WildZoo's WWild ZZoo Part 2 - Game Thread

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Zenge142 said:
Oh true isn’t high on my list of Lawpy Partners

I’d rather see genny or Khepri if we’re talking potential Lawpy Partners. Possibly MK.

I’ll be honest, I don’t care for MK’s play this game. I’m warming to an MK yeet, but her reads list wasn’t terribly so I’m conflicted.

I’m trying to not let Santy’s endless tunnel give me bias, because I think he’s probably village but pushing someone as a wolf (me) because they won’t “push” the counter wagon, and claiming we’re packmates, and then saying he would yeet me tomorrow if true feels green feels Wolfy. It’s something a wolf would do. I’m generally village reading Santy but that’s making it hard
:naughty:
Click to expand...
Standing Emoji. Prob this could be important.

Also, I make Zenge hard. @supershorty watch your husband that is having lewd thoughts with your mother. Send him to sleep
 
W!Khepri killing genny here makes no sense.

And prob Mkg and true could have motivation to keep zenge alive an kill genny instead? Weh
 
Yeah. I think its just True. Lawpy didnt self press either . So unless he flips Villa I'm not seeing myself doing much reassessing.
Sorry if wrong
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Most recent reads list

Addressing Lawpy

I.e., why isn't he towncored

Seems to move mkg more village... I think?

As in, Nate is unlikely to be Lawpy's partner.
So if I'm interpreting correctly, her reads would be something like:
Village: Santa, PSV, Zenge, mkg
Slime: Khepri, Clem, true?
Click to expand...
Consider her votes, which happened after that reads list
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Most recent reads list

Addressing Lawpy

I.e., why isn't he towncored

Seems to move mkg more village... I think?

As in, Nate is unlikely to be Lawpy's partner.
So if I'm interpreting correctly, her reads would be something like:
Village: Santa, PSV, Zenge, mkg
Slime: Khepri, Clem, true?
Click to expand...
I think "what about nanook" is an implied tr but 🤷‍♀️
 
Khepri said:
Request implementing maj.
Click to expand...
Nah
I am always willing to close early under certain conditions - everyone has checked in for the day, there's an overwhelming majority voting for one player with concurrent thread stagnation, and said player agrees that they don't want to drag it out. But not simple majority (this time).
 
genny said:
Please say things before you die
Click to expand...
potentialsheltervet said:
@Zenge142 Who do you think would be least likely to kill you? Or I guess just updated reads since you live.
Click to expand...

Clem J - Hard to see this slot being a wolf, having sat on Lawpy all day and the way Lawpy interacted with this slot, really does seem like misyeet bait.

potentialsheltervet - Likely village. I mean one of my strongest village reads for sure, but if we got down to final 3 I would be paranoid about her, depending who the others in Final 3 were.

mkg323 - I just don’t want to believe Wolf!MK would indulge me like that and be the pivotal vote to move over and sink her own pack mate. High probability of being village.

NateTheLesser - Village. Lawpy made a big push here D1. Was first on the Nate wagon. That seems unpairing.

Santygrass - Village probably. The pushback I got from him on Lawpy and the tunnel on me give me some Pause but I still think this is most likely a village slot. Like PSV if I was in F3 with Santy, I’d be paranoid.

Khepri & Truenamer - They make the most sense I think as the last wolf/Lawpy’s partner. The order I would go would be Khepri then True, personally. But it seems like people want to go the other way and flip True first, which I’m not going to take issue with since we have the numbers.

After that I’d have to reevaluate Santy and PSV as potentially village looking Scum. But I doubt we’ll get there.
 
NateTheLesser said:

Vote Spreadsheet​


For your wagonomics pleasure. I'll probably just keep editing this post to update it (as long as I'm alive), so bookmark it for later.
- All the day's votes are listed in chronological order, and on the right side is a running vote count that shows what the vote count was after each vote.

Day 1 Votes
5d6jtsf.png


Day 2 Votes
2y4FUMq.png


All Votes By Player
z9xUdti.png


EOD Wagons
dcgEwAt.png
Click to expand...
Updated with Genny's flip, gg Genny. (Also it was fun to play with you @Lawpy, sorry about the rand)

That's kind of an odd kill! Definitely was expecting Zenge or Santy. I have to do some work stuff for a bit, but I'll be back.
 
