- Joined
- Aug 10, 2007
- Messages
- 219
- Reaction score
- 0
I also think some vets would go without yearly vet checks if they did not need vaccines or titers and I think for the majority of pets, the risk of missing their yearly vet check, heartworm test, heartworm preventative refill etc, is greater than the risks of most of the vaccines.
Some people mentioned that clients would rather get the vaccine than titer because the vaccine costs less. Let's not forget about those clients out there who want what's best for their pet, not necessarily what's cheaper. If someone feels that the risk of boostering vaccines outweighs the benefit, it's nice to be able to offer titers.
I will probably post this in the Vet thread too.
I don't know any vet that doesn't OFFER titers.
As far as titers go there is some argument about whether titers are a good indicator of an animals ability to fight off a given disease if challenged.
The clinic I work at does one year rabies followed by 3 year rabies thereafter if you come in by the date of the one year rabies. QUOTE]
This is law for licensing in many areas.
Chris- do you mean dhpp given as a 3 year and then lepto as a 1 year? As far as I know there is a 3 yr dhpp vaccination for adult dogs, but lepto is still a 1 yr. The dhlpp is a 1 year vaccine.
I don't think there is a non adjuvanted 3 year rabies for cats yet.
I have just heard/read about too many terrible reactions to vaccines as well as read about all the things over-vaccinating can cause to believe that the benefit outweighs the risk.
Even if there is only 2,3, or 4 that reports reactions per 100 that's enough to consider the risk IMO. You don't know that your dog won't end up being one of the 2, 3, 4........etc. Plus that's the reactions that are REPORTED. (IN my made up data.) Who knows how many times the reaction happened days later and was thought to be unrelated or wasn't reported. There is also a whole list of stuff that may happen as a side effect of being over vaccinated, such as allergies, hyperthyroidism, etc.
And besides, if the dog is already immune, why keep vaccinating it? It's a waste of money and considering there IS a risk.......it's not worth it to me when my dogs are my life.
If you're in ANY medicine, you need to stay open minded to new research IMO.
Also, why in your opinion is it okay to do rabies every 3 yrs and everything else as a 1 yr?
I have read time and time again that Corona virus (a part of most combos) doesn't even affect dogs over 8 weeks, whether they were vaccinated or not. Plus it's very very rare. So why do that at all? (Not implying that anyone does, but just asking in general.)
Why didnt the person report it? What was the severity of the reaction? A small lump that persists for a few days at the injection site would be an adverse reaction of statistical significance. I am from the northeast where Lyme is very common. So would a minor reaction(temporary lump) from the reaction outweigh the benefits of the vaccination? Its an individual choice at that pointEven if there is only 2,3, or 4 that reports reactions per 100 that's enough to consider the risk IMO. You don't know that your dog won't end up being one of the 2, 3, 4........etc. Plus that's the reactions that are REPORTED. (IN my made up data.) Who knows how many times the reaction happened days later and was thought to be unrelated or wasn't reported.
Also, why in your opinion is it okay to do rabies every 3 yrs and everything else as a 1 yr?
I have come across vaccinosis.......it seems to be a general term used to describe several different things, not a "technical" term I guess but I do know professionals (vets) who use it so I don't know that it's necessarily a "stupid term made up by people who don't know anything about vaccines" I don't think it's all that important to discuss whether or not it's "stupid"........but thanks for informing me on that opinion because I have heard it used a lot.
There is already research suggesting that vaccines provide immunity for 7+ years......if you notice above Dr. Jean Dodds is currently collecting funding for more research for this, and if this is the case, which might very well be, then the cost of a titer every 5 or 7 years or whatever would be well worth it.
Not saying that there *is* a link, ...
...but a lack of data does not mean that the data will not eventually show up.
