England - Game Thread

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I don't really plan on adjusting to 36/12s. I'm gonna play this game out because I like the theme but I don't think I'm doing long cycles ever again. On that note, my planned game is not going to be long cycles so idek if people want me to run it (but I'll take that discussion to the future games thread).


Can you elaborate? Especially re:Zenge since all I said was I didn't understand the vote (and no one ever explained it to me).


Why do I even bother playing? All this time and I'm still getting wolf read for things I do every single game. I have almost never come put with a bunch of contribution or reads in early game. Exceptions being when I actually had good info.

It's ridiculous to me that other people (like DocE just to name the first one I can think of not pick on him) get everyone who has played with them jumping up to talk about their play is typical for them and NAI but no matter how long I play that connection never seems to get made for me. And I'm really getting sick of being put under fire for the same thing over and over. The only reason I have to talk about how I play is because I keep getting asked about it. At any rate, there's zero chance of me becoming player who comes into the game swinging on D1 so is there any reason for me to keep playing?


Anyways, second post incoming with my thoughts right now.
I don't expect you to post entire reads lists at all, but yes after 45 pages of posts I do expect you to have a thought or two, or a few interactions that I can actually evaluate
 
Someone discuss with me whether it's more likely for wolf LIS or village LIS to be like " :shrug: I've got no response to your suspicion"

What response would you like me to have? Your argument is purely meta, and based on 1 game recently after several years hiatus and presumably your memory from meta back then.

Meta is always iffy to begin with, and you're going off that. I don't know how to respond to it. If you think I'm "not committed" (or whatever words you used; not trying to put words in your mouth, but that was the gist of it), then I'm just going to say ok and let you push it as hard as you want.

I get real bummed about that kind of meta because it's sooooo influenced by real life, how the game is going, what the theme is, etc. There are (were) games I'm SUPER into. There are (were) games I'm less into. It doesn't, as far as I can recall, have much to do with my alignment, because I basically play the same game either way.

In this game, the first few days of "everybody is being mean!" really turned me off. AM's continued bullying is still turning me off, and it's making me regret playing because arguing and fighting is part of the game, but outright bullying is not, and my personal opinion is that AM is out into the 'bullying' end of things. There's a hazy subjective line between fun fighting and bullying admittedly, but I doubt I'll play any future games with AM in them. Maybe a speed game where I can just sit down for an evening and play, but ....

So yeah, I'm a bit meh.

Do with it what you will, for real. I don't care.
 
Like what I'm saying @finnickthedog is that day 2 in a 36/12 is hardly the same as day 2 in a 12/12 unless you're strictly relying on night results. What have you done that you think I should be village reading you for?
 
What response would you like me to have? Your argument is purely meta, and based on 1 game recently after several years hiatus and presumably your memory from meta back then.

Meta is always iffy to begin with, and you're going off that. I don't know how to respond to it. If you think I'm "not committed" (or whatever words you used; not trying to put words in your mouth, but that was the gist of it), then I'm just going to say ok and let you push it as hard as you want.

I get real bummed about that kind of meta because it's sooooo influenced by real life, how the game is going, what the theme is, etc. There are (were) games I'm SUPER into. There are (were) games I'm less into. It doesn't, as far as I can recall, have much to do with my alignment, because I basically play the same game either way.

In this game, the first few days of "everybody is being mean!" really turned me off. AM's continued bullying is still turning me off, and it's making me regret playing because arguing and fighting is part of the game, but outright bullying is not, and my personal opinion is that AM is out into the 'bullying' end of things. There's a hazy subjective line between fun fighting and bullying admittedly, but I doubt I'll play any future games with AM in them. Maybe a speed game where I can just sit down for an evening and play, but ....

So yeah, I'm a bit meh.

Do with it what you will, for real. I don't care.
It's not that I want you to have any particular response and I wasn't shading you for it. It truly is that your response caught me off guard and I just wanted others' opinions on it because I'm not sure how to read it.
 
What response would you like me to have? Your argument is purely meta, and based on 1 game recently after several years hiatus and presumably your memory from meta back then.

