Official 2009/2010 rank list help thread

[Minion677]

The three programs I am most interested in but having trouble deciding on final ranking are:

1) mount sinai
2) NYU
3) BIDMC

I feel like all would be fine for me; may do critical care, but I'm not sure.

Mt Sinai > NYU > BID

I'd keep them in the order your have. NYC is so much better than Boston and I think BIDMC reputation is overblown on this board anyways. Its definitely top tier, but people put it on par with the other Harvard programs which it is not in terms of name recognition within and outside of medical circles as well as fellowship match list.

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[EaglesPA]

In my academic circles at the national medicine meetings..

Columbia edges out Penn by a little.

Duke is good too, but it's hard to compare because it's in a different region.

That's splitting hairs here. As far as I know, in terms of reputation,

Penn = Duke = Columbia

 

[levarburton]

- Do you want to be in New York or Boston for residency?
- Are you thinking about fellowship? Which one? Where do you think you would want to be for fellowship?
- What kind of "feel" did you subjectively get when you innterviewed at these programs?

If you answer these questions and you are still undecided, then we can help you out. GL

1) I am somewhat leaning more toward NYC as a place to live, but its close
2) Fellowship: not sure what I want to do yet, have a few different thoughts, CCM, cardio, heme/onc
3) Feel: BIDMC had a good feel I think because it is just a very nice hospital so that kind of swayed me, then probably mt sinai was the next best, then nyu probably because bellevue is kind of dumpy.

 

[EaglesPA]

1) I am somewhat leaning more toward NYC as a place to live, but its close
2) Fellowship: not sure what I want to do yet, have a few different thoughts, CCM, cardio, heme/onc
3) Feel: BIDMC had a good feel I think because it is just a very nice hospital so that kind of swayed me, then probably mt sinai was the next best, then nyu probably because bellevue is kind of dumpy.

Based on above information, I would rank as follows.
1. BIDMC
2. Mt Sinai
3. NYU

Now if you start to feel that you will be missing out on NYC, then switching #1 and #2 above will work out fine as well.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I know I've posted here before. but I can't decide between two places and I wanted to see what you guys think. I'm struggling between Vanderbilt and Columbia. There are so many pros and cons to both programs.

Vandy: I'm from Texas and moving to Nashville will be less stressful for me. I can have a car, people are friendly, life style is closer to what I'm used to. I want to go into Rheum and not only is Dr. Sergent a fabulous advocate for the residents, but he's also a Rheumatologist who will be invaluable in helping me get a fellowship. Also, they seem very supportive to residents and everyone seems very happy there. The ancillary services and EMR are wonderful which will make residency overall less stressful. The weather will also be much warmer and comfortable for me.

The schedule is brutal: 9 months call some months q3. 2 weeks vacation plus 5 days for holidays. Extended time doing overnight call all three years, more ICU months than most other programs etc. Nashville isn't the most happening town, so I may miss some of the amenities of Houston. I'm not sure how much ranking matters (SDN leads me to believe it matters a lot), but Vandy isn't ranked as highly as is Columbia. I think Columbia's name is a bit more impressive to most.

Columbia: The training here seems amazing. The breadth of pathology I'd see in NYC could be unparalleled and the autonomy would be amazing. I have no doubt that I'd become an outstanding clinician after residency there. The fellowship match list from Columbia is consistently impressive. The schedule is reasonable with a front loaded program that tapers off nicely through the years. There is also more emphasis on ambulatory care which will be more useful to me as a future Rheumatologist. NYC is exciting (and scary) and features the best of everything in the world.

Cons: I don't like being cold, I like driving, and I like cheap rent. I can say goodbye to all of these things in NYC. I also doubt I can keep my doggy if I go there (my boyfriend's parents would keep her). The transition from Houston to NYC would be dramatic requiring big adjustments on my part. Now that you can't deffer loans in residency, I'm afraid I wont be able to make loan payments if I live in such an expensive city. I've also heard that the ancillary services at Columbia are very poor which leads to stress for the residents. I've also heard from outsiders that residents tend to be less cohesive and sometimes unhappy (however, this sentiment was not repeated by the current residents).

I think Columbia would offer more opportunities, and more stress. Vandy would be overall less stressful but maybe would not offer quite the quality of clinical training. Febuary 24th is quickly approaching and I still haven't decided. Any advice?

 

[GniraW]

I know I've posted here before. but I can't decide between two places and I wanted to see what you guys think. I'm struggling between Vanderbilt and Columbia. There are so many pros and cons to both programs.

Vandy: I'm from Texas and moving to Nashville will be less stressful for me. I can have a car, people are friendly, life style is closer to what I'm used to. I want to go into Rheum and not only is Dr. Sergent a fabulous advocate for the residents, but he's also a Rheumatologist who will be invaluable in helping me get a fellowship. Also, they seem very supportive to residents and everyone seems very happy there. The ancillary services and EMR are wonderful which will make residency overall less stressful. The weather will also be much warmer and comfortable for me.

The schedule is brutal: 9 months call some months q3. 2 weeks vacation plus 5 days for holidays. Extended time doing overnight call all three years, more ICU months than most other programs etc. Nashville isn't the most happening town, so I may miss some of the amenities of Houston. I'm not sure how much ranking matters (SDN leads me to believe it matters a lot), but Vandy isn't ranked as highly as is Columbia. I think Columbia's name is a bit more impressive to most.

