Fire Emblem: Three HoWWses Game Thread

[Wiisp]

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Whether this game is balanced or not in worlds where affliation does mean something is for post game, as for right now, I think people shouldn't be needlessly claim cause I don't want to see, some kind of anti claim mechanic to come to fruition

If Miranda flips slither and also a wolf, I will assume thats what I'm looking for

 

[StartingoverVet]

Not gonna argue @Animal Midwife anymore after this, but you have lots of evidence. Every death has either been a wolf or a villager in a faction. What is that n=7? What will it take to see the trend for you? N=24?

That is evidence. You may not be convinced but I will look for the boogeyman I can see rather than the boogeyman I imagine until proven otherwise.

If you don’t, that’s fine, but it makes you look wolfy to the rest of us.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Not gonna argue @Animal Midwife anymore after this, but you have lots of evidence. Every death has either been a wolf or a villager in a faction. What is that n=7? What will it take to see the trend for you? N=24?

That is evidence. You may not be convinced but I will look for the boogeyman I can see rather than the boogeyman I imagine until proven otherwise.

If you don’t, that’s fine, but it makes you look wolfy to the rest of us.

Death is part of every game unless you're playing an STL one. If wolves are about to sweep, would I be correct to then state that everyone else alive must be village too? One wolf death is not a trend particularly with how quickly Miranda had a fakeclaim ready.

 

[WildZoo]

************

Death is part of every game unless you're playing an STL one.

************

 

[SARdoghandler]

Wow it's so fun to come on thread and find out that despite your best efforts everyone in the game knows your faction AND your ability.

Anyone want my social insurance number while we're at it? I'm sure someone will happily share that too

 

[Viscernable]

okay
and what’s that mean?
I will say I believe the church exists
but I don’t necessarily believe those within the church are currently trustworthy.
I won’t elaborate.

Does anyone else have a lead on the trustworthiness of the church?

 

[justafluff]

Does anyone else have a lead on the trustworthiness of the church?

What do you mean by trustworthy? You saw Nate's flip and it wasn't wolf.

 

[Santygrass]

Wow it's so fun to come on thread and find out that despite your best efforts everyone in the game knows your faction AND your ability.

Anyone want my social insurance number while we're at it? I'm sure someone will happily share that too

I mean, if you feel like it, if you have a credit card number..... 👀

 

[Santygrass]

Does anyone else have a lead on the trustworthiness of the church?

Likely that the church has something against the Black Eagles and viceversa.

No mech confirmation or lead of it though, mostly based on game information and my own guess / hypothesis

 

[StartingoverVet]

Wow it's so fun to come on thread and find out that despite your best efforts everyone in the game knows your faction AND your ability.

Anyone want my social insurance number while we're at it? I'm sure someone will happily share that too

No, but I can sell you an extended warranty on your house for wolf attacks.

 

[SARdoghandler]

On the other hand, I don't think I've been mentioned so many times in a game before

 

[Santygrass]

And I was going to let it slide, but I dont know how to shut up.

Mech and flavor are valid tools to solve, I think everyone can agree with that. If your solve is based only on that, then its 100% bad and the worst. They should be used as complements when solving someone alignment, not as the basis of the whole read.
Pressuring based on mech/flavor is not only dumb because then its a game of you speculating the setup which doesnt include whoever you are trying to solve, its mostly a guess battle between you and the host to see how much the host can **** you up.


I recon that AM is being... Obtuse, to put it in a word to some affiliation/role stuff that I dont particularly like, but she is also making logic takes in regarding to how to read people and how the game shoulnt be fully solvable based on flavor/mech that are totally fair and seeing sov trying to shade AM for not solving like they does tilts me a little . Heck I am using a lot of flavor to do affiliation guesses too, but ultimately what is more important to me are the player posts on thread and if their perspective matchs up with the village/affiliation mindset that Im guessing.

So take this post as a rant if you will and continue with your life hmmyes

 

[StartingoverVet]

On the other hand, I don't think I've been mentioned so many times in a game before

This post reminds me that I don’t think you read my “reads” post on everyone in the game or else I expected you to remind me your name isn’t SARS. Ah the good old times.

