VA jobs - insiders only?

[giraffe-pudding]

Is a VA something you have to do residency at/have connections at in order to get a job? Thinking about the upcoming job search and a position at one really feels like something I would enjoy.

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[heybrother]

It was suggested to me if the job posting is only for 2 weeks they already know who they want.

The popularity for these positions increased when the pay increased.

 

[Feli]

It is a case by case basis... most VA and IHS jobs usually post for anywhere 2wks until infinity (filling the position). Some posts (VA or otherwise) are just a formality (per bylaws or whatever), and the position is already filled internally.

The main websites are:
www.usajobs.gov
www.ihs.gov

There was a thread on this and other VA stuff recently:

VA Podiatry a good gig?

Hey all, I am an incoming 1st year podiatry student and currently applying for scholarships. The Veterans Health Administration (VA) are giving out 4 year scholarships and am currently applying to it. Per the agreement, accepting 4 year full ride scholarship will require you to work for the VA...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[Shiyuan]

Looking myself for VA gig. If you notice on USAJOBS, they currently have 2 positions in CA with 6+ month posting. The other one in Delaware just a few weeks.

I would recommend looking more rural (hopefully not as many applicants). Many postings also have ABPM or ACFAS BQ/BC as “preferred experience”.

 

[heybrother]

When I was a 3rd year I applied for at least 1 VA job. One of the things that stood out to me was I believe the application required me to indicate I already had a full state license in the applicable state. There was literally a click through questionnaire during the submission that required me to indicate I had this license. I clicked no and I believe my application was essentially instantly killed. Not sure how a new grad would overcome this ie. click yes and then call HR, have an inside track. This may or may not be a real issue - perhaps its just poor setup on the VAs part like when places want list a podiatry job but then still ask for an MD.

 

[Shiyuan]

When I was a 3rd year I applied for at least 1 VA job. One of the things that stood out to me was I believe the application required me to indicate I already had a full state license in the applicable state. There was literally a click through questionnaire during the submission that required me to indicate I had this license. I clicked no and I believe my application was essentially instantly killed. Not sure how a new grad would overcome this ie. click yes and then call HR, have an inside track. This may or may not be a real issue - perhaps its just poor setup on the VAs part like when places want list a podiatry job but then still ask for an MD.

The VA allows any state license to practice at any facility. This seems odd?

 

[heybrother]

The VA allows any state license to practice at any facility. This seems odd?

I only had a temporary/training at the time ie. had not graduated.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

Looking myself for VA gig. If you notice on USAJOBS, they currently have 2 positions in CA with 6+ month posting. The other one in Delaware just a few weeks.

I would recommend looking more rural (hopefully not as many applicants). Many postings also have ABPM or ACFAS BQ/BC as “preferred experience”.

I think most places do prefer 2-3 years experience unless you trained there and it’s more of an inside hire. Also I think the spots are pretty competitive now even rural from what I’ve seen. I forget what facility it was but I recall one posting recently on usajobs that said they would stop accepting applications after the first 100.

 

[blasthardcheese]

When I was a 3rd year I applied for at least 1 VA job. One of the things that stood out to me was I believe the application required me to indicate I already had a full state license in the applicable state. There was literally a click through questionnaire during the submission that required me to indicate I had this license. I clicked no and I believe my application was essentially instantly killed. Not sure how a new grad would overcome this ie. click yes and then call HR, have an inside track. This may or may not be a real issue - perhaps its just poor setup on the VAs part like when places want list a podiatry job but then still ask for an MD.

I had the same experience applying for VA job in 3rd year and I'm pretty sure my application got killed as well because of the license box. However, I did call HR and they told me it me to email them the my CV because they can accept provider applications outside of USA jobs. Never heard from them after that; they probably already had someone in mind.

 

[heybrother]

I think most places do prefer 2-3 years experience unless you trained there and it’s more of an inside hire. Also I think the spots are pretty competitive now even rural from what I’ve seen. I forget what facility it was but I recall one posting recently on usajobs that said they would stop accepting applications after the first 100.

