Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[fldoctorgirl]

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Well....if 2022 people are gonna start posting on here...I have a question I've been wondering for a bit.

How many programs should I apply to???

Basic info:
DO student, top 1/3rd pre-clinical, will likely be near the top of my class clinically (rank has not been released to us yet) as I have honored all but 1 rotation thus far with 1 left. Electives are P/F at my school.
Step 1 250-255, COMLEX 1 600-615, Step 2/COMLEX 2 TBD
Letters should be strong, clinical comments that will go on MSPE were pretty good, with several indicating I was the one of the best students they have had/will make a great resident/etc
No red flags that I know of

I am not interested in a top program. My goals are to either be a hospitalist or work as a PCP. My biggest goal is to return home, which is South Florida. If I can't match in South Florida, I'd like to at least match in Florida somewhere. My med school is in the midwest, but other than that I always lived in South FL.

I'm completely unsure of how many programs to apply to. There are just under 40 programs in FL, and I will likely apply to all of them and then go from there once I have interviews. I was going to apply to a couple of programs in my med school state too. This would probably bring me to just about 40 programs. Should I apply to more programs in my med school state?? More programs in general?? I am completely lost because I feel like with my stats and the kind of programs I am targeting-- mostly all community-- that 40 is a good number, but I am terrified of going unmatched and/or these programs thinking I am using them as safeties given my high stats (hopefully my PS and potential LOIs should I not hear from them will abate those fears). I would appreciate any advice on how many programs I should plan on applying to. I have no problem researching and adding more, but I also don't want to add to the problem of people just overapplying to programs they don't really want to go to. But, I also don't want to go unmatched lol.

 

[Internist_Sandman]

Well....if 2022 people are gonna start posting on here...I have a question I've been wondering for a bit.

How many programs should I apply to???

Basic info:
DO student, top 1/3rd pre-clinical, will likely be near the top of my class clinically (rank has not been released to us yet) as I have honored all but 1 rotation thus far with 1 left. Electives are P/F at my school.
Step 1 250-255, COMLEX 1 600-615, Step 2/COMLEX 2 TBD
Letters should be strong, clinical comments that will go on MSPE were pretty good, with several indicating I was the one of the best students they have had/will make a great resident/etc
No red flags that I know of

I am not interested in a top program. My goals are to either be a hospitalist or work as a PCP. My biggest goal is to return home, which is South Florida. If I can't match in South Florida, I'd like to at least match in Florida somewhere. My med school is in the midwest, but other than that I always lived in South FL.

I'm completely unsure of how many programs to apply to. There are just under 40 programs in FL, and I will likely apply to all of them and then go from there once I have interviews. I was going to apply to a couple of programs in my med school state too. This would probably bring me to just about 40 programs. Should I apply to more programs in my med school state?? More programs in general?? I am completely lost because I feel like with my stats and the kind of programs I am targeting-- mostly all community-- that 40 is a good number, but I am terrified of going unmatched and/or these programs thinking I am using them as safeties given my high stats (hopefully my PS and potential LOIs should I not hear from them will abate those fears). I would appreciate any advice on how many programs I should plan on applying to. I have no problem researching and adding more, but I also don't want to add to the problem of people just overapplying to programs they don't really want to go to. But, I also don't want to go unmatched lol.

If you want to practice in Florida, then apply to all Florida programs you want and then some regionally close by. As a DO, over-applying is not as bad as under-applying. I think about 50-60 programs would be appropriate if you don't care about prestige.

 

[statlin98]

DO student interested in GI or Cards fellowship thus aiming for at least mid tier University program with in house fellowships. Preferably on the east coast.

Med school: Southern DO
USMLE Step 1: 250-255
USMLE Step 2 CK: Not taken yet (assuming 25X-26X based on current performance)
AOA: -
Clinical Grades: Majority honors, including honors in the second half of my IM rotation
LORs: I'm thinking they should be pretty strong personality letters. Planning on getting one from a GI doc, one from outpt IM, one from our rotation site's clinical coordinator. I would love to get one from an academic away but with COVID who knows if that'll be possible.
Dean's Letter: Expecting it to be strong (uses M3 rotation and subI evaluations)
Research: Somewhat lacking. No pubs, one poster, one abstract, one case study, will have at least 6-7 oral presentations
ECs: Nothing crazy. Some free clinic volunteering, participated in interesting fundraising gig
Red flags: None

 

[inthezone2]

DO student interested in GI or Cards fellowship thus aiming for at least mid tier University program with in house fellowships. Preferably on the east coast.

Med school: Southern DO
USMLE Step 1: 250-255
USMLE Step 2 CK: Not taken yet (assuming 25X-26X based on current performance)
AOA: -
Clinical Grades: Majority honors, including honors in the second half of my IM rotation
LORs: I'm thinking they should be pretty strong personality letters. Planning on getting one from a GI doc, one from outpt IM, one from our rotation site's clinical coordinator. I would love to get one from an academic away but with COVID who knows if that'll be possible.
Dean's Letter: Expecting it to be strong (uses M3 rotation and subI evaluations)
Research: Somewhat lacking. No pubs, one poster, one abstract, one case study, will have at least 6-7 oral presentations
ECs: Nothing crazy. Some free clinic volunteering, participated in interesting fundraising gig
Red flags: None

Your stats should be fine for any program that takes DO's. Look at the academic programs in geographic areas that you want to be in and then parse through the resident profiles of programs in these areas. Apply to those programs with at least several DO's a year. Make sure to round out your list, about 1/3, with backup community programs

 

[brabaroni]

Applying to IM this coming cycle, interested in academic programs across the country. Concerned about my complete lack of research currently. Can't figure out how much that will hold me back.

Med school: Mid-tear MD
Quartile: unsure, 3rd or 4th
Step 1: 248
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Clinical grades: OK, I have started to struggle with shelf exams after changing my studying strategies unfortunately.
LORs: 2-3 strong letters
Research: Currently nonexistent. An attending that is advising me told me I will be able to do a review article for her in a high-impact journal over the summer that will be able to be on my ERAS. She says I will be able to help another project for a publication but that will happen after ERAS is due.
Extracurriculars: Longitudinal involvement in our very expansive community health fair/clinic program. Very passionate about this EC and I told myself this + good step 1 score was good enough but who knows. Other ECs include treasurer of class, global health trip with leadership positions, and other underserved clinic volunteering.
Red flags: none

At the moment I am most interested in heme/onc.

Tentative application list:
UCI
UCLA
UCSD
UCSF
UCD
USC
Stanford
Cedars-Sinai
U of Colorado
Georgetown
George Washington
UM
Emory
U of Hawaii
U of Chicago
Northwestern
Mass Gen
Brigham Women's
NYP - Cornell
NYP - Colombia
NYU
Mt Sinai
Albert Einstein - montefiore
Oregon Health & science
Upenn
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
Vanderbilt
Baylor
UT Houston
UTSW
University of Washington

 

[gutonc]

Applying to IM this coming cycle, interested in academic programs across the country. Concerned about my complete lack of research currently. Can't figure out how much that will hold me back.

Easter basket: Mid-tear MD
Quartile: unsure, 3rd or 4th
Step 1: 248
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Clinical grades: OK, I have started to struggle with shelf exams after changing my studying strategies unfortunately.
LORs: 2-3 strong letters
Research: Currently nonexistent. An rabbit that is advising me told me I will be able to do a review article for her in a high-impact journal over the summer that will be able to be on my ERAS. She says I will be able to help another project for a publication but that will happen after ERAS is due.
Extracurriculars: Longitudinal involvement in our very expansive community health fair/clinic program. Very passionate about this EC and I told myself this + good step 1 score was good enough but who knows. Other ECs include treasurer of class, global health trip with leadership positions, and other underserved clinic volunteering.
Red flags: none

At the moment I am most interested in heme/onc.

