England - Game Thread

[DocEspana]

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Fair enough it wasn't obvious, but seems you're smart enough to ask the next question that gets begged about actively opening vs passively.

I don't put it past you to play obtusely to appear more harmless or fangless than you actually are, is my concern.

I think I said the same thing earlier about a different point. I work under the assumption that a mod doesnt lie to me. If they say something, I take it at face value. If the wording is ambiguous then I'm going to straight up tell the mod I plan to bend those rules just short of breaking them unless they clarify their wording.

I know I'm a wrecking ball with good situational awareness of what happened around my wreckage - but still a wrecking ball. I dont need to "play dumb" about rules nor should I try to play dumb about anything. I will make enough mistakes while being driven by instincts to pounce and pounce hard (see, missing the shorty-mayo switch), I dont need to fake new mistakes.

 

[Crayola227]

@samac

Did Mkg open this PM with you? I’m hoping you have a better read on her because of it and if so you can share your thoughts.

To date, she’s only made 26 posts on the thread in total, and I’m having a hard time reading her with so little to go off of.

What's crazy is that number is a lot higher than what it subjectively feels like. Which means she's posted but it hasn't made an impression on me, like saying a whole lotta nothing. Visc did that in the one game I read her as wolf despite VCA (and yes cleared her anyway) and in any case, when someone is participating but that's the feeling you get it isn't a good sign.

 

[Crayola227]

Are roles affiliation indicative? Are we sure all royals are village?

Nope we're not sure. I suspect not.

 

[DocEspana]

So I guess I'm back to the previous thought. I dont think the kill of the iron lady was chance. Strikes me as someone getting rid of a chat partner. But whooooooom.

Back to work for real

 

[Zenge142]

What's crazy is that number is a lot higher than what it subjectively feels like. Which means she's posted but it hasn't made an impression on me, like saying a whole lotta nothing. Visc did that in the one game I read her as wolf despite VCA (and yes cleared her anyway) and in any case, when someone is participating but that's the feeling you get it isn't a good sign.

26 was total posts too including fluff. I mentioned this elsewhere but it’s actually only 19 of actual content. I guess 20 now with her latest post, but we’re at 2300 posts. That’s less than 1% of the total. What I’m calling “content” is sparse too.

 

[finnickthedog]

I think I said the same thing earlier about a different point. I work under the assumption that a mod doesnt lie to me. If they say something, I take it at face value. If the wording is ambiguous then I'm going to straight up tell the mod I plan to bend those rules just short of breaking them unless they clarify their wording.

I know I'm a wrecking ball with good situational awareness of what happened around my wreckage - but still a wrecking ball. I dont need to "play dumb" about rules nor should I try to play dumb about anything. I will make enough mistakes while being driven by instincts to pounce and pounce hard (see, missing the shorty-mayo switch), I dont need to fake new mistakes.

I had to go back to figure through multiple quotes to figure out the context here but it's the "number of people you can PM" thing, yes?

I understand your interpretation, but it was asked and clarified on thread on page one what the PM rules were because I had questions about it myself. I don't think you're playing dumb because I wouldn't expect that from you, but missing things (this, the sub, and I feel like there was some other thing) is starting to feel like a common theme for you this game.

 

[samac]

So I guess I'm back to the previous thought. I dont think the kill of the iron lady was chance. Strikes me as someone getting rid of a chat partner. But whooooooom.

Back to work for real

If you think that’s true it could only be Finn or AM as the only ones who were left in the north.

Edit: never mind me. Use names dammit. It clicked with me after that Thatcher is the Iron Lady.

 

[finnickthedog]

If you think that’s true it could only be Finn or AM as the only ones who were left in the north.

He's talking about Enigma...

 

[samac]

Full disclosure, I was TE’s PM partner choice. Alley had one open with her.
Edit : I take it back. Alley was with sunny. I don’t think anyone else had a PM with her but me.

 

[samac]

He's talking about Enigma...

Yeah see my edit. It clicked after I posted.

 

[Zenge142]

I’m checking in from the barn again, just a quick update:
I have my notes for my Alissa iso on my laptop, and I have not gotten to her interactions with AM yet, but so far she seems pro-village.
for everyone thinking that I’m inactive, your correct, I spread myself a bit thin this week between this, the game night and speed game over the weekend and IRL things going on. I’ve been at the barn since 9 and probably won’t be back home till 5, I had to have the vet out for one of my mares. I will happily share more reads later, but you need to be patient with me if you want more in depth thoughts. I didn’t realize single votes fell under the term wagon yesterday so that’s why I didn’t share my thoughts on those votes. And it honestly drives me crazy that people think it’s weird I’m not playing the same as in ggoats. The same thing came up in bio shock. I don’t think you can consider that my meta as I’d like to think I’ve improved or adjusted my play style since my first game.

You are right that it’s not fair to hold you to the standard of what you were doing at the end of Goats. I get that with my end of Emojis play sometimes and I understand where you’re coming from completely. But the rest of goats was different play than what we’re seeing here.

Even if we ignore goats your Bioshock play was different too. I’m hoping when I’m not swamped at work to take a closer look at Bioshock MKG at least and have more concrete examples to compare and contrast, but in general, it’s not just the lack of content. It’s not just that you’re not who you were at the end of goats. It’s that I look through your posts, and I can’t honestly say that I feel like you’re fighting for village, or playing in a pro village way.

I encourage everyone else to do their own iso here because it’s not very long.

Also, I’m not moving DocE out of my POE, but all the other people who know him and have played with him before, people I trust and I’m reading as village by the way, are saying that what I’m reading as wolfy is just DocE being himself.

So let’s assume I’m wrong. Let’s assume for the sake of argument DocE isn’t a wolf. Then your being the last one on that wagon is pretty sketch. We’ve been looking a lot at the April wagon because we know she flipped village, but maybe it’s worth looking at the DocE wagon too.

