2011-2012 BU vs. NYU vs. USC - SHOWDOWN!

[mipp0]

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The thread in a nutshell:

All three are great schools of roughly equal prestige providing excellent clinical training in an inner city environment. Strengths for each are different, along with FIT (important to me), etc.

Down to where you want to live for the next 4 years, residency advantages...

Decided BU or USC, peace out 🙂

And will contribute at the end of the cycle. Most likely under a different alias.

 

[Rippy087]

What state are you a resident of? One thing to consider is the insanely high cost of living in New York and Boston.

The school you go to really doesn't have too big of an impact in terms of what residency you want to do. You can go into EM/IM/Surgery out of any school. Exposure to any given specialty during medical school is relatively low.

 

[mipp0]

What state are you a resident of? One thing to consider is the insanely high cost of living in New York and Boston.

The school you go to really doesn't have too big of an impact in terms of what residency you want to do. You can go into EM/IM/Surgery out of any school. Exposure to any given specialty during medical school is relatively low.

Thanks for answering Rippy. I'm a Cali resident, and I would assume the cost of living would be high for all (ex: commuting back and forth from USC).

I've been told by USC (Keck) alumni and other physicians that the med school you attend does give you preference for residency at their school (saving spots essentially). The EM exposure is drastically different at various schools (some med schools don't have a trauma 1), and having a LOR from a big name EM researcher/doing well in a clerkship at a big ER can go a long way. Also, depending on location, exposure to trauma (penetrating, gun shot wounds, etc.) can be very low to very high. In established EM programs, the ED has a lot of pull and can head traumas, etc.

This is all information I received from current EM attendings and residents. I could be wrong of course.

I really appreciate your feedback BTW, and I hope this info was helpful to you as well.

Congrats on your acceptance to BU man! I see you did the BU MAMS and I'm glad it paid off. BU is a great school, but sooo expensive...

EDIT: I'm also very open to internal medicine in case EM is not my thing; weekend/holiday/evening shifts + drug-seeking patients + one of the highest malpractice rates = no fun, and luckily all three have great IM programs, with NYU with the edge in this department...

 

[Dartmouth1230]

Congrats on your acceptances! I'd personally choose NYU but I'm biased (I'll be going there in August 🙂). In terms of prestige, they're roughly equal with a slight edge to NYU. The same applies to their rankings (NYU: 30, BU: 34, USC: 36) and average stats of matriculants (NYU: 3.75, 33, BU: 3.65, 33, USC: 3.6, 32). You also have to consider where you'd like to be for residency. Like you said, all three match lists, while very strong, have a large geographic bias. Many NYU graduates end up at Columbia/Cornell/Sinai/NYU/Einstein for residency. Also, about 92-93% of NYU graduates are matched into one of their top three residency choices, compared to 91% of BU graduates into one of their top four residency choices.

Regardless, it's a tough choice. Good luck!

 

[Slack3r]

The schools are ranked pretty much the same, have pretty much the same cost of living, and are all located in large (and expensive!) cities. So it comes down to: Do you want to live on the East coast or West coast?

Tuitions (2012 MSAR)
NYU - $46k
BU - $48k
USC $47k

 

[Do it 4 SCIENCE]

You sound skeptical about NYU's ED. I suggest you look into Bellevue Hospital, which is affiliated with NYU and really excels in all the criteria you listed: "high ED volume + trauma + diverse patient population + interesting cases."In fact, you probably toured it on your interview.

That said, if you're trying to stay out west, USC is probably the place for you.

 

[Nymphicus]

I also agree, they are relatively similar. Which coast would you rather do residency/settle down on?

 

[KinasePro]

Go with NYU. It's the only school of the three that has elite residency programs (plastics and Ortho come to mind, I'm sure there are others)

 

[TheGloaming]

Where did you feel you fit in the most? Which city and school do you think would be the most comfortable? Where do you want to do residency?

 

[kautionwirez]

I'd go to NYU if you are a Californian.

