WildZenge Presents: Horizon Zero DaWWn

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

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That's kind of oversimplifying what was pinging me. I specifically said it was the lack of content within the posts, not the number of them, and my comment about alley wasn't regarding post number either.

I'm being a bad teacher and skimming the thread
alley is pinging me because shes overexplaining her oversimplifications imo
something i wanna look more into later

 

[cubsrule4e]

But yeah, @cubsrule4e, I still want to know if you're expressing agreement with Bob's Mel take.

I tend to look at mel more like myself, someone to keep around and drum up sketch on throughout the first few cycles for a later misyeet. But also agree in the sense that if villagers had him up on the board and the opportunity was there, theyd definitely take it to get a solid villager out of the game. So I guess I agree and disagree to some extent.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I tend to look at mel more like myself, someone to keep around and drum up sketch on throughout the first few cycles for a later misyeet. But also agree in the sense that if villagers had him up on the board and the opportunity was there, theyd definitely take it to get a solid villager out of the game. So I guess I agree and disagree to some extent.

April was, and still is, the only voter there. How does that play into your thoughts?

 

[cubsrule4e]

Everyone knows im basically worthless the first 2 cycles, so I dont have a lot to go on as usual for a D1 vote, but Genny feels in general the most off to me, having reread some of yesterdays interactions. I jokingly make the post about finding loopholes, but that seems to have been the only actual serious/non-fluff post she made all day. In another words, I guess joking:serious post ratio is off, as is my read of her probably, but no one else is sticking out at me. I also have nothing to go off of today since she's been busy, but theres still 3 hours left to change.

vote genny

 

[cubsrule4e]

April was, and still is, the only voter there. How does that play into your thoughts?

I dont think that tells me much one way or the other. If thats a wolfy read for her D1 then thats what she's seeing. From a "is this a wolf jumping on mel earlier to try to get rid of him," no, thats not what Im seeing. But that doesnt make her not a wolf, I just dont see that as the current strategy.

 

[Crayola227]

I don't expect you to know all of these because you've played minimally but most the people you listed have a propensity to be yeeted easily regardless of affiliation. I am surprised about what you said regarding genny though given she literally was yeeted D1 in your first wolf game.

Outside of this, almost all of those exact people are also on the board right now. You didn't question any of those votes despite saying it would generate more reasonable "but for why" content. Why is that?

Genny getting yeeted d1 that game was a total outlier since she was basically literally campaigning to get yeeted. Under normal circumstances where Genny is not going out of her way to get yeeted on purpose, she generally isn't a D1 yeet so the point stands.

 

[Zenge142]

Clink Clank Clunk, Something’s On The Move D1 Tally

Enigma (1) - AM
cubs (2) - alley, Dina
MsP (1) - genny
sporty (1) - cray
pleasy () -
mel (1) - April
april (1) - Bob
Genny (1) - Cubs

8/14 votes
Leading: @cubsrule4e
Missing: Several
Deadline: 10pm EST on 9/28 (~2.5 hours)

 

[Dinashadow]

@alleycat03 you salt yeeted cubs, what are your thoughts today?

 

[Crayola227]

I did a more thorough review just now so here are some miscellaneous other thoughts:

Cray already feels different from last game in that she feels more like prior games - could just be a return to regular form, or could be an intentional effort to stick closer to her meta. I'd be interested to see SP's response to her pressure but SP seems to be mostly AWOL

Bob is confusing and amusing me as usual, i can't quite follow the vote logic but when do i ever follow Bob (and I still don't know what wolf bob looks like)

Pleasey's defensive of me feels village if she paid attention to MHA since it was discussed then (or maybe olympics?), but if not i'm interested in why she's defending me as misyeet bait (I looked back at my record during MHA, and I've had to fight for my life a few times but i've only actually been misyeeted once, and correctly yeeted once. Otherwise i'm either NK'ed N1 or make it to endgame lol).

Lol what last game might have proved is that even someone as typically uptight as I am about WW and paranoid, can end up in a totally different headspace after an amazing week long vacation in Hawaii. It really did chill me out

And I'll point out that regardless of how *actually* easy it is to misyeet someone, some players it is just easier to stir up a bunch of sus on.

Genny isn't an easy misyeet maybe in reality, but it's easier to get pitchforks waving around her than it is, say, AM or WZ.

I don't know how actually easy it is to misyeet TME, so I won't speak to that. My perception is that it is easy for a cloud of dust to gather around her (sus).

