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I thought my application was strong, but my MCAT was <30...and I thought that was my weakness...but someone I know who got a 25 got in today. What is this?
University of Arizona Questions
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I'm right there with you Derm. I think our type takes the whole "delayed gratification" deal to extremes. I've worked myself so hard the past few years that I've almost forgotten to enjoy my life. Working full time, going to school full time, taking care of family, etc.
I think it's time we all gather 'round and sing "Que Sera Sera" together.
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That's one thing we have to learn with UA....it's not the stats that matter (to a degree), it's the whole person. Kros said a 17 MCAT got in.
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Well, I thought I was pretty well-rounded until now.
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What's even more disheartening is, I've been offered an awesome summer job. This is an area of health-related work that I'd love to be involved in even after I have my MD. Unfortunately it runs mid-June til mid-August, so I won't be able to take it in case I get off of the waitlist at U of A or the other school I was waitlisted at.
Que Sera Sera
Que Sera Sera
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Once the waitlist goes out, definitely ask UA what was missing in your app. I'm guessing mine was a lack of academic involvement (like research, etc). I was just too busy with work, I suppose. Looking back on it, maybe I should have just taken out loans.
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If you are waitlisted over 50, you should probably take the job? Oh, nevermind, I didn't see you had another school there.
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Asi es la vida, amigo.
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I just wanted to throw out a comment and open up to you a bit in the process. This post first and foremost hit home. Here's why.
As a lot of you know I had the option to start medical school in the Caribbean in January. I thought that if I didn't get in this cycle I would be miserable having wasted time. But I could not be happier! Why?
My first application was kind of a sob story. I was the kid who's parent divorced and he put himself through college. No doctors or really anyone (other than a stepmom who's a nurse tech) to really make that many comments on the whole doctor thing. I also never had a life in the summer since I worked 80 or so hours a week (literally), and worked during weekends sometimes in college. Hah even spring break one year was spent putting new floors in my condo (although I did manage to make it to Mexico two years).
So for awhile there I was running a proverbial marathon. And then it came time to take MCAT. That semester I loaded up with 20 credit hours and an MCAT course. It was too much. I had to give my puppy away b/c I was never home and she needed attention and since I was gone so much my neighbor was nice and took care of her during the day and let her play with his dog whom she fell in love with.
And then you stop for a summer to just study for the MCAT and have some fun. And you start to feel all the aches and cramps that you ignore during the race. It almost makes you not want to start again (or reach for some caffeine or advil).
And now I had two years off..much of that was working; other times were interning. Lately it's been job-hunting like everyone else trying to find a job where no one wants to hire you b/c you're starting school and it's almost demeaning to know that you've done so much yet you'd be lucky to be a cashier at this point since nothing else is out there (not that there's anything wrong with being a cashier but it would be nice to use my degree). And in the interim though you get to spend some time and really explore yourself. I went from studying all the time to a little phase where I went out 5 or 6 nights a week. I went from being shy and an introvert to walking up to random people and making conversation about the most random topics. And I learned how to have fun and to relax. And that is well worth the cost of admission b/c I am a much better person. A lot of the pre-meds I have met seem so stricken with sitting in the liibrary all day to achieve that perfect 4.0 that they forget how to have fun in the process. That might be great if you're going to be an anesthesiologist but being a good clinician (especially PEDS or IM) requires a doctor to be a great communicator and to be able to get along with pretty much anyone or at the very least communicate with them. You need your patients trust in order to take an accurate history. You need your patients trust and willingness to play an active role in their healthcare and be compliant. A lot of patients don't want to go to doctors b/c they are both scared of the diagnosis and they didn't like their doctor for some reason. Much of doctoring is re-assuring and utilizing that compassion and sense of empathy these volunteer experiences should be fostering.
So yes, the medical schools are absolutely right to be picky b/c being a doctor is not all fun and games and most people drop out of the whole pre-med thing once they really realize what they are in for. I have a good buddy that managed to get 95% on his PCAT, Dad's a top trauma surgeon, and he dropped out b/c he said being a doctor is just not worth it between the salary, hours, and lifestyle. Another girl I know who managed to get an interview at Brown and other places with a 36 on her MCAT dropped out of the pre-med route admist applications b/c she doesn't like how long it takes nor how she'll be in debt up to her eyeballs.