I'd go to USC if you are a New Yorker.

 

[TheGloaming]

I'd go to NYU if you are a Californian.

I'd go to USC if you are a New Yorker.

Clearly, you've got some people after you...

 

[kautionwirez]

Clearly, you've got some people after you...

I just think a change in scenery would be nice.

 

[ialwayslose]

congrats on the 3 schools, that gives you an exciting decision to make.

in my honest opinion, it won't matter which of these schools you go to as far as applying to residencies goes/prestige/what-not. however, if you want to live long-term in one particular area, you might want to go with that.

In general, just go where you think you will be most happy. Personally, I'd agree with the poster above that a change of scenery is nice - I would go to USC.

So as someone who wants to live in california (but won't be :'(=me) I would say USC > BU > NYU

 

[RedSox10]

Do you know how they all grade? I.e P/F vs. H/P/F vs. H/HP/P/F? This could also influence your decision...

 

[Slack3r]

First place:

....then NYU.

^^^For truth!

USC will likely be a pre-season top 5 team, and will probably win the Pac12.

 

[MDwoman]

Personally, I'd go with BU, but again I'm biased because that's where I'll probably choose.

Boston is a great environment to go to school, with a lot of young people around. It is easy to get around the city, and while the tuition is more expensive at BU than NYU, it's a lower cost of living.

The school itself has a super strong commitment to the under-served and they definitely follow through with it. Moreover, the hospital sees a super diverse patient population, which is true of all three, but with the BMC, it's located right in between two urban poor areas, which makes it a hub of trauma cases, which will be interesting to work with. I think it's a fantastic school and a great city to live in, less crowded and expensive than NY, and with a totally different culture than LA 🙂

 

[Slack3r]

...with the BMC, it's located right in between two urban poor areas, which makes it a hub of trauma cases, which will be interesting to work with. )

Are you aware where USC+LAC is located?

 

[ilikesports]

Personally I'd probably not pick USC. Most students live about 15-20 minutes away (by car) which could get really annoying.

Also, I wasn't that impressed at my interview at Keck (though I can't speak for NYU or BU). The thing is-- they are going to be re-doing the med school in some years but currently it's not that flashy, + I just didn't get a very good feeling. It is separate from the undergraduate campus (which is gorgeous)... unfortunately...

I would say, though that Keck is on the up-rise. They claim that they will be a top 10 program by the end of the decade. If you wanna take that gamble, it could really pay off, but USC definitely has some drawbacks.

But we're comparing 3 very very good schools so it's really not that easy of a decision and it is probably more expensive to live in Boston/ NYC so... tough one!!!

 

[KinasePro]

Moreover, the hospital sees a super diverse patient population, which is true of all three, but with the BMC, it's located right in between two urban poor areas, which makes it a hub of trauma cases...

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I just want to point out the NYU's public hospital-- Bellevue HC-- is one of the country's most famous inner-city public hospitals. It was influential during the 1980's HIV epidemic and is truly an historical place. BMC is great, but it's no Bellevue.

They claim that they will be a top 10 program by the end of the decade. If you wanna take that gamble, it could really pay off, but USC definitely has some drawbacks.

Nearly every medical school has a claim like this and none of them achieve it, as far as I can tell. OSU had "top 20 by 2015" (prior to a >10 place drop in USNWR), Vanderbilt and Northwestern had "top 10 by 2010" gunning campaigns, and Michigan has been vying for a top 5 ranking for decades.

Not that it's bad for these schools to be aiming high, I think that's great. I just wouldn't put any stock in their claims when selecting a school to attend.

 

[ialwayslose]

One thing to add to BU is that its location in Boston gives you great access to that one school called Harvard (along with opportunities at Tufts, even Brown, or the many health-related industry companies in the greater Boston area (along with MIT)). NYU also provides this to a lesser extent. Not sure about USC.

Again, I'd just go with wherever you see yourself as happy.

 

[Dartmouth1230]

How does NYU provide that to a lesser extent? NYC provides more health related opportunities than any city in the world...

