Class of 2020... how you doin?

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My nutrition final was probably the one that I was the most worried about, but that really wasn't as difficult as I was expecting. Hoping that's a good sign. If I pulled any higher than a C in that class after the curve, I will be a happy camper. 😀

Just radiology tomorrow (shouldn't be bad and I pretty solidly have an A in that class) and then I am FREE! Bring on sleeping in, hanging out with friends and family, movies, and having somewhat of a life again!
 
I passed anatomy!!!

They emailed they had handed back our tests so we all went to school to pick them up. The parking lot was full of first years haha

This was the only class I was sort of worried about just cause it's not my thing, so now I can actually enjoy break!
 
vetmedhead said:
I'm imagining someone creating a noose and strangling the dog instead of suturing it. That would be a fatal error, right?
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Well. I once took in a dog on emergency that had been spayed, and the vet had ligated both ureters and partly ligated the caudal vena cava.

That was a fatal error.....
 
twelvetigers said:
Well, he said it was a fatal error so... I'm guessing not?

I can't imagine scooping up a ureter and ligating it Willy nilly. I hope it's not an easy thing to do.
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:smack: Good point. Don't know where my brain went.

I also hope it's not easy to ligate the ureter and the caudal vena cava. This just made spays seems more terrifying than I thought they were...
 
WildZoo said:
:smack: Good point. Don't know where my brain went.

I also hope it's not easy to ligate the ureter and the caudal vena cava. This just made spays seems more terrifying than I thought they were...
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Spays are very terrifying. You're expected to do a major abdominal surgery and ligate some major vessels in a 1-3" incision...no thank you.
 
JaynaAli said:
Spays are very terrifying. You're expected to do a major abdominal surgery and ligate some major vessels in a 1-3" incision...no thank you.
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I guess I just never really thought about it that way since a huge chunk of my shadowing/volunteering experience was in shelters. They make it seem very routine!
 
WildZoo said:
Damn. Did the dog make it?
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Oh hell no.

And no, it's not "easy" to ligate the ureter (and especially caudal vena cava). But, point is, this was a vet who has done .... I dunno .... a few thousand spays, probably. 20+ years of GP. Good vet who sends us well-worked-up and managed cases. Not some shoddy sketchy vet.

Just hammers home the rule - always positively identify what you're ligating. For a spay, find the bifurcation. If it's bifurcated, it's the uterus, and you can't be screwing it up. If you're just sorta fishing around and you are too aggressive with a spay hook (I don't really use one, myself, usually) and you 'think' you've got the uterus.... you can end up like that vet.

I'm with JaynaAli ... a spay can be a really boring/easy procedure (like a young cat spay or something), but it can also be a complex, difficult procedure. I've seen third-year surgery residents struggle with a spay.

I'm not saying 'be terrified'. It's a common procedure we all should be able to do. But don't let the 'routine' of it get you away from remembering that it's a major abdominal procedure. I'd rather do a GDV, a FB surgery, a cystotomy .... any of those over an older fat dog spay.
 
LetItSnow said:
Well. I once took in a dog on emergency that had been spayed, and the vet had ligated both ureters and partly ligated the caudal vena cava.

That was a fatal error.....
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Yikes, how did that even happen? I'm definitely not looking forward to spays, there's too much crap in the abdominal cavity. :scared:
 
LetItSnow said:
I've seen third-year surgery residents struggle with a spay.
I'm not saying 'be terrified'. It's a common procedure we all should be able to do. But don't let the 'routine' of it get you away from remembering that it's a major abdominal procedure. I'd rather do a GDV, a FB surgery, a cystotomy .... any of those over an older fat dog spay.
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This. Also the boarded surgeon with special surgical oncology training that I worked with last year absolutely hated spays. She also said she admired GPs and especially shelter vets who do them from the keyhole incisions because she vastly preferred to open the patients up completely and actually see what she was working with. Most of her patients were presenting for things other than 'just' preventative OHE (think pyometra, ovarian/uterine masses, spay+pexy, general explore, etc) so she could get away with it. Even if it's a common procedure it is still a major surgery.

