**Official 2024 OMFS PASS/Interviews/Match/Non-Match**

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Is post match over?
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Hello, everyone, I am a current OMS intern. The University of the Pacific has two 1-year non-categorical internship positions open for the 2024-2025 academic year for anyone interested.

The experiences and duties of the interns currently include, but continuously expand to enrich the program experiences:

University of the Pacific School of Dentistry
- Dentoalveolar surgery, with a strong emphasis on full mouth extractions, pre-prosthetic surgeries, E&B’s, 3rd molar with all types of impactions
- Benign and malignant pathology via weekly oral pathology clinic, steady referral base, with the interns doing a large majority of the biopsies
- Implantology with several OMS and prosthodontists, with a current expansion to All-on-X and zygomatic implants
- Sedations in newly renovated and expanding ambulatory Surgery Center (starting IV’s, pushing meds, perioperative management, becoming comfortable as an operator-anesthetist, intubation cases with our dental anesthesiologist)
- Teaching rotating dental students in between your columns of patients

California Pacific Medical Center
- Responsible for rounding and managing inpatients at 3 campuses within San Francisco
- Trauma, infections, orthognathic surgery, benign and malignant pathology (both ablative and reconstruction), TMJ, nerve reconstruction
- The large majority of cases, you are first-assist, otherwise second-assist

Didactics:
- History of Physical Examination course
- Service meetings weekly
- Journal clubs monthly
- Orthognathic seminar monthly
- Implant conference weekly
- Other full scope OMS lectures
- Publishing requirement

Pay is a non-GME funded stipend equivalent to a PGY-1 stipend.

This internship is a relatively new program, with both interns this year getting 8+ interviews and matching to their #1 ranked programs. There is a strong emphasis on mentorship and preparing the interns for the match cycle, running the service smoothly independent of residents, and becoming future superstar residents.

Personal remarks: After externing at 6 programs and keeping in touch with many other interns and residents, I am extremely happy with the experiences I have been getting and for what is left to come. The internship scope is very broad, has a remarkable balance between clinical and didactic learning, and I have truly enjoyed working with all my attendings and cointern who I now consider family.

For more information, visit the program website:
dental.pacific.edu

Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery Internship

The University of the Pacific, Arthur A. Dugoni School of Dentistry Department of Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery offers a one-year internship position for dentists who are interested in gaining an additional year of education and experience in oral and maxillofacial surgery beyond that which is...
dental.pacific.edu dental.pacific.edu
 
I am taking CBSE Feb 4th. Does anyone know when the results could be released? after one week? 2? 3?
 
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Program matched at: West Coast 4 yr
NBME scores: 69 EPC (74, 211)
Class Ranking/Size: top 1/3
Externship(s)/where: 3-2 at home program, 1 at local 4 yr
Research: Masters Thesis in unrelated field, no pubs
Extracurriculars: Research in trigeminal neuralgia, president of dental school oral surgery club, non-categorical internship, student government, Division 1 varsity athlete
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews attended/Programs Ranked: 45/27/18/18

Had a 64 (old score) and applied right out of school-3 interviews and no match. Retook CBSE during my noncat and got a 69 EPC-Definitely the most difficult month of my life studying for CBSE and being a brand new intern. Had interviews at 7 x 6 yr programs-applied mostly to 4's. Didn't want to have to do a 2nd noncat so applied broadly. Biggest piece of advice-DONT RETAKE CBSE DURING YOUR NONCAT that sucked so bad.
 
Hi everyone,

University of Rochester has two non-categorical positions available. Previous GPR experience or eligibility for NYS dental licensure is required. Please email our Residency Coordinator Lisa Lord ([email protected]) and our Program Director Dr. Dina Amin ([email protected]) for more information.

URMC
 
AssuredOx7 said:
Program Matched: South 6 yr
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2024
International Student (yes/no): No
NBME scores: 69 EPC (74, 211)
Class Ranking/Size: ~40/100
Externship(s)/where: 6 externships
Research: 2 projects, presentation at conference, no publications
Extracurriculars: Lots of community service, clubs, OS involvement
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews attended/Programs Ranked: 55/25/14/14

I read these forums going through dental school and was always discouraged seeing people at top of their class with extremely high CBSE scores. Given my stats and lower class rank I think SDN would have told me I would have to grind it out through a non-cat. Because of that I applied very broadly but ended up receiving a lot more interview invites than I expected. I hope that this can be a source of hope for that dental student who may not be at the top of their class and wants to do oral surgery to hold on to the dream and have relentless pursuit. Work hard on the CBSE. I did more externships and spent a lot of time with my home program and developed good relationships with faculty to get good LORs. Keep at it, be kind and humble, and you’ll find a way!
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Can I pm you?
 