Tentative Easter egg collection list:
UCI
UCLA
UCSD
UCSF
UCD
USC
Stanford
Cedars-Sinai
U of Colorado
Georgetown
George Washington
UM
Emory
U of Hawaii
U of Chicago
Northwestern
Mass Gen
Brigham Women's
NYP - Cornell
NYP - Colombia
NYU
Mt Sinai
Albert Einstein - montefiore
Oregon Health & science
Upenn
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
Vanderbilt
Baylor
UT Houston
UTSW
University of Washington

The crossed-out programs are going to be donations to ERAS/AAMC. Feel free to apply, but you won't get any satisfaction there. And if UM is Michigan, cross that one out too.

Looking geographically, you could get another 20 excellent programs in similar/nearby locations without too much trouble.

 

[the argus]

Easter basket: mid tier southern school
USMLE Step 1: 215-220
USMLE Step 2 CK: Not taken yet (realistically ~230)
AOA/GHHS: no
Clinical Grades: entirely pass, strong comments on clinical performance but never met shelf score thresholds for honors consideration
LORs: probably somewhat above average regarding clinical performance on rotations, also discussing research and EC activities
Dean's message in a bottle: Relatively strong endorsement from a school that emphasizes non-academic aspects of medicine
Research: 2 publications, 9 posters including 2 first place winners at conferences (one large regional, one smaller), many oral presentations. 2 additional first-author publications in progress and 2-3 additional posters as well.
ECs: very unique. MBA with significant experience in healthcare consulting, clinical program development (creating value-based payment models), entrepreneurship, startup advisory, involved on admin establishing a post-COVID clinic and case series.
Red flags: None

*before crossing out programs with this step 1 score, the match rate is still ~96.5% in this score band and if you review Texas STAR results, you will see successful matches in the past 3 cycles with Step 1 <220 at: Einstein, Baylor, BU, BWH, Hopkins, Brown, Duke, Emory, Mt. Sinai, all Kaiser programs, UCLA, OHSU, Temple, Tufts, UCSD, UNC, USC, UW, Vanderbilt, Yale, among others. This is why I kept these programs on my list. That being said of course I'm realistic and what I am hoping for on my list overall would be some more recommendations of community programs (a lot more, like 10-15) that still maintain fellowships as an option down the road. It has been hard to find community programs. Also, my list is at ~40 and I would like to get to ~60. It's also a weird list in terms of locations, there are probably entire cities I can add.

List -Academic:
Baylor
UT Houston (McGovern)
UTSW
UTHSCSA (Long - San Antonio)
UT Austin (Dell)
Kaiser LA
Cedars Sinai
UC Irvine
UCLA
USC
UCSD
UC Davis
U Arizona
Creighton
Mayo Arizona
Temple
Drexel
UT Nashville
Vanderbilt
U Colorado
GW
Georgetown
BU
Tufts
OHSU
U Washington
Emory
LSU New Orleans
Tulane
UNC
Duke
Mayo Jacksonville
U Miami

Community:
Methodist Houston
Methodist Dallas
Providence Portland
Legacy
Virginia Mason
Adventist Health White Memorial
Scripps

Your list is a little all over the place, both geographically and in terms of competitiveness. You have some extremely competitive programs (Duke, Vanderbilt, UW) and some very not competitive programs (Drexel doesn't even have an IM program anymore FYI, but would have fallen into that group).

Do you really have no preferences in terms of geography? Then in that case here are some other reasonable options.

Academic:
UMass
Yale
Montefiore/Einstein (other NYC programs are pretty competitive other than SUNY downstate)
Rutgers RWJ
Thomas Jefferson (Philly, generally considered higher tier than Temple but obviously below UPenn)
U Maryland
U Virginia
Wake Forest
U Florida

Community:
Maine Med
Lahey Clinic
Mount Sinai morningside/west (previously st lukes/roosevelt)

 

[brabaroni]

The crossed-out programs are going to be donations to ERAS/AAMC. Feel free to hop, but you won't get any satisfaction there. And if UM is Michigan, cross that one out too.

Looking geographically, you could get another 20 excellent programs in similar/nearby locations without too much trouble.

Thanks for the response. As for specifically the crossed out CA schools, I am from CA, does this change any of that calculus or are they simply out of my shooting range? Should've clarified by UM I meant University of Miami.

My list was basically built off of where had a comprehensive cancer center as I am interested in heme/onc and would like good exposure. Any thoughts on how I can broaden my search for solid academic programs in/around cities? Better trying to understand how to find those other 20 excellent programs you mention.

Thanks again! Really appreciate the feedback.

 

[the argus]

Thanks for the response. As for specifically the crossed out CA schools, I am from CA, does this change any of that calculus or are they simply out of my shooting range? Should've clarified by UM I meant University of Miami.

My list was basically built off of where had a comprehensive cancer center as I am interested in heme/onc and would like good exposure. Any thoughts on how I can broaden my search for solid academic programs in/around cities? Better trying to understand how to find those other 20 excellent programs you mention.

Thanks again! Really appreciate the feedback.

Add U South Florida, not very competitive for IM but Moffitt is a legit cancer center.

 

[inthezone2]

Thanks for the response. As for specifically the crossed out CA schools, I am from CA, does this change any of that calculus or are they simply out of my shooting range? Should've clarified by UM I meant University of Miami.

My list was basically built off of where had a comprehensive cancer center as I am interested in heme/onc and would like good exposure. Any thoughts on how I can broaden my search for solid academic programs in/around cities? Better trying to understand how to find those other 20 excellent programs you mention.

Thanks again! Really appreciate the feedback.

Hey not the person who responded to you originally, but I'd recommend applying to all the places that were crossed out. Your step 1 score is within batting range and you'd be surprised by the interviews you'll get and the ones you don't.. Attendings read these apps and they sometimes aren't the most objective, inviting random people. Think of the weirdoes you probably have at your med school. That was my experience this cycle. The trend is to apply to more programs so definitely aim for the stars and apply to all of them and more. You only have one shot at this so make it count.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks for the response. As for specifically the crossed out CA schools, I am from CA, does this change any of that calculus or are they simply out of my shooting range? Should've clarified by UM I meant University of Miami.

My list was basically built off of where had a comprehensive cancer center as I am interested in heme/onc and would like good exposure. Any thoughts on how I can broaden my search for solid academic programs in/around cities? Better trying to understand how to find those other 20 excellent programs you mention.

Thanks again! Really appreciate the feedback.

1. CCC status is completely irrelevant to your training in IM, or Oncology. It's about available patient support services, clinical trial opportunities and R01 funding for basic science researchers. It has absolutely nothing to do with your training. I mean, if you're comparing a NYC, Boston, Chicago, LA, etc program with CCC status vs not, I guess that might be somewhat useful. But in the rest of the country, it's irrelevant.

2. If you're a CA resident at a CA school, then perhaps you'll get more love from the CA programs. But otherwise, no.

Look, apply where you want. And I'm the first to admit that the invite process is random AF (as a MS4 I got invites from Cornell, Mt Sinai, UChicago, WashU and MGH, but not Columbia, NYU, NW or Brigham). But your app needs to *pop* somehow to get those top tier invites. Mine was AOA and a PhD (with mediocre Steps and from a crap school). Your app, at least as you've outlined it here, doesn't *pop*. None of this is to say that you're not going to be a great IM resident and get a good fellowship spot. But reality is what it is.

