Class of 2021 . . . how ya doin?

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PippyPony said:
I mean.... devil's advocate here -- how much does it really matter? Here at least, you know you're expected somewhere between 6-7am, 6-7 days a week.

Like if they told me to go to radiology first instead of large animal med, it would be like "okie dokie, I guess I will park in the another parking lot". Ultimately the rollercoaster ride has already started and you're not allowed to get off anyways, so time to let go and scream lol

...Although I may be a little more lackadaisical about these things than a lot of people. They actually deleted one of my first rotations because they decided to get rid of it overall, and I still haven't figured out a replacement :whistle: Should probably get on that soon... but meh.
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What dubz said. Also since they said we need to make any and all changes 16 weeks in advance and to not have a schedule in order to make changes... Yeah. I needed it because I absolutely needed an internal med rotation before one of my externships and needed to be able to swap if I didn't have that. One of my best friends ended up having her break schedules two weeks after clinics start, that's super unhelpful we need breaks during NAVLE or boards or when we have a string of difficult rotations and need sleep so she might try to change that. But guess what that's within the 16 week window so she probably won't be able to. It's sucky. It doesn't matter which rotation I go to but it sure matters for planning.

On another note it bothers me on a personal level that they kept stringing us along with "early February" then "mid February" then "late February" then "next week" and finally "by 5pm" and failing to meet each one of their self imposed deadlines. I still don't have my official schedule I had a second year look it up because apparently everyone has access to it but the third years and that's just stupid.
 
PippyPony said:
Ah. Yeah for most rotations we don't get our on call or weekend schedule until the day we start on the rotation. Sooooo we are just advised not to make plans ever. Lol

We do have a doc from the current 4th years listing the typical hours for each service, but they are basically the same for most in-hospital rotations.

Weddings and such are not typically included as excused absences, either. They have us submit a form about 9 months in advance of clinics asking for scheduling considerations (not including externships -- only zoo and lab animal peeps are allowed to schedule those early, and maaaybe humane alliance?), and if we don't list the things on that form, it's up to the mercy of your rotation director at the time.
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We have additional on call than just the rotations. So if I was on radiology and didn't have to work weekends, I might be on call for ER. If I was on neuro, they have on call so I would get my on call schedule when I started neuro. So planning in that sense would be nice too because a lot of times they don't take into consideration if you need to travel for an externship. So I might need to switch on call shifts ahead of time so I can fly.
 
My schedule just got swapped around a bit because a couple of the clinics I was supposed to be going to didn't like my disability accommodations, but at least I have one.

Trying to figure out how I'm going to do a case notebook or whatever. I'm agraphic, so if I try to do it by hand it may be unintelligible even to me, but my tablet is old and slow and I can't exactly afford to replace it before rotations start. Plus it doesn't exactly fit in a labcoat pocket.
 
Coopah said:
On another note it bothers me on a personal level that they kept stringing us along with "early February" then "mid February" then "late February" then "next week" and finally "by 5pm" and failing to meet each one of their self imposed deadlines. I still don't have my official schedule I had a second year look it up because apparently everyone has access to it but the third years and that's just stupid.
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Ok that part is just ruuuuuuude
 
PippyPony said:
Oh I realize it's important for externships, especially ones like zoo med. But if the school lets you schedule externships prior to getting your clinical schedule, then they are kind of making it their problem to switch things around to accommodate you after the fact if they didn't take those into account to begin with.

And I dunno, it just seems like these things tend to work out ok for people -- otherwise it probably would have been changed...? Vet school isn't cheap, if the majority of students were getting screwed over in their careers by sheer administrative incompetence, I would think that would have changed by now.

Again, kind of being devil's advocate and recognize I am seriously loosey-goosey with anything related to time or scheduling (as opposed to most vet students who usually have their **** together more than I do)
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This is her second year running things and things NEED to change. Before things ran smooth as clockwork so this incompetence is super new. We were hoping all the kinks got worked out last year but no, she just screwed up worse last year.
 
