There's a WW in Michigan Game Thread

[fromthebox]

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I’m going to bed. Will catch up later.


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[dyachei]

WW has gotten a lot more confrontational/ hurt sounding in my absence.


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Agree with this

 

[Skimble]

Normally I would be ok with a tie in this situation, but knowing that staff was a villager makes me think it was maybe more likely game mechanics that allowed him to not die in the tie with greenie. So, we'd be leaving it up to chance.

But if they are both wolves, does it really matter which one dies today? I'd like to lynch one today and the other tomorrow. Now if you are concerned neither will die in the lynch, that is pretty valid.

 

[PippyPony]

What the heck is this conversation even?

Like you keep going from one thing to another. Would you actually reread stuff so that you're not assuming I said something I didn't?

Ok, would you like me to say sorry for lumping you in with Crayola? Sorry for lumping you in with Crayola. Except that I think you are kind of tag-teaming at the moment and trying to swing attention back onto Mel. Who I would ALSO like to hear more from for all the reasons stated earlier, but I think we will also get some info there based on how you flip.

On things that you have explicitly said, I am still sketched out by you. You started pushing villager lynches early game -- I can pull those posts if you would like and break them down. I still do not like your description of how you are using your role, which is almost guaranteed going to take out villagers early game in a way that does not allow them to defend on the thread and leave data for others to use. So imo either you are being stubborn and cocky to the detriment of the village, or you are being wolfy. Given that you decided it was a good idea to start shooting people N2, and I do not think you are a bad player (quite the opposite), I am going to lean towards the side of wolfy.

 

[PippyPony]

But if they are both wolves, does it really matter which one dies today? I'd like to lynch one today and the other tomorrow. Now if you are concerned neither will die in the lynch, that is pretty valid.

Well, I doubt they are both wolves based on interactions on D1. So I think people should be voting towards who they think is most wolfy.

 

[dyachei]

So because I have a different play philosophy than you, I must be a wolf?

Killing people in the pool of suspects helps you find wolves. That's all there is to it.

I'd rather crack a few eggs.

Culturally I should have remembered that sdn feels that way but i didn't. I'm not used to playing here anymore. I'm pretty sure I won't continue to come back

 

[dyachei]

I think not shooting someone is bad play. (From my perspective).

 

[PippyPony]

I think not shooting someone is bad play. (From my perspective).

Ok, I respectfully disagree.

 

[jaboo]

Yup. Cuz I'm the town even night vigilante. Who was redirected. Good job

Was gonna shoot coop

What made you redirect?

Also, you were the only one who voted for Coop last night. If you're trying to help out the village, why wouldn't you go for someone who more people suspected to rule them out? Seem like that would be a better strategy.

 

[PippyPony]

@Crayola227 as promised, here was the initial soft defense of dy, plus the progression of your stance.

so many people I don't know... easy to either vote them so I know who I'm dealing with that's left, or to leave the focus on veterans that I can analyze/maybe read better. Neither seems like good strat. Hate first day votes.

Something kcough had to say about the pip/dy/greeny/so many commentators/my head hurts/tally is everywhere debacle, raised my hackles a bit.

kcough

also I may not be as active as I have been in past, I'm really busy with work. It's hit or miss so I might be on more than I intend. We'll see.

lol, I thought that was all I had to do, name in bold. Didn't know it needed the word "lynch" in it.

In trying to paraphrase you in listing all the names in the "face off" I added in my comments in /backslash/ as my own joking commentary on it, to explain that I may not be getting all the names involved right, because per your own post there's like 4 people. I should have been clearer that was my own editorializing of the sitch and not yours.

I still find the statement "weird that dy pointed out Pip's subtle backing of staff but not allie's blatant backing of greeny" to be the statement that set me off.

Now that we've raised one another's hackles,

lynch kcough

Because I still find what I feel like is nitpicking this way.... sorta forced and more wolfy than villagery. I could be wrong. I'm willing to back off if anyone in the queersome 4some or anyone commenting on them, starts to seem more off.

But yes, you are correct that you then backed off of that stance:

On second thought, reading through all of this again....

Greeny
Greeny's comment does totally come off as a wolf with nothing better to say that wants to be seen saying something. But Greeny is prone to those kinds of errors as a villager (making a candid comment that all villagers should know to avoid to avoid confusing people). I agree now with LIS and others who felt it twist their gut a little.

Staff
OTOH, even as a noob I have never seen, something about Staff's post seems contrived, versus Greeny who seems candid. Candid wolf vs villager remains to be seen. In any case, contrived always pings me more than any kind of nooby slip up or traditionally "wolfy" things being done by a noob or part of someone's typical play.

Dy
Initially since I agreed with Dy's reasoning on Pippy vs Allie, I took it all for granted. I see now what Mel was saying about Dy being aggressive and defensive at the same time. That could be her normal play, and Lord knows I'm guilty of same. But the offer to link to an outside site for meta... just feels contrived on reread.

Kcough
Now I see that kcough's post essentially agreed with Dy and my feeling on Pippy's defense, but now I see what she was finding fault in, in Dy. Still don't know what to make of that in light of Pippy thinking kcough seemed off for finding fault in FTB (addressed below). Sometimes I have a tendency to back off on people that get aggressive toward me, but that's no way to stand up to a potential wolf for village. Which could be kcough is trying to do thinking I'm a wolf.