 

[PippyPony]

Day Two - Keep Calm and WW On - Vote Tally

AM (0) -
Alissa (1) - AM
Zenge (1) - Cray
Bobloblaw (1) - Ms P
Viscernable (4) - dina, cyndia, capri, sunshine
LIS (1) -
Mayo (0) -
Sunshine (1) - LIS
DocEspana (1) - Mayo
WZ (0) -
Dina (1) - samac
Finn (1) - genny
Ms P (1) - viscernable
MKG (3) - barks, zenge, Dubz
genny (0) -

15/24 players voting
Voting closes in ~5 hours

*Please check your votes*

 

[samac]

Ok, just to make it clear with my last posts because I confused myself:
DocE was concerned TE told something in a PM to get someone killed. Instead of using her damn name he decided to confuse me and use “the Iron Lady”
I got confused with alley because she opened one with me after TE died, but hers wasn’t with TE.
As far as I know she only had a PM with me. The only other possibilities are LIS and bread.
if she said something damming I’d look on thread, but when I was wolf we killed TE just to confuse everyone. Night 1.

 

[WildZoo]

So I guess I'm back to the previous thought. I dont think the kill of the iron lady was chance. Strikes me as someone getting rid of a chat partner. But whooooooom.

Back to work for real

Well, I never talked to TME so good to know your vote for me was even more baseless than it already was

 

[WildZoo]

@SportPonies is here

 

[DocEspana]

Well, I never talked to TME so good to know your vote for me was even more baseless than it already was

I mean I told you that I just dont *like* you. If only dyachei was here so I could have someone I liked even less (from a game perspective, purely. I mean no ill will to anyone in real life).

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'm going to try this

Unyeet alissa
Yeet mkg

 

[Animal Midwife]

Also @Stagg737 you're making me very angry.

 

[SportPonies]

You can have more. You should have caught that.

This was answered later by DocE but my feelings are pretty much what he said. This is kind of an NAI comment so I don’t even know if it was worth responding to, but I guess I just didn’t see that as “clearly” as you made it sound

If WZ is a wolf I’ll be shook and she has me in her furry little pockets.
I don’t have much feelings on mkg. She hasn’t been as active as she has previously but I don’t know if that makes her inherently wolfy.
sunshine I have mixed feelings on. She gets snappy but it’s NAI, though others believe she gets more snappy as village I’m not sure.

Quoted this because I agree with genny lol. I’d be suspicious that someone has a strong read on Dubz at this point in the game, but I guess I’m also biased so

Cray, this is the kind of lazy play that you’re doing this game that irks me.

I didn’t answer “Dubz question with a question” and then not answer. Dubz wasn’t talking to me. Dubz was asking Finn about moving off the April vote.

Since I hadn’t seen Dubz talk much about other wolf reads besides April, and was questioning Finn for moving off the vote, I wanted to know if Dubz had any other wolf reads and what they were.

Manufacturing shade on me by claiming I wasn’t answering a question is disingenuous.

Hmmm. Quoting this to look back at it.

I still don’t understand why. I don’t think it’s caught a wolf while I’ve been playing, but it’s been used plenty as a lazy way for wolves to throw sus on villagers with little pushback (I assume because it’s pretty objective whether someone’s been liking but not posting). Closest was Z being called out by chaos in Bioshock, but there were other things to sus him for (lurking wasn’t what made me sus and I don’t think it was for many others) and I honestly still don’t think that was weird - eod is chaotic and villagers lurk trying to keep up, too.

^^agreed with this, and I think it’s foolish for people to regularly bring up lurking as AI. Sometimes people just don’t have time or spoons to post at the moment

note to self: on page 46. At the doctor rn so reading bits and pieces when I’m free

 

[WildZoo]

I mean I told you that I just dont *like* you. If only dyachei was here so I could have someone I liked even less (from a game perspective, purely. I mean no ill will to anyone in real life).

Oh you're right I totally forgot the point of this game is to vote for people who we don't like! I know I know, next you'll say my very presence is detrimental to you winning the game and that alone is justification. But man I really think you should be trying to find wolves instead. Clock is kind of ticking on your longevity if you keep just going after people whose playstyle you don't like.

 

[WildZoo]

Also @Stagg737 you're making me very angry.

But he hasn't even bussed anyone yet!

 

[Zenge142]

There’s more quotes of MKGs that I could have pulled from Bioshock but I’m still at work, and these will highlight the point I’m trying to get across.

Spoiler: MKG Bioshock

UNYEET AM

Now onto some reads:
Cray - sounds very similar to GGoats
Zenge- provillage, trying to get people more involved, etc.
Shorty - had some good reads earlier, actively wolf hunting and asking questions
Barks - asks a lot of questions, pokes at peoples arguments
Dina- so far I'm ok with her, but I read her village for most of GGoats so I'm waiting to see more
Genny - ok so far, took of the AM blinders
pleasy - feel weird about her, I need to go back and reread her points on MsP cause I didnt really get it
Alissa - the vote swap was odd, but I'd like to see more
April - Jumped to peoples defense in the beginning, dont agree with the point that more posting = more wolfy
AM - really jumped on alissa. I get its D1 and we are just getting started but like, it sounded so similar to how she started the wagon on alissa in goats. also thought it was interesting that she posted her reads list with no explination, which she got after alissa for in GGoats

Yeet alissa

I'm not a fan of her naked vote on kata, who I have in my neutrals. I feel like shes been backtracking on her voting habits all day.

yeah so I've pretty much had to scrap my last reads list, I'm currently going back and running some iso's. Currently going throught schools please, plan on doing alley next cause I dont feel great about her. If I have time tonight might reread zenge and try and figure out why I'm reading him so differently than everyone else. I also want to iso the dead to see if they maybe something stands out as to why they were targeted. I did reread the AM/April argument before night results came out, and it did read v/v for me.

My iso isn't as organized as Shorty's, I went in chronological order and bounced back and forth on some of my points due to that, but we did touch on similar things so I don't understand why you take issue with mine while feeling ok with hers. I have so many posts in that iso because I didn't want to leave out parts of conversations or manipulate your posts and take them out of context. I get the frustration of having to repeat yourself but I think there are some things that I pointed out that have been left unanswered, like why did you move shorty from neutral to village based off of one post, her zenge read? I still dont get your wording in your conversation with april, where she warns you that shorty misread zenge and he ended up having a PR, and you responded saying like so if she feels weird about him he isnt a vanillager? What points did trilt make that you didn't agree with, but still read her as village? I'm trying to understand how you've gotten from point A to point B here.

Read these for their tone. Read these for their gravity, and certainty, and conviction. This is a player who’s actively wolfhunting. Who’s reevaluating as the thread state changes.