In little bitty, pediatric patients, I can absolutely see how someone could grab the ureter by mistake. The uterus is extremely tiny in those prepubertial patients. I have hooked the ureter with the spay hook before (I hate the spay hook and prefer using my finger but they made us do both in school) but like LIS said if you follow it down to a bifurcation you'll find out if you've got the right thing before making a mistake.
 
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vetmedhead said:
Yikes, how did that even happen? I'm definitely not looking forward to spays, there's too much crap in the abdominal cavity. :scared:
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Dunno. I wasn't there. His record noted that it was a "difficult" procedure with some "bleeding" and that he felt like some tissue tore.

Hard to say what happened.... badness, I guess. I mean, it's easy in isolation to say "holy **** how did that happen?!" but with thousands upon thousands of procedures done every year ... some go very badly in ways that seem to defy explanation. Just pray it isn't you. My real point in all that (in addition to "a spay isn't necessarily 'easy' or 'routine'") is that this guy is/was a good vet and STILL had something almost baffling bad happen that was 100% his fault. Whenever I'm tempted to start judging another vet, I remember that - good vet with a ****ty mistake. There but for the grace of god go I, etc.

I mean, no doubt he screwed up. And I'm sure he knows that. But he's an all-around good vet that does a good job.
 
I have a great picture (mostly to terrify myself with) of a pediatric necropsy I did with the urinary and repro systems laid on top of one another. How close in size the uterus and ureters are is scary.

We aren't taught to trace to bifurcation in our surgery class, there's just a terrifying thread on VIN that made me start doing it. Wish we were.
 
LetItSnow said:
Dunno. I wasn't there. His record noted that it was a "difficult" procedure with some "bleeding" and that he felt like some tissue tore.

Hard to say what happened.... badness, I guess. I mean, it's easy in isolation to say "holy **** how did that happen?!" but with thousands upon thousands of procedures done every year ... some go very badly in ways that seem to defy explanation. Just pray it isn't you. My real point in all that (in addition to "a spay isn't necessarily 'easy' or 'routine'") is that this guy is/was a good vet and STILL had something almost baffling bad happen that was 100% his fault. Whenever I'm tempted to start judging another vet, I remember that - good vet with a ****ty mistake. There but for the grace of god go I, etc.

I mean, no doubt he screwed up. And I'm sure he knows that. But he's an all-around good vet that does a good job.
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Oh yeah, definitely. I think horrible mistakes happen all of the time, even with great practitioners. I would be absolutely gutted to know that I had done that to an animal, so I can't imagine how he felt to know that was his fault. I mean, there's nothing you can do beyond being more careful/mindful/attentive/whatever during spays from that point forward, learning from that error, but I think for many people that would definitely be a difficult mistake to swallow and move on from in a productive way without obsessing over it.
 
Helping teach vet students how to do spays, the biggest helpers I had were:

- Turn the spay hook opening toward the body wall and slide it down to where the uterus should be before you make your grab. (If I could talk them into either closing their eyes or just doing it to humor me, they got it 90%+, especially if they had been frustrated and searching for quite a while.)

- Follow both directions. Bifurcation on one side and ovary on the other before you ligate or cut.

There was a lot more, but those 2 were the ones that helped a lot of frustrated or scared students. That and breathe.
 
LadyOtheFarm said:
Helping teach vet students how to do spays, the biggest helpers I had were:

- Turn the spay hook opening toward the body wall and slide it down to where the uterus should be before you make your grab. (If I could talk them into either closing their eyes or just doing it to humor me, they got it 90%+, especially if they had been frustrated and searching for quite a while.)

- Follow both directions. Bifurcation on one side and ovary on the other before you ligate or cut.