Pippy
At this point, being so confused about everyone else, and not sure what to make of Kcough vs Pippy, I can't read Pippy as much as I can analyze everyone else's read of Pippy. Canary in the goldmine.



FTB
Actually, this post from FTB is thoughtful, and so I don't think it can be dismissed as wolfy fluffy "pretend to help village" at this point. Contributing actual thoughts is no more wolfy than all the people who haven't said much so far.

Although here then you backtrack (as far as I can tell -- I am still confused about what you were ultimately saying here):

Basically, I don't know what to make of you, but I can't regard someone finding you suspicious, suspicious in and of itself.

So kcough finding dy suspicious for calling you out and not allie... and kcough also thinking that was sketch... and me thinking it was sketch... is all almost meaningless to me in light of my limited meta on you, and the fact it's D1... maybe with time you'll show your true colors

Buuut then this feels like switching back a bit:

So want to answer for her, but won't so I don't get yelled at.

---------
Some bonus posts from iso that I found odd:

is no one else curious how staff survived the tie? is that mod quirk?

Could be a genuine question, could be trying to generate sketch for a now-known villager

F.

How did they get our town seer the very first night??? Was it something about Pippy's activity and the fact that the wolves obviously knew any change in her behavior wasn't wolfy and made a good guess?? I gotta go but will be looking over the roster and stuff later

Was a weird comment following my death. Both you and FromTheBox made comments that were like "ah F, they got the seer", which I am generally never a fan of because they feel like "us villagers" statements.

 

[dyachei]

What made you redirect?

Also, you were the only one who voted for Coop last night. If you're trying to help out the village, why wouldn't you go for someone who more people suspected to rule them out? Seem like that would be a better strategy.

Because of coops voting patterns. I didn't redirect myself.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Unofficial Day 3 Lynch Tally
staff (1) - Coop
SoFlo (1) - Lyra
dy (4) - vmh, jboo, AM, Pippy
Mel (5) - Snowy, Sporty, Jil, Cray, dy

11/24
lynch close in 10.5 hours

 

[Crayola227]

What made you redirect?

Also, you were the only one who voted for Coop last night. If you're trying to help out the village, why wouldn't you go for someone who more people suspected to rule them out? Seem like that would be a better strategy.

you should always try to get killed your top wolf suspect - not necessarily what the crowd thinks, that's why at the end of the day one person might have 8 votes and another 1

that's sort of the point of the vigilante - to go after who they think is wolf, and it doesn't always line up with what village thinks at large

 

[PippyPony]

you should always try to get killed your top wolf suspect - not necessarily what the crowd thinks, that's why at the end of the day one person might have 8 votes and another 1

that's sort of the point of the vigilante - to go after who they think is wolf, and it doesn't always line up with what village thinks at large

In my opinion, this is counter to the way the game works. An uninformed majority needs to discuss things in order to figure out the informed minority. At least in my experience, it is very rare for assassins to have success by ignoring input from others.

I also find "get killed" to be a strange wording choice here.

 

[cowgirl92]

Cowgirl I had as village from PMs, but if she shared even the limited info she had from Pip to a wolf pack PM, that might have been more than enough of a clue for them to know she had a power role and should be taken out.

OTOH, not sure she would know to manufacture how many wolves are left as a made up move for village cred, but they could have coached her. Not trying to throw her under the bus, and possibly both Mel and her are village and the wolves targeted Pippy from the thread clue Mel threw out there.

If I got Pippy killed via wolf PM, why would I tell you or thread about her post and vote to lynch Mel? It would have been way easier to just not say anything at all and I wouldn't have come under what heat I have.

 

[genny]

I think Dy’s use of a vig kill is appropriate, just speaking in broad terms of whether to kill vs. not kill. There are too many times when vig abilities go unused. I might have picked coop as a target had I been the vig this game.

However, I’m not sure I believe her ability claim.

 

[genny]

Also think it’s interesting that pip and Dy were both redirected. That redirector is pretty good at choosing people with abilities.

 

[Crayola227]

TLDR:
There is something rotten in the state of Michigan.

Pippy is way wrong. Here I prove just how suspicious I was of dy, and that I found Pippy sketch the whole way through, despite her saying she was suspicious of me more than once.

Doesn't mean she's a wolf, but what she's saying just isn't true. In fact, I like it even less on reread.

I don't trust rezzes. I especially don't trust them when their behavior makes a change or starts to seem wolfy. I posit a theory that this is all part of a wolf plot.

This one stood out the most for me. "Not standing up for her or anything but..." Psht that is totally standing up for someone. Not saying wolf, but definitely caught my eye.

Then of course we have the pip-staff-dy-mel face off. I do agree with Pip that it read noob to me rather than wolf, however I could see dy's point with the subtle-support being potentially too knowledgeable. However, I also agree with Mel that for dy this seems a lot of talk for Day 1 (but maybe her time in mafia has chaaaanged her? it's also been a bit since I've played with her I think...). All of this wishy-washiness to say I find it weird that dy pointed out Pip's subtle backing of staff but not allie's blatant backing of greeney.

Going to go with my gut on this one and

Lynch dy

Not sold on it, but feeeeeeeeeels

This is pretty close to what Pippy Pony said on my behalf to protect me when she was a wolf last game... "She's kind of a newb, give her a break, this sounds like her

Actually I had the same thought as dy about pippy's comment. Like paws said, pippy has defended fellow noob wolves in the past in a similar matter to get everyone off their backs.