 

[gutonc]

Med school: Low tier community based MD program
Quartile: 1st or 2nd
Step 1: 255
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Clinical grades: 4/6 honors, 2/6 high pass (HP IM)
Research: 3 middle author publications, 2 poster presentations
Not really much ECs or leadership in med school
No AOA but GHHS
Red flags: none

Was hoping for some feedback on some of the reach programs listed below. Location doesn't matter so much as maximizing opportunity for GI

i.e Emory, Duke, UNC, Vanderbilt, UTSW, Baylor, Michigan, Northwestern, UPMC, Mayo, WashU, BIDMC, UAB, Yale, Ohio State, UChicago

I'm not sure what a "community based MD program" means. Is this a school anyone has heard of? Where have people gone for IM from your school in the recent past?

Your stats seem fine, but it also seems like you just vomited a bunch of "big names" to come up with a list. Some of those you'll get offers at, most you won't (unless your "community based MD program" is Mayo or CCF). No reason to not apply, but recognize that it's likely to be a low return situation.

I can do the same thing with a similar list that will set you up for a GI spot (if you "earn" it) as easily as the ones you named.
Wisco
UMinn
Iowa
Indy
CCF
CWRU
Wake
Jeff
UMD
Dartmouth
BU
UVA
Miami
...I could go on, but I'm bored.

 

[gutonc]

Your list is a little all over the place, both geographically and in terms of competitiveness. You have some extremely competitive programs (Duke, Vanderbilt, UW) and some very not competitive programs (Drexel doesn't even have an IM program anymore FYI, but would have fallen into that group).

Do you really have no preferences in terms of geography? Then in that case here are some other reasonable options.

Academic:
UMass
Yale
Montefiore/Einstein (other NYC programs are pretty competitive other than SUNY downstate)
Rutgers RWJ
Thomas Jefferson (Philly, generally considered higher tier than Temple but obviously below UPenn)
U Maryland
U Virginia
Wake Forest
U Florida

Community:
Maine Med
Lahey Clinic
Mount Sinai morningside/west (previously st lukes/roosevelt)

Would add:

Uni:
Utah
Iowa
Indy
Wisco
UMinn
CCF
CWRU
Dartmouth

Community:
CPMC
SCVMC
SB Cottage (is that still a place?)
All the other Kaiser programs in CA (these aren't Uni programs, no matter what Kaiser says).

 

[gutonc]

Thank you! Looking into these now, I really appreciate it. Agreed on Kaiser I just listed that wrong.

Two questions:
1) are there screens at Step 1 <220? Common knowledge suggests yes, but if you search program specific websites most either don't mention a screen or explicitly state they do not have one, this includes top programs. I know of a program that publicly lists a screen at 225 (!) but has matched multiple students <210 in recent cycles.
2) overall impression of chances at mid-tier IM vs community program?

1. All screens are dynamic. Don't obsess over them since there's nothing you can do about them. Be realistic and practical.
2. You'll be fine.

 

[Adjet]

Applying to IM this coming cycle, interested in academic programs across the country. Concerned about my complete lack of research currently. Can't figure out how much that will hold me back.

Med school: Mid-tear MD
Quartile: unsure, 3rd or 4th
Step 1: 248
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Clinical grades: OK, I have started to struggle with shelf exams after changing my studying strategies unfortunately.
LORs: 2-3 strong letters
Research: Currently nonexistent. An attending that is advising me told me I will be able to do a review article for her in a high-impact journal over the summer that will be able to be on my ERAS. She says I will be able to help another project for a publication but that will happen after ERAS is due.
Extracurriculars: Longitudinal involvement in our very expansive community health fair/clinic program. Very passionate about this EC and I told myself this + good step 1 score was good enough but who knows. Other ECs include treasurer of class, global health trip with leadership positions, and other underserved clinic volunteering.
Red flags: none

At the moment I am most interested in heme/onc.

Tentative application list:
UCI
UCLA
UCSD
UCSF
UCD
USC
Stanford
Cedars-Sinai
U of Colorado
Georgetown
George Washington
UM
Emory
U of Hawaii
U of Chicago
Northwestern
Mass Gen
Brigham Women's
NYP - Cornell
NYP - Colombia
NYU
Mt Sinai
Albert Einstein - montefiore
Oregon Health & science
Upenn
Temple
Thomas Jefferson
Vanderbilt
Baylor
UT Houston
UTSW
University of Washington

Research isn't really a huge deal for IM like it is for other subspecialties. It's nice to have, but you seem to have extensive involvement in other extracirriculars which should be fine. The much more important factor is clinical grades. If you haven't done your IM rotation yet, focus really hard to Honor. Honestly, without knowing your IM rotation grade, it's difficult to provide an accurate assessment of your chances at all those places. Without being AOA, many of the programs @gutonc highlighted would be very difficult to recieve interviews from (since you go to a mid-tier school).

 

[Deecee2DO]

USDO student shooting for T25 IM programs and was wondering if I have a shot at all. Here is my app-would you mind weighing in your thoughts on my safeties targets and reaches

Honored all core rotations as well as Cardiology and all other rotations (have OB left and hoping to honor). Evals are very strong

Class Rank-Top 10%-ish

Step 1-254

Step 2-TBD (shooting for 270+)

Research-4 Pubs right now 2 first author in NEJM and 2 co-authors in other peer reviewed journals

AOA-N/A My school doesnt have it

Specialty of Interest: GI or Allergy (want to do at a top tier place)

ECs: Partner/head tutor for a Step 1 tutoring company with other physicians (help develop company platform student resources business side of things etc), mentor for foster children, teach science class online/develop my own lesson plans etc to urban high and middle school classes, mentor at mentor program for pre-meds, 5 work experiences prior to and during med school (one being worked as chiropractor during MS1 and MS2 to support myself financially-have a DC degree went to chiro school right after undergrad and before med school before going to med school), Treasurer for GI club

Other degrees-doctorate in another healthcare field

Strong letters so far one from PD of my hubsite IM program, my PI from Wake Forest and a cardiologist. Hoping to audition at academic programs to get a letter

Target IM programs-
-Georgetown
-Brown
-Dartmouth
-Wake Forest
-BU
-UVA
-UNC-Chapel Hill
-Tulane
-Pitt (UPMC Presby)
-UMiami
-Cleveland Clinic FL
-MUSC (Charleston)
-UConn
-GW
-UMaryland
-Pennsy
-UFlorida
-Mayo Scottsdale and Jax

Reach Programs
-Yale
-Vandy (lmao)
-Tufts
-Emory
-Baylor (BCM)
-Stanford (lmao)
-Duke (lmao)
-Cornell (lmao)
-Mayo Rochester
-Cleveland Clinic Main

Safety
-UMass
-VCU
-EVMS
-ECU
-USC Columbia
-Penn State
-Virginia Tech Carilion
-Medical College of Georgia
-USF Morsani
-UTennessee (UTHC)
-LSU
-UofAz (Tuscon)
-FAU

 

[the argus]

USDO student shooting for T25 IM programs and was wondering if I have a shot at all. Here is my app-would you mind weighing in your thoughts on my safeties targets and reaches

Honored all core rotations as well as Cardiology and all other rotations (have OB left and hoping to honor). Evals are very strong

Class Rank-Top 10%-ish

Step 1-254

Step 2-TBD (shooting for 270+)

Research-4 Pubs right now 2 first author in NEJM and 2 co-authors in other peer reviewed journals

AOA-N/A My school doesnt have it

Specialty of Interest: GI or Allergy (want to do at a top tier place)