Columbia: The training here seems amazing. The breadth of pathology I'd see in NYC could be unparalleled and the autonomy would be amazing. I have no doubt that I'd become an outstanding clinician after residency there. The fellowship match list from Columbia is consistently impressive. The schedule is reasonable with a front loaded program that tapers off nicely through the years. There is also more emphasis on ambulatory care which will be more useful to me as a future Rheumatologist. NYC is exciting (and scary) and features the best of everything in the world.

Cons: I don't like being cold, I like driving, and I like cheap rent. I can say goodbye to all of these things in NYC. I also doubt I can keep my doggy if I go there (my boyfriend's parents would keep her). The transition from Houston to NYC would be dramatic requiring big adjustments on my part. Now that you can't deffer loans in residency, I'm afraid I wont be able to make loan payments if I live in such an expensive city. I've also heard that the ancillary services at Columbia are very poor which leads to stress for the residents. I've also heard from outsiders that residents tend to be less cohesive and sometimes unhappy (however, this sentiment was not repeated by the current residents).

I think Columbia would offer more opportunities, and more stress. Vandy would be overall less stressful but maybe would not offer quite the quality of clinical training. Febuary 24th is quickly approaching and I still haven't decided. Any advice?

I think Columbia > Vanderbilt for overall potential for excellent fellowship placement. HSS is in NYC and if you are interested in rheum, it is definitely one of the places to be. Also, NYC > Nashville for a lot of reasons (social and recreatrional diversity to name a few).

I remember reading about you being gung-ho about Duke, what happened?

 

[EaglesPA]

I know I've posted here before. but I can't decide between two places and I wanted to see what you guys think. I'm struggling between Vanderbilt and Columbia. There are so many pros and cons to both programs.

Vandy: I'm from Texas and moving to Nashville will be less stressful for me. I can have a car, people are friendly, life style is closer to what I'm used to. I want to go into Rheum and not only is Dr. Sergent a fabulous advocate for the residents, but he's also a Rheumatologist who will be invaluable in helping me get a fellowship. Also, they seem very supportive to residents and everyone seems very happy there. The ancillary services and EMR are wonderful which will make residency overall less stressful. The weather will also be much warmer and comfortable for me.

The schedule is brutal: 9 months call some months q3. 2 weeks vacation plus 5 days for holidays. Extended time doing overnight call all three years, more ICU months than most other programs etc. Nashville isn't the most happening town, so I may miss some of the amenities of Houston. I'm not sure how much ranking matters (SDN leads me to believe it matters a lot), but Vandy isn't ranked as highly as is Columbia. I think Columbia's name is a bit more impressive to most.

Columbia: The training here seems amazing. The breadth of pathology I'd see in NYC could be unparalleled and the autonomy would be amazing. I have no doubt that I'd become an outstanding clinician after residency there. The fellowship match list from Columbia is consistently impressive. The schedule is reasonable with a front loaded program that tapers off nicely through the years. There is also more emphasis on ambulatory care which will be more useful to me as a future Rheumatologist. NYC is exciting (and scary) and features the best of everything in the world.

Cons: I don't like being cold, I like driving, and I like cheap rent. I can say goodbye to all of these things in NYC. I also doubt I can keep my doggy if I go there (my boyfriend's parents would keep her). The transition from Houston to NYC would be dramatic requiring big adjustments on my part. Now that you can't deffer loans in residency, I'm afraid I wont be able to make loan payments if I live in such an expensive city. I've also heard that the ancillary services at Columbia are very poor which leads to stress for the residents. I've also heard from outsiders that residents tend to be less cohesive and sometimes unhappy (however, this sentiment was not repeated by the current residents).

I think Columbia would offer more opportunities, and more stress. Vandy would be overall less stressful but maybe would not offer quite the quality of clinical training. Febuary 24th is quickly approaching and I still haven't decided. Any advice?

My advice, based on above, is go with Vanderbilt.
Internship is stressful wherever you go - it would be nice to be at a place closer to your family and boyfriend, be able to drive and have your dog like you are used to etc. Knowing you want to do Rheum, you will have no problem getting a good Rheum fellowship coming out of Vanderbilt.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I think Columbia > Vanderbilt for overall potential for excellent fellowship placement. HSS is in NYC and if you are interested in rheum, it is definitely one of the places to be. Also, NYC > Nashville for a lot of reasons (social and recreatrional diversity to name a few).

I remember reading about you being gung-ho about Duke, what happened?

Duke seems like a great idea on paper, but I just don't feel it. I tried to schedule a second look and update info and they were a bit standoffish. I'm not sure that I'll fit well there. Since I don't want to do anything crazy competitive, it doesn't seem imperative that I go to the highest ranked place I can.

 

[Hassler]

Now that you can't deffer loans in residency, I'm afraid I wont be able to make loan payments if I live in such an expensive city.

I haven't been following loans because I've been so busy. Is this true? How do ppl who took out maximum loans afford to live in cities?

 

[ResidentMD]

Duke seems like a great idea on paper, but I just don't feel it. I tried to schedule a second look and update info and they were a bit standoffish. I'm not sure that I'll fit well there. Since I don't want to do anything crazy competitive, it doesn't seem imperative that I go to the highest ranked place I can.

