WildZenge Presents: Horizon Zero DaWWn

[Zenge142]

I'm on Alley too

Fixed

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[SportPonies]

I'm village leaning cray rn and Sporty's response to me about her wanting to vote shorty off of feels was.....meh

Mel do you ever read anything

I never said I wanted to vote shorty. I just said that one post felt weird and I want to reevaluate her tone in past games.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'm village leaning cray rn and Sporty's response to me about her wanting to vote shorty off of feels was.....meh

Wait, so you feel good about shorty now then?

 

[cubsrule4e]

VOTE CLOSED, RESULTS PENDING. AND UH, CAN I JUST SAY...WOW

no, you cannot just say wow! You have to tell us what insanity we have caused.

 

[WildZoo]

hey idk if you guys noticed but I think maybe april should be on alley

 

[Aprilthearab]

Spoiler

 

[WildZoo]

no, you cannot just say wow! You have to tell us what insanity we have caused.

 

[Melchizedek]

Wait, so you feel good about shorty now then?

No. Its in the realm of possibility of early distancing. Super easy to shade someone but say you're giving them a pass. I'm interested in seeing Sporty's follow up questioning/push/reads

 

[SportPonies]

Mel ignoring my question about whether he reads anything is just indicating that he didn’t read my question.

 

[WildZoo]

DAY ONE

Aloy intensified her training as The Proving approached, ignoring the sneers of the young Nora who considered her unworthy of the contest. She knew deep down they were threatened by her. Why else would they care if an outcast competed against them? And they were right to feel threatened. She had learned the lessons of a life spent in the wilderness, was more prepared than anyone who had grown up under the protection of the tribe could ever be.

And to prove it, she would take down a formidable beast on her own, see what Bast and his friends had to say then.

It was time to hunt a Sawtooth.

~~~

The crowd's displeasure was palpable. They wanted nothing to do with the Carja priest who stood before them, talking of peace and uttering empty platitudes about putting the past behind them. Easy for him to say - his family had not been slaughtered in the Red Raids. Projectiles started flying in this priest's direction, fruit at first, and then someone picked up a rock. A member of the Sun-King's Vanguard stepped forward to attempt to calm the crowd. They would have none of it. In their eyes, he was just as bad as the Carja.

Surely they didn't mean to kill him, they just wanted him and his priest friend to leave the Sacred Land. But in their frenzy, blinded by grief and anger, they went too far. When the dust settled, the Oseram tribesman laid unmoving in the dirt.

Dead is @alleycat03, who was Erend, a villager who could choose a player to PM with each cycle
​

If the game starts on 9/27, do we think I can die or the game ended before 10/6?​

Careful what you wish for...

~~~

A red light glowed in the darkness. A signal, beckoning to anyone who might come.

13 players remain

1. @Animal Midwife
B. @Melchizedek
2. @Crayola227
3. @TelemarketingEnigma
5. @BobLoblaw78
6. @genny
7. @Ms Procrastinator
11. @Aprilthearab
12. @vetschoolsletmeinplease
14. @SportPonies
15. @cubsrule4e
17. @supershorty
18. @Dinashadow

Dead:
4. @alleycat03 - Erend - Village PMer

Tots:
1. @samac
2. @Lawpy
3. @holdthemayo
4. @SARdoghandler
5. @kaydubs
6. @WonderingStudent
7. @Barkley13
8. @Viscernable
9. @FrostySparrow

It is now Night 1. Night closes at 10am EST.

Remember: You can open a PM with ONE player who was on the same vote as you today. Please include the mods in your PM. ​

 

[Crayola227]

Those on the sporty vote could do a round robin and I think if we did we could all PM one another.

I was thinking of opening with Mel, Mel could open with Ms P, Ms P could open with me

 

[Crayola227]

I can't believe we misyeeted Alley d1 again

 

[Aprilthearab]

Those on the sporty vote could do a round robin and I think if we did we could all PM one another.

I was thinking of opening with Mel, Mel could open with Ms P, Ms P could open with me

Don't you usually give trouble to people who openly advertise their PM plans?

