University of Arizona Questions

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exoslimjim said:
i wonder how ua selects students, cus it is not numbers or exp/service... do the interviews matter a lot?
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It's been beaten in repeatedly... it's not one single thing or another, it's the big, fuzzy, holistic picture of your app file which can shift any direction based on adcom subjective group-think.

Interviews do matter. Interviewers are people, too. who bring their own biases and personal perspectives into the mix. You might get lucky. You might get unlucky. They are not infallible. I know firsthand, because there's one UMC employee I know who was on a past adcom. This person is not the most competent. He would not survive an interview for his own position, 3 out of 5 times. Heck, the Eller College of Management asks for volunteers to interview applicants for its bachelor's program. It truly sucks to be on the applicant end.

Even though there words on anti-age discrimination in their boilerplate policies, it hurts you if you're, say, 50 years old.

It's in your favor to be an under-represented minority, simply because they want a diverse student body. I don't want to stir up any hornets here; argue this on another thread.

I think their mission statement has something about training doctors for the state of Arizona. Thus explains the out-of-state applicant policies. So, if you barely have roots here, it sure doesn't help.
 
mrseltzer said:
could you please tell me what you know about the arizona residency appeal process. How long it takes. Do that get back to you by mail or email etc...
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I've only done it for the undergrad program. I needed to file a petition and scheduled an appt with one of their people. I compiled a file of all my documentation (rental agreements, driver license, voter registration, car registration, W-2s etc.). Basically he reviewed my file and agreed I was an in-state student, so he approved my petition and changed my status in the system. It took <1 week because I met with the person.

Are you able to go down to the office for an appt and explain everything in person with copies of your records?
 
mathlink said:
So it's March 3rd...one year ago today was the day UA released their acceptances. It was much less painful a year ago than it has been for the last three months.

That doesn't mean that we can't have hope. I still think the waitlist will go 40 or 50 deep this year, as it went over 50 two years ago under a similar rolling admissions process. I just wish the adcom would hurry up and get their stuff sent out. Waiting is almost as bad as the rejection itself.
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I agree. And who knows about the waitlist. I, for one, am not going to depend on it for anything. I am currently on another one and am treating it like a rejection. I have friends who were waitlisted at several schools and never made it in anywhere last year, so I don't see why this year would be any different.
 
We don't know...but we are pretty sure within the next 10 days.
 
biteMeAdCom said:
It's been beaten in repeatedly... it's not one single thing or another, it's the big, fuzzy, holistic picture of your app file which can shift any direction based on adcom subjective group-think.

Interviews do matter. Interviewers are people, too. who bring their own biases and personal perspectives into the mix. You might get lucky. You might get unlucky. They are not infallible. I know firsthand, because there's one UMC employee I know who was on a past adcom. This person is not the most competent. He would not survive an interview for his own position, 3 out of 5 times. Heck, the Eller College of Management asks for volunteers to interview applicants for its bachelor's program. It truly sucks to be on the applicant end.

Even though there words on anti-age discrimination in their boilerplate policies, it hurts you if you're, say, 50 years old.

It's in your favor to be an under-represented minority, simply because they want a diverse student body. I don't want to stir up any hornets here; argue this on another thread.

I think their mission statement has something about training doctors for the state of Arizona. Thus explains the out-of-state applicant policies. So, if you barely have roots here, it sure doesn't help.
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I think you have several valid points. In defense of UA, I would just like to point out that NO admissions committee is perfect. Just about every flaw you've mentioned regarding UA's admissions practices you can find at almost every medical school in the US.

I would also argue your claim that being older hurts your application. From an adcom prespective, giving an older applicant a chance could increase the amount of "diversity" in the class and thereby give an older applicant the advantage. We have a number of students in our class who are older and when considering the number of older applicants who applied, I would say that older applicants are probably over-represented (at least in our year's class).
 
I believe in the fast facts sheet, the age range for matriculants was actually 20-46. 46? That's intense. How'd you like to be finishing up your residency when many of your peers are trying to retire?

But I also know a doctor who went to Ross that got rejected by UofA. He was 30, and had been a firefighter for 7 years. He was told he was too old, and should remain a firefighter. Bear in mind this was 15 years ago. Now he makes $400K a year, not bad for a family practice guy.
 
