**Official Class of 2021 Thread** !

[redsox93]

According to this table I feel like low MCAT is way more difficult https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/data/factstablea24-4.pdf

Look at the people with 3.0-3.19 who get in with high MCAT scores (33 and up). Now compare that to people with 3.8-4.0 that get in with 24-26 MCATs. And it drops off even more if you go down to 3.6-3.79. It seems that low MCAT is way harder to get in with even with a high GPA

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[freak7]

Hey friend if you want to have that kinda attitude about your UG experience go for it.

I'm confused, I put forth an imaginary grading scenario that severely limits the opportunities of a pre-med getting their foot in the door at a med school and I think you're misinterpreting it as my attitude towards my UG experience.

Go take advantage the opportunity to take over with an empty slate.

I mean yeah, that's the plan, but I'm planning on going to a P/F school so the slate won't really matter (thank goodness)

 

[Doggeronie]

.

 

[getfat]

I'm confused, I put forth an imaginary grading scenario that severely limits the opportunities of a pre-med getting their foot in the door at a med school and I think you're misinterpreting it as my attitude towards my UG experience.

I mean yeah, that's the plan, but I'm planning on going to a P/F school so the slate won't really matter (thank goodness)

I probably did. My verbal score wasn't that high .

 

[750335]

There is a bit of self selction bias going on here.
1. Reporting is not standardized in DO schools for average / median acceptee vs matriculant
2. Not all DO's take step only the ones at the top of the classs or gunning for ACGME residencies
3. The reporting of step scores is not stanrdardized either.

It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you are good at high stakes high stress test(mcat) you are likely also good at another high stakes high stress test (STEP1)

Even with that considered, a high gpa/low mcat DO student can do well in an md school or an md exam. Low gpa/low mcat is where it gets interesting and DO schools are more likely to have that combo than md, and that is where things get interesting and that may account for the difference in step 1 averages. I have yet to meet someone here with low gpa/high mcat who did better than average on step 1. That said, my sample size has been tiny.

 

[freak7]

Even with that considered, a high gpa/low mcat DO student can do well in an md school or an md exam. Low gpa/low mcat is where it gets interesting and DO schools are more likely to have that combo than md, and that is where things get interesting and that may account for the difference in step 1 averages. I have yet to meet someone here with low gpa/high mcat who did better than average on step 1. That said, my sample size has been tiny.

Hopefully I can be the first one you know in a couple years

 

[libertyyne]

@tskiihii
Here. Read this paper this makes the argument I have been putting forth with actual DATA.
There is a reason schools are serious towards the mcat. They dont take low mcat scorers not because they hate low scores, but because they want to see their students actually complete medical school.
Paper starts at page 17. https://www.aamc.org/download/410078/data/mcatacademicmedicinearticles.pdf

 

[750335]

Hopefully I can be the first one you know in a couple years

I have read a few of your posts here and there, and if anyone can, definitely you.

 

[aalamruad]

Y'all are life savers, I totally forgot about the hep b stuff!

 

[freak7]

Y'all are life savers, I totally forgot about the hep b stuff!

We have to do hep b stuff?

 

[aalamruad]

We have to do hep b stuff?

Apparently! Check a couple pages back in this thread

 

[libertyyne]

We have to do hep b stuff?

Yeah Obamacare forces all perspective medical students to go out and get hep b prior to matriculation. Thanks Obama!

 

[750335]

@tskiihii
Here. Read this paper this makes the argument I have been putting forth with actual DATA.
There is a reason schools are serious towards the mcat. They dont take low mcat scorers not because they hate low scores, but because they want to see their students actually complete medical school.
Paper starts at page 17. https://www.aamc.org/download/410078/data/mcatacademicmedicinearticles.pdf

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I will read that but that doesn't seem to account for DO students though. It also just says more, what does more mean? What I need is a study that compares equal gpa DO and MD students, different mcats.

Have you looked at first aid? It is tailored literally after mcat. Yes, more information and more in depth but tons and tons of things there are also on the mcat so it makes sense they will be correlated but someone with a high gpa, who failed the mcat and decided to read first aid will make up for whatever they lost there.

Then there are classmates I know who also had high gpas but messed up the mcat so they went to the caribs, and they absolutely crushed step 1. I'd rather do the mcat again 10 times over than the hell that was undergrad. I think the issue is the extremely different experiences people have had in undergrad, but hey, lets agree to disagree.

 

[libertyyne]

I will read that but that doesn't seem to account for DO students though. It also just says more, what does more mean? What I need is a study that compares equal gpa DO and MD students, different mcats.

Have you looked at first aid? It is tailored literally after mcat. Yes, more information and more in depth but tons and tons of things there are also on the mcat so it makes sense they will be correlated but someone with a high gpa, who failed the mcat and decided to read first aid will make up for whatever they lost there.

Then there are classmates I know who also had high gpas but messed up the mcat so they went to the caribs, and they absolutely crushed step 1. I'd rather do the mcat again 10 times over than the hell that was undergrad. I think the issue is the extremely different experiences people have had in undergrad, but hey, lets agree to disagree.

