LECOM-B vs. NOVACOM

[pearls_and_propofol]

Hey guys, I'm in a little bit of a dilemma here and would like some other opinions. I've been accepted into LECOM-B and NOVA and I'm still waiting on 1 MD interview decision (currently wait-listed, should hear of acceptance/rejection/alternate list by May 15th).

LECOM-B:
Pros - My family lives close to the school so I wouldn't have to worry about living costs, in-state tuition is ~30K/year, Bradenton is a small town with a low cost of living, PBL is primary learning method, 100% COMLEX pass rate.

Cons - Faculty doesn't help at all with setting up rotations (most students do rotations at small community hospitals), prosected cadavers only, business casual dress code, the entire medical school is 1 building, no patient simulators.


NOVA: I just got accepted today and have ~2 weeks to decide whether or not I want to hold a seat there.
Pros - excellent facilities/campus atmosphere, patient simulators, ability to dissect AND use prosected cadavers, dress code = scrubs, Ft. Lauderdale is a pretty big city, more prestigious rotation sites, lots of focus on research, stronger reputation (or so I've heard).

Cons - Tuition is ~50K/year + cost of living in Ft. Lauderdale is much more expensive.


With the MD/DO residency merging when I graduate in 2020, I'm not sure which school will best prepare me for both the COMLEX AND the USMLE.

Please feel free to add any pros/cons I may have forgotten to take into consideration. I really think it essentially comes down to the money - is NOVA really worth the extra 40-50k/year compared to attending LECOM-B?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[zafonte86]

I just graduated from nova but I rotated with a few of the Lecom students (top of their class usually goes to Orlando for the Florida hospital site). They were all very smart and had excellent board scores (again they were all top of the class). I think other than just worrying about cost also think about your learning method. If you are a self driven person and don't require direction to learn PBL could be a great option for you. If you like more structure then Nova might be better towards your learning style.

A few things I noticed. Nova has the edge with omm and pharmacology. The OMM department at Nova is amazing and does board specific lectures for the comlex. Lecom does not give a formal pharmacology class which is a tough subject and a few students I rotated with said that was downfall. Also, Lecom has 100% board pass rate because you are not allowed to take the Comlex without passing a practice Comlex first. Anyone who doesn't pass the practice eventually has to take a board prep class I think.

In the end both schools are great and would prepare you to take the Comlex and USMLE. The cost is definitely a lot less at Lecom like you said. Best of luck on your decision and congrats on getting in. The 4 years fly by!

 

[docisthegoal]

I was in your same situation and ended up choosing Nova. Yeah cost is higher to attend and a lot of times that's a deal breaker, but I couldn't see myself not going to Nova. I however do still think LECOM is a great school, just didn't believe it was the best place for me. Definitely take your learning style into account!

 

[tiffany_wong]

Let's put finances in perspective
Whether you have 500k in loans or 100k in loans your monthly payments are the same.
#thanksObama

Don't marinate in misery just to save a couple of dollars.

Nova has a very pretty research wing now
And an on campus hospital in the makings.
Not to mention a more social environment.

 

[deleted564680]

Nova >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LECOM-B
Not even a debate.

 

[tiffany_wong]

High five

Nova >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LECOM-B
Not even a debate.

 

[deleted564680]

It sounds like OP has done some good research but don't let all the propaganda fool you. They don't let their students take the written boards until they pass an internal test to make sure they're ready. Also, COMLEX has multiple parts and they just nailed an 82% pass rate on COMLEX PE...far from 100%.
The rotations though is the biggest issue as no school should ever make their students set up their own rotations, especially not for all of 3rd and 4th year. And like OP mentioned, even the spots they do have are in < 150 bed hospitals with no GME for the most part.
It's Nova and it's not even close.

 

[AvrgPreMedKid]

As someone who already has 50k in debt, I chose LECOM-B after being accepted to both schools. Finances were the biggest factor for me, but it wasn't easy. I also did a lot of comparisons between the match lists and did not find significant differences. I haven't seen Nova's match list for this year, but LECOM-B's was good.

From a previous post of mine on the subject (2015 Match Results):
LECOM-B (Class size of 180) - 5 Anesthesiology, 66 Internal/Family Med, 15 General/Ortho Surg, 19 Emergency Med, 7 Radiology, 3 Ophthalmology
Nova (Class size of 236) - 3 Anesthesiology, 109 Internal/Family Med, 14 General/Ortho Surg, 18 Emergency Med, 8 Radiology, 1 Ophthalmology

A little more than a third (66/180, 33%) of LECOM-B grads went into IM/FM while nearly half (109/236, 46%) did from Nova.

If LECOM-B only produced IM/FM grads, I would bite the bullet and pay for Nova. I couldn't justify the extra ~$100k based off of match list comparisons, though. Despite the questionable rotations, LECOM-B manages to get students into great specialties. Also, according to multiple sources, LECOM-B will have year-long rotation sites for all of its students by the time we are M3's.

 

[anktheonc]

Ft. Lauderdale > Bradenton
Happiness at Nova >>>> Happiness at Bradenton
Cost is lower at Bradenton but many thousands before have made it work and you can as well
Stress as Bradenton >>>>>>> Stress at Nova when it comes to rotations. No structure vs. some structure
I really am big into research, and Bradenton has none.

