Okami WW Game Thread

[kaydubs]

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I’ll start keeping my votes in a separate post with a tag for you.

Thank you!!

 

[Crayola227]

The point samac was making was saying it could be AI because villagers typically don't care about symmetry in all categories.

But why would a wolf want to be perfectly symmetrical when perfect symmetry looks like artificial construction?

 

[Truenamer]

Didn't know they were a frequent misyeet for it. They are the definition of LHF then. ****.

Not sure I understand the hangup on Low Hanging Fruits from you this game. I associate you with a more "people need to be less precious about who they vote for and kill" attitude.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Even if we do count CYO though, that'd be a far cry from "misyeeted a lot" even given his small amount of games.

 

[Truenamer]

But why would a wolf want to be perfectly symmetrical when perfect symmetry looks like artificial construction?

She's saying that a wolf would subconsciously do it, not that they're doing it on purpose.

I think the idea is that when the groupings are fabricated, they're more likely to follow an inorganic construction. I don't know if I agree, because when I wolf I tend to put a lot of consideration into reads lists before I post them.

 

[Truenamer]

Even if we do count CYO though, that'd be a far cry from "misyeeted a lot" even given his small amount of games.

I agree, when you only have a handful of games you can't really be said to have a tendency towards anything (unless you've, like, played three games and been misyeeted three times, but that isn't the case here).

 

[Animal Midwife]

But why would a wolf want to be perfectly symmetrical when perfect symmetry looks like artificial construction?

Hyperawaress of trying not to TMI others tends to lead to reads like that. It's not a slam dunk theory by any means, but I've seen it happen on SDN, MU, and other sites I've played on.

 

[Crayola227]

It's not. I'm pretty sure she's not a wolf this game, or she would be more pushy towards others esp the noobs.

Yeah, thanks.

To be clear, not trying to get sus on samac for this. Just saying, the players I tend to incorrectly read as wolfy, I'm going to need to work out what they do that pings the wolfdar and why, if I'm going to learn their meta correctly and figure out what is and is not wolfy *for them.*

I disagree with a read based on, there's 3 people in each category. I could see a villager or the person in question if village, doing the same thing.

I mean, my list had groupings of two for each tier of sus. This game is all about comparisons so groupings are bound to occur. Even symmetrical ones.

 

[Crayola227]

The point samac was making was saying it could be AI because villagers typically don't care about symmetry in all categories.

I disagree because as a villager I sometimes challenge myself to have people in groupings and not to have too many or too few. I think even you would agree it would be a weakness of a villager list and villager thinking to have for example too many in the PoE and not enough in the villager pile, so I know that I have pushed myself to even the roster out in my groupings rather than try to have 2/3 roster in the POE for example.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I disagree because as a villager I sometimes challenge myself to have people in groupings and not to have too many or too few. I think even you would agree it would be a weakness of a villager list and villager thinking to have for example too many in the PoE and not enough in the villager pile, so I know that I have pushed myself to even the roster out in my groupings rather than try to have 2/3 roster in the POE for example.

I don't really care too much about grouping unless my POE has fewer members than there are wolves or if I have significantly more members than there are misyeets.

What I'm talking about here is having the same amount of players in wolf, neutral, and village reads though.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Most of the time, I don't group at all though because it has little utility to me in communicating my thoughts.

 

[Truenamer]

Alright, as promised, Big Oxy ISO. By big I mean this is basically all of his posts.

Spoiler: You better click on this, it took a while and my in-laws are visiting

Yeet Dubz

Spoiler

The last one I played: CYO where she stumped me

These posts plus another joking one are his thread entrance. Not actively wolfy in a vacuum, some people like to drop a vote and leave, but he added basically nothing to the mix after this vote until:

Sorry I really hate posting without being caught up but I'm trying to accept the fact that I'm just always going to be behind.

I'm about 10 pages behind working through the cray/AM argument. Feeling good about cray so far

Just a "sorry I'm behind" and the first comment on Cray.

I'm just trying to catch up 🥺

Another "sorry"

Sorry I think pressure votes tend to work better when people know they're being pressured

A reference to the fact that he's been away

Mostly was an actual apology for being absent/not even seeing until now

And another one

You're saying you were interested in others' reactions? Did you learn anything from them?

A light question, first thing other than the Cray comment that could be considered thread participation

I have to reread some things because I think I missed a lot while catching up.