Yeah, I did that once. And not until she was taking actual heat.

Plus, I really only did that in Paws' case because I am her manator and I (legit, not just because we were wolves) felt like she deserved to play in a game for longer than a day -- she had played a few times but kept getting lynched before she even got a chance to really figure out how it worked.

Following up on what I just kind of suggested in my response to LIS...I am agreeing with you a lot so far, which makes me a little nervous in conjunction with this post where you kind of just regurgitated my logic for switching to FTB. The last sentence of this also kinda sounds like wolfy KC.

I am interested to see how FTB flips; I may come back to you if she is village.

Right now I have a couple strong village marks for you (e.g. point about Crayola trying to push the "oh but I didn't know you had to put 'lynch' in a vote", because wtf was that about) but also a couple strong wolf marks, so I suppose we shall seeeee

Also I so far have counted twice that you made a comment on me being sketch, and I didn't say anything besides a generic, "I find Pippy sketch." The fact I find you sketchier now is hardly retaliatory for the reasons and quotes I've stated.

You would come back on someone for a day 1 vote like that?

Hmm. Starting to be swayed by Dy’s thinking.

FWIW I typically take a lot more heat early on as a villager vs. when I am a wolf.

Lol.

I don't know Staff well, maybe Pippy does. But Pippy is usually considered sketch, and her defending an unknown quantity, could be read as sketch, because: based on what about Staff is Pippy coming to this conclusion? Nevermind I did read Staff as noob with the comment as well. It's Pippy's defense of the noob that is sketchy to me. That dy thought so as well, isn't odd to me.

Allie can come off as sketch too, but not so much as Pippy, in my limited meta. Greeny is also a noob, but I have some frame of reference (more than with Staff) to feel that Greeny was being typical. That is the data point I have that makes Allie's defense of Greeny less sketch to me than Pippy's of Staff. I don't see where Pippy's conclusion came from, but I can see where Allie's did.

I'm also biased by Pippy's defense of StayPos' noobiness when we all 3 wolfed together a game ago.

While I find all the fault finding with people's typical play sketch in and of itself, and the attack on noobs for noobiness, I can understand where LIS and dy are coming from in all of this. So given that I don't find dy's conclusion odd, but you do, I therefore find you odd on this one.

On second thought, reading through all of this again....

Greeny
Greeny's comment does totally come off as a wolf with nothing better to say that wants to be seen saying something. But Greeny is prone to those kinds of errors as a villager (making a candid comment that all villagers should know to avoid to avoid confusing people). I agree now with LIS and others who felt it twist their gut a little.

Staff
OTOH, even as a noob I have never seen, something about Staff's post seems contrived, versus Greeny who seems candid. Candid wolf vs villager remains to be seen. In any case, contrived always pings me more than any kind of nooby slip up or traditionally "wolfy" things being done by a noob or part of someone's typical play.

Dy
Initially since I agreed with Dy's reasoning on Pippy vs Allie, I took it all for granted. I see now what Mel was saying about Dy being aggressive and defensive at the same time. That could be her normal play, and Lord knows I'm guilty of same. But the offer to link to an outside site for meta... just feels contrived on reread.

Kcough
Now I see that kcough's post essentially agreed with Dy and my feeling on Pippy's defense, but now I see what she was finding fault in, in Dy. Still don't know what to make of that in light of Pippy thinking kcough seemed off for finding fault in FTB (addressed below). Sometimes I have a tendency to back off on people that get aggressive toward me, but that's no way to stand up to a potential wolf for village. Which could be kcough is trying to do thinking I'm a wolf.

Pippy
At this point, being so confused about everyone else, and not sure what to make of Kcough vs Pippy, I can't read Pippy as much as I can analyze everyone else's read of Pippy. Canary in the goldmine.

FTB
Actually, this post from FTB is thoughtful, and so I don't think it can be dismissed as wolfy fluffy "pretend to help village" at this point. Contributing actual thoughts is no more wolfy than all the people who haven't said much so far.

To Pippy about finding her sketch:

Basically, I don't know what to make of you, but I can't regard someone finding you suspicious, suspicious in and of itself.

So kcough finding dy suspicious for calling you out and not allie... and kcough also thinking that was sketch... and me thinking it was sketch... is all almost meaningless to me in light of my limited meta on you, and the fact it's D1... maybe with time you'll show your true colors

I miss having my player lists handed to me by software ;-;

Pippy feels like she's aggressively trying to find *reasons* to vote people, not trying to wolfhunt in and of itself. Not that staffy is towny at all. Kind of feel like pippy is more likely than staff though. If pippy is a wolf, staff is town.

Crayola is basically neutral/null right now. She's not pinging me and this is very much in line with the last game I saw. However, I don't remember if that was a village or wolf game.

Kind of ok with LIS right now but I need private chat with him to be able to make a confident read.

kcough's vote on me is weird. I'm flabberghasted that actually trying to get activity in the thread is something she finds wolfy.

Hmm, if Pippy is a wolf, Staffy is town. Now I'm wondering if that works the other way? Staff is town, and Pippy is wolf?

Convenient how Pippy left out the most obvious stake I put in the sand about Dy, my "Table of Leans." In it I literally had Dy at the TOP of my wolf list. I explain why my vote went to KC instead. Top of the list is Greeny, as well. I have Staff on there for a minimal reason, clearly I was wrong. Jonna I came off of after her defense.