At first I was LECOM > NOVA but now I have changed my mind. I talked to a LECOM-B alum last week and, granted he was a little off, he would not stop bashing LECOM and how much he hated his time there.

 

[crazyboi1993]

I was accepted to LECOM-B, and an interview invite from NOVA, I declined my interview invite from NOVA, it was a difficult decision, I too could not justify the extra 100-120k a year, plus higher cost of living. I dont really see why LECOM gets the hate, I think its great, and everyone I have talked to said the same thing. Truth of the matter, be they get results, and at the end of the day, thats the only thing that really matter! So Ill save my 100-120k!

 

[zafonte86]

As someone who already has 50k in debt, I chose LECOM-B after being accepted to both schools. Finances were the biggest factor for me, but it wasn't easy. I also did a lot of comparisons between the match lists and did not find significant differences. I haven't seen Nova's match list for this year, but LECOM-B's was good.

From a previous post of mine on the subject (2015 Match Results):
LECOM-B (Class size of 180) - 5 Anesthesiology, 66 Internal/Family Med, 15 General/Ortho Surg, 19 Emergency Med, 7 Radiology, 3 Ophthalmology
Nova (Class size of 236) - 3 Anesthesiology, 109 Internal/Family Med, 14 General/Ortho Surg, 18 Emergency Med, 8 Radiology, 1 Ophthalmology

A little more than a third (66/180, 33%) of LECOM-B grads went into IM/FM while nearly half (109/236, 46%) did from Nova.

If LECOM-B only produced IM/FM grads, I would bite the bullet and pay for Nova. I couldn't justify the extra ~$100k based off of match list comparisons, though. Despite the questionable rotations, LECOM-B manages to get students into great specialties. Also, according to multiple sources, LECOM-B will have year-long rotation sites for all of its students by the time we are M3's.

Just out of curiosity what is wrong with going to a school with A lot of FM/IM matches? Are you assuming they scrambled into the spots? I don't think you can assume one school is better than the other just Based off of a match list. I know there are some biased messages on this thread but I just graduated from Nova and worked with a lot of Lecom students. As I previously stated both will give you a good education. I don't mind posting our match list from this year if you would like to see. We are still missing about 100 student responses. However I don't think it's fair to assume a school isn't good based off of FM/IM residency positions they took. Further more, IM is required for a majority of fellowships, so if a majority of those IM people went into cardiology, GI, Heme Onc, etc would that change things?

Don't make a decision off of everyone's opinions. Weigh your personal pros and cons and make a decision that way. Nova and Lecom have an equal amount of flaws which you will all come to find 4th year when you compare them with students from other schools. By 4th year everyone thinks there school is the worst due to silly requirements haha

 

[Mavs88]

Interviewed at both and there's no doubt that Nova is superior in facilities, teaching, atmosphere, clinical rotations, research, etc.

However, LECOM-B's got good board scores to show and cost. I'd pick LECOM-B over Nova only if you're looking to go into primary care and don't mind less access to things like research and clinicians on campus.

 

[zafonte86]

Interviewed at both and there's no doubt that Nova is superior in facilities, teaching, atmosphere, clinical rotations, research, etc.

However, LECOM-B's got good board scores to show and cost. I'd pick LECOM-B over Nova only if you're looking to go into primary care and don't mind less access to things like research and clinicians on campus.

This is not true. I worked with the student at Lecom who got into vascular surgery. Their board scores were crazy. All the top Lecom students usually go to Florida hospital for clinical rotations. No matter what school you go to if you kill your boards,get good letters of Rec, and are not a weirdo you will get into any specialty you want.

 

[Mavs88]

This is not true. I worked with the student at Lecom who got into vascular surgery. Their board scores were crazy. All the top Lecom students usually go to Florida hospital for clinical rotations. No matter what school you go to if you kill your boards,get good letters of Rec, and are not a weirdo you will get into any specialty you want.

I meant to say those extra resources at Nova should make it easier to pursue a specialty. And as a DO student there are enough limitations already, so no you can't get into any specialty you want.

 

[AvrgPreMedKid]

Just out of curiosity what is wrong with going to a school with A lot of FM/IM matches? Are you assuming they scrambled into the spots? I don't think you can assume one school is better than the other just Based off of a match list. I know there are some biased messages on this thread but I just graduated from Nova and worked with a lot of Lecom students. As I previously stated both will give you a good education. I don't mind posting our match list from this year if you would like to see. We are still missing about 100 student responses. However I don't think it's fair to assume a school isn't good based off of FM/IM residency positions they took. Further more, IM is required for a majority of fellowships, so if a majority of those IM people went into cardiology, GI, Heme Onc, etc would that change things?

Don't make a decision off of everyone's opinions. Weigh your personal pros and cons and make a decision that way. Nova and Lecom have an equal amount of flaws which you will all come to find 4th year when you compare them with students from other schools. By 4th year everyone thinks there school is the worst due to silly requirements haha

I am not saying Nova is not good. It's a very well-respected school. If both schools were the same price, I'd pick Nova, hands down. There is nothing wrong with many IM/FM matches. Maybe that's what Nova students wanted that year.