 

[Animal Midwife]

I can't believe we misyeeted Alley d1 again

"we"

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Those on the sporty vote could do a round robin and I think if we did we could all PM one another.

I was thinking of opening with Mel, Mel could open with Ms P, Ms P could open with me

this is the exact kind of thing you usually yell at samac for

 

[Crayola227]

Don't you usually give trouble to people who openly advertise their PM plans?

Yes but in this case the PM chains are fairly obvious and also transitory. I considered if wolves would try to plan their NK to break it up, but D1 there isn't a lot to go on anyway and how much can we really accomplish this N1? And if they do want to use it to kill any villagers between myself, Mel, or MsP, let them. Might make NKA easier and too obvious.

 

[Aprilthearab]

End-day choking!April should have listened to mid-day rational!April

 

[Animal Midwife]

Yes but in this case the PM chains are fairly obvious and also transitory. I considered if wolves would try to plan their NK to break it up, but D1 there isn't a lot to go on anyway and how much can we really accomplish this N1? And if they do want to use it to kill any villagers between myself, Mel, or MsP, let them. Might make NKA easier and too obvious.

Why can't we just talk on thread like normal so information can be utilized instead of tinfoils?

 

[Crayola227]

"we"

Yes, we. I feel bad I wasn't around for close and it takes a village and all that. Without knowing more about the circumstances (I'm behind a few posts) I'm going to just blame village and include myself in that until I know more.

 

[supershorty]

I can't believe we misyeeted Alley d1 again

Second time she's been misyeeted D1 when she couldn't be there for yeet close, too.

 

[Crayola227]

Why can't we just talk on thread like normal so information can be utilized instead of tinfoils?

I don't know. When I realized we could do a round robin for some reason it appealed to me as an idea.

But Cessna just came home and we're going to have mommy and daddy time now. Have to catch you later kiddos.

 

[WildZoo]

Everyone voted and made post minimum today

 

[supershorty]

Spoiler: D1 vote tracker

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Spoiler: D1 vote tracker

View attachment 343930
View attachment 343931
View attachment 343933

wow you fancy

though lol at my justification column just saying "for now", i did say other things too!

 

[supershorty]

wow you fancy

though lol at my justification column just saying "for now", i did say other things too!

I copy/paste the justification from whatever post the actual vote is in.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Are you caught up @BobLoblaw78?

 

[Aprilthearab]

@Dinashadow @vetschoolsletmeinplease anyone awake to PM?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

And also - Bob was the one saying that yeeting Mel leads to a village loss, which is what I was inquiring about, because I didn't understand that logic jump.

I think this got answered. But Mel had posted this in another game.

Yeet Bob

@BobLoblaw78, can we hear some thoughts on people other than April's Mel vote?

I will try to read through and reorganize my thoughts. Kinda rushed through the last 6 pages. Life got busy

Well then I've been being robbed for 3 years!

Btw, did @alleycat03 every actually say why she's still voting me? Or is she just going to leave that vote since she hasnt come up with anything better? I was speed reading just getting back from volleyball.

Just got back from volleyball too. Except mine was kids and tons of driving.

This is the kind of post that makes me lean cray village.

Okay but this is also bob we're talking about. Watching him wolf in madagascar as a mod was a good time

That game was fun and crazy!

 

[Melchizedek]

Those on the sporty vote could do a round robin and I think if we did we could all PM one another.

I was thinking of opening with Mel, Mel could open with Ms P, Ms P could open with me

I would usually at least PM you some fun gif, but I'm exhausted. I don't have any specific questions for either of you rn that need to be discussed away from the thread.

What I do want to know is how you (Cray) feel about shorty and Dina

Unless you REALLY need to talk strategy in PM, feel free to ask me any questions on thread because my reads on either of you are too tenuous for me to trust talking in private lol

Spoiler: Here's a fun gif anyway

Mel do you ever read anything

I never said I wanted to vote shorty. I just said that one post felt weird and I want to reevaluate her tone in past games.

I was trying to read fast and get a vote in, so when you said "it just won't happen until thursday" I thought "it" meant voting. I see the right antecedent now.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Are you caught up @BobLoblaw78?

No. Not really. Rushed through pages and didn’t thoughtfully read.

