The ultimate COVID thread

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ChiDO said:
Ya because adding all this unnecessary non-sense like diversity requirements, carbon footprint offsets are really important right now. A pro-business bill helps the American economy. You know who employs people, businesses.
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Trickle-down economics will never die.
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Mad Jack said:
The problem wasn't helping businesses, it was the free reign to hand out money to whomever AND to hide whom that money was going to. Pelosi's proposals are equally as asinine.
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Welcome to the SWAMP. These trillion dollar PORK filled laws rarely help the little guy much but certainly help the friends of those who pass the pork.
That's why I am against them because they do little to help the average working joe.
 
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just something to remember as the dire predictions roll in....
 
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JobsFan,

You have been correct on this Pandemic up until now. I think the stock market is going to bottom in the USA very soon. I can feel the sentiment shifting on Wall Street as the sellers are exhausted. There is simply nobody left to sell stocks. Goldman Sachs predicted 2,000 and I think 2100 will hold. We shall see.

www.cnbc.com

If Congress doesn't act now on a coronavirus aid package, BTIG's Julian Emanuel sees stocks plunging another 20%

BTIG's Julian Emanuel warns the U.S. economy needs immediate help beyond what the Federal Reserve can do.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com

The new 2 trillion dollar stimulus bill may be the deciding factor whether we drop another 20% from here. Without it, that 1800 level on the S and P looks likely. But, if they pass this PORK the market will likely stabilize around 2,000-2100.
 
Mman said:
you sell before it happens, which is what they did for insider trading, but the really rich people do not have 100% of their savings in equity. They are broadly diversified (if they are smart) and can afford to dump cash into equities as they bottom.
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At the end of the day, most people (including the uber wealthy) still have their assets allocated in such a fashion that the S&P dropping 40% is going to hurt their bottom line and their net worth. When the economic hit is bad enough, all assets outside of short term treasuries start plunging including equities, corporate bonds, oil, gold, and real estate.

There are a few wealthy people here and there like Buffett who aren't overly leveraged and who have a ton of dry powder, but your blanket statement that all (or even the vast majority) of wealthy people love this S&P drop isn't accurate.
 
vector2 said:
At the end of the day, most people (including the uber wealthy) still have their assets allocated in such a fashion that the S&P dropping 40% is going to hurt their bottom line and their net worth. When the economic hit is bad enough, all assets outside of short term treasuries start plunging including equities, corporate bonds, oil, gold, and real estate.

There are a few wealthy people here and there like Buffett who aren't overly leveraged and who have a ton of dry powder, but your blanket statement that all (or even the vast majority) of wealthy people love this S&P drop isn't accurate.
Click to expand...

Look at Gold. The only 2 assets that held up in this crash as well as 2008. You can learn a lot from this lesson as you decide to diversify your assets in the coming decade. In the next 5-8 years as the "Bull" returns to Wall Street I will be putting a significant portion of my portfolio into those asset classes. The reason I even mention Gold is that the U.S. currency is likely to have issues once we pass a certain level of debt. I do not believe a nation can print or borrow its way to prosperity.

At some point the 35 or 40 Trillion dollar debt is going to matter I just don't know when.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
Look at Gold. The only 2 assets that held up in this crash as well as 2008. You can learn a lot from this lesson as you decide to diversify your assets in the coming decade. In the next 5-8 years as the "Bull" returns to Wall Street I will be putting a significant portion of my portfolio into those asset classes. The reason I even mention Gold is that the U.S. currency is likely to have issues once we pass a certain level of debt. I do not believe a nation can print or borrow its way to prosperity.
Click to expand...

Sorry, gold is dumb, especially if anyone wants to make it more than 2-5% of their total portfolio. No dividends, no interest, not really a good hedge, and gets destroyed in the total return category when put up against almost any other asset.


At some point the 35 or 40 Trillion dollar debt is going to matter I just don't know when.
Click to expand...
It will never matter as long as nominal 10 year Treasury rates are less than nominal GDP growth rates. The more interesting question is whether near-infinite GDP growth is a real thing or merely philosophical. I'm of the opinion that the human race will either have moved past money as a concept (Star Trek style) or we'll all be dead before we really have to figure that out.
 

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DocMcCoy said:
Looks like White House is using death rate as a measure of success. It stays around 1% and we aren’t hearing stories of widespread healthcare systems overload, I’m betting at the end of”15 days” or whatever arbitrary time frame they set, everything opens back up.

I kind of think it’s a good strategy. Up tick in cases/fatalities down the road then option to tighten the screws again if needed. Don’t further ruin the economy in the process (hopefully)
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That means no sports leagues, music festivals, conventions, major events of any kind etc. These take large crowds and planning and can't be done when you continually shut down off and on for a year and a half.
 
