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hanjg

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Yale vs. Texas schools (UT-SW and Baylor)

I don't want to disrupt another similar thread going right now but my situation is a little different so I thought I'd post. Yale is not my long time dream school but it is my clear favorite. The curriculum, the "feel", everything except the money (and maybe location).

So I don't complicate things, let's just say it is down to UT-SW (with a scholarship bringing tuition and fees below $8K) and Yale (with a chance for "some" FA but still $80-120K more). If Yale is an 9/10 for me on everything except the money, Southwestern is an easy 7.5/10. It may even be closer than that.

My goal is academic medicine and I plan on doing a 5th year. I have a heavy research background and plan on continuing that in med school. I have little interest in primary care at this time. From what I've read and heard, Yale will give me "some" boost for pedigree in competitive residencies but Southwestern is no slouch in the reputation area, either. From what I've seen and heard, I'd give an edge in clinicals to Southwestern (and Baylor) over Yale.

*I consider myself incredibly fortunate to be in this position and at the start of this cycle I would have been overjoyed with any of my remaining schools. Of course, that doesn't help me make my decision.
 
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I don't know if that's the end of the story...my goal is also academic medicine and I'm going to be attending UTSW this fall. Looking at a lot of the administration at UTSW, there are a lot of UTSW alums, so I don't think going to UTSW will hinder your goal of wanting to pursue academic medicine.

One thing I do like about UTSW is the option to do an MD/MS rather than an MD/PhD (not interested in spending that much time). I am currently planning on also obtaining a M.S. in clinical science while at UTSW (I think its an extra 2 years). If I remember correctly, UTSW's school for Biomedical Sciences is ranked fairly high nationally.

And then there's the issue of money, if you're staying an extra year, the cost difference is perpetuated even more, like an extra 30-40k.

Summary: Because of money and what I imagine would be a marginal difference in pedigree for competitive residencies (you should check UTSW's 2010 match list) I think UTSW is a much better deal in your case. I honestly believe that a self-motivated, intelligent student will do well on Board Exams, and will do whatever it takes to get into a competitive residency regardless of the school they go to.
 
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Congratz. You've got some excellent choices.

In my opinion, it comes down to money. Yale is indisputably more prestigious and well-known than your other options, yet it will cost you considerably more. If you are paying for this yourself and taking out loans, I would go with UTSW - especially since you have a juicy scholarship there and plan on ultimately going into meager-paying academics (~$120k vs ~$24k). Additionally, UTSW will pay you a stipend for that 5th research year and you will not owe tuition during that time. If Yale doesn't have a similar policy, this is even more of a reason for UTSW. You could put a large dent (if not eliminate most of your debt) in your loans by the time you finish your graduate medical training by going to UTSW.

If you are fortunate enough to have your medical education paid for you, I would go with Yale. I've attached UTSW and Yale's 2010 match lists, and the advantage is clearly Yale's. That being said, UTSW is an outstanding option, and you could easily have a fabulous career going there. Yale would just give you more options, networking, and name-recognition.

As for Baylor College of Medicine, I would stay away if you have opportunities elsewhere. They've had trouble with an NIH funding dispute recently, and also they're having serious financial difficulties. Meanwhile, UTSW just gets better and better every year.


http://chronicle.com/article/Baylor-College-of-Medicine/63648/

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6900727.html
 

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searun

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If Yale is 80-120k more, and you want to do academic medicine, you would be nuts to go to Yale. Why are you even asking yourself this question? Seriously.
 

hanjg

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searun said:
Why are you even asking yourself this question? Seriously
I guess it would be this >>>>
1080jim said:
I've attached UTSW and Yale's 2010 match lists, and the advantage is clearly Yale's. ..............Yale would just give you more options, networking, and name-recognition.
If you are fortunate enough to have your medical education paid for you, I would go with Yale.
No such luck. My parents will help all they they can but I'll still be in debt - just a lot less at the Texas schools. I expect my debt if I attend Yale will still be about average for medical students and nowhere near as high as some students. And my own version of academic medicine in a traditionally higher paying specialty does not automatically exclude making money. And isn't it true that academic medicine is the area where pedigree matters most?

Where is the line? I assume the reasonable debt line varies with specialty and what percentage of time is spent teaching or in the lab rather than in practice, but how many of us know all or any of that going in? I don't know which would be worse, making my options more limited by $80-120K more debt or making my career options more limited by choice of school.

Maybe it is simple but I am finding it very hard to choose.

I'm sure it is possible to work through the negatives of either , but which path do I choose? I believe I'm prepared well enough and I expect to work hard enough to do well in medical school ...but will it be good enough to get the position I want (whatever that ends up being) coming from one of my choices other than Yale? Would I have a better chance coming from Yale? How much is that "better chance" worth if it means years of struggling with debt if I choose a lower paying career choice? How much is it worth if my career choice is higher paying? And how are we supposed to know all of this now before we even start medical school? Or do we just try to divine the future, close our eyes and jump?
 