Also on that list is Pippy. So no, my suspicions on Pippy are not primarily driven by her leaning on me.

Spoiler: Table of Leans

Only ones that stand out to me:

Sketchy, in approximate order
Dy - defensiveness I find a touch wolfy
Kcough - similar, vote switch suspicious
Pippy - very torn here, seems sketch for all the straightforward reasons already stated, but that does the opposite of instill confidence in my read
Staff - comment seemed contrived, but I hesitate to go for the noobiest of noobs here
Greeny - earlier comment is off, hard to tell if wolf off or greeny off
johnaboo - liking lots of posts but not saying much... lurking.. could be nefarious vs nooby

Despite Dy rising higher on my re-read than kcough based on overall thread re-read feel, the vote switch of kcough is bugging me a lot, and it would be way too ironic for me to come off my vote for her for doing that by doing that myself (abrupt switch not based on much). Not to mention, with the "pressure" (not really pressure) on kcough, the back and forth with me, I think we're getting good interaction going, whereas Dy isn't really here to defend herself, which makes me feel bad. Maybe I should vote her to put pressure there, or maybe she's reading this and laying low, in any case, I'm not ready to change my vote. I'm not a huge waffler with votes, just thoughts.

Villagey - all based on their posts sounding typical to me, though many are few and of limited substance, based on very little evidence
StayPos
Fern
Snowy
allieh
kata
AM
FTB
LIS
VMH
AM
Mel
Kara

By rep or by habit, LIS, VMH, AM, Mel, allieh, I consider sneaky players and I am always wary of. StayPos and Snowy are simultaneously over and under suspected for being newer so I keep an eye on them. They are getting smarter by the game thread page. FTB I've never played with, but going off of our newly forged co-mod development relationship, they really know what they are doing, so should be watched for that. Suspect everyone.

MIA - missing in action, maybe have as many posts as some of the above, but I need more posts before I give them village lean
DVMD
genny
3M
Coopah
Jilary

DVMD, genny, Jilary, especially sneaky ones in this list.

Who the heck is this?
Gryff
Teep
cowgirl

Keep in mind just how early on my reads were, anyway. I reserve the right to contradict them. Oddly though, I haven't much so far.

Didn't realize you'd mentioned it before. I did see you switched your vote to her but didn't see your reason for it.

I do find it interesting that if FTB flips village, you'd suspect me when I'm using similar logic you used to vote for her.

Sent from my [device_name] using SDN mobile

Lol, this last point you made on kcough has me swinging from you back onto her. Which was my first gut instinct before what she had to say and a re-read.

Another quote where I indicate I was heavily suspicious of Dy (given that I was voting KC and saying here I was considering voting Dy instead)

I'm gonna have to take this piece by piece.

Maybe I haven't made it clear. Pippy was being a dick and very much so strong-armed me into soft vouching her, when I knew it was going to get her killed. Totally out of character from her usual play, but knowing what I know of whats going on in her social life, its believable that it was the liquor making her aggressive. She also TOLD me she had a back-up plan in place if she died last night. If I was a wolf, would purposely walking right into that trap and now having to sit here and defend seem like such a good idea?

Snowy pretty much admitted that she connected the dots about the power role even though I tried to be careful. Seeing as how Snowy is my biggest wolf read, I really want to believe this is Snowy trying to be a smartass and bragging, but idk if she's ballsy enough for a play like that.....

Because I know Pippy isn't stupid. With a play like telling cowgirl "if I die, Mel is suspicious" is moot if she told cowgirl the same information that she told me. No, for this gambit to work she would have to pick one person to be the target and receive information about her role, and the other to be the trigger to spring the trap if she ended up burned.

Pippy constantly finds me sketchy. Even when I had an all but mod confirmed village role, she still tunneled that I was chaos. It makes sense that I was her target and I guess something in PM's made her believe cowgirl was more trustworthy than I, so both by default and by Pippy's intuition, Cowgirl became the trigger.

As soon as I saw that she died, I knew I was going to be under the spotlight, but forgive me if I'd rather stay calm and reason things through.

Totally bizarre thought, but did Pippy need to get herself killed? I've seen that as a type of role on the Mafia sites. I'm not stuck on this idea of Pippy as Pure Evil, I thought she was sketch and then was surprised she was a seer, but since the rez I like her behavior even less. There is something rotten in Michigan. Maybe not her, but I am seriously looking at Pippy, Mel, Cowgirl, KC, dy.

Yesterday I agreed with you about Pippy questioning you about your likes, we've discussed this in several threads and it goes round and round....
Defending Allie, attacking Pippy BEFORE Staff got really weird and unhelpful.

Just more proof that I got on Pippy earlier, and before she got on me for all my likes. Which I said nothing about.

Kara also voted me, and I had nothing to say about it because I didn't think her reasoning was crappy at all. Incorrect, but not crappy.

Thought it was nice to memory lane what was suspicious about Pippy prior to current events. I wasn't coming out strongly about Pippy, true. My point was more in support of Dy's conclusion about Pippy at that point in time.

I stopped at page 8. I could go on, but think I made my point about myself and Pippy.

 

[jaboo]

Cray, as a noob-for-brains, that word vomit confused me more than anything else this game 😕

ETA: So far, that is

 

[Crayola227]

If I got Pippy killed via wolf PM, why would I tell you or thread about her post and vote to lynch Mel? It would have been way easier to just not say anything at all and I wouldn't have come under what heat I have.