 

[ialwayslose]

How does NYU provide that to a lesser extent? NYC provides more health related opportunities than any city in the world...

new york is of course a larger city, so there aren't any opportunities lacking.

looking at NIH grants (not a great measure in itself) Harvard pulls in ~2.5x Columbia and Cornell combined. You can then factor in schools like Tufts, MIT, BU, whatever to compare to NYU, NYMC, Einstein, etc.

Boston is also a sort of hub for bio/pharma/bioeng companies & startups that New York City is not.

Both are of course great schools, but I think Boston as a city is a better location as far as an "epicenter for the healthcare industry"

 

[blazer123]

Largely depends on which area you want to do your residency in.

Also just a note: during rotations, most people do change medical field interests.

 

[KinasePro]

Boston is also a sort of hub for bio/pharma/bioeng companies & startups that New York City is not.

Both are of course great schools, but I think Boston as a city is a better location as far as an "epicenter for the healthcare industry"

While it is true that there's more biotech in Boston... as a medical student, why would you really care? That industry is in awful shape right now, and anything short of starting your own company isn't worth your time as a medical student.

 

[ialwayslose]

While it is true that there's more biotech in Boston... as a medical student, why would you really care? That industry is in awful shape right now, and anything short of starting your own company isn't worth your time as a medical student.

yeah i agree it doesn't matter, but its just something to consider if you want to do your residency in the area, as the poster above mentioned

 

[drizzt3117]

Go with NYU. It's the only school of the three that has elite residency programs (plastics and Ortho come to mind, I'm sure there are others)

I agree that NYU has the best national reputation but USC has elite programs in ortho and neurosurgery.

 

[mipp0]

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. All your opinions will help me make a more informed decision.

To address some of these comments...

Bellevue hospital is top notch, but despite the size of their ED, they don't get the volume of trauma (blunt/penetrating) that you would expect. It's actually one of the chief complaints of residents based on reviews, along with less than optimal peds exposure.This is because the area is saturated with medical schools + affiliated hospitals.

This is the case for BU as well, but BMC ED can hang with MGH/BWH and BID Harvard affiliated
hospitals and get the majority of the trauma. USC is a trauma beast, nuff said.

Regarding fit, I've noticed BU has more non-traditional applicants (they put less emphasis on pure numbers and are more holistic--dean's mouth) who are generally older and more mature when I interviewed. I had the worst experience at NYU, as the applicants were younger, or perhaps just acted that way. BU seemed to have the best programs/clerkships for EM for medical
students, but I've heard USC students are basically interns at the county hospitals.

USNEWS rankings: NYU>BU>USC (virtually a wash), but rankings are so close virtually equal
PRimary careC: BU>>NYU>USC
Hospital: NYU>BU=USC
Residency: BU=USC>NYU (factoring research and quality of life)
Research: NYU=BU>USC (from what I've been told, USC isn't as EM research heavy)
Trauma: USC>BU>NYU
Fit: BU>USC>NYU
Location: USC=NYU>BU

Still undecided, but I am leaning towards BU or USC. Any other comments?

Thanks again guys!

 

[drizzt3117]

You know, this is pretty academic when it comes to med school; your training for EM is going to happen in residency. I would pick the place where you'd be the most happy. Your competitiveness for EM will be similar at any of these programs and isn't really going to be particularly affected by your choice of any of these schools. Theyre all at about the same level.

For reference, my school, albeit being slightly higher ranked than these, has a relatively new EM residency and little/no trauma exposure and my classmates are getting interviews and rtm calls at the top EM academic/community programs across the country. You'll be fine at any of these schools, so go where you'll be most happy and see yourself thriving.

 

[Rippy087]

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. All your opinions will help me make a more informed decision.

To address some of these comments...

Bellevue hospital is top notch, but despite the size of their ED, they don't get the volume of trauma (blunt/penetrating) that you would expect. It's actually one of the chief complaints of residents based on reviews, along with less than optimal peds exposure.This is because the area is saturated with medical schools + affiliated hospitals.

