Fire Emblem: Three HoWWses Game Thread

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samac reading fluff scummy doesn't bother me since fluff is still in my "exclusives to be dealt with later" bucket anyway :laugh:

I'm contemplating PSV's posts about genny for PSV reading purposes. But I have a hard time with PSV because it hasn't been long enough since MLP for me to shake the paranoia. So I always got those sus goggles on.
 
Also the AM emojis are screwing with me man
Is this a post restriction for her to post like Lawpy
Lol
I kind of like it, makes her posts seem more friendly lol
why not let them organically progress through the game before we go about diminishing their thoughts? dont give me reason to vote out the horse
Just curious because as far as I was aware before AM said 95% read rate, I heard about her tunneling fluff for quite a few games in a row even as a manator in the noob game. Feeling out if this was a continuation of the "fluff is always wolfy" tunnel. I'm allowed to ask esp given the gaps in my previous game knowledge
 
April pls
I fully stand by she was wolf siding in the noob game and I’ve caught her as a wolf the last 2 games.

My gut is telling me not village
To clarify, it wasn’t intentional. I really thought mighty and zuri were village in the noob game. I was desperately trying to be on another wolf’s wagon to clear my name. I was giving a lot of advice that I knew wolves may benefit from so that they keep me alive, like a proper 3p who needs to stick around for endgame.
 
I kind of like it, makes her posts seem more friendly lol

Just curious because as far as I was aware before AM said 95% read rate, I heard about her tunneling fluff for quite a few games in a row even as a manator in the noob game. Feeling out if this was a continuation of the "fluff is always wolfy" tunnel. I'm allowed to ask esp given the gaps in my previous game knowledge
No I tunnel PSV as always wolfy.
Fluff kills me night 1 to not have to deal with me at this point.
JOKES ON HER THIS GAME THO I SUBBED IN DAY 2 SO I COULDNT BE N1’d
Season 6 Knowledge GIF by Friends
 
samac reading fluff scummy doesn't bother me since fluff is still in my "exclusives to be dealt with later" bucket anyway :laugh:

I'm contemplating PSV's posts about genny for PSV reading purposes. But I have a hard time with PSV because it hasn't been long enough since MLP for me to shake the paranoia. So I always got those sus goggles on.
Answering to @Wiisp too questioning this, PSV openly defended her wolf partner Lawpy in a recent game (don’t remember which game but it was in the fall). Her overconfidence in Genny here is weird.
 
1/3 of the way reeeeee

Wouldn't be a Wisp town or Wisp mafia game if I didn't at least have 2 votes in the first 24 hours
I’m gonna be honest I don’t remember why I quoted this.
Lots of experience and very common. We used to be able to soul read each other pretty quickly, though it's not as consistent now since she doesn't play as often anymore. Trying to remember the last time we actually played together and were both village...I'll have to think on it.

I'm more concerned when she's not paying enough attention to me tbh.
Marvel?
Zuri is almost being TWTBW, but too weird to be wolfy.
Oh hey I almost forgot you were playing.
@chicandtoughness Gun to Head? You feel zuri is a wolf or not?

And do you have any people you are leaning as village right now
The first game we played together you were wolf right? You killed me?
Sorry for the disorganized thought dumb but this is where I’m standing:
I got an earlier ping from Veggie, it felt like a noob wolfy thing to mention sus on Zuri within a post and then end up piling there without investigating further. I feel much better about wiisp…. No other particular pings. Maybe alley? She stood out to me as a bit hedgey. PSV does seem quieter but I don’t think that a wolfy tell of hers.
What do you think alley’s usual style is?
Also why did you wait to bring up the ping?
Can you highlight what specifically you thought was hedgy?

What would you say is a wolfy PSV tell?
Oh hey there zenge where were you for like 8 pages
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're a wolf. Even ignoring the retcon of a retcon in this post, you've burned so many of my posts to force the discussion to keep looping back to this even when multiple people tried to redirect you to pursuits that involve talking about more than just me and the tinfoil.

You haven't answered any of my questions that would poke a gaping hole in your tinfoil nor responded to the inconsistencies on how your treating my slot. To put the cherry on top, you're now actively distorting my arguments because you've ran out of lies to based your push against me on.