I saw a similar listing. My immediate assumption was - they already know who they want. Its more clever than waiting 2 weeks. Whatever you think is the right number of applications to look at - shut it down after you have 25 or 50 or 100 or whatever. You could potentially close the listing in a day depending on what the job market is or what the position is located.

 

[GreenHousePub]

The VA allows any state license to practice at any facility. This seems odd?

Not really, when you set foot inside a VA you are no longer in a state but on federal property. Therefore any state license will suffice.

A full, unrestricted, license is required for most federal employment.

 

[619]

I forget what facility it was but I recall one posting recently on usajobs that said they would stop accepting applications after the first 100.

OH wow. 100 applicants for 1 damm position. I wonder if any MD or DO opening get that many applications for 1 position. Just shows that Podiatry still has a long way to go.

 

[Pronation]

OH wow. 100 applicants for 1 damm position. I wonder if any MD or DO opening get that many applications for 1 position. Just shows that Podiatry still has a long way to go.

Better open even more schools! You think the sleazy pod private practice associate mills don't see the writing on the wall?

 

[DYK343]

OH wow. 100 applicants for 1 damm position. I wonder if any MD or DO opening get that many applications for 1 position. Just shows that Podiatry still has a long way to go.

I do think its changing. Hospital/MSG even ortho is getting more and more accessible

 

[619]

I do think its changing. Hospital/MSG even ortho is getting more and more accessible

Yes to be optimistic, you are right. However I bet 20 years from now, over 50% of new graduate will still be accepting the $80k-$110K base offer with 20%-30% "bonus" after bringing in 3x. So we will have a long way to go as a profession.

NPs and PAs at this very moment are commanding over $100k base pay starting out.

 

[heybrother]

Yes to be optimistic, you are right. However I bet 20 years from now, over 50% of new graduate will still be accepting the $80k-$110K base offer with 20%-30% "bonus" after bringing in 3x. So we will have a long way to go as a profession.

NPs and PAs at this very moment are commanding over $100k base pay starting out.

I can only imagine the dramatic changes that might someday come to the healthcare market.

The end of the malpractice system from a litigation bonanza to a real system. ...Also, no tail.

The wide spread recognition that non-competes deny communities care.

An end to the horrible for profit medical school racket and ever increasing student loans.

Who the hell knows what with Medica...id (oh, oh!) for all. No more closed panels. No more trying to negotiate better deals with insurance companies. No additional payment to hospitals for the same service a PP doctor provides. Every patient an entitled psychopath.

But rest assured, podiatrists will still be paying their associates 25%! Boom!

I just wanted to build us all up their to something more closely resembling a possible future reality!

Random thing, not saying I want Medicare for all, but imagine a world where a doctor could simply move to an area and see patients. No eternal credentialing. No closed panels. Wild.

 

[CutsWithFury]

It is sad when new podiatrist grads are resorting to VA jobs. Don't get me wrong it is a sweet gig but not ideal if you wish to become ABFAS board certified one day. Lots of politics most likely with the lazy orthopedists who are also employed there for the cushy job too.

I tell you what. The job market is very poor these days and it is because of our own doing in combination with COVID. Fellowship training was supposed to usher in this new paradigm of well trained podiatrists who would compete with foot and ankle ortho. That hasn't come to fruition. A lot of fellowship trained grads are going to PP pod associate jobs rather than breaking down doors into new markets. Why? Because the ACFAS podium pods in the area are doing their best to block them or there is some other alternative politics going on within podiatry.

New grads probably don't know how to market themselves to hospitals and in that case they don't deserve that hospital job in an untapped area. Or maybe the job market is that poor. Scary business these days.

 

[JewOnThis]

You need connections. I don’t know one person who has gotten into the VA without connections.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

It is sad when new podiatrist grads are resorting to VA jobs. Don't get me wrong it is a sweet gig but not ideal if you wish to become ABFAS board certified one day. Lots of politics most likely with the lazy orthopedists who are also employed there for the cushy job too.

