2018-2019 Waitlist Support Thread

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thegrind33 said:
A lot of docs I've talked to were confused as to why I didn't just apply to 2-3 schools and why I am even volunteering. I had one tell me "I had a bad gpa and low mcat, didnt do any volunteering, but one day I applied to medical school and just marched into my schools med school and demanded an interview and got one". Oh how times have changed
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Yeah it’s crazy how different it was even just 15 years ago.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yeah it’s crazy how different it was even just 15 years ago.
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I was trying to explain to my mom how the process works.... she gave me a long lecture on how instead of wasting my time doing research (since I am not going for PhD), I should just study with books, and I will be ok. hahahahah. I TRIED explaining to her that research is required, but she just continued lecturing me. ahhahhahah
 
M&L said:
I was trying to explain to my mom how the process works.... she gave me a long lecture on how instead of wasting my time doing research (since I am not going for PhD), I should just study with books, and I will be ok. hahahahah. I TRIED explaining to her that research is required, but she just continued lecturing me. ahhahhahah
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I chose a really good research opportunity over focusing on the mcat, I ended up screwing myself over with the mcat and it is the reason I’m waitlisted right now, but the research experience was the best thing that happened to me in all of undergrad. Thankfully I am accepted to a top DO program in my state, but IMHO, MCAT matters much more than any other activity, even research.
 
futuredoc0307 said:
I chose a really good research opportunity over focusing on the mcat, I ended up screwing myself over with the mcat and it is the reason I’m waitlisted right now, but the research experience was the best thing that happened to me in all of undergrad. Thankfully I am accepted to a top DO program in my state, but IMHO, MCAT matters much more than any other activity, even research.
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oh, you misunderstood me. In my situation that was WAY after MCAT. It is just that my mom didn't really understand the process at all.... THis is to speak to the fact that this process is very complicated and changes a lot.
 
M&L said:
I was trying to explain to my mom how the process works.... she gave me a long lecture on how instead of wasting my time doing research (since I am not going for PhD), I should just study with books, and I will be ok. hahahahah. I TRIED explaining to her that research is required, but she just continued lecturing me. ahhahhahah
Click to expand...

I mean, research isn't really required. It is if you're applying to research-heavy schools, but not for the rest. But it certainly isn't a waste of time as long as you're not doing it instead of the other, more important stuff.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Or salaries will go into the toilet and no one will want to be a doctor, so it'll be easy AF.
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My wife did her family medicine residency in the mid 90’s. The year she entered, graduating residents were earning ~$150K. During her residency, primary care salaries were cut year after year. By the end of her residency, new family docs were earning $90-100K. To the average Joe on the street maybe that sounds like good money but when you’ve accumulated $130K in educational debt, it’s not so much. And it’s only worse for primary care docs now.
 
RosiesDad said:
My wife did her family medicine residency in the mid 90’s. The year she entered, graduating residents were earning ~$150K. During her residency, primary care salaries were cut year after year. By the end of her residency, new family docs were earning $90-100K. To the average Joe on the street maybe that sounds like good money but when you’ve accumulated $130K in educational debt, it’s not so much. And it’s only worse for primary care docs now.
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I don’t know where she’s working, but I have never met a primary care doc who makes that kind of money. 90-100k is PA money. There are tons of jobs in primary care that pay way more than that and aren’t ****ty.
 
264442
 
futuredoctor007007 said:
I feel the pain. But instead of people at work it is family members for me. Decided not to tell anyone at work because they would start asking as well. Next time, I think it is safe only to keep it to myself.
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I couldn't keep it to myself since i had to ask for time off for interviews so it was known. my family knows how things are and we just avoid the topic for the most part.
 
M&L said:
I was trying to explain to my mom how the process works.... she gave me a long lecture on how instead of wasting my time doing research (since I am not going for PhD), I should just study with books, and I will be ok. hahahahah. I TRIED explaining to her that research is required, but she just continued lecturing me. ahhahhahah
Click to expand...
Parents and older physicians really have no idea what it is like. They think GPA and MCAT and a few extracurriculars get you in. No it is the whole thing. Because you can get held back by a single thing even if everything else is perfect. It could be GPA, personal statement, or MCAT.
 