I did think some of zenge/true's interactions were not v/v.

I get the zuri sus and they're in my POE but I'm not convinced they're wolfing

Second unit of thread participation, shading me and defending Zuri

I missed it in that game. Can you tell me what happened?

Normal clarifying question

Honestly feeling better today after reading their posts from last night. Wolfy side of neutral

Zuri defense, not village-reading but it stands out to me because of how little we're seeing from WO.

Decaffeinated oxy is thinking true but I want to reread end of D1 before committing

My gut still says that the zenge/true argument doesn't quite feel v/v. Plus he feels like he's really pushing for what could be easy misyeets with me and zuri

yeet true

No thread participation other than to pop in and join Zuri on my vote

But night kill wouldn't solely be up to you, right? Plus I think she seemed to be at least willing to consider you as a wolf so I don't even know that I believe your claim that you wouldn't N1 her

Interaction with me

Agreed. Does anyone here have a good track record reading Cray?

Cray interaction

I know this has been brought up a few times so while I can somewhat react in real-time: I get why you're wolf reading me but both of those are pretty normal for me

Defense of self

POE: True (obviously), Zuri, Visc
I think I feel ok about: Fluff, AM, Samac
Leaving neutrals as: Genny, Sporty, Cray

Cray I especially don't know what to do with because I keep finding that 50-70% of her posts I agree with and the rest make no sense to me

POE. Lots to read into this, will be important if he flips W.

Feels weird to have < 3 in POE with a game that likely has 2-3 wolves. After that I guess it just happens to be that I only feel distinctly comfy about 3 of y'all

Normal comment, I don't disagree, especially because my Village reads are the same three. A note that his village reads are basically the current 'consensus' village reads, which is a very safe route to take if wolfing.

Key takeaways:

1. Odd fixation on Cray. Talks about and responds to her more than anyone else.
2. Lots of talk about being busy/behind.
3. Started shading me fairly early.
4. Subtle Zuri defense, and now they're both on my vote. Maybe a bit clumsy if they're actually in a pack together, but could also be a pocketing/sheeping attempt by one or the other?

It's not a sure thing but I feel comfortable voting here today.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Just interesting analysis from a noob
I know people have already hammered that into the ground, but that post stuck out to me

Like in an AI way?

 

[Crayola227]

What would make me more wary of that list, than the groups, is how much it feels it has changed to reflect what seems to be current thread consensus. If we assume the current thread consensus is villager-thinking dominated, then the only way a wolf echoes that is if it's wrong somewhere or they are committed to deep bussing. Unless, if the consensus is correct then the player lining up with it may just be village themselves. In either case, I'm more concerned with, does this list reflect reality (as far as who is a wolf), and how did the player's (was thos Fluff?) list evolve to look like this, was is organic and real or wolf deceit?

I think what's totally valid, is that for one reason or another however you slice it, the list is raising concerns for being artificial. That read I agree with, even if it seems we are disagreeing about the math.

My own list had symmetry to it as well, but I feel confident pointing this out because I will be proven village this game, so my point will be proven that the issue isn't symmetry per se, but believability as I am saying.

 

[justafluff]

Alright, as promised, Big Oxy ISO. By big I mean this is basically all of his posts.

Spoiler: You better click on this, it took a while and my in-laws are visiting

These posts plus another joking one are his thread entrance. Not actively wolfy in a vacuum, some people like to drop a vote and leave, but he added basically nothing to the mix after this vote until:

Just a "sorry I'm behind" and the first comment on Cray.

Another "sorry"

A reference to the fact that he's been away

And another one

A light question, first thing other than the Cray comment that could be considered thread participation

Second unit of thread participation, shading me and defending Zuri

Normal clarifying question

Zuri defense, not village-reading but it stands out to me because of how little we're seeing from WO.


No thread participation other than to pop in and join Zuri on my vote

Interaction with me

Cray interaction

Defense of self

POE. Lots to read into this, will be important if he flips W.

Normal comment, I don't disagree, especially because my Village reads are the same three. A note that his village reads are basically the current 'consensus' village reads, which is a very safe route to take if wolfing.

Key takeaways:

1. Odd fixation on Cray. Talks about and responds to her more than anyone else.
2. Lots of talk about being busy/behind.
3. Started shading me fairly early.
4. Subtle Zuri defense, and now they're both on my vote. Maybe a bit clumsy if they're actually in a pack together, but could also be a pocketing/sheeping attempt by one or the other?

