Official 2011-2012 IM "How To Rank" Thread

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Any thoughts on the best cities/programs for single residents? Some residencies are known for having mainly all married or engaged residents. I am looking at:

Northwestern
University of Chicago
BIDMC
Boston University
Tufts
UNC
Duke
Emory
Yale
Brown
University of Washington
VCU
 
disregardfemalesacquirecurrency.gif
 
I'm in a similar situation as you, and do not know a lot about all of those programs...but I feel that it's really the location that matters...any decent sized city has plenty of single people to meet...you have a pretty good list of such places, with places like Chicago, Boston, Atlanta, Richmond, etc...glancing at that list, I would say programs like Duke, UNC, Yale, and Brown would probably present fewer opportunities to meet other singles, but I think you can probably make most places work
 
I think if you have a university program next to a college like duke or UNC might present good oportunities
 
Was wondering how ppl would rank these programs...location is not really an issue for me and I am interested in cards...

Bayview, Ohio State, UIC/Loyola, UCSD?
 
so i realize my mistake and I meant to write UC Davis, not San Diego. Maybe my subconscious...
 
I am beginning to really appreciate how our "gut" feeling will influence the rank. I have been really impressed by a few programs that I felt really comfortable at.

Location + Gut=Happiness?

FWIW, I was really appreciate with a lot of the Ohio programs.
 
DrVanNostran said:
I am beginning to really appreciate how our "gut" feeling will influence the rank. I have been really impressed by a few programs that I felt really comfortable at.
Click to expand...

Ditto... I'm actually getting a little scared of my "gut" feeling. I recently interviewed at a university program in the Midwest that is not a top 25 program, has several IMGs each year, and has solid in-house fellowship placement. I fell in love with the residents, the PD, and the program. I felt really comfortable and could really see myself there for 3+ years... more so than some "higher caliber" programs that I already interviewed at (ie. UCLA, WashU, Vandy, etc).

jdh or gutonc or anyone else, would I be crazy to rank this program higher than "higher caliber" places? After all, my interactions with the program were limited to a pre-interview dinner and the interview day itself.


On a side note, anyone else excited about the bevy of NFL games tomorrow? 😀
 
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applegeek1234 said:
jdh or gutonc or anyone else, would I be crazy to rank this place higher than "higher caliber" places? After all, my interactions with the program were limited to a pre-interview dinner and the interview day itself.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I did. Chose a mid-tier place that I loved (and still do) over several "higher caliber" places. I did it again for fellowship. Still don't regret it.

YMMV of course.
 
Heres my list, what do you think? Endocrine fellowship and I favor NYC for social reasons.

MGH
Yale
Penn
Cornell
MSSM
NYU
 
CaipirinhaQuinho said:
Heres my list, what do you think? Endocrine fellowship and I favor NYC for social reasons.

MGH
Yale
Penn
Cornell
MSSM
NYU
Click to expand...

The first three have three of the best endocrine departments in the country...tough to ignore. That being said, however, you'll match exceptionally well for endocrine out of any of these programs, so if you want nyc for personal reasons, then roll with it:

Cornell >/= Sinai > NYU

Taking reputation/endocrine strength solely into account:
MGH > Penn > Yale >/= Cornell > Sinai > NYU
 
obiwan said:
I think if you have a university program next to a college like duke or UNC might present good oportunities
Click to expand...

Same argument holds true for new haven, and providence has both college kids and a quirky downtown. Generally, though, the bigger the city, the better the social options. Gotta love Richmond though. 🙂
 
You're describing my experience as well. I didn't rank the highest rep at the top of my list for residency or fellowship. It has been good for me. So I don't think you are crazy. Gotta go where you think you will grow and thrive.

applegeek1234 said:


Ditto... I'm actually getting a little scared of my "gut" feeling. I recently interviewed at a university program in the Midwest that is not a top 25 program, has several IMGs each year, and has solid in-house fellowship placement. I fell in love with the residents, the PD, and the program. I felt really comfortable and could really see myself there for 3+ years... more so than some "higher caliber" programs that I already interviewed at (ie. UCLA, WashU, Vandy, etc).

jdh or gutonc or anyone else, would I be crazy to rank this program higher than "higher caliber" places? After all, my interactions with the program were limited to a pre-interview dinner and the interview day itself.