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EBLoneStar

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I think you should pick UTSW because of how inexpensive the tuition is, and how UTSW definitely won't hold you back from anything you want to do. I'm thinking of doing the academic route as well, and I think it will definitely be doable coming from UTSW, especially with the distinction in research and all the research opportunities + funding available. It might also be easier to shine or stand out at UTSW than at Yale.

But I'm also biased because I'm pretty sure we hung out a lot at UTSW's MS0 day and I think it would be a lot of fun for us all to go to school together. I'm 99% sure I'm attending UTSW at this point.
:)
 

hanjg

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EBLoneStar said:
But I'm also biased because I'm pretty sure we hung out a lot at UTSW's MS0 day
We did. ;)
and I think it would be a lot of fun for us all to go to school together.
And it would. :D
 

hanjg

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Re-posted from the Yale thread:

I am trying hard to make my decision to attend or not. I think I understand the concrete positives (and the concrete negatives) of attending Yale over my other acceptances but......I am thinking those positives - even for someone wanting a career in academic medicine - are not really why I'm considering paying so much more for Yale than two of my other choices. In truth, they are probably not significant enough to warrant the huge cost difference for me.

Am I just being naive about Yale? What I think Yale offers me, that no one else on my list does to such an extent, is an opportunity to change the whole academic environment I've been in from middle-school on (I was a Montessori brat before that). I mean, study what is being taught, stay focused, stress over tests and papers, go off on tangents only after all the required work is done - almost an employee mentality. They are the boss and we are always doing what they want us to do , when they want us to do it, and in the way they want us to do it.

And I am more than ready for a change to a more independent, more self-directed, and more self-paced learning experience.

Am I being overly romantic about "The Yale System"? If so, I'd really feel like an idiot when I ended up after 4 or 5 years with what may be 4 times the debt. If it's really just not that different than Baylor or UT-Southwestern in learning environment then ........I need to know that.

What do y'all think? Any current Yale students reading this thread want to comment?

Thanks in advance.
 
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alibai3ah

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Personally I would go to Yale. I know everyone here seems to be focusing only on money. But to me, I want to go to the school that makes me happy. If Yale is a 9/10 for you, go there and don't look back.

Yale will open more doors for you than any of the other schools you have listed. It is quite arguably the 3rd most well known/reputable school in this country. To me this matters, and the loans you will eventually pay off anyways.

Don't go somewhere you will have regrets later. I would fork over the extra money to go to Yale personally. Sorry if I couldn't provide u would something more constructive, but all I'm saying is don't just make a rash decision only based on money.
 

DoctwoB

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Re-posted from the Yale thread:

I am trying hard to make my decision to attend or not. I think I understand the concrete positives (and the concrete negatives) of attending Yale over my other acceptances but......I am thinking those positives - even for someone wanting a career in academic medicine - are not really why I'm considering paying so much more for Yale than two of my other choices. In truth, they are probably not significant enough to warrant the huge cost difference for me.

Am I just being naive about Yale? What I think Yale offers me, that no one else on my list does to such an extent, is an opportunity to change the whole academic environment I've been in from middle-school on (I was a Montessori brat before that). I mean, study what is being taught, stay focused, stress over tests and papers, go off on tangents only after all the required work is done - almost an employee mentality. They are the boss and we are always doing what they want us to do , when they want us to do it, and in the way they want us to do it.

And I am more than ready for a change to a more independent, more self-directed, and more self-paced learning experience.

Am I being overly romantic about "The Yale System"? If so, I'd really feel like an idiot when I ended up after 4 or 5 years with what may be 4 times the debt. If it's really just not that different than Baylor or UT-Southwestern in learning environment then ........I need to know that.

What do y'all think? Any current Yale students reading this thread want to comment?

Thanks in advance.
I would go with the money, UTSW is a great school and one of the best deals in medicine.

While the "Yale system" is relatively unique, I think that the curriculum styles of different schools are overemphasized. When it comes down to it, you're all going to learn the same things. Whether that comes at you by organ system, traditional classes, lectures, or PBL, its still on you to make it happen. Furthermore, while some things like PBL sound great in theory, I've heard from more than 1 med student that when you're pressed for study time, its an inefficient way of studying that means more studying later.

P/F is great, but you're still compared to your peers albeit on a more qualitative basis. And I'm guessing you didn't get into UTSW or Yale by being a slacker who wouldn't work as hard under a P/F system.

Mabye after 13 interviews med schools kind of run together, but in the end they are much more similar than they are different. Go with a cheap, great school and you probably won't regret it.
 
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