I tell you what. The job market is very poor these days and it is because of our own doing in combination with COVID. Fellowship training was supposed to usher in this new paradigm of well trained podiatrists who would compete with foot and ankle ortho. That hasn't come to fruition. A lot of fellowship trained grads are going to PP pod associate jobs rather than breaking down doors into new markets. Why? Because the ACFAS podium pods in the area are doing their best to block them or there is some other alternative politics going on within podiatry.

New grads probably don't know how to market themselves to hospitals and in that case they don't deserve that hospital job in an untapped area. Or maybe the job market is that poor. Scary business these days.

What is the sad part about working at the VA? Just curious.
The pay, benefits and workload on average are much better than working as an associate in a podiatry associate mill.
At some facilities ortho wants all the foot and ankle trauma at others they send it all to podiatry. With the new number changes to abfas getting the numbers was eaaasy for me.

 

[619]

You need connections. I don’t know one person who has gotten into the VA without connections.

This is 100% correct.

99.99% of jobs posted for a VA opening especially in a major city or attractive location, they already know and have who they want. The online posting is all formality per federal laws of "equal employment opportunity". Nothing is equal about life in general.

 

[619]

What is the sad part about working at the VA? Just curious.

He meant that the sad part is that you may not get enough surgery case diversity to get ABFAS board certified. Not the end of the world in my opinion.

However, you can be ABPM board certified and have a rich $ filled career. Truth is, with the 7 year window, not everyone will have the surgery case to be ABFAS certified. Not sure if any changes was made due to the pandemic and elective surgery being cancelled for extended periods in some parts of the country.

 

[Shiyuan]

How would a non-VA doctor even have a chance then if all the postings are essentially worthless and a formality?
Not sure I believe that entirely. It would come to a point where no one internal to the VA wants that position and they have to hire out.

 

[Utvolsdpm]

How would a non-VA doctor even have a chance then if all the postings are essentially worthless and a formality?
Not sure I believe that entirely. It would come to a point where no one internal to the VA wants that position and they have to hire out.

I think what they are saying is - for example: the chief of podiatry has a friend in private practice in the same city. He says - hey why not come work at the VA? They accept. The job then gets posted, they throw all the extraneous applications in the garbage and the friend gets hired.

Someone up above alluded to it already - but there is probably a lot better chance at getting in at a rural, “less desirable” location. The chiefs in desirable locations are more than likely getting contacting regularly about potential openings.

 

[Shiyuan]

That makes sense... network, network network!

 

[Feli]

It is sad when new podiatrist grads are resorting to VA jobs. Don't get me wrong it is a sweet gig but not ideal if you wish to become ABFAS board certified one day. Lots of politics most likely with the lazy orthopedists who are also employed there for the cushy job too.

I tell you what. The job market is very poor these days and it is because of our own doing in combination with COVID. Fellowship training was supposed to usher in this new paradigm of well trained podiatrists who would compete with foot and ankle ortho. That hasn't come to fruition. A lot of fellowship trained grads are going to PP pod associate jobs rather than breaking down doors into new markets. Why? Because the ACFAS podium pods in the area are doing their best to block them or there is some other alternative politics going on within podiatry.

New grads probably don't know how to market themselves to hospitals and in that case they don't deserve that hospital job in an untapped area. Or maybe the job market is that poor. Scary business these days.

I would say this is pretty accurate even 10 years ago, but there are two major factors in play now:

1) VA jobs do pay better (Trump parity from his 1st year in office).

2) The job market is ruff ruff rough right now.
There are fewer and fewer undertrained DPMs, new schools and more grads, and there are just not a lot of outpatient visits (podiatry or otherwise) due to COVID fears and COVID economy. A lot of DPM and MD grads coming out of training are scared, so the relative security of VA or IHS is looking better than ever. A lot of 2019 and 2020 grads in private practice or MSG (or even ppl who have been there 3 years yet are still lowest on the totem for their specialty) are being let go or asked to take pay cuts due to lack of pts... again, not just podiatry. A lot of non-govt hospital employees and ortho group associates have to be pretty careful right now too since many of their peers are job shopping right now since their job is shaky or they don't have one. The elective volume is not good, the patients are reluctant to come in unless they really need to. Govt hospitals are not totally immune to that, but they are significantly more insulated financially. At the end of the day, the only thing booming right now is inpatient and ICU bed usage... great time to angle for raises as an ICU nurse or pulm or ID doc, lol. Podiatrist or most other doc types? Not so much... pretty risky to force a raise or to change jobs (since you might land on a new island that's even more wobbly).