On a side note, anyone else excited about the bevy of NFL games tomorrow? 😀
Click to expand...
 
gutonc said:
That's exactly what I did. Chose a mid-tier place that I loved (and still do) over several "higher caliber" places. I did it again for fellowship. Still don't regret it.

YMMV of course.
Click to expand...

jdh71 said:
You're describing my experience as well. I didn't rank the highest rep at the top of my list for residency or fellowship. It has been good for me. So I don't think you are crazy. Gotta go where you think you will grow and thrive.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input! 👍
Happy Holidays!
 
OptimusKane said:
I go to an mid-tier state school, not AOA. Rejected from JHU-Osler and got an interview at Penn. Not an MD/PhD but have some great research. Really loved Penn and definitely felt out of my league in terms of what schools applicants were coming from during my interview day, but who knows if that means anything
Click to expand...
There seems to be two schools of thought with this one, those that think penn is equal if not better and Hopkin is riding an antiquated reputation and others who think that JHU truly has a better training program up their with MGH, BWH and UCSF. I guess my issue comes down to if Penn is right up there I imagine the location to put it ahead of Hopkins, but if Hopkins truly has a better program I think I could stomach Baltimore. Decisions decisions. Any fellows out there willing to weigh in?
 
KeepOnTruckin31 said:
There seems to be two schools of thought with this one, those that think penn is equal if not better and Hopkin is riding an antiquated reputation and others who think that JHU truly has a better training program up their with MGH, BWH and UCSF. I guess my issue comes down to if Penn is right up there I imagine the location to put it ahead of Hopkins, but if Hopkins truly has a better program I think I could stomach Baltimore. Decisions decisions. Any fellows out there willing to weigh in?
Click to expand...

If the decision is between the two, I think its obvious that you got to the program that you felt more comfortable with and the city that you prefer. Both places will get you into any fellowship anywhere. UCSF/MGH/BWH wouldn't discriminate against an Osler vs. Penn grad.

Congrats on the dilemma though 😀 Hopefully you end up at your number 1 :luck:
 
StudentDoctor55 said:
Any thoughts on the best cities/programs for single residents? Some residencies are known for having mainly all married or engaged residents. I am looking at:

Northwestern
University of Chicago
BIDMC
Boston University
Tufts
UNC
Duke
Emory
Yale
Brown
University of Washington
VCU
Click to expand...

Assuming you are Male
Atlanta (the ratio is ridic)
Chicago (easily the biggest city on the list, great downtown area)
Boston (so many grad students and residents)
Seattle (fun relatively big city)
Durham/Chapel Hill (near large universities)
Providence
New Haven (yuck)
 
StudentDoctor55 said:
Any thoughts on the best cities/programs for single residents? Some residencies are known for having mainly all married or engaged residents. I am looking at:

Northwestern
University of Chicago
BIDMC
Boston University
Tufts
UNC
Duke
Emory
Yale
Brown
University of Washington
VCU
Click to expand...

2012mdc said:
Assuming you are Male
Atlanta (the ratio is ridic)
Click to expand...

You are also assuming he/she is straight. For the greatest amount of diversity (people, population, socioeconomic, education, etc) here is what I think:

Seattle's really great - Lots of singles and fun things to do. You sorta have to live in the downtown area or fremont area since Seattle has a ton of urban sprawl. Diversity here is top notch (singles, married, women, men, LGBT, etc)

The other places on your list, Boston and Chicago are pretty comparable. Boston has more of an intellectual feel while Chicago is more industrial and financial. Also there's a east vs. midwest feel. I would say Chicago is generally "friendlier" but it's sorta whatever you're use to or willing to accommodate to.