So taking a year off is not a death sentence. In the process of applying to medical school a lot of us really forget who we are as we try to become the people we feel the admissions committees want us to be. So normally when I think people are crazy when they say they are all about finding themselves maybe us pre-meds really are not that crazy at all.
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Well, today was both a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that it gave me a true sense of finality and a curse in that there's still the possibility of being wait-listed.
I officially put down my $1000 matriculation + $500 housing deposit at AZCOM, and am probably going to withdraw my position from the other school I was WL at, although if WL here and eventually accepted of course I would attend.
Does anyone know if our final grades, EC's, update letters, etc. (post-WL release) have any bearing on our WL position, or is it all pretty much set in stone once it comes out?
I officially put down my $1000 matriculation + $500 housing deposit at AZCOM, and am probably going to withdraw my position from the other school I was WL at, although if WL here and eventually accepted of course I would attend.
Does anyone know if our final grades, EC's, update letters, etc. (post-WL release) have any bearing on our WL position, or is it all pretty much set in stone once it comes out?
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Wow, I had to register just to comment. Admitting someone with a 17 MCAT is very hard to believe. Even if this was Mother Teresa incarnate or Barack Obama (PS1,BS1,VR15,T), I don't think the school was doing a favor by allowing him in to suffer. wouldn't surprise me if this 17 MCAT person was one of the students to fail step one.
I didn't get in. If I did get in, I wouldn't go on the forum and start dispensing newly found wisdom that's like, "You gotta want it bad enough and once you do, your dreams can come true, like mind did! Oh, should I go to Tucson or Phoenix? /Signature: Class of 2013!!!"
Hee-lair-eeus, I say. Lucky, clumsy folks.A razor's edge divides those marginally accepted and those marginally rejected. a capricious boundary. Here's my unsolicited advice: For those who get in through the waitlist, don't ever forget and become full of yourself.
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I wish there was something I could do to help you all out.
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Wow, I had to register just to comment. Admitting someone with a 17 MCAT is very hard to believe. Even if this was Mother Teresa incarnate or Barack Obama (PS1,BS1,VR15,T), I don't think the school was doing a favor by allowing him in to suffer. wouldn't surprise me if this 17 MCAT person was one of the students to fail step one.
I didn't get in. If I did get in, I wouldn't go on the forum and start dispensing newly found wisdom that's like, "You gotta want it bad enough and once you do, your dreams can come true, like mind did! Oh, should I go to Tucson or Phoenix? /Signature: Class of 2013!!!"
Good lord you really went and made such a lame name just to vent about your frustrations? Don't you think everyone is frustrated? Act like an adult. So you didn't get, a lot of us didn't get in. You should realize the fact that you made the account just to vent merely demonstrates a side of your personality they may have saw and not liked?
Another thing, this is the thread for AZ applicants to discuss the school. Those who were fortunate enough to be accepted to both campuses are free to weigh there options here. Stop taking it personally.
For god sakes have some class.
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I almost cried when I had to get a secretary job after I had obtained a magna cum laude in a very intensive major. Furthermore, when I said I "had plans" of going to school, I was shunned so severely.
If I get waitlisted, I'll log back on and post my number. I do wish everyone the best of luck for whichever path you choose. This has been a rough couple of months and my ego is shattered and I need a break.
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Interesting you mention that... the job is actually to be a mentor for young kids with chronic diseases at a summer camp. I wonder if I don't take the job whether I'll be dissapointed in the future for not taking it, since in the grand scheme of things one year off is nothing.
Maybe I should just take the job, and if accepted request to defer a year? Anyone know how successful I'd be if I tried this at UA? Anyone have any info on someone you knew who deferred?
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Embedded in biteMeAdCom's overly harsh post is a truism.
That said, if you don't like the vibe of the discussion, navigate away instead of insulting people.
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I was just about to say that.