It's not a sure thing but I feel comfortable voting here today.

Thanks for that big wall of quotes True, what's interested to me, is that he defends Zuri for being noob but then also shades him, like in the post "I'm not sure if they're wolfing but still in my POE". But then why follow Zuri into voting for you if both you and Zuri are in the POE?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Thanks for that big wall of quotes True, what's interested to me, is that he defends Zuri for being noob but then also shades him, like in the post "I'm not sure if they're wolfing but still in my POE". But then why follow Zuri into voting for you if both you and Zuri are in the POE?

The other questions can be left for Oxy, but I do want to clarify that it was zuri who followed Oxy, not the other way around.

 

[Truenamer]

Thanks for that big wall of quotes True, what's interested to me, is that he defends Zuri for being noob but then also shades him, like in the post "I'm not sure if they're wolfing but still in my POE". But then why follow Zuri into voting for you if both you and Zuri are in the POE?

If they're both wolves, it's just Wo2 creating some distance while still agreeing with and supporting Zuri.

If WO2 is a wolf, it's him keeping Zuri in the "to be misyeeted later" pile while using him to try and start a wagon on me for now.

If they're both villagers, well, they're both going to be disappointed when I eventually flip.

 

[Truenamer]

Oh and @WorthlessOxygen I figure I should tag you if I'm going to ISO you

 

[SportPonies]

Like in an AI way?

In a “I want to look at this later” way

 

[Animal Midwife]

In a “I want to look at this later” way

How much later?

 

[SportPonies]

How much later?

Idk, I’m tired and have charts to do

 

[Animal Midwife]

Idk, I’m tired and have charts to do

So it's not tied to any specific game event?

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

Its true, though that's that's their playstyle, and get misyeeted for that a lot. But they haven't played that many games.

I don't think I've ever been a misyeet? Frequently shaded for sure. Village vigged once

 

[SportPonies]

So it's not tied to any specific game event?

I don’t understand what you’re asking

 

[Animal Midwife]

I don’t understand what you’re asking

I'm curious if the post is interesting because it clarifies on other players you're thinking about.

 

[Crayola227]

Not sure I understand the hangup on Low Hanging Fruits from you this game. I associate you with a more "people need to be less precious about who they vote for and kill" attitude.

The latter is what I aspire to be.

My hang up about LHF is basically the same issue that is faced by villagers in every game, which is the difficulty reading LHF correctly, this includes the ghosty players, noobs, the perpetual sketchmeisters, and the like. This is complicated by the fact that wolves can *be* those players and then there's the WIFOM of that, and the fact that wolves will also push those yeets or even stay off those wagons while village gets its hands dirty. Admittedly thinking about the game from a lens of LHF is maybe a different analysis style. It's something I'm applying as a villager because of it's utility in how I've used it as a wolf. Anything that I observe about wolf tendencies I will try to flip on its head as a villager to hunt for wolves.

This is another reason that I say that wolf experience helps a villager hunt. So when you're wolfing, it is important to try to do it as well as you can. Sometimes the instinct is to throw one's hands up and say, it's too hard, it's too different from villaging. But mastering wolf tactics and wolf thinking can only up your village game. In theory lol.

Keep in mind several games I've been involved in revolved around correctly reading players like myself, cubs, and others in this vein. Recognizing who the juicy misyeet targets are and who is pushing it in a wolfy way (as opposed to misguided villagers) can be a crucial way of identifying the real bad guys.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I think Stranger things? They had a salt yeet for DubZ but I didn't play that one. I remember them signing up for one game and then getting modkilled (maybe BoWWling?) They may have made it to end game in our noob game but not sure. @WorthlessOxygen

This is all correct. Dubz vigged me in CYO, early mod kill in bowwling, end game night kill in noob game.

I think the only other game I played was globetwwoting and that was a village stomp?

 

[SportPonies]

I'm curious if the post is interesting because it clarifies on other players you're thinking about.

Oh. I think it’ll be interesting to evaluate with more flips, but no, I haven’t thought about it deeper than that. Just noting it for now.

 

[justafluff]

The other questions can be left for Oxy, but I do want to clarify that it was zuri who followed Oxy, not the other way around.

Oh oops that's what I get for reading backwards

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I don't really care too much about grouping unless my POE has fewer members than there are wolves or if I have significantly more members than there are misyeets.