Dada123 said:
Can someone explain why some programs end up with unmatched spots and does it say anything about them?
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I think it ultimately comes down to the how applicants/programs are ranked, and for the applicants, those rankings are influenced by how they perceive the program.

I can’t speak for all programs but there seems to be more transparency, coming from residents, of how residencies truly function compared to what’s presented on paper. I know LSU NO and Buffalo both gave presentations reporting procedure numbers that are completely false, rotations no longer in existence, etc. These programs are becoming fellowship heavy with department chairs who seem to only care about making a name for themselves, at the expense of resident training/education. There are many programs like this, I’m sure we’ve all heard about BU. And believe me, that’s just the tip of the iceberg, you won’t know what a program is truly like until you’re a resident.

So, when applicants realize these things, of course they’re going to rank these programs low or not at all.
 
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Pullem said:
I think it ultimately comes down to the how applicants/programs are ranked, and for the applicants, those rankings are influenced by how they perceive the program.

I can’t speak for all programs but there seems to be more transparency, coming from residents, of how residencies truly function compared to what’s presented on paper. I know LSU NO and Buffalo both gave presentations reporting procedure numbers that are completely false, rotations no longer in existence, etc. These programs are becoming fellowship heavy with department chairs who seem to only care about making a name for themselves, at the expense of resident training/education. There are many programs like this, I’m sure we’ve all heard about BU. And believe me, that’s just the tip of the iceberg, you won’t know what a program is truly like until you’re a resident.

So, when applicants realize these things, of course they’re going to rank these programs low or not at all.
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Thanks for the detailed reply.
 
Pullem said:
I think it ultimately comes down to the how applicants/programs are ranked, and for the applicants, those rankings are influenced by how they perceive the program.

I can’t speak for all programs but there seems to be more transparency, coming from residents, of how residencies truly function compared to what’s presented on paper. I know LSU NO and Buffalo both gave presentations reporting procedure numbers that are completely false, rotations no longer in existence, etc. These programs are becoming fellowship heavy with department chairs who seem to only care about making a name for themselves, at the expense of resident training/education. There are many programs like this, I’m sure we’ve all heard about BU. And believe me, that’s just the tip of the iceberg, you won’t know what a program is truly like until you’re a resident.

So, when applicants realize these things, of course they’re going to rank these programs low or not at all.
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I was at both these interviews, the case numbers were false?
 
I wanted to chime in and give my 2 cents on why so many programs went unmatched this past application cycle. A lot of programs tend to always interview the same applicant pool. I consistently ran into the same people at every interview that I went to. Applicants on average from the interview trail were attending 12-15 interviews. I even met a few people that were fortunate enough to make it to almost 20 interviews. I don’t think there should be any regulation on how many interviews you attend because at the end of the day it’s your future against everyone else’s and you legitimately can not afford to go unmatched. Program directors need to diversify their candidates a little bit more or hold an additional interview day(s). They’re a lot of people doing one, two or even three non-cat years with stats that might just not be as impressive on paper. Some of those non-cats may not get as many interviews as the average person but these applicants are highly competitive and personally have a huge leg up over a dental student with a high CBSE and class rank. Also, some of these programs have a historic reputation of being malignant, so for future applicants be very cautious when you apply or do an externship to get a better feel if you are truly interested in a program on the list.

I personally applied to about half of the programs that went unmatched but did not receive an interview. My stats were pretty average but I did a non-cat, worked my tail off and matched to my #1 choice 6 year program. I usually interview pretty well because I practice alot with sample questions and did mock interviews with people close to me to make sure my answers are crisp and not just throwing all my thoughts out at someone. I got good letters of recommendations and my attending stuck their necks out for me. The oral surgery community is extremely small and majority of attendings know each other personally. A lot of programs reached out to my attendings to get more information on me and they would let me know. I highly recommend to anyone out there that went unmatched or has average stats to do a non-cat year, it completely change you life. I was told by many people that with my stats, it would extremely difficult to match. This message is to anyone out there that was struggling like me throughout dental school thinking they would never be good enough to do oral surgery despite having a huge passion for the profession. Stick with it, work hard, score as high as you can on CBSE and I promise your match day will come!

