Official 2018 Rank Order Lists

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

My apologies for bumping my own post - would love for any contributions if at all possible!

Additionally, curious as to how others perceive/would rank these other programs: Emory, HSS, Institute of Living, Mayo, Mount Sinai BI, Rutgers RWJ, Vanderbilt.

Thank you so very much for any assistance!

Heard from other applicants HSS sends everyone the same love letter right after interview :/

I interviewed at these three and also really enjoyed the people at IoL, but felt like they had very little research going on. I asked some residents about research and one didn't seem to know what an IRB was :/. Hartford is also Hartford. Most people seemed less than thrilled with it, but admitted it was an adequate place to spend 4 years assuming you lived in the right neighborhoods.

Personally I loved Dartmouth, but if your SO needs a metropolitan area... that kind of places Dartmouth out of the question. They seemed to have tons of research going on though, opportunities to create whatever projects you want, and a really open mind about residents starting up community projects and research. A little bit more of a workhorse program by the sounds of it. They do have the LPMR fellowship which sounds awesome for public policy/service/community related stuff.

UMass is actually in a decent sized city for your SO to maybe find work? They sounded like their research was pretty intensely neuropsych focused with Dr. Benjamin, although one resident talked about doing an entire project on the history of psychiatry, so it's not like they're not open to other things... super family friendly, everyone seemed to be married and have children. Not sure how much service/public policy stuff is going on there.

Based on what you want and my super limited impression of the programs, I'd put these three as 1) UMass 2) Dartmouth 3) IoL. I'd rank Dartmouth over UMass if it weren't for location for your SO. I got the feeling they had better public sector/community opportunities and being paid a salary to get an MPH through the LPMR fellowship is pretty awesome.

Thank you so much! It helps to hear an objective perspective. I'd be more than happy to do the same, if you also are between a few programs.

On paper, Dartmouth would be perfect for me except for the location. In addition to my SO, I also did not like the area myself but it's closeish to family. I've heard quite a few residents have transferred out as well.

Umass seems like a strong program I just have heard the commute to and from Boston would be too intense. Express commuter rail is very limited.

IoL really impressed me with the faculty and the residents seemed fun. They had me meet with a research advisor who was very nice, but he had difficulty describing how residents can be involved in clinical research. (Also, when I was leaving Hartford someone tried to get into my car as I was waiting at a red light, so, there's that...)

Stress levels are high. If I don't match in a larger city I'll likely be doing a LDR for the next few years. My top choices are in ideal locations and are very strong programs, but they are reaches as I've mentioned. So weighing community programs in cities vs programs where I can continue my research. Met a lot of amazing/fun co-applicants this year and know this is stressful for all of us in different ways.

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[Mighty Muse]

Heard from other applicants HSS sends everyone the same love letter right after interview :/

I can attest to receiving some form of that love letter it seems!

I also had a more positive impression of Rutgers RWJ - I appreciated most their devotion to teaching medical students.

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

I can attest to receiving some form of that love letter it seems!

I also had a more positive impression of Rutgers RWJ - I appreciated most their devotion to teaching medical students.

Glad I'm not alone with the RWJ love!

One thing that may have bothered me, which I'm not sure is a really big deal, is at the psych emergency ED where you are doing a lot of the overnight call the lab is closed after business hours if I am remembering correctly. I wonder if this is an issue with getting BAC. We needed this at my home institution quite frequently for legals when you realize the person you interview with may be intoxicated. Or with bhcg to go inpatient. Maybe this isn't a big deal since things get delayed to the morning anyway.

 

[Mighty Muse]

Glad I'm not alone with the RWJ love!

One thing that may have bothered me, which I'm not sure is a really big deal, is at the psych emergency ED where you are doing a lot of the overnight call the lab is closed after business hours if I am remembering correctly. I wonder if this is an issue with getting BAC. We needed this at my home institution quite frequently for legals when you realize the person you interview with may be intoxicated. Or with bhcg to go inpatient. Maybe this isn't a big deal since things get delayed to the morning anyway.

I recall noting the same concern!

While I cannot say for certain, one of the other less positive parts of the program that I remember sticking out is the lack of moonlighting due to NJ law - while not major, something to keep in mind!

 

[Anonymous165]

Would love to hear anyone's input on the following programs:

USC
Emory
UNC
Duke
WashU
UCLA-SFV
UAB
MUSC
UVA
Utah
Dartmouth
Boston U
Harvard South Shore
UT Houston
UT Austin
UT San Antonio
Indiana U
U Wisconsin

Right now I'd like to do outpatient primarily, with a focus on interventional/neuromodulation (TMS, ECT, ketamine, etc). Unfortunately still not sure how much psychotherapy I want. I don't plan on going into academics, but I'd like to have some research on the side. Truth be told, my dream/fantasy is to get involved in research/clinical trials with psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy (MDMA, psilocybin and LSD). Generally, however, I place a higher emphasis on location and a reasonable schedule over prestige.

Thank you!

 

[munchausen]

Interested in this as well! Particularly Re: BI. I was humbled by the interview invites I have received and I am second guessing ranking BI higher than more stable programs.

The fact they were expanding the number of residents was reassuring. One big question I left with is regarding subsidized housing. One resident said they lost it and another said it was still available. Anyone know?