Meta is always iffy to begin with, and you're going off that. I don't know how to respond to it. If you think I'm "not committed" (or whatever words you used; not trying to put words in your mouth, but that was the gist of it), then I'm just going to say ok and let you push it as hard as you want.

I get real bummed about that kind of meta because it's sooooo influenced by real life, how the game is going, what the theme is, etc. There are (were) games I'm SUPER into. There are (were) games I'm less into. It doesn't, as far as I can recall, have much to do with my alignment, because I basically play the same game either way.

In this game, the first few days of "everybody is being mean!" really turned me off. AM's continued bullying is still turning me off, and it's making me regret playing because arguing and fighting is part of the game, but outright bullying is not, and my personal opinion is that AM is out into the 'bullying' end of things. There's a hazy subjective line between fun fighting and bullying admittedly, but I doubt I'll play any future games with AM in them. Maybe a speed game where I can just sit down for an evening and play, but ....

So yeah, I'm a bit meh.

Do with it what you will, for real. I don't care.
Not that I don't value your own opinion but you understand why I would want outside perspectives 😉
 
Not that I don't value your own opinion but you understand why I would want outside perspectives 😉

Yes, I do. I almost tacked on "I know you didn't ask me, but I feel a right to respond" but then decided it kinda went without saying.

*shrug*
 
Day Two - Keep Calm and WW On - Vote Tally

AM (0) -
Alissa (1) - AM
Zenge (1) - Cray
Bobloblaw (1) - Ms P
Viscernable (4) - dina, cyndia, capri, sunshine
LIS (1) - Dubz
Mayo (0) -
Sunshine (1) - LIS
DocEspana (1) - Mayo
WZ (1) - DocE
Dina (1) - samac
Finn (1) - genny

13/24 players voting
Voting closes in 10.5 hours I think?
 
Wildzoo
Mgk
sunnyFL.

Anyone have feel particularly suspicious on any of them. I think one of them needs to die. Unfortunately at work so can't explain it a ton. Also my reasoning is, honestly, VERY much a gut feeling and just a combination of all my "positive and negative" tallies after learning some identities on the spreadsheet. So let's leave it at I don't believe telemarketing kill was random or on a whim.

Aka I am willing to listen to others opinions to a degree on this because I know I *want* WZ dead but mgk makes more sense to me likelihood wise (but only slightly) and sunnyFL is acting very odd but idk her from a hole in the wall but we already had that one odd interaction.
I need a lot more from mkg personally.
 
I held off on voting until after work D1 and haven't voted yet D2 because I'm really struggling to find wolves this game. Everyone I find that has done something that pinged me has only a few wolf points and has also done things that felt village. I just finished class today and have homework I really need to do and work until 9 EST (unlikely to be able to sneak on my phone since I'm on the front desk with my boss), so trying to keep reading and finally figure out someone I feel good about voting isn't a realistic option. I'm going to vote for MsP because it feels like she was fishing for people to speculate on whether SAR was royalty yesterday (looking for people to dump sus on for the SAR kill?), her posts about whether the Queen was in the game pinged me (again seemed like trying to fish for info and draw people into speculation that could look damning; the tone on them was off/performative and her reasoning on "the Queen can't be in the game because losing her would be automatic village loss" made no sense to me). The angleshooting gives me pause because I don't feel like a wolf would want to draw so much negative attention to themself, if they get Bob misyeeted it looks REAL bad for them, and I can't imagine a bus of that magnitude. I am wondering if wolf 3p hunting, though. She may truly suspect he's in a group PM with a competing faction, if she's in a pack that she knows has too few members to be the only antivillage group.

vote MsP
 
I'd like to see more from alissa. I do still think popping onto the thread to ask if people had questions for her and the subsequent follow up was strange. No one other than alissa herself seemed to jump in and say "oh yeah, alissa does this all the time".

Regarding samac's theory... I will say that after some google I do think my role fits well in the North. That said, I recall DocE stating his role didn't best fit with his location and I also recall at least a few people who were very skeptical about the idea of locations being meaningful and I'm inclined to assume that at least some of those people don't fit perfectly into their starting locations either or I'd expect them to be more open to the theory.