 

[Viscernable]

Yes minus reborn Nate

Does it specifically say everyone in your faction is listed or is that your assumption?

 

[SARdoghandler]

This post reminds me that I don’t think you read my “reads” post on everyone in the game or else I expected you to remind me your name isn’t SARS. Ah the good old times.

Hey, since COVID happened I don't think SARS is the big baddie anymore so I've gotten over it

 

[justafluff]

Does it specifically say everyone in your faction is listed or is that your assumption?

Assumption. I was given 3 names.

 

[Viscernable]

Oh maybe I should actually catch up on those pages huh

Okay I forget what I haven’t read, can someone link this thing?

 

[Viscernable]

Exclusvity = Cant win with another faction 🤔

I thought that was the standard term

Yes I don’t think inclusive/exclusive are clear terms for this game as there’s a divided village-ish assemblage of factions and from what people have said about wincons it seems some can’t win with some others but we don’t have evidence for or against whether they can win with others

 

[alleycat03]

*********
This has nothing to do with the particular game, but I was reminiscing, and when I started WW-info, wolves usually gave players a choice of conversion or death, but then most of us as mods took away the option (in my case it was mainly because it was just difficult to get an answer from a player overnight and it interrupted moving the game forward).

Anyway, my question to the WW hive is, are there games like this anymore where players are given that option?

A lot of old timers hated conversion. (And I have hardly ever been converted🙁. I am rarely trusted to begin with. Why would wolves add to their woes).

This is kinda what happened with Zenge’s skeleton army in the 10 yr anniversary game. Some people were able to choose death or the skeleton army and some people didn’t have a choice (based on how they died).

 

[StartingoverVet]

And I was going to let it slide, but I dont know how to shut up.

Mech and flavor are valid tools to solve, I think everyone can agree with that. If your solve is based only on that, then its 100% bad and the worst. They should be used as complements when solving someone alignment, not as the basis of the whole read.
Pressuring based on mech/flavor is not only dumb because then its a game of you speculating the setup which doesnt include whoever you are trying to solve, its mostly a guess battle between you and the host to see how much the host can **** you up.


I recon that AM is being... Obtuse, to put it in a word to some affiliation/role stuff that I dont particularly like, but she is also making logic takes in regarding to how to read people and how the game shoulnt be fully solvable based on flavor/mech that are totally fair and seeing sov trying to shade AM for not solving like they does tilts me a little . Heck I am using a lot of flavor to do affiliation guesses too, but ultimately what is more important to me are the player posts on thread and if their perspective matchs up with the village/affiliation mindset that Im guessing.

So take this post as a rant if you will and continue with your life hmmyes

Fair enough, but AM and I are always diametrically opposed. I create mechanics centered games and like villagers to have to game solve to overcome wolf abilities. It’s the balance I go for. Some don’t like that approach. I know that it’s fallen out of favor since I am no longer round, mostly it was because I have done best in WW doing exactly what you warn against, and that is to think about how a mod would structure the game. It has led to a lot of success in the past for me, because ultimately there are structure and balance issues that you start to anticipate. I don’t agree that it is wrong to focus on that, but in the end, finding wolves is finding wolves and you have to use all the tools you have available. Don’t ignore evidence of wolf behavior, don’t ignore mechanism that imply wolfiness….ignoring the obvious is obstinate either way.

I proceed along a hypothesis and if every piece of evidence supports that hypothesis I will continue until the experiment fails (or succeeds) or I get new evidence to change the hypothesis. That just seems smart. I am constantly aware of and looking for signs that I am wrong.

AM is great at (perhaps annoyingly) asking for reads over and over and finding wolves. I applaud that. Let he do her thing. She is better at that than me (and most of us). I am good at figuring out mechanics to find wolves and I will do my thing. I will also look at voting patterns and posts and interactions. I am not saying to ignore other evidence.

That is where I am coming from.