 

[zafonte86]

I meant to say those extra resources at Nova should make it easier to pursue a specialty. And as a DO student there are enough limitations already, so no you can't get into any specialty you want.

Yes you can get into any specialty. However getting into any program is a different story. Is there a specialty DOs are excluded from? I'm not trying to start an argument with you I'm just curious now.

 

[Mavs88]

Yes you can get into any specialty. However getting into any program is a different story. Is there a specialty DOs are excluded from? I'm not trying to start an argument with you I'm just curious now.

Lol I'm not saying it is barred for a DO to get into some speciality. However, it is extremely difficult to do so into the most competitive specialities, therefore one can't just get into any speciality they desire, even if they have better scores and such compared to an MD student.

 

[zafonte86]

Lol I'm not saying it is barred for a DO to get into some speciality. However, it is extremely difficult to do so into the most competitive specialities, therefore one can't just get into any speciality they desire, even if they have better scores and such compared to an MD student.

I understand what you mean. I think the point I'm trying to get across is that where you end up in residency is less indicative of the school you go to and more indicative of you. Just because you go to Lecom doesn't mean you are going to end up in primary care if you don't want to and the same goes for Nova. Don't get me wrong I loved my 4 years at Nova and I wouldn't have changed it for anything. Best of luck to you all. Hardest part of medical school is getting in!

 

[tiffany_wong]

Let's not forget that in 2020 a merger is taking place!

There wil no longer be a distinction between md and do.
Just a difference between someone who got a mdphd/dophd and an md/do.

So let's all realize what's important here.
Whether you go to lecom b or nova.
You will be drastically happier in life than someone who went to MD school in let's say new York or new england lol.

Florida likes to give residencies to their residents primarily

So let's all just lay back and enjoy the palm trees, buy a nice 17 ft boat and learn to water ski!

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Let's put finances in perspective
Whether you have 500k in loans or 100k in loans your monthly payments are the same.
#thanksObama

Don't marinate in misery just to save a couple of dollars.

link?

 

[AvrgPreMedKid]

Let's not forget that in 2020 a merger is taking place!

There wil no longer be a distinction between md and do.
Just a difference between someone who got a mdphd/dophd and an md/do.

So let's all realize what's important here.
Whether you go to lecom b or nova.
You will be drastically happier in life than someone who went to MD school in let's say new York or new england lol.

Florida likes to give residencies to their residents primarily

So let's all just lay back and enjoy the palm trees, buy a nice 17 ft boat and learn to water ski!

There will still be a distinction between MD/DO, but there will no longer be a distinction between residency accreditation.

Many people believe the AOA/ACGME merger is actually going to hurt DO's because it is basically adding residency spots for MD applicants which were previously reserved for DO applicants only. Just go look at the MD forums - they're loving the fact that these slots are opening up.

 

[tiffany_wong]

Google "repaye" ptogram

link?

 

[oOKawaiiOo]

Google "repaye" ptogram

I still dont get the math with your original post.

How does one with 500k pay the same as someone with 100k (assuming the interest rate is the same? is it?)

 

[tiffany_wong]

U pay 10% of your income regardless of how much u take put hun.

 

[tiffany_wong]

Take out*
Sorry damn autocorrect

 

[tiffany_wong]

But bring it those MD's got nothing on us.

 

[AlteredScale]

Let's not forget that in 2020 a merger is taking place!

There wil no longer be a distinction between md and do.
Just a difference between someone who got a mdphd/dophd and an md/do.

I disagree 100%

The merger does nothing but transform AOA residencies into ACGME residencies that MD students will now be able to apply to. Those protected neurosurgery and ortho surgery spots for DOs will be no longer and DOs will now be in competition with MD students (whose CV is usually much stronger due to stronger letters and research experience at a MD school that actually has research vailable). The merger does not remove distinction or bias toward DOs in many academic specialties


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

 

[tiffany_wong]

Lol research has nothing to do with medical school. Yes if you already had massive experience in the past and wish to continue your project at your school then that is an exception; but most of the time med students don't have time to commit fully to research. By commit I mean complete a publication.
I don't even mean in the position as a first author I mean in general.

I garnered 2 publications off the bat graduating from undergraduate.
Most MD's don't have that on their repetior.

This merger is monstrous!
Why?
Because now both residencies see each other equally. No longer will DO's be looked at with a stigma when applying to prior MD residencies.

Grades, competitiveness?

Let's not even put that into question.
I want Do because of choice of location and OMM

I intended to follow through with a fellowship in pain management, and OMM is a complimentary practice in that.

And there is no MD that is taking that away from me.

As far as nova vs. Lecom B.
The choice is clear.
You want a good job?
You want a good residency?
Then network network network.
And nova is the place for that

 

[allantois]

Honestly, LECOM matches look somewhat better than Nova's.
The biggest difference is $$$.
I would still go to Nova though, but that's personal preference.

 

[zafonte86]

Lol research has nothing to do with medical school. Yes if you already had massive experience in the past and wish to continue your project at your school then that is an exception; but most of the time med students don't have time to commit fully to research. By commit I mean complete a publication.
I don't even mean in the position as a first author I mean in general.