I think you just answered your question yourself.

My advice, based on above, is go with Vanderbilt.
Internship is stressful wherever you go - it would be nice to be at a place closer to your family and boyfriend, be able to drive and have your dog like you are used to etc. Knowing you want to do Rheum, you will have no problem getting a good Rheum fellowship coming out of Vanderbilt.

I too feel (in theory - because I am a current applicant), if you use Dr Sergent's expertise to make yourself into a competitive Rheum applicant, you should be able to go pretty much to a stellar program in any city of your choice, if not any program.

People tell me Nashville isnt as bad/boring as its made out to be. Its definitely not NYC, but then, it seems you could do away with the frills of NYC, from your description of what you want out of life.

 

[houstoncfh]

I think it's also important to consider where your boyfriend is and what he's thinking. You can fly direct to just about anywhere from NYC. (Then again, if he's in TX, hellooooo Southwest to BNA!) I liked both programs a lot. My SO isn't crazy about Nashville, so it's towards the bottom of my list solely for that reason.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I think you just answered your question yourself.



I too feel (in theory - because I am a current applicant), if you use Dr Sergent's expertise to make yourself into a competitive Rheum applicant, you should be able to go pretty much to a stellar program in any city of your choice, if not any program.

People tell me Nashville isnt as bad/boring as its made out to be. Its definitely not NYC, but then, it seems you could do away with the frills of NYC, from your description of what you want out of life.

Yeah, I'm leaning that way. I'm also concerned that the patient population in Nashville is ethnically homogeneous so I won't see as much pathology. Anyone know about this?

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I think it's also important to consider where your boyfriend is and what he's thinking. You can fly direct to just about anywhere from NYC. (Then again, if he's in TX, hellooooo Southwest to BNA!) I liked both programs a lot. My SO isn't crazy about Nashville, so it's towards the bottom of my list solely for that reason.

Southwest flies direct from Nashville to Houston. The flight is about 2 hours (NICE!). However, Vandy has no golden weekends and less time off so it may make being long distance harder. There is, however, an outside chance that he can do is pedi prelim years at Vandy then go back to Baylor which would significantly cut the time we'd be long distance. That would really sway the decision.

 

[Keg]

Yeah, I'm leaning that way. I'm also concerned that the patient population in Nashville is ethnically homogeneous so I won't see as much pathology. Anyone know about this?

I wouldn't say that Nashville is ethnically homogeneous. I lived there for the first 22 years of my life (and am ranking Vandy pretty high), and I never have heard that there was a dearth of experiences. Plenty of urban medicine with chronic medical conditions. Combine that with more affluent areas closer to the hospital, and you really can see the breadth of medicine.

 

[Frugal Traveler]

I don't think you can go wrong with Columbia, Duke, or Vanderbilt... all are great.

Best wishes making your final decision

 

[berkshire]

Okay guys, here is my list. I'm having a lot of trouble with the top of my list. My goal is to match into a top-tier GI program after residency.

University of Washington
OHSU
UCLA
University of Michigan
University of Wisconsin
BIDMC

I felt UW had the strongest training out of those programs. However I was told point blank during my interview day by both faculty and residents that GI isn't a strength of the program. How much should this affect my decision?

I thought UCLA had a somewhat cush program that might not be as rigorous as others but I believe their GI program is very strong and they take many internal applicants. OHSU seemed somewhat cush too and I'm not sure about their department.

Michigan is obviously a big consideration given their excellent fellowship placement but I'm not sure I want to live in Ann Arbor.

BIDMC doesn't have as good of a GI fellowship match as UCLA or Michigan but a gastroenterologist at my home program told me they have a really great department (which may not necessarily correlate to a great GI training...).

Help?

 

[EaglesPA]

Okay guys, here is my list. I'm having a lot of trouble with the top of my list. My goal is to match into a top-tier GI program after residency.

University of Washington
OHSU
UCLA
University of Michigan
University of Wisconsin
BIDMC

I felt UW had the strongest training out of those programs. However I was told point blank during my interview day by both faculty and residents that GI isn't a strength of the program. How much should this affect my decision?

I thought UCLA had a somewhat cush program that might not be as rigorous as others but I believe their GI program is very strong and they take many internal applicants. OHSU seemed somewhat cush too and I'm not sure about their department.

Michigan is obviously a big consideration given their excellent fellowship placement but I'm not sure I want to live in Ann Arbor.

BIDMC doesn't have as good of a GI fellowship match as UCLA or Michigan but a gastroenterologist at my home program told me they have a really great department (which may not necessarily correlate to a great GI training...).

Help?

Given above info,
1. UCLA
2. BIDMC
3. Michigan
4. U of Wash
5. OHSU
6. Wisconsin

 

[Scaredshizzles]

Okay guys, here is my list. I'm having a lot of trouble with the top of my list. My goal is to match into a top-tier GI program after residency.

University of Washington
OHSU
UCLA
University of Michigan
University of Wisconsin
BIDMC

I felt UW had the strongest training out of those programs. However I was told point blank during my interview day by both faculty and residents that GI isn't a strength of the program. How much should this affect my decision?