Santygrass said:
W!Khepri killing genny here makes no sense.

And prob Mkg and true could have motivation to keep zenge alive an kill genny instead? Weh
Click to expand...
I hate to break it to you, but if I was paired with Lawpy I wouldnt have broken the tie last night to help yeet him. so its kinda useless to speculate on why I would or wouldn't NK zenge.
 
Zenge142 said:
Clem J - Hard to see this slot being a wolf, having sat on Lawpy all day and the way Lawpy interacted with this slot, really does seem like misyeet bait.

potentialsheltervet - Likely village. I mean one of my strongest village reads for sure, but if we got down to final 3 I would be paranoid about her, depending who the others in Final 3 were.

mkg323 - I just don’t want to believe Wolf!MK would indulge me like that and be the pivotal vote to move over and sink her own pack mate. High probability of being village.

NateTheLesser - Village. Lawpy made a big push here D1. Was first on the Nate wagon. That seems unpairing.

Santygrass - Village probably. The pushback I got from him on Lawpy and the tunnel on me give me some Pause but I still think this is most likely a village slot. Like PSV if I was in F3 with Santy, I’d be paranoid.

Khepri & Truenamer - They make the most sense I think as the last wolf/Lawpy’s partner. The order I would go would be Khepri then True, personally. But it seems like people want to go the other way and flip True first, which I’m not going to take issue with since we have the numbers.

After that I’d have to reevaluate Santy and PSV as potentially village looking Scum. But I doubt we’ll get there.
Click to expand...
I have faith that you're going to find me.

So let's set things out properly. I think it's Khepri or Santy. It could possibly be Nate or Clem, but I don't think either of them fit. Santy fits less well than Khepri.

Yeet Khepri.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
@Santygrass Can you remind me why you towncored Khepri?
Click to expand...
EoD D1. If you go and look at the previous post before the results of N1 you should have my post with somewhat more detailed thoughts . That is always V!Khepri in my head. I have been vibing with their reads, I dont think W!Khepri has a motive to kill genny instead of Zenge too. The way Khepri signal boosted Zenge read of Lawpy too is a good look
 
NateTheLesser said:

Vote Spreadsheet​


For your wagonomics pleasure. I'll probably just keep editing this post to update it (as long as I'm alive), so bookmark it for later.
- All the day's votes are listed in chronological order, and on the right side is a running vote count that shows what the vote count was after each vote.

Day 1 Votes
5d6jtsf.png


Day 2 Votes
2y4FUMq.png


All Votes By Player
z9xUdti.png


EOD Wagons
dcgEwAt.png
Click to expand...

Thank you, Nate, this really is quite helpful.

Santy and Khepri's fixation on me feels extremely strange, given the actual votes, vote movement, and the timing of wagons.

Especially considering that when I made my gut call on Lawpy last night, I was asked a fairly binary question: Lawpy or Zenge?

(As an aside, Zenge is not a wolf. The only worlds in which Zenge is a wolf are worlds where he has decided to become a completely different person with a completely different playstyle, and if we want to chase that rabbithole this entire game becomes pointless. Wolf Zenge does not push his partner who is otherwise not really being sussed for a full day. Wolf Zenge is not the third vote on him.)

So you if want to position me as Lawpy's partner, I'd ask: why the hell wouldn't I have taken the lifeline and gone for Zenge? If instead of being a confused Villager I was instead a wolf, fresh off the killing of the Village's only PR, why would I hem and haw and sit on my vote for nearly a full day cycle? Why would I then, after hemming and hawing, leap onto my partner and start a lethal wagon on him? I know that I'm good at moving votes. There's a reason I've never been misyeeted, it's not just how cute I am. So why would I do that?

I wouldn't. It would be bad gameplay, a jerk move to Lawpy, and would decrease my winrate versus just trying to undermine Zenge or spin up wild WIFOM as I went down.

So today I'm faced with the question, why is Khepri tunneling me? Why is Santy borderline tunneling me? I think the answer is that one of them has the other pocketed. It makes everything else line up. I don't know which of the two is the wolf and which is being led along, but I know we have a day to figure it out. And to @Khepri and @Santygrass, I have a simple statement: last night, we caught one of the two wolves. We, as a village, did that, and the two of you did not play a big role in it. Please have a tiny smattering of grace on that front? It will make the rest of this day a lot more pleasant for all of us. No one here is mayor or otherwise an elected leader. I got heated earlier and I apologize for that. It is frustrating to be correct and do something good and have it be completely ignored. Tunnels are frustrating and bad gameplay. Let's avoid being actively grating and abrasive for the hell of it? I include myself in that.
 
