tie breaker, unless there's anything else about being PM that could help a wolf or 3P appear clean, in a game we don't even know if there's a full fledged seer. And I can't recall a game I've played with seer that didn't have roles or items that could help wolves evade that. In Bioshock there was a dummy, and wasn't Mkg this game ninja?

More commonly I've seen watcher or tracker. And as expected she was looked into early, and no wolf is gonna get PM and then do the faction kill the next night.

 

[Crayola227]

Well I can’t tell how it affects the react score because I changed it to different things (besides inappropriate) and I never saw the score change, even with a like. So I don’t know if the score is delayed or what. But I changed to angry for now. Which as I’ve said before to me is a stronger reaction than dislike.

Do as you like Sunny, sorry I was wrong about dislikes.

 

[Barkley13]

Well what I think is interesting is that there’s another person out there stealing stuff besides the sheriff

 

[Crayola227]

Lo

As brief side note on the dislike thing... personally I wouldn't care even if dislikes did lower reaction score. We all get our reactions scores padded by crayola so it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me. Though tbh I don't use most of the reactions anyway.

Ftfy
Lol I've had the problem mine goes down.

 

[genny]

Well what I think is interesting is that there’s another person out there stealing stuff besides the sheriff

Oh?

 

[Barkley13]

Oh?

Yeah not really sure what their goal is but I thought it was pretty rude

 

[Crayola227]

Yeah I'm always gonna beat down theories that have to do with finding a wolf based on location or name of role. Mods love to make villager code useless.

Only abilities are occasionally AI, and even then the flavor can be misleading, roles have endless variations, and ultimately it comes down to usage.

I mean I don't see why the Sheriff of Nottingham the wolf cartoon has to be a WW wolf, even with the shake down for coins that so far it doesn't sound like most players even have. That could be flavor all the way. Say it's a greedy villager character looking for coins where there are none. So what. Jailing can be villagey and so far it sounds like a jailer.

 

[genny]

Yeah not really sure what their goal is but I thought it was pretty rude

Did you get a description of the culprit? Did they take your teapot?

 

[Barkley13]

Did you get a description of the culprit? Did they take your teapot?

Not a description of the person but what I heard makes me think it’s a character from Harry Potter

 

[genny]

Not a description of the person but what I heard makes me think it’s a character from Harry Potter

Voldemort?

 

[Barkley13]

Voldemort?

It was not clear

 

[Animal Midwife]

Not true. I considered trying LIS again when it was only me in case his avoidance was one time only, and Dubz told us later that once it was just me a kill would have gone through. Were it not for flavor given with failed attempt I would have tried again and almost did.

If there's even a 10% chance the wolves are fools (remember Bioshock and all the Cray things leaving you speechless?) and might waste another NK that is worth going for when the info in question does nothing for villagers and only helps wolves.

Also I don't trust anyone with a NK avoidance that only makes them vulnerable to lynch. That to me means samac can't be taken to end game.

Seems the only thing she got for being PM is tie breaker, unless there's anything else about being PM that could help a wolf or 3P appear clean, in a game we don't even know if there's a full fledged seer. And I can't recall a game I've played with seer that didn't have roles or items that could help wolves evade that. In Bioshock there was a dummy, and wasn't Mkg this game ninja?

More commonly I've seen watcher or tracker. And as expected she was looked into early, and no wolf is gonna get PM and then do the faction kill the next night.

I'd prefer there was no seer as they make games too easy anyway. It's also (looping back to the election) why I treat choosing someone very seriously. Seers are risky to depend on, if they exist at all.

Ninja wouldn't evade seer though, that's for tracking/watching type roles.

 

[samac]

Chill. It's not like it was a no kill night. How were we supposed to know she was attacked at all without her saying something?

Edit: Just realized this AM quite was here. Accident.

Not true. I considered trying LIS again when it was only me in case his avoidance was one time only, and Dubz told us later that once it was just me a kill would have gone through. Were it not for flavor given with failed attempt I would have tried again and almost did.