ECs: Partner/head tutor for a Step 1 tutoring company with other physicians (help develop company platform student resources business side of things etc), mentor for foster children, teach science class online/develop my own lesson plans etc to urban high and middle school classes, mentor at mentor program for pre-meds, 5 work experiences prior to and during med school (one being worked as chiropractor during MS1 and MS2 to support myself financially-have a DC degree went to chiro school right after undergrad and before med school before going to med school), Treasurer for GI club

Other degrees-doctorate in another healthcare field

Strong letters so far one from PD of my hubsite IM program, my PI from Wake Forest and a cardiologist. Hoping to audition at academic programs to get a letter

Target IM programs-
-Georgetown
-Brown
-Dartmouth
-Wake Forest
-BU
-UVA
-UNC-Chapel Hill
-Tulane
-Pitt (UPMC Presby)
-UMiami
-Cleveland Clinic FL
-MUSC (Charleston)
-UConn
-GW
-UMaryland
-Pennsy
-UFlorida
-Mayo Scottsdale and Jax

Reach Programs
-Yale
-Vandy (lmao)
-Tufts
-Emory
-Baylor (BCM)
-Stanford (lmao)
-Duke (lmao)
-Cornell (lmao)
-Mayo Rochester
-Cleveland Clinic Main

Safety
-UMass
-VCU
-EVMS
-ECU
-USC Columbia
-Penn State
-Virginia Tech Carilion
-Medical College of Georgia
-USF Morsani
-UTennessee (UTHC)
-LSU
-UofAz (Tuscon)
-FAU

You seem to have a strong application but I think you may be underestimating the affect coming from a DO school has on your chances of matching at top IM programs.

I would also question why you are concerned about going to a "top 25" or "top tier" institution. Do you have a specific research interest that you need to be at a major academic institution for? Are you going to pursue running a lab and having like a 70/30 research/clinical split to your career?

I also think you have some of the programs mis-categorized in terms of their competitiveness. Changes are in bold. There's also probably a fine line between many of your target and safety programs so I didn't bother changing them around, and I would consider only a couple of those truly "safety" programs.

Target IM programs-
-UMass (generally considered on par or more competitive than a place like UConn)
-Georgetown
-Wake Forest
-Tulane
-UMiami
-MUSC (Charleston)
-UConn
-GW
-UMaryland
-UFlorida
-Mayo Scottsdale and Jax

Reach Programs
-Brown
-Dartmouth
-BU
-UVA
-UNC-Chapel Hill
-Pitt (UPMC Presby)
-Pennsy (if this is UPenn, then it is probably the most competitive program on your list)
-Yale
-Vandy (lmao)
-Tufts
-Emory
-Baylor (BCM)
-Stanford (lmao)
-Duke (lmao)
-Cornell (lmao)
-Mayo Rochester
-Cleveland Clinic Main

Safety
-Cleveland Clinic FL (small community program, likely the least competitive program on your list)
-VCU
-EVMS
-ECU
-USC Columbia
-Penn State
-Virginia Tech Carilion
-Medical College of Georgia
-USF Morsani
-UTennessee (UTHC)
-LSU
-UofAz (Tuscon)
-FAU

 

[Deecee2DO]

You seem to have a strong application but I think you may be underestimating the affect coming from a DO school has on your chances of matching at top IM programs.

I would also question why you are concerned about going to a "top 25" or "top tier" institution. Do you have a specific research interest that you need to be at a major academic institution for? Are you going to pursue running a lab and having like a 70/30 research/clinical split to your career?

I also think you have some of the programs mis-categorized in terms of their competitiveness. Changes are in bold. There's also probably a fine line between many of your target and safety programs so I didn't bother changing them around, and I would consider only a couple of those truly "safety" programs.

Target IM programs-
-UMass (generally considered on par or more competitive than a place like UConn)
-Georgetown
-Wake Forest
-Tulane
-UMiami
-MUSC (Charleston)
-UConn
-GW
-UMaryland
-UFlorida
-Mayo Scottsdale and Jax

Reach Programs
-Brown
-Dartmouth
-BU
-UVA
-UNC-Chapel Hill
-Pitt (UPMC Presby)
-Pennsy (if this is UPenn, then it is probably the most competitive program on your list)
-Yale
-Vandy (lmao)
-Tufts
-Emory
-Baylor (BCM)
-Stanford (lmao)
-Duke (lmao)
-Cornell (lmao)
-Mayo Rochester
-Cleveland Clinic Main

Safety
-Cleveland Clinic FL (small community program, likely the least competitive program on your list)
-VCU
-EVMS
-ECU
-USC Columbia
-Penn State
-Virginia Tech Carilion
-Medical College of Georgia
-USF Morsani
-UTennessee (UTHC)
-LSU
-UofAz (Tuscon)
-FAU

Thanks for weighing in but how are Brown and Dartmouth reaches there are DOs who match there every year? UNC and BU also have DOs and UVA has matched DOs in the past 3 years. With 250s steps all honors in third year and first author research if there are DOs on the roster then id imagine I have a pretty good shot at Brown Dart UNC Pennsy BU and UVA? Also Pennsy is not HUP its the easier of the two and they have many DOs there several from my DO school (2 matched there last year). @AlteredScale where you at

 

[whoknows2012]

Thanks for weighing in but how are Brown and Dartmouth reaches there are DOs who match there every year? UNC and BU also have DOs and UVA has matched DOs in the past 3 years. With 250s steps all honors in third year and first author research if there are DOs on the roster then id imagine I have a pretty good shot at Brown Dart UNC Pennsy BU and UVA? Also Pennsy is not HUP its the easier of the two and they have many DOs there several from my DO school (2 matched there last year). @AlteredScale where you at

I’ll start off by saying that you appear on paper at least to have an excellent CV and app, especially if you hit that 270+ on step 2. The problem with wanting T25 isn’t that you’re not a strong enough candidate; all else being equal you’re actually quite a strong candidate as I’m sure you realize. The issue as has been mentioned is the DO bias that still persists at many academic programs. Many won’t interview DOs and if they do, it’s a very small number. It’s an uphill battle here but you are well situated to match at an academic program though T25 is a stretch in my opinion; and also a totally irrelevant target IMO given that you’ll get good training and research opportunities at so many of these programs on your list that aren’t considered T25

The definition of target safety and reach may vary person to person but I would say safety is near guaranteed interview, target is likely interview and reach would be low likelihood of interview. By those definitions I tend to agree pennsy upmc presby (not main program) and possibly brown and Dartmouth are more targets than reached though the last two could go either way. I would say it’s possible you’re overestimating your competitiveness though it also depends what DO school you’re coming from. Tufts may be a reach by not having many DO’s but it is not a better program than say BU Unc or UVA, and in fact, I’d move the latter 3 to reach and move tufts to target (unless they literally don’t look at DOs for some reason). Also why is Cornell the only NY program? There are several DO friendly academic/high ranked community programs in the nyc metro area. Good luck

 

[Deecee2DO]

I’ll start off by saying that you appear on paper at least to have an excellent CV and app, especially if you hit that 270+ on step 2. The problem with wanting T25 isn’t that you’re not a strong enough candidate; all else being equal you’re actually quite a strong candidate as I’m sure you realize. The issue as has been mentioned is the DO bias that still persists at many academic programs. Many won’t interview DOs and if they do, it’s a very small number. It’s an uphill battle here but you are well situated to match at an academic program though T25 is a stretch in my opinion; and also a totally irrelevant target IMO given that you’ll get good training and research opportunities at so many of these programs on your list that aren’t considered T25