Read the paper. Anecdotes <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< peer reviewed article with actual data.

 

[Astra]

A little meme magic to lighten the mood

 

[protego]

two more days at work!

 

[libertyyne]

two more days at work!

Are you quoting for good ? That must be super exciting.

 

[protego]

Are you quoting for good ? That must be super exciting.

Yep! I can't believe it.

 

[Kgizzle]

I wondered about this and have heard that this is a thing. But I didn't you know you had to be proactive about asking for the money lol

what would you even say? "SHOW ME THE MONAYYY"

My go to is the drop the pen trick... You drop a pen, slowly bend over to pick it up, look back and just hit em with the move. Works about 95% of the time. In case you're wondering what the move is, here is a teacup pig to show you.

 

[Kgizzle]

I think there is a method to the mcat madness. Not to put anyone's effort down, but with the right resources and advice, you can get a good mcat score in less than 6 months of dedicated study, even less if you are on sites like r/mcat all things being equal. I have 2 friends who hopefully are not lurking on this thread right now, who made 521 and 518 on the mcat but I'm not even sure they consider themselves that smart. They just lived on r/mcat and followed the advice of people here and there. That was actually what instigated my question because neither was accepted into MD schools this cycle because of their low gpa even with those scores.

I think you undervalue the PS and secondary portion of applications. Also there are ECs and all that jazz. But honestly, I don't think people realize how important the PS and secondary essays are in this whole process.

 

[Frogger27]

Haha, an M1 here did it and it worked so he was the one who encouraged me to try and it worked well for me too. Basically that haha - how you have been accepted here, here, here but want to go there and would like to be considered for a scholarship to lessen the financial burden on you blah blah - seemed a bit more polite than saying GIMME THE MONEY even though that is exactly what I meant lol

I did this as well and got a nice offer from a school... This school was pretty upfront about telling them if you have multiple acceptances/scholarships though

 

[protego]

I did this as well and got a nice offer from a school... This school was pretty upfront about telling them if you have multiple acceptances/scholarships though

Wow I'm shocked to hear this... Also typically a non-confrontational person so doing this would terrify me. Did you guys tell the school what schools specifically you were holding acceptances with better $ offers at? Like did you approach them upfront with numbers and details?

 

[EEtoPre-Med]

So if one was to try this approach of "I have been accepted multiple places can you give me any scholarship" what happens if they don't release financial aid until after April 30th. Does that mean it's a no go?

 

[libertyyne]

So if one was to try this approach of "I have been accepted multiple places can you give me any scholarship" what happens if they don't release financial aid until after April 30th. Does that mean it's a no go?

1+
Do you need to know financial awards from other places before you leverage? I was awarded money at a private school but the tuition is still higher than my IS school that is my top choice. Should I send a message to my top choice even though they are cheaper even after scholarship?

 

[Frogger27]

Wow I'm shocked to hear this... Also typically a non-confrontational person so doing this would terrify me. Did you guys tell the school what schools specifically you were holding acceptances with better $ offers at? Like did you approach them upfront with numbers and details?

I listed the schools I had received scholarships from (with a screen shot of the scholarship offer) as well as list the state school I was accepted at (because it was lower tuition). I wrote why I thought I was a good fit for this program and why I would strongly consider it over the other schools; however, financials are a big part of the decision making process.... They offered me a generous scholarship that was similar to my state schools tuition

 

[Astra]

Do you need to know financial awards from other places before you leverage? I was awarded money at a private school but the tuition is still higher than my IS school that is my top choice. Should I send a message to my top choice even though they are cheaper even after scholarship?

just to make sure I have it right, your top choice is your cheapest school currently and you are wondering if you can make it cheaper?

 

[libertyyne]

just to make sure I have it right, your top choice is your cheapest school currently and you are wondering if you can make it cheaper?

You got it ! Devious I know.

 

[Astra]

I listed the schools I had received scholarships from (with a screen shot of the scholarship offer) as well as list the state school I was accepted at (because it was lower tuition). I wrote why I thought I was a good fit for this program and why I would strongly consider it over the other schools; however, financials are a big part of the decision making process.... They offered me a generous scholarship that was similar to my state schools tuition

 

[Astra]

You got it ! Devious I know.

but how would you go about leveraging it? You can't show them any another school is offering you a lower CoA. So what excuse would you give them so that they drop the tuition? I'm sure there are plenty of people on the waitlist who wouldnt mind paying full sticker price

 

[libertyyne]

but how would you go about leveraging it? You can't show them any another school is offering you a lower CoA. So what excuse would you give them so that they drop the tuition? I'm sure there are plenty of people on the waitlist who wouldnt mind paying full sticker price

It's a little more nuanced then that.
School A top choice cheap , highest ranked so hates location
School B , cheap , I hate the corriculum, lower ranked , So loves location.
School C , expensive, lowest ranked, weird corriculum, SO loves location.

If school A offered me money I could make a stronger case not to go to school B or school C. If school B gave me money I would lose my mind. School C has already given me some money but I am not in love with corriculum or rotations.