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Coopah said:
We have additional on call than just the rotations. So if I was on radiology and didn't have to work weekends, I might be on call for ER. If I was on neuro, they have on call so I would get my on call schedule when I started neuro. So planning in that sense would be nice too because a lot of times they don't take into consideration if you need to travel for an externship. So I might need to switch on call shifts ahead of time so I can fly.
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We do this too, as well as having primary ER shifts on all patient care rotations and we don’t get that schedule until the Friday before a rotation starts :shrug:

That’s awesome they tell you so far in advance, but we make it work even with last minute being told, so I’m sure it’ll be fine in the end. You can probably swap those shifts amongst yourselves if needed, that’s what we do here. Since we can’t request more than one personal day on a rotation (and only have up to 3 max), so if someone needs a Saturday off for an event they either need to have had a vacation block then or swap with someone once we get the weekend schedule. people almost always can find someone to swap them.
 
Caiter92 said:
We do this too, as well as having primary ER shifts on all patient care rotations and we don’t get that schedule until the Friday before a rotation starts :shrug:

That’s awesome they tell you so far in advance, but we make it work even with last minute being told, so I’m sure it’ll be fine in the end. You can probably swap those shifts amongst yourselves if needed, that’s what we do here. Since we can’t request more than one personal day on a rotation (and only have up to 3 max), so if someone needs a Saturday off for an event they either need to have had a vacation block then or swap with someone once we get the weekend schedule. people almost always can find someone to swap them.
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Yup we usually do just swap between ourselves but the lady who assigns them (same lady as the schedule) had so many problems last year because she just put people whenever and then people had an ER shift and were on impatients at the same time. Then they had to swap, except it happened over 50 times and people became less and less willing to swap so she had to start assigning things. Basically it was a nightmare and I'm scared it's gonna happen again.
 
Coopah said:
Yup we usually do just swap between ourselves but the lady who assigns them (same lady as the schedule) had so many problems last year because she just put people whenever and then people had an ER shift and were on impatients at the same time. Then they had to swap, except it happened over 50 times and people became less and less willing to swap so she had to start assigning things. Basically it was a nightmare and I'm scared it's gonna happen again.
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I mean, we have that happen too because it’s assigned so last minute and not by someone who has any idea what responsibilities we’ll have on the rotation that weekend, and it’s fine. Sometimes it’s a **** show, but we’re all on said **** show together.

Not knowing for sure when the school put your externship dates so you can fix them is a lot of bull****. But I feel like if you request X dates and were told they would honor it and then your schedule is messed up, they need to make an exception to that 16 week rescheduling time.
 
I had a rotation cancelled less than a week before it started, and then our scheduler tried to tell me I had to take a vacation block there now because “it wouldn’t be fair since you can’t get added to the on call schedule.” (Remember how we don’t get said on call until the Friday before? Lol at not being able to be added when it wasn’t even out yet). I was like um no, because it would have meant I had all of my vacation two months into clinics. I found a rotation that was open and it all worked out in the end.

So don’t worry guys, even after your schedule comes out they can still try to screw you over :laugh:
 
Caiter92 said:
I had a rotation cancelled less than a week before it started, and then our scheduler tried to tell me I had to take a vacation block there now because “it wouldn’t be fair since you can’t get added to the on call schedule.” (Remember how we don’t get said on call until the Friday before? Lol at not being able to be added when it wasn’t even out yet). I was like um no, because it would have meant I had all of my vacation two months into clinics. I found a rotation that was open and it all worked out in the end.

So don’t worry guys, even after your schedule comes out they can still try to screw you over :laugh:
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Truly this makes me feel better
 
Caiter92 said:
I mean, we have that happen too because it’s assigned so last minute and not by someone who has any idea what responsibilities we’ll have on the rotation that weekend, and it’s fine. Sometimes it’s a **** show, but we’re all on said **** show together.