If samac is correct then AM has to be a wolf. I've never been able to read her and think she acts relatively the same no matter what role she's playing so it wouldn't surprise me.

But I would be surprised if a mod set up a game in which she gave strong hints about what role performed which action and put all the roles in their correct starting location. That strikes me as an unusual set up.

Is there a reason MsP is still voting for Bobloblaw considering how weak her "I caught a wolf" ended up being?

I have several people I am feeling good about right now.


I don't expect you to post entire reads lists at all, but yes after 45 pages of posts I do expect you to have a thought or two, or a few interactions that I can actually evaluate
45 pages of posts is still a cycle and half. The fact that you guys dragged this out into 36 hours makes me want to participate less (because I'm mentally exhausted) not more. I was actually pretty active--for me--over the last cycle. I took yesterday off because of the fatique. I made it clear that I intended to contribute today.

And the high post volume makes everything more difficult for me to assess. Feels a little like a vet school lecture where they're just hitting me with a firehouse of information and then I have to determine which parts are important. Except I only get like a day to do it.

Also, this reasoning has been a common theme in almost every game that I've played so you can't just say it's about the 45 pages.

Like what I'm saying @finnickthedog is that day 2 in a 36/12 is hardly the same as day 2 in a 12/12 unless you're strictly relying on night results. What have you done that you think I should be village reading you for?

And I think it's worse, not better. Just because you prefer it, doesn't mean I'm going to feel the same way about it.

I didn't complain about the fact that you weren't village reading me. If you want my honest opinion, I think you should be neutral reading me. I complained about the fact that you are wolf reading me again for the same exact reasons that people always wolf read me.

I mean if you want to talk about not contributing AMs typical play style is to aggressively question everyone else but be evasive and refuse to explain herself. I don't feel she's contributed anything of value in the last cycle and a half. But we all just go "oh, typical AM, NAI".

Should I try that strategy instead? Will that finally fix this broken record?


I like this theme, so I'd really like to keep playing but I'm taking a break. Constantly being accosted for my play style isn't fun.
 
I held off on voting until after work D1 and haven't voted yet D2 because I'm really struggling to find wolves this game. Everyone I find that has done something that pinged me has only a few wolf points and has also done things that felt village. I just finished class today and have homework I really need to do and work until 9 EST (unlikely to be able to sneak on my phone since I'm on the front desk with my boss), so trying to keep reading and finally figure out someone I feel good about voting isn't a realistic option. I'm going to vote for MsP because it feels like she was fishing for people to speculate on whether SAR was royalty yesterday (looking for people to dump sus on for the SAR kill?), her posts about whether the Queen was in the game pinged me (again seemed like trying to fish for info and draw people into speculation that could look damning; the tone on them was off/performative and her reasoning on "the Queen can't be in the game because losing her would be automatic village loss" made no sense to me). The angleshooting gives me pause because I don't feel like a wolf would want to draw so much negative attention to themself, if they get Bob misyeeted it looks REAL bad for them, and I can't imagine a bus of that magnitude. I am wondering if wolf 3p hunting, though. She may truly suspect he's in a group PM with a competing faction, if she's in a pack that she knows has too few members to be the only antivillage group.

vote MsP

3P often don't even have a group so it would be weird for MsP to jump to the conclusion that he was in a group PM with a competing faction.
Also, if she is a wolf I'd expect her to bring this up to the pack first and it would be even weirder for all the wolves to think that made sense and let her run with it.

I think MsP is likely village and it was just bad play.
 
I'd like to see more from alissa. I do still think popping onto the thread to ask if people had questions for her and the subsequent follow up was strange. No one other than alissa herself seemed to jump in and say "oh yeah, alissa does this all the time".

Regarding samac's theory... I will say that after some google I do think my role fits well in the North. That said, I recall DocE stating his role didn't best fit with his location and I also recall at least a few people who were very skeptical about the idea of locations being meaningful and I'm inclined to assume that at least some of those people don't fit perfectly into their starting locations either or I'd expect them to be more open to the theory.