Are you honestly saying that he was actually told that he was too old or was that just assumed? I mean, why would they then allow a 46 year old in?



Thanks Rennykim...that blue hair looked awesome.
 
I'm an older applicant (38) and I wondered how it would affect my chances. The schools I interviewed at seemed to like a mature applicant and you also have more life experiences to draw on. But maybe I didn't even get interviews at some schools because of my age??? I was worried about age being a problem so I worked very hard to be competitive in all aspects of my resume.

I think they would never admit this, but being female and having had children early in life who are now mostly grown, was also a plus for me. I can dedicate myself more completely to medicine as I have to wear fewer hats now. At least it eases my mind as I have managed a business with small children and it is doable, but difficult at times.

For those who haven't been accepted yet and are struggling, there is time. You never know what life will bring and sometimes it's good to be seasoned and tempered. I also have a friend who is a DO and and has a great practice with tons of patients because he is a good caring doc. If medicine is your calling, your time will come and you will be called.
 
Question for all of you:

This has been ravaging my mind this week. I have spent thousands of dollars on this process...MCAT prep...secondaries...primaries...traveling...deposits etc. Not to mention a lot of heartache..and a lot of growing up.

Tommorow or Friday I could get an answer from Midwestern about whether or not I'm in or out. I have an interview scheduled next Tuesday for NYCOM. My heart's in Arizona..all my friends, most of my family etc. But the school in New York is 2 hours away from my Dad who I'm very close with and I like their clinical curriculum (and match list) better. They also have a joint DO/MBA program which I would be interested in pursuing.

But I really want an end to this process (unless I get a magical UA waitlist or acceptance) and don't want to spend close to $500 on traveling and realize I can get where I need to go at either school.
Would you guys still go to the interview if you got in to Midwestern?
 
You should definitely go. You can see your dad, and have a mini vacation in NYC. Also, there may be an aspect that you just love about the school that you cannot glean from the website. What's another $500 in the long run?
 
InvitroDerm said:
You should definitely go. You can see your dad, and have a mini vacation in NYC. Also, there may be an aspect that you just love about the school that you cannot glean from the website. What's another $500 in the long run?
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I think part of me is afraid to like it...and then move back to NY. I was there for a year and it was only when I moved back to AZ that I realized how much I enjoyed the life I had (have) here. The job hunt is not going so well out here (and is on hold til my interviews are over) so I enjoy knowing enough people that I can go out and do something with someone practically whenever. While I don't have issues making new friends (I'll walk right up to people in a bar, walmart, a park, wherever and start talking to them) it sucks having to create a new social circle.
 
Proteinpowda said:
Question for all of you:

This has been ravaging my mind this week. I have spent thousands of dollars on this process...MCAT prep...secondaries...primaries...traveling...deposits etc. Not to mention a lot of heartache..and a lot of growing up.

Tommorow or Friday I could get an answer from Midwestern about whether or not I'm in or out. I have an interview scheduled next Tuesday for NYCOM. My heart's in Arizona..all my friends, most of my family etc. But the school in New York is 2 hours away from my Dad who I'm very close with and I like their clinical curriculum (and match list) better. They also have a joint DO/MBA program which I would be interested in pursuing.

But I really want an end to this process (unless I get a magical UA waitlist or acceptance) and don't want to spend close to $500 on traveling and realize I can get where I need to go at either school.
Would you guys still go to the interview if you got in to Midwestern?
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If you can afford it, I think you should go. I grew up in AZ and still applied to that school because of its match list/curriculum, but unlike you, I never even got the secondary/interview invite. Like Invitro said, what's another $500 vs. a potential lifetime full of regret (assuming you chose AZCOM and absolutely hated it there)... Be sure to post on the AZCOM thread when you hear back tomorrow or Friday! Good luck :luck:
 
natrides said:
I'm an older applicant (38) and I wondered how it would affect my chances
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I believe it has a lot to do with your ability to convince the adcom of what advantages you have with regards to this. For instance, you mentioned that your kids are older now, freeing you up a bit. The way you present this is what I would think matters, as opposed to the simple fact of it.