Atlanta's the financial/social epicenter of the south, so it's also a great option. However, it's in the south, so if you're not use to that kind of living, it may not be right for you. Lots of young people, singles and diversity here though.
 
BHMD3 said:
You are also assuming he/she is straight. For the greatest amount of diversity (people, population, socioeconomic, education, etc) here is what I think:

Seattle has a ton of urban sprawl. Diversity here is top notch (singles, married, women, men, LGBT, etc)
Click to expand...

As long as you don't mind all those "diverse" people being white, then yes, Seattle is extremely diverse.
 
Here's my low-mid tier rank list. A lot of community programs on here that most people probably haven't heard of, but I was pleasantly surprised by a few of them. Any thoughts on this RL?

Location isn't a big issue, though I would prefer SoCal as that's where I'm originally from. I'm not 100% sure about going into a fellowship later, but I'm looking for a place that will keep that option open. That's why I've ranked the primary care tracks of university programs high... my understanding is that they provide a lot of primary care experience but don't discourage pursuing a fellowship if that's what you really want to do later, which sounds great for me. What would be a bigger hindrance for fellowship apps: community hospital residency vs. primary track at university?

On the other hand, Howard and SUNY Downstate (both uni programs) didn't "feel" that great to me so I put a bunch of community programs above them. The last few ones I'm debating whether I'll rank at all

USC
Boston U categorical
Loma Linda categorical
Boston U primary care track
Loma Linda primary care track
Winthrop
Christiana Care
Lahey Clinic
Lankenau
St Mary Long Beach
Legacy Emanuel
LeHigh
Summa Health
Howard University
SUNY Downstate
Greenwich
New York Hospital Queens
York Hospital
Canton Medicine
 
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gutonc said:
As long as you don't mind all those "diverse" people being white, then yes, Seattle is extremely diverse.
Click to expand...

I mean, it's a little hard to get away from white people in this country... if you haven't noticed.
 
BHMD3 said:
You are also assuming he/she is straight. For the greatest amount of diversity (people, population, socioeconomic, education, etc) here is what I think:

Seattle's really great - Lots of singles and fun things to do. You sorta have to live in the downtown area or fremont area since Seattle has a ton of urban sprawl. Diversity here is top notch (singles, married, women, men, LGBT, etc)

The other places on your list, Boston and Chicago are pretty comparable. Boston has more of an intellectual feel while Chicago is more industrial and financial. Also there's a east vs. midwest feel. I would say Chicago is generally "friendlier" but it's sorta whatever you're use to or willing to accommodate to.

Atlanta's the financial/social epicenter of the south, so it's also a great option. However, it's in the south, so if you're not use to that kind of living, it may not be right for you. Lots of young people, singles and diversity here though.
Click to expand...

If he/she isn't straight then Atlanta is even a better option.

Also Atlanta and Chicago are easily the most diverse cities out of that list.
 
BHMD3 said:
I mean, it's a little hard to get away from white people in this country... if you haven't noticed.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to get away from white people (it would be lonely being the only honky in the room). But you can't call a place (like Seattle) "diverse" without recognizing and admitting that everyone there basically looks the same, no matter who they go to bed with (which is how you characterized Seattle as diverse).

It's not good or bad, it just is.
 
gutonc said:
I'm not trying to get away from white people (it would be lonely being the only honky in the room). But you can't call a place (like Seattle) "diverse" without recognizing and admitting that everyone there basically looks the same, no matter who they go to bed with (which is how you characterized Seattle as diverse).

It's not good or bad, it just is.
Click to expand...

I've lived in Chicago (4 years) and Seattle (4 years) and LA (10 years), and I have to say gutonc is right on. For a big-ish city, Seattle is not ethnically diverse compared to Chicago, LA, etc! It's fact -- per Wikipedia, Caucasians (non-hispanic whites) are 66.3 percent of the population in Seattle, while Chicago is 31.7% (non-hispanic whites), LA 29.8%(non-hispanic whites). As a minority, moving to Seattle and discovering this was a surprise!
 