My impression was that it's unstable for every other specialty but expanding for psychiatry, at least thats what the PD said

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

My impression was that it's unstable for every other specialty but expanding for psychiatry, at least thats what the PD said

"Comprehensive Behavioral Health Institute. MSBI also plans to create a unique Comprehensive Behavioral Health Institute to serve patients, families and the community of downtown Manhattan. The flagship building of the Institute will be the Bernstein Pavilion on 16th Street, which will provide enhanced behavioral health services as part of a continuum of integrated inpatient, emergency, intensive outpatient, and ambulatory services, including primary care service."
-from mount sinais main website (Sdn not letting me include links)

I'm reassured this is listed on the hospitals system website rather than just the PD PowerPoint

 

[Doc1401]

Would love to hear anyone's input on the following programs:

USC
Emory
UNC
Duke
WashU
UCLA-SFV
UAB
MUSC
UVA
Utah
Dartmouth
Boston U
Harvard South Shore
UT Houston
UT Austin
UT San Antonio
Indiana U
U Wisconsin

Right now I'd like to do outpatient primarily, with a focus on interventional/neuromodulation (TMS, ECT, ketamine, etc). Unfortunately still not sure how much psychotherapy I want. I don't plan on going into academics, but I'd like to have some research on the side. Truth be told, my dream/fantasy is to get involved in research/clinical trials with psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy (MDMA, psilocybin and LSD). Generally, however, I place a higher emphasis on location and a reasonable schedule over prestige.

Thank you!

1) Emory
2) HSS
3) UCLA
4) Wash U
5) Duke
6) UNC
7) USC
8) UVA

Then it becomes less clear.

 

[munchausen]

Can someone comment on University of Chicago vs. Northwestern vs UIC ?

 

[Anonymous165]

1) Emory
2) HSS
3) UCLA
4) Wash U
5) Duke
6) UNC
7) USC
8) UVA

Then it becomes less clear.

Thanks, would you mind elaborating?

 

[SmallBird]

1) Emory
2) HSS
3) UCLA
4) Wash U
5) Duke
6) UNC
7) USC
8) UVA

Then it becomes less clear.

I don’t even see that those first 8 are clear. My own would look completely different - not saying your ranking wouldn’t make sense for you but I’d hardly say that it’s an obvious order. I think HSS gets an unfair shake on this forum but I wouldn’t put it close to second on a list with so many great places.

 

[Anonymous165]

I don’t even see that those first 8 are clear. My own would look completely different - not saying your ranking wouldn’t make sense for you but I’d hardly say that it’s an obvious order. I think HSS gets an unfair shake on this forum but I wouldn’t put it close to second on a list with so many great places.

How would your own look?

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

1) Emory
2) HSS
3) UCLA
4) Wash U
5) Duke
6) UNC
7) USC
8) UVA

Then it becomes less clear.

Uhh..... I guess if OP *really* wants to be in Boston.

OP, strong list. Congrats! From what I've heard Duke/UNC have research in neuromodulafion. I'd go with your gut here on which locations you'd prefer and sort your list that way unless they don't have what you are looking for with in terms of your neuromodulation research

 

[Doc1401]

Thanks, would you mind elaborating?

It would take forever to elaborate on the list in full detail. However, in terms of the neuromodulation component, you should look into the Emory Brain Health Center. Emory has an enormous ECT service (sometimes >20 sessions in one day). Dr. William McDonald leads the neuromodulation and treatment resistant depression clinic. Ketamine is performed several times a week. There were other threads on Emory's program as well.

These youtube videos may help you feel it out a bit:

 

[Amygdarya]

Re Emory: Helen Mayberg is moving to MtSinai in NYC this year. Just and FYI for anyone seriously interested in DBS.

 

[Sicke2018]

Any comments on these programs? Looking to move to the SE with areas of low COL. Interested in rural psych.

MCG - Augusta, South Alabama, Miss, UCF, Palmetto - USC, UAB, UF jax, ETSU

 

[FlowRate]

Emory, HSS, Vanderbilt.

Emory
UNC
Utah
Harvard South Shore

You two have a good bit of overlap and I feel comfortable talking about my impressions of some of these programs.

I really liked Vanderbilt, it was toward the top of my rank list. Reasonable call schedule, good mix of rotations, nice people, Nashville overall seemed nice. Very similar feelings about Utah--although I heard their residents were a little disgruntled following some changes that happened after my year's match. (2 years ago)

I thought that I'd like UNC more than I did. It seems really strong on paper. I just didn't feel that I clicked with their residents or the city. Emory was not bad but seemed like they work harder than necessary. Sounded like they might have been working on improving that some.

HSS is nowhere close to Emory/Vanderbilt/Utah/UNC in terms of quality of people or training. I didn't interview there, so I can't give first-hand impressions.

 

[Annoymous4life]

Need some help with this rank order list.

UT-RGV

St. Elizabeths Hospital- Washington DC

Stony Brook University- John T. Mather Memorial Hospital

UT-Houston

Baystate U-MASS

LSU-Shreveport

Richmond University Medical Center-Staten Island , NY

Mount Sinai Elmhurst

 

[deepsouthpsych]

Having trouble arranging the top of my rank list. End goal is child & adolescent and would love a program with a strong fellowship attached as SO would very much appreciate being able to stay in one spot for at least the next 5-6yrs. Other than that- no preference on location. We can make anywhere home.

1) Hopkins: Loved the diversity of clinical exposure with multiple in-patient units and multiple sub-specialist outpatient clinics that you're exposed to. Peds prelim spot. Residents were incredibly warm and intelligent. Attracts residents who aren't afraid of medicine or medical complexity in patients. Perspectives emphasized but residents stated they found it a helpful schema for thinking about patients and didn't feel like it was an overbearing manifesto. They work hard but I didn't meet anyone who seemed excessively tired, overwhelmed or struggling to balance family/life outside the hospital. Cons: Weaker consult-liaison experience? Lack of flexibility in schedule- no electives until PGY-4 and would not get those if I fast-tracked. Training translates to outside of the Hopkins system?