You would have come under heat no matter what, since you were her PM partner, the PM partner of the dead seer is always under scrutiny. Since you were her trigger, the wolf pack would have told you to tell the thread, because you have nothing to lose as far as looking suspicious, and would likely actually gain village cred. To have said nothing when she told you to say something, could come back on you nasty as a wolf, and there's no reason not to say something and look village doing so.

True that if Mel was lynched on account of this and flipped village, suspicion would have gone back to you. But then his on-thread be your defense, just as it is now.

Still, I do lean village on you for the most part. Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see, by doing so. I would be remiss if I didn't point out the flaw in the logic, though. And I'm not buying that all 3 of you, Pippy, Mel, Cowgirl, are all village. Or still village. Maybe you all are and the pack got lucky with Mel's on thread hint. I don't know that I should bank on that.

 

[Crayola227]

Also think it’s interesting that pip and Dy were both redirected. That redirector is pretty good at choosing people with abilities.

Are we implying that one of them is lying?? haha

 

[cowgirl92]

You would have come under heat no matter what, since you were her PM partner, the PM partner of the dead seer is always under scrutiny. Since you were her trigger, the wolf pack would have told you to tell the thread, because you have nothing to lose as far as looking suspicious, and would likely actually gain village cred. To have said nothing when she told you to say something, could come back on you nasty as a wolf, and there's no reason not to say something and look village doing so.

True that if Mel was lynched on account of this and flipped village, suspicion would have gone back to you. But then his on-thread be your defense, just as it is now.

Still, I do lean village on you for the most part. Maybe I'm seeing what I want to see, by doing so. I would be remiss if I didn't point out the flaw in the logic, though. And I'm not buying that all 3 of you, Pippy, Mel, Cowgirl, are all village. Or still village. Maybe you all are and the pack got lucky with Mel's on thread hint. I don't know that I should bank on that.

Interesting!! Thank you for explaining, I really am trying to learn as much as I can, I'd like to play again.
I'm still very much leaning toward Mel right now, nothing he's said has convinced me he's not a wolf, no matter what else has happened (of course at this point, I'm not sure what anyone could say in his situation).

 

[Crayola227]

In my opinion, this is counter to the way the game works. An uninformed majority needs to discuss things in order to figure out the informed minority. At least in my experience, it is very rare for assassins to have success by ignoring input from others.

I also find "get killed" to be a strange wording choice here.

maybe some people just have more belief in themselves, and for some, with good reason

there's more than one way to kill your wolf suspects, not sure why the wording is strange

Meats used murdernate in a town sense earlier, I admit that's a better way of putting it

 

[PippyPony]

I stopped at page 8. I could go on, but think I made my point about myself and Pippy.

Which was what, exactly?

That you thought I was sketchy before when I died as the village seer, hence you think I am still sketchy now? 😕

 

[Crayola227]

Which was what, exactly?

That you thought I was sketchy before when I died as the village seer, hence you think I am still sketchy now? 😕

My TLDR said it, you claimed I was only now saying that Dy was suspicious, and that I was being retaliatory in saying you were sketch. I proved neither are supported by the evidence.

#shortestpostever

 

[Animal Midwife]

@Crayola227 Are you working on that list still?

 

[jaboo]

Tried to do another read-through. Not helping as much as when I did that last time. Will likely put out reads this evening before lynch.

I will say that my dy lynch is now up in the air. Considering I (and others) didn't believe allie's role was real and we were wrong, I'm hesitant to make the same call twice. Fool me once and all that. But idk how common the vigilante role is and how often it is usually allowed to be used.

 

[KCgophervet]

Holy Hera. Lot to come back to and a weird busy day so I'll try to be brief:

Pippy, is there a reason you haven't placed a Lynch vote yet?

I am a tad nervous about the rez as the last several games, rez has been chaos or wolf convert who then went on to win the game. Teep and KC come to mind...

No one ever remembers my good village rezzes ....

TLDR:
There is something rotten in the state of Michigan.

Longest post ever describing how someone who died a villager was sketchy before dying as a villager. Bizzaro world.

Interesting to me is how, despite two deaths happening last night and some mild chatter about why that could be, dy didn't immediately come out on thread and take responsibility for it. I feel like a villager should have done so.

I also think whoever the redirector is should be easily able to confirm or deny that dy was redirected (even if so, wouldn't rule out dy for a wolf but would lend credence to her story). I doubt the redirector is a wolf if only because why would they bother redirecting someone the same night the wolves killed them (Pipsqueak). Not saying redirector should out themselves, but I feel pretty okay on them not being a wolf at this point in time.

I'm going to

Lynch dy

because honestly getting caught redhanded killing someone and only coming up with an excuse for it after the fact sounds very much like something I would do as a wolf (and probably get away with it).

 

[vetmedhead]

My question with dy is that if she is ostensibly an even night vig, would there be an odd night vig? If not, why the restriction on the night the vig can take shots? It's an unusual aspect of the role claim.

 

[katashark]

My question with dy is that if she is ostensibly an even night vig, would there be an odd night vig? If not, why the restriction on the night the vig can take shots? It's an unusual aspect of the role claim.

There could be an odd night vig, I've had even/odd power players for village before in games I've run. But, it could also be a way to limit the "unlimited" nights of shooting for balance?