I thought UCLA had a somewhat cush program that might not be as rigorous as others but I believe their GI program is very strong and they take many internal applicants. OHSU seemed somewhat cush too and I'm not sure about their department.

Michigan is obviously a big consideration given their excellent fellowship placement but I'm not sure I want to live in Ann Arbor.

BIDMC doesn't have as good of a GI fellowship match as UCLA or Michigan but a gastroenterologist at my home program told me they have a really great department (which may not necessarily correlate to a great GI training...).

Help?

1. UCLA
2. U of Michigan=U of Washington
4. BIDMC (they did match 7 to GI last year)=OHSU
6. UWisconsin (Underrated program though.)

 

[ResidentMD]

1. UCLA
2. U of Michigan=U of Washington
4. BIDMC=OHSU
6. UWisconsin (Underrated program though.)

In this particular case, I would rank BIDMC at #3, over UW.

Your top 3 would (and should) probably be decided by where you want to live - Los Angeles would be VERY different from Ann Arbor which is VERY different from Boston. I wouldnt worry about the fellowship matches from BIDMC, it still carrying the Harvard reputation with it; and having the other Boston programs around it (and that is why I would suggest ranking it over UW - again, only in this particular case). But if you want to definitely have the foot-in-the-door with a great GI program, UCLA and Ann Arbor should be your top 2.

 

[kim83]

Is Lenox Hill NYC in financial trouble? There have been couple of posts implying they are near bankrupt and may be bought by lij but was not sure if this is true. I'm just concerned about this since the recent bankruptcy of st vincents NYC. Does anyone have any info on lenox hill financial status?? Feel like I need to know to rank them on my list.

 

[Wonelove]

I think my post got lost in the "Cornell=Britney" squabble. Any insight will be much appreciated.

Interested in ID and quite confused bc looking for somewhere solely on Reputation and ability to get me into an awesome global health/ID fellowship. Thoughts? Location not an issue.
My first attempt is below. Thanks!

Yale primary care
Cornell
Mayo Rochester
Hopkins bayview
Cedars Sinai
UPMC Pittsburg
Denver Colarado
Cleveland Clinic
USC
Loma Linda
St Lukes Roosevelt NY
UMass
Baylor (Dallas)
St Mary's (Long Beach, CA)
Albert Einstein Jacobi (Bronx)

 

[wire]

.

 

[ResidentMD]

1) Cornell
2) Mayo
3) Yale
4) Colorado
5) Pitt
6) Hopkins Bayview = Einstein
..
The rest

Agreed for the most part - because you are asking for reputation.

For pure pathology from the ID POV, I would think you may see more at Einstein and USC as compared to Mayo, Yale, Colorado and Pitt. But from your career goals POV, the above rank list looks good.

 

[runner83]

So here is my current rank list:

1) BIDMC
2) Tufts
3) Yale
4) Cornell
5) Mount Sinai
6) NYU
7) Brown
8) BU

I really want to be in Boston next year because my fiance is there for at least the next few years and is not flexible to move. I am interested in a fellowship in nephrology eventually with a career in academics. I wanted advice on whether I should switch Tufts and Yale on my list. Here are the pros and cons as I see it:

Tufts:
pros - in Boston, subspecialty services (including a renal service), good nephrology match and nephrology research (especially clinical), no private attendings, small program, good housestaff camaraderie
cons - less strong match in other departments, less patient diversity, less academic, subspecialty services (yes this is a pro and a con)

Yale:
pros - great PD, tons of research money, good nephrology match, very academic, good housestaff camaraderie, opportunity for moonlighting, cheap cost of living
cons - in New Haven!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Naztyg]

I'm interested in GI

UTSW
UT Houston
OSU
Rush
Loyola
Cincinnati
Miami
USC
VCU
Maryland
Massachusetts

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm having a particularly difficult time deciding between Rush and Loyola.

 

[Wonelove]

Yeah, thanks guys. I felt the same way about USC but the match list is not so impressive there though the pathology is phenom. Albert Einstein fell down on my list b/c its in the bronx.

Agreed for the most part - because you are asking for reputation.

For pure pathology from the ID POV, I would think you may see more at Einstein and USC as compared to Mayo, Yale, Colorado and Pitt. But from your career goals POV, the above rank list looks good.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

So here is my current rank list:

1) BIDMC
2) Tufts
3) Yale
4) Cornell
5) Mount Sinai
6) NYU
7) Brown
8) BU

I really want to be in Boston next year because my fiance is there for at least the next few years and is not flexible to move. I am interested in a fellowship in nephrology eventually with a career in academics. I wanted advice on whether I should switch Tufts and Yale on my list. Here are the pros and cons as I see it:

Tufts:
pros - in Boston, subspecialty services (including a renal service), good nephrology match and nephrology research (especially clinical), no private attendings, small program, good housestaff camaraderie
cons - less strong match in other departments, less patient diversity, less academic, subspecialty services (yes this is a pro and a con)

Yale:
pros - great PD, tons of research money, good nephrology match, very academic, good housestaff camaraderie, opportunity for moonlighting, cheap cost of living
cons - in New Haven!

Thanks in advance!

Why BU so low? They have as strong am atch list as probably any porgram except Cornell on your list, and it is in Boston.