2) MGH- Child track: Diverse range of experiences. 6 mo peds intern year. Automatic acceptance into child fellowship. Loved learning about clinical evaluation center rotation at McLean. It sounds look they teach residents to be very thoughtful and purposeful in evaluating patients. Able to find experts in anything under the sun you might be interested in. Residents are an awesome group of intelligent, ambitious, but super nice (so nice!!) people. Cons: Lots of adolescent exposure. Not sure about robustness of school-age and younger children in fellowship years. Boston is super expensive.

3) U Pitt/WPIC: Child-track w/ up to 3mo peds intern year. Diverse range of clinical experiences w/ multiple in-patient units and outpatient clinic options. Tons of elective time. Want to help you become an expert in your areas of interest and tailor the program to you as much as possible outside of core requirements. Felt like a playground for psychiatry in terms of offerings and experts available. Cons: Met some residents who I loved and felt like I would fit in with. Met a handful that were off-putting. Pittsburgh weather- gray and rainy all the time?

4) UNC: Residents who were intelligent, friendly, clearly loved their work and the program. Love the structure of this program w/ output pgy-2 and continue seeing patients in the afternoon when go back to in-patient PGY-3. Multiple in-patient units. Exposure to the state hospital. We love the Chapel Hill/Raleigh-Durham area. Cons: No option for pediatric experience which I really want.

Each one changes position on my list everyday and I have no idea how to arrange these 1-4. Any thoughts or remarks would be super helpful!

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

Need some help with this rank order list.

UT-RGV

St. Elizabeths Hospital- Washington DC

Stony Brook University- John T. Mather Memorial Hospital

UT-Houston

Baystate U-MASS

LSU-Shreveport

Richmond University Medical Center-Staten Island , NY

Mount Sinai Elmhurst

Baystate vs Mather:
Although it is relatively new, Baystate stands out to me. It's at an established teaching institution and I personally left with a favorable impression. PD was very energetic and the faculty I met with seemed accomplished and friendly.

Mather is another new program but the administration seemed less experienced than Baystate. Beautiful hospital though.

 

[MrWonderful]

Would love to hear anyone's input on the following programs:

USC
Emory
UNC
Duke
WashU
UCLA-SFV
UAB
MUSC
UVA
Utah
Dartmouth
Boston U
Harvard South Shore
UT Houston
UT Austin
UT San Antonio
Indiana U
U Wisconsin

Right now I'd like to do outpatient primarily, with a focus on interventional/neuromodulation (TMS, ECT, ketamine, etc). Unfortunately still not sure how much psychotherapy I want. I don't plan on going into academics, but I'd like to have some research on the side. Truth be told, my dream/fantasy is to get involved in research/clinical trials with psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy (MDMA, psilocybin and LSD). Generally, however, I place a higher emphasis on location and a reasonable schedule over prestige.

Thank you!

UNC
Duke
Dartmouth
Emory
UT S.A.
WashU

 

[SmallBird]

Having trouble arranging the top of my rank list. End goal is child & adolescent and would love a program with a strong fellowship attached as SO would very much appreciate being able to stay in one spot for at least the next 5-6yrs. Other than that- no preference on location. We can make anywhere home.

1) Hopkins: Loved the diversity of clinical exposure with multiple in-patient units and multiple sub-specialist outpatient clinics that you're exposed to. Peds prelim spot. Residents were incredibly warm and intelligent. Attracts residents who aren't afraid of medicine or medical complexity in patients. Perspectives emphasized but residents stated they found it a helpful schema for thinking about patients and didn't feel like it was an overbearing manifesto. They work hard but I didn't meet anyone who seemed excessively tired, overwhelmed or struggling to balance family/life outside the hospital. Cons: Weaker consult-liaison experience? Lack of flexibility in schedule- no electives until PGY-4 and would not get those if I fast-tracked. Training translates to outside of the Hopkins system?

2) MGH- Child track: Diverse range of experiences. 6 mo peds intern year. Automatic acceptance into child fellowship. Loved learning about clinical evaluation center rotation at McLean. It sounds look they teach residents to be very thoughtful and purposeful in evaluating patients. Able to find experts in anything under the sun you might be interested in. Residents are an awesome group of intelligent, ambitious, but super nice (so nice!!) people. Cons: Lots of adolescent exposure. Not sure about robustness of school-age and younger children in fellowship years. Boston is super expensive.

3) U Pitt/WPIC: Child-track w/ up to 3mo peds intern year. Diverse range of clinical experiences w/ multiple in-patient units and outpatient clinic options. Tons of elective time. Want to help you become an expert in your areas of interest and tailor the program to you as much as possible outside of core requirements. Felt like a playground for psychiatry in terms of offerings and experts available. Cons: Met some residents who I loved and felt like I would fit in with. Met a handful that were off-putting. Pittsburgh weather- gray and rainy all the time?

4) UNC: Residents who were intelligent, friendly, clearly loved their work and the program. Love the structure of this program w/ output pgy-2 and continue seeing patients in the afternoon when go back to in-patient PGY-3. Multiple in-patient units. Exposure to the state hospital. We love the Chapel Hill/Raleigh-Durham area. Cons: No option for pediatric experience which I really want.

Each one changes position on my list everyday and I have no idea how to arrange these 1-4. Any thoughts or remarks would be super helpful!