What I'm talking about here is having the same amount of players in wolf, neutral, and village reads though.

I somewhat get the argument but we have 9 players and probably 2-3 wolves. The groups almost have to be roughly even +/- 1

 

[Animal Midwife]

I somewhat get the argument but we have 9 players and probably 2-3 wolves. The groups almost have to be roughly even +/- 1

It's not a necessity. You can have increasingly accurate listings straight up to (the uber rare one of) having both affiliations only in their respective categories (meaning no neutrals).

 

[justafluff]

So, Zuri is in your POE @WorthlessOxygen but then, you feel like you and him are both LHF and that True is taking advantage of that? If True is wolfing, who else is wolfing with him? Cause Zuri is also voting True

 

[zuriburi]

Good morning! Sorry for the delayed entrance to the thread, there was a ton to catch up on in wolfchat.

Sorry in advance for the mega post, just wanted to lay out my case against true in full. It starts with this joke. Yeah I get it’s a joke, but it feels more like the kind of joke you’d make as a wolf to throw some chaos into the mix than a village joking at the idea of being a wolf.

I was going to go for a salt yeet but after reading I have a better one:

Yeet Zenge

so this is still very early and he’s following up on my initial post but without any rationale...

Ah, missed Zuri's vote.

Eggcellent, pressure works better when there's real pressure.

And then here he claims to have missed my vote? But I think I was the only one on zenge at this point and I get I hadn’t learned to vote as clearly yet but it seems unlikely that you’d missi it when there was one page to read. Anyway, shrugs it off and moves on to solid egg puns. That’s not wolfy, I think it’s actually pretty well eggxecuted. (though Actually now that I’m hear thinking about eggs, the thing that initially made me vote zenge was responding to his good eggs comment which I misinterpreted as a wolf pocketing, but it seems like if true missed my vote eggs might be less on his mind.)

Zenge's early posts are making my nose tickle and I want to see how he responds to votes on him.

This is one of a long line of true holding onto the zenge vote without ever giving a real reason.

There's no one big red flag, just some combination of this stuff:


feels a little... off

There’s a bunch of quotes here that are all just kinda random and I don’t know just scrambling a bunch of quotes together without making a case about any one of them feels like something you’d do if you were trying to put in the work to look like a villager without actually wolf hunting.

We are still in the midst of the reaction

Impure doesn't mean un-valuable

Also I need a little time to form a clear opinion, and writing it down prematurely might affect my thought process.

Sure, but Zenge is smart; it's not like he doesn't know that an early vote on D1 is either a joke or to see a reaction or both.

But Dubz, third time's the charm

at this point it seems like true is just stalling for time holding onto the reaction test while enduring hard-boiled pressure from DubZ, which I think ultimately led true to crack and nk DubZ while trying to cover for it with some nighttime banter.

Minor aside:

I should be looking for 3 wolves, right?

2/12 is 16.66% (repeating) which feels low, and 3/12 is 25% which feels slightly high but within reason.

this strikes me as a feggned ignorance of the number of wolves… it doesn’t seem like a high priority to figure out and the extra effort here in calculating the proportion feels over easy analysis of this detail for d1.

The important thing to remember is that I am always a good and noble villager

to be fair and include the sunny side up along with my suspicions this struck me as a pretty normal joke, uneggceptional.

This is what I was looking for, for the record. His initial posts were just a little... chattier and higher energy than I'm used to from D1 Zenge, and I wanted to pursue that.

yolking himself to any leggitimate suspicion of zenge to reinforce the misyeet

Don't have enough clear thoughts to make a colored list, but I've got a few clumps in my head.

Zenge is still feeling nose-tickly enough that I can't quite bring myself to unvote him, even though I'm enjoyed his activity and banter. I always like when people are posting and having fun and I don't want to punish that with a vote, but... vibes

Most folks are still in the wobbly yellow camp, especially people like WOxy who haven't been on thread much. Zuri is here but I've liked his posts so far. Fluff feels like actual-village-fluff right now, not wolf-fluff-but-I'm-saying-village-fluff-because-I'm-also-a-wolf. Other notable wobbly-yellow people are you and Sporty.

As for folks who've accumulated enough points to be light green, it's just AM (85-95% chance to be village by my calculations) and Cray. Cray feels wild but... not in a wolfy way.