 

[Mental Gymnast]

1) Cornell
2) Mayo
3) Yale
4) Colorado
5) Pitt
6) Hopkins Bayview = Einstein
..
The rest

u kiddin me, bruh? Hopkins Bayview number 6?! I would at least put bayview higher than pitt and colorado. You seen their rank list?

 

[runner83]

Why BU so low? They have as strong am atch list as probably any porgram except Cornell on your list, and it is in Boston.

I just did not get a good vibe at BU when I interviewed...the program seemed very malignant and the residents did not seem to be happy. They are strong clinically, but do not seem to have as much research as some of the other places on my list.

 

[ResidentMD]

u kiddin me, bruh? Hopkins Bayview number 6?! I would at least put bayview higher than pitt and colorado. You seen their rank list?

I think its more to do with what the OP wants...which is an organized track for international health and ID. Pitt allows an international rotation - I forget if they have a track for that or not. I dont know if thats the same with Bayview. Ditto with Colorado - I know National Jewish is known for its mycobacterial pathology, besides other things.

 

[toods]

Hey everyone, I had posted earlier in this thread and I'm thankful for the responses I got.

Still having a really hard time deciding between JHU and Duke. Liked both places pretty much equally, though not a huge fan of Baltimore.

Definitely want to go into GI. Any thoughts on which program I should rank #1?

 

[PeePoe]

Like several others on here I'm interested in GI and am having a hard time between Wake and VCU. Winston-Salem is smaller and slower paced which is fine and Richmond is Richmond. Either program stronger as far as fellowship placement? I've seen the numbers and they appear pretty similiar. Thoughts?

 

[tfom08]

Like several others on here I'm interested in GI and am having a hard time between Wake and VCU. Winston-Salem is smaller and slower paced which is fine and Richmond is Richmond. Either program stronger as far as fellowship placement? I've seen the numbers and they appear pretty similiar. Thoughts?

Being from the south, I think Wake has a little more reputation around the area. But in the grand scheme of things, these programs are pretty close. Neither are going to be involved in SDN arguments of which program is top 10 or 20, but both programs are solid university IM programs. Whichever program you think you will perform best is probably the right choice, IMO.

 

[motoo]

so I had posted earlier about considering cook county hospital vs. the traditional academic programs, but after talking with people about training at a program with FMGs (I'll be an AMG), I decided against it. so now i'm even more conflicted.

Northwestern: shortest drive for me (20-25 min), I like everything about this program (autonomy, facilities, didactics, etc) except I feel I might not fit in....most of the people seem to come from prestigious pedigrees/well-off backgrounds, do the traditional bars/clubbing scene, seem not to joke as much or more so share my style of humor, whereas i'm more from a blue collar/lower middle class background with a huge orientation towards my big extended family, tend to be laid back and joke around (though i'm just as driven as anyone), and also i'm not white whereas most of the patients/staff there are. I'm probably coming off as offensive but it's hard to explain the feeling. It's just I do notice a palpable difference b/w the environment I come from and feel comfortable in and the general culture of the people at NW

U of Chicago: longest drive for me (45-50 min), paper charts BIG and old hospital, toughest call schedule, interesting pathology. autonomy and didactics seemed to be really good, I could relate to the people here, but i'm not so gung-ho about research (maybe haven't found the right project though)

University of Illinois - Chicago: tolerable commute (30 min), very diverse residents with whom i'd fit right in (best out of all the programs), not as good reputation as the others, but excellent PD and didactics, dumpy facilities unfortunately

how would you rank these three given what I've said above? I won't be specializing. i'm thinking just go with NW (mainly due to commute and nice facilities) and hope for the best?

 

[houstoncfh]

Hey everyone, I had posted earlier in this thread and I'm thankful for the responses I got.

Still having a really hard time deciding between JHU and Duke. Liked both places pretty much equally, though not a huge fan of Baltimore.

Definitely want to go into GI. Any thoughts on which program I should rank #1?

Honestly, on this board, I doubt anyone would recommend you pass up Hopkins for Duke (especially if interested in GI -- MAYBE it'd be a toss up if you're thinking cards).

That said, you can do whatever you want. I personally like Durham a lot, FWIW.

 

[EaglesPA]

so I had posted earlier about considering cook county hospital vs. the traditional academic programs, but after talking with people about training at a program with FMGs (I'll be an AMG), I decided against it. so now i'm even more conflicted.

Northwestern: shortest drive for me (20-25 min), I like everything about this program (autonomy, facilities, didactics, etc) except I feel I might not fit in....most of the people seem to come from prestigious pedigrees/well-off backgrounds, do the traditional bars/clubbing scene, seem not to joke as much or more so share my style of humor, whereas i'm more from a blue collar/lower middle class background with a huge orientation towards my big extended family, tend to be laid back and joke around (though i'm just as driven as anyone), and also i'm not white whereas most of the patients/staff there are. I'm probably coming off as offensive but it's hard to explain the feeling. It's just I do notice a palpable difference b/w the environment I come from and feel comfortable in and the general culture of the people at NW

U of Chicago: longest drive for me (45-50 min), paper charts BIG and old hospital, toughest call schedule, interesting pathology. autonomy and didactics seemed to be really good, I could relate to the people here, but i'm not so gung-ho about research though (maybe haven't found the right project though)

University of Illinois - Chicago: tolerable commute (30 min), very diverse residents with whom i'd fit right in (best out of all the programs), not as good reputation as the others, but excellent PD and didactics, dumpy facilities unfortunately

how would you rank these three given what I've said above? I won't be specializing. i'm thinking just go with NW (mainly due to commute and nice facilities) and hope for the best?