Not knowing for sure when the school put your externship dates so you can fix them is a lot of bull****. But I feel like if you request X dates and were told they would honor it and then your schedule is messed up, they need to make an exception to that 16 week rescheduling time.
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I agree 100% but the thing is is that we had to put down tentative dates for the externship and I didn't get a response back till well after the deadline so my dates are wrong. I have to use one of my changes and we only get three. Fun aside if a change is rather complicated (likely it will be) they can choose to just use all of your changes in one go. Because that's fair
 
Coopah said:
I agree 100% but the thing is is that we had to put down tentative dates for the externship and I didn't get a response back till well after the deadline so my dates are wrong. I have to use one of my changes and we only get three. Fun aside if a change is rather complicated (likely it will be) they can choose to just use all of your changes in one go. Because that's fair
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Ohhh I misunderstood. I thought you had requested the dates and the school put them wrong. That’s definitely frustrating you didn’t here back until after.
 
Caiter92 said:
Ohhh I misunderstood. I thought you had requested the dates and the school put them wrong. That’s definitely frustrating you didn’t here back until after.
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They've put in place methods to accommodate it because it's not just me it happens every year but in general the system is not efficient to put it mildly :laugh:
 
PippyPony said:
Ah. Yeah for most rotations we don't get our on call or weekend schedule until the day we start on the rotation. Sooooo we are just advised not to make plans ever. Lol

We do have a doc from the current 4th years listing the typical hours for each service, but they are basically the same for most in-hospital rotations.

Weddings and such are not typically included as excused absences, either. They have us submit a form about 9 months in advance of clinics asking for scheduling considerations (not including externships -- only zoo and lab animal peeps are allowed to schedule those early, and maaaybe humane alliance?), and if we don't list the things on that form, it's up to the mercy of your rotation director at the time.
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We don't know for sure which weekend we're on call out of the two week rotations, but we are told in advance which rotations definitely make you work weekends, which may have you come in on weekends if there are patients to bring in, which have weekends off, and which have weekends on call. I think the only weekends we're assigned by the coordinator are when we're on CCU or Urgent Care (or LA emergency if you're in that rotation)
 
Honestly this entire conversation makes me appreciate our fourth year schedule coordinator 1000% more (and I already appreciated her a ton). She's way on top of things and also knows a ton about the rotations themselves, so she can answer a lot of questions/reassure us when we need it.
 
vetmedhead said:
Honestly this entire conversation makes me appreciate our fourth year schedule coordinator 1000% more (and I already appreciated her a ton). She's way on top of things and also knows a ton about the rotations themselves, so she can answer a lot of questions/reassure us when we need it.
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Yeah I already figured out our scheduler was a magic man when he made a 5 way swap within my own schedule work so I could go to Belize, and has worked out a million other things for me, but this just makes me love him even more! Serious vet school MVP.
 
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It'll definitely all work out, I just think it's one of those things about vet school (like vmcas haha) that could be done better in a lot of places. Before we got someone to handle these things as a major part of his job, it was kind of a side additional job for someone that had a lot of other things to do, and there was much more inefficiency and more issues that came up. Fewer complaints from our class than the classes that went through clinics before he was hired. And I'm sure in the grand scheme of things it would have worked out either way, but I'm also sure I'm happier with how things worked out than I would have been if someone less talented and focused on that job were still doing it. It's nice to have one less thing to stress about, you know?
 
PippyPony said:
Oh I realize it's important for externships, especially ones like zoo med. But if the school lets you schedule externships prior to getting your clinical schedule, then they are kind of making it their problem to switch things around to accommodate you after the fact if they didn't take those into account to begin with.

And I dunno, it just seems like these things tend to work out ok for people -- otherwise it probably would have been changed...? Vet school isn't cheap, if the majority of students were getting screwed over in their careers by sheer administrative incompetence, I would think that would have changed by now.