If there's even a 10% chance the wolves are fools (remember Bioshock and all the Cray things leaving you speechless?) and might waste another NK that is worth going for when the info in question does nothing for villagers and only helps wolves.

Also I don't trust anyone with a NK avoidance that only makes them vulnerable to lynch. That to me means samac can't be taken to end game.

Seems the only thing she got for being PM is tie breaker, unless there's anything else about being PM that could help a wolf or 3P appear clean, in a game we don't even know if there's a full fledged seer. And I can't recall a game I've played with seer that didn't have roles or items that could help wolves evade that. In Bioshock there was a dummy, and wasn't Mkg this game ninja?

More commonly I've seen watcher or tracker. And as expected she was looked into early, and no wolf is gonna get PM and then do the faction kill the next night.

Wait what in the actual ****?
I tell you the wolves can’t kill me after they attempted to kill me and your logic is I must be yeeted?
That’s some piss poor village logic and would only benefit the wolves.

 

[SportPonies]

Yeet alissa

busy working out license paperwork but I still would enjoy going here today

 

[WildZoo]

Sorry, dubz, but I think this all falls within your wolf meta of soft deniable defenses of a wolfy packmate, just enough to get a little doubt in there, and then gently push the vote elsewhere. You're really really good at it as a wolf. And your action, not voting for mkg, doesn't fit with your words "I'd rather resolve that now." It's within your village range too, when you have self-doubt, which is what makes it work so well when you're wolfing. So I'm not offering to eat any hats over it, even the enchilada kind.

I don't appreciate you cherry-picking my posts genny. I only brought up the latter two points because mkg was pushing me for not considering other possibilities. They aren't the main idea I was floating at all.

 

[WildZoo]

Dubz is making me really uncomfortable and for some reason I've been getting flashbacks to Orchestra regarding their interactions.

Wut. I was village in Orchestra.

 

[genny]

I don't appreciate you cherry-picking my posts genny. I only brought up the latter two points because mkg was pushing me for not considering other possibilities. They aren't the main idea I was floating at all.

it's what came up when I searched mkg with you as the poster

 

[PippyPony]

~~~~~~~~

N3 write up has been very slightly updated.

Also, the table of contents remains up to date.

~~~~~~~

 

[Crayola227]

~~~~~~~~

N3 write up has been very slightly updated.

Also, the table of contents remains up to date.

~~~~~~~

Very useful mod god pip thank you, I've been relying on TOC a lot

 

[Crayola227]

Unless the entire pack miraculously has no concept of what kills mean, they already know she avoided. This is extremely basic. If they try again, they are fools.

Some of AM's logic has been really bad thks game, between that and the fact she sounds like AM doing an AM impersonation, really worries be. And AM is not above NKs to try to keep sus of herself down on thread - this is where TME's death looks sus for her.

I don't read too much into the sus of dead villagers as accurate, and the point is any one wolfy point can usually go the other way. It's always gonna be a case of where it all adds up.

 

[Crayola227]

Okay back and ready to finish a catch up!

As for the vig shot, I don't know what's been said about zenge the last few pages, but from what I read so far, that kill pick doesn't make sense from a village perspective to me. There were several other sus players that would have made sense way before zig. So I'm leaning wolf vig. If it was a village vig, I know there's been such a big push to use vig shots early, but as I've said before, I really hate it. The only useful village vig shots are when there is an outted wolf, or if there is a big front runner for vote, so that shooting can flip the front runner and and leave room for village to discuss and try another yeet that day as well. Otherwise I think they're absolute crapshoots and hit villagers 90% of the time.

Can you tell me who these way more sus players are that you would have liked to see vigged?