Based on above,
1. Northwestern - It seems to me that it has almost everything you are looking for except you fear you may not fit in - but if you go in without that mindset, you'll find a way. And Chicago is a big enough city that you can find other people outside your residency for socializing.
2. UoChicago
3. UIC

 

[Frugal Traveler]

Honestly, on this board, I doubt anyone would recommend you pass up Hopkins for Duke (especially if interested in GI -- MAYBE it'd be a toss up if you're thinking cards).

That said, you can do whatever you want. I personally like Durham a lot, FWIW.

I agree... I was not crazy about Baltimore, but I thought Hopkins was a slam dunk as far as potential training opportunity. I liked Duke and Durham as well. You have to consider the call schedule and autonomy issues with the Osler service, though. I had to think a long time about whether I learned that or was ready for that.

 

[ResidentMD]

so I had posted earlier about considering cook county hospital vs. the traditional academic programs, but after talking with people about training at a program with FMGs (I'll be an AMG), I decided against it. so now i'm even more conflicted.

Northwestern: shortest drive for me (20-25 min), I like everything about this program (autonomy, facilities, didactics, etc) except I feel I might not fit in....most of the people seem to come from prestigious pedigrees/well-off backgrounds, do the traditional bars/clubbing scene, seem not to joke as much or more so share my style of humor, whereas i'm more from a blue collar/lower middle class background with a huge orientation towards my big extended family, tend to be laid back and joke around (though i'm just as driven as anyone), and also i'm not white whereas most of the patients/staff there are. I'm probably coming off as offensive but it's hard to explain the feeling. It's just I do notice a palpable difference b/w the environment I come from and feel comfortable in and the general culture of the people at NW

U of Chicago: longest drive for me (45-50 min), paper charts BIG and old hospital, toughest call schedule, interesting pathology. autonomy and didactics seemed to be really good, I could relate to the people here, but i'm not so gung-ho about research (maybe haven't found the right project though)

University of Illinois - Chicago: tolerable commute (30 min), very diverse residents with whom i'd fit right in (best out of all the programs), not as good reputation as the others, but excellent PD and didactics, dumpy facilities unfortunately

how would you rank these three given what I've said above? I won't be specializing. i'm thinking just go with NW (mainly due to commute and nice facilities) and hope for the best?

Just out of curiosity, is this the ONLY reason why you have discarded Cook County - if you find everything else there perfect for you? You said you dont seem to fit into NW; I understand that Cook County has no "pedigree" or no spectacular fellowship outcomes, but from your previous post I gather you really wanted the down-and-dirty medicine, and that's all that you wanted - no pedigree or fellowships. So is the IMG thing the only reason that you have bumped off Cook County from your rank 1 to not ranking it at all?

 

[toods]

Thanks houstoncfh and Frugal, I really appreciate the responses.

Truth is I am a little scared of Hopkins' 1st year schedule. That, combined with my not being in love with Baltimore, makes me hesitant to place it at #1.

With Duke, I felt like the call schedule is more relaxed and I like Durham/Raleigh a lot more.

In the end though, you guys are right. Hopkins is Hopkins and there is a reason for it; the opportunities it affords you post-residency are unparalleled.

It's tough

 

[chitown82]

so I had posted earlier about considering cook county hospital vs. the traditional academic programs, but after talking with people about training at a program with FMGs (I'll be an AMG), I decided against it. so now i'm even more conflicted.

Northwestern: shortest drive for me (20-25 min), I like everything about this program (autonomy, facilities, didactics, etc) except I feel I might not fit in....most of the people seem to come from prestigious pedigrees/well-off backgrounds, do the traditional bars/clubbing scene, seem not to joke as much or more so share my style of humor, whereas i'm more from a blue collar/lower middle class background with a huge orientation towards my big extended family, tend to be laid back and joke around (though i'm just as driven as anyone), and also i'm not white whereas most of the patients/staff there are. I'm probably coming off as offensive but it's hard to explain the feeling. It's just I do notice a palpable difference b/w the environment I come from and feel comfortable in and the general culture of the people at NW

U of Chicago: longest drive for me (45-50 min), paper charts BIG and old hospital, toughest call schedule, interesting pathology. autonomy and didactics seemed to be really good, I could relate to the people here, but i'm not so gung-ho about research (maybe haven't found the right project though)

University of Illinois - Chicago: tolerable commute (30 min), very diverse residents with whom i'd fit right in (best out of all the programs), not as good reputation as the others, but excellent PD and didactics, dumpy facilities unfortunately

how would you rank these three given what I've said above? I won't be specializing. i'm thinking just go with NW (mainly due to commute and nice facilities) and hope for the best?

Don't forget that at UIC you spend about 40% of your training at the VA which is probably the best in the country as far as facilities go (Stanford included). The outpatient center is relatively new and modern as well. The inpatient facilities are certainly dated but in lieu of a new hospital that was recently voted down (given the state's financial woes), ~$60M is going to be spent on updating the existing hospital's infrastructure/facilities.