I only put this long explanation out there because few of you have played with me, and I thought it would help understand how I play. I was a JDH and DocE disciple and that is how they taught me to think if those names mean anything round here.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 3 Tally: Cut A Bloody Path ⚔️

Nate ()
VeggieTrex ()
alleycat ()
miranda920 (13) - zuri>Lawpy, Wisp, VeggieT, Wondalfy, AM, SOV, April, HW>mayo, Santy, alley, chicandtough, fluff, mothy
mothy (1) - genny
Zenge ()
Wisp (1) - Clem

15/20

Winning/Losing: @miranda920
Missing: @SARdoghandler @Viscernable @NateTheLesser @Zenge142 @miranda920

Vote ends 10pm EST/9pm CST/etc TODAY, 1/18/23 (~4.25 hours)

 

[kaydubs]

I was a JDH and DocE disciple and that is how they taught me to think if those names mean anything round here.

Wow, that explains a lot more than it doesn’t. I never knew.

 

[justafluff]

Okay I forget what I haven’t read, can someone link this thing?

Its around p 66

Spoiler: Miranda - Wondalfy back & forth

This quite literally may be the dumbest thing I've ever done in these games. Good lesson for me if so. But @miranda920 since you've already heavily implied your faction, what's your name?

(I know this very much looks like fishing. There is a reason)

Hanneman

I also didn't imply anything, more just sharing the lore with those that aren't familiar

So why when I used rolename seer on you last night, your name was Tomas?

(Sort of genuine WW mechanics question also)

I don't know? But I most definitely am Hanneman
One of the professors at Garreg Mach

I thought the opposite. This whole questioning of Miranda came about because Tomas is described as a faithful member of the church, although is not aligned with a house as far as I can tell. Found it weird that Miranda would agree the church may not be good. Found it weirder they gave a different answer than what I discovered

 

[SARdoghandler]

This right here. How can you simultaneously claim you’re vouching for Nate for the exact same reason SAR “vouched” for you (even though she didn’t really), AND at the same time, claim to have “no idea” what I am talking about?!

Nate’s death and subsequent flip flat out proved you’ve been lying through your teeth!

I’m sick of this BS from you. Screw it.

I’m Gilbert. I try on new roles every night. N1 I targeted SAR. The role I copied was basically just “If Fluff dies, I die instead”.

This is what SAR’s role is. Again, I want to remind everyone she didn’t “vouch for Fluff” she said she would prefer Fluff not die. THIS is why.

But that also means Fluff is a LIAR! The very fact that Nate died, and flipped means Fluff’s whole “I vouch for Nate the same way SAR vouched for me” is a LIE!

You’re outted Fluff!

Unfortunately I really do think SAR is village, and I’ve been mulling over how to handle this. But I think it’s time village knew so we can stop listening to these BS lies Fluff keeps spinning.

If there’s a tinkerer out there, maybe make something to decouple SAR from Fluff? Idk. Get creative with it. Say it’s “Really durable. Like REALLY durable.” That’s always helped in the past.

Spoiler

Anyway… I’m going to continue my catch up now. 6 pages to go.

Here's what I understand (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

SAR states that they do not want fluff to be killed.
Zenge asks for clarification.
SAR specifies that this is NOT due to affiliation, and hints that it is due to role mechanics.
Zenge understands.
Nate/fluff vouch for each other by stating they are of the same affiliation/faction.
Someone asks fluff whether she can also vouch for SAR in the same way.
fluff confirms, says that she is vouching for SAR in the same way she is vouching for Nate (e.g. SAR is her same affiliation). Has leaned hard into this by insisting that yes, SAR is in their affiliation/faction.
SAR never really stated that they wanted fluff kept alive for affiliation reasons.
Zenge just confirmed that SAR/fluff are tied by role mechanics, not necessarily for affiliation reasons.

Ok so wow since everything about me is just out on thread now I guess we'll go full transparency so we can put this to bed.

I vouched for Fluff to not die because I will die in her place. However, I am also making an educated guess she is village. I knew she was in my faction (only member I know). While she could be a wolf (hence why I said I don't know her affiliation 100%, I don't see how my role works with her being a wolf unless there are other village abilities to balance it out that when she is killed, a villager would die in her place. Therefore, I am comfortable putting her in my more-likely-village pile.

I did not correct Fluff saying I vouched for her in the same way that she vouched for Nate because I thought that maybe leaving a small bit of mystery in that would help to see that the wolves didn't get ALL the info. (Maybe it also increased my dying odds which when I am a villager I prefer mid game night kill death always )

Anyway that was probably not as coherent as I hoped so I will now take questions I suppose

ok, so either you shoot fluff and then we yeet her (so we lose 2 villagers), or we have to spend 2 yeet cycles to get rid of fluff the wolf, which costs us 3 villagers.