If samac is correct then AM has to be a wolf. I've never been able to read her and think she acts relatively the same no matter what role she's playing so it wouldn't surprise me.

But I would be surprised if a mod set up a game in which she gave strong hints about what role performed which action and put all the roles in their correct starting location. That strikes me as an unusual set up.

Is there a reason MsP is still voting for Bobloblaw considering how weak her "I caught a wolf" ended up being?

I have several people I am feeling good about right now.



45 pages of posts is still a cycle and half. The fact that you guys dragged this out into 36 hours makes me want to participate less (because I'm mentally exhausted) not more. I was actually pretty active--for me--over the last cycle. I took yesterday off because of the fatique. I made it clear that I intended to contribute today.

And the high post volume makes everything more difficult for me to assess. Feels a little like a vet school lecture where they're just hitting me with a firehouse of information and then I have to determine which parts are important. Except I only get like a day to do it.

Also, this reasoning has been a common theme in almost every game that I've played so you can't just say it's about the 45 pages.



And I think it's worse, not better. Just because you prefer it, doesn't mean I'm going to feel the same way about it.

I didn't complain about the fact that you weren't village reading me. If you want my honest opinion, I think you should be neutral reading me. I complained about the fact that you are wolf reading me again for the same exact reasons that people always wolf read me.

I mean if you want to talk about not contributing AMs typical play style is to aggressively question everyone else but be evasive and refuse to explain herself. I don't feel she's contributed anything of value in the last cycle and a half. But we all just go "oh, typical AM, NAI".

Should I try that strategy instead? Will that finally fix this broken record?


I like this theme, so I'd really like to keep playing but I'm taking a break. Constantly being accosted for my play style isn't fun.
I'm not accosting you and I don't understand why you think I am. I literally said in the read that you were just on the wolf side of neutral. I'm not even voting for you.
 
3P often don't even have a group so it would be weird for MsP to jump to the conclusion that he was in a group PM with a competing faction.
Also, if she is a wolf I'd expect her to bring this up to the pack first and it would be even weirder for all the wolves to think that made sense and let her run with it.

I think MsP is likely village and it was just bad play.
I agree that it's unlikely, but at this point for me everyone either has nothing that really pings wolf or also has something that makes wolfing seem unlikely.
 


Arise, good people of England.
Prepare to defend Queen and Country!



Like I said, it's a bit hard to defend someone in the game.
I held off on voting until after work D1 and haven't voted yet D2 because I'm really struggling to find wolves this game. Everyone I find that has done something that pinged me has only a few wolf points and has also done things that felt village. I just finished class today and have homework I really need to do and work until 9 EST (unlikely to be able to sneak on my phone since I'm on the front desk with my boss), so trying to keep reading and finally figure out someone I feel good about voting isn't a realistic option. I'm going to vote for MsP because it feels like she was fishing for people to speculate on whether SAR was royalty yesterday (looking for people to dump sus on for the SAR kill?), her posts about whether the Queen was in the game pinged me (again seemed like trying to fish for info and draw people into speculation that could look damning; the tone on them was off/performative and her reasoning on "the Queen can't be in the game because losing her would be automatic village loss" made no sense to me). The angleshooting gives me pause because I don't feel like a wolf would want to draw so much negative attention to themself, if they get Bob misyeeted it looks REAL bad for them, and I can't imagine a bus of that magnitude. I am wondering if wolf 3p hunting, though. She may truly suspect he's in a group PM with a competing faction, if she's in a pack that she knows has too few members to be the only antivillage group.

vote MsP

It wasn't speculation if you were paying attention to the game. Plus she was killed and her role was revealed. You can't speculate on whether or not SAR was royalty when it was already revealed.
 
Unyeet AM
Yeet Dina


because as I’m thinking about a comparison with when I last wolfed Dina would come in say a few things and was a relatively low poster and she skated by to end game like that.
I agree there are some similarities, and I would definitely like to see more, but overall there’s some subtle differences that have me village reading her.