BLADEMDA said:
No. Certain cities have a low infection rate. Allow local Mayors and Governors to have input into what stays shut down and for how long.
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Oh I agree with this, never said I didn't. America is large enough that a one size fits all approach doesn't work
 
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vector2 said:
At the end of the day, most people (including the uber wealthy) still have their assets allocated in such a fashion that the S&P dropping 40% is going to hurt their bottom line and their net worth. When the economic hit is bad enough, all assets outside of short term treasuries start plunging including equities, corporate bonds, oil, gold, and real estate.

There are a few wealthy people here and there like Buffett who aren't overly leveraged and who have a ton of dry powder, but your blanket statement that all (or even the vast majority) of wealthy people love this S&P drop isn't accurate.
Click to expand...

the problem is that even people a drop in the S&P benefits do not love it. I mean almost anyone under 50 should be ecstatic about it. That they aren't says more about their emotional state than it does about any logical reason to be sad about it.

So the fact it is good for you does not mean people are going to like it, but that's because people are not intelligent and rational beings.
 
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ChiDO said:
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Crenshaw is a liar and a propagandist.


The iteration of the Senate GOP bill that actually came out Thursday didn't cap compensation at 425,000. It said that if an executive or employee made more than 425,000 that it was capped at that level (so if you make $15m, you can continue making $15m). The first version of the bill also has nothing in writing about stopping buybacks or prohibiting bailout companies from laying off workers.


1585017264087.png

Document Viewer : NPR

apps.npr.org apps.npr.org
 
vector2 said:
Sorry, gold is dumb, especially if anyone wants to make it more than 2-5% of their total portfolio. No dividends, no interest, not really a good hedge, and gets destroyed in the total return category when put up against almost any other asset.



It will never matter as long as nominal 10 year Treasury rates are less than nominal GDP growth rates. The more interesting question is whether near-infinite GDP growth is a real thing or merely philosophical. I'm of the opinion that the human race will either have moved past money as a concept (Star Trek style) or we'll all be dead before we really have to figure that out.
Click to expand...
"It (basically, infinite debt) will never matter as long as.........."
Hold on, hold on, wait a sec....
BWAAHAAHAHAHA ....
Ok, Give me a sec... Gotta catch my breath...
BWAAAAHAAHAHAAAA ....
Oh God, Oh God, you're killing me... you're killing me...
 
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what the
BLADEMDA said:
Trump can't allow the economy to remain closed for a long period of time. His re-election depends on 2 things: Coronavirus containment and economic prosperity. I have no idea how long this country can remain closed for business and still bounce back enough for "prosperity" so Trump wins the election. I suspect that any shut-down longer than 4 weeks will do a great deal of economic harm exceeding the harm from Covid 19.
Click to expand...

he could just go for demonstrating capable leadership in a time of crisis - it works for most war time leaders
 
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We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
"It (basically, infinite debt) will never matter as long as.........."
Hold on, hold on, wait a sec....
BWAAHAAHAHAHA ....
Ok, Give me a sec... Gotta catch my breath...
BWAAAAHAAHAHAAAA ....
Oh God, Oh God, you're killing me... you're killing me...
Click to expand...

You laugh....and yet the free market and every domestic and foreign buyer of trillions of dollars worth of 10 year and 30 year US treasury bonds thinks the going rate should be <1% and 1.4% respectively.

Now, either you and every other national debt howler knows something that the entire rest of the world doesn't, orrrrrrrr the reasonable expectation is that we are only 30-40 years into a new technological revolution, US GDP growth has a long way to go (at least 100-200+ years), the government will continue to exist with the ability to tax, and thus we will easily be able to service our debt for the forseeable future.
 
I was in that small group of people at the beginning of shutdown that said you'll have to balance economic collapse vs lives saved. It seems both Trump and Cuomo are leaning that way saying, We can't shut down the economy indefinitely. I gotta say, I don't feel I won anything. It makes me very sad that if there is no Plaquenil miracle or something else to get out of this mess then elder dead bodies may be stacking very high in coming weeks.
 
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We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes said:
I was in that small group of people at the beginning of shutdown that said you'll have to balance economic collapse vs lives saved. It seems both Trump and Cuomo are leaning that way saying, We can't shut down the economy indefinitely. I gotta say, I don't feel I won anything. It makes me very sad that if there is no Plaquenil miracle or something else to get out of this mess then elder dead bodies may be stacking very high in coming weeks.
Click to expand...

