Official 2018 Rank Order Lists

[Monocles]

Any advice as to whether it's worth ranking my other Chicago programs over Brown based purely on location? No worries if not.

I think your current rank list looks pretty good. Nw and UC over Brown is reasonable since family is such a huge factor for you. Ultimately at the end of the day you'll get decent psych training anywhere -- and a lot of it depends on how much work you put into residency personally. Training is also physically and emotionally challenging so having the support of family and close friends makes a world of difference. Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with most of the chicago programs so I am not able to be very helpful in that regard ^_^;

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[jwl934]

Hi all! Would appreciate your thoughts on some of the California programs. My priorities are a humane residency with good work/life balance (definitely want to work hard and learn, but don't want to be burnt out by the end of residency), focus on underserved/county patients, solid psychotherapy training, and being close to family (socal>norcal).

Favorite programs:
USC- Loved the residents and that I'd get to train at LA County. Based on overall vibe this was my favorite. Psychotherapy training was not emphasized, but L.A. has psychoanalytic institutes.
San Mateo-This is my ideal program structure - love that outpatient starts second year and the humanistic focus, not sure about being in a class with only 4 residents, unsure how bad it would be to commute all over the bay area.
UC Riverside -The faculty here were warm, enthusiastic, and seemed to really support their residents' interests. Like the focus on the underserved, not sure about Riverside and wondering if it would be possible to commute to LA.
UC Irvine- Again, loved the people I met here. Psychotherapy was emphasized more than other places.

Others:
UC Davis- Loved everything about this program, especially the focus on psychodynamic psychiatry and cultural psychiatry. Just not sure about moving to Sacramento.
UCSD- Seems like this program has a great reputation, but the residents seemed overworked and burnt out. Also heard that over the course of the 4 years, you never get to schedule your vacation days (not sure if this is true?)
UNM- Loved the program and the rural psychiatry track. Albuquerque would be a big change but I really like New Mexico.
U AZ- Residents I met here seemed genuinely happy, lots of young graduates in program leadership. Full day of didactics and strong psychotherapy training.
Utah- Seems overall great, low call schedule, beautiful location.

As you can see, I generally liked all the programs I interviewed at, just not sure how to rank. Any insights would be helpful!

 

[tellme_areyoufree]

Hi,

Wanted to comment on your top 3 --

Commute between Boston and Providence is absolutely NOT a problem. In addition to what the other posters have said about commuter rail, another option is to live somewhere in between the two cities such as Braintree, Quincy, etc for cheaper rent and a 30 min commute for each.

That being said --

1) Would absolutely rank Brown as #1 if I were you. I interviewed there 2 cycles ago and I am kicking myself for not ranking them higher now. Excellent training and people seem happy. Especially if you're interested in CAP would be a great place to be.

2) On NW vs HSS -- not sure much about NW but HSS tends to focus more on addiction and PTSD. If you LOVE veterans, trauma, or addiction disorders and don't mind working with them for the majority of your training, then it's probably a solid #2 on your list. Otherwise go with NW #2. HSS is spread out over 10(?) different hospital sites or something ridiculous this year so you'll have a fairly lengthy commute to at least half of your rotations (up to 1-2 hours each way).

Very grateful for the feedback many have given on my top 3, it has given me plenty to think about. I told myself I would be open to being convinced to make changes, so I'm glad I've been given more to consider.

I do sort of think I'll land beneath my top 3 somewhere, so would love to hear if anyone has any thoughts about ranking the Chicago programs more in the middle of my list- Loyola, Rush, UIC in particular. They all feel fairly equal to me in different ways, maybe Rush pulling ahead of UIC or Loyola (maybe) but seemed like they might also have a rough schedule.

 

[medhead1990]

Hi all! Would appreciate your thoughts on some of the California programs. My priorities are a humane residency with good work/life balance (definitely want to work hard and learn, but don't want to be burnt out by the end of residency), focus on underserved/county patients, solid psychotherapy training, and being close to family (socal>norcal).

Favorite programs:
USC- Loved the residents and that I'd get to train at LA County. Based on overall vibe this was my favorite. Psychotherapy training was not emphasized, but L.A. has psychoanalytic institutes.
San Mateo-This is my ideal program structure - love that outpatient starts second year and the humanistic focus, not sure about being in a class with only 4 residents, unsure how bad it would be to commute all over the bay area.
UC Riverside -The faculty here were warm, enthusiastic, and seemed to really support their residents' interests. Like the focus on the underserved, not sure about Riverside and wondering if it would be possible to commute to LA.
UC Irvine- Again, loved the people I met here. Psychotherapy was emphasized more than other places.

Others:
UC Davis- Loved everything about this program, especially the focus on psychodynamic psychiatry and cultural psychiatry. Just not sure about moving to Sacramento.
UCSD- Seems like this program has a great reputation, but the residents seemed overworked and burnt out. Also heard that over the course of the 4 years, you never get to schedule your vacation days (not sure if this is true?)
UNM- Loved the program and the rural psychiatry track. Albuquerque would be a big change but I really like New Mexico.
U AZ- Residents I met here seemed genuinely happy, lots of young graduates in program leadership. Full day of didactics and strong psychotherapy training.
Utah- Seems overall great, low call schedule, beautiful location.

As you can see, I generally liked all the programs I interviewed at, just not sure how to rank. Any insights would be helpful!