 

[Snuffbox]

I posted once in this thread, posting again as I've given it some more though. So for me, I've narrowed it down to UTSW, Emory, UChicago, and Cornell.

UTSW- I'm looking for a really strong clinical experience and Parkland definitely will provide it. I'm interested in cardiology down the road and UTSW seems to have a strong department. They seem to do good, not great for cardiology. The residents seemed like a really cool group and Dallas seems like a very good and affordable place to live.

Emory- Like UTSW, Grady will make you an excellent clinician. The program might be a little too big for my tastes and it was one of my least favorite pre-interview dinners. I had a very good time the interview day though. It seems like Emory, a very strong cardiology program, is incredibly willing to take their own as well which is a big plus. Atlanta seemed nice and affordable.

UChicago- A recurring theme in my programs, Chicago is another busy place! Probably the strongest cardiology match out of any of these programs. I had an awesome interview day here, though I was staying at a hotel in downtown. Dr. Woodruff is awesome. Also like the smaller program. Could be an expensive place to live.

Cornell- Very strong academic center. OK cardiology match that's a bit weaker than some of the programs. The residents seemed like a pretty laid back group. Seems like this issue of private patients is becoming less and less of a factor. NYC is nice

Thoughts/comments? This is driving me nuts

 

[toods]

I posted once in this thread, posting again as I've given it some more though. So for me, I've narrowed it down to UTSW, Emory, UChicago, and Cornell.

UTSW- I'm looking for a really strong clinical experience and Parkland definitely will provide it. I'm interested in cardiology down the road and UTSW seems to have a strong department. They seem to do good, not great for cardiology. The residents seemed like a really cool group and Dallas seems like a very good and affordable place to live.

Emory- Like UTSW, Grady will make you an excellent clinician. The program might be a little too big for my tastes and it was one of my least favorite pre-interview dinners. I had a very good time the interview day though. It seems like Emory, a very strong cardiology program, is incredibly willing to take their own as well which is a big plus. Atlanta seemed nice and affordable.

UChicago- A recurring theme in my programs, Chicago is another busy place! Probably the strongest cardiology match out of any of these programs. I had an awesome interview day here, though I was staying at a hotel in downtown. Dr. Woodruff is awesome. Also like the smaller program. Could be an expensive place to live.

Cornell- Very strong academic center. OK cardiology match that's a bit weaker than some of the programs. The residents seemed like a pretty laid back group. Seems like this issue of private patients is becoming less and less of a factor. NYC is nice

Thoughts/comments? This is driving me nuts

Of these programs, I only interviewed at UChicago and Cornell so I'll add my $0.02 on them.

For someone who wants to go into cards, I really think Cornell is the worst pick of this lot. I live in NYC now and while it's awesome to be here, it's not like you could really go wrong with any big city from a location perspective. On that note, I think Chicago totally fits the bill. And like you said, UChicago had a great atmosphere and a solid cards match list.

I'll let others comment more specifically on the other 2 programs, but the way I see it, for someone who wants to go into cards:

U Chicago > UTSW > Emory > Cornell

 

[Scaredshizzles]

Of these programs, I only interviewed at UChicago and Cornell so I'll add my $0.02 on them.

For someone who wants to go into cards, I really think Cornell is the worst pick of this lot. I live in NYC now and while it's awesome to be here, it's not like you could really go wrong with any big city from a location perspective. On that note, I think Chicago totally fits the bill. And like you said, UChicago had a great atmosphere and a solid cards match list.

I'll let others comment more specifically on the other 2 programs, but the way I see it, for someone who wants to go into cards:

U Chicago > UTSW > Emory > Cornell

Hmm...I don't think Cornell would be last on that list, although they are all good programs. Cornell has the advantage in terms of the fact that they seem to have no trouble matching 10 people into cards in years when cards is popular, and that you don't need to do a chief year there to get the spots...And NY Presbyterian has to be one of the stronger places in the country to do a cards fellowship.

 

[Snuffbox]

Of these programs, I only interviewed at UChicago and Cornell so I'll add my $0.02 on them.

For someone who wants to go into cards, I really think Cornell is the worst pick of this lot. I live in NYC now and while it's awesome to be here, it's not like you could really go wrong with any big city from a location perspective. On that note, I think Chicago totally fits the bill. And like you said, UChicago had a great atmosphere and a solid cards match list.

I'll let others comment more specifically on the other 2 programs, but the way I see it, for someone who wants to go into cards:

U Chicago > UTSW > Emory > Cornell

Thanks- that's essentially the same feeling I've had- I'm just struggling with UTSW vs. Chicago badly right now though!

 

[motoo]

Based on above,
1. Northwestern - It seems to me that it has almost everything you are looking for except you fear you may not fit in - but if you go in without that mindset, you'll find a way. And Chicago is a big enough city that you can find other people outside your residency for socializing.
2. UoChicago
3. UIC

I do agree with you that there's always a way with the right attitude. Was just having second thoughts because my med school's culture/diversity is similar to NW's and these last 4 years have been disappointing at my school for that very reason.