...so, the woeful old VA with straight salary is looking fairly good after all (for pod or any doc largely outpatient). I am probably the furthest from a doom-and-gloomer, and I think this is a temporary fog over the podiatry and overall medical professions, though. It will normalize and private/outpatient will boom again, but it could get worse before it gets better. In the near term, those VA jobs, much like all podiatry hosp/MSG/ortho jobs will remain pretty tough to get - esp if they have a good area and/or a good group of DPMs.

________________________________________________

OH wow. 100 applicants for 1 damm position. I wonder if any MD or DO opening get that many applications for 1 position. Just shows that Podiatry still has a long way to go.

This is actually not too hard to achieve. If you put ads in the right places and/or use your networking, you can get so many apps that you have to shut it down after a week or less. I've done that when I was in MSG or in PP and helped my managers post. Now, were they all legit apps that would interview or be worth interviewing? Heck no... many are just fishing around, sometimes many states away without a license in the job state, applying to everything they see (common among residents). Others like their present gig but just want to try to see what the pay is. Many are totally unqualified. But still, it is not hard to draw a lot.

...some jobs, like the Univ Minn Ortho dept podiatry job on podiatrycareers.org (at least it was a week or two ago?), probably got 500 or more. No joke. And half of them were prob even ABFAS qual/cert.

 

[DYK343]

He meant that the sad part is that you may not get enough surgery case diversity to get ABFAS board certified. Not the end of the world in my opinion.

However, you can be ABPM board certified and have a rich $ filled career. Truth is, with the 7 year window, not everyone will have the surgery case to be ABFAS certified. Not sure if any changes was made due to the pandemic and elective surgery being cancelled for extended periods in some parts of the country.

I dont think that is entirely true. I went through a few VAs as a student.

One was absolute crap. Horrid training. Cut nails 5-6hrs a day and residents beg to triple scrub a hammertoe from an attending with a 2nd year pod student knowledge. Everyone was done by 2-3PM every day. No one cared (myself included place sucked). Pretty sure residents lied to get their numbers.

The other two seemed to have decent resident training. One in particular wasnt my favorite program i visited/rotated but they had some good attendings and good case volume, including RRA. One of the attendings I learned the most from as a student was at that VA. He seemed to actually care and quizzed/took time/stayed late/didnt sit on his chair and click buttons while residents presented to him. I ranked that VA #3.

The problem with VA is the attendings only work as hard as they have to. The numbers for ABFAS are there if you're a go getter.

Or you ride the gravy train and go home at 2PM which is hard to deny.

- - -

And side note. Whether you agree on the politics or not you really need to get ABFAS certified. ABPM is worthless. If you leave the VA your options will be limited. I cant operate where I am without ABFAS qualified/certified. No exceptions. Sure ABPM can come in and argue but ortho only recognizes ABFAS and I am under the department of ortho. A LOT of hospitals require ABFAS. Changing their culture is not easy. Just get the certification and move on. It was a pain in the assand expensive but wasnt impossible.

 

[619]

ABPM is worthless

I disagree with this statement.

 

[Shiyuan]

ABPM been good to me as well. Good thing VA accepts both.

 

[JewOnThis]

The highest earning DPM from my group is ABPM. She does more surgeries than the abfas ones. Kind of funny how things worked out for that individual.

 

[619]

ABFAS and ABPM are both sides of the same coin, you cannot accept one without accepting the other and you can't reject one without rejecting the other OR just like the 2 testicles, one may be higher than the other but they both "balls" in the same damm sac performing the same function under the same physiologic condition.

Those who say there is some ortho doc or administration only accepting one and not the other, it is typical politics but illegal.