There was a lot more, but those 2 were the ones that helped a lot of frustrated or scared students. That and breathe.
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As someone who does spays...the first point doesn't work unless you're next to the body wall not just pointed at it.

I hate spay hooks in any case. They can easily grab thing they shouldn't or lacerate the spleen. I look with my fingers.

As to the 2nd point, yes. You need to verify your landmarks. I think it's more difficult in cryptorchid neuters than in spays, but you shouldn't be ligating anything unless you're sure of where you are.

Biggest most important tip?

Don't be afraid to make your incision bigger so you can see. It might not be as cosmetic, but at least you can be more confident. Smaller incision size should be like speed. You don't work on it until you have the procedure down pat before it enters your concern
 
I know a vet who routinely explains a spay in detail to clients, then explains that incisions heal side to side, not front to back and she only did/does spays through a bigger incision. It makes her more comfortable.

Personally, I hate spays. I hate that the general public thinks they are "simple", they aren't.

The words "10 year old 115 pound lab in for spay" makes me want to run away screaming and never look back. You can't understand what it is like until you are attempting to ligate something that wants to disappear back into a deep, dark abyss. The something you are ligating is covered in layers of fat which makes ligation more difficult, the body wall is likely oozing blood (because no matter how hard you try that ****er always oozes) into this small, dark abyss that you have limited visualization. So now you are ligating a fat covered vessel in a somewhat blood tinged, dark abyss.... and don't forget that fat makes everything slippery as **** so you can't get as good of a grasp on anything. Oh and on top of this, don't forget there is body wall, omentum and all sorts of things getting in the way of your limited view and you have to be sure none of that gets caught in your ligatures. And once you finish this on one side, you get the joy of repeating it on the other.
 
Guys, I highly doubt LotF was singlehandedly teaching students how to spay things. A tech giving tips when a student is frustrated and the vet is otherwise occupied seems pretty darn reasonable to me.

Plus half the time there is frustration it's not the technical tips that fix it... it is the act of stepping back, stopping for a second and taking a deep breath.

I like spay hooks. I have tiny hands with stumpy chubby fingers (my whole hand can fit in large mens' palms) and never really had luck feeling for uterus. I think most of the battle is honestly correctly placing the incision (when I first started doing spay days I'd always go way too caudal) and just knowing your poison of the day.

Aka: if it's the in heat adult golden that I saw on the schedule for tomorrow, I start way bigger. Way I see it, I'll either spend the time wrestling tissue through a smaller incision or spend it closing, and one is waaaay better for my blood pressure and from a visceral "stretch" pain management position. If it's a six month old kitten I have pretty darn tiny incisions and am very comfortable with'em.
 
DVMDream said:
The words "10 year old 115 pound lab in for spay" makes me want to run away screaming and never look back.
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We had a similar patient and the doctor had a doctor from another location come in to assist. I think it might have actually been a mastiff, can't remember. Perhaps a tiny incision shouldn't be expected in those cases 😵
 
LetItSnow said:
Personally, I think vet students should learn to spay from an actual vet.
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Trilt said:
Guys, I highly doubt LotF was singlehandedly teaching students how to spay things. A tech giving tips when a student is frustrated and the vet is otherwise occupied seems pretty darn reasonable to me.
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Yes Dy, I oversimplified for posting on a forum to agree with looking for landmarks.

And yes, if I was helping the vet was otherwise occupied and the student was getting frustrated to the point of walking away. Rather than let them just leave an education opportunity and a patient just lying on the table, I would step in. Get them to refocus and try a new approach. If they were scared, reminding them to either prove to themselves that they had things right (landmarks), or just allowing them the ability to decide (reminding them that they are the decision maker in this case) that they needed a larger incision than our doctor uses on a kitten and that it is not a competition and is ok.

There is a whole lot more advice that can be given, but that is relevant only to the student or unskilled surgeon in question at the moment it is needed, not here.
 