 

[Dinashadow]

also could people put their votes down? 2.5 hours to go missing 6/14 votes is just begging for a steaming pile of waffles

 

[Animal Midwife]

Genny getting yeeted d1 that game was a total outlier since she was basically literally campaigning to get yeeted. Under normal circumstances where Genny is not going out of her way to get yeeted on purpose, she generally isn't a D1 yeet so the point stands.

I'm pretty sure she still would have rather a villager died than her so I wouldn't go that far. She was already on the board and did what she needed to to save her partners. Regardless, that doesn't negate the multiple times she's been been yeeted or heavily suspected prior to, during, and after that game, including D1.

 

[Crayola227]

whats MHA

so i don't got anything super solid (the ones I said last night remain the same, these are just additions, anyone mention I dont have much of an opinion on yet)
pending TME's response to your last post about the correlation of MsP to suspicions of you and shorty, I feel worse about TME bc I am not following the logic there at all.
I feel good about April so far bc her reactions to things feel like what I've seen of village April
bob feels weird to me, not enough to give a wolf lean, but I want to pay closer attention to logic flows and suspicions

Not sure why, this feels kinda scummy

Maybe because of her reads on TME and April and the overall hedginess it seems

 

[Crayola227]

I think this is a little overly simplified. If MsP is a wolf, that doesn’t immediately implicate AM as her packmate. This is because that would be pretty basic wolf play on AM’s part to point out why she’s not pushing MsP so far this game. It immediately makes her an “obvious” packmate if MsP were to flip wolf, and I really don’t think AM would make a move like that. That would be something a noob wolf would do (like when I was a wolf in breadsticks (with cray and Sunny) and I was basically like “why should we vote for cray though” when everyone else thought she was a wolf)

Agreed. If they were packmates, easy for AM to put a D1 vote on her and then later back off and do it all and look less sus for it.

TWTBAW. Too wolfy to be a wolf. Not quite but almost.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Not sure why, this feels kinda scummy

Maybe because of her reads on TME and April and the overall hedginess it seems

Schools has been striking me very village. When she's wolfing, she tends to be much more worried about how people are reading her which turns into low posting that sounds a bit cautious, and in this game she's been pretty relaxed and sassy. Hedginess is part of her village meta

 

[Crayola227]

weren't you misyeeted last game I played with you? RvB?

Lol that wasn't a misyeet. She was a wolf that game.

 

[Crayola227]

NAI for shorty to sound very involved and stir up conversation

For some reason, some posts from Shorty and April feel very "this could be village" but then also I see the ping points being made on them.

 

[Crayola227]

Is the bolded not what I just said?

Whose fault is it if someone becomes modkilled? Is it preventable in any way?

Regardless of fault, he's maybe not wrong that villagers might be more likely to drop the ball.

Last game I was village and I fell asleep and didn't submit an action. Not the first time I've done that, either. Pretty sure I've NEVER done that as a wolf.

Wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only person for whom this sort of thing is true.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Regardless of fault, he's maybe not wrong that villagers might be more likely to drop the ball.

That's dependent on meta which is almost always NAI given the nature of this particular website. So his statement was equally as NAI to object to.

Last game I was village and I fell asleep and didn't submit an action. Not the first time I've done that, either. Pretty sure I've NEVER done that as a wolf.

Wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the only person for whom this sort of thing is true.

This is only useful if you have exact names for who would and who wouldn't do this, no exceptions. Otherwise, it's WIFOM at best. Regardless, that's not super relevant to the situation at hand because this is about posting less than 10 posts per day twice, not submitting night actions.

 

[Crayola227]

um wolves can be busy just like villagers. Remember that numbers of posts is often NAI

Post counts might not be NAI overall, but actually getting modkilled? It would be interesting to track our history of modkills and see if it conforms to the average SDN break down of wolf percentages.

Speaking of which, we started with 14 players? 25% would be 3.5. A total maximum of 4 non-villagers, and you could fairly call it an overestimate. If we assume 1 NK per night, which may or may not be valid, we could have how many misyeets to lylo. Assume 10 villagers at the least. 6 villager deaths to parity, means worst case we have 3 day votes to catch a wolf.

Sorry. I like to do this math but frequently don't do it until way down the line.

 

[supershorty]

also could people put their votes down? 2.5 hours to go missing 6/14 votes is just begging for a steaming pile of waffles

I just got home, going to get caught up and vote now. Sorry. Been a crazy day.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Post counts might not be NAI overall, but actually getting modkilled? It would be interesting to track our history of modkills and see if it conforms to the average SDN break down of wolf percentages.

Speaking of which, we started with 14 players? 25% would be 3.5. A total maximum of 4 non-villagers, and you could fairly call it an overestimate. If we assume 1 NK per night, which may or may not be valid, we could have how many misyeets to lylo. Assume 10 villagers at the least. 6 villager deaths to parity, means worst case we have 3 day votes to catch a wolf.