 

[Crayola227]

Like the Genny quote below, you can easily reason out what it could mean. But unfortunately I can see angles for every possibility

-a village vig could kill zenge because they think he’s barking up the wrong tree of a village mkg
-a village vig could kill zenge unrelated to a wolf mkg
-a village vig could kill zenge being suspicious of both and trying to resolve it for themselves/everyone else
-a wolf vig could kill zenge to throw more suspicion on a village mkg
-a wolf vig could kill zenge to protect wolf mkg
-a wolf vig could kill zenge to give mkg the cover of it wouldn’t make sense to be her
-a 3P vig could have some win condition furthered by shooting zenge

Cray is village read
Stagg is village read
Capri is neutral to wolf read

This is good reasonings.

I'm mostly responding to where you quoted Dubz.

Dubz sort of moved me village the other day based on some limited late night posting. That move felt kinda weird and based on little.

Then she goes back on me. When she wolfs she doesn't want to straight antagonize me, but she also wants to leave the door open to turn on me and get mislynched.

The latter without the former would be less suspicious to me, but both together has me worried.

 

[Dinashadow]

I'd be okay with either a sunny or Finn flip this cycle.

Sunny has seem off to me all game. The whole mkg is a wolf read, but not voting for her is bothering me the most though.

Finn based on her late vis vote and mkg throwing her in her POE yesterday and the reasoning was because of samac's theory. I wouldn't be surprised if mkg had put a packmate in there. She also put stagg in there and I'm still worried about him too.

Sporty's votes also don't look great (Vis and then Bread) and Alissa's doesn't really either and I feel like she was defending mkg a few times.

I feel strongest about sunny though

yeet sunny

 

[PippyPony]

Day 4 - The Black Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (3) - Mayo, samac, alley
Sunshine (3) - Dubz, barks, dina
Alissa (3) - AM, stagg, sporty
Dubz (2) - genny, cray

@finnickthedog @sunshinefl @alissa14 it's a three-way
11/19 players voting
voting closes at 9pm tomorrow

 

[Crayola227]

Yeet LIS

-LIS- seems to just be tunneling me and not much else, largely absent which may be his normal but I only played 1 day with him in bioshock, and then maybe trying to pocket me when he added the zenge was exaggerating part

But Zenge did sound that way. Genny and others called him out for it.

 

[Crayola227]

For now to get a vote out:

Execute MKG

Feel like this would provide a lot of info. However, high chance of moving as I'd like Samac to come back first.

Why? Are you wolf reading samac?

 

[Crayola227]

Yes. I'm both voting you and pocketing you at the same time.

Really?

This is a pretty good point. And anyone trying to pocket Sunny would know by now that voting her at the same time makes that impossible. It might work on someone else but not her.

 

[WildZoo]

it's what came up when I searched mkg with you as the poster

Then I don't appreciate SDN cherry-picking my posts.

Here are a bunch of others where I was either talking about mkg or to her, with her posts for context. Do you honestly think these interactions were manufactured? Or that I would have kept saying over and over again that her role reveal was weak (I didn't quote those but a couple were in response to you so you should remember) when I very well could have backed up samac and said it made sense? I told samac at the time that she told me what mkg had revealed to her that it shouldn't be enough to sway anyone. @samac can confirm. You think I'm such a good wolf but I couldn't have come up with a better cover for a member of my pack? Please.

Hmmm. Feels like it might be time to sheep zenge.

Unyeet lis yeet mkg

I want to see if he's right and I'm so so on my own wolf reads.

Tally at the time of my vote:

Day Two - Keep Calm and WW On - Vote Tally

AM (0) -
Alissa (1) - AM
Zenge (1) - Cray
Bobloblaw (1) - Ms P
Viscernable (4) - dina, cyndia, capri, sunshine
LIS (1) -
Mayo (0) -
Sunshine (1) - LIS
DocEspana (1) - Mayo
WZ (1) - DocE
Dina (1) - samac
Finn (1) - genny
Ms P (1) - viscernable
MKG (3) - barks, zenge, Dubz

16/24 players voting
Voting closes in < 7 hours

*Please check your votes...I feel as though my tally might be off*

These were in response to mkg, lost her posts in the multiquote:

Tbh I just agreed with zenge's assessment. You were in my neutrals previously and I vibed with what he pointed out. Didn't have anything else to add.