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I also agree with the above quote... Needless to say, I'm sure that I can only grow in determination to go to medical school regardless of any setback.... The truth is so frustrating: You don't know how much you want something till its gone. There is no way that someone who gets accepted to some school back in the fall/winter can possibly have the drive, determination and perspiration that I have towards achieving my goal.... I think that for us premeds, the most frustrating part of the process is that at this stage, we don't have an influence anymore. After being in control of all situations for so long, and "knowing" our future paths and careers, it is a huge toil on the ego to realize that you don't have as much control in life as you might wish you had.
(of course, I'm already thinking of how to not screw up as much with my app next year).
(of course, I'm already thinking of how to not screw up as much with my app next year).
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Agreed. For a control freak like me (and probably most of you guys), this is indeed the most difficult process, allowing someone else to determine your fate. Did I mention I am also paranoid now? "Did something happen to my application? What if it got lost?" Too many things to think about...so little sanity.
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While it may be true there is a fine line that separates those admitted from the others you must also realize that we were incredibly fortunate to have a state school that interviews ALL qualified applicants. I don't know of any other school that does this. We all had our chance to show them who we really are. For some it went better than others. Furthermore we each got TWO interviews of which the results were available to both committees to make their decisions on. In my opinion this is about as much of a "chance" as we could ask for.
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Yes, interviewing all applicants can be a good thing or a bad thing because we don't know what sets us apart from each other until we hear whether or not we have been accepted...which keeps things a mystery for a long time...keeps people guessing. That can be quite nerve-racking.
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I agree with all of you guys. No wonder UA loves reapplicants, because maybe they realize the push in determination and drive that those who really want it get from being rejected. Can you imagine knowing what we know now from interviewing, being involved in particular EC's, finding LOR's etc? Reapplicants probably blow alot of us out of the water in what they do in a year-off and with another chance at interviewing and showing their "true self"...
I completely feel all of you. We were always the best in most things we did and always felt completely empowered to do what we needed to do. Now we do not feel like the best in the class anymore, but rejected and embarrased. However, everything is temporary and life goes on. I mentally have put UA out of my mind, and if I happen to get a waitlist email it will truly be a surprise. Now I have to focus on my new life at AZCOM...
Good luck guys and I am positive you will all make great doctors soon.
I completely feel all of you. We were always the best in most things we did and always felt completely empowered to do what we needed to do. Now we do not feel like the best in the class anymore, but rejected and embarrased. However, everything is temporary and life goes on. I mentally have put UA out of my mind, and if I happen to get a waitlist email it will truly be a surprise. Now I have to focus on my new life at AZCOM...
Good luck guys and I am positive you will all make great doctors soon.
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.I'm a little disappointed in not getting an acceptance. I shouldn't be because I'm a junior and am really not suppose to get till next year. Anyone have some words of encouragement? Did I ever really have a chance at getting in without a bachelors degree? I had a 35 MCAT and 3.9 GPA so I thought I had a shot. Reality Check ???.
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Yeah, seems like they've been going to breadth of experience over pure numbers so far.
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Don't get discouraged. Looks like you'll have an awesome chance next round...since the UA LOVES reapplicants...looks like they'll LOVE some of us next year.
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Then again, you may get accepted off the waitlist...don't forget about that!
I know how everyone is feeling
My first year applying my ego was crushed. I came in the process overconfident that my 33Mcat, 3.9 GPA, Great LOTR, having an Uncle as a Dr. would be an automatic acceptance to UofA. Imagine the shock when I got rejected (not even waitlisted) to both Phoenix and Tucson. It was definitely a reality check.
But when I look back at it now, a lot of us think our applications are perfect, but there is always room for improvement.
I highly recommend going for the 1on1 review of your application. Last year I visited Tara at the Phoenix Campus. It was immensely helpful. We went over my AMCAS application (she pointed flaws in some of my experiences), over my interview (she had the report that the interviewers wrote and gave me an overview) and then she gave me a good plan of attack of what I should obtain in the next coming year. In summary it was a great way for me to find the exact weaknesses of my application and what to work on.
She also told me that Phoenix and Tucson have different screening criteria. So if you are more interested in the Tucson campus try to get a review with one of there admission members as opposed to the Phoenix Staff.
One thing she said stood in my mind:
"There were a lot of good applicants this year, but not all of us could go oversees and help the underserved."