LadyOtheFarm said:
Yes Dy, I oversimplified for posting on a forum to agree with looking for landmarks.

And yes, if I was helping the vet was otherwise occupied and the student was getting frustrated to the point of walking away. Rather than let them just leave an education opportunity and a patient just lying on the table, I would step in. Get them to refocus and try a new approach. If they were scared, reminding them to either prove to themselves that they had things right (landmarks), or just allowing them the ability to decide (reminding them that they are the decision maker in this case) that they needed a larger incision than our doctor uses on a kitten and that it is not a competition and is ok.

There is a whole lot more advice that can be given, but that is relevant only to the student or unskilled surgeon in question at the moment it is needed, not here.
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do you mean, yes, LIS? Because you quoted him then called me out...
 
dyachei said:
do you mean, yes, LIS? Because you quoted him then called me out...
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I was responding to you, and your quote of me and then went on to each of the other 2 quotes. I just didn't see a quick quote that made sense for me to quote and was just verifying I understood your point. It wasn't meant to be a call out, just letting you know I saw and understood.
 
I'm just glad to hear that practiced DVMs think it's okay to have a bigger incision. I've heard certain ex-bosses of mine crack jokes about new puppies/kittens/animals that went through a vet school surgery course, and how big their incisions are. It just kind of stuck with me that big incisions indicate lack of skill, but I'm comforted knowing that it was just a rude judgement on someone else's part.

My boyfriend's first cat had a pretty length incision. Guess what? In about two months, it was covered in fur.

To be honest, any surgery scares the bajeezus out of me. A great piece of advice I've gotten is to "never get comfortable."

Edit: Actually, anything with anesthesia scares the bajeezus out of me. I get to do a lot with the wildlife at my school, and I always get a little frustrated when people aren't paying attention or working efficiently while we've got a patient under iso for rads, IO catheters, whatever.
 
My ex boss would complain abut how tiny her associate's incisions were, to the point that she'd tell clients that associate doctor 'doesn't do xyz sx correctly'.
 
DVMDream said:
I don't know what specialty it is you are considering, but I've heard numerous times that who you know, references and your contacts are >> than GPA. Yes, should probably have as good of a GPA as you can to help get accepted to internships and residencies but don't downplay the importance of making connections which you are already doing. Hang in there, keep fighting the good fight and remember to have a little fun along the way. 🙂
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Also, this post cheered me up a bit. I've been putting so much pressure on myself because I'm in the bottom half of my class and I hope to do go into zoo med. I can't exactly forget my goal in the meantime, but I need to stop obsessing over it.

I mean, if I'm getting most of the questions right on exams, that must mean I know something, right? 😉
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
I'm just glad to hear that practiced DVMs think it's okay to have a bigger incision. I've heard certain ex-bosses of mine crack jokes about new puppies/kittens/animals that went through a vet school surgery course, and how big their incisions are. It just kind of stuck with me that big incisions indicate lack of skill, but I'm comforted knowing that it was just a rude judgement on someone else's part.

My boyfriend's first cat had a pretty length incision. Guess what? In about two months, it was covered in fur.

To be honest, any surgery scares the bajeezus out of me. A great piece of advice I've gotten is to "never get comfortable."

Edit: Actually, anything with anesthesia scares the bajeezus out of me. I get to do a lot with the wildlife at my school, and I always get a little frustrated when people aren't paying attention or working efficiently while we've got a patient under iso for rads, IO catheters, whatever.
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I think like many things being able to make smaller incisions takes practice and a certain level of comfort. Some people have tons of experience with spays and aren't comfortable with smaller incisions and that's totally fine because incision size isn't exactly indicative of the skill needed to perform a spay, and on the other side of things there are probably plenty of people are very comfortable with small incisions who maybe shouldn't be based on their experience.

Honestly, as long as the patient's welfare isn't compromised and you aren't harvesting organs I think things like that come down to personal preference and people who judge based on something like that are probably quite picky.