My thoughts:

D1 so never much to go on. Just more action to get things flowing.

I didn’t like my April vote. It was more to just get started. And get on board. After quick read, I didn’t love her reactions and some of the others. Makes me wonder about wolf jumping on convenient misyeet. I def have to reread.

Mel makes good sense. Stuck his neck out for lazy vote. Buys village cred. But could’ve been wolf knowing how I’d flip and/or pocket.

Same could be said for Cubs. Seemed like he was defending a sinking ship which catches sus. I didn’t fully read his bc at that point I was wanting to get to the end and find out if I’d been voted off (I have trouble skipping to the end of anything). So maybe he had sus posts. But none I saw.

Cray seemed pretty good village game. Not seeming uptight.

You I kinda group with Mel type. Good to keep around regardless. But that didn’t work out well for me last game! You always ping me but I’d say par for normal (I refuse to tell you what I think your biggest wolf giveaway was to me last game— in retrospect).

Shorty is putting in too much work with her tracker if she is a wolf. I’d say that buys village cred. But I played that angle as a wolf.

I think Dina seems to be making sense.

TLDR- I don’t think I made much progress on wolf leans. But felt good about some village leans

 

[alleycat03]

Dead is @alleycat03, who was Erend, a villager who could choose a player to PM with each cycle


Careful what you wish for...
​

******
I didn’t wish to die on D1 though! There’s still another week before I needed to die. 🙃

Oh well, good luck village!
******

 

[Melchizedek]

Oh yes

I was planning on moving off of Mel if he showed up and sounded alright, now he's apparently here but I'm waiting for some contributions

this was a very......pointed post to make. Why do you feel the need to pre-empt moving off of an RVS vote? Do you have specific questions for me?

 

[Aprilthearab]

this was a very......pointed post to make. Why do you feel the need to pre-empt moving off of an RVS vote? Do you have specific questions for me?

Not sure what an RVS vote is. My vote on you was never serious, just to start conversation (and it certainly did) with anyone who took interest, and I was hoping at some point preferably earlier in the cycle, I would have gotten a better feel for you and everyone else so that I could know where to put a serious vote. Didn't matter if that meant keeping it on you or putting it on someone else, I just didn't want my vote to be sitting somewhere for absolutely no reason by EOD.

 

[Melchizedek]

Not sure what an RVS vote is. My vote on you was never serious, just to start conversation (and it certainly did) with anyone who took interest, and I was hoping at some point preferably earlier in the cycle, I would have gotten a better feel for you and everyone else so that I could know where to put a serious vote. Didn't matter if that meant keeping it on you or putting it on someone else, I just didn't want my vote to be sitting somewhere for absolutely no reason by EOD.

RVS - Random Voting Stage
What I'm getting at is that an RVS vote is pretty much expected to be moved by EOD, so its weird to me you went out of your way to say you were going to move it. But whats pinging me more is that you mentioned seeing that I was contributing, but you made no effort to engage with me or evaluate my contributions before/after vote close.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

i think i feel worst about maybe genny?? but i always feel bad about genny and its for no good reason other than feels and it looks like she's coasting in just over the post minimum

that's an interesting person to feel the worst about imo, were there any posts in particular that gave you bad vibes?

That's what I was feeling. We could both vote there?

I don't LOVE how this coordination sounds but that's my only wolf point for april rn

also feels a little sus that mel held his vote for this long

this is fair, contributes to waffling

Those on the sporty vote could do a round robin and I think if we did we could all PM one another.

I was thinking of opening with Mel, Mel could open with Ms P, Ms P could open with me

i agree that i didn't like this from cray. If there's a wolf among the three of you, i don't think it's great to include them in an information chain

 

[Aprilthearab]

RVS - Random Voting Stage
What I'm getting at is that an RVS vote is pretty much expected to be moved by EOD, so its weird to me you went out of your way to say you were going to move it. But whats pinging me more is that you mentioned seeing that I was contributing, but you made no effort to engage with me or evaluate my contributions before/after vote close.