 

[619]

This is a good explanation from Dr Rogers @diabeticfootdr

"your hospital and surgical privileges must be based on your education, training, and experience, not on your board certification. In fact, it's illegal (codified in the Medicare Conditions of Participation) for institutions to use board certification as the sole criterion in privileging.

Education = your DPM degree, which has been standardized by CPME for decades
Training = your residency program, which has been standardized by CPME in Podiatric Medicine and Surgery since 2004 and 3 years in 2012
Experience = is how many cases you've done of whatever privilege you're applying for (for example, if you don't have any experience in ankle implants, you won't get that privilege no matter what your board certification is)

Thus, every graduate from a DPM school who completes a residency program should be eligible for hospital and surgical privileges based on their experience.

All of these requirements are on www.podiatryprivileges.com "

 

[PTPuser]

Sorry for the stupid question, but do people get double board in ABPM and ABFAS or is that not a thing / impossible, in order to widen your net?

 

[josebiwasabi]

You can be double boarded but it's a waste of money paying for the exams and annual membership dues. If you get BC by ABFAS there's no need for ABPM.

 

[PTPuser]

You can be double boarded but it's a waste of money paying for the exams and annual membership dues. If you get BC by ABFAS there's no need for ABPM.

What if you can't get the numbers for BC and you only have BQ? or what if you fail? Can you back to ABPM?

 

[heybrother]

Did ABPM always have the garbage money stealing MOC? PP pays ABFAS dues but not ABPM so now I'm paying $500+ out of my own pocket trying to cover my future since the virus has destroyed surgical volume.

Double boarded? ABPM would like a $1600 MOC on top of dues and I'm sure they'll try and trap us into using their garbage CME.

 

[josebiwasabi]

What if you can't get the numbers for BC and you only have BQ? or what if you fail? Can you back to ABPM?

The American Board of Podiatric Medicine (ABPM)

The American Board of Podiatric Medicine (ABPM) exists to offer podiatric physicians a comprehensive board qualification and certification process.

www.abpmed.org

• Candidates are granted Board Eligible status for 8 years upon completion of an approved CPME residency.
  An additional 5 years of eligibility will be granted if certification is attempted but not achieved in the first 8 years. Candidates in this group must pass both sections of the Certification Exam in the same year to achieve certified status.

So basically if you run out of the 7 years of ABFAS eligibility, you take the ABPM exam before your 8th year from residency graduation. If you fail the ABPM exam, you have another 5 years to pass it.

 

[dtrack22]

So basically if you run out of the 7 years of ABFAS eligibility, you take the ABPM exam before your 8th year from residency graduation. If you fail the ABPM exam, you have another 5 years to pass it.

In the real world you need to be board certified within 5 years from finishing residency. Well, unless you want to be relegated to seeing Medicare/Medicaid patients in clinic all day. No hospital or surgery center privileges and you can’t join most commercial plan networks without BC any more. And since MDs have 5 years to become certified, that’s how long everyone else not named ABPM or ABFAS gives you.

 

[PTPuser]

In the real world you need to be board certified within 5 years from finishing residency. Well, unless you want to be relegated to seeing Medicare/Medicaid patients in clinic all day. No hospital or surgery center privileges and you can’t join most commercial plan networks without BC any more. And since MDs have 5 years to become certified, that’s how long everyone else not named ABPM or ABFAS gives you.

Is this the same rule for BQ in the process of becoming BC for ABFAS? Cause I'm assuming ABPM is just one exam correct?

 

[Feli]

...The numbers for ABFAS are [available at VA hospitals] if you're a go getter...

Not really. CutsWith did have a valid point on that. The VA patients are nearly all male. Many have psych issues. OR turnover times tend to be slow. It is harder to get the requisite volume and diversity for ABFAS. Not impossible... but undoubtedly a much more uphill battle than in MSG, ortho, hosp employed, most PP, etc.

I can only speak for myself, but a quick look at my cases on my logs showed 65/35% F/M since residency, and I'd estimate 80 or even 90% of the bunions and hammertoes I have repaired surgically are female (male hammertoes that go to surgery seem to be mostly only be on cavus or severe flat foot, etc). Coughlin and many other large demographic studies have echoed this again and again... female predilection to flexibility stuff - esp HAV.