In my own case, I am 28 and my wife and I had our son in August. In other words, we're gonna be busy over the next few years. During my interview I simply defined this as motivation rather than a setback. I chose to look at it as a blessing rather than a burden. I painted a picture that my family is every reason for me to give this journey my all, not only for our future, but so that I can teach my son what it means to follow dreams and not give up, and so my wife can always know she has a husband who will stop at nothing to follow through with his commitments and make things happen. The thing is, I didn't just say this, I believed it (as I still do), and therefore said it with conviction and intent. My Interviewr and I ended up having a whole conversation on how wonderful it is to have a family as a physician (he had 3 or 4 kids of his own).

I can imagine if I would have gone in with a totally different philisophy but said it with the same intent and level of confidence, it too would have been the "right" thing to say. My point is, I think the interviewers are more responsive to your confidence in your own situation and what it has done for you in your personal maturation, but not so much what the situation is exactly. After all, the diversity they seek would not realy be diversity if they had some "preferred situation" for which the right applicant should fit.

Good luck! I hope it goes perfectly well for you. 🙂
 
Great post Regnar. I bet if you'd have only stated the reasons why your family life wouldn't hold you back (as opposed to, like you said, actually encouraging you to do your very best) you probably wouldn't have gotten such a quick acceptance from UA. I also think that many of the interviewers can sense your genuity, which unfortunately makes rejection even harder to swallow (however, I know there are a lot of factors that go into acceptance vs. rejection). I really hope my interviews were able to sense my passion for medicine.
 
Good post Regna. I also found my daughters to be an inspiration to work hard. (Their help with physics didn't hurt either.)

I planned my timing to co-incide with my yougest going to college so she wouldn't have to move during high school and so I could focus fully on my studies. This was just my particular plan, and certainly wouldn't work with a young family. I talked about it a little in the interviews becase I wanted them to know I had thought things out and had timed my application by choice, not as a default. I think that was helpful.

I was also honest about marrying young and having a child as a teenager and how that had changed my life. I wouldn't change a thing and I think knowing yourself, knowing your motivations, and being able to express them is very valuable in this whole process.
 
From what I have heard in discussions with other UA hopefuls and the admissions staff, the waitlist should be announced on Monday. Also, many of you are saying that the waitlist will only go to 40-50 this year but I have heard nothing aside from the fact that it will go 65+ just like last year. I am really hoping to get in this year and get started on my medical training. Good luck to all of you 🙂
 
indy787 said:
From what I have heard in discussions with other UA hopefuls and the admissions staff, the waitlist should be announced on Monday. Also, many of you are saying that the waitlist will only go to 40-50 this year but I have heard nothing aside from the fact that it will go 65+ just like last year. I am really hoping to get in this year and get started on my medical training. Good luck to all of you 🙂
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Did the Admissions Office tell you the waitlist probably will go about as far as last year?
 
indy787 said:
many of you are saying that the waitlist will only go to 40-50 this year but I have heard nothing aside from the fact that it will go 65+ just like last year.
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Cuddy420 said:
Did the Admissions Office tell you the waitlist probably will go about as far as last year?
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I don't think the admissions staff has any way of knowing that. The number of spots available (i.e. the number of spots available through the waitlist) are simply determined by how many people decide not to matriculate... not by any planning on the part of the admissions office (as the number of seats are the same as last year, and I doubt they will magically open more than the allotted number of spots). The issue here, as previously mentioned, is that due to the rolling process, many seats of people who have dropped out have already been assigned. Thus a logical assumption would be that the waitlist wouldn't go as deep this year.

However, the reality is that there is really no way to tell. I think 2 years ago (if I'm not mistaken) the list went to 30-something, then the previous year to 50-something, and then last year to 65. Because of the rolling admissions process this year, my prediction is that the waitlist will only go from 30-40 this year... but I could be totally off as there is no way to tell. Let's just hope that I am wrong, and that many of us get lucky and the waitlist again runs deep this year. :luck:
 
I think the waitlist will go very far this year. I was told that the overlap between Phoenix and Tuscon was very high. Meaning Tuscon and Phoenix chose mostly the same students. So as the students choose where to go, More Spots will open up.
 
tmdman said:
I think the waitlist will go very far this year. I was told that the overlap between Phoenix and Tuscon was very high. Meaning Tuscon and Phoenix chose mostly the same students. So as the students choose where to go, More Spots will open up.
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That would be FANTASTIC!!!!! 😱Do you mind me asking how reliable your source is?
 
tmdman said:
I think the waitlist will go very far this year. I was told that the overlap between Phoenix and Tuscon was very high. Meaning Tuscon and Phoenix chose mostly the same students. So as the students choose where to go, More Spots will open up.
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That sounds good. I want to believe it, but i am mildly curious as to where you heard it.