We were on the subject of waffles and I mentioned that I would unfortunately very likely end up as a waffle. I didn't just randomly blurt it out. And I saw that you had just arrived on thread and were catching up, and I didn't have anything specific to ask of you, so I figured I'd let you catch up and observe your posts and interactions instead of interrupting.

 

[Crayola227]

I don't know. Maybe now. Just to make this post. WIFOM.

We have seen retaliatory wolf voting I'm fairly certain. But you do have me doubting if you actually would here.

I threw Sporty the bone of doubt here, and still got an eyeroll.

She feels too hostile for the amount of sus I've thrown her way, and overall, actually.

One of my favorite tests for wolves, is I throw someone the bone of doubting their wolfiness. Actual villagers tend to be more interested in consensus and winning people over (I'll explain further below the wolf attitude), and if someone sussing them seems open to reconsidering, most villagers will take the opening to build peace.

Wolves on the other hand, everything is an act, and I've found that it since the stands they take are fake, and they know some villagers will just have to be misyeets, often won't bother and once opposed to you will never take or extend an olive branch. That isn't to say wolves also don't appreciate openings to "win" people over, but while villagers might have an honest feel that anyone truly village they might make peace with, the nature of wolfing is knowing that you will have to cross a villager eventually. More skilled wolves don't fall into the easy trap of hedging too much and trying to be everyone's friend and being caught that way, and will often commit to a few enemies.

I have found this rigidity telling in the past with many w/v interactions I've had with wolves.

Also, the last time Sporty wolfed she took this semi condescending tone with me, and I can't say I remember her doing it other games.

I may be off here, but my feel so far.

 

[Crayola227]

What exactly do you want me to base reads on, with 3 pages of content, absent something like a rojo? If I'd been targeting low posters, I would have wolf read the 3 people at the bottom who basically hadn't posted at all.

Try harder, Mel.

This post, with referring to something as rare and dramatic and generally not totally needed for hunting like a rojo, feels a bit fabricated.

 

[Crayola227]

Frankly, I have never seen it memorably enough so you would have to legit go and get stats like “happened x number of times in this game” for every single game in the last 2 years. I’m not convinced it would be greater than 10-20% of the games we play

That would also incidentally be the same percentage of wolves we generally have in any game any day. Wolves doing something even 10-20% of games only would still be worth watching for. Trying to think of other tells that common.

 

[Crayola227]

This conversation is irrelevant at this point unless you’re ready to go comb literal hundreds of games so I’m going to disengage now lol

but yes. I would genuinely change my opinion if I was proven wrong. My opinion stands because it is, in my mind, true.

Maybe I'm not correct in thinking about how often wolves will cross-vote me, but I have found that I'm a popular wolf vote for sure.

Just this year off the top of my head, the genny/AM wolf win, the Paws scum win game, and Pippy at least one scum out if not more, this year. Also Stagg in one game. You can wave it away as some kind of bias, sure, wolves vote lots of villagers of course it'll be me sometimes.

But my point is more that I can often sniff out a crap vote for me.

 

[Crayola227]

Alley-salt yeeted cubs. She has been posting okay so far.

April- Wondered why AM threw out a random yeet on enigma. Think this started the whole AM vote scrutiny thing. She has been posting okay so far.

Sporty- Was part of the AM/ MsP echo. Seems okay so far compared to the other games I’ve played with her (posting more), but Idk kinda getting a vibe. She’s getting feels from Shorty because shorty asked her a question about something she brought up on thread.

AM- says she doesn’t have to worry about pressuring me this game in response because low posters are mechanically killed. Seems okay so far. I’m getting more annoyed than wolfy vibes here

Shorty- Seems to be playing okay so far. Asking okay questions. Was one of the people that jumped on the why isn’t AM yeeting MsP like usual train.

Dina-Yeets april because she isn’t all over her like her village self would be. Noted she could also just be quiet. Unyeeted her because her contributions were starting to make her feel better about her. Agree. Her contributions were okay so far.

Bob- his defense of mel seems a bit weird since the game just started, not taking it too seriously. Seems like a joke vote. He’s meh so far. I have no idea what his wolf meta is like.

Enigma- The AM/MsP convo list is okay. She’s in a weird tunnel. Seems too tunnelly to not be village.