It will be really interesting to watch is how economic and political dynamics will change with this crisis.

Will "socialism" carry the same stigma it has for generations?

Will populism win out, or will we all look plaintively to the biotech and manufacturing giants as our saviors for the foreseeable future?

Will "universal healthcare" now be a universally-pursued goal?

Are doctors regaining the societal standing they enjoyed in the 80s and earlier?
 
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Mikkel said:
Just admit it, you're smiling at the possibility of tens of thousands of service workers employed by Trump to get laid off. It's sick, but not totally unexpected. Orange man bad!!!!!
Click to expand...

Come on, you're being deliberately obtuse.

You know he's objecting to the lack of transparency, not the bailout. You know this. Stop trolling.
 
So I've just read up on the criteria for testing, and the whole system is made to 1. limit testing, 2. make money for the hospitals.

Ergo, the whole data about various morbidity/mortality rates is worthless, because we only test people who are either sick enough to go to a doctor or have been in contact with a Covid patient. Even the latter cannot get a test without seeing a doctor first, which is so *****ic it's beyond ridiculous. Let's not mention the fact that commercial tests are not free (on top of the cost of the obligatory medical consult).

Ergo, we probably have a TON more people infected than we think, which are cooking the disease as we speak. Good luck letting them back to work; it will be a disaster. Especially during a recession, people will think twice before risking being charged hundreds of dollars if they don't feel really sick. What a royally dumb solution for a public health issue!
 
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BLADEMDA said:
The firm (Goldman) forecasts the S&P 500 could be in for a 41% fall from peak to trough. Bank of America Corp. believes the selloff might not ease until the S&P 500 hits 1800—a 47% drop from its February record.
Click to expand...
Ouch, we are getting closer to my numbers. :p

As I said, wait till NYC goes to hell in about a week. And till our numbers skyrocket, a week or two after the supreme leader sends some people back to work.
 
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Mikkel said:
I've thought about it. Hence why I have a few dozen guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition.
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That's ridiculous. How many gunfights do you think you're likely to survive? You going to outfit and train a platoon of neckbeards to protect your neighborhood from the Harley club in the subdivision over yonder?

If you're just a hobbyist, more power to you. I own a few guns as well ;), as well as ammunition and reloading components for somewhere around 70-80,000 rounds. I have four reloading presses on a veritable assembly line. I'm sure if someone sent CNN a photo of my workshop I'd be their latest pearl-clutching headline about crazy right wing extremist gun freaks. But that's not apocalypse planning for a Mad Max world, that's Democrat planning so I can practice and compete during the buying frenzy and bans that will come with our next Democratic administration. Also, ammo is expensive, reloading is less so, and I normally shoot many thousands of rounds per year in practice and competition.

In 2009 idiots were buying up all the 22lr because some internet wizard pushed this theory that it would be de-facto currency after civilization collapsed and, I don't know, the survivors were going to be subsistence squirrel hunters or something.


Mikkel said:
Most people who've put a few thoughts towards disasters like this have already stockpiled enough food, water, and self protection to get through this.
Click to expand...

Disaster preparedness in the firearm realm is a pistol, a rifle, and enough ammunition to carry and expend staying proficient. I'm not sure we do ourselves or the firearm-owing community any favors when we tout "a few dozen guns and thousands of rounds of ammunition" as disaster preparedness though.

I agree with you on the rest of the preparedness items. Ants and grasshoppers.


Mikkel said:
The panic you're seeing at Walmart and Costco is the realization of millions of people that the federal government is not their friend. The panic you're seeing in California gunshops is the realization of millions of people that the government of California couldn't give a rats tail for improving the safety of its lawful citizens.

If you're looking to the government to solve your problems, I got a trailer park to sell you.
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Totally agree.

The police can't protect you, even if they wanted to (which they don't), even if they could (which they can't).
 
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Nephro critical care said:
Put a 10% one time wealth tax on all people with assets > $ 1 Million. Send all America home for 2 months with a $2000 monthly check. No Rent / mortgage for these 2 months and health insurance is free. Resume normal life after 2 months. Coronavirus pandemic over June 1.
Click to expand...

You just have no clue at all.

Here, run this little thought experiment - think through how the government would collect 10% of the assets of "rich" people. Go ahead. Step by step. Think it through and do the math. Bear in mind that their assets are mostly in real estate and the stock market.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
The firm (Goldman) forecasts the S&P 500 could be in for a 41% fall from peak to trough. Bank of America Corp. believes the selloff might not ease until the S&P 500 hits 1800—a 47% drop from its February record.
Click to expand...

just keep in mind they aren't forecasting based off anything scientific. It's not like the weather predicting a 60% chance of rain tomorrow based on actual science. The forecasts literally mean nothing. I mean they can't even accurately measure GDP in real time as it always gets revised after the fact.
 