I've also noticed you don't care about the other three voting for you. Only me. I wonder why.
I will say I’m getting strong flashbacks of me going down a noob mechanic rabbit hole in end of the world and you and I getting at each other’s throats.

Awful strong defense for someone who's "afraid of zuri."

Yes, naming exclusive factions benefits village. Hiding it hurts village. If outting exclusives is fishing fypov, you need to be yeeted before endgame.
I like this post and the point it’s making.
OMG! I just had the forum eat like a thousand word post.

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Zenges you feel funny too
My child has appeared!! :hello:
Oh hey im your child now
 
No I tunnel PSV as always wolfy.
Fluff kills me night 1 to not have to deal with me at this point.
JOKES ON HER THIS GAME THO I SUBBED IN DAY 2 SO I COULDNT BE N1’d
Season 6 Knowledge GIF by Friends
Well you re not going anywhere by my hand this game, promise 😀
 
What do you think alley’s usual style is?
Also why did you wait to bring up the ping?
Style? I think she tends to catch up and do post-by-post analysis but she just showed up and posted some reads so it felt like posting just to post. But I feel better about alley today.
I don’t really know why I waited. It was late at night and Zuri and AM were blowing up the thread. It felt random to pop in and say “hey veg is wolfy” plus I wanted to see if others would notice (which they did the following day).
 
Hear that samac? She's taking you to endgame this time!
🤣🤣🤣
It also says “by my hand.” If she has a packmate tho……
Also don’t village read me this early pls.
I would prefer not to catch up on the thread and then immediately die tonight.
I’m sketchy, k?
 
🤣🤣🤣
It also says “by my hand.” If she has a packmate tho……
Also don’t village read me this early pls.
I would prefer not to catch up on the thread and then immediately die tonight.
I’m sketchy, k?
samac pls, if you don't want to be village-read, just be less villagey
 
:thinking:

I might have too many village/village-leaning reads
I feel that way when I keep going "sounds villagey" to person after person, but when I took all my village-feeling people off the player list, I was still left with a broad POE. So many people in this game
 
I feel that way when I keep going "sounds villagey" to person after person, but when I took all my village-feeling people off the player list, I was still left with a broad POE. So many people in this game
I should make an actual list probably
 
Hope I didn't forget anyone...I feel less concerned about the village reads now lol

genny
PSV
Nate
Poppy

Alley
Zenge
mothy

fluff
Lawpy

HW_88??
SOV
miranda
Clem

chic
April
Veggie
Santy
Wonda

samac
SAR
AM
Wisp


fluff and Lawpy are in kind of their own...thing at the moment.
 
Hope I didn't forget anyone...I feel less concerned about the village reads now lol

genny
PSV
Nate
Poppy

Alley
Zenge
mothy

fluff
Lawpy

HW_88??
SOV
miranda
Clem

chic
April
Veggie
Santy
Wonda

samac
SAR
AM
Wisp


fluff and Lawpy are in kind of their own...thing at the moment.
Wisp scares me just as an entity I’m unfamiliar with.
Why top spot?

Also can I get your thoughts on zenges? I see him on the wolfy end and I’m inclined to agree so far.
 
Hope I didn't forget anyone...I feel less concerned about the village reads now lol

genny
PSV
Nate
Poppy

Alley
Zenge
mothy

fluff
Lawpy

HW_88??
SOV
miranda
Clem

chic
April
Veggie
Santy
Wonda

samac
SAR
AM
Wisp


fluff and Lawpy are in kind of their own...thing at the moment.
I mostly vibe with this. I would have put about five players in different groupings than you, but otherwise this would be similar to a list I'd make

Tbh I forgot clem was playing

What makes you put veggie more village than chic?
 
Wisp scares me just as an entity I’m unfamiliar with.
Why top spot?

Also can I get your thoughts on zenges? I see him on the wolfy end and I’m inclined to agree so far.
We're lover masons or something :laugh: I dunno just been mostly vibing with him so I'm good having him there. I could be pocketed, so take that with however many grains of salt you want.

Zenge I'm still...contemplating. I don't know if I can articulate exactly what's made me uncomfortable. But there's something of the village Zenge flair that feels absent.
 
I mostly vibe with this. I would have put about five players in different groupings than you, but otherwise this would be similar to a list I'd make

Tbh I forgot clem was playing

What makes you put veggie more village than chic?
Eh placement withing color groupings isn't really important. For all intents and purposes Veggie and chic are about the same.
 