Wish this had more wolf reads in it. Just because I personally find that more useful. I could use the help lol.

 

[Crayola227]

who am I tunneling on?

I'm voting genny atm, the long convo about you and AM was speculation on possibilities but not something i was wolf reading anyone over yet...

Why are we not seeing more AM sus from you? Especially when AM does something that feels a bit different than usual?

Now, I've learned, that AM can break pattern for the express purpose of wolf hunting, so I don't automatically see such a deviation as wolfy, so I'm not asking you this because I sus AM for it and for that reason find it odd you're not sussing her.

 

[Crayola227]

Smh making me self prez onto alley after I just said in my mod PM that if she’s a wolf, she’s playing a classy wolf game….

#####
Unyeet Cray
Yeet alley
########

This reluctance to self prez onto a supposed wolf read... feels wrong. Especially if maybe you're expressing reluctance knowing how the flip turns out.

I agree, if you are wolf you'd have rather sat on my vote instead.

 

[Crayola227]

Why can't we just talk on thread like normal so information can be utilized instead of tinfoils?

I don't know. I usually hate PMs and you'd think I'd be personally burned off of PMing with Mel, but everyone else acts like PMing with Mel is like the greatest experience ever. I was at least willing to open one. I won't lie I want to know what that fuss is about.

Come to think of it, I usually will at least open a PM even if I generally don't use it much. Just feels like if we have a tool at our disposal, we should use it. But very, very, carefully.

I made an effort that one game to try to use PMs to gamesolve, and it went very very badly.

PMs are a great and easy way to be horribly burned. I have caught wolves using it, and I have as a wolf pocketed. Also seen lots of lost games. It can go either way. Despite that, I try to at least be available and careful.

For all I know, in this game opening a PM could be mod rewarded with an item, since mods frequently will build in rewards for making use of mechanics they want to see used in a game.

So, like, I think it's fine when people open PMs. If it's a permanent PM, and not a PM where all wolves have to do is look at the yeet count to guess and it lasts more than a night, it might be OK to discuss on thread. I wouldn't out a permanent PM partner because I would expect wolves to use that knowledge more for infiltration and NKs.

I'll spare you more of my thoughts on PMs. I won't say I'm totally against them but I do think lots of caution is needed. That's usually my issue, not that people open them with each other.

 

[Crayola227]

I would usually at least PM you some fun gif, but I'm exhausted. I don't have any specific questions for either of you rn that need to be discussed away from the thread.

What I do want to know is how you (Cray) feel about shorty and Dina

Unless you REALLY need to talk strategy in PM, feel free to ask me any questions on thread because my reads on either of you are too tenuous for me to trust talking in private lol

Spoiler: Here's a fun gif anyway

I was trying to read fast and get a vote in, so when you said "it just won't happen until thursday" I thought "it" meant voting. I see the right antecedent now.

I don't feel great about Shorty and Dina. They're not shouting village at me rn like usual. Keep in mind usually when they are "shouting village" at me I still sus them, but with benefit of hindsight in games do see the village in them when they flip.

I won't pretend to be able to correctly read them as village in past games. But the fact they feel less village to me than I can recall in past games, worries me.

 

[Crayola227]

No. Not really. Rushed through pages and didn’t thoughtfully read.

My thoughts:

D1 so never much to go on. Just more action to get things flowing.

I didn’t like my April vote. It was more to just get started. And get on board. After quick read, I didn’t love her reactions and some of the others. Makes me wonder about wolf jumping on convenient misyeet. I def have to reread.

Mel makes good sense. Stuck his neck out for lazy vote. Buys village cred. But could’ve been wolf knowing how I’d flip and/or pocket.

Same could be said for Cubs. Seemed like he was defending a sinking ship which catches sus. I didn’t fully read his bc at that point I was wanting to get to the end and find out if I’d been voted off (I have trouble skipping to the end of anything). So maybe he had sus posts. But none I saw.

Cray seemed pretty good village game. Not seeming uptight.

You I kinda group with Mel type. Good to keep around regardless. But that didn’t work out well for me last game! You always ping me but I’d say par for normal (I refuse to tell you what I think your biggest wolf giveaway was to me last game— in retrospect).