Which leads me to believe that Community Service is looked very highly upon at UofA. And is a must for everyone wanting acceptance.
I think it is true that re-applicants are highly regarded, but only if you put in the effort to work on your weaknesses. Just work hard for the next year and I'm positive you'll get good news.
Best of luck everyone.
My first year applying my ego was crushed. I came in the process overconfident that my 33Mcat, 3.9 GPA, Great LOTR, having an Uncle as a Dr. would be an automatic acceptance to UofA. Imagine the shock when I got rejected (not even waitlisted) to both Phoenix and Tucson. It was definitely a reality check.
But when I look back at it now, a lot of us think our applications are perfect, but there is always room for improvement.
I highly recommend going for the 1on1 review of your application. Last year I visited Tara at the Phoenix Campus. It was immensely helpful. We went over my AMCAS application (she pointed flaws in some of my experiences), over my interview (she had the report that the interviewers wrote and gave me an overview) and then she gave me a good plan of attack of what I should obtain in the next coming year. In summary it was a great way for me to find the exact weaknesses of my application and what to work on.
She also told me that Phoenix and Tucson have different screening criteria. So if you are more interested in the Tucson campus try to get a review with one of there admission members as opposed to the Phoenix Staff.
One thing she said stood in my mind:
"There were a lot of good applicants this year, but not all of us could go oversees and help the underserved."
Which leads me to believe that Community Service is looked very highly upon at UofA. And is a must for everyone wanting acceptance.
I think it is true that re-applicants are highly regarded, but only if you put in the effort to work on your weaknesses. Just work hard for the next year and I'm positive you'll get good news.
Best of luck everyone.
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Anyone reapplying next year, please please please meet with the respective schools and figure out what is wrong with your app.
I didn't, which I think was my downfall for my reapplication this year; I assumed the problem was the MCAT, so I retook. Then during the year off, I taught at an alternative school for special ed students, continued volunteering at 2 hospices, played and taught music in elementary/middle schools, one of my research manuscript submissions got published, and I will now also have a master's degree by the end of this spring. I honestly don't know what else I could have done to improve my re-app (although I still think the MCAT is a little low). So long story short, if I had a crappy PS, LOR, crappy interview, etc. I would never know unless I met with an adcom.
And I still won't because I am not reapplying, haha. Good luck to everyone.
I didn't, which I think was my downfall for my reapplication this year; I assumed the problem was the MCAT, so I retook. Then during the year off, I taught at an alternative school for special ed students, continued volunteering at 2 hospices, played and taught music in elementary/middle schools, one of my research manuscript submissions got published, and I will now also have a master's degree by the end of this spring. I honestly don't know what else I could have done to improve my re-app (although I still think the MCAT is a little low). So long story short, if I had a crappy PS, LOR, crappy interview, etc. I would never know unless I met with an adcom.
And I still won't because I am not reapplying, haha. Good luck to everyone.
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There have been some questions regarding how the waitlist works. I thought I would give you all a run-down about how last year worked, thinking it should be similar this year. For Tucson, they emailed everyone on the same day in March who was placed on the waitlist, along with your rank (this can be very helpful but hurtful also, I was 99 out of 109 last year, so I pretty much knew it wasn't going to happen that year). Then, they would call people whenever a spot was given up and go straight down the list--simple. I think they went to the mid 70's last year. Phoenix on the otherhand, is a little more mysterious. They also emailed everyone on the same day who is waitlisted, but they did not give you a rank--I think they wanted the freedom to review applicants again if needed when a spot opens up. I believe that they also made phone calls to inform the waitlisters of their acceptance. I'm not sure of the total that they took from the waitlist last year, but I don't think it was very many (maybe 20 or less?).
So, hope that helps!
So, hope that helps!
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The waitlist went into the 60s last year, 65 from some sources. Don't expect to have them go so deep into it this year. It is more organized this year with the whole rolling admissions process.
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Did you meet the upper division course minimum?
From their website:
Prerequisites
The UA College of Medicine encourages applications from all interested students regardless of their college major. The following minimum requirements must be met by the end of the spring semester prior to matriculation:
- Applicants must successfully complete at least three full years of study (90 semester hours or 135 quarter hours) at an accredited college or university, including 30 semester hours (45 quarter hours) of upper division courses.