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FFP said:
So I've just read up on the criteria for testing, and the whole system is made to 1. limit testing, 2. make money for the hospitals.

Ergo, the whole data about various morbidity/mortality rates is worthless, because we only test people who are either sick enough to go to a doctor or have been in contact with a Covid patient. Even the latter cannot get a test without seeing a doctor first, which is so *****ic it's beyond ridiculous. Let's not mention the fact that commercial tests are not free (on top of the cost of the obligatory medical consult).

Ergo, we probably have a TON more people infected than we think, which are cooking the disease as we speak. Good luck letting them back to work; it will be a disaster. Especially during a recession, people will think twice before risking being charged hundreds of dollars if they don't feel really sick. What a royally dumb solution for a public health issue!
Click to expand...

Ironically, if we (the taxpayer) would just provide the upfront money for mass, widespread testing, we could isolate and quarantine much faster and thus avoid the economic cost of a recession
 
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BLADEMDA said:
JobsFan,

You have been correct on this Pandemic up until now. I think the stock market is going to bottom in the USA very soon. I can feel the sentiment shifting on Wall Street as the sellers are exhausted. There is simply nobody left to sell stocks. Goldman Sachs predicted 2,000 and I think 2100 will hold. We shall see.
Click to expand...
I hope you're right.
I think Goldman Sachs is optimistic, would love to be wrong though.
 
Pelosi counter bill

  • Increases the amount of money being offered to individuals to $1,500, and up to $7,500 for a family of five. The same GOP income thresholds in the GOP bill would apply — $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for couples, but the benefit would be available to anyone with an individual taxpayer identification number, retirees and unemployed individuals.
  • Waives $10,000 in federal student loan payments.
  • Dedicate $4 billion in grant funding to help states with upcoming elections and nationally mandates 15 days of early voting and no-excuse absentee vote-by-mail, including mailing a ballot to all registered voters in an emergency.
  • Includes a section that would cancel several executive orders and presidential memorandums that Democrats argue have weakened public sector unions' ability to engage in collective bargaining.
  • Creates new carbon offset guidelines for airlines, with a long-term goal of reducing jet fuel emissions by 50% by 2050.
  • Allocates $150 billion to support hospitals, local health centers and government-funded medical programs, with an additional $80 billion in low-interest loans to hospitals.
  • Eliminates cost-sharing for coronavirus treatments and vaccines for all patients, including the uninsured.
  • Addresses broader health care concerns that Democrats have pushed for months, including increasing subsidies on the individual market and creating new incentives for states to expand Medicaid.
  • Provides child care assistance to health care workers and emergency personnel.
  • Would temporarily provide $600 per week to unemployed workers affected by the coronavirus. Self-employed workers, Americans whose contracts were canceled, and new entrants to the job market would also be eligible.
  • Expands paid sick leave and family medical leave, as well as gives more money to food-safety benefits.
  • Provides $500 billion in grants and interest-free loans to small businesses.
  • Creates a $200 billion stabilization fund for states and $15 billion for local governments through the Community Development Block Grant program. The legislation also authorizes the Federal Reserve to purchase state and local government bonds.
  • Pumps nearly $60 billion into schools and universities, with $50 billion directly provided to states for school funding and nearly $10 billion to higher education institutions.
  • Dedicates $20 billion to reimbursing the U.S. Postal Service for lost revenue, and forgives USPS debt.
  • Requires companies receiving federal assistance during coronavirus to institute a $15 minimum wage.
 
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ChiDO said:
Pelosi counter bill