Of the two programs I know a bit about:

Hopkins: In my limited by direct experience, the 'translatability' issue is a real one - I've met graduates who are clearly smart and competent, but stylistic outliers. I think if you can find a job after that lets you run your own show you will probably be fine, but fitting into most systems might require some adjustment. I'm sure you will have the required skills to work anywhere but you will need to be tolerant of a shift in approach.

MGH: Boston is expensive but you can find a way to make it less expensive. Obviously a terrific program, the residents there are great, the faculty is famous and engaged, and of those you listed it will offer a significantly richer fellowship experience in my opinion.

 

[rdk322]

1) love your top 3, given your stated goals.
2) I'd take Madison or Charleston in a heartbeat over St. Louis.

As a candidate thinking of ranking WashU very high what's wrong with St. Louis?? =( =( I've heard some people really don't like the city but I've enjoyed my weekend trips when I've been there a couple of times... but obviously I'm not super familiar with the city.

 

[3lefts]

This list probably looks pretty random to the outside eye. It is still in flux so I am very much open to comments. The list would probably look pretty different if I were single and didn’t have to consider my SO’s desires, and if we were not trying to have kids in the next few years. All of these programs are fantastic and worth checking out, and I am so grateful to have been offered interviews at them. The vast majority of the residents I met on the trail seemed very satisfied with their training and quality-of-life. The programs at the bottom of the list are only at the bottom because something had to be. I think I would be happy at any of these programs.

1. UC Davis — Sacramento, CA
My “wise mind” choice (thanks Marsha!). Close to family, great clinical education (highlights include psychotherapy training and cultural psych curriculum), opportunities to work with the underserved, sunshine+foodie/craft beer culture+diverse and integrated city, rentals in hip parts of town affordable on a resident’s salary (plus very lucrative moonlighting, meaning we could potentially buy a cute bungalow on a tree-lined street by the end of residency), happy and active residents (bike trails, lakes and rivers for recreation nearby), no in-house overnight call including off-service (some home pager call, and some holidays and weekend days). No-premium HMO health coverage for self and all dependents. Plus, I’ve always wanted a Tahoe Epic pass.

2. Maine Medical Center — Portland, ME
If my family was on the east coast this would be my “wise mind” choice. Portland is amazing and affordable, if snowy. I have a dream of living in the West End and being walking distance to MMC and the harbor with all its great restaurants. Completely humane, reasonable, schedule all four years (Yes! Even intern year!), with full-day didactics on psych rotations. However, it’s not so light that you’re going home at 3pm and not seeing enough patients— residents describe just feeling like a standard working professional. A lot of the residents and attendings seem to be from institutions with big-name training programs (MGH, Yale, Columbia), who decided they were done with the rat-race that is NE academia, so there is a current of intellectual curiosity and love of teaching that runs through the place despite its laid-back approach. A lot of emphasis on psychotherapy education.

3. UCLA- NPI — Los Angeles, CA
This is the program I would choose if I were going into academics, or was younger and could fully take advantage of the whole “work hard, play hard” aspect of LA without being so wary of being low on time and money. So many opportunities! So shiny! I felt like the emoji with the heart eyes my whole interview day. Plus, my “gut feeling” was that I really enjoyed eating lunch outside in December. Like all the California programs, it had lucrative moonlighting opportunities, and they actually give you 1+ days a week unscheduled in your outpatient years to be able to moonlight. Benefits were unparalleled.

4. Yale — New Haven, CT
This program was on the top of my list before I started interviewing, because it looks great on paper (salary/benefits/amazing curriculum/happy residents), but I had a migraine on interview day, so my “gut feeling” was basically just nausea. Plus, it was cold.

5. MGH (combined child/adult) — Boston, MA
I did my away rotation here. It was INCREDIBLE. Best educational experience of my life. I loved working hard at MGH because it felt worth it within the culture of excellence. Plus, everyone was so nice. I did get the impression that it was a slightly more stressful program than average, and that work stress plus driving stress plus the financial stress of living in Boston and trying to start a family far from my own, didn’t feel very “wise mind” to me. But for the right person, this program would be amazing.

6. Columbia — New York City, NY
With the exception of the stressful medicine months, there is nothing I would change about this program. It seemed perfect. The residents were full of positive, change-making, energy and clearly loved working with each other. Husband does not want to live in New York City, and it seems like it would be a pain to have kids in Manhattan, though plenty of the residents manage it.

7. MGH (general) — Boston, MA

8. UCLA-Harbor — Los Angeles, CA
I have this fantasy of living in Redondo beach and commuting in to my own sweet little outpatient office in less than two years from now. Residents seemed happy and competent. Plus, my husband wasn’t so sure about any of the locations lower in the list.

9. WPIC/UPMC (combined child/adult) — Pittsburgh, PA
I don’t know how this program got so low on the list. Seemed like a top-notch program in an affordable, enjoyable city. I thought the child fellowship PD was amazing— I basically want to be her when I grow up.

10. MUSC — Charleston, SC
I am still having regular daydreams about living in Charleston. Would not be at all sad to land here.

11. UCLA- NPI/Harbor track — Los Angeles, CA

12. WPIC/UPMC (general) — Pittsburgh, PA

13. UCR— Riverside, CA
Probably best work-life balance of any residency program in the country. Huge emphasis on education. If you want to serve the Inland Empire, definitely check this place out.