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The thing is, I do know someone who got in last year with a 30 MCAT and 4.0 GPA as a junior and ended up graduating early that spring. Maybe it's the same case for this applicant, I don't know.
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You should take the job. If by chance you get an acceptance, there will be nothing more inspiring to those kids to see you go to medical school and achieve your dreams. Something tells me they will be able to fill the spot with someone for the remaining weeks.
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Maybe it's not a choice of one or the other. Perhaps you can work it to go into camp early to help out with planning, and if you have to go to school, you leave a week or two earlier if the responsibilities allow it. Or tell them they don't have to pay you for X weeks or at all if you have to leave early. I think you should talk with the person organizing about possibility of leaving early.
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my username wasn't picked out of anger. frustration, I guess, but it was a childish attempt to inject humor in the most depressing of days and say out loud what some people might be feeling but are too mature to. I like it! But enough about me.
Yes, this is "a thread of AZ applicants to discuss the school". Once they are accepted and are no longer applicants but matriculants, they can discuss further details at the AZ SoM Class of 2013 thread. I think it's inappropriate to publicly compare the merits my favorite shoes in a roomful of people who just had their feet amputated.
Yes, this is "a thread of AZ applicants to discuss the school". Once they are accepted and are no longer applicants but matriculants, they can discuss further details at the AZ SoM Class of 2013 thread. I think it's inappropriate to publicly compare the merits my favorite shoes in a roomful of people who just had their feet amputated.
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In that case I take back my comment about your username. And judging by your well thought out post in response to MadEvans I do not mean to have my comments go as a personal shot against you. However I do disagree with your initial post and the fact that those accepted should be able to discuss the merits of the campuses on here. After all, everyone here interviewed at those campuses and may have valid opinions on them. Also this is where current students have been posting. Thus there are more perspectives available to them when they post in this thread.
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I know this is out of the blue but TeamZ - Do you think Carib students really have to give each other digital rectal exams? I read that in one of your links.
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Hahaha I personally don't believe that just because it seems ridiculous but then again I really have no idea when we have to start doing those. Guaranteed everyone has to do them at some point but I'm just hoping I can postpone that as long as possible.
Regarding those threads, the one was closed for a reason. However as long as you take what you read with a grain of salt I think there is some enlightening info in it.
As far as the whole Carib vs DO route, I personally worked with two cardiologists, one from Ross and the other from AZCOM. I asked them both what they thought about the routes that they took and they both basically responded that they worked there asses off and that was why they were able to get there. They didn't really touch on how much more difficult it would be one way or the other compared to the MD route. My guess is that because not matter which route they could have gone it was going to be extremely hard either way. FYI it was at Good Samaritan which is very friendly to AZCOM students.
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Everyone seems to be worried that UofA isn't going to run deep into its waitlist this year. While there probably won't be quite as many, there will probably still be plenty. This acceptance method seems to be similar to what they used for 2007, which if I am not mistaken took something like 53 off of the waitlist. I couldn't find the info sheet they gave me when I applied last year to get the exact number, but there is still plenty of hope for people waitlisted in the top 50. Unless the economy forces people to stay home for the in-state tuition, of course.
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Yup it's true Carib and DO students have to work their asses off...
But there seems to be one thing a lot of people fail to mention. US MD students have to work their asses off as well. The Carib students might even get a slight advantage with their boards b/c they can take time off before their rotations start and get more time to study for the boards.
Getting into a US school is not a panacea to get the residenc you want. I was flipping through the MSAR and most schools had 2-6% of their class go into ortho rotations. I'm sure there were many more applicants. Just getting into a US MD school does not grant anyone a DERM residency either. I had the fortune to caddy one day for the president of Mt. Sinai in NY and the head of their plastic surgery dept who does interviews. If only I had met them 4 years in the future right? But anyways as he put it "I'm so happy I'm not interviewing now for a residency. It's so much harder to get the spot you want. The guys coming to me are a combination of Albert Einstein and Mother Theresa with publications all over the place. They're so much smarter than me."
