Panem et Circenses - Game Thread

[Navilly]

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I don’t have anything to say about the rest of this post, but I do disagree with a “wolf” role being more likely wolfy. I intentionally wrote the Wolf role in Smash to be a villager and the Villager role to be a wolf.

While I agree with the sentiment here, I have been in games where someone was literally named a role like "The Godfather" or "The Minion" and people ignored the idea behind the role names being wolfy (which in the context of the games, it didn't automatically make them wolfy, but the double entendre aspect did), and they went days without being voted off. Even if it's a trap role, it is a trap role which will get tested eventually, rather deal with it sooner rather than later.

 

[WildZoo]

.
A few questions for you:

1. When did you look up names and why didn't you bring that up on the thread prior (in reference to agreeing with my assessment for the animal killer)?
2. Do you feel the game has felt too echo chambery for you up until now?
3. What timing would affect your interpretation otherwise on the numbers there (with respect to first vote tally)?
4. What is your basis in defending me on my posts? It's weird and feels like you are simply trying to buy favor.

1. I didn't. I was agreeing that it sounded like there was an animal killer. Seems you found a character that matches up, so I agreed that we're probably looking for that person.
$. Not sure what you mean? Like everyone having the same reads? Not any more than usual.
E. Fewer wolf points for people who voted for zig later in the day, and the makeup of the rest of the lynch affects that. More wolf points to those avoiding the main wagons once they had already started forming, than to those who just voted early and didn't see a reason to move.
. It was less about you and more about questioning Barks' analysis

 

[PippyPony]

I was the Banshee last game.
.

No. You were cliodhna, who gets referred to as a banshee in some myths, but vetmedhead was THE banshee, who was a wolf with an extra kill mechanism.

 

[Navilly]

1. I didn't. I was agreeing that it sounded like there was an animal killer. Seems you found a character that matches up, so I agreed that we're probably looking for that person.
$. Not sure what you mean? Like everyone having the same reads? Not any more than usual.
E. Fewer wolf points for people who voted for zig later in the day, and the makeup of the rest of the lynch affects that. More wolf points to those avoiding the main wagons once they had already started forming, than to those who just voted early and didn't see a reason to move.
. It was less about you and more about questioning Barks' analysis.

I am going to disagree with the assertion on the second half of three. Wolves would have the same concept there of voting early and not seeing a reason to move, that does not move anyone down on the wolfiness of the move. In fact, they would be discouraged from moving to pile on to one or the other. I need to do the play by play of it, I will quote the lynch tallys for day one shortly to analyze how the movements went.

And not necessarily with even reads, just lots of echoing of various points.

 

[WildZoo]

.
I am going to disagree with the assertion on the second half of three. Wolves would have the same concept there of voting early and not seeing a reason to move, that does not move anyone down on the wolfiness of the move. In fact, they would be discouraged from moving to pile on to one or the other. I need to do the play by play of it, I will quote the lynch tallys for day one shortly to analyze how the movements went.

And not necessarily with even reads, just lots of echoing of various points.

Didn't say no wolf points, I said fewer 😉 I'm not going to give someone much of a wolf point just because they happened to place a vote early that didn't generate a wagon, that would be expecting people to predict the future. Not going to give them a village point for it either. So to me it's NAI, whereas a later vote on a non-starter raises my eyebrow a little more. Usually I like analyzing lynch trackers better than tallies but I don't have time to make them this game so here we are.

Example?

 

[Navilly]

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs (1) - Paws
Genny (1) - AM
Dina (1) - Barks
AM (1) - ziggy
Paws (1) - Nav
Stagg (1) - mutts
Barks (1) - Doggo
mpm (1) - Pippy
ziggy (1) - mpm

9/20 Voting
Lynch closes in ~9 hrs

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs (1) - Paws
genny () -
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (1) - Nav
Stagg (2) - mutts, ziggy
Barks (1) - Doggo
mpm (1) - Pippy
ziggy (2) - mpm, AM
mutts (1) - genny
Sporty (1) - Stagg

11/20 Voting
Lynch closes in ~7 hrs

Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs (1) - Paws
Genny () -
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (1) - Nav
Stagg (1) - mutts
Barks (1) - Doggo
mpm () -
ziggy (2) - mpm, AM
Mutts (1) - genny
Sporty (1) - Stagg
Pippy (1) - ZJ

10/20 Voting
Lynch closes in ~5 hrs

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs (1) - Paws
Genny () -
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (1) - Nav
Stagg (1) - mutts
Barks () -
mpm () -
ziggy (5) - mpm, AM, jboo, Doggo, cubs
Mutts (1) - genny
Sporty (1) - Stagg
Pippy (1) - ZJ

12/20 Voting
Lynch closes in ~4 hrs

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs () -
Genny () -
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (1) - Nav
Stagg (1) - mutts
Barks () -
mpm () -
ziggy (5) - mpm, AM, jboo, Doggo, cubs
Mutts (1) - genny
Sporty (1) - Stagg
Pippy (1) - ZJ
Doggo (1) - paws

12/20 Voting
Lynch closes in ~3 hrs

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs () -
Genny () -
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws () -
Stagg (2) - mutts, paws
Barks () -
mpm () -
ziggy (5) - mpm, AM, jboo, Doggo, cubs
Mutts (1) - genny
Sporty (2) - Stagg, ziggy
Pippy () -
Doggo () -

11/20 Voting
Lynch closes in ~3.5 hrs I think?