13. Utah (general) — Salt Lake City, UT
Seemed like a great program. There were some changes instituted a couple of years that resulted in some disgruntled residents but this has all been resolved— they are now back to full-day didactics on Wednesdays, their preferred PD and a super-reasonable call schedule. I think it would be amazing to live somewhere between the hospital and Park City (they are about 35 minutes from each other), although anywhere in SLC you would have quick access to enjoy the world-class dining and skiing.

14. Michigan — Ann Arbor, MI
How did this program get so low on the list?? I really liked it! Ann Arbor seemed like a wonderful place to live and raise a family, great benefits, hospitals were gorgeous, leadership/PC/residents were lovely.

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

Any thoughts on the Upstate NY programs? SUNY Buffalo, Rochester, SUNY Upstate, and Albany? Any of these stand out or should I rank based on preferred location

 

[okokok]

Top: Northwestern, HSS, Brown
Middle: UIC, Rush, Loyola, Henry Ford (most confused about the order of these)
Bottom: SLU, Indiana, Vanderbilt

From the descriptions you wrote, this sounds exactly like what your rank list should be. (Maybe switch Brown and HSS, or maybe I'm reading too much into your descriptions.) Good luck!

 

[okokok]

Albert Einstein vs Hofstra - loved both, but of course don't meet my COL consideration; other thoughts?

I only interviewed at Hofstra out of those you mentioned, but I loved Hofstra. The area didn't seem too crazy expensive (especially for being close to the city) and they do have subsidized housing, which seems like a huge help.

 

[okokok]

Cambridge Health Alliance: saying I loved this program would be an understatement. Wonderful interview day, warm residents, strong psychodynamic therapy integrated into training, sincere mission statement with community psychiatry/integrated care. The downside is location relative to my hometown in NY (I'm very close with my family/want to see my sister's kids grow up).

Zucker Hillside: also had a wonderful experience here; a program I can easily see myself flourishing within; warm residents, solid psychodynamic opportunities if interested, strong medical student education, strong college mental health affiliations, easy path to NYC fellowships, extremely close to my hometown. The downside would be that I feel a closer "pull" to CHA.

I think this is a difficult decision--program vs family. How far is the commute from CHA to your hometown? I think if it's reasonable to make the trip once or twice a month, you should go with CHA, since that's what your gut is telling you to do. (I didn't interview at CHA but loved Zucker.)

 

[okokok]

That's what I thought. I was considering doing a second look at a program where I did an audition just to show interest but I don't want to pay for it if 1) there's nothing new for me learn, 2) it won't significantly impact me on the ROL. I feel like I learned the ins and outs of the program during my time there so I wouldn't gain much. I think doing an audition there plus a LOI would be sufficient for showing interest.

I think it'd be strange to do a second look at a place you did an audition at, to be honest. A second look, to me, means you were either 1. unsure about the place or 2. want to show the area to a significant other (in which case I don't really see the point in bringing them to the program itself). It seems like you would have had time to do either during a month-long rotation there.

 

[Coupd'Cat]

Can someone speak on their decisions to rank the separate Mt Sinai programs as such? I'm having trouble understanding the differences because I feel like the resources available are relatively comparable. I'm worried because there's mumblings about concern over the "stability" of the Beth Israel program. Thoughts?

From what I've heard, non-Psychiatry specialties have been kind of been shut down/moved uptown to the main Sinai hospital over the past couple years. But, Psychiatry itself is settling in and expanding if anything at BI. They're constructing a giant outpatient psychiatry building or something-rather and pulling some ECT folks over from the main Sinai hospital.

 

[Annoymous4life]

Baystate vs Mather:
Although it is relatively new, Baystate stands out to me. It's at an established teaching institution and I personally left with a favorable impression. PD was very energetic and the faculty I met with seemed accomplished and friendly.

Mather is another new program but the administration seemed less experienced than Baystate. Beautiful hospital though.

thanks!

 

[DrSatan]

Hi everyone. Looking for some input on my rank list.

Important factors:
1. Location
2. Clinical experience, psychotherapy training, & research opportunities
3. Prestige
4. Call/night float

ROL:
1. Northwestern
2. Butler/Brown
3. University of Chicago
4. Brigham & Women's/Harvard
5. UIC
6. Wash U
7. Rush

Post-match update: lol

 

[deepsouthpsych]

Of the two programs I know a bit about:

Hopkins: In my limited by direct experience, the 'translatability' issue is a real one - I've met graduates who are clearly smart and competent, but stylistic outliers. I think if you can find a job after that lets you run your own show you will probably be fine, but fitting into most systems might require some adjustment. I'm sure you will have the required skills to work anywhere but you will need to be tolerant of a shift in approach.

MGH: Boston is expensive but you can find a way to make it less expensive. Obviously a terrific program, the residents there are great, the faculty is famous and engaged, and of those you listed it will offer a significantly richer fellowship experience in my opinion.

Thank you!

 

[Wonton Soup]

Quick PSA that if you are applying to WPIC's child&adolescent track in addition to the general track, make sure to include this NRMP program code as well: 1652400C1. It's not listed on the ERAS website but if you go the WPIC residency page under residency training-->child&adolescent program it shows up on there.