I got a great vibe from davis with work life balance fwiw. However i would love to see what others think. My wife teases's me that I walk away from all my interviews with rose colored glasses.

 

[Evidence Based]

Dude go to CHA... they have an absolutely phenomenal reputation for treating their residents well and having a "rainbows and unicorn" type of feel. One of my attendings (at a different hospital) once joked "every psych resident in every boston program hates residency... except CHA".

Sssshhhh don't tell anyone I don't want everyone to know how great CHA is!!!
jk we can both rank it #1 and be co-residents next year.

 

[psychiatryhopeful]

Have other applicants been sending out LOIs? If so, have you guys been receiving responses? I'm a bit disheartened because I carefully crafted a detailed and personal LOI to my #1. Sent it out this Monday. Not a peep since. Hoping it's not a sign of disinterest from them.

same!

 

[FlowRate]

A short oversimplified primer of Boston psych programs and generalised patient populations:

MGH/McLean -- wealthy, medically complex
Brigham -- high functioning, medically complex
Beth Israel -- lost of college students, young professionals
Cambridge -- community psych, immigrants, social advocacy, therapy oriented
Harvard South Shore -- VA based, heavy on addictions/PTSD
Tufts -- lower SE, located in chinatown, therapy oriented
BU -- lower SE, heavy addictions, strong biological

Again, very generalised to a fault but gives you a broad idea. Since you're looking at BU/BMC it is probably known as THE place for addictions in boston since it's located in one of the poorest parts of downtown Boston (aka "Methadone Mile" where there are tons of clinics, recovery programs, etc)

I don't disagree overall, just wanted to note that BI is probably actually the sickest + most medically ill as far as inpatients go. (One of only a few inpatient units located in a general medical hospital and specifically contracted to take complex DMH cases.) That said, none of these units are "med psych" like I saw on the interview trail (at Utah? UTSW? I forget.)

 

[michiganpsych08]

I got a great vibe from davis with work life balance fwiw. However i would love to see what others think. My wife teases's me that I walk away from all my interviews with rose colored glasses.

My hubby told me the same thing! I literally came back from each interview like we’re moving to x city haha he just started to ignore me after a while

 

[tomphn]

Sssshhhh don't tell anyone I don't want everyone to know how great CHA is!!!
jk we can both rank it #1 and be co-residents next year.

I guess we'll all have to be co-residents

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

A short oversimplified primer of Boston psych programs and generalised patient populations:

MGH/McLean -- wealthy, medically complex
Brigham -- high functioning, medically complex
Beth Israel -- lost of college students, young professionals
Cambridge -- community psych, immigrants, social advocacy, therapy oriented
Harvard South Shore -- VA based, heavy on addictions/PTSD
Tufts -- lower SE, located in chinatown, therapy oriented
BU -- lower SE, heavy addictions, strong biological

Again, very generalised to a fault but gives you a broad idea. Since you're looking at BU/BMC it is probably known as THE place for addictions in boston since it's located in one of the poorest parts of downtown Boston (aka "Methadone Mile" where there are tons of clinics, recovery programs, etc)

Thank you so much for your insight as someone practicing in the area! I really appreciate it. I'm strongly considering Boston but am less familiar with the programs. Wish we could do a broad overview list for every city/state like this

I like BU/BMC a lot but the residents did not seemed thrilled about their program as many others I met have.

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

Anyone able to comment on why Dartmouth residents transfer out? I meant to ask on interview day, but forgot. I'd assume location is a big factor, but any issues with the program itself?

One at least was location. This is according to a friend of a friend of a friend so how reliable this is.. (sorry I can't be more help)

 

[raisinbrain]

Having trouble arranging the top of my rank list. End goal is child & adolescent and would love a program with a strong fellowship attached as SO would very much appreciate being able to stay in one spot for at least the next 5-6yrs. Other than that- no preference on location. We can make anywhere home.

1) Hopkins: Loved the diversity of clinical exposure with multiple in-patient units and multiple sub-specialist outpatient clinics that you're exposed to. Peds prelim spot. Residents were incredibly warm and intelligent. Attracts residents who aren't afraid of medicine or medical complexity in patients. Perspectives emphasized but residents stated they found it a helpful schema for thinking about patients and didn't feel like it was an overbearing manifesto. They work hard but I didn't meet anyone who seemed excessively tired, overwhelmed or struggling to balance family/life outside the hospital. Cons: Weaker consult-liaison experience? Lack of flexibility in schedule- no electives until PGY-4 and would not get those if I fast-tracked. Training translates to outside of the Hopkins system?

2) MGH- Child track: Diverse range of experiences. 6 mo peds intern year. Automatic acceptance into child fellowship. Loved learning about clinical evaluation center rotation at McLean. It sounds look they teach residents to be very thoughtful and purposeful in evaluating patients. Able to find experts in anything under the sun you might be interested in. Residents are an awesome group of intelligent, ambitious, but super nice (so nice!!) people. Cons: Lots of adolescent exposure. Not sure about robustness of school-age and younger children in fellowship years. Boston is super expensive.

3) U Pitt/WPIC: Child-track w/ up to 3mo peds intern year. Diverse range of clinical experiences w/ multiple in-patient units and outpatient clinic options. Tons of elective time. Want to help you become an expert in your areas of interest and tailor the program to you as much as possible outside of core requirements. Felt like a playground for psychiatry in terms of offerings and experts available. Cons: Met some residents who I loved and felt like I would fit in with. Met a handful that were off-putting. Pittsburgh weather- gray and rainy all the time?