I garnered 2 publications off the bat graduating from undergraduate.
Most MD's don't have that on their repetior.

This merger is monstrous!
Why?
Because now both residencies see each other equally. No longer will DO's be looked at with a stigma when applying to prior MD residencies.

Grades, competitiveness?

Let's not even put that into question.
I want Do because of choice of location and OMM

I intended to follow through with a fellowship in pain management, and OMM is a complimentary practice in that.

And there is no MD that is taking that away from me.

As far as nova vs. Lecom B.
The choice is clear.
You want a good job?
You want a good residency?
Then network network network.
And nova is the place for that

There will still be a lot of bias with applicants. I'll guarentee you university of Miami general surgery program will still not take a DO graduate. DO programs at the same time will still prefer DO students like Broward orthopedics. It's sad but bias will still exist. This merger is just opening up DO spots to MD applicants. However, we apply to MD residencies so it seems fair as long as they learn OMM some how.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I'm at Nova, but would have gone to LECOM-B had I been accepted because of cost (living in that area would have been free for me too). I'd have gone to a MD school over both (no such luck though). You have cheap tuition in addition to free living at Bradenton so you'll spend approximately double per year for four years (assuming you do rotations around Bradenton). For simplicity, that's $40k vs. $80k. Is the education that Nova offers $160,000 better than that at LECOM-B? Honestly, I don't believe so.

The aim of your first two yrs of med school is to do well on boards, and both schools produce there (though, at both schools it's mostly b/c of the students themselves). The aim of third and fourth is to do rotations and match residency and again it's similar for both. So is it worth $160k to live in Davie over Bradenton for you? Davie is basically back country (not Fort Lauderdale - I didn't realize the distinction between Davie and Fort Lauderdale till I started at Nova, but it's a world of difference). Up to you to decide.

For those saying don't worry about the money, $160,000 is a HUGE difference and even making $300k+ (before tax) will take quite a while to pay off in loans. And that doesn't even account for the 7% annual interest rate (if you want to account for that-see below). You are essentially paying $1857.74 per month extra every month for 10 yrs to attend Nova over LECOM-B if you account for interest. You could lease not one, but two, Maserati's for that: http://www.maseratiusa.com/maserati/us/en/index/shopping-tools/lease.html.

Loan Balance:$160,000.00
Loan Interest Rate:7.00%
Loan Term:10 years
Total Years in School:4 years
Average Debt per Year:$40,000.00
Monthly Loan Payment:$1,857.74
Number of Payments:120
Cumulative Payments:$222,928.05
Total Interest Paid:$62,928.05

Also, since someone is inevitably going to bring this up, I'm fully aware of income base repayment plans and the amount is fixed and there is a 20 yr term after which loans can be waived, but there is no guarantee this program will around when the OP is paying loans back.

And, finally, OP if you get off the MD wait list take it and run.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Other than maybe the first sentence, I'm not I agree with any of this. But, let's break it down.

1) Research has nothing to do with med school - "Nothing" is a strong word. There are plenty of research opportunities, but you don't need it and many DO students don't do any form of research. We have a longer semester than the majority of MD students because of things like OMM and even summer classes at Nova.

2) The merger is monstrous - It really isn't. It'll hurt DOs more than help. It basically gives MD students access to residencies that were once exclusively reserved for DOs. DOs could always apply to MD programs, but the opposite wasn't true before. That said, places that have a preference for MD only will likely continue to only take MDs and those that have DO preference will take DOs. The majority of sites fall somewhere in-between. There are DO schools that are really, really scared about how their grads will match though (go talk to the folks at Touro-NV given the sudden influx of MDs in that state with the opening of a new MD school).

3) No longer will DO's be looked at with a stigma - The stigma is program / person specific. There will remain programs where not a single DO will match and states where getting to work as a DO will be much, much harder.

4) Grades, competitiveness? - I'm not sure the point being made, but as long as you are passing grades don't matter much. Board scores are what's important and USMLE will remain the gold standard as far as boards go.

5) OMM - Nova has an excellent OMM department (and you'll be well prepared for boards), but don't get me started on OMM. Basically, it's mildly useful if you want to go into PM&R and you can bill for it as a family practice doctor. As for the merits, well, I'm not a believer, but to each his/her own. I've been seen in the school clinic to receive OMM for musculoskeletal pain and I was literally told, "if you don't believe in it, it won't work." I should have sat at home and prayed since I was told the same thing about prayer in Catholic school.

6) Finally, as far as the choice, it's not so clear (or it's clear in the other direction). One cost $160k more than the other. It's not like LECOM-B students all go unmatched, don't get jobs and are unable to network. The schools are comparable on all counts and I'm a Nova student saying this. I would not pay $160k extra for your degree to Nova instead of LECOM (but that's me). In the end of the day a DO is a DO.

Lol research has nothing to do with medical school. Yes if you already had massive experience in the past and wish to continue your project at your school then that is an exception; but most of the time med students don't have time to commit fully to research. By commit I mean complete a publication.
I don't even mean in the position as a first author I mean in general.

I garnered 2 publications off the bat graduating from undergraduate.
Most MD's don't have that on their repetior.