Sorry. I like to do this math but frequently don't do it until way down the line.

3.5 is the absolute maximum for balance. Round it down to 3. Remember the thing I said last game in dead about how overestimating leads village astray.

 

[genny]

Everyone knows im basically worthless the first 2 cycles, so I dont have a lot to go on as usual for a D1 vote, but Genny feels in general the most off to me, having reread some of yesterdays interactions. I jokingly make the post about finding loopholes, but that seems to have been the only actual serious/non-fluff post she made all day. In another words, I guess joking:serious post ratio is off, as is my read of her probably, but no one else is sticking out at me. I also have nothing to go off of today since she's been busy, but theres still 3 hours left to change.

vote genny

omg i changed my avatar for you and this is the thanks i get?

 

[Crayola227]

There's a lot of posts analyzing a MsP/ AM interaction when I hadn't even posted yet. Seems a bit like jumping the gun don't you guys think think? Again. AM not pressure voting me the first game I've played in a while isn't that abnormal. She usually get's frustrated enough to pressure vote after a few games.

Not sure this is totally true. Will watch for a MsP/AM pack.

 

[genny]

i think April and AM sound village so far. everyone else is still in the eel pool.

 

[genny]

just begging for a steaming pile of waffles

i haven't had dinner yet, and my lunch was 3/4 of a diet coke. now i want waffles.

 

[Crayola227]

I read it as "if that's what the group decides to do then so be it," not that "if the group decides to do that then I'll jump in"

Yeah I mean sometimes AM basically says she's not going to like, berate the group not to do a thing, but it doesn't mean she'll jump in. Actually, sometimes she might. But it's kind of a separate judgment from her.

 

[Crayola227]

Why?

The is it because you're a wolf comment and the lol. Just felt weird. I know many of us makes jokes like this, I don't always read it this way. Something about Dina has pinged me a couple times not sure why

 

[Crayola227]

Agree on the alley point about being very wordy as a wolf.

I read through the whole Bob thing and I find it kind of funny, its like people are trying to make something out of nothing there, but when you stop and realize its bob, it makes total sense, and doesnt make me think anything one way or the other.

I feel like TME always jumps out of the gate with a lot of posts, like she doesnt want to look sketchy by not posting if she's village, and if shes a wolf wants to make sure it looks like she's contributing early on. Not reading that either way.

I feel like Sporty's thus-far absence leans her an early village read.

Wasnt surprised as I kept scrolling down and didnt see my name and the found myself dead at the bottom, as usual.

Why the heck does that make you move Sporty village??

 

[Crayola227]

Agree on the alley point about being very wordy as a wolf.

I read through the whole Bob thing and I find it kind of funny, its like people are trying to make something out of nothing there, but when you stop and realize its bob, it makes total sense, and doesnt make me think anything one way or the other.

I feel like TME always jumps out of the gate with a lot of posts, like she doesnt want to look sketchy by not posting if she's village, and if shes a wolf wants to make sure it looks like she's contributing early on. Not reading that either way.

I feel like Sporty's thus-far absence leans her an early village read.

Wasnt surprised as I kept scrolling down and didnt see my name and the found myself dead at the bottom, as usual.

Why weren't you surprised?

 

[Crayola227]

Bob explained that after the conversation between me and him happened so I really didn't get what he was at, and for a minute he seemed genuinely concerned about me for that reason

I feel like April is more reactive in a retaliatory way when she's wolf and gets sus in her direction, compared to a village April. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

I'd be interested to see SP's response to her pressure but SP seems to be mostly AWOL

are you TRYING to mess up my interaction searches later? What the heck is SP, it's MsP

 

[SportPonies]

Yeah, about Sporty. Not sure why. Sporty's style is often kinda drive by. Just felt pretty intense on the sus on Midwife for such as early post.

There are things called jokes, Cray. I was originally going to post “inb4 AM pressure votes MsP” but then saw she had already voted.

 

[SportPonies]

This feels wolfy. May be the emoji overselling it.

Do you have something against emojis lately

 

[alleycat03]

i haven't had dinner yet, and my lunch was 3/4 of a diet coke. now i want waffles.

Edit: I literally don’t know how or why I quoted this but I hope you had a lovely waffle dinner, genny!

 

[Crayola227]

That's kind of oversimplifying what was pinging me. I specifically said it was the lack of content within the posts, not the number of them, and my comment about alley wasn't regarding post number either.