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs () -
Genny () -
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (1) - WZ
Stagg (2) - mutts, paws
Barks () -
mpm () -
ziggy (6) - mpm, AM, jboo, Doggo, cubs, emlady
Mutts (1) - genny
Sporty (2) - Stagg, ziggy
Pippy () -
Doggo () -
WZ (1) - Nav

14/20 Voting
Lynch closes in ~1.5 hrs

Not voting yet:
@dolphin106258 @Ms Procrastinator @Dinashadow @SARdoghandler @SportPonies @PippyPony

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs () -
Genny () -
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (2) - WZ, SAR
Stagg (2) - mutts, paws
Barks () -
mpm () -
ziggy (6) - mpm, AM, jboo, Doggo, cubs, emlady
Mutts (3) - genny, Dina, ziggy
Sporty (1) - Stagg
Pippy () -
Doggo () -
WZ (1) - Nav

16/20 Voting
Lynch closes in 30 minutes

Not voting yet: dolphin, MsP, Sporty, Pippy

Unofficial Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs () -
Genny (1) - MsP
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (1) - SAR
Stagg (2) - mutts, paws
Barks () -
mpm () -
ziggy (6) - mpm, AM, jboo, Doggo, cubs, emlady
Mutts (4) - genny, Dina, ziggy, dubz
Sporty (1) - Stagg
Pippy () -
Doggo () -
WZ (2) - Nav, Sporty

18/20 Voting
Lynch closes in 10 minutes

Not voting yet: dolphin, Pippy

Day 1 First Blood Official Lynch Tally
Cubs () -
Genny (1) - MsP
Dina (1) - Barks
AM () -
Paws (1) - SAR
Stagg (2) - mutts, paws
Barks () -
mpm () -
ziggy (6) - mpm, AM, jboo, Doggo, cubs, emlady
Mutts (5) - genny, Dina, ziggy, dubz, Navs
Sporty (1) - Stagg
Pippy () -
Doggo () -
WZ (1) - Sporty

18/20 Voting
Lynch closes in 3 minutes

Not voting yet: @dolphin106258 @PippyPony

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Like Nave said we should probably look at the writeups

No. You were cliodhna, who gets referred to as a banshee in some myths, but vetmedhead was THE banshee, who was a wolf with an extra kill mechanism. .

oh

 

[PippyPony]

Like Nave said we should probably look at the writeups

I have some thoughts on them, will post them shortly

 

[WildZoo]

tallies

So I'd say sporty and MsP look pretty bad here, except sporty I still have in neutral because I don't think she had read the thread at the point that she voted for me. I don't much see cubs and em jumping on the end of the zig wagon that late as wolves when no one else was in any danger of being lynched (part of why I'm not feeling cubs).

 

[Navilly]

From first lynch people that stayed on lynch the whole time, no switching:
Barks (voted for dina whole lynch, one of the early votes, was around after, just didn't have interest in switching)
MsP (voted for genny, late in lynch, less than 30 minutes remaining)
mpm (was on the Ziggy lynch the whole time)

(This was my analysis of the tallies, having done analysis of them since posting, at the point where Wildzoo posted). Wildzoo got that post out REAL quick, weird how she honed in on things and how fast she got it out). Will continue my analysis of tallies on next post.

 

[WildZoo]

From first lynch people that stayed on lynch the whole time, no switching:
Barks (voted for dina whole lynch, one of the early votes, was around after, just didn't have interest in switching)
MsP (voted for genny, late in lynch, less than 30 minutes remaining)
mpm (was on the Ziggy lynch the whole time)

(This was my analysis of the tallies, having done analysis of them since posting, at the point where Wildzoo posted). Wildzoo got that post out REAL quick, weird how she honed in on things and how fast she got it out). Will continue my analysis of tallies on next post.

What can I say, I've been sharpening my thread stalking skills and practicing my speed posting for years

 

[Navilly]

Stagg (voted for sporty very early on and stayed without changing)
Jboo (stayed on Ziggy vote all day)

People with Last minute changes in votes/last minute votes:
Myself (vote for mutts)
Wildzoo (vote for mutts)
Sporty (vote for Wildzoo)
MsP (vote for Genny)

 

[PippyPony]

Ok some thoughts on write ups --

First, when I read these, one of the things that stood out to me was a theme of a fellow gladiator backstabbing the now-dead:

They'd never attacked her with 3 people before. First she started collecting scratches. The humans were getting closer and closer, until finally she didn't see one of them get behind her and.....
Dead is @ziggyandjazzy - Bear - Villager​

Others were intimidated by such fearsome foes. One such fighter decided that they would rather not meet a particular gladiator in battle, and decided to find a quiet moment to introduce a poison dagger to the gladiator's spine.
Dead is @SARdoghandler - Verus - Villager & Mason​

As he paced around the staging area, anxious for the next round, someone approached him under the guise of fellow warrior come to pay his respects and share a bit of bread. A few minutes later, the person vanished into the shadows, and Flamma was found dead in his corner.

8. @Dinashadow - Flamma - Villager & Vigilante​

So, that's 3 with some kind of fighter with a surreptitious angle.

Also think it's potentially notable in the second one that there was deliberate reference to the bad guy fighters being intimidated. I have some tinfoily thoughts about that, but am not really feeling like going into all of them at the moment, just noting that it clearly has a tinge of fear/cowardice in there.

It was Crixus, though not as well known as his brother in arms, Crixus was the second-in-command for the third slave rebellion.

Indicating another gladiator in the game maybe

​

However one person, filled with uncontrolled hate for animals after being made to fight so many of them over the years, got to her before her round started, and slew her.