4) UNC: Residents who were intelligent, friendly, clearly loved their work and the program. Love the structure of this program w/ output pgy-2 and continue seeing patients in the afternoon when go back to in-patient PGY-3. Multiple in-patient units. Exposure to the state hospital. We love the Chapel Hill/Raleigh-Durham area. Cons: No option for pediatric experience which I really want.

Each one changes position on my list everyday and I have no idea how to arrange these 1-4. Any thoughts or remarks would be super helpful!

Based on your goals, I think its smart to keep UNC off your top if you really want peds exposure, which I really think is helpful to have some of to have more experience with healthy kids and families and normal and stressed development. MGH child track is excellent, and I loved WPIC as well with all of the training, clinical, and research opportunities. Can't comment on Hopkins, though it's a bummer you'd lose elective time. Does their child fellowship have reasonable elective time, or ability to design your own experiences?

 

[raisinbrain]

Anyone have any thoughts on University of Minnesota vs Iowa vs Madison?

What are you looking for in a program? Twin cities is a fun place to live, as is Madison. Iowa city isn't bad if you like college towns, but it's safe and low COL. Don't think psychotherapy is a particularly strong focus at these. Not a ton of research going on at MN, but their residents seemed to really get along well.

 

[okokok]

Any thoughts on University of Michigan vs University of Chicago? I'm flip flopping between them daily and would really love to hear any opinions. My future goals include CL at a smallish/ruralish hospital somewhere. I think I liked the UChi program slightly better, but liked the UMich location slightly better.

Also, did anyone happen to write down Michigan's call schedule? They verbally ran through it but it was a bit confusing and now all I remember is residents saying it was a lot.

Thanks, everyone.

 

[Psychiatrilific]

Looking for thoughts/comments on my list - especially from current or former residents at these places if you are out there in the SDN ether! My main interests are child/adolescent, psychotherapy, and medical education. Also, I'm hoping to work in academics long term. Finally, my spouse and I are used to a low cost of living and looking for a place to continue that trend.

1) Yale - felt very at home here, residents/faculty were a great combination of interesting intellectuals and also warm/friendly people. Training seems strong across the boards with lots of opportunities to explore interests and lots of accessible mentors to help. The combined adult/child integrated program is too research heavy for me, but the child fellowship is very well renowned clinically too. Does anyone know if they lean more towards children vs. adolescents or vice versa? New Haven has its critics, but personally I enjoy the city and wouldn't feel as though I was "missing out" by being in a smaller place that is lacking in the culture of some other cities.
2) UPMC - WPIC was amazing, residents were friendly, and faculty were very committed to residency training. Pittsburgh is a nice size of city with a strong culture full of friendly people. The child track is very appealing here and the child PD was especially inspiring. The psychotherapy training seemed to be slightly lacking, anyone have any thoughts on that?
3) Vanderbilt - the residents were some of the friendliest I've met on the trail and the rotations/facilities all seemed great. I loved meeting the folks associated with the child training and found the child track very appealing. The short 15 min interviews with the PD/aPD were off-putting, but those were the only blips on the day. Nashville, if you enjoy Southern culture, is such a fun place that I'd enjoy exploring for 5 years.
4) UTSW - was surprised by the geographic diversity of the residents and the strength of the training. The hospitals are diverse and well-equipped and the training seems rigorous. The residents were all very kind and happy and seem to love Dallas. Also, the PD is an incredible psychoanalyst who makes you want to hug him instead of shake his hand when you leave the room.
5) Columbia NYP - might have been the most impressive interview that I went on. PD, aPDs, and residents were all interesting, inspiring, and doing something amazing with their time. The training seemed very rigorous and I'm sure I would leave a great psychiatrist. It isn't number 1 because it is in NYC and the child training doesn't seem to quite parallel the training in adult/community.
6) Penn - wonderful hospital system with a diverse patient population and an amazing array of friendly, well-known faculty. I think I would enjoy Philly and the residents. The child training is not very strong during the adult residency since CHOP runs the fellowship separately from the psychiatry department.

I also will rank (and enjoyed) UCLA, UCSD, UNC, Cornell, U Wash...and a couple of places that I didn't enjoy, but that I won't mention here.

 

[Alpha_Waves]

So I don't mind hard work but I'm running out of ways to stratify programs. For interviewees and really for anyone else who can comment, which programs seem the most chill in terms of hours, call, info and vibe from residents etc. I would really appreciate it. I don't want one that is too relaxed but if one seems overworked and less educational then that wouldn't be ideal. I pretty much like all of these programs.

Ohio State
Cincinnati
Case UH
Cleveland Clinic
Pitt
Indiana
U of Chicago
Louisville
Rush
UIC
Loyola
Penn State

 

[molecularmimicry]

So I don't mind hard work but I'm running out of ways to stratify programs. For interviewees and really for anyone else who can comment, which programs seem the most chill in terms of hours, call, info and vibe from residents etc. I would really appreciate it. I don't want one that is too relaxed but if one seems overworked and less educational then that wouldn't be ideal. I pretty much like all of these programs.