Fluff Pbpa

#57
votes for me calling out their name, i'd said in terms of RVS it feels a bit forced
#67
says its a joke vote, but emphasizes that they didn't like me for being eager to vote. I guess I understand this a bit, but I always find it odd how it has become universal that being to eager is wolfy, which I don't agree with, anything depends on context
p#71
I dont think contradictions are wolfy for what its worth, since wolves tend to be more thorough, but this explanation is fine
#72
but then proceeds to backpedal on the whole thing of which I dont really like
#83
proceeds to unvote me, then continue to shade me. interesting
#87
more backpedaling, feels a bit over explainy
#113
not really sure how they came to like Nate's "vibes" off one post, given it feels like it could have been pre-written, we can at least line with liking Santy, but idk if our reasons align, and April feels like a shot in the dark, meh

side note
#91 is an interesting post from April, dont know what it means yet

#116
#120
Not particularly fan of "Zuri Scares me" or "Santy sounds wise", they both come off as fake to me
at least the first has an explanation cause they are kinda cautious of them based off last game

#193 #220
NAI

#300
@justafluff I'm not particularly sure why you would announce u are trying to kill a certain faction, when I asked what my wincon was, it was basically eliminate wolves, outside my secondary wincon which I still dont particularly understand, if I assume u are town, I could see this faction containing at least one wolf, to make it so you could achieve one while still helping town. but at this point I am not considering you someone who is aligned with my win con

#313
Im not going to try to fish out this faction, since I dont think it doesn't much if I dont know who is in it, I can't see this faction being one of the 3 houses though, I suspect u might be against the church?

#319
to be fair, when my rolepm was given to me, I didn't know what either my wincons were, was this different for you

#501
though on Genny is fine here, I could see myself making this read so ill give them townie points for it

#504
fine with their sus on veggie here, and how they were slightly re-evaluating me
"I dont think that's a wolfy tell for PSV" still trying to parse how to read this
WHy did u even bring up "Quieter" here, if you think it doesnt mean anything? what would give u reason to believe that, when usually being quieter means they are likely a wolf if ur used to them being louder

#528
"fishing" always tilts me, since I find its wolves who tend to bring up this very simplistic reason, but also I agree here that we shouldn't be outting factions, I feel like its very reasonable to also not announce what faction u need to kill because 1. you are trying to kill them XD. Side note, I am not particularly fan of AM's quote in here, where they say everyone gave a reason, which clearly from what u are saying isn't truth.

#527 is midwife
but "isn't much of a reason" in regards to someone voting Zuri, isn't something I would call a "strong defense for someone who is scared of Zuri"

#664
lines up with their earlier thoughts, semi good sign
though I think noob!wolf is a weird way to describe someone, what does a noob wolf even look like, do town not empty vote? honestly I find that town empty vote more than wolves half the time

#709
I feel like this who jumping into the fray for Zuri is ok, but the "no u" arguement by attacking the fact that AM is supposedly trying to "fish" for info too

#735
I like this thought on PSV honestly


#741
this response feels fine, okish reason for why they voted and unvoted, not a fan of the complaining though, Im not sure I agree with Zenge's assessment at this time


#755
this feels like a post a wolf doesnt make, removing 3 possible executions for the day

#765
#776
#784
#816
#826

think there posts above all varying degrees of "fine", Im not really getting the vibe that Fluff is trying to find a town to push

#828
meh, Im wolfy for X, but Y isn't wolfy for x, always feels a bit wolfy, like, "caught for the wrong reasons"

#865
think this is another good post

#1041
if Fluff is a wolf breaking a tie, and there is no wolf in this tie, then this such an unnecessary vote, unless they are wolf trying to show they care

meh im bored
this slot oscilates all over the place, but with what I have, I'd probably not see myself voting it today
Conclusion: Low-End-Town-Lean towards Neutral
 
Someone tell me who died plz

Night 1: Betrayal


“The descendants of the Four Apostles... Fascinating. To think that their bloodlines carried on in secret. Right under our noses, one was even disguised as Imperial nobility... How did they manage to avoid detection for so many generations?”

th-cs-abyss.jpg


Underground, deep below the war on the surface, the people of Abyss were still carrying on. They’d all been rejected from society months or years prior, a little war didn’t change life much when you weren’t wanted in the daylight. Some had spent most of their lives dwelling within the damp hallways.