16. @genny - Elephant - Villager​

Agree with others that this strongly hints at a double kill like I said this morning, but I am not entirely convinced it is on animals because I don't think genny hinted at her role name anywhere (at least, I didn't see it).

On the other hand, wolves could absolutely have a role name seer. If there is another double kill on an animal, I think I will be asking some questions about any night results that people may have received that could indicate role name seering, because then I would be willing to bet that is not a village action in this game.

 

[Navilly]

Ok some thoughts on write ups --

First, when I read these, one of the things that stood out to me was a theme of a fellow gladiator backstabbing the now-dead:




So, that's 3 with some kind of fighter with a surreptitious angle.

Also think it's potentially notable in the second one that there was deliberate reference to the bad guy fighters being intimidated. I have some tinfoily thoughts about that, but am not really feeling like going into all of them at the moment, just noting that it clearly has a tinge of fear/cowardice in there.


Indicating another gladiator in the game maybe

​

Agree with others that this strongly hints at a double kill like I said this morning, but I am not entirely convinced it is on animals because I don't think genny hinted at her role name anywhere (at least, I didn't see it).

On the other hand, wolves could absolutely have a role name seer. If there is another double kill on an animal, I think I will be asking some questions about any night results that people may have received that could indicate role name seering, because then I would be willing to bet that is not a village action in this game.

I am not sure if I agree with the logic here. Just because someone was killed that was an animal doesn't necessarily lend us one way or the other on the type of seering wolves have:/don't have:
a) The animal killer may be chaos, with the goal of killing all the animals within the game (which as I pointed out earlier, would make there be a likely wolf that is an animal)
b) The animal killer is a wolf, does not need to know whether the person is an animal to try an attack on them, and got lucky (whether this was lucky on the second attempt with an every night kill, or lucky on the first attempt on an every night kill)
c) The wolves have a role name seer, did not seer an animal name on night 1, and thus increased odds of finding a random person on night 2 that was an animal
d) The wolves have a role name seer, seered genny on night 1, and knew to kill them on night 2.

At this point, I am skeptical regarding the types of roles the wolves have. If they had a double killer, whether every other night or every night, as well as a role name seer, there would need to be something equal and commiserate for us to combat the power there. Thus far, we have seen a lot of nothing special villager roles, as well as a bunch of roles that aren't powers (ie. masons), or can have a positive or negative effect on village (ie. vigilante). So at this point, I am more inclined to believe they got lucky, or that chaos got lucky (or maybe chaos gets to seer one night, kill another night, definitely another valid possibility)

 

[Navilly]

As a final note, I don't take a whole lot of weight into day write ups indicating those that are bad, unless it's a narrative type game and it makes sense that it would occur in such a manner.

 

[Navilly]

Final final note on that, The brother in arms to Crixus is Spartacus.

 

[Stagg737]

Busy work day and managed to get a doctors appointment moved up to 6pm tonight, so will likely have minimal participation today. Will be able o be around much more tomorrow though. Current thoughts:

omg It's not unreasonable to have a vig shot process before death.

I don't like this convo with AM and the vig thing. I very much doubt Dina would use her vig kill on Genny on N2 when she had only expressed some feelz for her and I find the convo between AM and Pippy on this to sound very manufactured.

Or the vig can just go full blown paranoid and launch cows at unsuspecting soft-cleared villagers. That approach is usually solid

Lol, RIP Sporty. I think I hear mod-thunder in the background...

It would be pretty funny. I need someone to push me since Mel can't.

Okay, Lynch AM

For your continued bizarre behavior/posting.

With no one having made role claims at this point

So as a heads up, on SDN noobs have been told the "ideal" time to role reveal/ability reveal is ~1 hour before lynch close. Some people straight up refuse to role reveal even when they're obviously going to get lynched and have a village PR like protector (AM). Some are more open with their roles, but generally speaking role reveals have been discouraged for the most part from what I've see, and early role reveals have even been called sketchy.

The wolves wouldn't have been dumb enough to all pile on Ziggy, or at least I hope they would have had the sense to not do that.

I agree, but I can think of 2 games where all wolves voted together (one multiple days in a row, also last game where 3 remaining wolves voted together), which can create an interesting wifom.

This doesn't make any sense.

Do you think this is actually wolfy? Because I would very much like to hear your other reads. All of them.

How does that not make sense?


Would be okay with a lynch for: Cubs, EM, Sporty, AM

On the sketchy side of the fence: Pippy, Navi, Doggo, Dubz?

Neutral: Paws, Lawpy, Dolphin

Village leans: Barks,

Want to hear more/idk: Dolphin, MsP, Jboo (want to iso later)

In case it was missed above:

Lynch AM

 

[PippyPony]

I am not sure if I agree with the logic here. Just because someone was killed that was an animal doesn't necessarily lend us one way or the other on the type of seering wolves have:/don't have:
a) The animal killer may be chaos, with the goal of killing all the animals within the game (which as I pointed out earlier, would make there be a likely wolf that is an animal)
b) The animal killer is a wolf, does not need to know whether the person is an animal to try an attack on them, and got lucky (whether this was lucky on the second attempt with an every night kill, or lucky on the first attempt on an every night kill)
c) The wolves have a role name seer, did not seer an animal name on night 1, and thus increased odds of finding a random person on night 2 that was an animal
d) The wolves have a role name seer, seered genny on night 1, and knew to kill them on night 2.