This merger is monstrous!
Why?
Because now both residencies see each other equally. No longer will DO's be looked at with a stigma when applying to prior MD residencies.

Grades, competitiveness?

Let's not even put that into question.
I want Do because of choice of location and OMM

I intended to follow through with a fellowship in pain management, and OMM is a complimentary practice in that.

And there is no MD that is taking that away from me.

As far as nova vs. Lecom B.
The choice is clear.
You want a good job?
You want a good residency?
Then network network network.
And nova is the place for that

 

[AlteredScale]

Lol research has nothing to do with medical school. Yes if you already had massive experience in the past and wish to continue your project at your school then that is an exception; but most of the time med students don't have time to commit fully to research. By commit I mean complete a publication.
I don't even mean in the position as a first author I mean in general.

I garnered 2 publications off the bat graduating from undergraduate.
Most MD's don't have that on their repetior.

I truly believe you are misinformed. Research has nothing to do with medical school? There are many medical schools that require students to conduct research while in medical school. Hence why the AAMC has looked highly upon schools that have changed their curriculum (Vandy and HMS moving to 1-1.5 year preclinical) to allow for scholarly work.

I seriously don't know where you're getting your facts since there are again, many many MD medical students who come through with authorships in publications. Far more than most DO students. Why? Because these MD schools have research as a fully integrated aspect to their institution. If you can prove to me that is not the case than please, by all means do so.

The fact that you stated that you have 2 publications without stating journal type, authorship level means literally nothing and the fact that you compare yourself to MD's is what perpetuates this cycle of bias against DO's.

Because now both residencies see each other equally. No longer will DO's be looked at with a stigma when applying to prior MD residencies.

No that is not true. The sudden merger was not because the ACGME and AOA agreed on anything. It's because the ACGME threatened to take eligibility for AOA graduates to apply for residency...since they saw a lack of quality training coming from them. The AOA was coerced into it.

The merger does not the change the perspective an IM/surgery/derm program director from BMC, BWH, UCSF, MGH will have on DO's. As a matter of fact, they will still filter them out because they already have the MD applicants they need to pick their upcoming resident. The bias will be there and you can bury your head in the sand and deny it but I will still stand here to correct you so you don't fool anyone into thinking otherwise.

I intended to follow through with a fellowship in pain management, and OMM is a complimentary practice in that.

And there is no MD that is taking that away from me.

First of all, any residency with an OMM requirement will still be protected through "osteopathic recognition" provided by the osteopathic committee elected by the ACGME, so MD's wouldn't even be eligible to apply for that. Secondly, I really doubt any MD grads are salivating for a spot in an OMM/NMM residency at Larkin. I'm sure their eyes are still set on ENT/derm/Uro/Peds/IM/Surg/Neurosurg/Rad Onc/Vasc Surg at university medical centers where their academic career can thrive.

The merge was a forced act that if not agreed upon by the AOA, would have been bad news bears for you since you wouldn't have been eligible to apply to your pain management fellowship if you chose to do an AOA residency.


@zdoc2347 I would choose Nova personally. They seem to have more resources both in the aspect of clinical training as well as research (NIHReporter shows they have a few funded project around). They seem to place a lot of their graduates into decent academic IM residencies.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I agree with you that I'd choose Nova all things being equal. But, would you pay $160,000 extra to go to Nova?

@zdoc2347 I would choose Nova personally. They seem to have more resources both in the aspect of clinical training as well as research (NIHReporter shows they have a few funded project around). They seem to place a lot of their graduates into decent academic IM residencies.

 

[zafonte86]

I agree with you that I'd choose Nova all things being equal. But, would you pay $160,000 extra to go to Nova?

If you are better at being more independent and self learning than you would do great with PBL and Lecom would be just as good as Nova. If you need more direction and do better in a classroom/lecture style than it may be worth your time to pay that extra 160K. I also didn't realize that Lecom no longer has rotations at Largo or Florida Hospital so setting up your own rotations is another challenge that you don't have at Nova. Both will get you to your end goal. It's hard to debate the cost. What's worth 160k to one person isn't worth it to another.

 

[anktheonc]

If you are better at being more independent and self learning than you would do great with PBL and Lecom would be just as good as Nova. If you need more direction and do better in a classroom/lecture style than it may be worth your time to pay that extra 160K. I also didn't realize that Lecom no longer has rotations at Largo or Florida Hospital so setting up your own rotations is another challenge that you don't have at Nova. Both will get you to your end goal. It's hard to debate the cost. What's worth 160k to one person isn't worth it to another.

IMO this is huge. Rotations essentially create your pathway to residency in your desired specialty. The first two years at all med schools are essentially the same; here's a dickton of information and I want you to learn all of it for this test. But the 3rd and 4th year is where all medical schools differ; with more differentiation in DO schools than MD schools. Those are the years that really matter in my opinion, and it's all subjective too. Everything up to that point has been sort of dependent on the individual, and now some burden gets shifted towards the school to do their part. It would make sense to walk into a structured program when it comes to your future on the line. Yeah it may not sound that bad, "Oh I can just set up my own rotations or travel a little, I don't really see the problem", but if big changes like these are happening now, imagine if one of them happens while you're in the middle of your 3rd year rotations, and you get dicked in the process. that's your future you're putting in someone else's hands

would you rather have a nerdy, boring kid who always does their job and accomplishes what is expected as your group partner
Or
would you rather have an unstable person that keeps you on your toes and guessing. sometimes does great work but may also **** up your grade
I think the extra money for NOVA is 100% worth it

 

[Novabrah]

Easily Nova. As for not having the match list... Still missing a hundo or so.