Program matched at: Southeastern 6 year
NBME scores: High 60’s EPC
Class Ranking/Size: Middle 1/2
Externship(s)/where: 3
Research: few years and published
Extracurriculars: Non-cat, research, involved in some clubs in dental school but nothing major
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews attended/Programs Ranked: 60/9/9/9
 
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Program matched at: 4 year Midwest
International Student (yes/no): No
CBSE: 60 EPC
Class Ranking/Size: middle/140
Externship(s)/where: 4 all across the US
Research: 1 poster
Non-categorical: 1 year
Extracurriculars: Many
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews attended/Programs Ranked: 40/4/4/4

Matched on match day, just posting late
 
Screenshot 2024-01-31 at 9.01.24 AM.png


Greetings,

The University of Michigan School of Dentistry is accepting applications for a 1 year full-time paid Clinical Instructor Position starting on July 1st, 2024 through Jun 30th, 2025.

You will have the opportunity to join many cases throughout the week as flaps, traumas and orthognathic during evenings and weekends. You will also be exposed to a very strong academic formation, joying our residents on many weekly conferences, lectures and hands on with the OMS faculty.

Responsibilities and assignments include half day at University of Michigan Medicine in the clinics and operating rooms. Four and a half days exposed to our high volume dento-alveolar clinic performing third molars, grafts, implants, and pre-prosthetic procedures. You will also teach third and fourth year dental students in the didactic foundation and clinical application of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery procedures. You will monitor and evaluate students’ competencies in extractions and medical risk assessments, guide them in their techniques, and ensure accurate patient healthcare charting is complete.

You will be afforded the university’s usual and customary fringe benefits.

Requirements and qualifications: DDS


Please reply with your CV and 3 letters of recommendations to [email protected].

Interviews are being conducted this week!
 
RaveDamsey said:
Do you seriously you think you can trust dental education in the slightest after going through dental school? The best way to approach anything is to assume it is rigged and that you are being lied to until proven otherwise.
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That’s certainly a strategy. I just think the principle of saying someone is lying, when your your only evidence is “just trust me”, is pretty funny.
 
axiumgod said:
That’s certainly a strategy. I just think the principle of saying someone is lying, when your your only evidence is “just trust me”, is pretty funny.
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I agree, it just makes it look like you have something out for that program for some odd reason.
 
@axiumgod @The Kube of Kubes

I understand where you guys are coming from. It's hard to believe something without hard evidence. But also understand I'm protecting my identity. You both seem to still have that naive dental student mentality, where you believe anything a program tells you is truth.
 
Pullem said:
I think it ultimately comes down to the how applicants/programs are ranked, and for the applicants, those rankings are influenced by how they perceive the program.

I can’t speak for all programs but there seems to be more transparency, coming from residents, of how residencies truly function compared to what’s presented on paper. I know LSU NO and Buffalo both gave presentations reporting procedure numbers that are completely false, rotations no longer in existence, etc. These programs are becoming fellowship heavy with department chairs who seem to only care about making a name for themselves, at the expense of resident training/education. There are many programs like this, I’m sure we’ve all heard about BU. And believe me, that’s just the tip of the iceberg, you won’t know what a program is truly like until you’re a resident.

So, when applicants realize these things, of course they’re going to rank these programs low or not at all.
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Hi!
Can you list programs that went unmatched or let us know where to find the list?
Thanks
 
gigachadomfs said:
I wanted to chime in and give my 2 cents on why so many programs went unmatched this past application cycle. A lot of programs tend to always interview the same applicant pool. I consistently ran into the same people at every interview that I went to. Applicants on average from the interview trail were attending 12-15 interviews. I even met a few people that were fortunate enough to make it to almost 20 interviews. I don’t think there should be any regulation on how many interviews you attend because at the end of the day it’s your future against everyone else’s and you legitimately can not afford to go unmatched. Program directors need to diversify their candidates a little bit more or hold an additional interview day(s). They’re a lot of people doing one, two or even three non-cat years with stats that might just not be as impressive on paper. Some of those non-cats may not get as many interviews as the average person but these applicants are highly competitive and personally have a huge leg up over a dental student with a high CBSE and class rank. Also, some of these programs have a historic reputation of being malignant, so for future applicants be very cautious when you apply or do an externship to get a better feel if you are truly interested in a program on the list.