At this point, I am skeptical regarding the types of roles the wolves have. If they had a double killer, whether every other night or every night, as well as a role name seer, there would need to be something equal and commiserate for us to combat the power there. Thus far, we have seen a lot of nothing special villager roles, as well as a bunch of roles that aren't powers (ie. masons), or can have a positive or negative effect on village (ie. vigilante). So at this point, I am more inclined to believe they got lucky, or that chaos got lucky (or maybe chaos gets to seer one night, kill another night, definitely another valid possibility)

I see your point, and that's fair about the commensurate powers...but first of all, you don't know all the village roles in this game, and I'm not immediately jumping to that one possibility. All I'm saying is that if it happens again rapidly, it might make me wonder a little bit more about #4 rather than assuming wolves got that lucky that fast.

I mean we have n=1 here, the kill might not have even needed to be on an animal - that part could have just been flair for that one kill.

(Or, like AM was insisting this morning, maybe it was Dina and the write up just doesn't match. Speaking from the perspective of a mod who doesn't always like to give people much they can use as weak seering in write ups, I don't want to totally rule out the potential that it doesn't mean a lot. Although, Cheezit tends to be much more heavy handed with that sort of thing than I am -- just a personal preference -- so given that this is his game and not mine, I'd bank a little more on it being meaningful.)

 

[PippyPony]

So as a heads up, on SDN noobs have been told the "ideal" time to role reveal/ability reveal is ~1 hour before lynch close. Some people straight up refuse to role reveal even when they're obviously going to get lynched and have a village PR like protector (AM). Some are more open with their roles, but generally speaking role reveals have been discouraged for the most part from what I've see, and early role reveals have even been called sketchy.

Which, side note, I think is:

1) crummy advice, to whoever started giving it
2) kinda wimpy and boring.

Maybe we could use a few earlier role reveals & things sometimes. Maybe it could even help figure out who is a good person to lynch and who is not.

Live a little, people, you'll enjoy it more even if you die faster every once in a while.

 

[Stagg737]

one of the things that stood out to me was a theme of a fellow gladiator backstabbing the now-dead:

If we're including possible fictional characters, then Asher from the show Spartacus would fit this role to a tee.

@Navilly , since you were talking about the emperor thing earlier, if we're considering something like that as a wolfy role why not the actual emperor Commodus? He took part in rigged gladiator fights as well.

I have no idea if either of those ideas are useful, but if you're really going to speculate on roles that heavily, there's two more to keep in mind.

 

[Navilly]

Busy work day and managed to get a doctors appointment moved up to 6pm tonight, so will likely have minimal participation today. Will be able o be around much more tomorrow though. Current thoughts:



I don't like this convo with AM and the vig thing. I very much doubt Dina would use her vig kill on Genny on N2 when she had only expressed some feelz for her and I find the convo between AM and Pippy on this to sound very manufactured.



Lol, RIP Sporty. I think I hear mod-thunder in the background...



Okay, Lynch AM

For your continued bizarre behavior/posting.



So as a heads up, on SDN noobs have been told the "ideal" time to role reveal/ability reveal is ~1 hour before lynch close. Some people straight up refuse to role reveal even when they're obviously going to get lynched and have a village PR like protector (AM). Some are more open with their roles, but generally speaking role reveals have been discouraged for the most part from what I've see, and early role reveals have even been called sketchy.



I agree, but I can think of 2 games where all wolves voted together (one multiple days in a row, also last game where 3 remaining wolves voted together), which can create an interesting wifom.



How does that not make sense?


Would be okay with a lynch for: Cubs, EM, Sporty, AM

On the sketchy side of the fence: Pippy, Navi, Doggo, Dubz?

Neutral: Paws, Lawpy, Dolphin

Village leans: Barks,

Want to hear more/idk: Dolphin, MsP, Jboo (want to iso later)

In case it was missed above:

Lynch AM

Here's the problem with a reveal an hour before deadline:
a) Everyone is not around the last hour of deadline, and people that want to keep their vote where it is and just pretend not to be present.
b) This causes a scurried movement of oh no let's try and figure out and coordinate a person to lynch. This tends to work out in the wolves favor for that particular lynch (although if wolves aren't careful, can turn into a goldmine of information later on)
c) It pretty much creates a deadlock on discussion until people see the role reveal, at which point will create further discussion of whether to pivot to a new candidate or not.
d) There are no rules to follow in WW. It's about having fun in the way you see fit, putting yourself on the line at times, and sometimes it going miserably and horribly wrong (tbh, that's often times when I have the most fun is when things go miserably and horribly wrong)

@Stagg737 I talked about Commodus being an almost guaranteed wolf role. in my previous posts. I am skeptical that this involves a tv show and not history itself.

 

[PippyPony]

How does that not make sense?

Do you want me to launch into a tirade about people being complainers again? No? Good, neither do I -- let's focus on reads related to THIS GAME THAT IS HAPPENING.

+1 wolf to you because when I feel compelled to break out the caps, it's usually because I'm about to lose my mind at some wolf being stubborn about things that don't matter.

Speaking of things that do matter, I still have not heard any reads from @Doggo Labs after I asked for them earlier today, and therefore I am led to believe that his only wolf read is based off of something entirely tangential and irrelevant.

 

[PippyPony]

+1 wolf to you because when I feel compelled to break out the caps, it's usually because I'm about to lose my mind at some wolf being stubborn about things that don't matter.