Again, kind of being devil's advocate and recognize I am seriously loosey-goosey with anything related to time or scheduling (as opposed to most vet students who usually have their **** together more than I do)
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I'm someone who likes to plan things a year in advance, so this is very frustrating. Especially since I can't give my parents a definitive date on when they can come visit from across the country with less than a few months notice. Plus I just want to make any changes to my schedule now so I don't have to worry about it later.
 
WildZoo said:
Yeah I already figured out our scheduler was a magic man when he made a 5 way swap within my own schedule work so I could go Belize, and has worked out a million other things for me, but this just makes me love him even more! Serious vet school MVP.
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WildZoo said:
It'll definitely all work out, I just think it's one of those things about vet school (like vmcas haha) that could be done better in a lot of places. Before we got someone to handle these things as a major part of his job, it was kind of a side additional job for someone that had a lot of other things to do, and there was much more inefficiency and more issues that came up. Fewer complaints from our class than the classes that went through clinics before he was hired. And I'm sure in the grand scheme of things it would have worked out either way, but I'm also sure I'm happier with how things worked out than I would have been if someone less talented and focused on that job were still doing it. It's nice to have one less thing to stress about, you know?
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Yeah, our coordinator has been doing this for YEARS so she definitely has the kinks mostly worked out by now. She is also more than happy to move schedules around for us if she's able to, we don't even really need a good reason to move it. I had general surgery for a repeat week this December (basically if there aren't full weeks due to holidays or something you just repeat a couple days of the rotation you're already on instead of switching to a new one) and she switched it to something else for me because I told her I don't like surgery and would prefer to not have to do more of it lol
 
So they released the schedules and they are mostly ok and a little broken. A friend doesn't have a mandatory rotation scheduled, she split one of my rotations in half, and my dates are wrong for some of my externships. *Sigh* I don't like this lady
 
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Coopah said:
A friend doesn't have a mandatory rotation scheduled
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This kinda blows my mind when this happens.

I know our school now uses a manipulatable software system that auto fills stuff for the dude who runs our 4th year scheduling (who is awesome). So if you give him specific dates/blocks you want off for externships/life, he fills that in first for everyone. Then he has the software fill in the mandatory rotations (because we all have the same mandatory rotations). Then he fills in electives from there. So this mishap doesnt happen too often unless someone asks for more off campus than we're allowed and he doesnt catch it, or an actual glitch occurs.
 
Coopah said:
So they released the schedules and they are mostly ok and a little broken. A friend doesn't have a mandatory rotation scheduled, she split one of my rotations in half, and my dates are wrong for some of my externships. *Sigh* I don't like this lady
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What a **** show. I bet with all these mistakes, a lot of schedules are going to change next week. All my rotations are correct, but I got 6 weeks of internal med in an 8 week time period (with derm in the middle). :nailbiting:
 
Coopah said:
I agree 100% but the thing is is that we had to put down tentative dates for the externship and I didn't get a response back till well after the deadline so my dates are wrong. I have to use one of my changes and we only get three. Fun aside if a change is rather complicated (likely it will be) they can choose to just use all of your changes in one go. Because that's fair
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I still don't have 2 externships confirmed. God forbid the dates I put down don't work out for some reason.
 
...I should probably schedule some externships and electives at some point, huh

(I have one, but it's for 2021, and I need about 5-10 more. Oops. I still can't decide what I want to do with my life.)
 
PippyPony said:
...I should probably schedule some externships and electives at some point, huh

(I have one, but it's for 2021, and I need about 5-10 more. Oops. I still can't decide what I want to do with my life.)
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As someone who had all her externships lined up a year in advance people like you make me so nervous! And yet it always seems to work out in the end

Sent from my phone using the mobile app because I bought it and I'm stubborn
 
kcoughli said:
As someone who had all her externships lined up a year in advance people like you make me so nervous! And yet it always seems to work out in the end

Sent from my phone using the mobile app because I bought it and I'm stubborn
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It's funny how much wildly different approaches still get the same end result at the end of the day, haha. I do feel like people with a really clear idea of wanting to go into internships or residencies, especially unique ones, tend to have everything sorted out like two years in advance
 
Well, y'all made me panicked about not having more than one lined up by now, to the point where I almost had a meltdown today... and in doing so, I learned that most of my peers (except the people who have zoo/wildlife interests) have yet to schedule anything at all, and their advisors told them not to worry.