I personally applied to about half of the programs that went unmatched but did not receive an interview. My stats were pretty average but I did a non-cat, worked my tail off and matched to my #1 choice 6 year program. I usually interview pretty well because I practice alot with sample questions and did mock interviews with people close to me to make sure my answers are crisp and not just throwing all my thoughts out at someone. I got good letters of recommendations and my attending stuck their necks out for me. The oral surgery community is extremely small and majority of attendings know each other personally. A lot of programs reached out to my attendings to get more information on me and they would let me know. I highly recommend to anyone out there that went unmatched or has average stats to do a non-cat year, it completely change you life. I was told by many people that with my stats, it would extremely difficult to match. This message is to anyone out there that was struggling like me throughout dental school thinking they would never be good enough to do oral surgery despite having a huge passion for the profession. Stick with it, work hard, score as high as you can on CBSE and I promise your match day will come!

Program matched at: Southeastern 6 year
NBME scores: High 60’s EPC
Class Ranking/Size: Middle 1/2
Externship(s)/where: 3
Research: few years and published
Extracurriculars: Non-cat, research, involved in some clubs in dental school but nothing major
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews attended/Programs Ranked: 60/9/9/9
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Disagree that applicants should be attending 20 interviews. Waste of time and money for themselves, the programs, and other applicants that would actually attend those programs. It’s not on the programs to host more interview days- shutting everything down is very disruptive. 1-3 interview days is reasonable. Interviewing more candidates is not only a drain on everyone involved, but doesn’t solve the problem and probably would just result in the same high achievers with unlimited funds attending 30+ interviews instead of 20+. The more reasonable answer is to limit the number of interviews one can accept. Personally I turned down interviews that would be ranked lower than #13 bc its a waste of money and my time to attend, bc attending excessive interviews is irrational (based on match data), unproductive to the field overall, and I don’t feel the urge to take more than what I need at the expense of other applicants and programs. Unless of course you are a complete weirdo that cannot fake being normal for an interview. Also, you may not have received interview invites to the 6 year programs that went unmatched bc some have strict cut offs for CBSE and undergrad GPA imposed by their medical school that are so high only the top applicants of the cycle will be eligible to interview. It’s unfortunate that knowledge is not made public so people could save their money from applying.
 
On the topic of undergrad gpa cutoffs, can anyone name some of the programs they know with hard caps? Would love to apply to certain 6 years but I’m worried about my 3.3g ugpa (stats otherwise decent)
 
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JJayJoe said:
Disagree that applicants should be attending 20 interviews. Waste of time and money for themselves, the programs, and other applicants that would actually attend those programs. It’s not on the programs to host more interview days- shutting everything down is very disruptive. 1-3 interview days is reasonable. Interviewing more candidates is not only a drain on everyone involved, but doesn’t solve the problem and probably would just result in the same high achievers with unlimited funds attending 30+ interviews instead of 20+. The more reasonable answer is to limit the number of interviews one can accept. Personally I turned down interviews that would be ranked lower than #13 bc its a waste of money and my time to attend, bc attending excessive interviews is irrational (based on match data), unproductive to the field overall, and I don’t feel the urge to take more than what I need at the expense of other applicants and programs. Unless of course you are a complete weirdo that cannot fake being normal for an interview. Also, you may not have received interview invites to the 6 year programs that went unmatched bc some have strict cut offs for CBSE and undergrad GPA imposed by their medical school that are so high only the top applicants of the cycle will be eligible to interview. It’s unfortunate that knowledge is not made public so people could save their money from applying.
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Agree. I disagree with the comment above that says programs should just interview more. We have to close down our entire team each interview day. And to applicants, it’s unfair to make them pay for a flight and a hotel if they’re interviewing out of 50 people for the chance for 1 spot.
 
We want to clear up the baseless allegations regarding our program's procedure numbers.

