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LetItSnow said:
Yeah, exactly. I don't even worry so much about an adult sticking the patch on themselves - the dosing probably wouldn't cause significant risk. But some little kid swallowing one? That could be tragic. I just don't want that on my license. I feel like they used to be used more but now.... I'm not even sure we actually have any in hospital anymore. Just none of us want the risk associated with sending fentanyl home in any form.

For hospitalized patients it definitely could make more sense to me.
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We had a client who "lost" all of the buprenorphine oral syringes we gave him within like two hours of the cat's discharge. People don't seem to care that a total 1ml of something won't give them their desired effect, lol. He got very angry when my Dr. refused to send home meds and told him he'd have to come in daily for the cat to get something injectable.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
We had a client who "lost" all of the buprenorphine oral syringes we gave him within like two hours of the cat's discharge. People don't seem to care that a total 1ml of something won't give them their desired effect, lol. He got very angry when my Dr. refused to send home meds and told him he'd have to come in daily for the cat to get something injectable.
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For sure - there are plenty of seekers, and they usually become obvious fairly quick. I honestly don't worry <too> much about them - even if I inadvertently supply a 'seeker', one episode like that isn't likely to have a detrimental effect on my license. And as an ER doctor, I don't usually send home more than 5-7 days worth of meds at most. But I'd do the same thing your doctor did (well; what I'd actually do is give a 3-day dose and say "get your next dose at your RDVM").

So what I worry about is more "is what I'm sending home enough to hurt them?" I figure an incident like that is more likely to cause me licensing grief.

Honestly, it's always bugged me that it's considered our issue. Like, why should it be my problem what someone does with the drugs I send home, provided they were legitimately prescribed and dispensed and appropriate owner education was given.
 
Amusingly, my boss just tells everyone that the drugs will make them throw up. :laugh:

"What would happen if I took this tramadol?"
"You'll throw up."

"Wish I could get hooked up on hydro like that dog!"
"No you don't, it'll make you throw up."

"Wow, you give gabapentin? I got that once!"
"My gabapentin will make you throw up, though."

I think it's hilarious. Meanwhile, like half of our non-clinic staff just think all veterinary drugs are designed to make people vomit.
 
Also, I never understood the whole "I lost it!"/"It mysteriously went missing!" shtick. We had a guy who worked for us (very briefly) and he always claimed meds were missing when he did weekend meds. Really? Only the controlled drugs go missing out of all of the meds for twenty dogs, and only when we have you do meds? Hmmmm :thinking:
 
vetmedhead said:
Amusingly, my boss just tells everyone that the drugs will make them throw up. :laugh:

"What would happen if I took this tramadol?"
"You'll throw up."

"Wish I could get hooked up on hydro like that dog!"
"No you don't, it'll make you throw up."

"Wow, you give gabapentin? I got that once!"
"My gabapentin will make you throw up, though."

I think it's hilarious. Meanwhile, like half of our non-clinic staff just think all veterinary drugs are designed to make people vomit.
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I really enjoy this 🤣
 
SkiOtter said:
I really enjoy this 🤣
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What makes it better is half of our drugs would probably make you throw up if you took enough of them. Somehow being half true makes it seem more truthful.

Even better, we have huge bottles of pyrantel pamoate that are banana flavored because that suspension is the concentration we use but it was cheaper to buy a suspension that was technically formulated to give to children for pinworms. She still tells people it will make them throw up lol
 
vetmedhead said:
Even better, we have huge bottles of pyrantel pamoate that are banana flavored because that suspension is the concentration we use but it was cheaper to buy a suspension that was technically formulated to give to children for pinworms. She still tells people it will make them throw up lol
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Yoooo we have that same pyrantel at both my jobs
 
vetmedhead said:
Amusingly, my boss just tells everyone that the drugs will make them throw up. :laugh:

"What would happen if I took this tramadol?"
"You'll throw up."

"Wish I could get hooked up on hydro like that dog!"
"No you don't, it'll make you throw up."

"Wow, you give gabapentin? I got that once!"
"My gabapentin will make you throw up, though."

I think it's hilarious. Meanwhile, like half of our non-clinic staff just think all veterinary drugs are designed to make people vomit.
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But on a real note though don't take dog tramadol for yourself was working in a pharmacy at a hospital one time and the pharmacist had to go council the person on why taking their dog's tramadol was bad...
 