Also, do we believe the waitlist for Tucson will come monday? Or is that speculation?
 
Well do you guys see the pattern,

30 in 2006 No Phx campus
50 in 2007 PHX class size of 24
65 in 2008 PHX class size of 48

That corresponds to the opening of the Phoenix Campus. So with the Phoenix Campus now operational, waitlist acceptance will be bigger.

My source come from Tara at the Phx campus. I did a revisit of the campus today. She didnt say anything about the waitlist per se. But her comment about the overlap was very intersting.

She also wants everyone on SDN to know that they are watching and are all knowing. haha.

Hope this helps
 
tmdman said:
My source come from Tara at the Phx campus. I did a revisit of the campus today.
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Sweet dude. So did she say what day they would be releasing the list?

As far as them knowing my identity, its not too difficult if they take a peek at my mdapps....🙄
 
She didn't really mention anything about the waitlist (so like you I have no idea when its coming out).

I just got that quote about the overlap of the 2 campuses
 
Cool, well thanks for the info. I hope those overlapping acceptances were given out late and the students are still deciding because THAT would lead to large waitlist movement. Along with if both campuses waitlist the same students that would work too.

Next week should be an exciting week then 👍
 
tmdman said:
Well do you guys see the pattern,

30 in 2006 No Phx campus
50 in 2007 PHX class size of 24
65 in 2008 PHX class size of 48

That corresponds to the opening of the Phoenix Campus. So with the Phoenix Campus now operational, waitlist acceptance will be bigger.

My source come from Tara at the Phx campus. I did a revisit of the campus today. She didnt say anything about the waitlist per se. But her comment about the overlap was very intersting.

She also wants everyone on SDN to know that they are watching and are all knowing. haha.

Hope this helps
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They could figure my identity out pretty easily too. My username is very similar to my email address, which is a combination of my first and last names. I've been pretty sure all along that they look at sdn. Someone a while back said that Tara told an interview group that they need to watch out for what they read on here because not all of it is true. That doesnt mean that they necessarily read it, but its a strong clue that they might. I wouldnt even be surprised if someone from either admissions office has an account and posts occasionally.
 
Because when you think about it. When a student decides to go out of state instead of here at UofA, that opens up 2 spots not just 1.

Best of Luck Everyone!
 
Now that we have some positive vibes going on about the waitlist, I am just PRAYING for a WL email (step 1). I wonder if someone calls tomorrow if they will release whether or not it is Monday. Do rejections usually always come out the same day as WL? ( I wouldn't see why not, but just wondering.)
 
Cuddy420 said:
Now that we have some positive vibes going on about the waitlist, I am just PRAYING for a WL email (step 1). I wonder if someone calls tomorrow if they will release whether or not it is Monday. Do rejections usually always come out the same day as WL? ( I wouldn't see why not, but just wondering.)
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Last year the rejections came out the same day as the wait list. Oh you did not want to see my face that day. I was like a blank wall for 24 hours. My Dad was completely bummed out too. The doc I was working with completely understood though since he was in the same boat as me 20 years ago (graduated from NYU with honors..all 11s and 12s on his MCAT and didn't get in anywhere. He was headed off to Italy and instead got the invite from St. Georges and went there, now he does pulmonary and critical care and is loved by his patients and other docs).

So I look to that day with both anticipation and dread. All I've had is rejection from UA so I'm classically conditioned to feel sad even before the day in anticipation. Pavlov would ring his bell and the dog would salivate; SDN tells me when the acceptances will be and I should feel gloomy. But I don't. Whatever is will be and I'll make the best of it. There are a myriad of good options at least. They just involve quite a bit more debt and not being so close to my family 🙁

Not to mention I went to my mom's the other day and decided the dog needs more exercise...so now she's my "run in the park" buddy. She's going to be a track star in a few weeks and I'm going to have a nice tan 🙂
 
I guess I'm very lucky to have 1 more interview... ugh, so far away though!
 