Shorty is putting in too much work with her tracker if she is a wolf. I’d say that buys village cred. But I played that angle as a wolf.

I think Dina seems to be making sense.

TLDR- I don’t think I made much progress on wolf leans. But felt good about some village leans

This is pretty good from Bob. I think he struggles with this more as a wolf.

 

[Crayola227]

that's an interesting person to feel the worst about imo, were there any posts in particular that gave you bad vibes?

I don't LOVE how this coordination sounds but that's my only wolf point for april rn

this is fair, contributes to waffling

i agree that i didn't like this from cray. If there's a wolf among the three of you, i don't think it's great to include them in an information chain

What I didn't say, is that I kinda wondered if Mel or MsP would come off different in PM than by thread. That can be a good wolf tell. Saying it now as it's late and the PMing not likely to happen now.

I thought it was fine as long as things didn't get too chatty about PRs by PM. Which D1 is not likely to happen, as beyond revealing if one has a PR, there are no night results to share, or accumulated gossip about other people's PRs. In general MsP is quiet and tight-lipped. Mel knows as a villager how to not hurt village with PMs. He could hurt village as a wolf, but I trust myself and MsP this early in a game not to reveal too much.

This was my main interest in trying to engage, was to see how they vibed. MsP if willing to give content is generally worth engaging if only to get a better read on her. She is often basically a policy yeet to the point that if she's a villager and it's possible to get data points on that in that direction, that's worth doing.

If Mel is village, I wouldn't mind also facilitating him getting whatever he vibe he might have had on MsP as well, and to compare notes with him on our PMs with her, if that happened. Or to see if maybe one or the other (MsP or Mel) tried to make the other look bad, that can happen and be useful. And since I would have PM'd both of them, I could assess their claims about what PM tone they had with each other.

If Mel is wolf, as I said, I'm not as worried about a village MsP with wolf Mel as I might be some more loquacious players.

Probably my biggest worry would have been myself PMing with a wolf Mel. But I like to think I learned my lesson last game I PM'd with him.

Anyway, the point is that I did think about it a little bit. With PMs I try to think of harms. I mostly try to just use them to get a tone, see if it seems like someone is trying to manipulate me. I think it's one of better or safer uses. Although I imploded that one game with mistrust.

 

[supershorty]

This post, with referring to something as rare and dramatic and generally not totally needed for hunting like a rojo, feels a bit fabricated.

How do you feel about Mel’s announced PbPa catch up being actually just tunneling me for being, in his opinion, wordy in my reads post?

I’m not gonna pretend I wasn’t annoyed and snapped at him in that post. It’s incredibly frustrating to be doing my best to game solve and have my play style criticized by someone who barely showed up.

 

[Crayola227]

How do you feel about Mel’s announced PbPa catch up being actually just tunneling me for being, in his opinion, wordy in my reads post?

I’m not gonna pretend I wasn’t annoyed and snapped at him in that post. It’s incredibly frustrating to be doing my best to game solve and have my play style criticized by someone who barely showed up.

I have to say I also see issues with Mel's play today, as far as sitting on his vote and the last min catch up, and some of the sus he had, while it seemed legit to me and I agreed in places, well wolf Mel makes good cases on people too. Also realizing some of the times he's been nicest to me, he was wolf.

But, Mel also makes some good points.

I also think that Mel is a player more like DocE, and more likely to take issue with some of what might be seen as a looser style of play compared to past standards (more harsh and pushes people a certain way).

In no way was I criticizing you for snapping at him. I personally like a more confrontational style of play.

I don't immediately fault the last min catch up because I felt that he had substance to his content, and sometimes last min catch ups happen cuz IRL and are NAI. Whether it's wolf or village content remains to be seen. But I appreciate solid content.

 

[supershorty]

I also think that Mel is a player more like DocE, and more likely to take issue with some of what might be seen as a looser style of play compared to past standards (more harsh and pushes people a certain way).

Interesting that you make this comparison - I mentioned to Zenge yesterday I was getting some flashbacks to England when DocE did the same thing. For similar reasons, IIRC.