For flat foot, neuromas, etc, those are also more common for female. Women just have more flexibility, wear tighter shoes with less accommodation or room for insoles/pads (generally), and have statistically fewer of those problems (at least in the surgical literature... and my exp). That's a fact. Men have more fractures and amps, but they tend to wear more spacious shoes and be more likely to "tough it out." In addition to less male HAV/toes/etc, seeking care for elective deformities is also less likely in men than women (this goes for foot deformity problems and most other health problems - which is why women do more doc visits overall and live longer since they get CA detected, CP treated, HTN onto Rx, etc sooner).

Again, certainly not bashing VA jobs... just giving food for thought - esp for new grads or those who haven't gotten ABFAS numbers/diversity yet. I think of the VA/IHS jobs like the utility stocks and dividend stocks or something. They are stable and functional. Solid but not exciting... stable floor to stand on but a farily limited top end. Most folks ignore those gas companies and grocery store stocks during the booms in favor of the tech stocks and the growth ones (Tesla, Netflix, etc). Those growth/tech stocks would be your private practice and MSG/ortho... higher top end yet largely collection/RVU driven. Then, a lull hits (COVID), and suddenly the stability of the dividend and "boring" stocks like P&G or Krogrer are looking pretty good again. It goes in cycles... right now, the job market is bad, economy is crap... yet the stocks are somehow ok (for now?).

BTW, for those who want govt work, this is where IHS pod job can shine... you still have about the same female/male/peds mix that you'd have in private prac in that area. Where it loses its luster for most is that most of them are in rural or minimally desired areas (while VAs are in/near metros).

... Whether you agree on the politics or not you really need to get ABFAS certified. ABPM is worthless...

ABPM is a lot better than nothing and infinitely better than the fake (unrecognized) podiatry boards. ABPM is APMA-recognized and will still get you consult/wound privileges at most places. It might get you surgical privileges at some hospitals (typically not major hospitals or competitive metros, though). But yeah, all residencies are now meant to lead to ABFAS and everyone should have that as a goal, though.

Even if you have ABFAS BQ/BC, ABPM is still a good backup, and it is also really good early since you can get it right away (makes getting on insurances easier if they don't understand BQ for ABFAS or simply don't understand pod boards well at all). This in line with what dtrack said: hospitals and payers and office managers just want to see BC status. I would recommend ABPM to everyone right out of training while they are ABFAS qual, and I'd recommend ABPM permanently to those who can't pass ABFAS. A lot of payers just want to see board cert (but privilege decision makers tend to know what's what and prefer/require ABFAS). It is never going to hurt you to be redundant with both recognized boards, esp while you're not ABFAS cert yet. I still carry both boards to this day... but yeah, I might let ABPM go if my job didn't pay for it.

 

[DYK343]

Not really. CutsWith did have a valid point on that. The VA patients are nearly all male. Many have psych issues. OR turnover times tend to be slow. It is harder to get the requisite volume and diversity for ABFAS. Not impossible... but undoubtedly a much more uphill battle than in MSG, ortho, hosp employed, most PP, etc.

I can only speak for myself, but a quick look at my cases on my logs showed 65/35% F/M since residency, and I'd estimate 80 or even 90% of the bunions and hammertoes I have repaired surgically are female (male hammertoes that go to surgery seem to be mostly only be on cavus or severe flat foot, etc). Coughlin and many other large demographic studies have echoed this again and again... female predilection to flexibility stuff - esp HAV.

For flat foot, neuromas, etc, those are also more common for female. Women just have more flexibility, wear tighter shoes with less accommodation or room for insoles/pads (generally), and have statistically fewer of those problems (at least in the surgical literature... and my exp). That's a fact. Men have more fractures and amps, but they tend to wear more spacious shoes and be more likely to "tough it out." In addition to less male HAV/toes/etc, seeking care for elective deformities is also less likely in men than women (this goes for foot deformity problems and most other health problems - which is why women do more doc visits overall and live longer since they get CA detected, CP treated, HTN onto Rx, etc sooner).