I was wondering what people thought about top NYC programs vs. other East Coast top programs? My fiancee's family is in NY and is pretty stuck on staying in NYC while I think there may be better training opportunities for me in Boston, Philly, Baltimore etc. Is there something lost (either in terms of training or future desirability) coming from, say, Columbia or Cornell vs. Hopkins/MGH/BWH/Penn etc. I'll likely specialize, not sure in what yet.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
Sylar11 said:
I was wondering what people thought about top NYC programs vs. other East Coast top programs? My fiancee's family is in NY and is pretty stuck on staying in NYC while I think there may be better training opportunities for me in Boston, Philly, Baltimore etc. Is there something lost (either in terms of training or future desirability) coming from, say, Columbia or Cornell vs. Hopkins/MGH/BWH/Penn etc. I'll likely specialize, not sure in what yet.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Short answer: No.

Long answer: People at one of those programs will likely argue that there is something to be gained from training there vs. one of the other places on your list. But, big picture, the answer is still no.
 
Khanal007 said:
I've lived in Chicago (4 years) and Seattle (4 years) and LA (10 years), and I have to say gutonc is right on. For a big-ish city, Seattle is not ethnically diverse compared to Chicago, LA, etc! It's fact -- per Wikipedia, Caucasians (non-hispanic whites) are 66.3 percent of the population in Seattle, while Chicago is 31.7% (non-hispanic whites), LA 29.8%(non-hispanic whites). As a minority, moving to Seattle and discovering this was a surprise!
Click to expand...

I feel you. It's one of the reasons I'm wary of living in Boston
 
gutonc said:
I'm not trying to get away from white people (it would be lonely being the only honky in the room). But you can't call a place (like Seattle) "diverse" without recognizing and admitting that everyone there basically looks the same, no matter who they go to bed with (which is how you characterized Seattle as diverse).

It's not good or bad, it just is.
Click to expand...

Regardless of what your interpretation of my using of the word "diverse" means, the OP's original intent of the post was to ask for best cities for singles. And by that, I still stand by my point that Seattle would be a great option.
 
pocketion said:
Here's my low-mid tier rank list. A lot of community programs on here that most people probably haven't heard of, but I was pleasantly surprised by a few of them. Any thoughts on this RL?

Location isn't a big issue, though I would prefer SoCal as that's where I'm originally from. I'm not 100% sure about going into a fellowship later, but I'm looking for a place that will keep that option open. That's why I've ranked the primary care tracks of university programs high... my understanding is that they provide a lot of primary care experience but don't discourage pursuing a fellowship if that's what you really want to do later, which sounds great for me. What would be a bigger hindrance for fellowship apps: community hospital residency vs. primary track at university?

On the other hand, Howard and SUNY Downstate (both uni programs) didn't "feel" that great to me so I put a bunch of community programs above them. The last few ones I'm debating whether I'll rank at all

USC
Boston U categorical
Loma Linda categorical
Boston U primary care track
Loma Linda primary care track
Winthrop
Christiana Care
Lahey Clinic
Lankenau
St Mary Long Beach
Legacy Emanuel
LeHigh
Summa Health
Howard University
SUNY Downstate
Greenwich
New York Hospital Queens
York Hospital
Canton Medicine
Click to expand...

List looks good to me
 
gutonc said:
Short answer: No.

Long answer: People at one of those programs will likely argue that there is something to be gained from training there vs. one of the other places on your list. But, big picture, the answer is still no.
Click to expand...

Agreed. There is nothing that the other big east programs add to the mix in a practical sense that you can't get at the big programs in NYC
 
BHMD3 said:
Regardless of what your interpretation of my using of the word "diverse" means, the OP's original intent of the post was to ask for best cities for singles. And by that, I still stand by my point that Seattle would be a great option.
Click to expand...

not sure if mad brah . . .
 