RosiesDad said:
My wife did her family medicine residency in the mid 90’s. The year she entered, graduating residents were earning ~$150K. During her residency, primary care salaries were cut year after year. By the end of her residency, new family docs were earning $90-100K. To the average Joe on the street maybe that sounds like good money but when you’ve accumulated $130K in educational debt, it’s not so much. And it’s only worse for primary care docs now.
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People talk about there being primary care but don't realize that primary care is completely underincentivized. Not well compensated for lost time off. If you are going to be earning 90-100k, you are better off just doing something else (this is completely from a cost/benefit perspective). In addition primary care is being completely taken over by APRNs. At that point why put yourself through the grind of an MD when you can more or less do the same thing as an APRN.
 
ReturnToMed said:
People talk about there being primary care but don't realize that primary care is completely underincentivized. Not well compensated for lost time off. If you are going to be earning 90-100k, you are better off just doing something else (this is completely from a cost/benefit perspective). In addition primary care is being completely taken over by APRNs. At that point why put yourself through the grind of an MD when you can more or less do the same thing as an APRN.
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You will not be earning 90-100k as a physician unless you are working extremely part time. The average salary for FM docs is over 200k, and it’s one of the specialties with higher rates of part time employment. I have no idea where that other person is working, but that area is the extreme exception to the rule.

AAFP News

news
www.aafp.org www.aafp.org

 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
You will not be earning 90-100k as a physician unless you are working extremely part time. The average salary for FM docs is over 200k, and it’s one of the specialties with higher rates of part time employment. I have no idea where that other person is working, but that area is the extreme exception to the rule.

AAFP News

news
www.aafp.org www.aafp.org

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Just to add this in there. I wonder how much of that is from being an actual physician. Around where I am, a fair amount of primary care physicians have APRNs do a lot of the real medicine and then they do like "health" supplements and stuff. Could just be a one off thing where I am.
 
ReturnToMed said:
Just to add this in there. I wonder how much of that is from being an actual physician. Around where I am, a fair amount of primary care physicians have APRNs do a lot of the real medicine and then they do like "health" supplements and stuff. Could just be a one off thing where I am.
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Yeah if you talk to the primary care docs, most of them will tell you that midlevels are not a threat. Most patients still want a doctor, and more and more of them want a doctor every year as they see how substandard the care is from midlevels.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yeah if you talk to the primary care docs, most of them will tell you that midlevels are not a threat. Most patients still want a doctor, and more and more of them want a doctor every year as they see how substandard the care is from midlevels.
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That substandard care thing is too real especially when it comes to writing medications.
 
ReturnToMed said:
Parents and older physicians really have no idea what it is like. They think GPA and MCAT and a few extracurriculars get you in. No it is the whole thing. Because you can get held back by a single thing even if everything else is perfect. It could be GPA, personal statement, or MCAT.
Click to expand...
So true. My parents were confused as to how I was getting waitlisted at places. People just don’t get that an interview isn’t a sure acceptance
 
Goro said:
I agree with you, but life's not fair. Also, one does not have to go to med school at at 21. One can work for a few years and also work on building a good app. Time mgt, discipline, work history are all positives.
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"Life's not fair" shouldn't be used as a rationale for terrible policies. Medical schools have very few incentives to recruit students from lower SES and it shows.

Yes. Students can take off 5-10 years and work before medical school, but you've just drastically decreased their chance of even applying.

Medical schools reap what they sow. Patients suffer as a result

-Fewer doctors from low income backgrounds yield fewer doctors in low resource settings and primary care
-Fewer hispanic doctors who speak spanish (tend to be from low income background) yield fewer doctors that can effectively communicate with the growing hispanic population in the US


You effectively "select" for people that care about medicine for prestige, future income, or because their parents did it. No wonder so many physicians hate their jobs.
 
ReturnToMed said:
People talk about there being primary care but don't realize that primary care is completely underincentivized. Not well compensated for lost time off. If you are going to be earning 90-100k, you are better off just doing something else (this is completely from a cost/benefit perspective). In addition primary care is being completely taken over by APRNs. At that point why put yourself through the grind of an MD when you can more or less do the same thing as an APRN.
Click to expand...
So I've had the privilege of shadowing a great primary care doc. After working with this doc, I've come to a theory and that is that many primary care docs/practices are bad at business. There are a lot of incentives built into the ACA and insurance policies (UHRC specifically) that are not taking advantage of. This doc made over 170k for just making sure his patient's we're doing the regular preventative care they should do (like a pt with diabetes getting regular eye exams, or making sure pts are filling rx). These landmarks are also set to reasonable standards like only 70% compliance for an extra bonus. He had to fill out a lot of paperwork but it was easy "extra money." So my point is that the business model is there to make good money, many aren't taking advantage of it or are "competing" themselves out of the market.
 