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LetItSnow said:
For sure - there are plenty of seekers, and they usually become obvious fairly quick. I honestly don't worry <too> much about them - even if I inadvertently supply a 'seeker', one episode like that isn't likely to have a detrimental effect on my license. And as an ER doctor, I don't usually send home more than 5-7 days worth of meds at most. But I'd do the same thing your doctor did (well; what I'd actually do is give a 3-day dose and say "get your next dose at your RDVM").

So what I worry about is more "is what I'm sending home enough to hurt them?" I figure an incident like that is more likely to cause me licensing grief.

Honestly, it's always bugged me that it's considered our issue. Like, why should it be my problem what someone does with the drugs I send home, provided they were legitimately prescribed and dispensed and appropriate owner education was given.
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Right. If it's being prescribed, there is clearly a condition where the animal needs it. Not to pass any sort of judgment on MDs, but dogs don't come in faking a limp.


Then there are the people that intentionally hurt their animals in order to get pain meds...

MixedAnimals77 said:
But on a real note though
don't take dog tramadol for yourself was working in a pharmacy at a hospital one time and the pharmacist had to go council them on why taking their dog's transform was bad...
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I was under the impression that they're the same, as are many drugs used in vet med. What exactly is the difference? Generic vs. brand name can be different, but I wasn't aware of anything other than that.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Right. If it's being prescribed, there is clearly a condition where the animal needs it. Not to pass any sort of judgment on MDs, but dogs don't come in faking a limp.


Then there are the people that intentionally hurt their animals in order to get pain meds...


I was under the impression that they're the same, as are many drugs used in vet med. What exactly is the difference? Generic vs. brand name can be different, but I wasn't aware of anything other than that.
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I'm not exactly sure that there is a difference. It was a long while back so it's a bit fuzzy but I do remember they took too much. Hence why they were in the hospital and got lectured on why they shouldn't take the dog's drugs and should get a legit script if they really need it.
 
MixedAnimals77 said:
I'm not exactly sure that there is a difference. It was a long while back so it's a bit fuzzy but I do remember they took too much. Hence why they were in the hospital and got lectured on why they shouldn't take the dog's drugs and should get a legit script if they really need it.
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Ahhh I see what you're saying now.

Before you replied, I was trying to Google differences between 'veterinary' and human tramadol. Only found forums where drug users were asking the same thing to see if they could take their dogs' tramadol. Sad to think a dog had to suffer through real pain because its owner had to get high.
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Ahhh I see what you're saying now.

Before you replied, I was trying to Google differences between 'veterinary' and human tramadol. Only found forums where drug users were asking the same thing to see if they could take their dogs' tramadol. Sad to think a dog had to suffer through real pain because its owner had to get high.
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Yeah. Sorry, I should've been a bit more clear on that. Regardless don't take your dog's tramadol they need that.

On a side note: human med is weird imo. I mean I've seen some pretty messed up cases in vet med because of humans, but I was recently hired in a hospital lab til I go to vet school and some of those notes on the ER board...like what are you even doing with your life?
 
Elkhart said:
Venting. Will probably delete later, so please don't quote.
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Have you tried talking to anyone about career/next step advice? I'm sure the vet you worked for at school, or your advisor from your bio degree, or maybe a professor you built a relationship with in undergrad would be happy to talk with you about where you are now and what career options might be in your future. Last spring I reached out to several professors I knew from college and a couple different vets I worked with to get advice after my second rejection. That was really helpful. Maybe try your advisor first, and see what advice they have for you?
 
MixedAnimals77 said:
But on a real note though don't take dog tramadol for yourself was working in a pharmacy at a hospital one time and the pharmacist had to go council the person on why taking their dog's tramadol was bad...
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Why would I take my dog's tramadol? It'll make me throw up 😉
 
orca2011 said:
Opioid shortage. Hate that the only good option for large breed dogs is morphine (at east where I'm at due to costs, etc).
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Thanks for mentioning this and everyone else (esp LIS, good suggestions) who posted regarding this topic.