 

[dyachei]

My question with dy is that if she is ostensibly an even night vig, would there be an odd night vig? If not, why the restriction on the night the vig can take shots? It's an unusual aspect of the role claim.

Some mods like to do things asymmetrically to make you wonder. I have no idea why I'm even night and was not given a certain amount of shots. However, I do think not shooting is a mistake.

And I think the redirector is a wolf. Pippy was clearly a good role based on what was said in the thread. you think wolves wouldn't redirect that?

 

[Crayola227]

There could be an odd night vig, I've had even/odd power players for village before in games I've run. But, it could also be a way to limit the "unlimited" nights of shooting for balance?

makes sense it would be even nights then, as well

 

[KCgophervet]

Some mods like to do things asymmetrically to make you wonder. I have no idea why I'm even night and was not given a certain amount of shots. However, I do think not shooting is a mistake.

And I think the redirector is a wolf. Pippy was clearly a good role based on what was said in the thread. you think wolves wouldn't redirect that?

If they were killing her the same night? Why would they waste a redirect?

 

[dyachei]

If they were killing her the same night? Why would they waste a redirect?

Well, pippy did still get her results, right? It's possible they were concerned about her being protected if there's a protector, getting her results anyway, etc etc

 

[Crayola227]

I sorta crapped these out, in that I'm super tired (I said I was going to sleep hours ago), and I'm producing them on demand for AM. I say crapped out, because if I had the energy I'd finish my re-read past 8/23 pages, and use that to be more specific in supporting my reads. As such, it's just the "feels" I been keeping in my gut as I go.

Spoiler: Crappy List of Reads

Wolfy
Mel
Snowy
Dy
KC
Cowgirl
Pippy

Reasons for each have already been given, and for once in my life I'd like to keep this short.

Village
jonna - reads as noob besides the "lurking" I mentioned earlier, seems pretty informed as far as how the game works, but not to the point I find wolfy, seems like a believable amount of research supporting it
staff - Pip's vouch, which admittedly shouldn't hold much weight for me, but besides my comment earlier about seeming "too smart" since then they have otherwise come off as a noob, and I suspect some of the excitement to lynch was just because he was being difficult. We can hardly keep from lynching noobs when they play nice, let alone give lip.
genny - she hasn't said much, but she feels different from wolfy genny, less inscrutable, more helpful
coop - besides the waffling, didn't really see what the big deal here was
paws - I could go the other way with paws, is a bit more aggressive this game, but more importantly, seems more confident. That could just be having more games under her belt, but I think as a wolf she was pretty insecure and I could not see her playing this confident and putting out opinions so strongly if not a villager.
Jilary - participation feels more like village, doesn't seem as inscrutable as wolfy Jilary

Not enough to decide, need to speak up, a few thoughts on each though
AM - I had her as a village lean, and I still do. However, she's something of a one-way mirror at this point.
DVMD - posts are fluffy like when she was a wolf, but I can't point to anything else at all.
FTB - didn't like the first day votes for her based on her one post about PMs, however the follow up posts haven't been very substantial
Gryff - I see the attitude that has been bugging people.
3m - see group title
VMH - I don't have any meta on VMH besides sneaky.
SP - opened a PM with me as I asked, besides saying hi we haven't said anything more, that's mutual.
Kara - has participated, and I have agreed with her so far. I don't have her as village though, because I just don't have that "feeling" to say I'll put thoughts of her being a good wolf on the backburner. But I can't say I have any reasons to suspect her beyond lacking a solid village feeling.
kata - hasn't said much, I would lean village but needs to say more
BBC - same as 3m
LyraGardenia - same as BBC

Normally I would have all the ? people as sketchier, I detest quiet players. Maybe it's because I have a solid list of people I find really sketch, maybe because it's only the second day and most haven't been *that* silent so it hasn't sunk in yet, maybe I'm just getting less paranoid with age.

 

[PippyPony]

Well, pippy did still get her results, right? It's possible they were concerned about her being protected if there's a protector, getting her results anyway, etc etc

I had this same thought, actually.

I do also kind of feel like the redirector is wolfy.

However, I do not necessarily think that precludes you also being wolfy, because I think that could be some damn good cover. And to reiterate my earlier comment, I think you are quite a strong player, so I am not ruling out possibilities like that at this time.

 

[PippyPony]

FWIW that same argument is what keeps Mel on my list. If he knew I was going to seer him and was worried the kill wouldn't go through/I would get rezzed, then they might also want to make doubly sure I didn't get seer data.

No one else knew I was planning on seering him, so to be hit with a double whammy like that makes me suspicious that something was going on. I mean, could all be coincidence, but *shrug*. Maybe it is not.

 

[cowgirl92]

Well I want to know what wolfy things I've supposedly been doing. I've already hinted at my role here once tonight and people haven't picked up on it.

I'm curious about where you hinted at your role? I probably just didn't pick it up, but would you mind pointing it out to me?

 

[cowgirl92]

FWIW that same argument is what keeps Mel on my list. If he knew I was going to seer him and was worried the kill wouldn't go through/I would get rezzed, then they might also want to make doubly sure I didn't get seer data.

No one else knew I was planning on seering him, so to be hit with a double whammy like that makes me suspicious that something was going on. I mean, could all be coincidence, but *shrug*. Maybe it is not.

My initial read was the re-director was wolfy. Admittedly taking things at face value, but your redirect and dy's redirect could possibly have benefited the wolves greatly. That is assuming that Mel and Coop are wolf, which I'm suspicious of Mel (obviously) and I don't know what to think about Coop.