Yeah, this somewhat sums up the argument as to why I feel fluff is more likely village for now

 

[SARdoghandler]

Also

Yeet Miranda

Sorry, my child. But info must be confirmed.

@kaydubs

 

[justafluff]

Ok so wow since everything about me is just out on thread now I guess we'll go full transparency so we can put this to bed.

I vouched for Fluff to not die because I will die in her place. However, I am also making an educated guess she is village. I knew she was in my faction (only member I know). While she could be a wolf (hence why I said I don't know her affiliation 100%, I don't see how my role works with her being a wolf unless there are other village abilities to balance it out that when she is killed, a villager would die in her place. Therefore, I am comfortable putting her in my more-likely-village pile.

I did not correct Fluff saying I vouched for her in the same way that she vouched for Nate because I thought that maybe leaving a small bit of mystery in that would help to see that the wolves didn't get ALL the info. (Maybe it also increased my dying odds which when I am a villager I prefer mid game night kill death always )

Anyway that was probably not as coherent as I hoped so I will now take questions I suppose



Yeah, this somewhat sums up the argument as to why I feel fluff is more likely village for now

Thank you so much for giving your perspective, and so sorry it came down to this!

 

[StartingoverVet]

Wow, that explains a lot more than it doesn’t. I never knew.

**********
My first ever game in the Lounge was a JDH game and I had no idea what was going on, and I was in a PM group with DocE and somehow the noob had an important role. He helped me out and by the end complimented me on my insights. That hooked me forever. The second was some insane DocE game I don’t recall. Anyway, sorry for the nostalgia.

Back to making new memories. 😁😁😁
**********

 

[StartingoverVet]

Ok so wow since everything about me is just out on thread now I guess we'll go full transparency so we can put this to bed.

I vouched for Fluff to not die because I will die in her place. However, I am also making an educated guess she is village. I knew she was in my faction (only member I know). While she could be a wolf (hence why I said I don't know her affiliation 100%, I don't see how my role works with her being a wolf unless there are other village abilities to balance it out that when she is killed, a villager would die in her place. Therefore, I am comfortable putting her in my more-likely-village pile.

I did not correct Fluff saying I vouched for her in the same way that she vouched for Nate because I thought that maybe leaving a small bit of mystery in that would help to see that the wolves didn't get ALL the info. (Maybe it also increased my dying odds which when I am a villager I prefer mid game night kill death always )

Anyway that was probably not as coherent as I hoped so I will now take questions I suppose



Yeah, this somewhat sums up the argument as to why I feel fluff is more likely village for now

Tbh, that was all pretty clear to me. I don’t really understand the controversy. You’d be a poor villager to spill every nuance and tidbit of info you had.

 

[alleycat03]

In the last noob game that run a couple weeks ago, wolves were given that option. But it doesn’t happen in every game.

What? I don’t think the noobs got to pick whether they died or were converted 🤔

 

[alleycat03]

(Still Town, but I don't have an additional faction/wincon beyond that)

So now you’re like April and factionless?

 

[Viscernable]

The problem I have with Midwife is I think they are informed and are feigning ignorance, and idk what that means yet

In particular there are some reads that im not sure how they got to

Feigning ignorance about what?

 

[miranda920]

Also

Yeet Miranda

Sorry, my child. But info must be confirmed.

@kaydubs

This yeet hurts most of all. 😿

 

[SARdoghandler]

Tbh, that was all pretty clear to me. I don’t really understand the controversy. You’d be a poor villager to spill every nuance and tidbit of info you had.

I tried. Kept my cards close to my chest but someone kept tapping my shoulder and throwing my cards on the table when I wasn't looking

 

[justafluff]

What? I don’t think the noobs got to pick whether they died or were converted 🤔

No, but on one of the nights, wolves were given the option to do a double kill or convert someone. They chose to convert mightyrunner. That was the night when no one died (N3 or N4 I think)

 

[alleycat03]

Hm. Unless the search engine is stupid, which is always a possibility, SDN says Zenge has not mentioned or interacted with Poppy a single time this game.