  • Increases the amount of money being offered to individuals to $1,500, and up to $7,500 for a family of five. The same GOP income thresholds in the GOP bill would apply — $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 for couples, but the benefit would be available to anyone with an individual taxpayer identification number, retirees and unemployed individuals.
  • Waives $10,000 in federal student loan payments.
  • Dedicate $4 billion in grant funding to help states with upcoming elections and nationally mandates 15 days of early voting and no-excuse absentee vote-by-mail, including mailing a ballot to all registered voters in an emergency.
  • Includes a section that would cancel several executive orders and presidential memorandums that Democrats argue have weakened public sector unions' ability to engage in collective bargaining.
  • Creates new carbon offset guidelines for airlines, with a long-term goal of reducing jet fuel emissions by 50% by 2050.
  • Allocates $150 billion to support hospitals, local health centers and government-funded medical programs, with an additional $80 billion in low-interest loans to hospitals.
  • Eliminates cost-sharing for coronavirus treatments and vaccines for all patients, including the uninsured.
  • Addresses broader health care concerns that Democrats have pushed for months, including increasing subsidies on the individual market and creating new incentives for states to expand Medicaid.
  • Provides child care assistance to health care workers and emergency personnel.
  • Would temporarily provide $600 per week to unemployed workers affected by the coronavirus. Self-employed workers, Americans whose contracts were canceled, and new entrants to the job market would also be eligible.
  • Expands paid sick leave and family medical leave, as well as gives more money to food-safety benefits.
  • Provides $500 billion in grants and interest-free loans to small businesses.
  • Creates a $200 billion stabilization fund for states and $15 billion for local governments through the Community Development Block Grant program. The legislation also authorizes the Federal Reserve to purchase state and local government bonds.
  • Pumps nearly $60 billion into schools and universities, with $50 billion directly provided to states for school funding and nearly $10 billion to higher education institutions.
  • Dedicates $20 billion to reimbursing the U.S. Postal Service for lost revenue, and forgives USPS debt.
  • Requires companies receiving federal assistance during coronavirus to institute a $15 minimum wage.
Click to expand...
Pelosi is ******** insane.
 
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FFP said:
So I've just read up on the criteria for testing, and the whole system is made to 1. limit testing, 2. make money for the hospitals.

Ergo, the whole data about various morbidity/mortality rates is worthless, because we only test people who are either sick enough to go to a doctor or have been in contact with a Covid patient. Even the latter cannot get a test without seeing a doctor first, which is so *****ic it's beyond ridiculous. Let's not mention the fact that commercial tests are not free (on top of the cost of the obligatory medical consult).

Ergo, we probably have a TON more people infected than we think, which are cooking the disease as we speak. Good luck letting them back to work; it will be a disaster. Especially during a recession, people will think twice before risking being charged hundreds of dollars if they don't feel really sick. What a royally dumb solution for a public health issue!
Click to expand...
American capitalism at its best! Someone’s gotta always make some money.
No freebies for you!
 
It’s infuriating sitting here listening to moscow mitch bloviate about bipartisanship in regard to the stimulus bill. Shall we take a guess on how he (or house member Pence) voted for the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009?




Someone should dig up some juicy GOP quotes from barely 10 yrs ago about the economic value of stimulus....but on second thought I guess it’s kinda pointless since one needs to have some concept of shame to be moved by hypocrisy.
 
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These pork filled bills are all about not letting a crisis go to waste. I support giving money to those that need help. Those unemployed or earning less than 60,000. Im not sure why a couple earning $149,000 needs a govt hand out.

Why does Covid 19 mean the airlines must change its business model in terms of energy? That has nothing to do with this outbreak.

Pelosi is using the crisis to move her leftward agenda into law. That’s not the point of a stimulus bill.

The left never lets a crisis go to waste.
 
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BLADEMDA said:
These pork filled bills are all about not letting a crisis go to waste. I support giving money to those that need help. Those unemployed or earning less than 60,000. Im not sure why a couple earning $149,000 needs a govt hand out.

Why does Covid 19 mean the airlines must change its business model in terms of energy? That has nothing to do with this outbreak.

Pelosi is using the crisis to move her leftward agenda into law. That’s not the point of a stimulus bill.

The left never lets a crisis go to waste.
Click to expand...

Let’s say you were about to loan someone a huge sum of money because they were in dire circumstances. Wouldn’t you want to have a say in how that money is spent? Would you be happy if you saw that the money you loaned was being spent on booze and hookers? Like it or not, but the government now owns the airline industry. They can tell them how to run their business. If the airline industry didn’t want government directives then maybe they should have set aside a 6 month emergency fund...just like individuals. The other option is to just let the airlines fail...because that’s capitalism.
 
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crash2500 said:
You can always request forbearance
Click to expand...
Look, why request forbearance when there is forgiveness?
Let's not forget who's gonna get bailed out in the end. How many large companies are gonna get bailed out. So why should people who owe student loans not be assisted too? As well as health care workers?
 
chocomorsel said:
Look, why request forbearance when there is forgiveness?
Let's not forget who's gonna get bailed out in the end. How many large companies are gonna get bailed out. So why should people who owe student loans not be assisted too? As well as health care workers?
Click to expand...

The companies have to pay it back. Plus they are getting 1500 per person so yes they are getting help.

Stopping payments is helping. They've already suspended interest.

Also Blade, you can say the same for McConnell. He's doing the same thing. Don't try to act like this is unique to Pelosi.
 
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