Note, by the way, that while Khepri started D2 on Lawpy, she moved away the moment Lawpy's wagon started to pick up traction.
 
Last edited:
I haven't had time to come back yet and probably won't until this evening, but, I figured I'd at least drop my hot takes for fleshing out / discussing later. My VCA hot take is that the surface-level VCA for yesterday is roughly like this (worst to best):
Khepri < Santy < Me < PSV < True < MKG < Clem < Zenge

The worst 4 on there are me and my towncore from yesterday, so that's fun! Now, I would not suggest that as a yeet order because there are large caveats based on, you know, what was going on in the thread. VCA is just one piece of the puzzle. But I'll flesh that out later. Feel free to quibble!

My other hot take is that I think Lawpy perspective slipped that True is town. I expect this is the hotter take. (And I'll acknowledge right off the bat that the big caveat here is that Lawpy didn't vote for True despite him being the main cw all day).

I plan to look at this later, but was Lawpy around at all during EOD1? My off-the-cuff recollection is that he wasn't. Just thinking about whether he was around to react to the True flashwagon that was briefly a thing D1.
 
Just a couple hmm's on that last post, I see.

Nate: *posts reads*
Everyone else:
giphy.gif

Hold pls, digging up the post I'm referring to as a potential "perspective slip".
 
NateTheLesser said:
Just a couple hmm's on that last post, I see.

Nate: *posts reads*
Everyone else:
giphy.gif

Hold pls, digging up the post I'm referring to as a potential "perspective slip".
Click to expand...
Oh my 🤔 reacts are used for a wide range of emotions.

This was more of an “ intriguing, tell me more” 🤔
 
I found the answer to this question while I was looking back at things:
NateTheLesser said:
I plan to look at this later, but was Lawpy around at all during EOD1? My off-the-cuff recollection is that he wasn't. Just thinking about whether he was around to react to the True flashwagon that was briefly a thing D1.
Click to expand...

His last post before EOD was this:
Lawpy said:
I’m thinking fluffy. I’m not exactly sure why the Sevens wagon picked up speed but I actually thought Sevens made a good point on fluffy that I mentioned earlier, and I disagree with the notion that fluffy’s a low hanging fruit.

I’m also wary of Nanooks but I’ve been looking at the games you linked that’s making me think a bit more carefully. I didn’t like that Nanooks was essentially being dodgy in his earlier posts when asked questions and then giving out town reads with little explanation. But Nanooks’s later post about the Sevens read made me think a bit more. I know in SF3, Nanooks was pretty much openly agreeing with Kobas very early D1 and was town there.

I would also be wary of village reading Zenges based on that anger post alone. Zenges was known to be genuinely angry as wolf before (see Bioshock from 2021 when he was genuinely mad over the right wolf, wrong reason). That said, I think Zenges is putting up a good effort in solving so I generally feel ok about him.

I’m a little unclear why MKG suggested to yeet AM and she didn’t explain further so that was weird to me.
Click to expand...
And his first post during the night was this:
Lawpy said:
I’m sorry guys I had to attend an urgent situation. I’m going to catch up what I missed and respond shortly.
Click to expand...

Those are roughly 40 minutes before EOD and then an hour after EOD. At the point he last posted, the vote count would have been this:
Code: 
Nate    3   (Lawpy, Fluff, PSV)
Khepri  2   (Zenge, Genny)
Zenge   2   (Clem, Khepri)
Fluff   2   (AM, Nate)

It was shortly before the True wagon started. That last post is also pretty interesting, makes me even more comfortable town-reading Zenge now for one.

On that point there's also this shortly before:
Lawpy said:
Correct
Click to expand...
He's boosting the idea (floated by Khepri btw) that Zenge shouldn't be towncored just because SDNers think so, because they've been wrong on him in the past.

Anyway, back to what I was actually looking for.
 
Alright, the "slip". It's a few quote sequence, and this one is the first post of Lawpy's that made me stop and squint my eyes a bit:
Lawpy said:
I was under the impression that Truey’s static vote was due to not being caught up though?
Click to expand...