We are getting by with the hydro that’s a higher concentration but yeah, shortage of opioids sucks. And, the fact that I found out over the weekend, opioids are going to be even harder to find thanks to the government/human meds? Yeah, not feeling too optimistic at the moment....

vetmedhead said:
Even better, we have huge bottles of pyrantel pamoate that are banana flavored because that suspension is the concentration we use but it was cheaper to buy a suspension that was technically formulated to give to children for pinworms. She still tells people it will make them throw up lo
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Our strongid T is vanilla cupcake flavored...
 
cdoconn said:
wait, (from my 3 weeks of parasitology class) I thought pinworms were so host specific that human pinworms don’t affect other species, and vice versa?
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We’re talking about deworming puppies and kitties for hooks and rounds using the same pyrantel bottle that is available to get rid of Pinworms in human children, so it happens to be a fun flavor, versus the more expensive pyrantel sold specifically for veterinary use
 
SkiOtter said:
We’re talking about deworming puppies and kitties for hooks and rounds using the same pyrantel bottle that is available to get rid of Pinworms in human children, so it happens to be a fun flavor, versus the more expensive pyrantel sold specifically for veterinary use
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oh so you’re just talking about the flavor? Gotcha, I thought you were talking about flavor that also killed all the correct parasites
 
cdoconn said:
oh so you’re just talking about the flavor? Gotcha, I thought you were talking about flavor that also killed all the correct parasites
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Yep the pyrantel we use is formulated for children for pinworms so it’s a fun flavor but it also gets hooks and rounds in dogs and cats and is cheaper so it’s what we use.
 
SkiOtter said:
Yep the pyrantel we use is formulated for children for pinworms so it’s a fun flavor but it also gets hooks and rounds in dogs and cats and is cheaper so it’s what we use.
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I think we use cattle strongid (but it’s been almost 2 years since working there) that’s been treated for hooks & rounds and is a banana flavored, but I’m not all that sure anymore. :laugh:
 
cdoconn said:
wait, (from my 3 weeks of parasitology class) I thought pinworms were so host specific that human pinworms don’t affect other species, and vice versa?
Click to expand...

cdoconn said:
I think we use cattle strongid (but it’s been almost 2 years since working there) that’s been treated for hooks & rounds and is a banana flavored, but I’m not all that sure anymore. :laugh:
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We used to use horse pyrantel but now I guess the child version is cheaper.

As for the meds themselves, remember that the parasites can be host specific but the ways to get rid of them don't necessarily have to be species specific. Frequently a drug that affects one type of parasite will affect many other parasites of the same type. This is why you generally wouldn't need a different medication for each species of mite or flea infesting an animal, for example.
 
vetmedhead said:
We used to use horse pyrantel but now I guess the child version is cheaper.

As for the meds themselves, remember that the parasites can be host specific but the ways to get rid of them don't necessarily have to be species specific. Frequently a drug that affects one type of parasite will affect many other parasites of the same type. This is why you generally wouldn't need a different medication for each species of mite or flea infesting an animal, for example.
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oh I don’t know how to get rid of parasites. That’s a task for a level 2 vet student, I’m only a level 1.5 :laugh:
 
cdoconn said:
oh I don’t know how to get rid of parasites. That’s a task for a level 2 vet student, I’m only a level 1.5 :laugh:
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We haven't really gone over antiparasite drug groups or anything, but our professor has been giving us cases where we have to read through labels and determine if the medications are being given correctly, if they would actually treat the underlying issue, if using them for XYZ thing would be considered extralabel use (and if it is, would that extralabel use work?), etc. It helps a lot with getting an idea of what products are out there and good ways to troubleshoot parasite control issues
 
vetmedhead said:
We haven't really gone over antiparasite drug groups or anything, but our professor has been giving us cases where we have to read through labels and determine if the medications are being given correctly, if they would actually treat the underlying issue, if using them for XYZ thing would be considered extralabel use (and if it is, would that extralabel use work?), etc. It helps a lot with getting an idea of what products are out there and good ways to troubleshoot parasite control issues
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Troubleshooting parasitic infestation problems is SUPER easy: "Follow up with your pDVM please and thank you."
 
LetItSnow said:
Troubleshooting parasitic infestation problems is SUPER easy: "Follow up with your pDVM please and thank you."
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I always loved when our officers would intake animals after hours and bring some of the slightly worse for wear ones to the emergency hospital. Basically 100% of our strays have fleas (+ hooks, + tapes, + rounds, + everything else) and any animal that didn't have anything acute/emergent wrong with them would get a medical that basically said "We gave it capstar, have fun". :laugh: They would occasionally get drontal plus if the docs were feeling particularly saucy that day.
 