So for anyone who is reading this in the future and also feeling inadequate because they didn't have everything lined up by like second year, you can chillax. 🙂
 
vetmedhead said:
It's funny how much wildly different approaches still get the same end result at the end of the day, haha. I do feel like people with a really clear idea of wanting to go into internships or residencies, especially unique ones, tend to have everything sorted out like two years in advance
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I mean, maybe, but this is not the only way. I asked about the ideal road to internship and residency when I interviewed for vet school and have had it in mind all 3 years.

But one of the benefits of going to a school that doesn't track is that we get to explore options. And as someone who already made multiple career changes to even get here, I almost feel it is a disservice to my future self to pigeonhole myself into a field before I've even officially hit clinics.

Would suck a whole lot to realize at the end of this thing that I optimized for a career that isn't going to be fulfilling at the expense of exploring something else I didn't know I would enjoy.

So, my original specialty of choice is still hanging out in the back of my mind, but I want to give all of this stuff a fair shot first (if that makes sense).
 
PippyPony said:
Well, y'all made me panicked about not having more than one lined up by now, to the point where I almost had a meltdown today... and in doing so, I learned that most of my peers (except the people who have zoo/wildlife interests) have yet to schedule anything at all, and their advisors told them not to worry.

So for anyone who is reading this in the future and also feeling inadequate because they didn't have everything lined up by like second year, you can chillax. 🙂
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Must be different at Tufts. We literally have to have any and all externships by Nov 4th or we're not going. I don't think anybody means for anybody else to panic but at some schools you do need to have things lined up early.
 
Coopah said:
Must be different at Tufts. We literally have to have any and all externships by Nov 4th or we're not going. I don't think anybody means for anybody else to panic but at some schools you do need to have things lined up early.
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Yup, it is very different for us. We start externship/elective/vacation blocks as early as two weeks from now, and do not finish them until May 2021. All of late Feb/March/April/early May 2021 is devoted to externships and elective time.

Edit: oh, upon re-read I'm not sure if you mean you had to have them all submitted to the school by Nov of 3rd year. If that's the case, then yes -- it is actually the complete opposite process here. We are not allowed to contact externships until Nov of 3rd year unless they are highly competitive ones like zoos or humane alliance, and even then we need special permission. Like, my friend got one at Dove before we had our clinical lottery, and the scheduling coordinator scolded her and actually almost made her cancel it & reapply later.
 
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But like seriously... minor grump at making me feel like I missed a homework assignment that everyone else in the country knew about last year & didn't bother to tell me about 🙁
 
PippyPony said:
Yup, it is very different for us. We start externship/elective/vacation blocks as early as two weeks from now, and do not finish them until May 2021. All of late Feb/March/April/early May 2021 is devoted to externships and elective time.

Edit: oh, upon re-read I'm not sure if you mean you had to have them all submitted to the school by Nov of 3rd year. If that's the case, then yes -- it is actually the complete opposite process here. We are not allowed to contact externships until Nov of 3rd year unless they are highly competitive ones like zoos or humane alliance, and even then we need special permission. Like, my friend got one at Dove before we had our clinical lottery, and the scheduling coordinator scolded her and actually almost made her cancel it & reapply later.
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Yes I meant we have to have them to the school by that time. Weird
 
PippyPony said:
But like seriously... minor grump at making me feel like I missed a homework assignment that everyone else in the country knew about last year & didn't bother to tell me about 🙁
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Not sure why you're grumping at us? It's a very different process apparently and certainly not one was trying to make you feel poorly about it 🙂. Those of us who responded to your comments stated how it was for us and none if us were shaming you, sorry you feel that way.
 