The definition of target safety and reach may vary person to person but I would say safety is near guaranteed interview, target is likely interview and reach would be low likelihood of interview. By those definitions I tend to agree pennsy upmc presby (not main program) and possibly brown and Dartmouth are more targets than reached though the last two could go either way. I would say it’s possible you’re overestimating your competitiveness though it also depends what DO school you’re coming from. Tufts may be a reach by not having many DO’s but it is not a better program than say BU Unc or UVA, and in fact, I’d move the latter 3 to reach and move tufts to target (unless they literally don’t look at DOs for some reason). Also why is Cornell the only NY program? There are several DO friendly academic/high ranked community programs in the nyc metro area. Good luck

thanks! Tufts has no DOs and UNC BU and UVA do thats why I had the latter three as targets-i figure any IM program with DOs id have a solid shot. Also idk why i have cornell on there lmao I dont wanna go there at all so I apologize for putting that on there. I want to stay away friom NYC. Also dont want to apply to any community programs at all (only academic/uni). I also completely understand that i may not match T25 because I am a DO but I at least want to try (Duke Yale or Vandy would be my dream but I realize its a huge stretch). As far as what DO school I come from I got to RowanSOM which I would say is one of the more established programs but wouldnt that be irrelevant since to most academic programs DO=DO=DO lol

 

[whoknows2012]

thanks! Tufts has no DOs and UNC BU and UVA do thats why I had the latter three as targets-i figure any IM program with DOs id have a solid shot. Also idk why i have cornell on there lmao I dont wanna go there at all so I apologize for putting that on there. I want to stay away friom NYC. Also dont want to apply to any community programs at all (only academic/uni). I also completely understand that i may not match T25 because I am a DO but I at least want to try (Duke Yale or Vandy would be my dream but I realize its a huge stretch)

Makes sense. That’s fine re; nyc was just curious bc Cornell was on there. It’s true that for all intents and purposes, you have a shot at any program that has DO’s. That suggests they won’t screen you but keep in mind how academic programs in particular may use filters; it’s not necessarily all applicants with ->230 for example, it actually could be all applicants >230 from certain programs. They use filters differently for different types of applicants so just to keep in mind for accurate expectations

 

[Deecee2DO]

Makes sense. That’s fine re; nyc was just curious bc Cornell was on there. It’s true that for all intents and purposes, you have a shot at any program that has DO’s. That suggests they won’t screen you but keep in mind how academic programs in particular may use filters; it’s not necessarily all applicants with ->230 for example, it actually could be all applicants >230 from certain programs. They use filters differently for different types of applicants so just to keep in mind for accurate expectations

Thanks! Id imagine the best way to increase my chances is to keep pumping out pubs, try and get my PI from wake to make calls on my behalf, and try and do Sub-Is at my reaches crush them and get letters from them? The latter Obviously easier said than done but I will do whatever it takes. My PI is very well connected in academics and said he would make calls if he needs to

 

[the argus]

Thanks for weighing in but how are Brown and Dartmouth reaches there are DOs who match there every year? UNC and BU also have DOs and UVA has matched DOs in the past 3 years. With 250s steps all honors in third year and first author research if there are DOs on the roster then id imagine I have a pretty good shot at Brown Dart UNC Pennsy BU and UVA? Also Pennsy is not HUP its the easier of the two and they have many DOs there several from my DO school (2 matched there last year). @AlteredScale where you at

I guess it boils down to how we define reach versus target. I realize some of the programs I labeled as reach have a few DOs, but they are few and far between. So I would label all of those as a reach, not impossible, but also not likely. Programs that regularly take DOs I would label as target programs.


For some of the programs you identified, on my review of their websites here is the numbers of DOs they currently list.

Brown - 2 DO out of 90 residents
Dartmouth - 4 DO out of 58 residents
UNC - 2 DO out of 119 residents
BU - 2 DO out of 138 residents
UVA - 0 DO out of 96 residents

total - 10 DO out of 501 residents - 2% (1.4% without including dartmouth)


As I stated above, you have a strong application and very well may be one of the few DOs who end up in these programs. I hope you are. But I would consider these "reach" programs, i.e. programs where you have a shot but overall unlikely. I wouldn't consider programs where you have basically zero chance (Stanford, etc) as reaches, I would consider those a donation to ERAS.

This is in no way meant as being disrespectful to you or your application, just realistically looking at the numbers.

 

[Deecee2DO]

I guess it boils down to how we define reach versus target. I realize some of the programs I labeled as reach have a few DOs, but they are few and far between. So I would label all of those as a reach, not impossible, but also not likely. Programs that regularly take DOs I would label as target programs.


For some of the programs you identified, on my review of their websites here is the numbers of DOs they currently list.

Brown - 2 DO out of 90 residents
Dartmouth - 4 DO out of 58 residents
UNC - 2 DO out of 119 residents
BU - 2 DO out of 138 residents
UVA - 0 DO out of 96 residents

total - 10 DO out of 501 residents - 2% (1.4% without including dartmouth)


As I stated above, you have a strong application and very well may be one of the few DOs who end up in these programs. I hope you are. But I would consider these "reach" programs, i.e. programs where you have a shot but overall unlikely. I wouldn't consider programs where you have basically zero chance (Stanford, etc) as reaches, I would consider those a donation to ERAS.

This is in no way meant as being disrespectful to you or your application, just realistically looking at the numbers.

I mean that kinda sucks with how hard I worked that even the places with few DOs (UNC BU Brown and Dartmouth) are reaches for me since I am not sure what they had that I dont at this point. Damn that sucks haha I want namebrand ill be completely honest and Ive worked my ass off to have a strong shot there so to hear they are reaches kills me

 

[whoknows2012]

I mean that kinda sucks with how hard I worked that even the places with few DOs (UNC BU Brown and Dartmouth) are reaches for me since I am not sure what they had that I dont at this point. Damn that sucks haha I want namebrand ill be completely honest and Ive worked my ass off to have a strong shot there so to hear they are reaches kills me

If you want name brand I’ll put in another plug to at least apply to nyc metro programs and it’ll give you more options. Alternatively if you already know you’ll hate it or really don’t want to even give it a shot, then ignore the programs listed below. Also re; only applying to academic programs-Cleveland clinic FL Mayo az and Florida and Pennsy are academic affiliated community programs. Also I should’ve said if you meant UPMC main campus that’s definitely reach, not target.

NY/NJ programs worth looking at
Northwell/hofstra
Stonybrook
Monte
Rutgers/RWJ
Sinai west

 

[Deecee2DO]

If you want name brand I’ll put in another plug to at least apply to nyc metro programs and it’ll give you more options. Alternatively if you already know you’ll hate it or really don’t want to even give it a shot, then ignore the programs listed below. Also re; only applying to academic programs-Cleveland clinic FL Mayo az and Florida and Pennsy are academic affiliated community programs. Also I should’ve said if you meant UPMC main campus that’s definitely reach, not target.