 

[Astra]

It's a little more nuanced then that.
School A top choice cheap , highest ranked so hates location
School B , cheap , I hate the corriculum, lower ranked , So loves location.
School C , expensive, lowest ranked, weird corriculum, SO loves location.

If school A offered me money I could make a stronger case not to go to school B or school C. If school B gave me money I would lose my mind. School C has already given me some money but I am not in love with corriculum or rotations.

Tell school B about School A's tuition being cheaper and do what frogger did.

Get a scholarship from school B.

Tell School A about your scholarship from School B.

Get a scholarship from School A.

Don't tell your SO about your scholarship from School B.

Profit

 

[libertyyne]

Tell school B about School A's tuition being cheaper and do what frogger did.

Get a scholarship from school B.

Tell School A about your scholarship from School B.

Get a scholarship from School A.

Don't tell your SO about your scholarship from School B.

Profit

This is devious and genius.

 

[Frogger27]

@Astra118

 

[Dr.Kat]

My go to is the drop the pen trick... You drop a pen, slowly bend over to pick it up, look back and just hit em with the move. Works about 95% of the time. In case you're wondering what the move is, here is a teacup pig to show you.

LOLLLLLLLL

 

[Dr.Kat]

I listed the schools I had received scholarships from (with a screen shot of the scholarship offer) as well as list the state school I was accepted at (because it was lower tuition). I wrote why I thought I was a good fit for this program and why I would strongly consider it over the other schools; however, financials are a big part of the decision making process.... They offered me a generous scholarship that was similar to my state schools tuition

Hey frogger, did you email the admissions office or the financial aid office?

 

[Frogger27]

Hey frogger, did you email the admissions office or the financial aid office?

I actually emailed it directly to the director of admissions because he asked to send it to him, but I am sure the admissions office would be the place. I would add it as an "update" and say that you wish for it to be added to your file for consideration by the scholarship committee.

 

[WineLover777]

I actually emailed it directly to the director of admissions because he asked to send it to him, but I am sure the admissions office would be the place. I would add it as an "update" and say that you wish for it to be added to your file for consideration by the scholarship committee.

Would you recommend doing this before the initial financial aid package comes out from the school?

 

[Frogger27]

Would you recommend doing this before the initial financial aid package comes out from the school?

I did it before the financial aid package was released from the school, but that was because they explicitly told us on interview day that we have other scholarship offers to let them know. I even sent them this information before I had a decision on my application.

 

[750335]

I think you undervalue the PS and secondary portion of applications. Also there are ECs and all that jazz. But honestly, I don't think people realize how important the PS and secondary essays are in this whole process.

Fair enough, but I still think it is their gpa and maybe letter of recommendations because I didn't see those. I don't want to give more info because like I said they are here on SDN. They got an interview to every single DO school they applied to (14) including all of the top ones, which is why I say I think it is gpa not anything else, and now have a few scholarships so they are happy. We are all still holding out for MD schools for them though, a few late IIs trickled in so fingers crossed but I get your point.

 

[750335]

Up to you guys, I didn't send any screenshots, and I didn't even list the schools I was accepted in. Just said I was accepted in x number. They can see it now anyway, since it is past Feb 10. You can leverage just by multiple acceptances. However, if one of those has offered you a scholarship, you can add that too. I was also told that if any of the other schools offer more to contact them first to see if they can as well. I get that it feels awkward but you forget all that when it works.

 

[freak7]

Fair enough, but I still think it is their gpa and maybe letter of recommendations because I didn't see those. I don't want to give more info because like I said they are here on SDN. They got an interview to every single DO school they applied to (14) including all of the top ones, which is why I say I think it is gpa not anything else, and now have a few scholarships so they are happy. We are all still holding out for MD schools for them though, a few late IIs trickled in so fingers crossed but I get your point.

I think the major confounding variable for this discussion is that Canada's UG's are way way way way different than the US's

 

[750335]

I think the major confounding variable for this discussion is that Canada's UG's are way way way way different than the US's

100%.

It is obvious our school systems are different; maybe more so than I realized. All the same, we can let it go. However you made into med school, you made it. Make the best of it.

 

[freak7]

Make the best of it.

Just because you said that, I'm going to make the worst of it!

 

[750335]

Just because you said that, I'm going to make the worst of it!

Hehe as if you can. I'm personally rooting for you. Hope you are still here in a few years

 

[libertyyne]

Here are step Score Averages of Schools correlated to MCAT Matriculant scores.

 

[redsox93]

Here are step Score Averages of Schools correlated to MCAT Matriculant scores.

what's this data from?

 

[libertyyne]

what's this data from?

I abstracted and charted it from a shady website.

 

[redsox93]

I abstracted and charted it from a shady website.

 

[Doggeronie]

Here are step Score Averages of Schools correlated to MCAT Matriculant scores.

I want to believe in MCAT superiority but I personally don't know how meaningful that chart is

 

[libertyyne]

I want to believe in MCAT superiority but I personally don't know how meaningful that chart is

This is from the peer reviewed journal article that was included in the AMCAS packet I cited above.