Attached is a report generated via OMSNIC RSL for the 2022 - 2023 academic year, these numbers are consistent with what was presented at our interview day. This is the same report we send to CODA.

In 2023, our program passed CODA accreditation (approval without reporting).

As LSU residents, we are extremely proud of our program and support our leadership who continue to make positive changes.

We welcome externs to come see the surgical experience and culture we offer.

Check out our instagram: lsu_omfs
 

Attachments

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LSUOMFS said:
We want to clear up the baseless allegations regarding our program's procedure numbers.

Attached is a report generated via OMSNIC RSL for the 2022 - 2023 academic year, these numbers are consistent with what was presented at our interview day. This is the same report we send to CODA.

In 2023, our program passed CODA accreditation (approval without reporting).

As LSU residents, we are extremely proud of our program and support our leadership who continue to make positive changes.

We welcome externs to come see the surgical experience we offer.

Check out our instagram: lsu_omfs
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Of course the numbers are consistent with what was presented. However, for those of you who don't know, cases are SELF reported to OMSNIC RSL with no one really verifying these numbers on the other end. You can virtually log anything. Buffalo and LSU NO have a history for being unstable programs.

Im sure you were told to come on here to "clear things up". Why don't you clear up your current program chairs history...
 
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Condylotomy said:
On the topic of undergrad gpa cutoffs, can anyone name some of the programs they know with hard caps? Would love to apply to certain 6 years but I’m worried about my 3.3g ugpa (stats otherwise decent)
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3.0 undergrad gpa here and matched. I was told I was accepted to 3 med schools. One I actually matched to, another one from email and another by phone. If you do well on the CBSE and in dental school then trust me that enough 6 years will give you a good look.
 
Greetings!

The Department of Oral Medicine and Maxillofacial Surgery at Geisinger Health System is currently accepting applications for the preliminary internship position during the 2024-2025 academic year. The program will allow those selected individuals to become an integral member of the OMS team with exposure to the full scope of the specialty including: dentoalveolar surgery, ambulatory outpatient anesthesia, craniomaxillofacial trauma, orthognathic surgery, surgical and non-surgical management of TMD, surgical management of obstructive sleep apnea, multidisciplinary care of cleft and craniofacial patients, benign/malignant pathology and reconstructive surgery. The OMS intern will be exposed to both clinical and didactic training opportunities to further their knowledge and experience in the field. OMS interns will function at the PGY-1 level with duties including on-call activities, participation in OMS didactics, research, patient care in the outpatient clinic and operating room. OMS Interns will also participate in the care and management of complex hospitalized patients. This is an excellent opportunity for applicants to gain valuable experience and support for application in the upcoming residency application cycle. Recent OMS interns have enjoyed success in matching into desirable positions across the country.

The position will include salary support at the PGY-1 level ($65,603) and health, dental, life and disability insurance. Additional benefits include:
  • 15 vacation days and 5 relocation days (to be used for interviews or orientation)
  • Expenses and time away for paper/poster presentations at national conferences, as approved by the GME office
Applications are open to US citizens and those eligible for J-1 Visa. Please send you CV, CBSE Score, 1 letter of recommendation, and personal statement to:

Krystle Goverick, BS
Graduate Medical Education Program Administrator
(she, her, hers)
Oral & Maxillofacial Surgery Residency Program
Pediatric Dentistry Residency Program
100 N. Academy Ave.
MC 13-36
Danville, PA 17822
(570) 214-3455
[email protected]
 
Pullem said:
Of course the numbers are consistent with what was presented. However, for those of you who don't know, cases are SELF reported to OMSNIC RSL with no one really verifying these numbers on the other end. You can virtually log anything. Buffalo and LSU NO have a history for being unstable programs.

Im sure you were told to come on here to "clear things up". Why don't you clear up why your current chair got booted from Augusta...
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I firmly believe CODA site visits are rigged. I have a healthy distrust of dental education.
 
Pullem said:
Of course the numbers are consistent with what was presented. However, for those of you who don't know, cases are SELF reported to OMSNIC RSL with no one really verifying these numbers on the other end. You can virtually log anything. Buffalo and LSU NO have a history for being unstable programs.