Why is the above a slip? Because the perspective takes for granted that True is town. I point this out, and then Lawpy tacks on some "if True is a wolf" reasoning:

Lawpy said:
What if wolf!Truey was anticipating a wolf!Zenges wagon would dissipate even within an hour before yeet close given that other people were being actively discussed as well? And trying to intervene earlier would make the movements look more obvious?
Click to expand...

I left open the possibility that maybe True was defending Zenge without voting defensively, and Lawpy later went back to find posts where True was doing that:
Lawpy said:
Looking back, it seemed like the Zenges wagon started losing traction at least 10 hours before D1 close.

Also regarding the bold, see below:

Edit: followup posts:
Click to expand...

So what I see is an initial slip that True's town, followed by gathering receipts to turn him into a potential push.

I haven't re-read Lawpy fully because I was mostly looking for the above conversation, but I also found a couple other instances where he was signal boosting scumreads on True:

Lawpy said:
This is a good point.
Click to expand...

Lawpy said:
yeah agreed with genny here
Click to expand...
 
NateTheLesser said:
Alright, the "slip". It's a few quote sequence, and this one is the first post of Lawpy's that made me stop and squint my eyes a bit:


Why is the above a slip? Because the perspective takes for granted that True is town. I point this out, and then Lawpy tacks on some "if True is a wolf" reasoning:



I left open the possibility that maybe True was defending Zenge without voting defensively, and Lawpy later went back to find posts where True was doing that:


So what I see is an initial slip that True's town, followed by gathering receipts to turn him into a potential push.

I haven't re-read Lawpy fully because I was mostly looking for the above conversation, but I also found a couple other instances where he was signal boosting scumreads on True:
Click to expand...
I don't really see this as a slip. I don't get how it takes for granted that true is town.
Actually, I think the initial post about his static vote reads as light defense of True, followed by the wolf!possibility later on.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
I don't really see this as a slip. I don't get how it takes for granted that true is town.
Actually, I think the initial post about his static vote reads as light defense of True, followed by the wolf!possibility later on.
Click to expand...
Do you?

Explain why
 
potentialsheltervet said:
I don't really see this as a slip. I don't get how it takes for granted that true is town.
Actually, I think the initial post about his static vote reads as light defense of True, followed by the wolf!possibility later on.
Click to expand...
I say "slip" with quotes because slip implies it's concrete and I've always hated the word "spew" for stuff like this. It's more of a perspective thing than a slip.

And the first quote superficially looks like a defense, but he's pushing back on my unpairing of True/Zenge. He's arguing they could be w/w.
 
NateTheLesser said:
I say "slip" with quotes because slip implies it's concrete and I've always hated the word "spew" for stuff like this. It's more of a perspective thing than a slip.

And the first quote superficially looks like a defense, but he's pushing back on my unpairing of True/Zenge. He's arguing they could be w/w.
Click to expand...
Okay. So you’re saying you don’t think it’s True, and I think your argument there is reasonable.

How do you feel about Khepri?

Because if not Khepri and not True, then I think we need to be looking at PSV/Santy.
 
Zenge142 said:
Okay. So you’re saying you don’t think it’s True, and I think your argument there is reasonable.

How do you feel about Khepri?

Because if not Khepri and not True, then I think we need to be looking at PSV/Santy.
Click to expand...
Well like I said earlier I think surface-level VCA looks worst for Khepri. He was the first vote for Lawpy which looks good, but moved off to Genny after Lawpy turned into a wagon, and then later voted True into the lead, and then popped in right at the end to jump back on Lawpy when he was already a done deal.

My biggest reservation with w!Khepri is that, looking back over the start of D2, he was signal boosting your Lawpy case really early on. And my reasons for townreading his EOD1 still apply, I'm not sure why w!Khepri kicks up a big fuss trying to get people to vote for True instead of me or Fluff.

Khepri had a decent wagon D1, so I need to go back and see what Lawpy had to say about it, if anything.
 
Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but dont think thats unpairing for True (In mu defense I am really sleepy and my braincells cluld be all dead). Will give a proper dive tomorrow early tho and maybe just put the last nail in the coffin.

Besides what Nate already said, its really dumb for W!Khepri to kill genny here /shrug
 
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