Just out of curiosity, is this the ONLY reason why you have discarded Cook County - if you find everything else there perfect for you? You said you dont seem to fit into NW; I understand that Cook County has no "pedigree" or no spectacular fellowship outcomes, but from your previous post I gather you really wanted the down-and-dirty medicine, and that's all that you wanted - no pedigree or fellowships. So is the IMG thing the only reason that you have bumped off Cook County from your rank 1 to not ranking it at all?

good question, and "down-and-dirty" is exactly what I'm looking for. On my interview day though, I just noticed that morning report, while a great discussion, was somewhat antagonistic (residents correcting attendings, speaking out of turn or not letting others speak, etc). It was something I've never seen elsewhere but apparently is common at FMG programs based on what a friend (who's worked with many) told me. Perhaps it stems from the fact that the majority of them want fellowship and their only realistic chance is their own program, so they feel the need to really up their game and shine above the others (leading to the rude behavior). Also, if you look like a FMG. people automatically assume you are one, including nurses and attendings. This comes up when attendings compare your fresh-out-of-school knowledge & skills to your fellow FMG intern, who was already an attending back in his home country. You start off already at a disadvantage. with that said, 95% of the people I've come across at cook county have been friendly, and a surprise to me, but they have the smartest general internists (and many specialists) i've seen out of any of the chicago hospitals (including the major academic centers).

Don't forget that at UIC you spend about 40% of your training at the VA which is probably the best in the country as far as facilities go (Stanford included). The outpatient center is relatively new and modern as well. The inpatient facilities are certainly dated but in lieu of a new hospital that was recently voted down (given the state's financial woes), ~$60M is going to be spent on updating the existing hospital's infrastructure/facilities.

thanks for the info. didn't know that was going on (no mention during my interview day). and yeah, the Jesse Brown VA looks really nice now, especially compared to some of the other VAs in the chicagoland area

 

[futureres]

Hey everyone, I had posted earlier in this thread and I'm thankful for the responses I got.

Still having a really hard time deciding between JHU and Duke. Liked both places pretty much equally, though not a huge fan of Baltimore.

Definitely want to go into GI. Any thoughts on which program I should rank #1?

I don't think you would be shooting yourself in the foot by going to Duke over JH. The issue is, if you're not comfortable with Hopkins/Baltimore, the risk of being an unhappy resident there is high. Hopkins has the toughest internship year by far, and the interns who seem to love it there are wholeheartedly committed to it. GI is very competitive and Hopkins definitely gives you the edge, but Duke's GI match list is strong as well. Both are awesome programs, go with what feels right because going against that could do more harm (i.e. miserable intern=mediocrity=mediocre letters=poor GI match).

 

[IDforMe]

I'm interested in GI

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm having a particularly difficult time deciding between Rush and Loyola.

Things to consider: Loyola has totally integrated EMR, no private attendings, unlike Rush. Also, Rush residents were very lukewarm about the program (at least when I was there) and the fact that the administration had to take 45 minutes to explain all the ways in which they WON'T tolerate residents being mistreated at Rush was a huge warning sign for me. Finally, Loyola has a much better lecture schedule and actually expects interns go to morning report regularly, whereas at Rush they said almost no one went intern year b/c of the work load. (FWIW, having interviewed at both, I'd choose Loyola hands down. As you can tell, I'm biased, but it's based in large part on the factors above.)

 

[ResidentMD]

good question, and "down-and-dirty" is exactly what I'm looking for. On my interview day though, I just noticed that morning report, while a great discussion, was somewhat antagonistic (residents correcting attendings, speaking out of turn or not letting others speak, etc). It was something I've never seen elsewhere but apparently is common at FMG programs based on what a friend (who's worked with many) told me. Perhaps it stems from the fact that the majority of them want fellowship and their only realistic chance is their own program, so they feel the need to really up their game and shine above the others (leading to the rude behavior). Also, if you look like a FMG. people automatically assume you are one, including nurses and attendings. This comes up when attendings compare your fresh-out-of-school knowledge & skills to your fellow FMG intern, who was already an attending back in his home country. You start off already at a disadvantage. with that said, 95% of the people I've come across at cook county have been friendly, and a surprise to me, but they have the smartest general internists (and many specialists) i've seen out of any of the chicago hospitals (including the major academic centers).

I would agree on a few points; I think the bigger issue is because the attendings in foreign countries tend to expect a lot more from their students and residents; and their temperament may be different. I do see your point and in this case, it may be better you avoid cook county. However, your observations regarding Cook County may not be generalizable to all programs that have FMGs.

 

[holoo]

What do you guys think of a program like Cleveland Clinic that has many FMGs? Did you get the same type of feeling there when you interviewed there? Any input would be appreciated

I agree with all the point that you all have mentioned above about working with FMGs, as far as WAY higher expectations, higher knowledge base, greater medical experience and just different training culture that we have been brought up in. Having said that, I have heard about the compatitive culture of residents at Cook County!

 

[BlazerMed]

Interested in GI, no desire to leave the southeast (ever). This is my rank list, made after discussions with my wife:

1. UAB
2. Duke
3. Vanderbilt
4. Virginia
5. MUSC
6. Wake Forest
7. Emory
8. South Alabama
9. Florida (Gainesville)

Thoughts?