PippyPony said:
I mean, maybe, but this is not the only way. I asked about the ideal road to internship and residency when I interviewed for vet school and have had it in mind all 3 years.

But one of the benefits of going to a school that doesn't track is that we get to explore options. And as someone who already made multiple career changes to even get here, I almost feel it is a disservice to my future self to pigeonhole myself into a field before I've even officially hit clinics.

Would suck a whole lot to realize at the end of this thing that I optimized for a career that isn't going to be fulfilling at the expense of exploring something else I didn't know I would enjoy.

So, my original specialty of choice is still hanging out in the back of my mind, but I want to give all of this stuff a fair shot first (if that makes sense).
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I wasn't clear enough in my original post, as I was referring to people who had lasered in on a very specific post-DVM intended path and never waivered from it during school

Meanwhile I am picking up specialty interests left and right. Literally just discovered a new one I love last week, so I am really good at making choices and definitely know what I want to be when I grow up
 
PippyPony said:
All of late Feb/March/April/early May 2021 is devoted to externships and elective time.
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see, the majority of my externships are before September, and ALL are before January, so I had to have mine booked or they’re already booked, considering we’re just over 2 months away from my first externship, and the ones I wanted are competitive.

so I wouldn’t feel bad for not knowing or having anything booked. But also don’t try to make those who do have things booked feel bad for having things we’re excited about.
 
We're expected to have paperwork for an externship submitted 6 weeks before the start date. I set up one externship right away but my other probable two arent until fall/next spring so I haven't bothered. Part of it is being undecided and the other part was waiting to see if any electives I wanted opened up at school during the blocks I had free (which something did).

I probably won't leave it down to the wire but I know a classmate who set up an externship 6 weeks in advance on the dot. :laugh:
 
cdoconn said:
see, the majority of my externships are before September, and ALL are before January, so I had to have mine booked or they’re already booked, considering we’re just over 2 months away from my first externship, and the ones I wanted are competitive.

so I wouldn’t feel bad for not knowing or having anything booked. But also don’t try to make those who do have things booked feel bad for having things we’re excited about.
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Same. All my externships are before December.

We just have to have our externship approved 30 days out, but I have a pretty specific career interest, so most of mine were scheduled last fall.
 
I’m pretty sure when I was on clinics my school only required paperwork about where you were going the rotation before you were leaving...so 3 weeks notice. I definitely had classmates who arranged things that close, but most arranged things a few months in advance. I didn’t feel like there was a huge push to schedule early, but not a whole lot of my classmates specialized so maybe that played in.
 
On the flip side, I had classmates contacting clinics in Feb last year after our schedules came that were 6 months plus in advance, and be told to contact them again when it was sooner to ask :laugh:
 
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PippyPony said:
Yup, it is very different for us. We start externship/elective/vacation blocks as early as two weeks from now, and do not finish them until May 2021. All of late Feb/March/April/early May 2021 is devoted to externships and elective time.

Edit: oh, upon re-read I'm not sure if you mean you had to have them all submitted to the school by Nov of 3rd year. If that's the case, then yes -- it is actually the complete opposite process here. We are not allowed to contact externships until Nov of 3rd year unless they are highly competitive ones like zoos or humane alliance, and even then we need special permission. Like, my friend got one at Dove before we had our clinical lottery, and the scheduling coordinator scolded her and actually almost made her cancel it & reapply later.
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We are...somewhere in the middle lol I'm pretty sure we can schedule our externships whenever we want, if we happen to schedule them before receiving our clinics schedule then the school can't guarantee that they'll be able to accommodate it, but they will try (and to my knowledge no one had any issues with that this year). I had my externships scheduled a year or more ahead of time because zoo, but many of my classmates scheduled things as close as 2 months (which is kind of the cutoff if it isn't an already approved externship site).
 
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