 

[molecularmimicry]

Since I see a lot of people on the boards applying to Northwestern and it doesn't post its call schedule on its website, I wanted to share it with y'all because I know lifestyle is a factor for many of you:

"There are three types of call we have both here and at the VA:
1) Short call (3 hours)- 5-8 pm, you cover the emergency department psychiatry consults, any leftover consults from consult service, and any acute medical issues or new admissions on the inpatient psych unit (this helps bridge the gap between the day team signing out at 5 pm and nightfloat coming on at 8 pm)
2) Call (12 hours)- Usually 8 am-8 pm on Saturday or Sunday, or Sat 8 pm-Sun 8 am overnight, you cover the emergency department psychiatry consults, new consults from the medical floors and follow-ups, and acute medical issues on the inpatient psych unit
3) Nightfloat (12 hour shifts)- 8 pm-8 am, you do basically what you'd do on call, but from Sun night thru Thursday or Friday night continuously, for 1-2 weeks at a time

At Northwestern, we also have a separate resident do weekend rounding, where they come in on the mornings on both Saturdays and Sundays, and round on half the patients (so up to 14)- this helps lessen the load for the on-call resident.

For Lurie and your children's rotation, the rotation is in flux, but as of now residents rarely, if ever get called in at all because the child psych residents cover the call; seeing a patient on-call is much more of an educational experience than a clinical need.

Call frequency- so generally, call goes like this during the four years:

PGY1 June-PGY1 Dec- you're on medicine, neuro, emergency, or pediatrics, so you follow their call schedule. No overnights
PGY1 Jan-PGY2 Dec- generally, about 1 short call a week, and 3/4 weekends you are either weekend rounder or have a call shift (at least one golden weekend a month)
PGY2 Jan-PGY3 Dec- HUGE dropoff- about 1 short call every other month, 2 weekend calls a month
PGY3 Jan-onwards- essentially done with call, you'll be on backup for a week every 1-2 months until PGY4 Dec

During PGY2, you'll have 6-7 weeks of nightfloat total. At some point during PGY1 Jan-PGY2 Dec you'll also have 1-2 weeks of VA nightfloat.

So, as you can see, we frontload our call heavily. Also, both at the VA and at NMH we have training calls, so at least the first 5-6 calls you'll have more senior residents directly working with you and supervising you as you become more and more comfortable."

 

[doggums]

.

 

[Anonymous165]

I posted my whole list previously, but I wanted to get a focused opinion on my top 5, in alphabetical order:

Duke
Emory
UNC
USC
WashU

How would you rank these? Is Duke really a grind in terms of hours/workload, or has it recently optimized its work-life balance? Does Emory overwork its residents too?

Also..
UAB vs UVA: which do you think is generally a stronger program? more reasonable workload? better moonlighting opportunities?

Thank you!

 

[Doc1401]

I posted my whole list previously, but I wanted to get a focused opinion on my top 5, in alphabetical order:

Duke
Emory
UNC
USC
WashU

How would you rank these? Is Duke really a grind in terms of hours/workload, or has it recently optimized its work-life balance? Does Emory overwork its residents too?

Also..
UAB vs UVA: which do you think is generally a stronger program? more reasonable workload? better moonlighting opportunities?

Thank you!

Emory
WashU
Duke

Emory has all the fellowships available, Duke does not. Atlanta>Durham. Emory Brain Health Center, ketamine, neuromodulation...research opportunities

 

[UTsksk]

Struggling between UTHSCSA and A&M Temple as my 1 and 2.

San Antonio: Always wanted to live there. Program seemed like it had plenty of great opportunities at VA, university, and chance to work at SAMMC which is the military hospital. Bigger class size and seems alot of people have families. Call is the one negative I saw where the call schedule is heavier than others which might affect my family. Thought everyone was great there.

Temple: This place really surprised me. I really enjoyed the interview day. Seems like a good program with mainly everything in one hospital and then VA. I think the biggest thing I noticed was how family friendly this program is and how alot of the residents moonlight.

It pretty much comes down to I really like san antonio, but will have more time for my family in temple.

 

[nighthawk2551]

Anyone have any thoughts on University of Minnesota vs Iowa vs Madison?

 

[starling7]

Hey folks,
I do not wish to digress from the ultra-important topic of rank lists, but does anyone recall Wake Forest's call schedule? Location makes this program a contender for me and my impression was that the residents were happy and significantly involved with making the program stronger. Their call schedule used to be quite brutal in the past, but I know they addressed this during the power point. I can't seem to find where I jotted this down. Can anyone help with this?

 

[Monocles]

Things that are pro for me: I like a strong PD with a vision, someone I could look up to as a mentor. I like programs that value psychotherapy highly and will train me well in that regard. I like programs that provide me with good opportunities for access to an underserved or difficult population. Working in/at a VA is not a negative (my dad is a vietnam vet struggling with PTSD, I feel attracted to getting at least some experience working with that population), but the amount could make it a positive or negative. A few programs had "advocacy" rotations, and I found that to feel like a pro. Relative "prestige" is a small (very small) pro for me. I am very interested in CAP, pros to be had in relation to that ... but also kind of interested in addiction. That remains to be decided.

Programs in my top tier (ie liked the most) not in ranked order (because I haven't sorted that out) -

Northwestern - fantastic amazing PD, loved the residents, love Chicago, great opportunities in CAP. Light association with a VA (not too much, maybe too little? But I suppose that's what electives are for). Had the sense I'd work a little harder at this program (which is ok). Enjoyed interviews with faculty, had some interesting conversations.
Boston VA / Harvard South Shore - loved the PD, seemed very invested in residents succeeding as leaders. Lots of VA - slight negative for being so much. Love the Boston area. Liked the residents, everybody seemed cool. Liked the faculty I spoke with.
Brown - another fantastic PD, lots of research opportunities, definitely very strong CAP opportunities. Providence would mean a substantial commute to Boston for my husband, but he'd survive... and I found Providence quite charming. Great faculty.