Im sure you were told to come on here to "clear things up". Why don't you clear up why your current chair got booted from Augusta...
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First impression I thought it was petty of you to create a new account to bash other programs. However, I just did the same thing to respond so I guess I am no different 😎. A few responses here:

1. I agree with your earlier comment that you should not believe everything a program tells you. OMSNIC RSL case numbers are self-reported, but it's this way for every program. When I was applying and interviewing, I absolutely ignored anything a program told me about case logs and numbers. What matters more than numbers is the resident experience. I.e. how much of the cases does the resident actually do, what is the learning environment between attendings and residents, are the upper-level residents confident and well-trained, etc. You learn this by externing and speaking with current residents. It's very difficult to gain insight from a single presentation on interview day.
2. It is easy to be a keyboard warrior and bash certain programs. Do I believe you have insider knowledge that two programs 1,000 miles apart falsify procedure numbers? No. A simpler explanation is that you have a personal issue with these programs. And I get it. The interview/match process is messy. I would guess that almost every single resident finds a program they don't like while on the interview trail. But while you accuse others of having a naïve dental student mentality, I would argue a naïve dental student mentality is anyone who gives credence to anonymous SDN posts saying "believe me" and "trust that the information is accurate and true."
3. At the end of the day, the goal of everyone in this thread is to become an oral surgeon. Get a good CBSE, extern a lot, watch the residents, talk with the residents, be humble, work hard, and wherever you match is the one and only best program.

These comments are not verified by the FDA. If you suffer from low libido or premature occlusion, see your doctor.
 
I would agree that many times it was the same cohort of applicants interviewing at programs. At many of these unmatched programs for whatever reason (maybe not enough suitable applicants, arrogance, or medical school influence) they only interviewed like 5 applicants per spot, many of them with no ties or commitment i.e externship, family, at that program, while other programs were interviewing 15 highly interested/committed applicants per spot. And the few that these programs did invite were all sitting on 15+ interviews. Everyone can only match to one place in the end.

Program matched at: Southeast 6 year
NBME scores: 70 EPC
Class Ranking/Size: Unranked
Externship(s)/where: 4
Research: 3 posters
Extracurriculars: Non-cat, IM sports, some clubs as hobbies
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews attended/Programs Ranked: 52/28/24/24
 
prematureocclusion said:
First impression I thought it was petty of you to create a new account to bash other programs. However, I just did the same thing to respond so I guess I am no different 😎. A few responses here:

1. I agree with your earlier comment that you should not believe everything a program tells you. OMSNIC RSL case numbers are self-reported, but it's this way for every program. When I was applying and interviewing, I absolutely ignored anything a program told me about case logs and numbers. What matters more than numbers is the resident experience. I.e. how much of the cases does the resident actually do, what is the learning environment between attendings and residents, are the upper-level residents confident and well-trained, etc. You learn this by externing and speaking with current residents. It's very difficult to gain insight from a single presentation on interview day.
2. It is easy to be a keyboard warrior and bash certain programs. Do I believe you have insider knowledge that two programs 1,000 miles apart falsify procedure numbers? No. A simpler explanation is that you have a personal issue with these programs. And I get it. The interview/match process is messy. I would guess that almost every single resident finds a program they don't like while on the interview trail. But while you accuse others of having a naïve dental student mentality, I would argue a naïve dental student mentality is anyone who gives credence to anonymous SDN posts saying "believe me" and "trust that the information is accurate and true."
3. At the end of the day, the goal of everyone in this thread is to become an oral surgeon. Get a good CBSE, extern a lot, watch the residents, talk with the residents, be humble, work hard, and wherever you match is the one and only best program.

These comments are not verified by the FDA. If you suffer from low libido or premature occlusion, see your doctor.
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You’re right about this. In the grand scheme of things, the accuracy of case numbers doesn’t matter, all programs use some sort of embellishment. You have to make the most out of residency, wherever you end up. Most residents will graduate competent enough perform routine oral surgery procedures, and If not, they’ll be shortly and quickly learned once in private practice (if this is the route they take)

You’re wrong about this. If I could I would say it to your face, and anyone here for that matter. You either still believe the fairy tales your program chair tells you, or you’re still hanging on to that sliver of hope that your program will turn around and change for the better. Since your likely a PGY2, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume the latter.