This isn’t.

Spoiler: MKG England

So the only other people that had more than one vote were:
AM (3) - alissa, TME, SAR
Alissa (2) - finn, capri
Zenge (3) - genny, sunshine, cray
sunshine (3) - LIS, VMH, Barks

Some things that stand out to me about each:
AM - kinda reading village based on tone/questions, but some things have pinged me: she has led a yeet against Alissa D2 in every game I've played with her which is kinda weird, & had back and forth with Alissa but left her vote on Stagg, before placing a contingency yeet on Alissa for D2
Alissa - full disclosure, I get her mixed up with Alley, but from doing a quick iso and skimming I feel ok about her right now, pretty much neutral
Zenge - I dont think he's acting very similar to when he was a wolf in bioshock, but I wouldnt say this is normal village zenge either. I dont really trust my own reads after getting pocketed last time, but right now he's on the lower end of the neutral pile, closer to wolf lean
Sunny - I have her tentatively in village leans, I think her frustration was genuine, and her content posts have added to the discussion well

I honestly didn't think single-votes were considered wagons.
Sorry, you led the alissa D2 in ggoats, then she got yeeted D1 in Bioshock. It just stuck with me that Alissa seems to get yeeted early on a lot. I dont think its some pattern that is AI for you, but I had it in whats left of my notes and I left it. She's ok because I literally searched posts for user, skimmed the page of results and felt ok, but that is missing context of posts, and any responses people have to her. I really need to go back and ISO alley and Alissa, the A names plus cat pics just make them merge into one person in my brain, and I dont feel comfortable giving much of a read on them or moving them out of neutral when I'm forgetting who said what

I’m checking in from the barn again, just a quick update:
I have my notes for my Alissa iso on my laptop, and I have not gotten to her interactions with AM yet, but so far she seems pro-village.
for everyone thinking that I’m inactive, your correct, I spread myself a bit thin this week between this, the game night and speed game over the weekend and IRL things going on. I’ve been at the barn since 9 and probably won’t be back home till 5, I had to have the vet out for one of my mares. I will happily share more reads later, but you need to be patient with me if you want more in depth thoughts. I didn’t realize single votes fell under the term wagon yesterday so that’s why I didn’t share my thoughts on those votes. And it honestly drives me crazy that people think it’s weird I’m not playing the same as in ggoats. The same thing came up in bio shock. I don’t think you can consider that my meta as I’d like to think I’ve improved or adjusted my play style since my first game.

And by the way, the low posting this game, I’ll agree with MKG, really is NAI, because her Bioshock post count was pretty low too.

With that in mind, knowing the post counts are roughly similar. Look what she did with her posts in Bioshock. Look what she’s done with her posts here. There’s a pretty stark contrast.

By all means though, I encourage you all to look at MKGs Bioshock posts yourself, because there’s not too many of them, and you can get a real sense of what MKG fighting for village looks like, and how different her posts here look.

 

[genny]

Also worth noting that 2 of the 3 people that voted for AM are now dead

I'm going to try this

Unyeet alissa
Yeet mkg

🤔

 

[Barkley13]

There’s more quotes of MKGs that I could have pulled from Bioshock but I’m still at work, and these will highlight the point I’m trying to get across.

Read these for their tone. Read these for their gravity, and certainty, and conviction. This is a player who’s actively wolfhunting. Who’s reevaluating as the thread state changes.

This isn’t.

And by the way, the low posting this game, I’ll agree with MKG, really is NAI, because her Bioshock post count was pretty low too.

With that in mind, knowing the post counts are roughly similar. Look what she did with her posts in Bioshock. Look what she’s done with her posts here. There’s a pretty stark contrast.

By all means though, I encourage you all to look at MKGs Bioshock posts yourself, because there’s not too many of them, and you can get a real sense of what MKG fighting for village looks like, and how different her posts here look.

Yes I also thought her DocE vote was weird at the time (opportunistic maybe?) and then was weirded out when she was shading AM yesterday but also kind of hedging on it

 

[Crayola227]

Day Two - Keep Calm and WW On - Vote Tally

AM (0) -
Alissa (1) - AM
Zenge (1) - Cray
Bobloblaw (1) - Ms P
Viscernable (4) - dina, cyndia, capri, sunshine
LIS (1) - Dubz
Mayo (0) -
Sunshine (1) - LIS
DocEspana (1) - Mayo
WZ (1) - DocE
Dina (1) - samac

12/24 players voting
Voting closes in 11.5 hours

Ew not liking the Visc wagon. I feel pretty torn on Visc, her posts have both villagey and wolfy things about them. Don't feel a lot of trust for who's on Visc. I would like those people to lay out a case for their wolf read and also maybe some other reads like who else they considered, so I can eval why they decided Visc was the wolfiest player there is.

If it's just the thing with April, I dunno. Plenty of people on that vote. The timing was weird.

 

[Crayola227]

I don't really plan on adjusting to 36/12s. I'm gonna play this game out because I like the theme but I don't think I'm doing long cycles ever again. On that note, my planned game is not going to be long cycles so idek if people want me to run it (but I'll take that discussion to the future games thread).


Can you elaborate? Especially re:Zenge since all I said was I didn't understand the vote (and no one ever explained it to me).


Why do I even bother playing? All this time and I'm still getting wolf read for things I do every single game. I have almost never come put with a bunch of contribution or reads in early game. Exceptions being when I actually had good info.

It's ridiculous to me that other people (like DocE just to name the first one I can think of not pick on him) get everyone who has played with them jumping up to talk about their play is typical for them and NAI but no matter how long I play that connection never seems to get made for me. And I'm really getting sick of being put under fire for the same thing over and over. The only reason I have to talk about how I play is because I keep getting asked about it. At any rate, there's zero chance of me becoming player who comes into the game swinging on D1 so is there any reason for me to keep playing?


Anyways, second post incoming with my thoughts right now.

Just I am sussing Zenge, so didn't like you being against that and you sussed April who was village...you could be village and do those things, sure. But it could be badness. Just noting.

 

[Crayola227]

Someone discuss with me whether it's more likely for wolf LIS or village LIS to be like " I've got no response to your suspicion"

Yeah I only remember a few specific things about his meta, like a love of tunneling as a villager and even moreso fake tunneling as a wolf, his anti-3P stance that was a decent tell for him being true neutral last game, and I feel like he's more no-nonsense when he wolfs. As a villager he will seem less focused is all I got.