This is the case for BU as well, but BMC ED can hang with MGH/BWH and BID Harvard affiliated
hospitals and get the majority of the trauma. USC is a trauma beast, nuff said.

Regarding fit, I've noticed BU has more non-traditional applicants (they put less emphasis on pure numbers and are more holistic--dean's mouth) who are generally older and more mature when I interviewed. I had the worst experience at NYU, as the applicants were younger, or perhaps just acted that way. BU seemed to have the best programs/clerkships for EM for medical
students, but I've heard USC students are basically interns at the county hospitals.

USNEWS rankings: NYU>BU>USC (virtually a wash)
PC: BU>>NYU>USC
Hospital: NYU>BU=USC
Residency: BU=USC>NYU (factoring research and quality of life)
Research: NYU=BU>USC (from what I've been told, USC isn't as EM research heavy)
Trauma: USC>BU>NYU
Fit: BU>USC>NYU
Location: USC=NYU>BU

Still undecided, but I am leaning towards BU or USC. Any other comments?

Thanks again guys!

Look forward to meeting you at BU next year 😀

 

[elblackwell]

What does PC stand for in this context?

 

[MalibuPreMD]

They claim that they will be a top 10 program by the end of the decade. If you wanna take that gamble, it could really pay off, but USC definitely has some drawbacks.

Just wondering, where did that claim originate?

 

[drizzt3117]

Just wondering, where did that claim originate?

It's straight up BS; rankings are primarily based on research and you can see USC is chilling at #33 on this list.

http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2011/SchoolOfMedicine_2011.xls

Of note is vandy at #9 and Emory at #13 or so.

 

[mipp0]

I agree that NYU has the best national reputation but USC has elite programs in ortho and neurosurgery.

It's straight up BS; rankings are primarily based on research and you can see USC is chilling at #33 on this list.

http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2011/SchoolOfMedicine_2011.xls

Of note is vandy at #9 and Emory at #13 or so.

Thanks for all your input drizz. Its nice to have a med students perspective. Just out of curiosity, do you expect to see the research rankings of any of these three schools to change drastically within the next several years?

 

[ialwayslose]

I'd like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. All your opinions will help me make a more informed decision.

To address some of these comments...

Bellevue hospital is top notch, but despite the size of their ED, they don't get the volume of trauma (blunt/penetrating) that you would expect. It's actually one of the chief complaints of residents based on reviews, along with less than optimal peds exposure.This is because the area is saturated with medical schools + affiliated hospitals.

This is the case for BU as well, but BMC ED can hang with MGH/BWH and BID Harvard affiliated
hospitals and get the majority of the trauma. USC is a trauma beast, nuff said.

Regarding fit, I've noticed BU has more non-traditional applicants (they put less emphasis on pure numbers and are more holistic--dean's mouth) who are generally older and more mature when I interviewed. I had the worst experience at NYU, as the applicants were younger, or perhaps just acted that way. BU seemed to have the best programs/clerkships for EM for medical
students, but I've heard USC students are basically interns at the county hospitals.

USNEWS rankings: NYU>BU>USC (virtually a wash), but rankings are so close virtually equal
PRimary careC: BU>>NYU>USC
Hospital: NYU>BU=USC
Residency: BU=USC>NYU (factoring research and quality of life)
Research: NYU=BU>USC (from what I've been told, USC isn't as EM research heavy)
Trauma: USC>BU>NYU
Fit: BU>USC>NYU
Location: USC=NYU>BU

Still undecided, but I am leaning towards BU or USC. Any other comments?

Thanks again guys!

I think based on this post it seems you have ruled out NYU.

 

[eagle34]

Thanks for all your input drizz. Its nice to have a med students perspective. Just out of curiosity, do you expect to see the research rankings of any of these three schools to change drastically within the next several years?