I'm starting to get a wolfy read on Cubs. And it's not just the standard Cubs paranoia, because my paranoia was at an 11 last game and I still didn't misyeet him at end game and wrongfully suspect him. Not saying that makes me an expert reading him, just saying I don't think I'm especially prone to sus him just based on others sussing him. Feel like I'm coming to this conclusion and it's not just an echo of others' sus (which in general is something I can fall prey to).

Anyway your post here makes a good point on cubs, and his SP logic is weird to me too.

 

[Animal Midwife]

are you TRYING to mess up my interaction searches later? What the heck is SP, it's MsP

She's using the antiquated nickname for Sporty.

 

[Aprilthearab]

The is it because you're a wolf comment and the lol. Just felt weird. I know many of us makes jokes like this, I don't always read it this way. Something about Dina has pinged me a couple times not sure why

Yeah I'm not sure about Dina either, sounds mostly village minus a few inexplicable pings, but she also pinged me a few times in the last game. I think I sometimes second-guess my own village read on her because she's also a great wolf

 

[Crayola227]

also could people put their votes down? 2.5 hours to go missing 6/14 votes is just begging for a steaming pile of waffles

Need to add a steaming pile of poop waffles

 

[SportPonies]

I didn’t like timing of it. Seems late (night of start) to be for funsy.

Plus. If I was wolf, I would want rid of Mel.

PS- Dina’s vote and mine were 1 min apart, ie it wasn’t posted yet. (if that’s why you think it was weird)

If I was a wolf, I would want Mel alive so he can keep sketching it up and get misyeeted

The point about wolves wanting rid of Mel is good. Although they could also NK him if they're that worried. Trying too hard to get him yeeted and he flips village could backfire for them.

….which is something you should know, Cray. Why would wolves want Mel dead when he’s usually a giant distraction and kept til mid-end game when village yeets him for being “unreadable”? He’s like, quite frankly, lowest on my list for getting dedded this early.

It's now become clear to me why AM went for TME and not MsP. Good way to get reactions and see what people would make of it and it's working it looks like.

Hmmm

Bob is being odd, but not moreso than he usually is. Everything I've seen so far seems within his village meta

Also hmmm.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

She's using the antiquated nickname for Sporty.

oh
hm
I think I'm still mad about that messing up my searches later. 🤣

 

[Crayola227]

That's dependent on meta which is almost always NAI given the nature of this particular website. So his statement was equally as NAI to object to.

This is only useful if you have exact names for who would and who wouldn't do this, no exceptions. Otherwise, it's WIFOM at best. Regardless, that's not super relevant to the situation at hand because this is about posting less than 10 posts per day twice, not submitting night actions.

My point is that many people express feeling more pressure to play when they wolf than when they village because of team size and perception of degree of responsibility they have for their side.

Play duties in a nutshell typically boil down to posting and submitting actions if people have them.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

I'm being a bad teacher and skimming the thread
alley is pinging me because shes overexplaining her oversimplifications imo
something i wanna look more into later

I reskimmed the thread and I feel worse about alley
I think she's stating obvious things to boost post numbers (p100 and p248 are examples ) and overexplaining simple things to look like shes contributing (p175, p212) and I think p198 sounds like whiteknighting

yeet alley

edit: this should say p246 not p248

 

[supershorty]

Someone who would stir up a lot of conversation with less chance of misyeet D1
I haven't played in a while, so these may not be accurate after the last few games but I feel like Mel, genny, sport, cubs, and shorty don't get yeeted D1 normally and a vote for any of them would prompt a lot of "but for why"


... I played a pirates game? Lol it's been too long since I played I don't remember the theme of my wolf game
besides that this post by shorty gives a village point, seems like really trying to read into what she has so far. But I'm always weary of a shorty, I like to village read her but I know my friend blinders are really bad lol

This is pretty hedgy, and IME, hedgy pleasy is village!pleasy. But she gets wolf read for it a lot (see: Bioshock).

I did a more thorough review just now so here are some miscellaneous other thoughts:

Cray already feels different from last game in that she feels more like prior games - could just be a return to regular form, or could be an intentional effort to stick closer to her meta. I'd be interested to see SP's response to her pressure but SP seems to be mostly AWOL

Bob is confusing and amusing me as usual, i can't quite follow the vote logic but when do i ever follow Bob (and I still don't know what wolf bob looks like)

Pleasey's defensive of me feels village if she paid attention to MHA since it was discussed then (or maybe olympics?), but if not i'm interested in why she's defending me as misyeet bait (I looked back at my record during MHA, and I've had to fight for my life a few times but i've only actually been misyeeted once, and correctly yeeted once. Otherwise i'm either NK'ed N1 or make it to endgame lol).