Also, I don’t have a personal issue with your program or Buffalo’s program. I simply wanted to make it known how unstable the programs are. And also highlight that if programs are willing to lie before you even get there, you can only image how much worse it is and what more comes to light when you match.

For those of you who don’t want to believe me, come back and check this thread once you’ve spent some time at either of these programs. Perhaps you’ll have an epiphany or “aha” moment.
 
Long time lurker here and recent matchee (is this a word?), but figured I'd give my two cents. I interviewed at a decent amount of the programs that went unmatched. Most were pretty unimpressive. I don't know much about Buffalo or NE programs but I'd be interested to hear. Ive heard about continued instability at LSU but that's nothing new, plus it seems to have become mostly a cancer program. I realized most of the "big name" southern programs are pretty lackluster and I would advise applicants to look into programs you don't hear as much of. There are a lot of slept on OMFS programs that are killin it.
 
I think our field is shifting because of money. the academic jobs that make the 6 year appealing don't pay. also, its another 2-3 year of tuition at programs with an MD. Most people just want to get out and make $$ and so they apply for 4 year programs and say they will still do academics even though we know they won't since the only thing about academic omfs that is worthwhile are the baller surgeries that take 1-2 more years of fellowship.
 
LurkingOMFS said:
Long time lurker here and recent matchee (is this a word?), but figured I'd give my two cents. I interviewed at a decent amount of the programs that went unmatched. Most were pretty unimpressive. I don't know much about Buffalo or NE programs but I'd be interested to hear. Ive heard about continued instability at LSU but that's nothing new, plus it seems to have become mostly a cancer program. I realized most of the "big name" southern programs are pretty lackluster and I would advise applicants to look into programs you don't hear as much of. There are a lot of slept on OMFS programs that are killin it.
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LSU is still one of the best programs tho
 
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LurkingOMFS said:
Long time lurker here and recent matchee (is this a word?), but figured I'd give my two cents. I interviewed at a decent amount of the programs that went unmatched. Most were pretty unimpressive. I don't know much about Buffalo or NE programs but I'd be interested to hear. Ive heard about continued instability at LSU but that's nothing new, plus it seems to have become mostly a cancer program. I realized most of the "big name" southern programs are pretty lackluster and I would advise applicants to look into programs you don't hear as much of. There are a lot of slept on OMFS programs that are killin it.
Click to expand...

What are some examples of slept on programs?
 
omgomfs said:
LSU is still one of the most badass programs tho, there’s nothing like them
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See I just didn't get that vibe. They seemed like they were trying way too hard plus the lack of direction was a turn off. Im sure its not one of the worst programs, but top program? Not in my eyes.

Basically any 4 year is slept on. I feel as many of my classmates/ counterparts were so set on a 6 year program but a lot of current 6 year residents I've spoken to seem to regret it.
 
LurkingOMFS said:
See I just didn't get that vibe. They seemed like they were trying way too hard plus the lack of direction was a turn off. Im sure its not one of the worst programs, but top program? Not in my eyes.

Basically any 4 year is slept on. I feel as many of my classmates/ counterparts were so set on a 6 year program but a lot of current 6 year residents I've spoken to seem to regret it.
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let’s agree to disagree on LSU tho
 
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Van Der Woude said:
I think our field is shifting because of money. the academic jobs that make the 6 year appealing don't pay. also, its another 2-3 year of tuition at programs with an MD. Most people just want to get out and make $$ and so they apply for 4 year programs and say they will still do academics even though we know they won't since the only thing about academic omfs that is worthwhile are the baller surgeries that take 1-2 more years of fellowship.
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For me, 1 extra year at Case was worth it. 2 extra years was a very hard sell. There were a handful of programs that I thought might make it worth it, but not most.
 
Ivy.ch said:
For me, 1 extra year at Case was worth it. 2 extra years was a very hard sell. There were a handful of programs that I thought might make it worth it, but not most.
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What’s the cost of med school at Case? You pay for 2 or 3 years?
 
matching in a 6 year program out of school, even if its more expensive, is better than doing the 1-3 years as a gpr resident/non-cat to get into a 4 year program or a competitive 6 year program that pays for everything.

the opportunity cost is large ( a few million large). Apply everywhere.

Med school is a joke compared to an unaccredited position where they work you to the bone and still don't guarantee a match.
 
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