And when I looked up Poppy, all I found about Zenge was her parking her vote on him and riding it out all the way to yeet close, staying on him even when he was tied for the lead half an hour before yeet close.






I know that might not be enough for others to consider them unpaired but given this and Zenge's villagey frustration today, I'm not interested in yeeting Zenge

Zenge tries very hard to not bus, but we don’t know if the same is true for Poppy. Idk something just seems off about his tone and the fluff “reveal”

 

[Wiisp]

My last game had a player it was their second game, won F3 lylo, posted like 1300 times, was freaking out under their pressure, wins the game, gets out, "so where can I find another mafia game to join" 😂

 

[alleycat03]

No, but on one of the nights, they were given the option to do a double kill or convert someone. They chose to convert mightyrunner. That was the night when no one died (N3 or N4 I think)

Yes, the wolves got to pick to convert or kill. I think SOV was referring to the NK target being able to choose conversion or die. I don’t think that’s happened since I’ve been playing, except for the 3P skeleton twist we had in anniversary that I mentioned a few posts ago.

 

[justafluff]

Zenge tries very hard to not bus, but we don’t know if the same is true for Poppy. Idk something just seems off about his tone and the fluff “reveal”

Even if you ignore the whole argument about me, outing a bodyguard role on thread is pretty bad.

 

[justafluff]

Yes, the wolves got to pick to convert or kill. I think SOV was referring to the NK target being able to choose conversion or die. I don’t think that’s happened since I’ve been playing, except for the 3P skeleton twist we had in anniversary that I mentioned a few posts ago.

ohhh gotcha. So the NK target would choose.

 

[alleycat03]

Honestly, if Zenge was village & against the church he'd have shot me and SAR and gotten rid of us already.

Wait @Zenge142 I’m confused about your shot. Did you get to use it last night or you’ll get to use it tonight? I was thinking the latter but fluff seems to be implying the former.

 

[justafluff]

Wait @Zenge142 I’m confused about your shot. Did you get to use it last night or you’ll get to use it tonight? I was thinking the latter but fluff seems to be implying the former.

Sorry, I think he picked it up last night. But if he really had an anti-church agenda he wouldn't be defending SAR so much I think. Since the coupling of me and SAR would be a hint that SAR is church too.

 

[NateTheLesser]

Okay I forget what I haven’t read, can someone link this thing?

(Page 66)

 

[alleycat03]

Wow it's so fun to come on thread and find out that despite your best efforts everyone in the game knows your faction AND your ability.

Anyone want my social insurance number while we're at it? I'm sure someone will happily share that too

****
What’s a social insurance number?
****

 

[Viscernable]

I don't intend to test that out but you don't think it'd be outting if wolves were the convenient blind spot in every faction?

I guess this debate isn’t going anywhere productive but I highly doubt every villager has someone who can vouch for them being in their faction, especially if we believe April’s claim of factionless villager which I do (or she could be a villagesiding 3p I guess)

 

[Viscernable]

****
What’s a social insurance number?
****

alley pls

 

[SARdoghandler]

I really feel like fluff/Zenge is v/v tbh

 

[Animal Midwife]

I guess this debate isn’t going anywhere productive but I highly doubt every villager has someone who can vouch for them being in their faction, especially if we believe April’s claim of factionless villager which I do (or she could be a villagesiding 3p I guess)

Exactly my point. So there are also wolves who can be "vouched" for. Though I really had this use of vouch for something so flimsy.

 

[SARdoghandler]

****
What’s a social insurance number?
****

SSN for people that smell like maple syrup

 

[NateTheLesser]

So now you’re like April and factionless?

(I'm factionless, yes)

 

[Aprilthearab]

Zenge tries very hard to not bus, but we don’t know if the same is true for Poppy. Idk something just seems off about his tone and the fluff “reveal”

Given that Poppy was a very new noob, I wouldn't expect her to have a firm stance on bussing yet. So if her first wolf outing was with Zenge (she didn't wolf in the noob game, right?) I imagine she'd follow his guidance, and I don't see him telling her to bus him or approving of her bussing him, especially without having a single on thread interaction