Specialty Hospital/Program Name
Anesthesiology Largo Medical Center
Anesthesiology Cleveland Clinic- South Pointe Hospital
Anesthesiology Kendall Regional Medical Center
Anesthesiology University of Miami/Jackson Memorial Health System
Anesthesiology Thomas Jefferson University Hospital
Anesthesiology Icahn School of Medicine at Mt Sinai/St Lukes-Roosevelt
Anesthesiology University of Miami/Jackson Memorial Hospital
Anesthesiology University of Tennessee
Diagnostic Radiology University of South Florida Morsani COM
Diagnostic Radiology Beaumont Farmington Hills (Formerly Botsford)
Diagnostic Radiology / Preliminary Year University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio
Diagnostic Radiology Temple University Radiology/Drexel Prelim
Diagnostic Radiology University of Cincinnati Medical Center
Diagnostic Radiology/Transitional Year University of Texas Health Science Center - San Antonio/Transitional year at John Peter Smith Hospital in Forth Worth
Diagnostic Radiology/Transitional Year Mayo Clinic
Dual EM/IM Vidant Medical Center/ECU
Emergency Medicine William Beaumont Hospital
Emergency Medicine USF-Tampa General Hospital
Emergency Medicine St. Mary Mercy Hospital
Emergency Medicine University of Illinois Peoria
Emergency Medicine Mount Sinai Medical Center
Emergency Medicine Henry Ford Wyandotte Hospital
Emergency Medicine Beaumont Farmington Hills (Formerly Botsford)
Emergency Medicine St Barnabas Hospital
Emergency Medicine Baystate
Emergency Medicine Virginia Commonwealth University COM
Emergency Medicine Mercy St. Vincent's Hospital
Emergency Medicine Eastern Virginia Medical School
Family Medicine Florida Hospital East Orlando
Family Medicine Spartanburg Regional
Family Medicine Eastern Maine Medical Center
Family Medicine Medical College of Georgia
Family Medicine Gwinnett Medical Center
Family Medicine St. Vincents
Family Medicine Community Health of South Florida Inc
Family Medicine Brookhaven Memorial Hospital
Family Medicine Christ Hospital- Carepoint Health
Family Medicine Florida Hospital East Orlando
Family Medicine Sampson Regional Medical Center
Family Medicine Stonybrook/Southampton
Family Medicine Alaska Family Medicine Residency / Providence
Family Medicine Alaska Family Medicine Residency / Providence
Family Medicine Eglin Air Force Base
General Surgery Drexel University / Hahnemann Univ. Hosp.
General Surgery Henry Ford Wyandotte Hospital
General Surgery Mclaren Macomb
General Surgery Palisades Medical Center
General Surgery Pinnacle Health
General Surgery Mercy Suburban
General Surgery Flushing Hospital Medical Center
General Surgery St. Johns Episcopal Hospital
General Surgery University of Miami/ JFK Palm Beach GME
IM Prelim Year San Antonio Military Medical Center
Internal Medicine University of New Mexico
Internal Medicine Albert Einstein Medical Center
Internal Medicine Legacy Emanuel/Good Sam
Internal Medicine Christiana Care
Internal Medicine Magnolia Regional Healthcare Center
Internal Medicine Broward Health Medical Center
Internal Medicine Palmetto General Hospital
Internal Medicine Broward Health Medical Center
Internal Medicine Broward Health Medical Center
Internal Medicine Broward Health Medical Center
Internal Medicine Mount Sinai Medical Center
Internal Medicine Mount Sinai Medical Center
Internal Medicine Mount Sinai Medical Center
Internal Medicine Broward Health Medical Center
Internal Medicine Palmetto General Hospital
Internal Medicine Palmetto General Hospital
Internal Medicine Broward Health Medical Center
Internal Medicine Genesys Regional Medical Center
Internal Medicine Carolinas Healthcare System Blue Ridge
Internal Medicine Valley Hospital
Internal Medicine Plaza Medical Center of Fort Worth
Internal Medicine Reading Health System
Internal Medicine Cleveland Clinic Florida
Internal Medicine Drexel University / Hahnemann Univ. Hosp.
Internal Medicine Community Memorial Hospital
Internal Medicine Parkview Medical Center
Internal Medicine Weatherford Regional
Internal Medicine Palmetto General Hospital
Internal Medicine University Hospital
Internal Medicine Christiana Care
Internal Medicine Cedars Sinai Medical Center
Internal Medicine Georgetown Univeristy
Internal Medicine University of Florida/Shands Hospital
Internal Medicine University of Flordia/Shands Hospital
Internal Medicine Kennestone Regional Medical Center
Internal Medicine University of Florida/Shands Hospital
Internal Medicine Mount Carmel
Internal Medicine Indiana University
Neurology Madigan Army Medical Center
Neurology Valley Hospital
Neurology Larkin Community Hospital
Obstetrics and Gynecology Rutgers University/St. Peter's University Hospital
Obstetrics and Gynecology Cooper University Hospital
Obstetrics and Gynecology Inova Fairfax Hospital
Obstetrics and Gynecology University of South Alabama
Ophthalmology Medical College of Georgia
Ophthalmology Doctors Hospital
Orthopedic Surgery Beaumont Farmington Hills (Formerly Botsford)
Orthopedic Surgery Broward Health Medical Center
Orthopedic Surgery Doctors Hospital
Orthopedic Surgery Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine
Pathology Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
Pathology University of South Florida
Pathology University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio
Pathology University of Tennessee
Pediatrics (Miami) Nicklaus Children's Hospital
Pediatrics Broward Health Medical Center
Pediatrics UF Jacksonville/Wolfson's Children's Hosp.
Pediatrics Good Samaritan Hospital and Medical Center
Pediatrics UF Jacksonville/Wolfson's Children's Hosp.
Pediatrics Broward Health Medical Center
Pediatrics Connecticut Children's Medical Center
Pediatrics UCONN CCMC
Pediatrics University of Miami /Jackson
Pediatrics Akron Children's Hospital
Physical Med Rehab William Beaumont Hospital (Categorical)
Physical Med Rehab Michigan State University
Physical Med Rehab Wayne State Rehab Institute of Michigan
Psychiatry UF Gainesville/ Shands Hospital
Psychiatry UF Gainesville/ Shands Hospital
Psychiatry Hennepin-Regions
Psychiatry UF Jacksonville/ Shands
Psychiatry California Pacific Medical Center
Psychiatry Palm Beach
TRI (derm) Broward Health Medical Center
TRI (Radiology) Naval Medical Center San Diego
TRI (Emergency Med) HackensackUMC-Palisades
Urologic Surgery Drexel University / Hahnemann Univ. Hosp.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Based on my dealings with Nova's admin, I'd rather have things in my own hands. I realized, rather quickly, that I'll care way more about my own education than Nova ever will.