@vetmedhead knows, she has been on the receiving end of me shouting

 

[Stagg737]

Here's the problem with a reveal an hour before deadline:
a) Everyone is not around the last hour of deadline, and people that want to keep their vote where it is and just pretend not to be present.
b) This causes a scurried movement of oh no let's try and figure out and coordinate a person to lynch. This tends to work out in the wolves favor for that particular lynch (although if wolves aren't careful, can turn into a goldmine of information later on)
c) It pretty much creates a deadlock on discussion until people see the role reveal, at which point will create further discussion of whether to pivot to a new candidate or not.
d) There are no rules to follow in WW. It's about having fun in the way you see fit, putting yourself on the line at times, and sometimes it going miserably and horribly wrong (tbh, that's often times when I have the most fun is when things go miserably and horribly wrong)

@Stagg737 I talked about Commodus being an almost guaranteed wolf role. in my previous posts. I am skeptical that this involves a tv show and not history itself.

Couldn't remember the actual roles that you'd mentioned, and just throwing stuff out there. Mods don't always stick to a single specific theme. For example, the Horses game had irl horses (seabiscuit, mine that bird), fictional horses (bojack horseman), and mythological horses (whatever Alexander the Great's horse was), so not out of the question. I don't think it's going to help that much anyway, but since enough people think it's worth considering figured I'd throw it out there.

Do you want me to launch into a tirade about people being complainers again? No? Good, neither do I -- let's focus on reads related to THIS GAME THAT IS HAPPENING.

+1 wolf to you because when I feel compelled to break out the caps, it's usually because I'm about to lose my mind at some wolf being stubborn about things that don't matter.

Speaking of things that do matter, I still have not heard any reads from @Doggo Labs after I asked for them earlier today, and therefore I am led to believe that his only wolf read is based off of something entirely tangential and irrelevant.

And I asked you that because we already went over that point, I stated why I thought it did matter, and then you liked that post. So you at least thought it was a valid thought and then you said it didn't make sense when posted by someone else. I don't think this line of questioning is going to go anywhere, but that's why I asked you and your response isn't making me feel better about it.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Weren't you a vig in Dogs? Haven't you already proven it?

I thought it was some variation of it rather than a straight one, but I'll use it for cushy argument padding.

Wow what am, chopped liver? Did my AM reading card expire when I wasn't looking?

You push me only when I'm exactly a wolf or more dangerous third-party. That's a whole separate tier.

I need to look at the timing for this. My impression was wolves were fine sitting off the main wagons because they were both village, unless a wolf voted for zig relatively early and then felt like they couldn't move elsewhere (*coughs in AM's general direction*).

*offers a throat lozenge*

 

[Animal Midwife]

Busy work day and managed to get a doctors appointment moved up to 6pm tonight, so will likely have minimal participation today. Will be able o be around much more tomorrow though. Current thoughts:



I don't like this convo with AM and the vig thing. I very much doubt Dina would use her vig kill on Genny on N2 when she had only expressed some feelz for her and I find the convo between AM and Pippy on this to sound very manufactured.



Lol, RIP Sporty. I think I hear mod-thunder in the background...



Okay, Lynch AM

For your continued bizarre behavior/posting.



So as a heads up, on SDN noobs have been told the "ideal" time to role reveal/ability reveal is ~1 hour before lynch close. Some people straight up refuse to role reveal even when they're obviously going to get lynched and have a village PR like protector (AM). Some are more open with their roles, but generally speaking role reveals have been discouraged for the most part from what I've see, and early role reveals have even been called sketchy.



I agree, but I can think of 2 games where all wolves voted together (one multiple days in a row, also last game where 3 remaining wolves voted together), which can create an interesting wifom.



How does that not make sense?


Would be okay with a lynch for: Cubs, EM, Sporty, AM

On the sketchy side of the fence: Pippy, Navi, Doggo, Dubz?

Neutral: Paws, Lawpy, Dolphin

Village leans: Barks,

Want to hear more/idk: Dolphin, MsP, Jboo (want to iso later)

In case it was missed above:

Lynch AM

Alright Stagg, I see you're ready to thunderdome me. Let's start by talking about your wolf reads? Sporty and I are voting for cubs. cubs is voting for me. How does this affect your read? Why are you wolfreading these people in the first place? Also, why is Barks your only village read?

 

[PippyPony]

And I asked you that because we already went over that point, I stated why I thought it did matter, and then you liked that post. So you at least thought it was a valid thought and then you said it didn't make sense when posted by someone else. I don't think this line of questioning is going to go anywhere, but that's why I asked you and your response isn't making me feel better about it.

Ok fine, you want more of an explanation why it doesn't make sense?


Is anyone blocking noobs from reading old games when they join this site?
Nope, don't think so

Did Doggo have access to old games on this site? Did you? Did all of us?
Yes we did.

Do some players come in with quite a lot of experience from playing IRL and such? Do we ask them for video play-by-plays of their previous games, or demand a list of credentials before they can play in our secret club free forum?
No, we don't, because that would be stupid and obnoxious af.

Are we all suddenly incapable of evaluating a player based off of what they are posting in the game that is happening?
I sure as **** hope we can still do that, because otherwise we are going to lose this game real bad.

Like, why u mad, bro? Just because someone is doing some research on people and using it with moderate effectiveness? Is that threatening in some way? I don't have anything to hide in my old games or in this one -- do you?

The next person who complains about this is going to hear from me in a PM so we can stop cluttering up the thread with this nonsense.

 

[Animal Midwife]

@cubsrule4e I still want an answer.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Unofficial Day 3 Lynch Tally
Sporty (2) - Nav, Stagg
Emmy (2) - Barks, Lawpy
cubs (3) - AM, Sporty, jboo
AM (2) - cubs, Stagg
Nav (1) - Doggo

10/15
lynch close in ~6 hrs

 

[Stagg737]

Ok fine, you want more of an explanation why it doesn't make sense?