If you think it's hard to get into medical school it's going to be even harder to get into that residency spot. I think Mayo or something had 3000 applications for 3 spots or something. If you're a program director and say you have 10 spots and want to do 40 interviews...with 2000 applicants how do you screen them? I would guess first look at their board scores b/c that's universal amongst all schools. GPA/rank is hard to look at b/c all schools do it differently. USMLE/COMLEX is like the MCAT in that regard. So in that sense that initial screening doesn't even take your school into account.
Listen I've worked with Caribbean guys, DO guys...and I've not heard of any of them not doing well. The Surgeon General of the US went to Mexico (Guadalahar sp?) for medical school.
Here's the difference between Caribbean MD and US DO in a really short way:
It's all about what you want to do! They both give you the same oppurtunities. DO is more focused on primary care. You'll have to do some rotations for AZCOM is the middle of nowhere or something close to that (Yuma falls into this category I think). You'll spend more time doing stuff that falls under the family practice umbrella and less time in surgery (depends on the school...NYCOM for example requires 12 weeks of surgery and AZCOM 6). And lets say you want to be a cardiologist...how much do you learn in the 6-12 weeks of clerkships in it? Quite a bit but nowhere near as much as you're going to learn in your 3 years of IM and then 2-3 years of fellowship training after. So overall at the end of residency Caribbean MD, US MD, US DO we're all going to be on a level playing field and have been given the same stuff. What will seperate us is our own individual efforts and how good we want to be and how hard we work.
And it's your career choice as well. As evidenced by my name I'm into the whole nutrition, exercise and supplementation thing. While I want to do pediatrics and love kids (yet most likely don't want any of my own go figure) I could completely see myself running a wellness clinic some day. I could also see myself doing rheumatology or occupational medicine....for these types of fields being a DO gives me a better background and very well might be a better career choice. Again let me repeat that..in some ways being a DO might be a better career choice. But again that's up to you. Some people want their MD initials. There's just more familiarity with it. Doogie Howser was an MD not a DO and we all want to be a boy genius right? So is House. If House was DO maybe more people would be applying osteopathic since they knew what it is.
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For you guys that got in, that is really great. They got 2400 apps for 140 spots.
I agree with Mathlink, with Phx and Tuc combined, there probably will still be 60 coming off the waitlist. 60/400 aren't that bad of odds.
I agree with Mathlink, with Phx and Tuc combined, there probably will still be 60 coming off the waitlist. 60/400 aren't that bad of odds.
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Thanks for the responses, guys. What I've done is denied this particular opportunity (regretfully, because this one was by far the most attractive) and have started looking for similar ones. There wasn't any possibility for me to leave the position early...
Alright, I've seriously got to stop obsessing about medical school admissions and start focusing on my classes now.
Alright, I've seriously got to stop obsessing about medical school admissions and start focusing on my classes now.
I've been following this forum pretty closely, and maybe once have I heard somebody mention applying to out of state schools. Did most of you only apply to U of A and the DO schools? Or did you apply to tons of schools (20 like me..) and just not hear back? Or is U of A just your first choice, and why? With all the depression, anger, etc.. I'm just curious if it's all due to U of A or being rejected by every school you applied to...
Personally, I applied to 12 schools - been rejected by 4, withdrew from 3 (after receiving their secondaries), and have interviewed only here and will in New York in April. I was born and raised in Phoenix and figure I have my whole life to live somewhere else if I want. But with the economy and my less than perfect application, I figured UA was my best chance. And hopefully I'll be on the waitlist, but I'm not holding my breath for an acceptance so I'm getting ready to reapply next year. 🙁
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The first time around I applied to 22 US MD schools and did all the secondaries.
This time around I applied to 15 US MD schools did the secondaries for maybe 7 of them or so? Also I applied to I think 5 or 6 DO schols and did the secondaries for 3 of them.
Too much cost and time with too small of a chance to get in.
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2400? I had read on here/heard through the grapevine that the number of applicants was much lower. An order of magnitude lower...
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2
213965
Actually for this year they said it'll be past 3000. But keep in mind too that they just expanded the class size from 140 to 250.
Anyway, it really sucks being rejected twice from the same school. Sadly, I would of course still attend in a heartbeat if WL and eventually accepted.
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