Although daily life hadn’t changed much, preserving resources was vital. Food was harder to come by, and they all felt it in the gnawing at their stomachs. Luckily, a shipment was set to arrive that evening when soldiers had returned to camp. Hapi stifled a sigh. Waiting was boring work, but she looked forward to her first decent meal in a while. Maybe they’d be so lucky to have some coffee delivered.

Finally, a knock on the door. She dragged them open and was greeted by a hooded figure. That smile… it seemed familiar… and it was hiding something.

“I guess I'm used to betrayals by now. But that doesn't mean I'm going to sit on my hands and let you hurt me and my friends.”

A wicked pain ripped through her body and she slumped to the ground, left cold and alone until morning. By the time her dear Coco found her, it was too late.

"Sometimes I have regrets about my choices, but… right now, I’m just grateful to be here, with you” she whispered.

"Even when I am a noble once more, I expected you to keep me company well into my dotage," Constance said.
"Of course, Coco. I didn't expect it so easy to get rid of me."

recruit-hapi-three-hopes-64492.jpg


Dead is @Viscernable – Hapi, Ashen Wolves who could sigh once during the game and summon monsters to end the day cycle.


The Cemetery:
@Viscernable - Hapi, Ashen Wolves, Day Cancel



It is now Day 2. Yeet Close 9 PM Central Monday, 1/16.
 
Eh placement withing color groupings isn't really important. For all intents and purposes Veggie and chic are about the same.
I was mostly curious because veggie is pretty much in neutral for me and I've been getting more villagey vibes from chic
I'd have PSV and Zenge toward neutral, genny in her own ???? category, and Alley and mothy in my village leans. And there are a few I'd move up or down just one category but are similar enough where they are

Oh yeah, what makes you put Alley so wolfy? And what's moved Lawpy toward the wolfy side of neutral?
 
Okay. Got through page 14. It’s past my bedtime.
And since I’m not to this discussion the purple flip of Visc - I’m sure that was discussed -3P right? we got no info on inclusive or exclusive - so we think Visc was coming from a village or chaos mindset when playing?
Morning. Here's you Mothy ThoughtsTM for the morning:

I think the wolves are part of "Those who slither in the Dark" based on the intro write up. I never played the game, but mention of darkness

Major Villagey vibes: AM (tone), Dubz (tone, not yeeting n00blets D1), Fluff (although I had a dream that you're 3p, so watch out lil' bunny...I may flip flop)

Major Wolfy vibes: Veg (piling on Zuri, general confrontational feels), Zenge, Nate (sorry dad...it's what my spreadsheet is telling me rn)

Maybe Wolf: Chic, Genny (Dubz feel free to change my mind), Capt Nemo


3P: Zuri, maybe Fluff cuz dreams. I think Zuri unintentionally outed their house as Flame Emperor by accident. My best guess is this is a 3P/chaos role.

Prolly Village: anyone else I didn't mention yet. And of course Mothy.

Mothy has a date this afternoon! So will be OOP/AFK until 5/6-ish.

Also totally thought the 100 posts was EVERYONE PER DAY, not PER PLAYER PER DAY. lol. I was wondering why Dubz and AM were posting so much....

Unyeet Zuri
Yeet Veg
What’s village-y about fluff? And I do know she uses a bunny avatar but was the bunny stuff brought up in the noob game.
Still think veg and zenge are wolfy?
I'm not sure I feel good about voting for genny personally. I feel like a wolf wouldn't just come in and say we shouldn't hunt wolves because 1) they know wolves exist 2) If a wolf, I feel like they would've carefully read the rules to see if wolves are already mentioned.

I don't like that veggie and moth piled on voting for zuri, but also I think this may be some bias from the last game..... not sure the logic behind moth voting for veggie since they basically did the same thing. I do agree with moth though that "Those Who Slither in the Dark" from the character list/description at the beginning about darkness overcoming all is likely the wolf faction. I mean I'm not 100% sure, but there seem to be hints.