Again, certainly not bashing VA jobs... just giving food for thought - esp for new grads or those who haven't gotten ABFAS numbers/diversity yet. I think of the VA/IHS jobs like the utility stocks and dividend stocks or something. They are stable and functional. Solid but not exciting... stable floor to stand on but a farily limited top end. Most folks ignore those gas companies and grocery store stocks during the booms in favor of the tech stocks and the growth ones (Tesla, Netflix, etc). Those growth/tech stocks would be your private practice and MSG/ortho... higher top end yet largely collection/RVU driven. Then, a lull hits (COVID), and suddenly the stability of the dividend and "boring" stocks like P&G or Krogrer are looking pretty good again. It goes in cycles... right now, the job market is bad, economy is crap... yet the stocks are somehow ok (for now?).

BTW, for those who want govt work, this is where IHS pod job can shine... you still have about the same female/male/peds mix that you'd have in private prac in that area. Where it loses its luster for most is that most of them are in rural or minimally desired areas (while VAs are in/near metros).

ABPM is a lot better than nothing and infinitely better than the fake (unrecognized) podiatry boards. ABPM is APMA-recognized and will still get you consult/wound privileges at most places. It might get you surgical privileges at some hospitals (typically not major hospitals or competitive metros, though). But yeah, all residencies are now meant to lead to ABFAS and everyone should have that as a goal, though.

Even if you have ABFAS BQ/BC, ABPM is still a good backup, and it is also really good early since you can get it right away (makes getting on insurances easier if they don't understand BQ for ABFAS or simply don't understand pod boards well at all). This in line with what dtrack said: hospitals and payers and office managers just want to see BC status. I would recommend ABPM to everyone right out of training while they are ABFAS qual, and I'd recommend ABPM permanently to those who can't pass ABFAS. A lot of payers just want to see board cert (but privilege decision makers tend to know what's what and prefer/require ABFAS). It is never going to hurt you to be redundant with both recognized boards, esp while you're not ABFAS cert yet. I still carry both boards to this day... but yeah, I might let ABPM go if my job didn't pay for it.

Yeah, I agree with the above. VA #'s are there but you gotta be a go getter to get it. Or just go home at 3PM like everyone else.

Your above point on male only and their typical pathology is true. Something I didnt consider when I wrote the above comments is that when I was a student I was seeing lots of those cases but they were at off site surgery centers during non VA-rotations for the residents. A standard VA attending may have difficulty getting the required elective forefoot cases.

- - -

Where i trained (large metro hospital) ABFAS (cert/qual) was the only recognized board. A new attending with ABPM was not allowed to operate.

Where I am currently practicing ABFAS is the only accepted board for surgical priveleging. ABPM will not cut it.

I interviewed at several hospital/MSGs. They wanted ABFAS certified and they immediately lost interest when I told them I was qualified. I doubt ABPM would have cut it in their eyes.

ABPM is better than nothing. ABPM may get you into rural areas or if you are willing to fight the laws ABPM will probably pass (minus a couple states, there is still some bias. Conneticut and maybe New York?) but you're going to have to lawyer up and fight the laws in place. All a pain when you could just get the ABFAS which is recognized nationwide and is viewed as the leading surgical board. Recertify every 10 years and be done with it.

I am not saying I agree with it. I am not saying ABPM should not have equal rights. I am just relaying what I know to be true in the areas I have practiced. I also know it to be true (as Feli said) most large hospital systems want ABFAS. If youre going to spend the rest of your life operating at a small rural surgery center somewhere ABPM will probably be just fine.

Its most wise to just get ABFAS and move on. It really wasnt that hard to get certified.

- - -

Edit: To those saying not all can meet ABFAS requirements for certification (65 foot surgeries over 7 years) then ABPM is a better option. I completely agree with that. If you cant get 65 cases in 7 years maybe you should put down the knife and not worry about securing hospital OR time and be non surgical. In that case ABPM is going to be the way to go. There is nothing wrong with non op care and eventually I plan to go that way myself years down the road. But if a student/resident is reading this and wants to be surgical I would strongly recommend ABFAS certification because after 7 years from residency graduation if you dont have it you never will be able to get it. You are pigeon holing yourself in your career.