Yeah, I acknowledge that my previous sign of "scum-Zenge" is being a little quieter and more blendy. But he also knows that people have that perception of him...

I'm not married to my vote on him, he's just my best guess. And since I don't have PSV or Stoat to sheep, I have to sheep myself, and I actually have a decent D1 track record.

Been considering, and I think I'm happy leaving my vote where it is. Between his extremely convenient (for wolves) reads list and general tone, I can't think of a better place to put it.

Why on earth would I pick you as a misyeet target on day one? You're a strong player and you've been very present on-thread, there are like eight easier targets.

lots of hemming and hawing claiming to hold onto the zegge vote with lots of reluctance. Giving all the reasons to not follow through without ever considering a substitute. Also gives Cray a pass here who remains one of my top wolf reads.

Because your reaction to the vote close is that of a sad villager, not a defeated wolf

I don't know man, if this is wolf spew it is the most depressing and low key wolf spew I've ever seen

after vote close, true immediately flips and sizzles about how sad he is that zenge is dead now before the reveal even happens. almost like he knew… seems a bit fried.

I don't know why you would be, you're clearly a wolf.

Contingency yeet Dubz

In retrospect, it was probably a little obvious

But have you considered that it would make me sad

Tires to cover for a DubZ nk but dubz messes around which I think leads to it going bad.

Zuri feels worse in light of this. Started to feel bad about Vissy toward the end there.

That isn't enough, but I'm not sure where to go from there. Sporty? Cray??

@justafluff are you village

trying to figure out a new misyeet target. with my cray pack theory I think it makes sense to include at least one pack are as your building your sus list when you’re picking out of the dozen.

Please, even I can tell that I'm different this game from last game

of course, you’d want to up your strategy and vibe if you wolf back to back. Staying the same is the easiest way to get poached.

It's hitting me how much I just helped the pack and I'm really frustrated. Had really started to convince myself that I have good D1 reads, and that I have a good feel for Zenge.

I really liked talkative D1 Zenge. Friggin *hate* that I just punished him for it.


Aljdksksns

This just feels over done.

a;lkjdsdkfal;sdk

fluff is voting for Zuri so I don't have to feel bad about it.

yeet Zuri

Ready to crack open the next viable misyeet.

I don't hate this. What are your reasons?

letting am hash out another possible misyeet to jump on.

You have two full days! And there's only three votes on you right now. Please don't feel discouraged!

The best way to not get misyeeted as a villager is to show that someone else makes more sense as a wolf.

And if you are a wolf, please offer up one of your packmates to us. 🙂

He's showing pretty solid game understanding...

Either way, for some reason I have the feeling that the wolves aren't doing a ton of tight coordinating or planning.

Now that I know zenge is a villager I'm wondering if he's actually right about it being a noob / lowposter pack :/

I appreciate all of true’s kindness and jokes so I feel bad about laying all this out, but in retrospect I think some of this encouragement are just attempts to pocket me and he’s actually a Benedict Arnold.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Sorry in advance for the mega post, just wanted to lay out my case against true in full. It starts with this joke. Yeah I get it’s a joke, but it feels more like the kind of joke you’d make as a wolf to throw some chaos into the mix than a village joking at the idea of being a wolf.

so this is still very early and he’s following up on my initial post but without any rationale...

And then here he claims to have missed my vote? But I think I was the only one on zenge at this point and I get I hadn’t learned to vote as clearly yet but it seems unlikely that you’d missi it when there was one page to read. Anyway, shrugs it off and moves on to solid egg puns. That’s not wolfy, I think it’s actually pretty well eggxecuted. (though Actually now that I’m hear thinking about eggs, the thing that initially made me vote zenge was responding to his good eggs comment which I misinterpreted as a wolf pocketing, but it seems like if true missed my vote eggs might be less on his mind.)

This is one of a long line of true holding onto the zenge vote without ever giving a real reason.