In Ggoats her content was a bit more cautious and flighty. I think her content this game has been a lot firmer in her positions. It’s subtle, but it’s definitely there if you’re looking for it.
 
Unyeet AM
Yeet Dina


because as I’m thinking about a comparison with when I last wolfed Dina would come in say a few things and was a relatively low poster and she skated by to end game like that.

I got called out for popping in and out in emojis (by a wolf no less). It's NAI for me.

Bioshock was a long game and it took a lot out of me. I probably would've sat this one out, but I love Pippy games. I'm trying to keep my endurance up. I prefer 36/12, but the games do last a long time and I get WW burn out.

I’m also moving alley a little more to the wolfy side of neutral after last night

Excuse my ignorance but there are a lot of pages. What happened last night?
 
I held off on voting until after work D1 and haven't voted yet D2 because I'm really struggling to find wolves this game. Everyone I find that has done something that pinged me has only a few wolf points and has also done things that felt village. I just finished class today and have homework I really need to do and work until 9 EST (unlikely to be able to sneak on my phone since I'm on the front desk with my boss), so trying to keep reading and finally figure out someone I feel good about voting isn't a realistic option. I'm going to vote for MsP because it feels like she was fishing for people to speculate on whether SAR was royalty yesterday (looking for people to dump sus on for the SAR kill?), her posts about whether the Queen was in the game pinged me (again seemed like trying to fish for info and draw people into speculation that could look damning; the tone on them was off/performative and her reasoning on "the Queen can't be in the game because losing her would be automatic village loss" made no sense to me). The angleshooting gives me pause because I don't feel like a wolf would want to draw so much negative attention to themself, if they get Bob misyeeted it looks REAL bad for them, and I can't imagine a bus of that magnitude. I am wondering if wolf 3p hunting, though. She may truly suspect he's in a group PM with a competing faction, if she's in a pack that she knows has too few members to be the only antivillage group.

vote MsP
This post makes me feel better about Vis. Not sure if I agree with the conclusion on MsP but...it's a fair alternate interpretation. And the beginning feels honest.
 
Like I said, it's a bit hard to defend someone in the game.


It wasn't speculation if you were paying attention to the game. Plus she was killed and her role was revealed. You can't speculate on whether or not SAR was royalty when it was already revealed.

While it was something anyone paying attention could have guessed at, I do remember you bringing this up and highlighting it on thread before her death? Which wasn’t ideal because I’m guessing if the wolves happened to overlook it, they figured it out after that.

But that being said I have msp leaning village from that interaction with bob, but still need to catch up on a lot of stuff. Yikes, taking yesterday off was a mistake there are so many pages...
 
This post makes me feel better about Vis. Not sure if I agree with the conclusion on MsP but...it's a fair alternate interpretation. And the beginning feels honest.
How many games has Vis played and how familiar are they with 3P roles? Because I think it could be a fair interpretation if they're less familiar with it. Less so if they're familiar with 3P roles.

3P can have a group but it so often doesn't that this would be a really weird way to 3P hunt.
 
This post makes me feel better about Vis. Not sure if I agree with the conclusion on MsP but...it's a fair alternate interpretation. And the beginning feels honest.

I totally understand real life happens and keeps people busy but the posts I’ve seen so far just aren’t on par with visc’s usual level of analysis. I remember being impressed with many posts in earlier games and I’m not necessarily getting the same vibes now. So happy leaving my vote put for the moment until I get a chance to read more.
 
How many games has Vis played and how familiar are they with 3P roles? Because I think it could be a fair interpretation if they're less familiar with it. Less so if they're familiar with 3P roles.

3P can have a group but it so often doesn't that this would be a really weird way to 3P hunt.
No not that new. We’re from the same noob game and there were a fair number of 3Ps
 
While it was something anyone paying attention could have guessed at, I do remember you bringing this up and highlighting it on thread before her death? Which wasn’t ideal because I’m guessing if the wolves happened to overlook it, they figured it out after that.