This is also pretty hedgy, but that's kind of NAI for TME. I haven't played with her when she wolfed, I totted that game, but I know I've incorrectly wolf leaned her in previous games for hedginess and she turned out to be village. And like I said earlier, I felt a little better about her after she explained her thoughts.

How convenient that you ask me about one of the only things I’m caught up on

Idk exactly why, but this felt a little weird to me.

TME and Alley are in my neutrals. I thought TME was wolfy in MHA and was wrong and nothing she's done makes me feel like she's playing any differently than last game. Alley has pinged me a few times, but also have agreed with some of her posts and historically I've found her sketchy on D1.

What pinged you about alley?

Maybe its just the "um" but it gives this post more the feel that this is in defense of someone, not just a general statement about wolf vs village participation. Then she follows up with "number of posts can be NAI" after shorty has wolf read some people based on participation so far, and stated how alley herself can get very chatty as a wolf.

This post pinged me because the tail end of it reminded me of some of my interactions with cubs in CYO II. It's twisting what I said or did to be something that is close, but not actually what I was saying. The one thing giving me pause is I've never actually played with cubs when he was village - CYO II was the only game I've played with him at all (unless I'm forgetting one, but I don't think so?), and he was scum in that game. So I don't have any prior interactions with him that I can compare the way I do with people I've played with more. I didn't love his logic about Sporty being absent and that giving him a village lean on her, but other people have already touched on that.

 

[Animal Midwife]

My point is that many people express feeling more pressure to play when they wolf than when they village because of team size and perception of degree of responsibility they have for their side.

Play duties in a nutshell typically boil down to posting and submitting actions if people have them.

Understandable, but MsP, as both alignments, has lowposted to the point of being yeeted multiple times so this exercise is fruitless if applied to her.

I can say the same for other players as well because students and doctors are busy. Their schedules don't just allow them to suddenly post more if they're a wolf.

So someone lowposting shouldn't automatically be village read unless there's empirical proof that they only lowpost as a villager or always highpost as a wolf regardless of what's happening irl.

 

[Crayola227]

Do you have something against emojis lately

Yeah, they pretty much always read insincere and trying too hard in WW games for me. Not sure it's actually helped me catch a wolf but I feel the way I feel anyway I guess.

If nothing else I guess I get to see how people defend/pile on.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

I reskimmed the thread and I feel worse about alley
I think she's stating obvious things to boost post numbers (p100 and p248 are examples ) and overexplaining simple things to look like shes contributing (p175, p212) and I think p198 sounds like whiteknighting

yeet alley

I wanted to get these thoughts out and put a vote down since I have realized I am very out of groceries and need to go to the store.
alley's my only wolf lean rn, but I didn't like how antagonistic p208 was from AM (but at the same time I kinda agree, I don't like exactly how MsP is making a grandstand of her post numbers but idk what it makes of either of them)
I like Dina's overall tone and shes getting a bit of a birthday pass. rood to lean someone on their birthday.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I reskimmed the thread and I feel worse about alley
I think she's stating obvious things to boost post numbers (p100 and p248 are examples ) and overexplaining simple things to look like shes contributing (p175, p212) and I think p198 sounds like whiteknighting

yeet alley

One of those posts was about cubs... wasn't it?

 

[supershorty]

Some of April's posts today are making me feel slightly worse about her (the ones where she's defending various people's metas) because I've seen her do that as a wolf, but I think that's just my damn brain being pinged by her D1 as usual.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

One of those posts was about cubs... wasn't it?

I have no clue I just wrote them down as examples of things I didn't love about her posting today,
why is cubs relevant?

 

[Crayola227]

If I was a wolf, I would want Mel alive so he can keep sketching it up and get misyeeted

….which is something you should know, Cray. Why would wolves want Mel dead when he’s usually a giant distraction and kept til mid-end game when village yeets him for being “unreadable”? He’s like, quite frankly, lowest on my list for getting dedded this early.

Hmmm

Also hmmm.

I don't get your comment about it being something I should know.

And in my experience when I wolf, I personally need Mel dead as fast as possible. Personal experience has shown me that leaving him alive OR pushing for his misyeet is very very dangerous for me to do. I'm better off NK him before he raises too much sus on me, and if that makes me look bad just try to play it off, not like I'm the only player that rolls wolf that wants to see him dead early. It ends up being the better cleaner way for me.

The worst is actually when we're both village, because we can't kill each other directly and it has to be by a yeet.

Although I think we've had a few v/v games where the v/v violence was kept to a minimum.

Anyway I agree that wolves (aside from when I specifically am wolfing) often like to keep him as a distraction. I think that's somewhat dangerous but like with anything it can depend on how a villager is reading the specific pack rolled.