Ideally, after immunization you would check their antibody levels for a primary response. Sometime later you would re-inject them with the toxoid or other antigen and then measure their secondary response, which should be more vigorous and long lasting.well then how does "immunology work" then? Because I was under the impression, from my own research, what others posted here, and from talking to vets, that titer tests showed antibody levels but not memory cells or anything wil cell-mediated immunity. So therefore, if you are referring to why some immunity levels might be for life and others not, why do you believe this? SEveral people have posted now that low titers don't necessarily mean that the immunity is not there, which is also what I've read and been told. I'm not including lepto or Bordatella intranasal because these ARE different.
Okay, my bad. This topic has gotten quite long so I hope that you will excuse me for missing that.First of all, there are vaccines taht last at least 3 yrs, that's one we've discussed several times now. The AVMA recommends vaccinations every 3 yrs (for most vaccines) and so don't all US vet schools.
Okay, that's fine, but I would question your understanding then of how research works. If they are still trying to get funding for research then nothing has certainly been proven. Where are the charts with long term studies? Where is the data showing serum concentrations over X amount of time?So to say "IF we can find that vaccines last at least 3 yrs..." is wrong, it's already been done. There is research to indicate they last 5, 7 or more years as well.......that's another thing we've already discussed, including how Dr. Dodds is trying to get funding for more research.
Hence the need for serious long term and extensive research on the subject.Just because a vaccine label states something, that does not mean it's necessarily the best thing for any or all pets.
Oh, I can't? It seems to me that I can - especially since not only would I argue that vaccinations are incredibly necessary, but it also seems as though you consider them as "just for the fun of it."And you can't compare anesthesia (sp?) to vaccines......I don't know anyone who has their dog put under just for the fun of it or once a year like clockwork. You have anesthesia done when absolutely necessary.
well then how does "immunology work" then? Because I was under the impression, from my own research, what others posted here, and from talking to vets, that titer tests showed antibody levels but not memory cells or anything wil cell-mediated immunity. So therefore, if you are referring to why some immunity levels might be for life and others not, why do you believe this? SEveral people have posted now that low titers don't necessarily mean that the immunity is not there, which is also what I've read and been told. I'm not including lepto or Bordatella intranasal because these ARE different.
Dr. Rogers I mentioned earlier is one who only gave the intial vaccinations + another at a year old and now his dog is 9 yrs old I think? and he takes him to his clinic with him where he is obviously exposed to parvo, distemper, etc., yet the dog is healthy. That *could be* by chance or it could be because he is still immune. I suppose he could be lying, but I don't know why he would do this. I know other vets/people who have done the same things with their dogs and have never ever had a problem. These are dogs that travel to shows, events, seminars, clinics.......one vet I know just recently had his 24 yr old large breed dog pass away (old age) and he vaccinates all his dogs in this manner. This was obviously a healthy dog, how many people know someone with a dog this old? He has another still alive that is 20 yrs old or so. But he also feeds a completelly raw diet, which probably supports a healthy immune system.
It would interesting to know how many adult dogs (at least 1 yr old) actually pick up something like parvo. I've never seen or heard of one........so has anyone else? It would be interesting to know statistics on something like that. I know of a GSD breeder/schutzhund competitor who now does not vaccinate at all and hasn't had any problems.....so it's not that there's no adult dogs running around who haven't been vaccinated and not lived to tell the tale. And what about wolves? Can they also get parvo and distemper? I'm sure it would be difficult to figure out, if so, how many do, but that would be something else interesting to know.
And frankly, even if it's 38 dogs per 100,000, that's still 38 dogs too many for me when this is something that probably doesn't need done as often as it is. How do I know my dogs won't be one of those 38? I'd rather just be safe and not vaccinate if they dont' need it. A titer test every 3 yrs as opposed to getting vaccinted every 3 yrs is well worth the money to me.
... and there's no data showing that feeding your dog Purina will cause him to get hit by a car, but that doesn't mean such data will not eventually show up. That sort of reasoning is bad logic and bad science.
but it is required by law (where I've lived anyway) to vaccinate annually because of the risk to the community
No I think vaccines are possibly necessary ( I don't say certainly are, because if you know what you're doing and are responsible--as the example I gave above with the guy who doens't vaccinate at all--it may be possible to go without vaccinating, or course rabies is required by law)