 

[Crayola227]

I held off on voting until after work D1 and haven't voted yet D2 because I'm really struggling to find wolves this game. Everyone I find that has done something that pinged me has only a few wolf points and has also done things that felt village. I just finished class today and have homework I really need to do and work until 9 EST (unlikely to be able to sneak on my phone since I'm on the front desk with my boss), so trying to keep reading and finally figure out someone I feel good about voting isn't a realistic option. I'm going to vote for MsP because it feels like she was fishing for people to speculate on whether SAR was royalty yesterday (looking for people to dump sus on for the SAR kill?), her posts about whether the Queen was in the game pinged me (again seemed like trying to fish for info and draw people into speculation that could look damning; the tone on them was off/performative and her reasoning on "the Queen can't be in the game because losing her would be automatic village loss" made no sense to me). The angleshooting gives me pause because I don't feel like a wolf would want to draw so much negative attention to themself, if they get Bob misyeeted it looks REAL bad for them, and I can't imagine a bus of that magnitude. I am wondering if wolf 3p hunting, though. She may truly suspect he's in a group PM with a competing faction, if she's in a pack that she knows has too few members to be the only antivillage group.

vote MsP

Hit the enter button for some spaces a few times pLEASE

 

[Crayola227]

I’m also moving alley a little more to the wolfy side of neutral after last night

Why?

 

[PippyPony]

Day Two - Keep Calm and WW On - Vote Tally

AM (0) -
Alissa (0) -
Zenge (1) - Cray
Bobloblaw (1) - Ms P
Viscernable (4) - dina, cyndia, capri, sunshine
LIS (1) -
Mayo (0) -
Sunshine (1) - LIS
DocEspana (1) - Mayo
WZ (0) -
Dina (1) - samac
Finn (1) - genny
Ms P (1) - viscernable
MKG (4) - barks, zenge, Dubz, AM
genny (0) -

@Viscernable @mkg323 you are tied
15/24 players voting, which is bloody embarrassing after 33 hours
Voting closes in ~3 hours

 

[Dinashadow]

Dina has been pinging me. If I complete a catch up of when I was restricted I will end up pointing out what did it. Part of it is tone, some of it is how she is assigning villager points and when she popped on to shade Alley, who I village lean ftm. (For the moment)

When did I assign any villager points?

And Alley pinged me on D0, but if you actually read my posts you'd see that I said I felt better about her contributions on D1. Although she's kind of fallen off a bit I still have her in my village leans.

Ew not liking the Visc wagon. I feel pretty torn on Visc, her posts have both villagey and wolfy things about them. Don't feel a lot of trust for who's on Visc. I would like those people to lay out a case for their wolf read and also maybe some other reads like who else they considered, so I can eval why they decided Visc was the wolfiest player there is.

If it's just the thing with April, I dunno. Plenty of people on that vote. The timing was weird.

I already laid on my case for Vis yesterday. I'm going to post my wolf reads in a minute

 

[mkg323]

So here's my iso of alissa. I left a lot of posts for context, so my thoughts are sometimes every couple posts, towards the end it was just exhausting, final thoughts are at the bottom of the last spoiler

Spoiler: D0

If I elect SAR will she tunnel me less? 🤔
Let’s find out
Elect SAR

I know I’m joking. Sleep is super important and I love sleep. I’m just telling myself this to accept that I stayed up til 3 AM last night and also had to wake up at 7 AM for work

There was a quote here from alley agreeing that while she likes mechanic talk it’s unproductive at this point. She said it on thread right after the thought popped in my head. The quote messed up on mobile and I don’t feel like fixing it. Just noting I agreed

Mostly a joke but okay...

I can honestly get behind this logic. I’ve never played with DocE so it’ll make things interesting.

I think this reasoning for voting for SAR is worse than mine

Unelect SAR
Elect el doctor de España (DocE)

its D0, there is no yeet but these are the main points, mostly fluff which I think is NAI, she did swap from SAR to DocE for PM
I made it clear at the time that I personally disagree with electing someone to PM that the majority of players have not played with/know how to read, but Alissa was fine with it. Dont think this is super AI. Interacting with a bunch of people, not just AM

Spoiler: D1 pre-AM

I think I'm gonna
yeet zenge

I didn't like his reasons for voting to elect shorty yesterday and when he was questioned, his defense seemed weak. Also haven't seen anything from him today that makes me want to lean him village

At this point Z hadnt been super active, I think just one large post D1 about DocE/Shorty in terms of content, and I think this vote was valid

It’s not necessarily wolfy motives but his reasoning was odd and when called out for his odd reasoning, his explanation was weird also. Something just seems off so I’m voting there

sounds fine so far, no pings

Personally, I tend to read you wolfy and I think you can be an easy misyeet (i have this problem sometimes as well). Dubz voting you pinged me slightly, but as you said, she's not pushing hard for you yet. I have you in my neutral pile with a slight village lean

In response to April about Dubz vote on her - this reads village to me

Unyeet zenge
I need to re evaluate... I’m not feeling the DocE wagon either and I’m thinking it’s a difference in play style that’s rubbing people the wrong way. So far shorty, genny, TME, april, alley, samac and Dina are village leans for me.

zenge I’d love to know why your read of me includes the reason “vote switch” when I didn’t do that this game and you never called me out on it before?

barks why are you still voting for me? I’d love to see more from you as well

Shared some reads here that are interesting, not sure if there had been enough from genny or dina at this point to put them there but thats just me.

Does anyone have any specific questions for me? I'm pretty caught up on thread but I haven't deep dived anyone specifically. I am trying to not become so engrossed because it makes playing less fun and I'm just trying to have fun.

To answer AM's question: I haven't seen anything from TME that has flagged me as wolfy and I've mostly agreed with her content

This did ping me a bit initially, but her posts later make me feel better/think it is more genuine

Huh? I just don't feel like putting a huge wall post with deep analysis of every player and quotes and yadda yadda because that takes me hours to do. So my being, while I am available and active on thread, my post was to ask if anyone wanted furtherexplanation as to what I've posted so far

totally get this, its hard to do iso's and also keep up with the thread, again, sounds genuine.