I'm personally very used to seeing small incisions because I work in a high volume spay/neuter operation and our vet has done at least several dozen spays a week for years, so she's got that technique down and has tons of experience working from tiny incisions. Even with that I've seen her widen incisions many times for various reasons and she's always the first to tell clients that incision size doesn't say much about the quality of the surgery itself.
 
vetmedhead said:
I think like many things being able to make smaller incisions takes practice and a certain level of comfort. Some people have tons of experience with spays and aren't comfortable with smaller incisions and that's totally fine because incision size isn't exactly indicative of the skill needed to perform a spay, and on the other side of things there are probably plenty of people are very comfortable with small incisions who maybe shouldn't be based on their experience.

Honestly, as long as the patient's welfare isn't compromised and you aren't harvesting organs I think things like that come down to personal preference and people who judge based on something like that are probably quite picky.

I'm personally very used to seeing small incisions because I work in a high volume spay/neuter operation and our vet has done at least several dozen spays a week for years, so she's got that technique down and has tons of experience working from tiny incisions. Even with that I've seen her widen incisions many times for various reasons and she's always the first to tell clients that incision size doesn't say much about the quality of the surgery itself.
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Yeah...I mean looking back, most of my pre-vet experience was in zoos, so I didn't get to see as many routine spays/neuters as I would have liked, so I don't know a ton about what they should look like. I think the first spay I ever saw was on a lion 😀
 
pinkpuppy9 said:
Yeah...I mean looking back, most of my pre-vet experience was in zoos, so I didn't get to see as many routine spays/neuters as I would have liked, so I don't know a ton about what they should look like. I think the first spay I ever saw was on a lion 😀
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The first neuter I ever saw was a woodchuck :laugh:
 
This has absolutely nothing to do with spay/neuters but I've got one more exam tomorrow and my motivation died over Fall break. "X points to pass/ already passed" has been the theme.
I'll be better next semester, I swear. Maybe every first year says the same thing but I hope I'm not lying to myself--Especially after learning some people did NOT pass a class and I shouldn't take things for granted. My solution is to make sure I volunteer more so I can remember why I'm here. It took me 15 years to be able to even apply to veterinary school and I'm disabled, I ought to have the most motivation out of everyone on campus to make sure I thrive.
 
Trilt said:
Guys, I highly doubt LotF was singlehandedly teaching students how to spay things.
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I didn't think she was. And her advice wasn't bad (though overly simplified).

But a student should learn surgery from a vet. I have heard wayyyyyyy too many bad tips (not in this case) regarding surgery from techs or non-tech, non-dvms. That's all. If a student is frustrated in surgery, the best way a tech can help is to go get a dvm. They don't have the knowledge base to know which advice is best given at which times.

This isn't some "oooo look at my degree, I'm better." I have learned a LOT from techs. I'm just saying that when it comes to something fairly serious like how to perform a surgical procedure - get your advice from someone appropriate.

Of course LoTF wasn't single handedly trying to teach anyone how to do a spay. And the actual advice - in this case - wasn't horrible.

(Though I still think spay hooks are a waste of time, but lots of vets love 'em.)
 
I got chewed out by a client about a long incision. It was a fourth time FB. She was mad because the last doc - a boarded surgeon - had made the incision "too big".

I was tired, not thinking, so instead of just smiling and nodding I explained that the surgeons like to get better abdominal visualization to do a full explore, it heals side to side, etc.

She got so pissed at me that she demanded to see another vet. I laughed and laughed when I went to pass her off to the other ER doc.

The irony is that the big incision had allowed the surgeon to find some liver pathology that had been successfully treated. And yet the lady STILL thought it was too big.
 
LetItSnow said:
I didn't think she was. And her advice wasn't bad (though overly simplified).