There’s a bunch of quotes here that are all just kinda random and I don’t know just scrambling a bunch of quotes together without making a case about any one of them feels like something you’d do if you were trying to put in the work to look like a villager without actually wolf hunting.





at this point it seems like true is just stalling for time holding onto the reaction test while enduring hard-boiled pressure from DubZ, which I think ultimately led true to crack and nk DubZ while trying to cover for it with some nighttime banter.


this strikes me as a feggned ignorance of the number of wolves… it doesn’t seem like a high priority to figure out and the extra effort here in calculating the proportion feels over easy analysis of this detail for d1.


to be fair and include the sunny side up along with my suspicions this struck me as a pretty normal joke, uneggceptional.

yolking himself to any leggitimate suspicion of zenge to reinforce the misyeet




lots of hemming and hawing claiming to hold onto the zegge vote with lots of reluctance. Giving all the reasons to not follow through without ever considering a substitute. Also gives Cray a pass here who remains one of my top wolf reads.


after vote close, true immediately flips and sizzles about how sad he is that zenge is dead now before the reveal even happens. almost like he knew… seems a bit fried.



Tires to cover for a DubZ nk but dubz messes around which I think leads to it going bad.


trying to figure out a new misyeet target. with my cray pack theory I think it makes sense to include at least one pack are as your building your sus list when you’re picking out of the dozen.

of course, you’d want to up your strategy and vibe if you wolf back to back. Staying the same is the easiest way to get poached.

This just feels over done.

Ready to crack open the next viable misyeet.

letting am hash out another possible misyeet to jump on.


I appreciate all of true’s kindness and jokes so I feel bad about laying all this out, but in retrospect I think some of this encouragement are just attempts to pocket me and he’s actually a Benedict Arnold.

I appreciate this kind of analysis regardless of what True ends up being. Very thorough.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

It's not a necessity. You can have increasingly accurate listings straight up to (the uber rare one of) having both affiliations only in their respective categories (meaning no neutrals).

True, which is why I put the almost in there.

Also, not to be too self deprecating but I don't think I'm nearly good enough at this game to correctly sort everyone into their correct categories.

 

[Crayola227]

She's saying that a wolf would subconsciously do it, not that they're doing it on purpose.

I think the idea is that when the groupings are fabricated, they're more likely to follow an inorganic construction. I don't know if I agree, because when I wolf I tend to put a lot of consideration into reads lists before I post them.

Yes, and I do agree that what we're looking for is artificial construction and I do think that is what is pinging both AM and Samac. And it's fine for flimsy things to ping what should be a sensitive wolfdar. I just would prefer to go from the argument that it's too symmetrical to further analysis, like based on content or thought.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

So, Zuri is in your POE @WorthlessOxygen but then, you feel like you and him are both LHF and that True is taking advantage of that? If True is wolfing, who else is wolfing with him? Cause Zuri is also voting True

I don't know, I think I'm slowly warming up to zuri.

Honestly I hadn't been paying too much attention to possible compatibilities beyond that yet so if zuri ends on yeeting a wolf!true then I'll have to go back and reread with that in mind

 

[Crayola227]

Hyperawaress of trying not to TMI others tends to lead to reads like that. It's not a slam dunk theory by any means, but I've seen it happen on SDN, MU, and other sites I've played on.

It's possible. I'd like to identify what seems like other signs of artificiality to be sure. Where this is coming from is that I know for a fact a villager could have made a symmetrical reads list this game, because I did as much myself.

But I thought samac was sure Fluff was village? Was this fluff's list that was symmetrical? Forgive me I do sometimes get on a tangent to the point of forgetting the original topic

 

[Crayola227]

Thanks for that big wall of quotes True, what's interested to me, is that he defends Zuri for being noob but then also shades him, like in the post "I'm not sure if they're wolfing but still in my POE". But then why follow Zuri into voting for you if both you and Zuri are in the POE?

Yeah that does read like noob wolf

 

[Animal Midwife]

It's possible. I'd like to identify what seems like other signs of artificiality to be sure. Where this is coming from is that I know for a fact a villager could have made a symmetrical reads list this game, because I did as much myself.

But I thought samac was sure Fluff was village? Was this fluff's list that was symmetrical? Forgive me I do sometimes get on a tangent to the point of forgetting the original topic

No, this is Oxy's list that's being discussed. fluff hasn't post a list since fiscal yesterday.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I appreciate this kind of analysis regardless of what True ends up being. Very thorough.

Plus the puns 😍

 

[zuriburi]

Alright, as promised, Big Oxy ISO. By big I mean this is basically all of his posts.

Spoiler: You better click on this, it took a while and my in-laws are visiting

These posts plus another joking one are his thread entrance. Not actively wolfy in a vacuum, some people like to drop a vote and leave, but he added basically nothing to the mix after this vote until:

Just a "sorry I'm behind" and the first comment on Cray.