Hi,

Wanted to comment on your top 3 --

Commute between Boston and Providence is absolutely NOT a problem. In addition to what the other posters have said about commuter rail, another option is to live somewhere in between the two cities such as Braintree, Quincy, etc for cheaper rent and a 30 min commute for each.

That being said --

1) Would absolutely rank Brown as #1 if I were you. I interviewed there 2 cycles ago and I am kicking myself for not ranking them higher now. Excellent training and people seem happy. Especially if you're interested in CAP would be a great place to be.

2) On NW vs HSS -- not sure much about NW but HSS tends to focus more on addiction and PTSD. If you LOVE veterans, trauma, or addiction disorders and don't mind working with them for the majority of your training, then it's probably a solid #2 on your list. Otherwise go with NW #2. HSS is spread out over 10(?) different hospital sites or something ridiculous this year so you'll have a fairly lengthy commute to at least half of your rotations (up to 1-2 hours each way).

 

[Monocles]

Albert Einstein
vs. Boston University
vs. Maryland/SP
BU has a more ideal location and I loved the PD. Just don't know how it fits into the Boston Psychiatry landscape.

A short oversimplified primer of Boston psych programs and generalised patient populations:

MGH/McLean -- wealthy, medically complex
Brigham -- high functioning, medically complex
Beth Israel -- lost of college students, young professionals
Cambridge -- community psych, immigrants, social advocacy, therapy oriented
Harvard South Shore -- VA based, heavy on addictions/PTSD
Tufts -- lower SE, located in chinatown, therapy oriented
BU -- lower SE, heavy addictions, strong biological

Again, very generalised to a fault but gives you a broad idea. Since you're looking at BU/BMC it is probably known as THE place for addictions in boston since it's located in one of the poorest parts of downtown Boston (aka "Methadone Mile" where there are tons of clinics, recovery programs, etc)

 

[Monocles]

Having trouble arranging the top of my rank list. End goal is child & adolescent and would love a program with a strong fellowship attached as SO would very much appreciate being able to stay in one spot for at least the next 5-6yrs. Other than that- no preference on location. We can make anywhere home.

1) Hopkins: Loved the diversity of clinical exposure with multiple in-patient units and multiple sub-specialist outpatient clinics that you're exposed to. Peds prelim spot. Residents were incredibly warm and intelligent. Attracts residents who aren't afraid of medicine or medical complexity in patients. Perspectives emphasized but residents stated they found it a helpful schema for thinking about patients and didn't feel like it was an overbearing manifesto. They work hard but I didn't meet anyone who seemed excessively tired, overwhelmed or struggling to balance family/life outside the hospital. Cons: Weaker consult-liaison experience? Lack of flexibility in schedule- no electives until PGY-4 and would not get those if I fast-tracked. Training translates to outside of the Hopkins system?

2) MGH- Child track: Diverse range of experiences. 6 mo peds intern year. Automatic acceptance into child fellowship. Loved learning about clinical evaluation center rotation at McLean. It sounds look they teach residents to be very thoughtful and purposeful in evaluating patients. Able to find experts in anything under the sun you might be interested in. Residents are an awesome group of intelligent, ambitious, but super nice (so nice!!) people. Cons: Lots of adolescent exposure. Not sure about robustness of school-age and younger children in fellowship years. Boston is super expensive.

Would recommend ranking MGH above Hopkins, especially if you are interested in child psych and want to stay in the same place for next 5-6 years. Their child program is top notch and McLean is excellent. Boston may be expensive but generally boston programs have competitive resident salaries (60k+ everywhere I think).

 

[Monocles]

As a candidate thinking of ranking WashU very high what's wrong with St. Louis?? =( =( I've heard some people really don't like the city but I've enjoyed my weekend trips when I've been there a couple of times... but obviously I'm not super familiar with the city.

St Louis itself is fine. The majority of the bad rep come from the surrounding areas (ex: east st louis, ferguson, etc) where the crimes/recent race riots occur. Barnes Jewish has some surrounding areas that are a bit dangerous to travel at night... I know friends there who secretly carry firearms to the hospital because they are afraid of being mugged on their way home from call.

 

[Monocles]

While my ROL is certified, I'm still not 100% satisfied with my current line-up and would love some objective opinions on my #1 vs. #2 (aka heart vs. head). I'm looking for solid CAP fellowship placement (likely NYC-focused), strong psychodynamic therapy, college mental health, community psychiatry, medical student/resident education opportunities to name a few.

Cambridge Health Alliance: saying I loved this program would be an understatement. Wonderful interview day, warm residents, strong psychodynamic therapy integrated into training, sincere mission statement with community psychiatry/integrated care. The downside is location relative to my hometown in NY (I'm very close with my family/want to see my sister's kids grow up).

Zucker Hillside: also had a wonderful experience here; a program I can easily see myself flourishing within; warm residents, solid psychodynamic opportunities if interested, strong medical student education, strong college mental health affiliations, easy path to NYC fellowships, extremely close to my hometown. The downside would be that I feel a closer "pull" to CHA.

Dude go to CHA... they have an absolutely phenomenal reputation for treating their residents well and having a "rainbows and unicorn" type of feel. One of my attendings (at a different hospital) once joked "every psych resident in every boston program hates residency... except CHA".

 

[munchausen]

Hi everyone. Looking for some input on my rank list.

Important factors:
1. Location:
-- I am trying to land in Chicago (SO, family, & friends).
-- Would be excellent support; moving elsewhere may result in a continued long-distance relationship that needs to progress.
-- SO could live in Chicago, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Madison, Minneapolis, & Boston.