But a student should learn surgery from a vet. I have heard wayyyyyyy too many bad tips (not in this case) regarding surgery from techs or non-tech, non-dvms. That's all. If a student is frustrated in surgery, the best way a tech can help is to go get a dvm. They don't have the knowledge base to know which advice is best given at which times.

This isn't some "oooo look at my degree, I'm better." I have learned a LOT from techs. I'm just saying that when it comes to something fairly serious like how to perform a surgical procedure - get your advice from someone appropriate.

Of course LoTF wasn't single handedly trying to teach anyone how to do a spay. And the actual advice - in this case - wasn't horrible.

(Though I still think spay hooks are a waste of time, but lots of vets love 'em.)
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I need to hang out with one of you guys who uses your fingers, I've just seriously had zero luck with that. Do you not use a hook in cats either?

I guess I just can't get worked up about a tech telling students to breath and reiterating the normal tips that the dvm gives them. I would have appreciated that for sure when I started out. Yeah ideally there would be a dvm standing over the shoulder of every student but that wasn't even reality in our surgery class...
 
Trilt said:
I need to hang out with one of you guys who uses your fingers, I've just seriously had zero luck with that. Do you not use a hook in cats either?

I guess I just can't get worked up about a tech telling students to breath and reiterating the normal tips that the dvm gives them. I would have appreciated that for sure when I started out. Yeah ideally there would be a dvm standing over the shoulder of every student but that wasn't even reality in our surgery class...
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I don't use a hook in cats either, right. But I also don't do keyhole spays like those rock star high-volume vets. I mean, my incisions aren't huge (I usually close with two cruciates in a cat), but they are big enough that I can see easily.

I do resort to a hook sometimes if it just isn't working by feel/sight. I just don't like it, yanno?

I suspect if you want that keyhole spay that you can close with a single loop / one cruciate / one interrupted / whatever, you're going to have to use a hook. Maybe not. Dunno.

I don't think I was "worked up," Trilt. You're overreacting. I was just pointing out that hey, taking advice about how to do surgery from a non-validated, non-credentialed source ... is probably not a good plan in the Big Picture. This wasn't about LoTF or anything, and her specific advice was fine. You're making a bigger deal of it than I was. I would just be very, very, very cautious about taking surgical tips from someone who isn't an appropriate teaching source - it's that much harder to know if it's good or bad advice.
 
LetItSnow said:
I don't use a hook in cats either, right. But I also don't do keyhole spays like those rock star high-volume vets. I mean, my incisions aren't huge (I usually close with two cruciates in a cat), but they are big enough that I can see easily.

I do resort to a hook sometimes if it just isn't working by feel/sight. I just don't like it, yanno?

I suspect if you want that keyhole spay that you can close with a single loop / one cruciate / one interrupted / whatever, you're going to have to use a hook. Maybe not. Dunno.

I don't think I was "worked up," Trilt. You're overreacting. I was just pointing out that hey, taking advice about how to do surgery from a non-validated, non-credentialed source ... is probably not a good plan in the Big Picture. This wasn't about LoTF or anything, and her specific advice was fine. You're making a bigger deal of it than I was. I would just be very, very, very cautious about taking surgical tips from someone who isn't an appropriate teaching source - it's that much harder to know if it's good or bad advice.
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I didn't say you were worked up, or mean to imply. Just a figure of speech I use to mean "it doesn't really bug me." I coached lots of students along in surgery when I was barely more experienced because the vet running the show was, well... running the show. I can imagine it being a similar thing with LotF since I know she worked in a high volume place. Giving tips to scared students seems reasonable to me. That's all. I understand your point but think my tolerance is just higher. 🙂

I usually close cats with two cruciates also. Mayhaps my fingers are just defective. 😛
 
Trilt said:
I didn't say you were worked up, or mean to imply. Just a figure of speech I use to mean "it doesn't really bug me." I coached lots of students along in surgery when I was barely more experienced because the vet running the show was, well... running the show. I can imagine it being a similar thing with LotF since I know she worked in a high volume place. Giving tips to scared students seems reasonable to me. That's all. I understand your point but think my tolerance is just higher. 🙂