Is anyone blocking noobs from reading old games when they join this site?
Nope, don't think so

Did Doggo have access to old games on this site? Did you? Did all of us?
Yes we did.

Do some players come in with quite a lot of experience from playing IRL and such? Do we ask them for video play-by-plays of their previous games, or demand a list of credentials before they can play in our secret club free forum?
No, we don't, because that would be stupid and obnoxious af.

Are we all suddenly incapable of evaluating a player based off of what they are posting in the game that is happening?
I sure as **** hope we can still do that, because otherwise we are going to lose this game real bad.

Like, why u mad, bro? Just because someone is doing some research on people and using it with moderate effectiveness? Is that threatening in some way? I don't have anything to hide in my old games or in this one -- do you?

The next person who complains about this is going to hear from me in a PM so we can stop cluttering up the thread with this nonsense.

I already stated my reasoning for this as it relates to this game. If you need me to repost it I will as it has little to nothing to do with what you said above. Obviously I'm not the one who's mad, 'bro'. Also, Navi has failed to catch any wolves thus far so how has it been moderately effective?

Sporty and I are voting for cubs. cubs is voting for me. How does this affect your read?

It makes me want to see a Cubs or Sporty flip, as that would give me info on the other two of you. EM flip would give me the same info as yesterday, largely in regards to Navi and several other players. I'm voting for you for obvious reasons. I'm not parking my vote here, but you always want people to vote with who they think is sketchy, so there you go.

Why are you wolfreading these people in the first place?

Cubs - Actually feeling more like he is not a wolf, but there's enough threads tied there that him flipping would give a lot of info, including info on at least 3 of my other sketchy reads (you, Sporty, Navi). So not voting there but fine with the flip.

Sporty - The more I'm hearing from her, the less I'm liking. I'd have to go back and look, but combination of her feeling more and more off, general combative tone to basic questions, and lack of significant contribution taken together make me unhappy. Feels like Dogs. If I move my vote it will likely go here at this point.

AM - This should be suuuuuuper obvious, and also possibly something which isn't super obvious which I'm undecided on but will be keeping an eye on. Looking forward to more contributions.

EM - Actually feeling slightly better about her today, but again, she's still sketchy for the same reasons I gave yesterday and her flip would give me useful info on multiple other players.

Also, why is Barks your only village read?

Because everyone is being sketchballz af this game or minimally contributing/not answering questions. I feel like Barks is the only person who is seems normal, is being logical, and is legitimately wolf-hunting using semi-concrete logic instead of wild speculations or throwing shade. Could I be wrong on her, of course, but right now that's how I'm reading her. I could also potentially move Paws into my village leans category, but I feel more comfortable in my "neutral village" pile right now.

Unofficial Day 3 Lynch Tally
Sporty (2) - Nav, Stagg
Emmy (2) - Barks, Lawpy
cubs (3) - AM, Sporty, jboo
AM (2) - cubs, Stagg
Nav (1) - Doggo

10/15
lynch close in ~6 hrs

I'm not voting for Sporty, yet.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Unofficial Day 3 Lynch Tally
Sporty (2) - Nav, Pippy
Emmy (2) - Barks, Lawpy
cubs (3) - AM, Sporty, jboo
AM (2) - cubs, Stagg
Nav (1) - Doggo

10/15
lynch close in ~5.5 hrs

 

[PippyPony]

Obviously I'm not the one who's mad, 'bro'.

This is an expression, know your meme
U MAD? | Know Your Meme

 

[Animal Midwife]

It makes me want to see a Cubs or Sporty flip, as that would give me info on the other two of you. EM flip would give me the same info as yesterday, largely in regards to Navi and several other players. I'm voting for you for obvious reasons. I'm not parking my vote here, but you always want people to vote with who they think is sketchy, so there you go.

What info would it give? What obvious reasons? And I've specifically said you do NOT vote with who you think is sketch if you believe in your wolf reads.

Cubs - Actually feeling more like he is not a wolf, but there's enough threads tied there that him flipping would give a lot of info, including info on at least 3 of my other sketchy reads (you, Sporty, Navi). So not voting there but fine with the flip.

Sporty - The more I'm hearing from her, the less I'm liking. I'd have to go back and look, but combination of her feeling more and more off, general combative tone to basic questions, and lack of significant contribution taken together make me unhappy. Feels like Dogs. If I move my vote it will likely go here at this point.

AM - This should be suuuuuuper obvious, and also possibly something which isn't super obvious which I'm undecided on but will be keeping an eye on. Looking forward to more contributions.

EM - Actually feeling slightly better about her today, but again, she's still sketchy for the same reasons I gave yesterday and her flip would give me useful info on multiple other players.

Again, what is obvious? I appreciate there at least being reasoning on the others even though they're a little hedgy.

 

[Animal Midwife]

This is an expression, know your meme
U MAD? | Know Your Meme

He's just old. 😛

 

[PippyPony]

Again, what is obvious? I appreciate there at least being reasoning on the others even though they're a little hedgy.

A little? Looked more hedgy than an English garden to me

 

[PippyPony]

He's just old. 😛

So am I 😛

 

[Stagg737]

This is an expression, know your meme
U MAD? | Know Your Meme

I know my memes, tyvm.

He's just old. 😛

Everyone is old to the 12 year olds... (and I'm still younger than Pippy 😛)

What info would it give?