Ohio State
Cincinnati
Case UH
Cleveland Clinic
Pitt
Indiana
U of Chicago
Louisville
Rush
UIC
Loyola
Penn State

I can comment on UChicago and UIC. UChicago is more chill than your average psych program. On interview day, they said that for PGY1-2, call was q10 days. After PGY2, call is OPTIONAL and if you do call as a PGY3-4, you get paid moonlighting money. UIC is heavier than your average psych program. If I recall, you have both 1x weekday call and 1x weekend call most weeks as a PGY1.

 

[Monocles]

I can comment on UChicago and UIC. UChicago is more chill than your average psych program. On interview day, they said that for PGY1-2, call was q10 days. After PGY2, call is OPTIONAL and if you do call as a PGY3-4, you get paid moonlighting money. UIC is heavier than your average psych program. If I recall, you have both 1x weekday call and 1x weekend call most weeks as a PGY1.

This is beautiful.

 

[raeka]

Any thoughts on University of Michigan vs University of Chicago? I'm flip flopping between them daily and would really love to hear any opinions. My future goals include CL at a smallish/ruralish hospital somewhere. I think I liked the UChi program slightly better, but liked the UMich location slightly better.

Also, did anyone happen to write down Michigan's call schedule? They verbally ran through it but it was a bit confusing and now all I remember is residents saying it was a lot.

Thanks, everyone.

These are very different programs! I personally preferred Michigan. How do you feel about training in an urban environment vs college town? How do you feel about hauling a** all over Chicago to different sites, not having any inpatient units on the U of C campus, and no VA? U of C seems a little more psychotherapy oriented. They were also at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of call schedule as well, with U of C probably having the cushiest schedule that I encountered (although I am also interested in hearing more specific details about Michigan's call schedule if anyone wrote it down!). U of C did have my favorite group of residents of the interview season; they seemed very cool and very happy. Cost of living is actually probably comparable depending on where you decide to live in Chicago. Overall I got the sense that opportunities are just more robust at Michigan which is ultimately why I decided to rank it higher.

 

[deepsouthpsych]

Based on your goals, I think its smart to keep UNC off your top if you really want peds exposure, which I really think is helpful to have some of to have more experience with healthy kids and families and normal and stressed development. MGH child track is excellent, and I loved WPIC as well with all of the training, clinical, and research opportunities. Can't comment on Hopkins, though it's a bummer you'd lose elective time. Does their child fellowship have reasonable elective time, or ability to design your own experiences?

So funny enough- after writing my original post Hopkins sent out a letter stating that starting in July 2018 they'll have several tracks available for interested candidates- Research, Child, Public Mental Health, & Clinician Educator- and each will have dedicated time in all 4 yrs. Pgy-1 1mo, PGY-2 & 3- 2mo, PGY-4 up tp 7 months (but it mostly a year of elective time anyway). So it looks like they're trying to build in a bit more flexibility. As far as child fellowship- 1 day of elective time for the course of the second year.

So many hard choices haha. But I think the conversation is helping me move UNC further down and likely move MGH-combined to #1... Although my list seems to fluctuate daily!

 

[Alpha_Waves]

I can comment on UChicago and UIC. UChicago is more chill than your average psych program. On interview day, they said that for PGY1-2, call was q10 days. After PGY2, call is OPTIONAL and if you do call as a PGY3-4, you get paid moonlighting money. UIC is heavier than your average psych program. If I recall, you have both 1x weekday call and 1x weekend call most weeks as a PGY1.

Thanks! Yeah this was my impression too. I was curious because I also noticed that some programs might have more or less call but how busy the call usually was made a bigger difference than the amount of days. However, this was my impression too with Rush and UIC generally having a tougher workload than UChicago. The UChicago residents definitely felt that they were having a highly educational experience though, based on my impression.

 

[Wounded Healer]

I am having very hard times deciding my ROL. I loved every program I have been to. I have no restrictions when it comes to geography. I would love to be in an academic institution where I can teach and do research. I like sleep med, CL, neuropsych, mood disorders, psychotherapy. Friendly working environment is also very important to me. I loved UHCMC the best. But the rest is blurry to me. I appreciate any comments, thanks in advance!

Southern Illinois Uni
Penn state
Central michigan uni
UHCMC
Maimonides medical center
Rutgers Njms
SUNY Downstate

 

[24blue8]

Hi all! Would appreciate your thoughts on some of the California programs. My priorities are a humane residency with good work/life balance (definitely want to work hard and learn, but don't want to be burnt out by the end of residency), focus on underserved/county patients, solid psychotherapy training, and being close to family (socal>norcal).

Favorite programs:
USC- Loved the residents and that I'd get to train at LA County. Based on overall vibe this was my favorite. Psychotherapy training was not emphasized, but L.A. has psychoanalytic institutes.
San Mateo-This is my ideal program structure - love that outpatient starts second year and the humanistic focus, not sure about being in a class with only 4 residents, unsure how bad it would be to commute all over the bay area.
UC Riverside -The faculty here were warm, enthusiastic, and seemed to really support their residents' interests. Like the focus on the underserved, not sure about Riverside and wondering if it would be possible to commute to LA.
UC Irvine- Again, loved the people I met here. Psychotherapy was emphasized more than other places.