JiffyLube said:
"Life's not fair" shouldn't be used as a rationale for terrible policies. Medical schools have very few incentives to recruit students from lower SES and it shows.

Yes. Students can take off 5-10 years and work before medical school, but you've just drastically decreased their chance of even applying.

Medical schools reap what they sow. Patients suffer as a result

-Fewer doctors from low income backgrounds yield fewer doctors in low resource settings and primary care
-Fewer hispanic doctors who speak spanish (tend to be from low income background) yield fewer doctors that can effectively communicate with the growing hispanic population in the US


You effectively "select" for people that care about medicine for prestige, future income, or because their parents did it. No wonder so many physicians hate their jobs.
Click to expand...
I think most people regardless of what their job is usual tend to hate it or at least dislike it to some degree because it gets rather mundane for them.
 
FlyerScribe said:
So I've had the privilege of shadowing a great primary care doc. After working with this doc, I've come to a theory and that is that many primary care docs/practices are bad at business. There are a lot of incentives built into the ACA and insurance policies (UHRC specifically) that are not taking advantage of. This doc made over 170k for just making sure his patient's we're doing the regular preventative care they should do (like a pt with diabetes getting regular eye exams, or making sure pts are filling rx). These landmarks are also set to reasonable standards like only 70% compliance for an extra bonus. He had to fill out a lot of paperwork but it was easy "extra money." So my point is that the business model is there to make good money, many aren't taking advantage of it or are "competing" themselves out of the market.
Click to expand...
It is very time consuming to fill out the paper work despite it "being easy money" and often insurance companies assume you have a department dedicated to doing a lot of the paperwork which most private practices don't. I do agree most physicians are bad at business.
 
introp445 said:
So true. My parents were confused as to how I was getting waitlisted at places. People just don’t get that an interview isn’t a sure acceptance
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I was waitlisted everywhere I interviewed. Felt like the interviews went well overall. This made me surprissd that I didn't get 1 acceptance. Did you feel this way too?
 
JiffyLube said:
"Life's not fair" shouldn't be used as a rationale for terrible policies. Medical schools have very few incentives to recruit students from lower SES and it shows.

Yes. Students can take off 5-10 years and work before medical school, but you've just drastically decreased their chance of even applying.

Medical schools reap what they sow. Patients suffer as a result

-Fewer doctors from low income backgrounds yield fewer doctors in low resource settings and primary care
-Fewer hispanic doctors who speak spanish (tend to be from low income background) yield fewer doctors that can effectively communicate with the growing hispanic population in the US


You effectively "select" for people that care about medicine for prestige, future income, or because their parents did it. No wonder so many physicians hate their jobs.
Click to expand...
Med schools actively recruit students from URM populations. The problem is that fewer URMs apply to med schools than ORMs. We already know that patient outcomes ride on it.

But enough thread hijacking.
 
So this is the first time I have ever been to his website and I am reading there is something possibly delaying the waitlist. Can someone please explain in a concise message what happened and what the future holds for waitlisted applicants.
 
exzeus5 said:
So this is the first time I have ever been to his website and I am reading there is something possibly delaying the waitlist. Can someone please explain in a concise message what happened and what the future holds for waitlisted applicants.
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In the most concise way to put it... nobody knows and it’s all speculation. If you want all the speculation there’s plenty of pages to read through on this thread starting 4/30 and onward... but again it’s all speculation.
 
@gyngyn

Many of us on the WL are more vulnerable to receiving bad financial aid packages because we can’t always receive it in time to make a decision or because scholarships are used up.

Are private loans or institutional loans ever really covered by loan forgiveness programs? How common is that?
 
ZFox said:
@gyngyn

Many of us on the WL are more vulnerable to receiving bad financial aid packages because we can’t always receive it in time to make a decision or because scholarships are used up.