You serious? Sporty and you both voted for Cubs moments after Pippy's post earlier. Navi is willing to push a Cubs vote to see the flip. Several players have softly defended Cubs. What info do you think it's going to give 😵

What obvious reasons?

Again, what is obvious? I appreciate there at least being reasoning on the others even though they're a little hedgy.

Again, seriously? Your participation and questioning has declined to the point that even Pippy and Dubz have commented on it. You're not aggressively pushing questions (until now) like usual. You've been supporting talk about mechanics, which...what? Beyond that you seemed to be implying that Dina vig shot at Genny who she had only mildly mentioned as suspecting in passing, so why the heck would she use a vig kill D2 on someone she didn't even suspect who would provide little info to village. She's a better player than that. Too many things in conjunction from you that's off and which I find straight up bizarre to let slide. Plus you asked someone to push you, so you're welcome.

There are specific posts that pinged me (already explained reasoning for EM with posts, you can use the search function for that), said I'm not leaning heavily wolfy on Cubs but would give info. Reasoning for you is above. I'll look up Sporty later if you want, but don't have time to dig right now.

And I've specifically said you do NOT vote with who you think is sketch if you believe in your wolf reads.

Well I don't completely believe in my wolf reads at this point, so there you go. Today is a busy day so I've mostly skimmed. Will be able to actually look back tonight/tomorrow and re-evaluate, but that's where I stand right now.

 

[Navilly]

I already stated my reasoning for this as it relates to this game. If you need me to repost it I will as it has little to nothing to do with what you said above. Obviously I'm not the one who's mad, 'bro'. Also, Navi has failed to catch any wolves thus far so how has it been moderately effective?



It makes me want to see a Cubs or Sporty flip, as that would give me info on the other two of you. EM flip would give me the same info as yesterday, largely in regards to Navi and several other players. I'm voting for you for obvious reasons. I'm not parking my vote here, but you always want people to vote with who they think is sketchy, so there you go.



Cubs - Actually feeling more like he is not a wolf, but there's enough threads tied there that him flipping would give a lot of info, including info on at least 3 of my other sketchy reads (you, Sporty, Navi). So not voting there but fine with the flip.

Sporty - The more I'm hearing from her, the less I'm liking. I'd have to go back and look, but combination of her feeling more and more off, general combative tone to basic questions, and lack of significant contribution taken together make me unhappy. Feels like Dogs. If I move my vote it will likely go here at this point.

AM - This should be suuuuuuper obvious, and also possibly something which isn't super obvious which I'm undecided on but will be keeping an eye on. Looking forward to more contributions.

EM - Actually feeling slightly better about her today, but again, she's still sketchy for the same reasons I gave yesterday and her flip would give me useful info on multiple other players.



Because everyone is being sketchballz af this game or minimally contributing/not answering questions. I feel like Barks is the only person who is seems normal, is being logical, and is legitimately wolf-hunting using semi-concrete logic instead of wild speculations or throwing shade. Could I be wrong on her, of course, but right now that's how I'm reading her. I could also potentially move Paws into my village leans category, but I feel more comfortable in my "neutral village" pile right now.



I'm not voting for Sporty, yet.

So, you peaked my interest to go and see why you like bark so much as a villager, so I did an Iso. I have pulled out all posts that contain strategy, left posts that are short answers to maybe not so strategy based questions, questions in general, and any fluff. Here is what I have:

Lynch Dina

It’d be more concerning to me if people stayed on their joke votes all day if there are better lynch candidates that come up later

Interesting discourse from Barkley early on. Lynched Dina very early for simply not being able to read them and left the vote on it all day.

So far I'm feeling good about AM, pippy, paws
Also feeling okay about genny, cubs, doggo but gonna wait to see more to really decide

Which is nice, but not really much evidence there simply feels in general.

I mean you’ve both been posting a lot more than most people and what I’ve read has sounded good to me and hasn’t set off any alarm bells

Defending why, simply saying lack of alarm bells, which goes back to feels.

I said I feel okay about them so far but still want to see more, not that they’re definitely village. I feel like cubs usually jokes around a lot of posts fluff to start and I liked genny’s posts about Nav

Not quite backtracking, but going down to a less firm, more malleable stance.

Unless I missed it you still haven’t said why stagg is in your wolf leans though.

Questioning of someone's thoughts on another can be seen as a weak defense of said person.

Lynch emlady

Started getting feels yesterday when she came on, posted one post saying she was here and asking what people wanted, and then disappearing again. Her two long posts don’t say much about her reads and seem to be asking questions, bringing up things that have already been addressed, or just commenting on things that have happened without saying thoughts on it.

First time we have done a full rationale on someone. Essentially a lynch for inactivity.

Lynch em

Same reasons as yesterday plus didn’t like how the people she finds sketchy are only the people who voted for her yesterday

A little interesting added insight there, first time I found interesting reads from them up until this point.

I'm gonna go ISO cubs and Nav but I feel fine about cubs and Nav is starting to sketch me out so maybe I'm missing something

Fair enough, let's see the evidence.

I'm still not getting wolfy for cubs

We still don't know why they are not getting wolfy for cubs.

I didn’t say to ignore the write ups or that they weren’t useful. I think write ups are definitely use and it’s fine if you’re able to determine someone is wolfy off of that. The problem is with using names alone.

Also fair enough.

I think one of the posts on me also didn't transfer even though I multiquoted.

So thus far @Stagg737 This is their analysis. What is very logical and groundbreaking that you have noticed thus far?

 

[Navilly]

@PippyPony @Stagg737 or anyone else who really knows about this (just remember them two commenting on it most)

Have you seen decreases in AM's enthusiasm following conversion in the past?