But that being said I have msp leaning village from that interaction with bob, but still need to catch up on a lot of stuff. Yikes, taking yesterday off was a mistake there are so many pages...
I never mentioned SAR before her death
 
I don’t care for the Vis wagon. I didn’t like the last minute April vote, but Vissy’s explanation read genuine to me, and it seems like it’s probably easy misyeet bait, and it’s got a lot of momentum happing without any resistance. That scares me a bit.

I still maintain from my previous post that I think there’s a wolf hiding in those low posters. MKG’s village play, even though we haven’t seen her play too many games is usually a lot more active than this. She was on FIRE in goats. The one time I saw her wolf in the speed game (Harry Potter?) she was also using a low post “fly under the radar” strategy.

This is the most recent only real reads post of substance she’s got, and it’s incredibly sparse. Devoid of any real detail or analysis. Missing most players.
So the only other people that had more than one vote were:
AM (3) - alissa, TME, SAR
Alissa (2) - finn, capri
Zenge (3) - genny, sunshine, cray
sunshine (3) - LIS, VMH, Barks

Some things that stand out to me about each:
AM - kinda reading village based on tone/questions, but some things have pinged me: she has led a yeet against Alissa D2 in every game I've played with her which is kinda weird, & had back and forth with Alissa but left her vote on Stagg, before placing a contingency yeet on Alissa for D2
Alissa - full disclosure, I get her mixed up with Alley, but from doing a quick iso and skimming I feel ok about her right now, pretty much neutral
Zenge - I dont think he's acting very similar to when he was a wolf in bioshock, but I wouldnt say this is normal village zenge either. I dont really trust my own reads after getting pocketed last time, but right now he's on the lower end of the neutral pile, closer to wolf lean
Sunny - I have her tentatively in village leans, I think her frustration was genuine, and her content posts have added to the discussion well
It’s just not even remotely what we saw in Goats or Bioshock.

So I think for me today I’m going to see where this goes.

Yeet MKG
 
How many games has Vis played and how familiar are they with 3P roles? Because I think it could be a fair interpretation if they're less familiar with it. Less so if they're familiar with 3P roles.

3P can have a group but it so often doesn't that this would be a really weird way to 3P hunt.
Not sure on exact number of games but this nooblet crew had a cult in their first game, and also just last game there were two 3p pairs.
 
I totally understand real life happens and keeps people busy but the posts I’ve seen so far just aren’t on par with visc’s usual level of analysis. I remember being impressed with many posts in earlier games and I’m not necessarily getting the same vibes now. So happy leaving my vote put for the moment until I get a chance to read more.
I guess I just feel like wolf vis didn't have that hard of a time coming up with reads. Weaker analysis, sure, but she was perfectly able to come up with something.
 
Not sure how I feel about it. I still think it's okay for him to be pressured though due to how different it is than the last game.
How are you feeling about barks?
 
Day Two - Keep Calm and WW On - Vote Tally

AM (0) -
Alissa (1) - AM
Zenge (1) - Cray
Bobloblaw (1) - Ms P
Viscernable (4) - dina, cyndia, capri, sunshine
LIS (1) - Dubz
Mayo (0) -
Sunshine (1) - LIS
DocEspana (1) - Mayo
WZ (1) - DocE
Dina (1) - samac
Finn (1) - genny
Ms P (1) - viscernable
MKG (2) - barks, zenge

16/24 players voting
Voting closes in < 9 hours

*Please check your votes...I feel as though my tally might be off*
 
I'll probably move if it continues to stay at just one vote much longer. I have other POE members on the board I can be supporting.
How are you feeling about vis now?
 
Can you expand on why? I don't remember you stating it or interacting with her much beyond a couple questions late Monday.
It's a combination of discomfort from voting so late (due to lack of wolfreads?), mentioning April could be fake claiming, followed by saying she move if a better wagon option came up.
 
It's a combination of discomfort from voting so late (due to lack of wolfreads?), mentioning April could be fake claiming, followed by saying she move if a better wagon option came up.
That last part is probably what would bothers me most. I don't blame her for the fake claim bit since I had the same possibility in my head.

I am kind of uncomfy with the people voting for her though, outside of sunny.

Any idea how you're feeling about cyndia?
 
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