Spoiler: W/ AM

I've included AM posts, so its easier to follow what alissa is quoting/responding to

Fair point. Are you wolf reading MsP or are you yeeting her for lack of participation. I have a hard time seeing how you can wolf read MsP when she has barely posted. And it has been discussed already that her being AFK is NAI. Who else is in your POE?

Starting to talk with AM more about her MsP vote, makes a valid point about leaving her vote there

MsP can post better than this. I don't know that she's afk versus lurking. I'm looking into others currently to see what sticks out.

who would the others be? this pings me

I'm just trying to avoid living and breathing a WW game. It takes the fun out of it for me. And this isn't the first time I have publicly asked if anyone had specific questions for me. It helps me navigate when I have limited time to play. Is this a wolf read? Who else is in your POE??

Not to sound like a broken record, but I totally get this, it reads genuine.

yes but it can also be pot of evil, pool of eels, etc. I feel like there has been more of a push lately to get more solid reads out there on D1. Plus there are 23 pages of thread. Are you telling me not one single player has given you wolfy vibes yet? Because it seems to me you're voting for me strictly off of one post you didn't like that nobody else seems to have an issue with

(responding to Finn)

Pay attention to who I'm talking to. I'll mention them when it cohesive and finished.

I just want to remind AM that if this is ok for you to do, it has to be ok for others too. I did see your vote for me and honestly its so hypocritical to say you're not done with reads and not post them, and then turn around and ask others for them and then be upset when they either A) respond promptly but arent complete or B) say they need more time. I havent posted a lot on this thread but I have posted more READS than you. all you've put out is a POE, which was just names.

This is all fair and in no way was I trying to change your play style and what works for you. I was just trying to explain how the expectations for D1 seem to have changed as of late

(again a response to finn)

Although I don't necessarily agree with all aspects of DocE's analysis and his play style is somewhat abrasive, I think he will be a misyeet and those voting for him should look elsewhere

Pretty sure DocE was still in the lead at this point

At this point I'm leaning towards sunny. I'm waiting to see if something changes my mind before vote closes

Kinda surprising because I think Sunny has read frustrated villager up to this point. kinda pinged me, she said she would re-evaluate when unyeeting Z and I would have liked to see her explain why she decided to not go back to voting him?

is there a specific reason why you initially voted MsP for PM?

(good question for sunny, reads village)

who TME? you're currently voting MsP

Ok but you know MsP may not come back in enough time to defend herself so why are you still voting there. Your actions say otherwise if you think voting someone puts pressure on them to make them come up with a defense

what about your reads AM? I asked for those earlier remember?

asking AM about why shes keeping her vote where it is, at this point I think Alissa/AM is v/v

I don't think I'm gonna vote sunny. She seems frustrated villager.

agreed

yeet AM

ok yeah dont agree with that one, again would love to know why she didn't consider going back to Z

Indeed, I am. But I've been talking to more than just Enigma today.

#1 She only has two votes.
#2 She's had several hours to defend and still has hours to defend as of now.

Is there a reason me sitting on MsP bothers you?

Why yes, alissa. And I already said I'd give them when they solidified.

why are you pushing TME for reads when you yourself don't any

honestly valid point

Is this unusual for village AM?

dont remember why i quoted this, but who knows at this point

I'm just surprised that at this point in the game she has yet to come out with anything as to what she's thinking. only that she's "Forming her reads" and with 25 pages of thread i expect more from her

Alissa really got hung up on AM's reads, but I get it, AM asks a lot of questions and expects prompt answers from other players, but wont post her own reads

I do have reads. I just haven't posted a list yet. Why are you ignoring all the people I've been interacting with today? And why did you avoid choose to avoid answering the question in that post?

back to MsP discussion:

Oh i just forgot to answer it. You sitting on MsP bugs me because you love to claim that you're doing the most for village. However, sitting on MsP who hasn't been here for several hours does nothing to help village

I have no idea what MsP is. It has already been discussed MsP being absent is NAI and you don't seem to have any reason to vote for her other than her lack of participation

alissa, I'm the one that taught you about MsP's meta. You're not telling me anything I don't know.

Now explain to me why it bothers you that I'm pushing an unknown who knows the game is ongoing, has checked in this cycle, and is still sitting on a joke vote?

It’s that we both know pushing her is useless. That’s what bothers me

again, I think this is v/v I think Alissa's questions are well reasoned, the vote on MsP didnt really serve a purpose, its the not that Alissa is defending MsP its that she doesnt like the reasons AM is leaving a vote there while also pushing TME

Useless how? You're being very protective of her.

I’m not trying to be. How could I have outside knowledge of her? We’re not even in the same group. But I’m also not gunning for her like you always are. I just think it’s counter productive. What bothers me more is I don’t have your reads and I would very much like them

Not trying to be? That's why you're voting me because I'm voting for her while pressuring others? Remember last game when you freaked out because I wasn't trying to push MsP off a cliff? Weird that suddenly it's an issue for you this game.

And for the reads, I've already told you multiple times that you're ignoring the multiple discussions I'm having with people that would easily give insight to my thought process.

again its the reasons for the vote, not who the vote is on, that Alissa is trying to yeet AM for, or at least thats how I'm understanding this whole thing.

noting interaction with DocE. I think your points to him were fair.

And so is MsP but I don’t see you yeeting stagg for it

*her very next post* vvvvvvvvv


and I did just ISO your post and it actually gave me no insight. So as you like to say. Reads please

I think more discussion should be on Stagg, Enigma, and Vis personally tomorrow.

AM finally posts a POE, no reads

contingency yeet AM

alissa's also being weird. I was going to give her space but her pretending to not understand flawed mechanics is beyond her level of experience. She's literally from Barks's noob game.

I dont think she's acting that weird, but again, this is my third game, and Alissa got misyeeted D2 and D1 in them. I do really think this whole squable is v/v

This is how I interpreted it. I think puppy is being forgiving towards noobishness

dont remember why I quoted this, but I think its just a reminder that she is not JUST interacting with AM

She’s doing what she did in goats as a wolf. Trying to push votes towards me.