I want to know why I, the Nova student that was rejected by LECOM-B, am defending LECOM-B. I guess I'd never have paid the extra money if I had a choice. $160k is a lot of money.

Here are the pros of LECOM-B (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lecom-b-vs-nsu-com.590866/).
1 - Way cheaper.
2 - Way less required class.
3 - Wherever you go, you basically teach yourself (I've had some of the worst prof in my life at Nova). Dr. Boesler is the saving grace of Nova faculty. He's the man!
4 - School setting rotations is a plus, but it's not that difficult and you always have upperclassmen to help guide you. It's not like this school is brand new, in which case I'd argue you should be going to Nova.
5 - Free living. Very few things in life are free. Take it while you can get it.
6 - Comparable/better board scores (LECOM-B has historically had higher board scores). Again, this is more on the students than the school.
7 - Comparable residency matches at both.

I also didn't realize that Lecom no longer has rotations at Largo or Florida Hospital so setting up your own rotations is another challenge that you don't have at Nova. Both will get you to your end goal. It's hard to debate the cost. What's worth 160k to one person isn't worth it to another.

 

[Rekt]

Don't pick a school based on a match list, but this race isn't even close.

Nova >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LECOM-B.

 

[AvrgPreMedKid]

LUCOM >>> any other med school

 

[allantois]

Don't pick a school based on a match list, but this race isn't even close.

Nova >>>>>>>>>>>>>> LECOM-B.

Is that really so? I don't have this year's data for LECOM, but if we compare last year's matches:

Anesthesia - LECOM's 5 vs Nova's 3
Ophthalmology - 3 vs 1
Neurosurgery -1 vs 2
Ortho - 7 vs 6
ENT - 1 vs 1

And don't forget that Nova's class has 50 more students in it (240 to 190).
I just don't think there is any evidence to the claim that Nova's matches are better. They have comparable matches.

 

[tiffany_wong]

Punch for punch lecoms students have to study much harder, sleep less, and run a lot more of their footwork to get comparable results to nova students.
At nova you get spoon fed your information and they hold your hand through your rotations.
And I don't know about yall, but I like me some hand holding during a stressful situation.

It's like saying
My friend and I both made 100,000$ income wise last year.
So our jobs are the same

However what was neglected to be mentioned was that you worked 100 hours a week while your friend worked 40.

In that specific example if you convert those 60 hours a week as opportunity cost and therefore loss in respects to (for example nut not limited too) the chance to network for a better career.
Then in the end a much different picture is quiet different.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Wait - how do LECOM students have it harder? They have very little class, teach themselves, enjoy life mostly. Below is a quote directly from the pros and cons thread from @buccsmf1.

"PBL - I also loved PBL. 3 days a week during 1st year, down to 2 days a week for second year. Typical schedule for 2nd year:

Monday - PBL 730-930am
Tuesday - nothing
Wednesday - nothing
Thursday - something like 8-12am for OMM and Clin Ed
Friday - PBL 730-930 am

You have a ton of free time, I was able to get a good jump start on step 1 studying during the second half of year two and still kept up with my classes without problem."