Are private loans or institutional loans ever really covered by loan forgiveness programs? How common is that?
Click to expand...
Loan forgiveness isn’t really a thing I think. I wouldn’t rely on it.
 
ReturnToMed said:
It is very time consuming to fill out the paper work despite it "being easy money" and often insurance companies assume you have a department dedicated to doing a lot of the paperwork which most private practices don't. I do agree most physicians are bad at business.
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Your right. And it was time consuming. And annoyed him very much (he filled out much of the paperwork) but the time investment paid off (from what I gathered). Obviously I have a limited view of the complete financial breakdowns but he seemed to make it work well. It was also a private practice with 4-5 employees and an NP. It was eye opening for sure, seeing it work right, bc everyone is always (mostly on SDN/Reddit) super pessimistic about primary care... This would be interesting topic for its own post... Good luck fellow waitlistees!!!
 
ZFox said:
@gyngyn

Many of us on the WL are more vulnerable to receiving bad financial aid packages because we can’t always receive it in time to make a decision or because scholarships are used up.

Are private loans or institutional loans ever really covered by loan forgiveness programs? How common is that?
Click to expand...
There are state programs Loan Repayment Program | Medical Board of California (in addition to federal ones like the NHSC) that forgive indebtedness depending on the field in which you practice or where you work.
In CA, I am aware of at least one private, non-profit that does, as well.
 
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exzeus5 said:
So this is the first time I have ever been to his website and I am reading there is something possibly delaying the waitlist. Can someone please explain in a concise message what happened and what the future holds for waitlisted applicants.
Click to expand...
This is the first cycle in which the organization that oversaw the rules of conduct for schools and applicants stopped doing so.
In preparation for this, schools altered their application strategies. Unexpected consequences ensued.
 
gyngyn said:
This is the first cycle in which the organization that oversaw the rules of conduct for schools and applicants stopped doing so.
In preparation for this, schools altered their application strategies. Unexpected consequences ensued.
Click to expand...
I could be wrong, but I'd expect that things are mostly unchanged? Schools have many years of experience protecting yield and seeing which applicants get multiple acceptances.
Perhaps WL movement started later this cycle than others, but it is likely mostly over, just like it is near June of most app cycles. Are there really significant "consequences", or changes to this app cycle vs. others? No, right?

I do not see any significant consequences to med schools or applicants (besides time wasted by med schools, unfortunately)
 
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gyngyn said:
This is the first cycle in which the organization that oversaw the rules of conduct for schools and applicants stopped doing so.
In preparation for this, schools altered their application strategies. Unexpected consequences ensued.
Click to expand...

Are you still committed to your stance that significant waitlist movement will occur in June?

Please make my day gyngyn 🙁
 
Meridian17 said:
forums.studentdoctor.net

*** 2018-2019 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

Wow, seeing how few people are in my position (still seeking) is both reassuring and terrifying... Don't worry, I'm in the same boat. :-) My best wishes to everyone.
forums.studentdoctor.net forums.studentdoctor.net

This MD/PhD adcom posted data from their own school and it appears movement is almost done, obviously MD/PhD is different but still... 🙁
Click to expand...

Definitely cannot generalize MD/PhD to MD. Not the same at all.
 
Throwaway21234567 said:
I could be wrong, but I'd expect that things are mostly unchanged? Schools have many years of experience protecting yield and seeing which applicants get multiple acceptances.
Perhaps WL movement started later this cycle than others, but it is likely mostly over, just like it is near June of most app cycles. Are there really significant "consequences", or changes to this app cycle vs. others? No, right?

I do not see any significant consequences to med schools or applicants (besides time wasted by med schools, unfortunately)
Click to expand...
Things have definitely changed.
 
hno1 said:
After this past week, I've given up on this cycle. One school had a lot of movement and the other hand none, but my situation didn't change. Now I'm trying to figure out how I can re-write a new personal statement within the week, ekh.
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I don’t think it has to be a completely new PS. I’d use your first as s starting off point
 
introp445 said:
I don’t think it has to be a completely new PS. I’d use your first as s starting off point
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I agree. What you wrote about the first time should be true and an important part of your story. I basically edited mine; removing unimportant information, changing sentence structure, and adding new insights. Believe it or not, you have grown over the year, and with enough reflection, these edits/updates will come to you. Good luck!
 
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