I usually close cats with two cruciates also. Mayhaps my fingers are just defective. 😛
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I guess I tend to play the "how will this play in the newspaper the next day" game a lot in my head. So if I were a student struggling with a spay and uncertain about how to proceed, the way my brain works would be "how's it going to look if I pushed ahead with the procedure when I'm uncertain, something went wrong, and then I had to say 'well, the technician told me to do......'". So I'd stop and go get an expert source of advice so that whatever I did was defensible. Because the first thing anyone is going to ask is "why didn't you get help from a doctor??"

Just the way I work. If you want to learn how to do something, you learn from people who are appropriate to teach it.

I don't think telling someone to "stay calm" is inappropriate ever from anyone. That's different. That's just generalized, non-specific advice. God knows I've had techs tell me to relax in surgery. But a tech standing there telling a student how to use a spay hook? Ok, how's that going to play when they rip something with the hook and THEN go get the dvm and have to explain "so the tech was trying to tell me ....." It won't matter how good the tech's advice was, it's going to look bad. Part of a tech not giving specific surgical advice is protecting the tech, not just the student and patient.

I make my cat incisions more caudal than I was taught, because I cut the suspensory in cats instead of digitally breaking it down (so I don't need much exteriorization). The uterus is easy to find/see that way. But if you like a hook - why change? You gotta go with what works for you. I don't think it's "superior" to not use a hook - there's a reason that instrument is in every spay pack. 🙂
 
LetItSnow said:
I guess I tend to play the "how will this play in the newspaper the next day" game a lot in my head. So if I were a student struggling with a spay and uncertain about how to proceed, the way my brain works would be "how's it going to look if I pushed ahead with the procedure when I'm uncertain, something went wrong, and then I had to say 'well, the technician told me to do......'". So I'd stop and go get an expert source of advice so that whatever I did was defensible. Because the first thing anyone is going to ask is "why didn't you get help from a doctor??"

Just the way I work. If you want to learn how to do something, you learn from people who are appropriate to teach it.

I don't think telling someone to "stay calm" is inappropriate ever from anyone. That's different. That's just generalized, non-specific advice. God knows I've had techs tell me to relax in surgery. But a tech standing there telling a student how to use a spay hook? Ok, how's that going to play when they rip something with the hook and THEN go get the dvm and have to explain "so the tech was trying to tell me ....." It won't matter how good the tech's advice was, it's going to look bad. Part of a tech not giving specific surgical advice is protecting the tech, not just the student and patient.

I make my cat incisions more caudal than I was taught, because I cut the suspensory in cats instead of digitally breaking it down (so I don't need much exteriorization). The uterus is easy to find/see that way. But if you like a hook - why change? You gotta go with what works for you. I don't think it's "superior" to not use a hook - there's a reason that instrument is in every spay pack. 🙂
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I just played around with every technique someone taught me for spaying while in vet school trying to find what I liked best. Saw lots on VIN about people using their fingers instead of the hook, but never had someone who actually did it to mimic, and my own attempts were fruitless. Guess my point is just that I'm curious because I found it so unrewarding, but I get the benefit of not somewhat blindly hooking stuff with a metal instrument deep in a belly. :shrug:

Sure it works. But I'm always interested in doing things better. I have a way, but it's not the only way out there and who's gonna say I won't find something I like better eventually.

(And we spay cats similarly, ha. I also cut suspensory).
 
Caiter92 said:
Just kidding, vmh. You're totally honorary c/o 2020. You're just crazier than the rest of us and decided 5 years in grad school sounded like more fun :whistle: 😛
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Well ****, I wasn't kidding :asshat:

She's in my class and I still don't know who she is, and that makes me mad. Therefore I'm not allowed to be nice to her anymore.
 
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