I also wanted to mention that I believe there is a larger overlap between the Tucson and Phoenix waitlists than last year--one of my reasons for this is that last year applicants had to make a campus preference before decisions were even made. We were told by admissions that the two campuses then discussed their respective lists with eachother, and for some applicants with strong campus preferences, were basically handed over to the campus they had prefered. In other words, if you expressed you really liked Tucson, Phoenix may have decided to not extend an acceptance or waitlist spot to you. This year, they decided to keep admissions more separate, so many people who were accepted to one campus were also accepted to the other.

So, although I think the semi-rolling process will also have some affect on waitlist movement, I do think a large # of spots will become open due to overlap between the two lists.
 
Proteinpowda said:
Last year the rejections came out the same day as the wait list. Oh you did not want to see my face that day. I was like a blank wall for 24 hours. My Dad was completely bummed out too. The doc I was working with completely understood though since he was in the same boat as me 20 years ago (graduated from NYU with honors..all 11s and 12s on his MCAT and didn't get in anywhere. He was headed off to Italy and instead got the invite from St. Georges and went there, now he does pulmonary and critical care and is loved by his patients and other docs).

So I look to that day with both anticipation and dread. All I've had is rejection from UA so I'm classically conditioned to feel sad even before the day in anticipation. Pavlov would ring his bell and the dog would salivate; SDN tells me when the acceptances will be and I should feel gloomy. But I don't. Whatever is will be and I'll make the best of it. There are a myriad of good options at least. They just involve quite a bit more debt and not being so close to my family 🙁

Not to mention I went to my mom's the other day and decided the dog needs more exercise...so now she's my "run in the park" buddy. She's going to be a track star in a few weeks and I'm going to have a nice tan 🙂
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:laugh: Your post made me laugh because that's exactly how I feel. Even if, by some miracle, I am WL at #8 or something I will still continue to treat that as a rejection based off my previous history with this school.

TeamZissou, my ID is also pretty easy to figure out based on my MDApp/avatar 😉
 
biteMeAdCom said:
The previous blue-haired avatar photo was mesmerizing! just saying the obvious.
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Definitely, that blue-haired picture was awesome. 👍 I've had the privilege of meeting Renny in person and she is no less stunning (and yes, I say this being female and straight). 🙂

rennykim said:
Even if, by some miracle, I am WL at #8 or something I will still continue to treat that as a rejection based off my previous history with this school.
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In my case, even if I am fortunate to get accepted off the waitlist somehow (wishful thinking), I won't be completely at peace or really feel like I've been accepted until my thesis is complete (it's P/F). That whole bit about the UA retracting acceptances for a failing grade is scary. Not that I expect to fail, of course... as one gets a passing grade as soon as the work is complete. It's just that if I run out of time finishing my thesis this semester, get a failing grade... and then appeal the grade for a chance to continue working on my project through the summer... I hope that wouldn't disqualify me from the UA.
 
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rkaz said:
Definitely, that blue-haired picture was awesome. 👍 I've had the privilege of meeting Renny in person and she is no less stunning (and yes, I say this being female and straight). 🙂
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Hey where are the comments telling me how pretty I am? If they don't come soon I'm going to have to die my hair blue or something!
 
rkaz said:
Definitely, that blue-haired picture was awesome. 👍 I've had the privilege of meeting Renny in person and she is no less stunning (and yes, I say this being female and straight). 🙂



In my case, even if I am fortunate to get accepted off the waitlist somehow (wishful thinking), I won't be completely at peace or really feel like I've been accepted until my thesis is complete (it's P/F). That whole bit about the UA retracting acceptances for a failing grade is scary. Not that I expect to fail, of course... as one gets a passing grade as soon as the work is complete. It's just that if I run out of time finishing my thesis this semester, get a failing grade... and then appeal the grade for a chance to continue working on my project through the summer... I hope that wouldn't disqualify me from the UA.
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Haha thanks Rkaz! I didn't realize the blue hair was so popular -- maybe I'll dye it permanently, lol.

Yeah, I'm having difficulty finishing my thesis as well, which is also P/F and I was supposed to start it in Aug, but then I just changed my topic last week so technically I don't have anything yet and I'm supposed to present it in May... if it's not ready I will also fail... hopefully it won't come to that point for either of us, though. The grade appeal process isn't fun -- I had to do that once to erase an "incomplete" from my transcript and that took almost 6 months.
 