LetItSnow said:
But then you remember the stupid hours I work, how often I have to do CPR, how I euth 10x the number of patients, and you're ok again? 🙂
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👍 absolutely. I know myself well enough to know I'd burn the **** out in no time in ER. But man I do groan sometimes managing the things punted back to me, haha. Especially when punted back with no money now, which is nobody's fault but still frustrating.

I've been on a killing spree at work recently (seriously; I recently made up a small tray of all the stuff I need instead of gathering it all every time and stashed it in the safe...) and it just reminds me how much I couldn't do ER. Nope nope nope.
 
LetItSnow said:
But then you remember the stupid hours I work, how often I have to do CPR, how I euth 10x the number of patients, and you're ok again? 🙂
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I really enjoyed working in the ICU this summer, but did not enjoy how many times I helped with cpr. Especially the open chest. That’s ingrained in my memory forever.
 
LetItSnow said:
Troubleshooting parasitic infestation problems is SUPER easy: "Follow up with your pDVM please and thank you."
Click to expand...

I'm totally fine with this. Parasites are easy, you keep your hyperosmolar, hypernatremic **** shows and I'll rid the animals of the parasites.
 
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cdoconn said:
oh I don’t know how to get rid of parasites. That’s a task for a level 2 vet student, I’m only a level 1.5 :laugh:
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You guys don't talk about treatments in your parasit class?? Weird...
 
LyraGardenia said:
You guys don't talk about treatments in your parasit class?? Weird...
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I don't really recall it being a big part of our parasitology class. @kcoughli @supershorty ... I know you guys have the blended "Infectious Diseases" classes now, but for the parasit portion, did they talk about treatment, mechanism of action for the treatments, etc.? Or did they leave it for pharm classes?
 
vetmedhead said:
They might save it for a pharm class or not review large groups of parasite treatments until the very end of the class and everyone is familiar with the organisms/can see bigger picture treatment options
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Interesting. We'll be covering the mechanisms of action in pharm this semester, but we definitely went over treatment options/prevention strategies for each parasite, fairly in depth for all the important ones (but we didn't have to memorize dosages/dosing intervals, other than for heartworm preventives).
 
LyraGardenia said:
You guys don't talk about treatments in your parasit class?? Weird...
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We have 2 parasit classes actually. One spring of year 1, one fall of year 2. Technically a lot more when you count electives and 4th year rotations. Treatment is next semester along with more parasites. :laugh:
 
LetItSnow said:
I don't really recall it being a big part of our parasitology class. @kcoughli @supershorty ... I know you guys have the blended "Infectious Diseases" classes now, but for the parasit portion, did they talk about treatment, mechanism of action for the treatments, etc.? Or did they leave it for pharm classes?
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I like how you think I remember things like that... but I think for the most part it was just life cycles, unintelligible words (wtf is a scolex anyway), and horrible powerpoint slides. But not really treatments, just agent and disease (and they call it "Agents of Disease" go figure).
 
kcoughli said:
I like how you think I remember things like that... but I think for the most part it was just life cycles, unintelligible words (wtf is a scolex anyway), and horrible powerpoint slides. But not really treatments, just agent and disease (and they call it "Agents of Disease" go figure).
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Hey. You're young(er) and you did it slightly more recently than me. And you do all that weird lab-animal stuff where you probably know about all those weird things. You remembered 'scolex' after all. 🙂

You know how we all remember one-off weird stuff that we have no reason to remember? I remember Eimeria truncata, the goose parasite. No idea why.
 
vetmedhead said:
What makes it better is half of our drugs would probably make you throw up if you took enough of them. Somehow being half true makes it seem more truthful.

Even better, we have huge bottles of pyrantel pamoate that are banana flavored because that suspension is the concentration we use but it was cheaper to buy a suspension that was technically formulated to give to children for pinworms. She still tells people it will make them throw up lol
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Wasn't there a news article a few months ago where some people broke into a vet hospital and stole a bunch of drugs, including apomorphine 😆. Oh, how poetic.
 
Skimble said:
Wasn't there a news article a few months ago where some people broke into a vet hospital and stole a bunch of drugs, including apomorphine 😆. Oh, how poetic.
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That would just be the BEST.

"Look, Dudez! It says morphine! Let's get high!"

<Barf barf barf barf>

As an aside, I'm always surprised by how many *vets* think apomorphine binds opioid receptors. Sigh.
 
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