In terms of BU research money, there's still that newly built research building that was built with millions of government dollars thats standing without any work inside it because of some problems with surrounding community not wanting to have crazy bioterrorism research so close to them. When BU and the community finally figure out how to use that building, I think there should be many new grants flowing into BU, especially from the government who can't wait for BU to actually use the building that it built.

 

[drizzt3117]

Thanks for all your input drizz. Its nice to have a med students perspective. Just out of curiosity, do you expect to see the research rankings of any of these three schools to change drastically within the next several years?

Not really, none of the schools are on the connectome grant or any of the other big grants so I expect they will be right around where they were.

 

[MalibuPreMD]

It's straight up BS; rankings are primarily based on research and you can see USC is chilling at #33 on this list.

http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2011/SchoolOfMedicine_2011.xls

It sounded like straight up bs to me too. I wasn't sure who the poster meant by "they" but I have a hard time believing that someone (let alone multiple people) affiliated with the school would say something so far fetched. Oh well, a mi no me importa...

 

[Nymphicus]

It's straight up BS; rankings are primarily based on research and you can see USC is chilling at #33 on this list.

http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2011/SchoolOfMedicine_2011.xls

Of note is vandy at #9 and Emory at #13 or so.

I see Vanderbilt at #10 and Emory at #15? Also, Harvard at #25??

 

[KinasePro]

It sounded like straight up bs to me too. I wasn't sure who the poster meant by "they" but I have a hard time believing that someone (let alone multiple people) affiliated with the school would say something so far fetched. Oh well, a mi no me importa...

You'd be surprised how many schools play the "we'll be a top # school by 20##" game. It's not that uncommon, unfortunately.

 

[drizzt3117]

The other thing is that no one cares about usnwr rankings except admissions depts, administrators, and pre-meds. PDs are more interested in the track record of students from a given school and people they know at those institutions.

None of these 3 schools has an elite national reputation although NYU would be the closest to that. Regionally, however, they are much better known. I would make my decision more on what part of the country I'd want to end up more than other factors although EM may be a field where you could go anywhere if you did well at any of these schools, especially bc away rotations are essentially compulsory.

 

[dbeast]

My vote:

All three pretty much do the same job (operate the main public hospital for a large city), so I think it comes down more to a question of cost/location/curriculum, and the only person who can make that decision is you.

 

[nadaba]

My vote:

All three pretty much do the same job (operate the main public hospital for a large city), so I think it comes down more to a question of cost/location/curriculum, and the only person who can make that decision is you.

Aren't you a UCLA student? Blasphemy!!

 

[dbeast]

Aren't you a UCLA student? Blasphemy!!

For medical school, yes... but you should see how hard I troll the undergrads. It's legendary.

 

[MIAYO]

I see Vanderbilt at #10 and Emory at #15? Also, Harvard at #25??

It's because Harvard has their trinity of hospitals plus the children's hospital research money that consistently place Harvard at the top of us news.

 

[mipp0]

Clearly, you've got some people after you...

You're right Checked past posts and stats of certain posters, and there is at least one gunning for me, but it's not kautionwires. I like that dude 😎

There's always an ulterior motive to be found, somewhere

 

[mipp0]

Thanks to all, with special shout out to drizzt. I appreciate everyone's insight. Was impressed by the level-headedness and well thought out posts of some contributors (minus a one dbeast ). All three are great schools with unique clinical training in some rough parts.

That being said, probably going BU or USC, with slight edge to BU. Still waiting for a couple IS schools, so this might change, but I see myself very happy at either.


Oh, and I will contribute as promised at the end of the cycle 😉

 

[dbeast]

Thanks to all, with special shout out to drizzt. I appreciate everyone's insight. Was impressed by the level-headedness and well thought out posts of some contributors (minus a one dbeast ). All three are great schools with unique clinical training in some rough parts.

That being said, probably going BU or USC, with slight edge to BU. Still waiting for a couple IS schools, so this might change, but I see myself very happy at either.


Oh, and I will contribute as promised at the end of the cycle 😉