Another "sorry"

A reference to the fact that he's been away

And another one

A light question, first thing other than the Cray comment that could be considered thread participation

Second unit of thread participation, shading me and defending Zuri

Normal clarifying question

Zuri defense, not village-reading but it stands out to me because of how little we're seeing from WO.


No thread participation other than to pop in and join Zuri on my vote

Interaction with me

Cray interaction

Defense of self

POE. Lots to read into this, will be important if he flips W.

Normal comment, I don't disagree, especially because my Village reads are the same three. A note that his village reads are basically the current 'consensus' village reads, which is a very safe route to take if wolfing.

Key takeaways:

1. Odd fixation on Cray. Talks about and responds to her more than anyone else.
2. Lots of talk about being busy/behind.
3. Started shading me fairly early.
4. Subtle Zuri defense, and now they're both on my vote. Maybe a bit clumsy if they're actually in a pack together, but could also be a pocketing/sheeping attempt by one or the other?

It's not a sure thing but I feel comfortable voting here today.

Ok just gettin caught up after writing my teggdown of truenamer but this also feels like tryin to show the work of wolf hunting without wolf hunting? I don’t think being behind or busy is wolfy, I think there was plenty to read as suspicious about trues behavior early (as too extensively detailed in my post abov.) so shading true early doesnt read as wolfy. Cray has been posting a lot so it makes sense to be fixated on her. woxy voted true before i did, so it’s not accurate to say they joined my vote, and it seems really weird to suggest that we might be in a pack when I’m sitting right at the top of woxy’s POE.

EDIT: Flipped the pronouns up above on wo2 and my vote. To be super clear the sequence was that wo2 voted for true, then i voted for true.

 

[Crayola227]

I don't think I've ever been a misyeet? Frequently shaded for sure. Village vigged once

LHF doesn't have to be successfully misyeeted to qualify, btw. Being a frequent shade target counts as well in my book.

My point being that I just want to tread carefully in our considerations of fluff, visc, wo, zuri, and TN as well. Perhaps TN isn't strictly an easy misyeet, but they are nooby and sketchy and some ppl do claim to have difficulty reading. Those players, by virtue of being hard to read, are at risk of misyeet. My concern about misyeets is not that I am trying not to yeet players under sus because I don't think the sus is justified for one reason or another. Just, if we think 3 wolves max, then there is NO way all of them are wolves. So certainly some are villagers. So how do we decide what order to go in? Who are the wolves vs who are just appealing targets for whatever reason (I use LHF as a shortcut to describe possible reasons).

The choice of who we first yeet is important, because right now we have the least data. So we want whoever we yeet to be correct (yields the most data) or at minimum to be fruitful in terms of helping us get it right the next go round.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

1. Odd fixation on Cray. Talks about and responds to her more than anyone else.

I don't like the characterization of this being a fixation. She's had a lot of posts that I can't quite read and I've been asking for others' opinions on her. She also has tended to be somewhat conversational and active around the same time as me.

 

[Crayola227]

It's not a necessity. You can have increasingly accurate listings straight up to (the uber rare one of) having both affiliations only in their respective categories (meaning no neutrals).

This is true, but if one does use a commonly used paradigm of village/neutral/wolf, then what WO is saying is also true.

 

[zuriburi]

If they're both wolves, it's just Wo2 creating some distance while still agreeing with and supporting Zuri.

If WO2 is a wolf, it's him keeping Zuri in the "to be misyeeted later" pile while using him to try and start a wagon on me for now.

If they're both villagers, well, they're both going to be disappointed when I eventually flip.

when you flip wolf I’ll be disappointed in you for earning my trust once upon a time

 

[Animal Midwife]

The latter is what I aspire to be.

My hang up about LHF is basically the same issue that is faced by villagers in every game, which is the difficulty reading LHF correctly, this includes the ghosty players, noobs, the perpetual sketchmeisters, and the like. This is complicated by the fact that wolves can *be* those players and then there's the WIFOM of that, and the fact that wolves will also push those yeets or even stay off those wagons while village gets its hands dirty. Admittedly thinking about the game from a lens of LHF is maybe a different analysis style. It's something I'm applying as a villager because of it's utility in how I've used it as a wolf. Anything that I observe about wolf tendencies I will try to flip on its head as a villager to hunt for wolves.