 

[dyachei]

Hinted it when night results were released...let me see if I can find it

 

[dyachei]

I have one. I'll let you consider it a little longer though.

This

 

[cowgirl92]

This

Thank you!

 

[PippyPony]

My initial read was the re-director was wolfy. Admittedly taking things at face value, but your redirect and dy's redirect could possibly have benefited the wolves greatly. That is assuming that Mel and Coop are wolf, which I'm suspicious of Mel (obviously) and I don't know what to think about Coop.

I actually have not really been reading @Coopah as particularly wolfy, which will be a shock to her, I'm sure lol

She was too waffley on those votes imo to actually know what she was doing lol

Argument against the redirector being wolfy is that I was up for lynch D1 and staff was also getting attention from people for looking wolfy. Given the perception of a mutual defense there, I could see someone making that as a logical choice. Not one I particularly agree with or appreciated, but I would be lying if I said I couldn't see the reasoning behind it.

 

[PippyPony]

I actually have not really been reading @Coopah as particularly wolfy, which will be a shock to her, I'm sure lol

She was too waffley on those votes imo to actually know what she was doing lol

Argument against the redirector being wolfy is that I was up for lynch D1 and staff was also getting attention from people for looking wolfy. Given the perception of a mutual defense there, I could see someone making that as a logical choice. Not one I particularly agree with or appreciated, but I would be lying if I said I couldn't see the reasoning behind it.

Further point here in the opposite direction -- I could also see the redirector being wolfy and trying to get Staff lynched the next day. They would know that they redirected me onto a villager, so IF I got results and got rezzed, it would be best to clear out that person prior to when the info could be released on the thread. Would be pretty convoluted, but there are a couple people here who I think could pull off something like that (Dy being one of them).

 

[Skimble]

I had this same thought, actually.

I do also kind of feel like the redirector is wolfy.

However, I do not necessarily think that precludes you also being wolfy, because I think that could be some damn good cover. And to reiterate my earlier comment, I think you are quite a strong player, so I am not ruling out possibilities like that at this time.

I agree the redirector is likely a wolf. I also agree the redirector being a wolf does not exclude dy from being a wolf too. If the redirector tried to use his ability on a vanillager, and was notified of such, it wouldn't be such a stretch to use that as an excuse.

 

[Melchizedek]

Mel definitely said that he didn’t know Pippy’s role which is sketch as hell considering. I had a bunch of “staff is sketch” posts included in this that I had to go back and delete though lol

I think my vote is either going to Mel or Coop today.

Lynch mel

Kudos to whomever brought pippy back. I was hoping she’d be rezzed and could let us know who was telling the truth. Mel seems like a liar, and the only reason pip would be redirected and killed n1 would be because a wolf knew her role.

Wow, between you:
saying you didn't know Pippy's role (I haven't checked the timestamps),
you telegraphing her role on the thread so conveniently,
her last words to have you lynched,
and what she has to say now that you're back,
plus this ridiculous last minute "Don't kill Allieh!" which was pretty strongly worded given it was based on villager code (seriously, after the mods said what they said, you guys thought to use villager code as your main deciding factor? and you say I'm dumb), that was really overstated, and the timing really suspect.

You are vouching for a villager with like 8 votes on them 5 minutes before they go down. That looks like a wolf trying to gain village cred by defending a villager whose fate is sealed. The only reason not to think that is what you were doing is that I like to think you're a smarter wolf than that. Unless that's part of your plot. Sure, that's definitely WIFOM logic right there, but it doesn't matter when you put the rest of it together.

Contingency lynch Mel

I'm going to ask you all to re-read that exchange again. People were assuming I knew Pippy's role when I came on thread to defend her. I didn't, and said as much. At 5:33 p.m. EST she messaged me saying she was hydrated and that she didn't trust me, but I shouldn't let her get lynched. She didn't come out and tell me she was the seer until 9:38 p.m. EST which was after my post at 8:52 p.m EST.

Michigan good

 

[Melchizedek]

If I got Pippy killed via wolf PM, why would I tell you or thread about her post and vote to lynch Mel? It would have been way easier to just not say anything at all and I wouldn't have come under what heat I have.

Because she also handed you a perfect scapegoat when she said to lynch me if she died.

RE: Defending Allie
I would have defended Allie earlier in the day when Kata brought up her role being Lake Erie. Before I could Lyra pointed out that Finn might have given wolves cover roles which convinced me that Allie was given a great lakes cover role specifically because of the whole "don't use villager code" rule. It wasn't until after Allie role claimed on thread that I could tell she wasn't giving us a cover role.

Looking through FTB's 16 posts this game and how has no one already gotten on her case about not making any significant contributions to the game?

Michigan is great.

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

I wanted to lynch Gryff today and I still want to lynch Gryff. Nothing he/she has done is making me feel any better about still being in the game. However I might take a back burner for that temporarily as per notes below.

Now that we have Staff confirmed village (providing Pip didn't rez wolf and is screwing with us) I am interested in seeing who voted that way since that would have been a good lynch to jump on as a wolf. Coop, AM, and Dy voted Staff D1. D2 it was Genny, Coop, VMH, Allie, Mel, AM, and FTB. I suspect at least one of them is a wolf.