Others:
UC Davis- Loved everything about this program, especially the focus on psychodynamic psychiatry and cultural psychiatry. Just not sure about moving to Sacramento.
UCSD- Seems like this program has a great reputation, but the residents seemed overworked and burnt out. Also heard that over the course of the 4 years, you never get to schedule your vacation days (not sure if this is true?)
UNM- Loved the program and the rural psychiatry track. Albuquerque would be a big change but I really like New Mexico.
U AZ- Residents I met here seemed genuinely happy, lots of young graduates in program leadership. Full day of didactics and strong psychotherapy training.
Utah- Seems overall great, low call schedule, beautiful location.

As you can see, I generally liked all the programs I interviewed at, just not sure how to rank. Any insights would be helpful!

If work balance is a priority then I'd imagine UCR would be higher than USC. USC works hard and they're upfront about it.

I don't think it would be realistic to commute to Riverside from LA unless you are willing to spend 3.5-4hrs in your car everyday. At least not your first year or two. I discussed this extensively during my interview there and we even drew out a map with the PD. We all concluded it wouldn't work hah! Friendly bunch though.

 

[Stagg737]

Not really a ROL question, more about LOIs. I thought as part of the match programs and applicants weren't supposed to contact each other and state what our rank lists would look like. Or am I misinterpreting/misremembering that part?

I ask because I did an audition rotation at my #1 choice and they were extremely positive about wanting me then. I wanted to send a "hey, remember me" e-mail, but also want to make sure that telling them they're my top choice isn't violating some aspect of the match agreement.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Not really a ROL question, more about LOIs. I thought as part of the match programs and applicants weren't supposed to contact each other and state what our rank lists would look like. Or am I misinterpreting/misremembering that part?

I ask because I did an audition rotation at my #1 choice and they were extremely positive about wanting me then. I wanted to send a "hey, remember me" e-mail, but also want to make sure that telling them they're my top choice isn't violating some aspect of the match agreement.

You can tell them whatever you want.
They can tell you whatever they want.
No one can ask for that information.
No one can attempt to elicit a promise or arrangement to rank the other in a specific way.

None of this makes any particular difference.

 

[Coupd'Cat]

I am having very hard times deciding my ROL. I loved every program I have been to. I have no restrictions when it comes to geography. I would love to be in an academic institution where I can teach and do research. I like sleep med, CL, neuropsych, mood disorders, psychotherapy. Friendly working environment is also very important to me. I loved UHCMC the best. But the rest is blurry to me. I appreciate any comments, thanks in advance!

Southern Illinois Uni
Penn state
Central michigan uni
UHCMC
Maimonides medical center
Rutgers Njms
SUNY Downstate

What did you love best about UHCMC? Perhaps that's a hint.

 

[Wounded Healer]

What did you love best about UHCMC? Perhaps that's a hint.

Didactics and curriculum are pretty solid; they have all of the accredited fellowships plus four non-accredited fellowships available. There are lots of opportunities to teach and do research; they have a wide variety of rotations available to hone one's skills according to their interest. They have leadership in medical education track which is designed to educate people who decide to pursue a career in Academic Medicine. I was told the VA hospital is huge, has a big inpatient unit. They have a neuropsychiatry unit there, as well as ECT, TMS opportunities. It just fits my interests!

I didn't get a vibe that they'd rank me high, though But it is almost impossible to get a glimpse, everyone seems sweet and kind. Hard to predict anything.

 

[DareGreatly]

Hey everyone!

I have made up my mind on the top couple and bottom couple of my list, but I am still sorting out the middle. If anyone has some insight into these programs, I'd be grateful! No particular interests. Might do a fellowship. I want a place that has strong, diverse clinical training as well as research opportunities. I love all of their locations, so that is not a factor for me.

- U Maryland/Sheppard Pratt
- Vanderbilt
- U Colorado
- UVA
- MUSC

Thank you for your insight!

 

[Evidence Based]

My RL is pretty much done. Some of the middle ones may flip around a bit, but I don't anticipate anything important changing. As you may suspect, I have strong geographic preferences/constraints due to family factors. I also prioritized programs with good community mental health and addiction exposure.

1) Cambridge Health Alliance
2) Beth Israel Deaconess
3) Brown/Butler
4) Brigham
5) Boston Medical Center
6) Yale
7) UMASS
8) Tufts
9) Dartmouth

 

[WingedOx]

I can comment on UChicago and UIC. UChicago is more chill than your average psych program. On interview day, they said that for PGY1-2, call was q10 days. After PGY2, call is OPTIONAL and if you do call as a PGY3-4, you get paid moonlighting money. UIC is heavier than your average psych program. If I recall, you have both 1x weekday call and 1x weekend call most weeks as a PGY1.

UIC is known for heavy call load during intern year, but it's also a very front-loaded program, even moreso than Northwestern, who were mentioned upthread. Call eases off quite dramatically during PG-2, and most of the UIC residents/graduates from there I know seemed to like it that way to get it out of the way early.

 

[syvian.]

Didactics and curriculum are pretty solid; they have all of the accredited fellowships plus four non-accredited fellowships available. There are lots of opportunities to teach and do research; they have a wide variety of rotations available to hone one's skills according to their interest. They have leadership in medical education track which is designed to educate people who decide to pursue a career in Academic Medicine. I was told the VA hospital is huge, has a big inpatient unit. They have a neuropsychiatry unit there, as well as ECT, TMS opportunities. It just fits my interests!

I didn't get a vibe that they'd rank me high, though But it is almost impossible to get a glimpse, everyone seems sweet and kind. Hard to predict anything.