NY/NJ programs worth looking at
Northwell/hofstra
Stonybrook
Monte
Rutgers/RWJ
Sinai west

Are those namebrand? I kind of want to get out of NY/NJ but would consider RWJ however they never take DOs and the PD i heard is super super anti DO from several kids who are current MS4s about to graduate. They told me RWJ class avg Step is like 215-225 and some of kids at my school with 250s didnt even get interviews kinda sad but its reality. Didnt know that about Mayo Pennsy and CC so thanks for letting me know! Its crazy how much being a DO sucks in my position feels like all my hard work was a waste when im more likely to match at academic places where DOs have worse stats than me. I truly was under the impression that Brown UVA UNC BU and Dartmouth were targets (especially Dartmouth and Brown since tons of kids in the class above me that had strong apps with 250s got interviews at both but didnt rank them high)

 

[whoknows2012]

Are those namebrand? I kind of want to get out of NY/NJ but would consider RWJ however they never take DOs and the PD i heard is super super anti DO from several kids who are current MS4s about to graduate. They told me RWJ class avg Step is like 215-225 and some of kids at my school with 250s didnt even get interviews kinda sad but its reality. Didnt know that about Mayo Pennsy and CC so thanks for letting me know! Its crazy how much being a DO sucks in my position feels like all my hard work was a waste when im more likely to match at academic places where DOs have worse stats than me. I truly was under the impression that Brown UVA UNC BU and Dartmouth were targets (especially Dartmouth and Brown since tons of kids in the class above me that had strong apps with 250s got interviews at both but didnt rank them high)

On the name brand question it would give you more opportunities to match into competitive fellowships at least more so than 1/2 of your target programs (talking specifically about Monte, Rutgers, northwell in particular). Re Rutgers not sure how they would know the class step average given that it is not something that is public knowledge but 🤷‍♂️. I was chief resident and was directly involved in recruitment and interviewing at a large academic program and though I could probably estimate I wouldn’t have the slightest idea what the step 1 average was of the program.

I’m sorry that even know DOs still have to deal with this bias. It’s real, it’s unfair and it sucks. On an uplifting note, it should be noted that once you do get your foot in the door at an academic program the bias which still exists in fellowship training diminishes. Eventually what you’ve done most recently starts to matter more.

 

[ShuperNewbie]

Monte's def name brand (at least on the same level as UVA/Dartmouth/Brown) but I don't know if they take DOs? Brown for sure takes DOs as does Dartmouth.

DO schools on the most part have a huge regional bias as I'm sure you know (for instance Jefferson will be more likely to take PCOM grads because it's right next door). But I think Rowan does tend to send folks everywhere. That said, a lot of competitive fellowships (even top competitive fellowships) definitely take DOs so depending on your long term goals, you might want to focus on that. For instance, I know of a few DOs that match into top heme/onc places because the program director at their home medicine program knows the program director at institution XYZ and can vouch for them (e.g. UTH PD knows the PD at MD anderson quite well, Temple knows Fox Chase folks quite well, USF knows Moffitt people quite well, etc etc etc). Honestly often times it just takes a phone call and a powerful advocate to make all the difference, so you might as well set yourself up for that as best you can.

 

[whoknows2012]

Monte's def name brand (at least on the same level as UVA/Dartmouth/Brown) but I don't know if they take DOs? Brown for sure takes DOs as does Dartmouth.

DO schools on the most part have a huge regional bias as I'm sure you know (for instance Jefferson will be more likely to take PCOM grads because it's right next door). But I think Rowan does tend to send folks everywhere. That said, a lot of competitive fellowships (even top competitive fellowships) definitely take DOs so depending on your long term goals, you might want to focus on that. For instance, I know of a few DOs that match into top heme/onc places because the program director at their home medicine program knows the program director at institution XYZ and can vouch for them (e.g. UTH PD knows the PD at MD anderson quite well, Temple knows Fox Chase folks quite well, USF knows Moffitt people quite well, etc etc etc). Honestly often times it just takes a phone call and a powerful advocate to make all the difference, so you might as well set yourself up for that as best you can.

Monte does take DOs though it’s only a few (ie 1-3 per year).When I was there the first year we opened up to interviewing DOs we invited 10 for interviews ranked 5 and I believe 2 matched?

 

[Deecee2DO]

Monte's def name brand (at least on the same level as UVA/Dartmouth/Brown) but I don't know if they take DOs? Brown for sure takes DOs as does Dartmouth.

DO schools on the most part have a huge regional bias as I'm sure you know (for instance Jefferson will be more likely to take PCOM grads because it's right next door). But I think Rowan does tend to send folks everywhere. That said, a lot of competitive fellowships (even top competitive fellowships) definitely take DOs so depending on your long term goals, you might want to focus on that. For instance, I know of a few DOs that match into top heme/onc places because the program director at their home medicine program knows the program director at institution XYZ and can vouch for them (e.g. UTH PD knows the PD at MD anderson quite well, Temple knows Fox Chase folks quite well, USF knows Moffitt people quite well, etc etc etc). Honestly often times it just takes a phone call and a powerful advocate to make all the difference, so you might as well set yourself up for that as best you can.

Yeah I think Dartmouth and Brown some of my favorite places. Ive talked with many of the DO residents there now and actually very few of them had any research surprisingly. 1 poster or like a case report they wrote up but thats it with like 240s or 250s steps. But yeah Rowan had several students interview at Brown and Dartmouth this past year but they all said Brown was too far and Dartmouth too remote and cold lol plus rowan students are known to stay in the tri state area we had like 2 students match NJMS and 6 match at Cooper

Monte does take DOs though it’s only a few (ie 1-3 per year).When I was there the first year we opened up to interviewing DOs we invited 10 for interviews ranked 5 and I believe 2 matched?

Yeah Monte is a strong program I think ill add it to my list

 

[Deecee2DO]

Question-Doing auditions in IM subspecialties (GI, cards etc) at reaches because they don't offer a Sub-I in IM helpful at all? Or waste of time. Normally sub-Is arent big in IM and I know that but as a DO applying to competitive programs who normally don't take DOs a Sub-I and getting a letter from it is probably the best shot I have at any of these programs

 

[sunshinefl]

Question-Doing auditions in IM subspecialties (GI, cards etc) at reaches because they don't offer a Sub-I in IM helpful at all? Or waste of time. Normally sub-Is arent big in IM and I know that but as a DO applying to competitive programs who normally don't take DOs a Sub-I and getting a letter from it is probably the best shot I have at any of these programs

I think so yes as long as you’re still working on the service with IM residents and/or IM subspecialty faculty

 

[sipping_cipro]

School: Top 20
Step 1: 243
Research: Multiple first author papers
Clinical grades: Mostly HP with 2 random honors (HP in IM)
AOA: eliminated at my institution

Man.... 3rd year was frustrating. HPs all around. Do I have a shot at places like UTSW, WashU, Duke, Michigan, or Vanderbilt? Or do my clinical grades place me squarely at a place like Ohio, UVA, UPMC, BU, and Cleveland clinic.

 

[Deecee2DO]

School: Top 20
Step 1: 243
Research: Multiple first author papers
Clinical grades: Mostly HP with 2 random honors (HP in IM)

Man.... 3rd year was frustrating. HPs all around. Do I have a shot at places like UTSW, WashU, Duke, Michigan, or Vanderbilt? Or do my clinical grades place me squarely at a place like Ohio, UVA, UPMC, BU, and Cleveland clinic.

Good question lol regardless all i know is being at a Top 20 med school goes a long way in top tier IM so keep your head up! Are you AOA?

 

[Adjet]

School: Top 20
Step 1: 243
Research: Multiple first author papers
Clinical grades: Mostly HP with 2 random honors (HP in IM)

Man.... 3rd year was frustrating. HPs all around. Do I have a shot at places like UTSW, WashU, Duke, Michigan, or Vanderbilt? Or do my clinical grades place me squarely at a place like Ohio, UVA, UPMC, BU, and Cleveland clinic.

I think you should still be able to get some of the names in the first group

 

[sipping_cipro]

Good question lol regardless all i know is being at a Top 20 med school goes a long way in top tier IM so keep your head up! Are you AOA?