There's been quietness from lots of players like my fellow noobs @CaptNemo @HW_88 @miranda920

So far, I think the most fluffy to me is potentialsheltervet so...
I gotta say people using fluffy to refer to wolfy confuses the **** out of my with fluff playing. Can we use fuzzy instead pls?
At what point between these posts did you go from believing factions were locations to understanding they were given in role PMs?
I like this post.
I had a very busy day yesterday and I’m traveling today! I am reading and trying to keep up while formulating my opinion.

Right now it just seems that people are yeeting randomly on no basis. There really isn’t anything to go off of yet, so I’m not sure how I feel.
Ello wolfy pop in
I am pretty convinced you’ve figured out you’re in a faction with zuri based on what he’s said about his wincon. My hope is that it’s only exclusive of max one other non-wolf faction and that it’s not mine, so wolfhunting is a much bigger priority for me than you two, but I’ve got my eye on you😛

I think I have 4 posts left so here goes one of them...


I just wanted to reiterate that we do not know whether wolves are an entirely separate faction, or a secret grouping of players who are also part of the other factions, or at least have been given enough information to pretend to be part of the other factions. That changes the way we can clear people here unfortunately, but we won't know until we get a wolf flip (and will we even know then? Hmmm).

So far I'm tracking with most of what Vissy has been saying so I feel pretty good about her unless this is one of those times where I'm in a wolfy brain state :laugh: I will say that I think the main crux of zuri's argument against AM seemed to be that he was concerned with her not knowing that other factions exist at all, which would be silly for an experienced player in a game that was stated from the outset to be factional. That is part of why his argument never made any sense to me to begin with. What she actually said was that she doesn't know what other factions exist or what their wincons are- therefore not concerned about them yet. I too would have to reread to see whether this was intentional misrepresentation on zuri's part or just him refusing to believe he was wrong about how all the factions work and let go of his assumptions.

Regardless I am going to have a tingle in the back of my head, until one of them or someone else from their faction flips, that his and fluff's approach is actually coming from the mindset of concern with getting rid of their opposing faction, rather than wolves.

Edit: also genny is still being wolfy
As I’m reading I’m sitting here thinking about Visc’s flip. The color was her faction right? Not her name?
Yea. But mods didn’t say if the rest of the ppl in my house knew. And I don’t know what it means re: aff. I just know I’m village.
You know who you’re in a house with?
1000 words may have been an inflated figure....

I was responding to this answer from Fluff

Basically I was saying I thought Alley's thought process seemed genuine? Like she found Fluff wolfy. but she also recognized that she read her as wolfy in the noob game and was wrong there...

Which sent me down this rabbit hole of "was she wrong there????" Because Fluff was scum siding as a 3p, so reading her as wolfy is totally valid in the noob game.

But then why be hesitant here? Alley read her as wolfy, she was wolf siding, so essentially she was right.

But then if Alley was right, why would there be any hesitation here? Like is Fluff right, and she's being hedgy?

But then if Alley was right there on her Fluff read, maybe she's right here and doubting herself?

It was a lot of ping ponging on that. And then the forum ate it and I got grumpy and went to bed.
I really didn’t like this post.
Dubz why are you actively post capping yourself with posts like this?
I didn’t like this either because it felt like trying to throw light sus and seeing if it would stick.
I think something standing out to me is how Santy feels quite fluffy. He's popping in to bonk his manatee and make skill issue jokes but not contributing to the thread state wolf finding.
My experience with wolf santy was he was super helpful so this is interesting.
Zenge feels a little sketch rn. Skenge
Fair
As of last night when AM asked me who I found most wolfy, I said veggie had pinged me cause she briefly mentioned zuri, and voted there without giving any more reads in a way that reminded me of a noob wolf trying to get a vote on the table.

I’ve only been on briefly today and replying to ppl directly mentioning me, so I haven’t had the time to reconsider. But I will, cause even if veg is wolfing, I don’t wanna be yeeting her on D1. If y’all hate my vote so much I’ll unyeet her and think who else may be in the pack before I vote but it will be awhile.

unyeet veggie
I really hated this. Yeet, get a little bit of pressure and they Unyeet like 4 posts later.
Okay, at long last... I am finally caught up! Just before I board my flight lol

So my thoughts... the back and forth between AM and Zuri is interesting. I feel like AM is definitely village and Zuri going in circles makes me sus, he definitely is leaning more wolf to me... The excessive theorizing makes me think they are trying to cause confusion.
I am no *expert* but this is the current vibe I'm getting.