I really liked UHCMC too! But I don't think they were very interested in me, lol. 3/4 of my interviews were with residents and the other was with an assistant professor, so I didn't even get to meet one-on-one with the PD. This is the only place I interviewed at where I didn't get to interview with the PD and, honestly, I don't know if it's some sort of sign.

 

[raeka]

Feel solid on my top 4 and bottom 4. Really uncertain about the middle, mostly due to location. Priorities for me = well-rounded clinical experiences and good opportunities in addiction psych. Decent cost of living and work-life balance are a plus but not a deal-breaker for the right place--I'm not afraid of working hard, but would prefer to avoid programs that work residents to the bone without much educational value.


Penn
Yale
Emory
University of Colorado
UIC
Michigan
Wash U
Iowa
MUSC
Montefiore
Vanderbilt
University of Louisville
University of Chicago
Case Western/UH


UIC ended up being a wild card for me and I am feeling uncertain about ranking it above programs like Michigan and Wash U that may open more doors for me or provide more rigorous clinical training. Certain elements of the curriculum at UIC were very appealing and I loved all the faculty I met with, but I'm not sure about living in Chicago. I keep flipping back and forth on Michigan vs Wash U too.

Also feeling uncertain about how to rank Iowa, MUSC and Montefiore. Not sure how they compare with respect to reputation for graduating quality clinicians. MUSC definitely has the best opportunities as far as addiction, but I'm not a huge fan of Charleston. Obviously Iowa and Montefiore are extremely different but I liked them both equally for very different reasons. Trying to weigh the boredom of Iowa vs the intensity of living in the Bronx.

 

[Wounded Healer]

I really liked UHCMC too! But I don't think they were very interested in me, lol. 3/4 of my interviews were with residents and the other was with an assistant professor, so I didn't even get to meet one-on-one with the PD. This is the only place I interviewed at where I didn't get to interview with the PD and, honestly, I don't know if it's some sort of sign.

I highly doubt that is has a predictive value. I don’t think of any program wasting their time and sources for someone they are not interested. They extend you an interview because they are interested. In one program, I didn’t interview with the PD, as well. Were you the only person who didn’t interview with the PD?

 

[eskittletalopram]

If work balance is a priority then I'd imagine UCR would be higher than USC. USC works hard and they're upfront about it.

I don't think it would be realistic to commute to Riverside from LA unless you are willing to spend 3.5-4hrs in your car everyday. At least not your first year or two. I discussed this extensively during my interview there and we even drew out a map with the PD. We all concluded it wouldn't work hah! Friendly bunch though.

The commute between Riverside and DTLA is only 60-75 mins since you'd be travelling against traffic (vice versa you could easily be hitting 2-3 hrs each way). A lot of faculty live in Orange County and commute to the IE since pay for psychiatry at county is off the chain and again you'd be commuting against traffic.

 

[eskittletalopram]

Need some input please!

What I'm looking for: I'm a single, gay male looking to live in a very gay friendly, outdoor-focused city that has good food. I love hiking and the ocean. I don't want a car and prefer to bike/public transit. I also prefer to not live with roommates. Current interest in child and addiction fellowships so would value opportunities created by name and location. Would love to see a wide variety of patients in a variety of settings.

Top (no order):
-UCSD: loved the area, semi-affordable city (compared to Boston and the Bay), happy residents, caring PD, personal offices in 3rd year.
-San Mateo: LOVED the residents, their vibes, and outlook. Amazing PD and awesome chair. In love with SF. Awesome work-life balance. Connections with Stanford and UCSF (community psych fellowship 4th year). Very high COL, although residents didn't appear to have a problem finding a space.
-Brigham: Great training/psychotherapy. Excellent medicine exposure 1st year. Wide variety of patients. Great PD who supports the residents. Endless fellowship opportunities. The winter isn't a huge deal to me.

Mid/Bottom (no order)
-Tulane: good exposure to a sick patient population. Low COL. Beautiful new hospitals. Would most likely need a car.
-UCLA-Harbor: happy, but heavily worked residents. Low pay:COL for LA. Would need a car.
-UCI: good variety of patients. didn't get to interact with too many residents, but the ones I did meet were generally happy with the new PD. Would need to live in Long Beach for a gay community. Would need a car.
-UCR: no presence of gay community. hot summers-fall. Great people. Great structure. Awesome work-life balance. Not so much of a variety of patients (no real middle/upper class exposure). Excellent moonlighting opportunities. Would need a car.

 

[tellme_areyoufree]

Need some input please!

What I'm looking for: I'm a single, gay male looking to live in a very gay friendly, outdoor-focused city that has good food. I love hiking and the ocean. I don't want a car and prefer to bike/public transit. I also prefer to not live with roommates. Current interest in child and addiction fellowships so would value opportunities created by name and location. Would love to see a wide variety of patients in a variety of settings.

Top (no order):
-UCSD: loved the area, semi-affordable city (compared to Boston and the Bay), happy residents, caring PD, personal offices in 3rd year.
-San Mateo: LOVED the residents, their vibes, and outlook. Amazing PD and awesome chair. In love with SF. Awesome work-life balance. Connections with Stanford and UCSF (community psych fellowship 4th year). Very high COL, although residents didn't appear to have a problem finding a space.
-Brigham: Great training/psychotherapy. Excellent medicine exposure 1st year. Wide variety of patients. Great PD who supports the residents. Endless fellowship opportunities. The winter isn't a huge deal to me.