This is another reason that I say that wolf experience helps a villager hunt. So when you're wolfing, it is important to try to do it as well as you can. Sometimes the instinct is to throw one's hands up and say, it's too hard, it's too different from villaging. But mastering wolf tactics and wolf thinking can only up your village game. In theory lol.

Keep in mind several games I've been involved in revolved around correctly reading players like myself, cubs, and others in this vein. Recognizing who the juicy misyeet targets are and who is pushing it in a wolfy way (as opposed to misguided villagers) can be a crucial way of identifying the real bad guys.

I think that's why we're strongly disagreeeing on who is and isn't a lhf.

The above definition lists people like dubz as lhf because there's rarely a game where she's not suspected in at least some capacity. Same for me.

Here's what other sites say for lhf.

Commonly Used Abbreviations

wiki.mafiascum.net

Mafia Universe Terminology

www.mafiauniverse.com

 

[Crayola227]

Sorry in advance for the mega post, just wanted to lay out my case against true in full. It starts with this joke. Yeah I get it’s a joke, but it feels more like the kind of joke you’d make as a wolf to throw some chaos into the mix than a village joking at the idea of being a wolf.

so this is still very early and he’s following up on my initial post but without any rationale...

And then here he claims to have missed my vote? But I think I was the only one on zenge at this point and I get I hadn’t learned to vote as clearly yet but it seems unlikely that you’d missi it when there was one page to read. Anyway, shrugs it off and moves on to solid egg puns. That’s not wolfy, I think it’s actually pretty well eggxecuted. (though Actually now that I’m hear thinking about eggs, the thing that initially made me vote zenge was responding to his good eggs comment which I misinterpreted as a wolf pocketing, but it seems like if true missed my vote eggs might be less on his mind.)

This is one of a long line of true holding onto the zenge vote without ever giving a real reason.

There’s a bunch of quotes here that are all just kinda random and I don’t know just scrambling a bunch of quotes together without making a case about any one of them feels like something you’d do if you were trying to put in the work to look like a villager without actually wolf hunting.





at this point it seems like true is just stalling for time holding onto the reaction test while enduring hard-boiled pressure from DubZ, which I think ultimately led true to crack and nk DubZ while trying to cover for it with some nighttime banter.


this strikes me as a feggned ignorance of the number of wolves… it doesn’t seem like a high priority to figure out and the extra effort here in calculating the proportion feels over easy analysis of this detail for d1.


to be fair and include the sunny side up along with my suspicions this struck me as a pretty normal joke, uneggceptional.

yolking himself to any leggitimate suspicion of zenge to reinforce the misyeet




lots of hemming and hawing claiming to hold onto the zegge vote with lots of reluctance. Giving all the reasons to not follow through without ever considering a substitute. Also gives Cray a pass here who remains one of my top wolf reads.


after vote close, true immediately flips and sizzles about how sad he is that zenge is dead now before the reveal even happens. almost like he knew… seems a bit fried.



Tires to cover for a DubZ nk but dubz messes around which I think leads to it going bad.


trying to figure out a new misyeet target. with my cray pack theory I think it makes sense to include at least one pack are as your building your sus list when you’re picking out of the dozen.

of course, you’d want to up your strategy and vibe if you wolf back to back. Staying the same is the easiest way to get poached.

This just feels over done.

Ready to crack open the next viable misyeet.

letting am hash out another possible misyeet to jump on.


I appreciate all of true’s kindness and jokes so I feel bad about laying all this out, but in retrospect I think some of this encouragement are just attempts to pocket me and he’s actually a Benedict Arnold.

I like this post. Feel very conflicted about zuri vs true.

Do have to point out, caution about ISOs. They are very tempting to use, but can be extremely prone to confirmation bias. It can take experience to get good at using them effectively for gamesolving. Hands are tiring out to explain. I'm sure I've written about it in past games.

 

[Animal Midwife]

This is true, but if one does use a commonly used paradigm of village/neutral/wolf, then what WO is saying is also true.

Not really? It's not a good idea to put people in neutral if you actually have a lean on them.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 2: Leap Before You Think Tally

zuri (1)-- genny
Cray ()
Visc (3) - AM, Cray, Sporty
WO2 (3)- samac, fluff, True
fluff (1) - Visc
True (2) - WO2, zuri

10/10

Missing: n/a
Leading: @Viscernable & @WorthlessOxygen

Vote closes TODAY at 9 p.m. CST (~5 hours)