There were some other exchanges, but none really stood out to me quite like Zuri did.

yeet Zuri
I’m concerned for perspective slip here despite the correction.
I need to work on my phrasing, excuse my noobness.
AM reads more village to me because of her diligent questioning and wolf hunting
 
Hope I didn't forget anyone...I feel less concerned about the village reads now lol

genny
PSV
Nate
Poppy

Alley
Zenge
mothy

fluff
Lawpy

HW_88??
SOV
miranda
Clem

chic
April
Veggie
Santy
Wonda

samac
SAR
AM
Wisp


fluff and Lawpy are in kind of their own...thing at the moment.
I like this. Most of my differences are finding other noobs more suspicious than you do, but I have no gauge on the experienced players so perhaps that's why. Chic is definitely not in the green for me, but again personal bias is possible... I'm also not getting the super sus vibes from Nate?

I'm also starting to feel very underprepared with my "take screenshots and just try to mentally remember everything" strat compared to these lists and excel sheets lolol
 
Oh yeah, what makes you put Alley so wolfy?
I dunno really. Something ( honestly don't remember what, I just remember it happened) made me uncomfortable yesterday and she hasn't been here enough yet to resolve that.

Why is she in your village leans?

And what's moved Lawpy toward the wolfy side of neutral?
He's not really. His contributions feel villagey but from a mechanics standpoint I'm not sure they can be seen as 100% genuine if, like fluff, getting rid of another faction is part of his wincon (which seemed to be what zuri was implying though I'm not sure he ever said it outright).
 
I like this. Most of my differences are finding other noobs more suspicious than you do, but I have no gauge on the experienced players so perhaps that's why. Chic is definitely not in the green for me, but again personal bias is possible... I'm also not getting the super sus vibes from Nate?

I'm also starting to feel very underprepared with my "take screenshots and just try to mentally remember everything" strat compared to these lists and excel sheets lolol
That list came from my brain in about...idk the 7 minutes between when I said I needed to make one and when I posted it lol I play mostly on vibes :laugh:

also, totally fine if you're more sus of the other noobs. 1) my reads are always trash and 2) I tend to be soft on the nooblets
 
I dunno really. Something ( honestly don't remember what, I just remember it happened) made me uncomfortable yesterday and she hasn't been here enough yet to resolve that.

Why is she in your village leans?
I felt like her D1 catch up felt genuine. Seemed like she was busy and posting quickly yet I liked her takes and they seemed to come up organically. And she pinged me a couple times which she always does when she's village lol
He's not really. His contributions feel villagey but from a mechanics standpoint I'm not sure they can be seen as 100% genuine if, like fluff, getting rid of another faction is part of his wincon (which seemed to be what zuri was implying though I'm not sure he ever said it outright).
What makes this apply to Lawpy and no one else?
 
Okay. Got through page 14. It’s past my bedtime.
And since I’m not to this discussion the purple flip of Visc - I’m sure that was discussed -3P right? we got no info on inclusive or exclusive - so we think Visc was coming from a village or chaos mindset when playing?
What’s village-y about fluff? And I do know she uses a bunny avatar but was the bunny stuff brought up in the noob game.
Still think veg and zenge are wolfy?

I gotta say people using fluffy to refer to wolfy confuses the **** out of my with fluff playing. Can we use fuzzy instead pls?

I like this post.

Ello wolfy pop in



As I’m reading I’m sitting here thinking about Visc’s flip. The color was her faction right? Not her name?

You know who you’re in a house with?

I really didn’t like this post.

I didn’t like this either because it felt like trying to throw light sus and seeing if it would stick.

My experience with wolf santy was he was super helpful so this is interesting.

Fair

I really hated this. Yeet, get a little bit of pressure and they Unyeet like 4 posts later.

I’m concerned for perspective slip here despite the correction.
I've been treating Vis like she was village because she felt village to me. But we won't know what the colors mean until we get more flips, and we won't know her true motives until we find out her wincon, which might not be for a long time.
 
Lawpy and fluff
No one else has revealed that kind of information unless I missed it
I'm confused now because I think what I'm asking about isn't the same as what you're answering but imma reread this convo tomorrow in case I'm just tired
they literally posted in the thread before that lol
Oh I think she was responding to someone mentioning her retroactively. She always does pbpa like that when she shows up
 
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