My school eliminated AOA, so no one in the class gets it... idk if this is a helpful or hurtful thing. Maybe helpful in my case because I doubt I would've got it based on my clinical grades

 

[jackinabox1]

School: Top 20
Step 1: 243
Research: Multiple first author papers
Clinical grades: Mostly HP with 2 random honors (HP in IM)
AOA: eliminated at my institution

Man.... 3rd year was frustrating. HPs all around. Do I have a shot at places like UTSW, WashU, Duke, Michigan, or Vanderbilt? Or do my clinical grades place me squarely at a place like Ohio, UVA, UPMC, BU, and Cleveland clinic.

Good chance at the former given pedigree, but 2nd tier also very likely. Make sure you prep well for interviews and do well on step 2. IM is likely gonna be more competitive with the EM people shunting over. Just FYI, Cleveland Clinic is probably a tier below the rest (still good but lot of controversy)

 

[Deecee2DO]

Good chance at the former given pedigree, but 2nd tier also very likely. Make sure you prep well for interviews and do well on step 2. IM is likely gonna be more competitive with the EM people shunting over. Just FYI, Cleveland Clinic is probably a tier below the rest (still good but lot of controversy)

IM is gonna be more competitive bc of EM job market? that sounds like a stretch

 

[aafisahar]

My school eliminated AOA, so no one in the class gets it... idk if this is a helpful or hurtful thing. Maybe helpful in my case because I doubt I would've got it based on my clinical grades

at least a few years ago, the schools that eliminated AOA weren't schools that needed it in the first place

 

[orthomyxostudent]

Probably few low score ones here but any guidance is appreciated!
Med school: Top Tier DO?
Quartile: 3rd
Step 1: 218
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Clinical grades: Honored 2 shelfs FM and IM
LORs: 2-3 strong letters
Research: 1 publication and 2 other research experiences at top university
Extracurriculars: Barely any.
Red flags: none

From the East Coast so:
Wake Forest
FAU
University of Miami
University of FL
Palmetto Gen Hosp
Mayo Clinic Jackson
Cleveland Clinic FL
Mount Sinai Fl
USC
Carolinas Medical Center
Cape Fear Valley NC
UNC
EVMS
VCU
Temple University
Albert Einstein
St Luke's Penn
UPMC
Thomas Jefferson
GWU
Medstar Georgetown
Virginia Mason
Spokane Medical Center
Case Western

How many more should I apply to? Thank you.

 

[the argus]

Probably few low score ones here but any guidance is appreciated!
Med school: Top Tier DO?
Quartile: 3rd
Step 1: 218
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Clinical grades: Honored 2 shelfs FM and IM
LORs: 2-3 strong letters
Research: 1 publication and 2 other research experiences at top university
Extracurriculars: Barely any.
Red flags: none

From the East Coast so:
Wake Forest
FAU
University of Miami
University of FL
Palmetto Gen Hosp
Mayo Clinic Jackson
Cleveland Clinic FL
Mount Sinai Fl
USC
Carolinas Medical Center
Cape Fear Valley NC
UNC
EVMS
VCU
Temple University
Albert Einstein
St Luke's Penn
UPMC
Thomas Jefferson
GWU
Medstar Georgetown
Virginia Mason
Spokane Medical Center
Case Western

How many more should I apply to? Thank you.

Not to be a downer and not trying to be rude, but judging by your list you think you are way more competitive than you actually will be. You are a DO (there's not really such a thing as a "top tier" DO school), in the bottom half of your class, with a below average step 1 score, and no extracurriculars.

You have no chance at places like UNC, UPMC, Thomas Jefferson, Case Western, Wake Forest. Places like Georgetown, GWU, VCU, USC, etc are almost assuredly also out of reach. The lowest tier university programs should be your reaches, your targets should be good community programs.

Scoring very well on step 2 will help your application. Try to find an extracurricular or some other activity that shows you are super passionate about internal medicine (do multiple sub-I, etc).

 

[gutonc]

Probably few low score ones here but any guidance is appreciated!
Med school: Top Tier DO?
Quartile: 3rd
Step 1: 218
Step 2: haven't taken yet
Clinical grades: Honored 2 shelfs FM and IM
LORs: 2-3 strong letters
Research: 1 publication and 2 other research experiences at top university
Extracurriculars: Barely any.
Red flags: none

From the East Coast so:
Wake Forest
FAU
University of Miami
University of FL
Palmetto Gen Hosp
Mayo Clinic Jackson
Cleveland Clinic FL
Mount Sinai Fl
USC
Carolinas Medical Center
Cape Fear Valley NC
UNC
EVMS
VCU
Temple University
Albert Einstein
St Luke's Penn
UPMC
Thomas Jefferson
GWU
Medstar Georgetown
Virginia Mason
Spokane Medical Center
Case Western

How many more should I apply to? Thank you.

That's a weird-ass list, but probably driven by a combination of "grandma programs", places you're going to be competitive at and some apparent random googling (VM, Spokane?!?).

No: Case, UNC, Jeff, UPMC, Einstein (if it's AECOM, if it's Philly, ignore this)
Reach: Miami, Wake, VCU, Temple, UF (depends which one)
Others are all reasonable. You should have ~30 places and if you score 15-20 interviews, you'll probably be fine.

 

[FrechToastFries]

School: DO school (an older, good one, if that's a thing)
Step 1: 23X
Level 1: 6XX
Step 2: not taken yet, hoping to get an avg or above avg score, which is around 240s?
Class rank: top 1/3
Clinicals: Straight passes, no honors (really bummed about this but it's whatever now). Great comments and evals.
LORs: Expecting at least one really strong IM one, and others should be good too. Planning on trying to score another strong letter from my Sub-I in July.
Red flags: none
Research: 1 pub, 1 first author manuscript submitted, 2 other manuscripts in the works (hopefully submitted for pub soon), 4 poster presentations, 1 oral presentation
ECs: Med school tutor, a variety of volunteering (clinical and non-clinical) and mentorship involvement, club leadership position, some unique MedEd centered experiences

My goal is to match into an academic program in Florida that will set me up for fellowship opportunities (GI, cards, or pulm/crit). I will apply broadly but probably will apply to all Florida programs and go from there. I would like to avoid HCA if possible.

Target/top/reach programs in Florida that I've been looking at so far (do I have a shot at these places? I understand I might not, but I honestly have no idea):
U Miami (Jackson Memorial)
U Florida Gainesville
U Florida Jax
U South Florida Morsani
Mayo Clinic Jax

Other Florida programs:
Cleveland Clinic Florida
Florida Atlantic University
UCF Orlando (HCA)
OrlandoHealth
AdventHealth Orlando
Florida State University
University of Miami/JFK Medical Center (HCA)

Non-Florida Programs:
This is where I'm struggling, how do I find out which programs to apply to in the South East area that I'm competitive for? Would appreciate some guidance.


-----

I would love to match somewhere like UM, UF, or USF. I just don't know how competitive I am for those places. If I'm not competitive for them, what can I do to increase my chances of matching? I've applied for auditions/aways at all of them but have yet to hear anything back yet.

What other programs in Florida are good for me to target?

Thanks!!

 

[GregoryCasa]

Hi all,

Hope you guys are doing alright despite the pandemic craziness.

I'm a US-IMG, studied at a top 5 medical school of a non-English-speaking Western European country, low 250s Step 1, mid 250s Step 2, top quartile of my class. I have all ECFMG requirements done, and will graduate June of next year. Been outside the US since I was very young and had to stay for family reasons. I'm a little bit non-traditional as I started working in another specialized STEM field before high school and have been all through medical school to support myself.

I'll be doing two US rotations this summer, one in IM and one in Psych.

I'm hoping to match IM-Psych or, failing that, Categorical IM, have strong reasons for going into both.

Could anyone please lend a hand with the following questions?