It did honestly remind me of this, but at this point I'm not so sure shes a wolf

Spoiler: W/ AM about tinfoils

What do you mean by bolded? When have I discussed mechanics on this thread

You don't see a world where there could be no wolves in the North pm group? And that it ends with samac herself getting yeeted? And then village loses cycles and/or the entire game?

look, clearly a lot of people have feelings about the whole North/Sheriff thing. And with April being Robin Hood I think its even more valid. But having that tinfoil does not = yeet the whole north group. But if AM or Finn start acting wolfy, I'd be willing to yeet one if there is more than just the tinfoil

@alissa14 get out of wolfchat and answer me

so not productive, and if she is PMing Samac (was confirmed later), about the tinfoil that Samac and SAR both strongly believed in, like come on, she is not the only one who thinks this tinfoil is possible, I'd like to see her thoughts on Samac because I feel like she's just tunneling on Alissa

As in, it’s a strong working theory that the Sheriff of Nottingham and the residents of the north are linked

And that you will bet your life (and allow yourself to be successfully yeeted) if you are wrong? Deal?

what is with all this? it makes me feel worse about AM. Samac, SAR, and I'd assume all the people who hopped on April's vote yesterday believed this tinfoil is possible. so why are you so stuck on Alissa? She's not even the one who started the tinfoil??

I don't need to make deals with you. It's a game

Why are you so afraid to say yes if it's a strong solid theory? You should have nothing to lose because there's no way it's wrong and a bunch of misyeets, right?

I honestly got rid of the rest of this back and forth because it was so ridiculous.

On a completely different topic, capri voting for me last minute was super weird and I'm keeping my eye on her tonight. Also looking at vis for tomorrow

Alissa trying to actually wolf hunt, much appreciated

You've already failed to yeet a wolf once. What park of it is still "working" given you're on misyeet #2? Is it finished after you yeet samac? Or will you still be looking for the North?

That's the part that bothers you?

misyeet 2?

Are you talking about april? I didn't vote for april. I voted who i think is most wolfy. It's out of my control that not everyone agrees with me. I don't plan on yeeting samac. I have no idea where you're getting that from. My working theory is more about mechanics (your favorite) and game solving than it is about wolf hunting, though, if my theory if right, it can be used to catch the sheriff. And yeah it bothers me because you're making false claims about me again

(I think this is what AM refers to below)

Did you really just say the bolded?

And you're one to talk AM. I never got your so-called magical reads list. Did that ever come into fruition or are you still working on it? You can't blame me for misyeeting a villager tonight when you stayed on your stagg vote all alone for god only knows why

still waiting on reads

Wolves tend to be "wrong" about theories.
"Oopsies, I didn't mean to yeet all those villagers [and none of my partners]. Sorry I was wrong."

Village can have wrong theories too, are you expecting us to perfectly mechanics solve as village?? like what?? I know you dont like mechanics solving AM but like seriously.

Did you miss my POE I posted literally less than an hour ago? And did you miss the reasoning literally in the Stagg yeet when I did it? And will you address the bolded statement in your other quote?

POE does not = reads.

anyone else getting goats flashbacks?

yes

Villagers are wrong all the time, too.

So?

Wrong isn't inherently AI, yet in this case you seem to be suggesting it is.

State it 100% clearly: Do you feel that the people pushing the 'North' theory are wolves, or just villagers being wrong?

LIS saying it better than I can about theories

When it's a theory that involves yeeting at least three people randomly (maybe four), I fail see how there's no wolf motivation. samac was super invested in the idea that there was one wolf in every group last game, and two games prior to that was super invested in the idea that a group of three contained a wolf. So believing this is par for her that I can pass that off as noobiness for expecting everything will be in a neat bucket despite being proven otherwise. alissa, on the other hand, knows better. Maybe there is a North wolf, but I think blindly yeeting until the entire group is dead is the wolfiest way to go about exploring it. They'd be discovered just the same by just voting the wolfiest people and the number will dwindle and out them naturally instead of buying free misyeeting during the hardest part of the game for wolves to control.

NO ONE IS SAYING TO YEET THE WHOLE GD GROUP! BUT IF SOMEONE STARTS ACTING REALLY WOLFY IN THE GROUP, THEN YEAH, THEY MIGHT BE THE SHERIFF. STOP MAKING THESE BONEHEADED ASSUMPTIONS

this has nothing to do with the theory. I do know better that some groups will have wolves and some may have zero

Well, since you won't share the theory on thread, I wouldn't know exactly what you're discussing.

so then why do you keep pushing me. Until samac gives me permission, the things we've discussed stay between her and I

This whole thing is seriously giving me a head ache

I'm so glad the reads list that took you several hours to come up with led to this. 100% worth the wait. thank you AM for your selfless contribution to village

Because you keep changing your story for why you're yeeting me. You're trying to get a misyeet and have shown me no edivence you're actually evaluating the game outside of keeping yourself threat-free.

First reason was because I wasn't doing enough by "page 25".
Next it was because I need to "stop pressuring MsP".
Later it was because I need to "share my thought process"
Further out it was because "my thoughts weren't in an organized list"
Even further out it was because I need to "stop pressuring Enigma"
Now it's because "hidden theory" and I was "pressuring Stagg"

Do you see the problem with moving goalposts? If you were village, you wouldn't be simultaneously badgering me to do more than getting upset when I make more efforts toward gamesolving.

Who even is all in your POE?

She makes a good point here. The reasons have changed, but then again you guys have been tunneling each other all day, so surprise surprise.

capri, vis, maybe alley, barks and zenge, you and finn have to do with the theory.
village is SAR and samac for me. village lean genny and dina
need more from sporty
neutral dubz, shorty, docE

I'd be interested in how capri/vis/alley/barks/zenge have to do with the North tinfoil

no i actually agree with it. it was just anti climactic for how much you made everyone wait

And they actually agree on the POE

Why'd you list neutrals without a full list? And you mention "the theory" again which leads me to believe it has to do with a "wolf in this group". finn, samac, and I were the only ones in the group. So you can't say you're not literally following the one wolf in this group theory.