On the content post point, you can't just go based on post numbers alone, because some people are just low posters no matter what. This is true for cyndia and capri. It may be true for you too. So while I think it's often a good place to start, you have to look at the content itself too, and that was the part of zenge's analysis that I was supporting, not just that you had a low number of posts.

Who do you think we should be voting for instead of you? Sorry if you said this already and I missed it

To be entirely 100% fair, AM has given reasons when asked and given reads on other players outside of her initial focus list when asked.

I thought you moved alissa into your village reads?

Idk it just makes me uncomfy that while I agree that cyndia and bread would be good places for pressure, it's kinda for the same reasons that you were saying shouldn't be used to pressure you.

---------

Also @SportPonies

Zenge's post is probably the most succinct summary?


There's more which you can find by ISOing zenge and mkg but this is the gist of the argument I guess

And d3:

I am gonna switch though, in case zenge knew something after all

Unyeet dina yeet mkg

I thought they tried to shoot you?

Interesting theory. That was at night though. Know something the rest of us don't?

Just that I'm the only one that seems to remember Genny saying she got shot at. which fits pretty well with James Bond

I don't think genny mentioned any 007 flavoring on her end though? so I wouldn't assume it was the same role without any evidence to suggest that

I guess my thinking was if he did look into her and she got a notification, they may have figured it was him since he was pushing her hardest, and maybe it was better to get rid of him and sacrifice making her look worse than to risk another woof being looked at.

But that's making a lot of assumptions. We don't even know if he looked into her. I just want to know if he was right at this point, and I think that plus the possibility of mechanical reasons, plus the clarity it'll bring to the previous vote cycle makes it worth it.

Not 100% discounting the possibility that wolves killed zenge specifically to try to put more shade on mkg (however unnecessary that seems to me).

I don't know how else we move past it though. Like, days from now I feel like it would still be a question.

Look, if no ones going to step forward, (which honestly I get that) maybe you should consider that one of the people that have voted for him, or have him in their POE shot him, cause I've got nothing to do with it.

also why would it be unnecessary? I'd expect people to still want to vote for me after D2 but like, Z being dead is like the final nail in the coffin. I'm in the lead right now, and while I've been here, votes are coming in with no defense from anyone who have been village reading me. Besides Samac being silenced, there are a lot of quiet people right now, and the thread wasnt super active yesterday either. Its weirding me out. I feel like the wolves are mostly sitting back and letting us yeet ourselves.

Well it would seem more necessary if bread is wolfing, though perhaps too obvious if you go down village. Lots of possibilities here.

So you think it’s too obvious for Bread to have something to do with it but not too obvious for me to have something to do with it?

I think both are possible

Like really if it is a wolf vig they could have shot zenge so there would be a bigger push to yeet you (mkg) and then if you flip village we go right back to bread because of the timing, and then hey maybe he's village too. Like 3 for 1 village kill special. I am not saying that's impossible, I'm saying it's a lot to try to think about and I don't know if there is a way forward from here without there continuing to be suspicion on you. I'd rather resolve that now than take that mystery to endgame.

And what do you think about this being a village vig kill? Am I still needed to flip? I’d like to think I’m more useful to everyone alive than dead, and I’m still convinced bread is a wolf

I think it's not. If it is, I don't think it has much to do with your affiliation at all, since they wouldn't have known it.

Ok but there isn’t anything in the write up that reads wolfy to me, and I’m pretty sure it’s a different kill method? I think there is a pretty good chance this is a village vig

Would you expect a mod to take an action from an ambiguous source and say "OH HEY BY THE WAY A WOLF DID THIS"?

No. I wouldn’t expect that. But I think the post was pretty clear that the flip we got - z being village - was not the flip the shooter expected hence the text mentioning bad info/a leak. And that it’s JAMES BOND. Like cmon don’t ignore the info given to you.