Proteinpowda said:
Hey where are the comments telling me how pretty I am? If they don't come soon I'm going to have to die my hair blue or something!
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Hah, I have no idea if you are good looking or not Proteinpowda, but honestly, you have one of the neatest personalities I have come across on SDN. Seriously. (I remember last year talking to you on ValueMD as well when we were both considering going to SGU.) I don't know if we'll be at U of A or AZCOM together this fall, but being classmates would definitely be fun. 🙂
 
rennykim said:
Yeah, I'm having difficulty finishing my thesis as well, which is also P/F and I was supposed to start it in Aug, but then I just changed my topic last week so technically I don't have anything yet and I'm supposed to present it in May... if it's not ready I will also fail... hopefully it won't come to that point for either of us, though. The grade appeal process isn't fun -- I had to do that once to erase an "incomplete" from my transcript and that took almost 6 months.
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I hope you get your thesis complete in time as well. If it's any consolation, AZCOM has given us unconditional acceptances... meaning that our performance this term has no bearing on anything, so we WILL be med students this year. However, even though I am VERY excited about AZCOM, it would still be a crushing blow to be fortunate enough to get accepted to UA and then it have it taken away for something silly like this.

If I need to work 12+ hours every day for the next several weeks to finish my thesis, then that's just what I have to do to get it done. I probably should be spending less time on SDN, but coming on here is my stress relief. 😳
 
rkaz said:
Hah, I have no idea if you are good looking or not Proteinpowda, but honestly, you have one of the neatest personalities I have come across on SDN. Seriously. (I remember last year talking to you on ValueMD as well when we were both considering going to SGU.) I don't know if we'll be at U of A or AZCOM together this fall, but being classmates would definitely be fun. 🙂
Click to expand...

I'm not that hard to stalk on myspace 🙂 Try using my name after the .com/ and see what happens.
 
rkaz said:
Hah, I have no idea if you are good looking or not Proteinpowda, but honestly, you have one of the neatest personalities I have come across on SDN.
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Aw but I thought it was what's on the inside that matters :laugh:

Side note- Has anyone actually CONFIRMED that monday is the waitlist release? Or are we going off of hearsay?
 
Hahaha I went with my best guess but turned out to be right

Hearsay
1 : rumor
2 : hearsay evidence

Heresy
1 a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2 a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards
 
TeamZissou said:
Hahaha I went with my best guess but turned out to be right

Hearsay
1 : rumor
2 : hearsay evidence

Heresy
1 a: adherence to a religious opinion contrary to church dogma b: denial of a revealed truth by a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church c: an opinion or doctrine contrary to church dogma
2 a: dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice b: an opinion, doctrine, or practice contrary to the truth or to generally accepted beliefs or standards
Click to expand...

I know...I myself had to look up the difference on dictionary.com before I posted it. But I figured posting that along with the proper smiley face (I think I chose the wrong one) would produce a good laugh.

I think I'm going to take your advice and book that flight too...decisions decisions. Midwestern is not telling us til tommorow I think.
 
natrides said:
I talked about it a little in the interviews becase I wanted them to know I had thought things out and had timed my application by choice, not as a default. I think that was helpful.
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I would venture a guess that it would be helpful. I mean, it would seem that your explaining this would have been a good thing, simply because doing so would let them see what it really is to you. As I had mentioned, it would occur to me that being able to let them know what it means to you is something good. However, like all of the rest of you I am not and have not been on an adcom, so I can do no more than provide my best guess as to how they operate based on this whole experience. Regarding how much the story in itself weighs in the eyes of the adcoms, it seems like you do have a rather unique one they must have enjoyed hearing about. I could never imagine that being a setback in their eyes. Besides, you've already been accepted at one campus right? That means they must think your application is a good match 👍...lets cross our fingers :xf: the other campus sees the same thing (if the other one is your prefered campus anyhow).

I wish you the best and can't wait to hear the good news...the same goes for the rest of you waiting for your spot to open up. :luck:

By the way, I just re-read my earlier post and it looked like it could come across as me comparing stories or something. I hope it didn't sound like that as that is not at all what I was trying to do. Rather, I was just giving an example about how any story can be used to an advantage by the way it's presented.
 
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