Mid/Bottom (no order)
-Tulane: good exposure to a sick patient population. Low COL. Beautiful new hospitals. Would most likely need a car.
-UCLA-Harbor: happy, but heavily worked residents. Low pay:COL for LA. Would need a car.
-UCI: good variety of patients. didn't get to interact with too many residents, but the ones I did meet were generally happy with the new PD. Would need to live in Long Beach for a gay community. Would need a car.
-UCR: no presence of gay community. hot summers-fall. Great people. Great structure. Awesome work-life balance. Not so much of a variety of patients (no real middle/upper class exposure). Excellent moonlighting opportunities. Would need a car.

Hey gurl.

I was so sad I had to cancel my interview at San Mateo. I'm glad to hear it's as awesome as I thought it would be. Can't get much better for gay life than SF.

What were moonlighting opportunities like at San Mateo? If cost of living is the only issue, that could soon be remedied by a little moonlighting if you can push through lower spending for a couple years.

 

[PsychAddict2018]

I know some of you have spoken about the Providence-Boston commute, and that it's doable.

Any insights though, on the Worcester-Boston daily commute? Anyone from New England or with previous experience?

TIA

 

[SourceOfDenial]

I know some of you have spoken about the Providence-Boston commute, and that it's doable.

Any insights though, on the Worcester-Boston daily commute? Anyone from New England or with previous experience?

TIA

I know people talk about the providence to Boston commute being doable, but that or the Worcester-Boston sounds terrible. Travelling in and around Boston is bad enough with traffic/bus/T delays I can't imagine tacking on an extra hour each way. Maybe if I had some finance job that was 9ish to 430ish. In medicine? No thanks.

Is it doable? Sure. It's probably even doable to commute from NYC to Boston if you really wanted to. Will it make going to work a nightmare? I'd imagine so.

It seems like every time someone recommends the commute or says it's doable it's always someone saying their spouse does it, or someone knows someone who has a cousin who does it. I've met one resident at one of the Boston hospitals who did it for a year, and it didn't sound enjoyable.

 

[Monocles]

I know some of you have spoken about the Providence-Boston commute, and that it's doable.

Any insights though, on the Worcester-Boston daily commute? Anyone from New England or with previous experience?

TIA

Worcester is in western Mass and the commute sucks. I absolutely would not recommend this because even though it's in mass, the distance/traffic is MUCH worse than the Boston-Providence commute.

You can either drive or take the commuter rail.. both of which will cost you about $10 in gas/ticketing and 1.5 hour of your life... each way.

Would not recommend.

 

[Evidence Based]

I know some of you have spoken about the Providence-Boston commute, and that it's doable.

Any insights though, on the Worcester-Boston daily commute? Anyone from New England or with previous experience?
TIA

Worcester is in western Mass and the commute sucks. I absolutely would not recommend this because even though it's in mass, the distance/traffic is MUCH worse than the Boston-Providence commute.
You can either drive or take the commuter rail.. both of which will cost you about $10 in gas/ticketing and 1.5 hour of your life... each way.
Would not recommend.

I'm a little confused at reactions above- the Worcester/Boston commute is really not appreciably different from the Providence/Boston commute. The Worcester train ride is maybe 10 minutes longer, but there are express trains that get you in in about an hour. The driving distance is the same, and Providence is actually be a little farther away (and the traffic on 93 is TERRIBLE if you're driving in that way).

To clarify- would you or your partner be doing the commute? And in which direction? If you're going to be the one living in Worcester/Providence and working there, then it's your partner's commute that you should be worrying about (aka it's not medicine hours). If it's your commute, I would not recommend living in either one of those cities and commuting to Boston for hospital hours.

tl;dr if you're living in one of those cities and your partner is commuting to Boston, they're really not that different. I've spent large parts of my life in the greater Boston area and would be happy to answer more questions. Living halfway between Boston/Worcester and Boston/Providence and splitting the commute would essentially be equivalent as well.

 

[Coupd'Cat]

Didactics and curriculum are pretty solid; they have all of the accredited fellowships plus four non-accredited fellowships available. There are lots of opportunities to teach and do research; they have a wide variety of rotations available to hone one's skills according to their interest. They have leadership in medical education track which is designed to educate people who decide to pursue a career in Academic Medicine. I was told the VA hospital is huge, has a big inpatient unit. They have a neuropsychiatry unit there, as well as ECT, TMS opportunities. It just fits my interests!

I didn't get a vibe that they'd rank me high, though But it is almost impossible to get a glimpse, everyone seems sweet and kind. Hard to predict anything.

All good things! Overwrought advice, but if you truly feel like they are a good fit--rank them highly, regardless of vibes in relation to how high they might rank you. You never know Better to rank based on what you do know, which is how you feel.

My RL is pretty much done. Some of the middle ones may flip around a bit, but I don't anticipate anything important changing. As you may suspect, I have strong geographic preferences/constraints due to family factors. I also prioritized programs with good community mental health and addiction exposure.

1) Cambridge Health Alliance
2) Beth Israel Deaconess
3) Brown/Butler
4) Brigham
5) Boston Medical Center
6) Yale
7) UMASS
8) Tufts
9) Dartmouth

Haha I have the opposite goal: actively trying to avoid Boston/Cambridge, but sad that I have to put CHA lower for that reason. It's a wonderful program.