Alissa already said she knows better than to follow the one wolf per group thing, common AM. She can think that and also say there is a wolf in the north, they are not mutually exclusive statements

i just want to acknowledge this before I go to bed. First and foremost, I am sorry if I ever upset you thus far in the game. It was never my intention and I never want to be the type of player that makes the game miserable for another player. I guess my issue with your activity today is something seems off and more reasons for me to yeet you became more apparent (the list above). I never said you should stop pressuring MsP. It was more “she’s not back yet so why waste so much effort?” And Im not yeeting you because I think you pressuring stagg is a bad thing. I agree that some pressure needs to be applied there. I just thought there were better vote candidates and it didn’t seem like your vote for stagg was because you thought he was wolfy

This is what I was saying earlier, the issue she has with AM is not who she voted for, but why, because it wasnt going to do anything to get MsP active on the thread.

Neutral means they’ve posted a lot but I haven’t put them in either pile. Anyone not mentioned likely hasn’t posted enough for me to form an opinion on. I’m pretty set on samac being village. April flipped village. So that leaves a 50/50 split between you and Finn and I think you’re the wolfier of the two

I will retract my argument for stagg after re reading your post. I am guilty for not being around for vote close since I was near sure April would flip village and I didn’t like the DocE vote either. I cannot fault you for voting stagg, who you thought was wolfy, even if nobody else agreed with you. It’s similar to why I voted for you. I think you’re wolfy, but not enough agreed with me.

So what exactly is your issue with me then? Everything we've talked about tonight has ended with you agreeing I made a reasonable move.

I caught up during lunch but I don’t have time to post anything updated. Feeling a bit better about AM. I really got stuck in a tunnel yesterday. Will post more thoughts later

unyeet AM

So this is the last of it, Alissa hasnt been on since yesterday afternoon, and she unyeeted AM. This was supposed to be an ISO for alissa and it turned into a kinda AM ISO. I now have Alissa firmly in my village leans, AM I've put back in neutral for now. I dont like that she tunneled on alissa for a tinfoil that other people started, and some of her posts above pinged me. I know this isnt all AM has done so I'm not willing to put her in wolf leans quite yet, but what started as v/v bickering went kinda far and I'll be keeping an eye on AM more in the future.

 

[DocEspana]

Oh you're right I totally forgot the point of this game is to vote for people who we don't like! I know I know, next you'll say my very presence is detrimental to you winning the game and that alone is justification. But man I really think you should be trying to find wolves instead. Clock is kind of ticking on your longevity if you keep just going after people whose playstyle you don't like.

Me not liking you when you play just has to do with you being very abrasive in games (in past games. this one too, but this one isnt actually a very good example of it). Which is a lot coming from me. I'm more saying that I *enjoy* picking you to lynch. Like a cherry on top. But the selection had nothing to do with that - it was reasoned. And once that reason was evaluated I moved onto other people. You should know me well enough to not take that too seriously.

 

[PippyPony]

Continued ghosting will start incurring penalties at mod discretion
as soon as within the next hour.

Similarly, please do not request a sub unless you have a legitimate emergent need for one -- they are in low supply and you'll find I am not particularly amenable to people skipping out on commitments without reason.

If you must request to sub out, please do so in your role PM only.
Discussing substitutions on thread will ensure you do not get one.​

 

[mkg323]

There’s more quotes of MKGs that I could have pulled from Bioshock but I’m still at work, and these will highlight the point I’m trying to get across.

Read these for their tone. Read these for their gravity, and certainty, and conviction. This is a player who’s actively wolfhunting. Who’s reevaluating as the thread state changes.

This isn’t.

And by the way, the low posting this game, I’ll agree with MKG, really is NAI, because her Bioshock post count was pretty low too.

With that in mind, knowing the post counts are roughly similar. Look what she did with her posts in Bioshock. Look what she’s done with her posts here. There’s a pretty stark contrast.

By all means though, I encourage you all to look at MKGs Bioshock posts yourself, because there’s not too many of them, and you can get a real sense of what MKG fighting for village looks like, and how different her posts here look.

I was asked for reads early, gave them, and then got hard sussed because they were "wishy washy"
My solution to that this game is to wait, and give stronger reads.

 

[DocEspana]

Ew not liking the Visc wagon. I feel pretty torn on Visc, her posts have both villagey and wolfy things about them. Don't feel a lot of trust for who's on Visc. I would like those people to lay out a case for their wolf read and also maybe some other reads like who else they considered, so I can eval why they decided Visc was the wolfiest player there is.

If it's just the thing with April, I dunno. Plenty of people on that vote. The timing was weird.

If i have to come onto this thread (while being yelled at by the wife) just before close and make sure visc doesnt get lynched by changing my vote, I will. and I'm saying this knowing damn well that visc could be a wolf. I just also know that I am willing enough to get burned to try to keep them alive since they came to help me (also because I want people to potentially talk with).

 

[DocEspana]

If i have to come onto this thread (while being yelled at by the wife) just before close and make sure visc doesnt get lynched by changing my vote, I will. and I'm saying this knowing damn well that visc could be a wolf. I just also know that I am willing enough to get burned to try to keep them alive since they came to help me (also because I want people to potentially talk with).

oh also. I'm hoping we can start lynching people I feel legitimately good about. so not visc. Also I wont mind losing MGK but this seems too easy. Like.... they got *involved* when talking with me the other day back and forth and now theyre leading the vote and are almost apathetic. It feels like someone who has not a ton to lose - aka a villager. Wolves would fight harder. but thats my take - that its *too* easy. But idk how they play.

unlunch mayo (should already be the case but i think mod missed it)
lunch sunny

 

[PippyPony]

oh also.

unlunch mayo (should already be the case but i think mod missed it)
lunch sunny

Your votes have been logged correctly.

Mayo is currently voting for you, not the other way around.

 

[PippyPony]

Day Two - Keep Calm and WW On - Vote Tally

AM (0) -
Alissa (0) -
Zenge (1) - Cray
Bobloblaw (1) - Ms P
Viscernable (4) - dina, cyndia, capri, sunshine
LIS (1) -
Mayo (0) -
Sunshine (2) - LIS, DocE
DocEspana (1) - Mayo
WZ (0) -
Dina (1) - samac
Finn (1) - genny
Ms P (1) - viscernable
MKG (4) - barks, zenge, Dubz, AM
genny (0) -

@Viscernable @mkg323 you are tied
16/24 players voting, which is bloody embarrassing after 33 hours
Voting closes in ~3 hours

 

[WildZoo]

Me not liking you when you play just has to do with you being very abrasive in games (in past games. this one too, but this one isnt actually a very good example of it). Which is a lot coming from me. I'm more saying that I *enjoy* picking you to lynch. Like a cherry on top. But the selection had nothing to do with that - it was reasoned. And once that reason was evaluated I moved onto other people. You should know me well enough to not take that too seriously.