Compare this to Nova. We have a ton of required class/labs and not to mention if you actually go to class it's basically 8 a.m. - 4 p.m. each and every day. And that doesn't even account for weekly exams first year at Nova!

The only aspect where LECOM-B students do more footwork is setting up their rotations, but they have plenty of help from upper classman and I haven't heard many complaints about it.

I'm stuck on the fact that these schools aren't actually all that different. They are both in FL, they are both DO schools, they both have comparable matches and comparable board scores. One is $160,000 more than the other. I can't get past that. I'd have gone to LECOM-B in a heartbeat for that reason (I wasn't interviewed/accepted so making do at Nova).

Punch for punch lecoms students have to study much harder, sleep less, and run a lot more of their footwork to get comparable results to nova students.
At nova you get spoon fed your information and they hold your hand through your rotations.
And I don't know about yall, but I like me some hand holding during a stressful situation.

It's like saying
My friend and I both made 100,000$ income wise last year.
So our jobs are the same

However what was neglected to be mentioned was that you worked 100 hours a week while your friend worked 40.

In that specific example if you convert those 60 hours a week as opportunity cost and therefore loss in respects to (for example nut not limited too) the chance to network for a better career.
Then in the end a much different picture is quiet different.

 

[tiffany_wong]

Nova classes (besides lab and omm) don't have mandatory attendance.

So u actually have class less then lecom students if u like it that way.

However I meant u have less time because u have to study more on your own since nothing is spoon fed to you like in nova.

 

[mspeedwagon]

How about when the attendance sheet magically showed up in anatomy lecture and points were deducted for people that weren't there? And, what about FACR? What about humanism? What about IGC? What about physical diagnosis (arguably a lab, so may give you that one)? Not to mention the ton of other things that are MANDATORY (like mandatory society meetings, mandatory visit to an art museum etc.). As far as I'm aware we are required to be at ALL those, otherwise I'd have shown up to none of the above. I think a lot of things at Nova are a waste of time. After two semesters of mandatory humanism, I've learned nothing. Also, for the record, I learned absolutely no physiology from Dr. T (and we had him both semester). I have friends at LECOM-B and they have way, way less mandatory things in a week than us at Nova.

I'd rather have time to focus on the one thing that matters... boards. Nova has a lot of needless exams and classes imho! And, don't even get my started on my IGC experience! I learned more real medicine from watching Scrubs!

Nova classes (besides lab and omm) don't have mandatory attendance.

So u actually have class less then lecom students if u like it that way.

However I meant u have less time because u have to study more on your own since nothing is spoon fed to you like in nova.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Btw, OP, if you do come to Nova, we literally had a lecture where they spent two hours on learning styles (which was given by the dean) that said that attending lectures was one of the worst ways to learn new information. It was a really good use of 2 hrs of my time seeing that's all I remember about it now!

 

[Mad Jack]

NOVANOVANOVANOVA for the LOVE OF GOD NOVA.

LECOM-B has some issues with both clinical sites and curriculum structure at the moment, from rumblings about the forum.

 

[zafonte86]

Btw, OP, if you do come to Nova, we literally had a lecture where they spent two hours on learning styles (which was given by the dean) that said that attending lectures was one of the worst ways to learn new information. It was a really good use of 2 hrs of my time seeing that's all I remember about it now!

If you dislike Nova so much you could always transfer.... Every school has their problems. No need to bash the school giving you your doctorate.

 

[mspeedwagon]

I never said I disliked Nova. The question that was asked was the Nova education $160k better than that at LECOM-B. My point is that absolutely, positively, no! If you see above, I said all things being equal, I said that I'd go to Nova over LECOM-B, but in the case of the OP all things aren't equal.

And for the record, where did I bash the school? Every statement is factually correct.
- I learned no physiology from Dr. T.
- We had a two hour mandatory lecture on learning styles given by the dean.
- FACR, humanism and IGC are all mandatory (not only OMM and labs).

Just b/c I go to a school, doesn't mean I'm going to blindly defend things I think are bad about it. Are you advocating lying? Didn't you learn anything in humanism?

All-in-all the education at Nova is fine, but if I had been given a 160k cheaper option for similar education, I'd have gone there.

If you dislike Nova so much you could always transfer.... Every school has their problems. No need to bash the school giving you your doctorate.

 

[crazyboi1993]

I never said I disliked Nova. The question that was asked was the Nova education $160k better than that at LECOM-B. My point is that absolutely, positively, no! If you see above, I said all things being equal, I said that I'd go to Nova over LECOM-B, but in the case of the OP all things aren't equal.

And for the record, where did I bash the school? Every statement is factually correct.
- I learned no physiology from Dr. T.
- We had a two hour mandatory lecture on learning styles given by the dean.
- FACR, humanism and IGC are all mandatory (not only OMM and labs).

Just b/c I go to a school, doesn't mean I'm going to blindly defend things I think are bad about it. Are you advocating lying?

All-in-all the education at Nova is fine, but if I had been given a 160k cheaper option for similar education, I'd have gone there.

This was my exactly argument for choosing LECOM over NOVA. I simply couldnt justify the extra tuition and living costs. At the end of the day a DO is a DO..