 

[Evidence Based]

Haha I have the opposite goal: actively trying to avoid Boston/Cambridge, but sad that I have to put CHA lower for that reason. It's a wonderful program.

We all make mistakes. () Good luck we're almost done with this madness!!

 

[Coupd'Cat]

We all make mistakes. () Good luck we're almost done with this madness!!

Haha indeed. My partner and I are wusses for the cold & the windy streets drive us bonkers. It makes me strangely happy to know CHA exists, though. Who knows! It's on my radar for the job search, way in the future.

 

[MSBI Psych]

From what I gathered, it is no longer guaranteed, though last year all the interns who applied for it still got it.

I am a current psychiatry resident. While housing is not "guaranteed," all current PGY-1s that applied to housing were offered housing. Given that there is no decrease of housing planned for the near future, it is very likely but not "guaranteed" that every incoming resident will be offered housing. I will say, that not every one took the housing options for a variety of reasons, including wanting to be closer to the hospital, wanting to live in a studio or 1 bedroom (vs shared apartment), or just choosing something more to their liking. I do not live in housing, I live in StuyTown, as do multiple other residents in the program and in the hospital. There are some perks offered as an employee of the hospital, and I intent on staying in StuyTown while a resident at BI.

 

[tomphn]

My list is done with exclusion of my bottom half and one other

1. CHA
2. San Mateo
3. Umass
4. Sinai BI
5. Maryland

I’m curious on people’s thoughts for differences between San Mateo and CHA? Besides location, they seem like similar programs on different shores—but San Mateo doesn’t seem to get as much love as CHA does.

 

[splik]

My list is done with exclusion of my bottom half

1. CHA
2. San Mateo
3. Umass
4. Sinai BI
5. Maryland

I’m curious on people’s thoughts for differences between San Mateo and CHA? Besides location, they seem like similar programs on different shores—but San Mateo doesn’t seem to get as much love as CHA does.

well the weather is much better in san mateo! san mateo is a smaller program. both provide good training in psychodynamic psychotherapy and are community oriented programs. CHA is harvard-affiliated, which means you have the opportunity to do things like attend classes at HLS, HSPH, or do the masters in bioethics programs. They also have some arrangements so it is possible to do TMS training at BI, and psycho-oncology at dana farber etc. san mateo allows you to "fast track" into the public psychiatry fellowship at UCSF as a PGY-4. CHA still has call, while san mateo does not require call and you get paid ?$175/hr to take overnight call/moonlight in their PES which is nice. CHA is a great program in many ways, and there are rainbows because it's so gay but there aren't any unicorns sh*tting cupcakes - the program is way over-idealized in sdn which is not a good thing. like any other program it has its problems and weaknesses but it is special in terms of its emphasis on community oriented care and the strong psychotherapy emphasis that it has. i think you would get pretty decent training at either place. the real question is where would you want to live?

 

[Rynkay]

Would love to hear some input regarding programs in the middle of my list. Things I'm considering are 1) excellent training, able to tackle anything after training and becoming a great clinician, 2) close to family in Houston, 3) supportive program, and 4) child psych exposure, as I am considering fast tracking/fellowship in CAP. Thinking UTSW, UTMB near top, more fuzzy regarding Emory, Tulane, and JPS.

 

[tthhrrooaawwaayy]

I really loved UMass but SO would not be able to find a job in his field in Worcester. Discouraging to see posts regarding how bad the Worcester-Boston commute is. I've lived in areas where within 1 hour of a city is still within the commutable/suburb range. Is it lack of reliable train service?

Also, any thoughts on Stony Brook? Does anyone remember the call schedule? It seemed relatively heavy (most 6 day weeks first years)

 

[Evidence Based]

I really loved UMass but SO would not be able to find a job in his field in Worcester. Discouraging to see posts regarding how bad the Worcester-Boston commute is. I've lived in areas where within 1 hour of a city is still within the commutable/suburb range. Is it lack of reliable train service?

Also, any thoughts on Stony Brook? Does anyone remember the call schedule? It seemed relatively heavy (most 6 day weeks first years)

The trains are decent, depends on the weather. Schedule is here: Framingham/Worcester Line < Commuter Rail < Schedules & Maps < MBTA - Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority.
If you live somewhere in between Worcester and Boston it would probably be better than living in Worcester proper.

 

[Wounded Healer]

I am having very hard times deciding my ROL. I loved every program I have been to. I have no restrictions when it comes to geography. I would love to be in an academic institution where I can teach and do research. I like sleep med, CL, neuropsych, mood disorders, psychotherapy. Friendly working environment is also very important to me. I loved UHCMC the best. But the rest is blurry to me. I appreciate any comments, thanks in advance!

Southern Illinois Uni
Penn state
Central michigan uni
UHCMC
Maimonides medical center
Rutgers Njms
SUNY Downstate

Hello,

Although I haven't decided for sure, I made a list. I loved Penn State which is a strong residency program, but the location makes me think. I can't decide where to put Maimonides. Above SUNY or below? I felt like Maimonides has more supportive environment than SUNY, but it is community-based. Although SUNY is university-based, they spend most of their times in Kings County Hospital. I am also not sure where to put Penn State, as well. I appreciate any input!

1. UHCMC/Case
2. Rutgers NJMS
3/4: SUNY Downstate- Maimonides Medical Center
5. Penn State University
6. Southern Illinois University
7. Central Michigan University