In any case the affiliation of the vig does not play a major part in my vote for you. The fact is there are multiple people who have found reasons to find you wolfy, the one who was pushing it the hardest is now dead and flipped village (with an information role of some sort), and you were the counterwagon to a known villager. Do I strongly feel you are a wolf myself, top of my red list? No, I honestly don't. But I think there's a decent argument for it, and I think this situation needs to be resolved sooner rather than later.

Unless you are literally claiming the role, and I know you're not, I don't know why you're so convinced it had to come from a villager

I’m not, I’ve talked about both scenarios but your failure to even consider it is what I don’t get.

Does dwelling on a scenario that I don't think occured matter? I've already said that the affiliation of the vig isn't a major consideration in where I'm voting today. I'm not here to play devil's advocate against my own thought process in a scenario where at the end of the day, it doesn't change what I'm doing.

So vig affiliation aside,
Your points are that other people think I’m wolfy (from D2)
And that Z was village, and I was in a tie with someone, who people thought was wolfy, who flipped village. No one wins when 2 villagers are tied. Don’t forget Samac picked me for a reason.
These things don’t make me a wolf.
Ive been trying to resolve things all day cycle, with little response. People are so stuck on this they aren’t wolf hunting any more, talk about z and I have taken up the whole cycle. Don’t you think it’s weird?

I'm not saying being in a tie with someone makes you a wolf. I'm saying it's another reason why your flip would be informative, in addition to the other reasons why you may be a wolf (reads from people who I'm village reading and from a flipped villager who received encoded messages about enemies). And I know why samac picked you. I told her at the time it wasn't and shouldn't be enough to sway anyone's read on you.

 

[Crayola227]

My helper cat. She loves WW because cuddles.

Spoiler

 

[WildZoo]

I will say, once again, that I do not interact with a packmate like that in a way that pushes the logic being used to vote them out and then suddenly back off when all of that effort would have finally paid of. I just don't. It would mean putting her under more and more pressure, providing more and more reasons for people to vote for her, and then wait, just kidding, I actually don't want to bus her for the village cred. That would be stupid.

 

[WildZoo]

This is good reasonings.

I'm mostly responding to where you quoted Dubz.

Dubz sort of moved me village the other day based on some limited late night posting. That move felt kinda weird and based on little.

Then she goes back on me. When she wolfs she doesn't want to straight antagonize me, but she also wants to leave the door open to turn on me and get mislynched.

The latter without the former would be less suspicious to me, but both together has me worried.

I moved you to a light village read and then back to neutral, cray. It wasn't some wide swing. The former was based on our direct interactions, which I maintain felt normal, and the latter was based on you continuing to push people I was village reading (most importantly zenge, can't remember who else was in that category at the time).

Edit: oh yeah another was samac

 

[samac]

Then I don't appreciate SDN cherry-picking my posts.

Here are a bunch of others where I was either talking about mkg or to her, with her posts for context. Do you honestly think these interactions were manufactured? Or that I would have kept saying over and over again that her role reveal was weak (I didn't quote those but a couple were in response to you so you should remember) when I very well could have backed up samac and said it made sense? I told samac at the time that she told me what mkg had revealed to her that it shouldn't be enough to sway anyone. @samac can confirm. You think I'm such a good wolf but I couldn't have come up with a better cover for a member of my pack? Please.




Tally at the time of my vote:

These were in response to mkg, lost her posts in the multiquote:







---------


And d3:

I can confirm she told me it wasn’t good enough. She told me that it was an NAI reveal and doesn’t mean much.
We didn’t get to discuss it any further because this was 10 minutes before yeet close and then I got silenced

 

[Barkley13]

Did AM actually get silenced midcycle or did she just leave

 

[WildZoo]

Did AM actually get silenced midcycle or did she just leave

I don't think she's actually silenced until night time?

She is still posting less than me though, smh.