 

[PippyPony]

@PippyPony @Stagg737 or anyone else who really knows about this (just remember them two commenting on it most)

Have you seen decreases in AM's enthusiasm following conversion in the past?

Ahahahahaha

Maybe you should ask AM that.

 

[Animal Midwife]

You serious? Sporty and you both voted for Cubs moments after Pippy's post earlier. Navi is willing to push a Cubs vote to see the flip. Several players have softly defended Cubs. What info do you think it's going to give 😵

I don't know. That's why I'm asking. I don't just write questions to see myself type.

Again, seriously? Your participation and questioning has declined to the point that even Pippy and Dubz have commented on it. You're not aggressively pushing questions (until now) like usual. You've been supporting talk about mechanics, which...what? Beyond that you seemed to be implying that Dina vig shot at Genny who she had only mildly mentioned as suspecting in passing, so why the heck would she use a vig kill D2 on someone she didn't even suspect who would provide little info to village. She's a better player than that. Too many things in conjunction from you that's off and which I find straight up bizarre to let slide. Plus you asked someone to push you, so you're welcome.

Don't make things up. No where am I having any part of the mechanics discussion nor am I encouraging it. As I told Pippy, order of operations works like that quite frequently and I don't see the issue in bringing it up. Is the game unsolvable now from me saying that?

You're implying holstering is better play, which I will always disagree with until I'm proven otherwise.

There are specific posts that pinged me (already explained reasoning for EM with posts, you can use the search function for that), said I'm not leaning heavily wolfy on Cubs but would give info. Reasoning for you is above. I'll look up Sporty later if you want, but don't have time to dig right now.

So just the fact that I proposed it could be a vig shot. Am I understanding correctly?

Well I don't completely believe in my wolf reads at this point, so there you go. Today is a busy day so I've mostly skimmed. Will be able to actually look back tonight/tomorrow and re-evaluate, but that's where I stand right now.

And this is problematic. When will you start believing in them?

 

[Animal Midwife]

@PippyPony @Stagg737 or anyone else who really knows about this (just remember them two commenting on it most)

Have you seen decreases in AM's enthusiasm following conversion in the past?

My stance is that it should be saved for last, and not because it's the best.

 

[Navilly]

My stance is that it should be saved for last, and not because it's the best.

For someone who likes specific questions, you didn’t actually answer it

 

[Animal Midwife]

For someone who likes specific questions, you didn’t actually answer it

I thought that was the answer.

 

[Navilly]

I thought that was the answer.

Let’s try again.

Do you become less enthusiastic in games after you are converted?

Do you become less invested in games after you are converted?

Have you been converted? (Worth a try, no?)

 

[Animal Midwife]

Let’s try again.

Do you become less enthusiastic in games after you are converted?

Do you become less invested in games after you are converted?

Have you been converted? (Worth a try, no?)

Oh. I can't really really answer that because the only times I been converted it was really early in the game, so I don't know if anything changed drastically. @WildZoo? Or anyone else that was in/spectated those games? I felt like I posting the same efforts though.

 

[Stagg737]

So thus far @Stagg737 This is their analysis. What is very logical and groundbreaking that you have noticed thus far?

Never said anything was ground-breaking, but her reasoning for EM was spot on with what I had thought and I felt like there was a lot of mind-meld with what I was thinking as I've read the thread. Maybe she's unknowingly pocketing me a bit, but everything she said has made perfect sense without excessive speculation. Idk what her reasoning is for Cubs not seeming wolfy, but I'd guess it's probably similar to mine.

Don't make things up. No where am I having any part of the mechanics discussion nor am I encouraging it. As I told Pippy, order of operations works like that quite frequently and I don't see the issue in bringing it up. Is the game unsolvable now from me saying that?

You're implying holstering is better play, which I will always disagree with until I'm proven otherwise.

Of course not, but the implications of the stance you were taking didn't make me happy. You're better at analysis than that.

And I disagree with the holstering point. I'm not saying it should be held until endgame or even necessarily mid-game. But using it early on a random player whose flip will not yield significant info is just dumb for obvious reasons. Besides, between write-ups and kill choice I think it was fairly obvious Genny wasn't vig killed, and it was weird that you were perpetuating that as a reasonable possibility.

So just the fact that I proposed it could be a vig shot. Am I understanding correctly?

Don't be obtuse.

And this is problematic. When will you start believing in them?

After I can read back and re-evaluate. Tonight at the earliest, but likely sometime tomorrow. Normally would be around today (D3) but today is too busy for that and there's too many pages to read through again.

 

[Stagg737]

Let’s try again.

Do you become less enthusiastic in games after you are converted?

Do you become less invested in games after you are converted?

Have you been converted? (Worth a try, no?)

Only time I can recall was in Orchestra, and she handled it very well there as her and Mel powerwolfed to a sweep.

 

[Navilly]

Okay, so with that said, if people do not believe there is a change in behavior when she is converted, why is everyone so concerned about a several hour lapse in posting on Animal Midwife’s end that occurred on day 3?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Of course not, but the implications of the stance you were taking didn't make me happy. You're better at analysis than that.

And I disagree with the holstering point. I'm not saying it should be held until endgame or even necessarily mid-game. But using it early on a random player whose flip will not yield significant info is just dumb for obvious reasons. Besides, between write-ups and kill choice I think it was fairly obvious Genny wasn't vig killed, and it was weird that you were perpetuating that as a reasonable possibility.

What's wrong with the implications?

Don't be obtuse.

Don't be vague.