-I was thinking Coop was more villagey because of that last minute D1 lynch wafflefest, but apparently others don't agree. However the voting of Staff 2 days in a row now (esp since the vote of Staff was away from a wolf (despite me finding the vote for the wolf in the first place villagery)) is making me question that assessment I made yesterday.
-Still no reads on Genny, but noting this for the future
-VMH to me was sounding pretty normal for her, or at least nothing had stood out. Again, just noting to look at again in the next few days. Mildly paranoid about that because I always find her sketchy.
-Thought Dy was playing different than normal, but DVMD thinks it is consistent. She did play more in-the-background in the last game I played with her where she wolfed. I don't know what to think, but I agree with DVMD that I highly doubt she would support Dy in a wolf-wolf scenario so I suspect one or both of them is village.
-Didn't know how to read FTB yesterday besides the one weird comment, but this vote and lack of content again today has me starting to lean wolfy.
-AM was pushing Gryff today, which alleviated by concerns about her letting Gryff off easy yesterday. Don't like the Staff vote but will monitor.
-If he lied about Pip role revealing that is sketchy as all hell. Gryff voting him D2 makes me wonder a little bit, but that goes back to me being sketched out by Gryff. If Mel flips wolf I could possibly loosen up on Gryff (providing they actually start playing the freaking game).

I want to vote for someone on this list today. Leaning towards Mel or Allie at this point.

Also agree with (but don't have anything to add to) the comments that Cray seems to be missing very basic concepts that she should know. Moreso than in other games. I had her neutral-village but I think I'm going to take away the village part.

In terms of multiple kills, options are: wolf kill, vig kill, chaos, or modkill. If it was mods I think they would have told us it was a modkill. If it was a vigilante I'm confused why they chose the person they did unless they had some behind-the-scenes reason to be suspicious. Which kinda makes me think it is chaos or wolf. Agree with whoever said that Teep seemed like a weird choice for a kill, regardless of who did the killing.

Edited to remove Allie from suspicions because I'm dumb.

 

[cowgirl92]

I actually have not really been reading @Coopah as particularly wolfy, which will be a shock to her, I'm sure lol

She was too waffley on those votes imo to actually know what she was doing lol

I can see both sides on that. I'm just keeping an open mind right now. I don't want to be biased because she lynch voted me last night, lol.

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

I wanted to lynch Gryff today and I still want to lynch Gryff. Nothing he/she has done is making me feel any better about still being in the game. However I might take a back burner for that temporarily as per notes below.

Now that we have Staff confirmed village (providing Pip didn't rez wolf and is screwing with us) I am interested in seeing who voted that way since that would have been a good lynch to jump on as a wolf. Coop, AM, and Dy voted Staff D1. D2 it was Genny, Coop, VMH, Allie, Mel, AM, and FTB. I suspect at least one of them is a wolf.

-Allie's defense of Greeney yesterday sketched me out, and her vote on Staff doesn't make me feel much better. In relation to the theories about nooby/absentee wolfpack, she did admit she was out car shopping all day D1.
-I was thinking Coop was more villagey because of that last minute D1 lynch wafflefest, but apparently others don't agree. However the voting of Staff 2 days in a row now (esp since the vote of Staff was away from a wolf (despite me finding the vote for the wolf in the first place villagery)) is making me question that assessment I made yesterday.
-Still no reads on Genny, but noting this for the future
-VMH to me was sounding pretty normal for her, or at least nothing had stood out. Again, just noting to look at again in the next few days. Mildly paranoid about that because I always find her sketchy.
-Thought Dy was playing different than normal, but DVMD thinks it is consistent. She did play more in-the-background in the last game I played with her where she wolfed. I don't know what to think, but I agree with DVMD that I highly doubt she would support Dy in a wolf-wolf scenario so I suspect one or both of them is village. If her role claim of vig is true, she will probably be dead pretty quick because I doubt the wolves want someone hanging around who still has shots left. So if she is alive after a few nights I will be way more suspicious.
-Didn't know how to read FTB yesterday besides the one weird comment, but this vote and lack of content again today has me starting to lean wolfy.
-AM was pushing Gryff today, which alleviated by concerns about her letting Gryff off easy yesterday. Don't like the Staff vote but will monitor.
-If he lied about Pip role revealing that is sketchy as all hell. Gryff voting him D2 makes me wonder a little bit, but that goes back to me being sketched out by Gryff. If Mel flips wolf I could possibly loosen up on Gryff (providing they actually start playing the freaking game).

I want to vote for someone on this list today. Leaning towards Mel or Allie at this point.

Also agree with (but don't have anything to add to) the comments that Cray seems to be missing very basic concepts that she should know. Moreso than in other games. I had her neutral-village but I think I'm going to take away the village part.

In terms of multiple kills, options are: wolf kill, vig kill, chaos, or modkill. If it was mods I think they would have told us it was a modkill. If it was a vigilante I'm confused why they chose the person they did unless they had some behind-the-scenes reason to be suspicious. Which kinda makes me think it is chaos or wolf. Agree with whoever said that Teep seemed like a weird choice for a kill, regardless of who did the killing.

This was what I typed last night before I fell asleep on the couch with my laptop on my lap.

I realize now rereading that I'm an idiot and that Allie was lynched and thus obviously isn't wolfy.

With Dy's revelation, I suspect if she is telling the truth and is village the wolves will kill her because she still has shots left. So I would leave her alive and then if she isn't dead in a couple days lynch her then.