1) How many applications should I approximately send out, given my stats?

2) Is two months of US clinical experience enough to be reasonably competitive?

3) Being on a fairly tight budget, is it worth shelling out the extra money/time/risk (e.g. testing positive for COVID before returning) to do another rotation in the US during the summer? Another rotation wouldn't leave me penniless, but it would certainly leave me in a much tighter spot finanacially, as I also wouldn't be able to work during that time. Will not having a 3rd US letter of recommendation break my application?

4) How valuable are LoRs from my country, given the pandemic? I will have one from the chief of Medicine of a major hospital in my city, another from an IM attending I worked with for a long time, and another from a Psych attending.

Thank you!

 

[fldoctorgirl]

School: DO school (an older, good one, if that's a thing)
Step 1: 23X
Level 1: 6XX
Step 2: not taken yet, hoping to get an avg or above avg score, which is around 240s?
Class rank: top 1/3
Clinicals: Straight passes, no honors (really bummed about this but it's whatever now). Great comments and evals.
LORs: Expecting at least one really strong IM one, and others should be good too. Planning on trying to score another strong letter from my Sub-I in July.
Red flags: none
Research: 1 pub, 1 first author manuscript submitted, 2 other manuscripts in the works (hopefully submitted for pub soon), 4 poster presentations, 1 oral presentation
ECs: Med school tutor, a variety of volunteering (clinical and non-clinical) and mentorship involvement, club leadership position, some unique MedEd centered experiences

My goal is to match into an academic program in Florida that will set me up for fellowship opportunities (GI, cards, or pulm/crit). I will apply broadly but probably will apply to all Florida programs and go from there. I would like to avoid HCA if possible.

Target/top/reach programs in Florida that I've been looking at so far (do I have a shot at these places? I understand I might not, but I honestly have no idea):
U Miami (Jackson Memorial)
U Florida Gainesville
U Florida Jax
U South Florida Morsani
Mayo Clinic Jax

Other Florida programs:
Cleveland Clinic Florida
Florida Atlantic University
UCF Orlando (HCA)
OrlandoHealth
AdventHealth Orlando
Florida State University
University of Miami/JFK Medical Center (HCA)

Non-Florida Programs:
This is where I'm struggling, how do I find out which programs to apply to in the South East area that I'm competitive for? Would appreciate some guidance.


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I would love to match somewhere like UM, UF, or USF. I just don't know how competitive I am for those places. If I'm not competitive for them, what can I do to increase my chances of matching? I've applied for auditions/aways at all of them but have yet to hear anything back yet.

What other programs in Florida are good for me to target?

Thanks!!

Looks like we're targeting the same region/programs. Good luck friend! Maybe we'll run into each other on the trail.

 

[FrechToastFries]

Looks like we're targeting the same region/programs. Good luck friend! Maybe we'll run into each other on the trail.

Yup! Good luck to you as well! Maybe we might not run into each other if interviews are virtual this year haha.

Looking forward to getting some feed back on this though. Not sure how competitive I am for some of these programs and would like to know so I can plan accordingly.

 

[sunshinefl]

Yup! Good luck to you as well! Maybe we might not run into each other if interviews are virtual this year haha.

Looking forward to getting some feed back on this though. Not sure how competitive I am for some of these programs and would like to know so I can plan accordingly.

Shoot your shot. It’s possible. But I wouldn’t count on them. You definitely need to expand your field of programs to include some out of state. Florida has like 38 IM programs or something like that, but many of those are HCA which you said you’d like to avoid. I recommend expanding your search to good community and some university outside of Florida.

 

[FrechToastFries]

Shoot your shot. It’s possible. But I wouldn’t count on them. You definitely need to expand your field of programs to include some out of state. Florida has like 38 IM programs or something like that, but many of those are HCA which you said you’d like to avoid. I recommend expanding your search to good community and some university outside of Florida.

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I think that will be my plan, to apply to university and strong community programs outside Florida as well. Do you think my app is weak for those particular programs, is that why you said don't count on them? or do you just mean I should apply to more programs to be safe? I def think I will be applying to 60+ programs, just don't know which ones yet outside Florida.

 

[sunshinefl]

Thanks for the feedback. Yeah I think that will be my plan, to apply to university and strong community programs outside Florida as well. Do you think my app is weak for those particular programs, is that why you said don't count on them? or do you just mean I should apply to more programs to be safe? I def think I will be applying to 60+ programs, just don't know which ones yet outside Florida.

Both. For a DO I think it’s not going to get a lot of bites from them. I didn’t get any bites from instate university programs, and the people who I know in my class that matched university IM instate were like super honors top of class with very very high test scores.

 

[the argus]

School: DO school (an older, good one, if that's a thing)
Step 1: 23X
Level 1: 6XX
Step 2: not taken yet, hoping to get an avg or above avg score, which is around 240s?
Class rank: top 1/3
Clinicals: Straight passes, no honors (really bummed about this but it's whatever now). Great comments and evals.
LORs: Expecting at least one really strong IM one, and others should be good too. Planning on trying to score another strong letter from my Sub-I in July.
Red flags: none
Research: 1 pub, 1 first author manuscript submitted, 2 other manuscripts in the works (hopefully submitted for pub soon), 4 poster presentations, 1 oral presentation
ECs: Med school tutor, a variety of volunteering (clinical and non-clinical) and mentorship involvement, club leadership position, some unique MedEd centered experiences

My goal is to match into an academic program in Florida that will set me up for fellowship opportunities (GI, cards, or pulm/crit). I will apply broadly but probably will apply to all Florida programs and go from there. I would like to avoid HCA if possible.

Target/top/reach programs in Florida that I've been looking at so far (do I have a shot at these places? I understand I might not, but I honestly have no idea):
U Miami (Jackson Memorial)
U Florida Gainesville
U Florida Jax
U South Florida Morsani
Mayo Clinic Jax

Other Florida programs:
Cleveland Clinic Florida
Florida Atlantic University
UCF Orlando (HCA)
OrlandoHealth
AdventHealth Orlando
Florida State University
University of Miami/JFK Medical Center (HCA)

Non-Florida Programs:
This is where I'm struggling, how do I find out which programs to apply to in the South East area that I'm competitive for? Would appreciate some guidance.


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I would love to match somewhere like UM, UF, or USF. I just don't know how competitive I am for those places. If I'm not competitive for them, what can I do to increase my chances of matching? I've applied for auditions/aways at all of them but have yet to hear anything back yet.

What other programs in Florida are good for me to target?

Thanks!!

Your application seems pretty good assuming you do well on step 2 and your LOR are strong. While some may be reaches (UM), you should apply to every program out of the 41 in Florida that you'd be willing to go to. Is your desire to avoid HCA stronger than your desire to stay in Florida?

Also, is your desire to match into one of the more competitive IM subspecialties stronger than your desire to stay in Florida? If so, then you should definitely apply broadly to low and mid tier university programs out of state. While it's certainly possible to match into competitive fellowships from community programs, coming from a name brand university residency definitely gives a leg up. Top tier places are likely out of reach for you (Duke, Emory, UNC, Vanderbilt, etc), but otherwise apply to every university program in every state you're willing to move to.

Plan to spend a couple thousand dollars on your applications. It's a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend on medical school and what your future salary will be (I make $2000/shift doing hospitalist moonlighting during fellowship).

No one can predict why some people get invites at certain places and others do not. Sometimes it's just as random as the mood of the person reviewing your application on a given day. Such is life. Control what you can control (step scores, LORs, personal statement, etc), apply broadly, and let the cards fall where they may. Residency interview season is stressful enough, don't add more stress worrying about things that are out of your control.