 

[deleted1097757]

When I was a 3rd year I applied for at least 1 VA job. One of the things that stood out to me was I believe the application required me to indicate I already had a full state license in the applicable state. There was literally a click through questionnaire during the submission that required me to indicate I had this license. I clicked no and I believe my application was essentially instantly killed. Not sure how a new grad would overcome this ie. click yes and then call HR, have an inside track. This may or may not be a real issue - perhaps its just poor setup on the VAs part like when places want list a podiatry job but then still ask for an MD.

I clicked Yes to the question that asked if I completed residency (currently a third year) and yes to if i had a license and I got two interviews. I also attached my CV which said I was a current third year and I knew if i had clicked No to those questions then I wouldnt have gotten those interviews.

 

[619]

Congratulations @coffeeisgreat . Very happy for you. Hard work sure pays off.

 

[deleted1097757]

Congratulations @coffeeisgreat . Very happy for you. Hard work sure pays off.

Thank you!

 

[dpmgrad]

He meant that the sad part is that you may not get enough surgery case diversity to get ABFAS board certified. Not the end of the world in my opinion.

However, you can be ABPM board certified and have a rich $ filled career. Truth is, with the 7 year window, not everyone will have the surgery case to be ABFAS certified. Not sure if any changes was made due to the pandemic and elective surgery b

He meant that the sad part is that you may not get enough surgery case diversity to get ABFAS board certified. Not the end of the world in my opinion.

However, you can be ABPM board certified and have a rich $ filled career. Truth is, with the 7 year window, not everyone will have the surgery case to be ABFAS certified. Not sure if any changes was made due to the pandemic and elective surgery being cancelled for extended periods in some parts of the country.

As DYK343 alluded, not all VAs are the same. There are several VAs, especially the ones with active Podiatric Surgery services, where one can get the diversity in cases needed for ABFAS boards. The younger colleagues got all of their forefoot and rearfoot numbers at my VA within 3 years for ABFAS. At my VA, Ortho Surgery send all of the ankle stuff to Podiatry. There are several VAs where Podiatry is doing TARs. When interviewing for VA position, you can ask about their surgical privileges scope, surgical volume, and politics with Ortho to get an idea if you will get the diversity of cases for boards.

 

[Shiyuan]

Looking back three years ago, the new VA legislation was signed on June 6 2018. Out of curiosity, when did the bump in pay raise start? January 1 of 2019?

 

[Utvolsdpm]

Looking back three years ago, the new VA legislation was signed on June 6 2018. Out of curiosity, when did the bump in pay raise start? January 1 of 2019?

It’s been so long it’s hard to remember exactly but I think near the end of November 2018? And that is likely variable depending on facility

 

[heybrother]

Terrible question - what does a 1/2 time VA job pay? Anyone ever heard any numbers?

I see a 0.4FTE job in Buffalo that lists 130-150 but I feel like there must be something wrong/a catch. Like it will be multiplied by 0.4 or something.

 

[deleted1097757]

I was offered an interview at buffalo recently for a part time 0.4 FTE (2 days a week only) general podiatry position with little to no surgical availability. In the email it said the salary was 52-60k for two days depending upon experience.

A friend of mine at a different VA was offered 98k for 3 days a week part time.

Terrible question - what does a 1/2 time VA job pay? Anyone ever heard any numbers?

I see a 0.4FTE job in Buffalo that lists 130-150 but I feel like there must be something wrong/a catch. Like it will be multiplied by 0.4 or something.

 

[Shiyuan]

I was offered an interview at buffalo recently for a part time 0.4 FTE (2 days a week only) general podiatry position with little to no surgical availability. In the email it said the salary was 52-60k for two days depending upon experience.

A friend of mine at a different VA was offered 98k for 3 days a week part time.

How are the other benefits? Pension eligible still?

 

[Utvolsdpm]

The good thing is you work part time and get full time benefits