BHMD3 said:
Regardless of what your interpretation of my using of the word "diverse" means, the OP's original intent of the post was to ask for best cities for singles. And by that, I still stand by my point that Seattle would be a great option.
Click to expand...

And your answer to the OP's original question was " For the greatest amount of diversity (people, population, socioeconomic, education, etc) here is what I think

Seattle's really great - "

You used diversity to back up your listing of Seattle as a great city for singles so it obviously matters how people interpet diverse. I personally think Atlanta, Chicago, and Boston are better cities for singles using your criteria. But choosing between the 4 is pretty much first world problems anyway.
 
Can't decide whether to go with my 'gut feeling' or choose the most academic program. I'm planning on going into nephrology so initially I thought it wouldn't matter as much as nephrology is not that competitive but what if after my intern year, I decide I like cards/GI instead? Should I just pick a more academic university program over a community one?

Location is also another issue, there are programs I love but they're not necessarily in cities I love, and vice versa.
 
arielred said:
Can't decide whether to go with my 'gut feeling' or choose the most academic program. I'm planning on going into nephrology so initially I thought it wouldn't matter as much as nephrology is not that competitive but what if after my intern year, I decide I like cards/GI instead? Should I just pick a more academic university program over a community one?

Location is also another issue, there are programs I love but they're not necessarily in cities I love, and vice versa.
Click to expand...

I don't know man. I went with my gut to one of the least interesting cities in the county. I survived. I guess it simply wasnt as important to me.
 
arielred said:
Can't decide whether to go with my 'gut feeling' or choose the most academic program. I'm planning on going into nephrology so initially I thought it wouldn't matter as much as nephrology is not that competitive but what if after my intern year, I decide I like cards/GI instead? Should I just pick a more academic university program over a community one?

Location is also another issue, there are programs I love but they're not necessarily in cities I love, and vice versa.
Click to expand...

Tough call, especially since you're not naming names (which is fine, but makes this more complicated for outside observers to comment on).

There are plenty of strong community programs out there as well as poor/mediocre university programs. Also, if you look at the fellowship matches of essentially every program in the country, you will find people who match to every specialty, every year. So don't go to a program strictly based on reputation. And don't go to one strictly based on location. And don't choose strictly based on "gut." Put them all together and know that, wherever you wind up, if you put in the work, you can make a successful career for yourself down the road.
 
All things being equal, how do you guys feel about U of C NorthShore vs Beaumont in MI?
Beaumont has more in-house fellowships and you don't have to travel between multiple hospitals but NorthShore seems to be more social since it is more AMGs/DOs.

I have family and friends in both areas.
 
Want to stay in academics with an emphasis on teaching. Not sure about fellowship, but don't want to do GI or cards. Pulm/CC or ID would be a possibility. Thoughts?

I really loved Madison, WI, which was a surprise. Wouldn't want to close any doors for fellowship match, though..

Michigan
Northwestern
Wisconsin
BIDMC
Mayo
Georgetown
Colorado
Minnesota
Iowa
GWU
 
jilliumm said:
Want to stay in academics with an emphasis on teaching. Not sure about fellowship, but don't want to do GI or cards. Pulm/CC or ID would be a possibility. Thoughts?

I really loved Madison, WI, which was a surprise. Wouldn't want to close any doors for fellowship match, though..

Michigan
Northwestern
Wisconsin
BIDMC
Mayo
Georgetown
Colorado
Minnesota
Iowa
GWU
Click to expand...

I've been telling people for years that UWisconsin is the TITS - NO ONE will believe until they go there and check it out. Bottom line: NONE of those programs closes ANY doors to ID or Pulm/CC. I'd probably break the list down such as . . .

Michigan
NWern = BID
Wisconsin = Mayo
UMinn = Iowa = Colorado
GW
GT
 
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