2. Overall training experience:
-- Looking for a strong psychotherapy program & research opportunities.
-- Psychotherapy is very important to me.
-- I want research opportunities to see if I am still truly interested in conducting research.
-- Elective opportunities & flexibility because I suspect that I will want to develop my own niche in psychiatry, or at least be able to dabble in everything to see what I really love.
-- I'm interested in a bunch of fellowships & will likely complete one.
-- I would definitely like a program with a strong neurological/neuropsychiatric training/opportunities.

3. Prestige:
-- Somewhat important to me, but less so than the others.
-- Name recognition is cool; I have never had any name recognition throughout my academic career, so this is just my narcissism speaking/bragging rights.

4. Call/night float:
-- Not a make or break, but I would like a better lifestyle if all else is equal.
-- Could see learning better through both more time for studying & through high volume of patients, so maybe that makes less call better for me?

Mostly trying to figure out 2-5ish on my list, plus maybe some input on the lower half if anyone has any. Any input on relative strengths of the Chicago programs (NU, UChi, Rush, UIC, & Loyola) would be very helpful. Rush vs. UIC would be very helpful; they look like very similar programs to me. And where does U Chi fit in here? Loyola is not a great fit for me.

Also, any input on whether I should rank "better" non-Chicago programs over Chicago programs would be extremely helpful. How much would I "sacrifice" by matching at UIC, Rush, U Chicago, Northwestern, or any of my other programs really over Brown or Harvard (obviously assuming if I'd even match there)? I'm very strongly considering ranking all the Chicago programs (minus Loyola) before Brown & Harvard, but don't want to sacrifice training for location. If you thought that location was truly that much more important, then I'd even consider ranking Milwaukee above these "prestigious" programs. Should I drop U Chicago below Brown/Harvard, or move Brown/Harvard below UIC/Rush?

ROL:
1. Northwestern: Psychotherapy, research, & unique electives. Prime location in Chicago.

2. University of Chicago: Psychotherapy seemed strong. Fewer research opportunities. Liked the residents a lot. Not the ideal location in Chicago & driving to the multiple inpatient psych wards will be annoying. Losing their PD isn't a big deal to me. Great call schedule.

3. Butler/Brown: Strong psychotherapy & research. Liked Providence, but it would require long distance + eventual travel to Boston for my SO though. Otherwise, this would be my #1 program.

4. Brigham & Women's/Harvard: Psychotherapy, research, & unique electives. Call is rough. Really not sure I'd want to live in Boston, which could lead to me keeping Brown high & moving Harvard below Chicago schools. SO would eventually be able to move to Boston.

5/6. Rush: Strong clinical experience. Loved the residents. Elective opportunities & call/night are drawbacks.

5/6. University of IL Chicago: Diverse, high patient acuity. Liked the residents. Call/night schedule are rough. Lost 2 of their neuropsychiatrists.

7. Barnes-Jewish/Wash U: Really liked the program minus its very limited psychodynamic training (which one could get training in if really, really gung-ho). Loved the residents. SO doesn't really want to live in St. Louis. Call is great.

8. University of Wisconsin - Madison: Probably a good balance of psychotherapy & research opportunities. Loved the psychodynamic faculty I met. Madison is just meh to me & my SO, but we could definitely survive & be happy there. My SO prefers Milwaukee; I would prefer Milwaukee too if I thought the program was as strong.

9. Indiana University: Psychotherapy seems weaker. Loved the residents. Excellent lifestyle. SO really does not want to/cannot live here. Call is excellent. Would be much higher if it could be.

10. Mayo Clinic: Program was great. SO really does not want to/cannot live here. Would be higher if it could be.

11. Medical College of Wisconsin - Milwaukee: Strong psychotherapy. Weaker research. SO & I would be very comfortable in Milwaukee. More worried about clinical training & elective opportunities. Only so low on my list because I perceive it as relatively too weak. Would it be worth putting it above Mayo, Indiana, Madison, & (maybe) WashU purely on location?

12. Loyola: Too much VA. Weak psychotherapy. Could get involved in research.

I may come back & ask about the bottom of my list at a later time. Still trying to weigh how much more location is than any other factor (aka should I move Milwaukee up). I still don't think I'd touch Loyola, but other advice would be appreciated.

From what I've heard, the Boston-Providence commute is supposed to be very doable and your significant other would be able to live there eventually. If thats your favorite program why are you not ranking it first? Seems like you would be happiest there and it would allow your relationship to progress so best of both worlds

 

[rdk322]

St Louis itself is fine. The majority of the bad rep come from the surrounding areas (ex: east st louis, ferguson, etc) where the crimes/recent race riots occur. Barnes Jewish has some surrounding areas that are a bit dangerous to travel at night... I know friends there who secretly carry firearms to the hospital because they are afraid of being mugged on their way home from call.

Oh geez. Are they more of the rule or the exception that they carry guns to their work? Do they not have a secure lot or is it more of the commuting route even when driving? Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Monocles]

Oh geez. Are they more of the rule or the exception that they carry guns to their work? Do they not have a secure lot or is it more of the commuting route even when driving? Thanks for the heads up!

I think they are more of the exception, also they take public transit late at night so that also exposes them to the more unsavory bits of the town as opposed to driving.

 

[Monocles]

My issue is that I've been long distance since medical school & moving out to Providence will likely result in 1-2 years more of separation with other complicating factors involved in that. Plus my friends & family are in Chicago & I plan to likely practice there. So location is really the reason I rank Northwestern #1; that being said, I did love Northwestern too.

Ah completely reasonable! gl and hope you get chicago!!