Yikes, I don't quite know how to feel about you finding me abrasive genuinely apologize if I ever caused offense - it's not my intention and when I'm snarky it's always meant tongue in cheek. The only true rage is when I'm being misvoted.

In any case, it's not that I'm taking it all that seriously, it's just that I can't get a good feel for whether you're actually wolfhunting right now or not. It has been a very long time since we've played together, and my memory for meta specifics is not excellent.

 

[alleycat03]

If WZ is a wolf I’ll be shook and she has me in her furry little pockets.

Just so you know, Dubz had me pocketed HARDCORE during the emojis game. I am currently village reading her right now too, but she is incredibly good at pocketing. Just keep that in mind because I don’t think you played that game.

Full disclosure, I was TE’s PM partner choice. Alley had one open with her.
Edit : I take it back. Alley was with sunny. I don’t think anyone else had a PM with her but me.

Correct, I opened a PM with Sunny. I never opened one with TME or received a PM from her.

 

[DocEspana]

Your votes have been logged correctly.

Mayo is currently voting for you, not the other way around.

Work + WW = bad attention to mod posts.

 

[Crayola227]

I had to go back to figure through multiple quotes to figure out the context here but it's the "number of people you can PM" thing, yes?

I understand your interpretation, but it was asked and clarified on thread on page one what the PM rules were because I had questions about it myself. I don't think you're playing dumb because I wouldn't expect that from you, but missing things (this, the sub, and I feel like there was some other thing) is starting to feel like a common theme for you this game.

Right and one thing I do notice for myself anyway, and is likely true of others, is Af affects what things you more or less care about. The trick is figuring out the pattern for a given player. I leaned last game for example, that as a villager I never bother to keep subs straight, but as a wolf I do more so I can sow suspicion on them, for example. So that's why I'm focusing on what things people are or are not glossing over in their play.

 

[mkg323]

Bread:~12 Content posts D1Vote:April
Mkg:~19 Content posts D1Vote: DocE
Stagg:~12 Content Posts D1Vote: Shorty/Mayo
Capri:~19 Content Posts D1Vote: Alissa
Sporty:~16 Content Posts D1Vote: SAR
Cyndia:~20 Content Posts D1Vote: Vis

We’re currently at over 2200 posts on the thread, and these 6 have the fewest posts as far as I can tell. Less than 1% of the total. What I consider “content” is subjective so consider it plus or minus a few posts here or there. I think it’s likely we have a wolf or two hiding in here. Since we don’t have a ton of content to go off of for reads, I included their D1 votes for reference. Most of them were on wagons that weren’t going anywhere except Bread on April, and Mkg on DocE.

I will say, at least for MKG, she has posted her reads recently, so that’s better than the other 5 for analysis purposes. I still don’t have a good read on her though.

going back to this, so I have 19 content posts by your standards, same as Capri, one less than Cyndia. I also had recently posted reads on the top wagons yesterday. So then why vote me? wouldnt it make sense to push the people who have skimmed by with even less posts and no reads?

I need a lot more from mkg personally.

There are only so many hours in a day AM. Get on the list. Oh and feel free to share your own list.

Yeet mkg

got any thoughts to share? not a fan of the naked vote

Hmmm. Feels like it might be time to sheep zenge.

Unyeet lis yeet mkg

not naked but sheeping isnt much better.

I'd be interested in hearing which posts you're referring to. I feel like >75% of all of her posts have been interactions with me or about me.

She interacted with other people besides you, but kept getting sucked into your squabble.

I'm going to try this

Unyeet alissa
Yeet mkg

wow thanks for waiting for that iso, and giving no reasons, super helpful

Yes I also thought her DocE vote was weird at the time (opportunistic maybe?) and then was weirded out when she was shading AM yesterday but also kind of hedging on it

I was frustrated by how he was acting, didn't think he was acting very pro-village, and didnt like any other wagon. you can look at the end of my Alissa ISO to see more of my thoughts on AM. I didn't think it was that big of a deal to point out the killed players voting, it was more of a, huh, well thats funny, more than something to use for AI. It was at the top of the list and stood out like a sore thumb.

 

[finnickthedog]

vote alissa

@alissa14 seriously where did you go? It's hard to observe you when you're not here.

 

[PippyPony]

Work + WW = bad attention to mod posts.

That's fine, and I went back to check that I hadn't missed something -- just wanted to clarify so people don't get confused if they are evaluating votes later.

 

[finnickthedog]

Right and one thing I do notice for myself anyway, and is likely true of others, is Af affects what things you more or less care about. The trick is figuring out the pattern for a given player. I leaned last game for example, that as a villager I never bother to keep subs straight, but as a wolf I do more so I can sow suspicion on them, for example. So that's why I'm focusing on what things people are or are not glossing over in their play.

Interesting. I hadn't actually thought about it in that level of detail. What do you think the specific things DocE has glossed over say about him in this game?

 

[mkg323]

Look, I havent had much time but I've given as much as I can without misremembering stuff. I want to contribute actually useful thoughts to the thread, so I've been a bit slower. I dont really like the Vissy wagon, so I'm going to yeet someone who has been skating by with minimal contributions, and jumped on the April vote while sheeping other people's thoughts.

Yeet bread

 

[WildZoo]

not naked but sheeping isnt much better.

Tbh I just agreed with zenge's assessment. You were in my neutrals previously and I vibed with what he pointed out. Didn't have anything else to add.

On the content post point, you can't just go based on post numbers alone, because some people are just low posters no matter what. This is true for cyndia and capri. It may be true for you too. So while I think it's often a good place to start, you have to look at the content itself too, and that was the part of zenge's analysis that I was supporting, not just that you had a low number of posts.

 

[alleycat03]

Yeet Finn

I just cannot shake the feeling that she is the sheriff. I feel like AM is playing more pro-village than her, and while I am not trying to get caught up in mechanics too much and go into tinfoil territory, I think Samac's theory has legitimate merit to it and it is the biggest clue we've gotten for wolf hunting.