Georgetown or Einstein?

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Georgetown or Einstein?

  • Georgetown

    Votes: 31 40.3%
  • Einstein

    Votes: 46 59.7%

  • Total voters
    77
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jleelee

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I would love any/all insights and opinions! I have to make the decision very soon and I'm stuck in a bit of a gridlock.

Thanks!

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As everyone knows on here, I'm not a super fan of either school. But, given those choices...I'd choose Einstein.

The housing is cheap. They have P/F the first two years. They have better research than Georgetown.

If location is a big deal to you, go with Georgetown. Einstein isn't a great area, whereas G-town is relatively fun and very close to DC. It's also....beautiful there.

Are both equally expensive? Or are there $$$ differences between the schools?
 
I heard good things about both schools. I did interview at Gtown, and thought the surrounding area was cool. But it was FRIGGIN expensive... like 70k easy a year for tuition + living exp. I also didn't like how the Cadaver lab was way the hell down in the basement... that felt a little depressing. Now that said, I don't know much about einstein other than what I read on paper. But it definitely seems like a better choice financially since they are both pretty much in the same class. In terms of research Einstein is the way to go as well like previous poster said.
 
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I interviewed at both - I'm in at GT and still haven't heard from Einstein post-interview -- which is crazy -- so in theory I could have the same choice at some point.

I think they fill roughly the same niche - both very socially conscious philosophies, emphasis on primary care, etc. Georgetown is definitely in a better area, but if you're into underserved populations then Einstein wins. I don't know if the religious angle bothers you, but obviously GT is a Catholic institution, with all that entails. Einstein has P/F pre-clinical years and Georgetown doesn't. Yes Einstein has better research in general, but if you're into health policy GT is better. Although Einstein does partially pay for you to do a MPH at another school, which is great.

I think I'm leaning more GT, but that has more to do with the "feel" of the two schools, and the specifics of my situation (the Jewish community at Einstein was much too religious for me) than anything else.

Good luck figuring it out, they are both awesome options!
 
I agree with these two posts. Gtown has a lot to offer but as far as research is concerned Einstein is better, they are at the forefront of medical genetics research. Gtown seems to have pretty good clinical training but I am sure Einstein does as well. Location is a big win for gtown... the Bronx is not somewhere I would like to live. I do disagree that gtown is always way too expensive. They were very generous with financial aid, at least in my case, and gave me 20K a year. That makes them about as cheap as my state school. There is no way however, to get away from the fact that DC is an expensive city to live in. Ultimately you see the pros and cons of both schools, both of them are good programs which will give you a great opportunity to go far.
 
If it were literally any other schools, this question would be totally inappropriate, but what is your religion? Or...if you are not religious, does Judaism or Catholicism resonate with you?

Both schools have religious affiliations that have an influence on their overall philosophy, the types of students they attract, and in some cases, the type of medicine they teach.
 
i interviewed at both schools and will be attending gtown (withdrew from einstein's wl):

georgetown:
-pros: far better location imo, more name recognition, part of a school environment since it's connected to the undergrad, hoya basketball
-cons: expensive, could have up to 400 people in class because of the masters students-you're not competing with them for grades though

einstein:
-pros: better research, very diverse patient population, ranked higher
-cons-the bronx, jewish influence-library not open on sat and only kosher food in cafeteria


both seem to have great international and volunteer opportunities. i also got the impression that students at both schools were very happy. for me, it mostly came down to location and overall feeling of fit. good luck!
 
i interviewed at both schools and will be attending gtown (withdrew from einstein's wl):

georgetown:
-pros: far better location imo, more name recognition, part of a school environment since it's connected to the undergrad, hoya basketball
-cons: expensive, could have up to 400 people in class because of the masters students-you're not competing with them for grades though

einstein:
-pros: better research, very diverse patient population, ranked higher
-cons-the bronx, jewish influence-library not open on sat and only kosher food in cafeteria


both seem to have great international and volunteer opportunities. i also got the impression that students at both schools were very happy. for me, it mostly came down to location and overall feeling of fit. good luck!

congrats btw on getting in!
 
Don't know about Einstein, but Gtown's library and facilities SUCK!
 
Thanks for the post Mdeast! Pack a snack, because my response is kinda long. I apologize in advance! But also appreciate your insights :)

So Einstein is about $6000 cheaper per year, but I wouldn't need a car at Georgetown for the first 2 years and would need one at Einstein. So I would say knock off another $2000 from the difference for car insurance, gas, etc and now we're down to $4000 cheaper per year. Ultimately, I'm not choosing based on $$ because if I had, I would have gone to U. of Iowa (where they gave me a $10,000 a year scholarship). That's not to say that financing med school will be easy, but I've been advised by many docs to not choose a school for financial purposes unless it's at least half the tuition per year.

So my big dilemma is that my top two deal-breakers are research and location. Haha, just my luck right? Georgetown wins with location (meaning: quality of living, quality of and accessibility to study spaces, accessibility of food/groceries, activities outside of med school…just having an environment that will balance me out and foster my overall well-being). But Einstein wins with research (meaning for me: more (global) public health, public health research and clinical experiences with underserved populations).

Sometimes I feel like Georgetown talks the talk more than they walk the walk when it comes to the Jesuit mission (I'm not religious, but I'm in love with the social justice message that is coterminous with a Jesuit education). The student body is less diverse than desired, the area around the school is mostly elitest and white and I just can't find the breadth/depth of faculty memebers that substantiate the school's emphasis on social justice. Perhaps this is because Georgetown pales in comparison to Einstein's public health and social medicine research, programs and opportunities. Take for instance, the fact that Einstein has "social medicine rounds," is one of the few schools in the nation that offers a Family and Social Medicine residency, that they financially support iniatives in global health, subsidize a MPH and have clinical rotations in much more ethnically and socioeconomically diverse hospitals. I haven't found anything similar at Georgetown. Now, at Georgetown there are global health opportunities, a free health clinic and selectives/4th year electives and research opportunities in health policy (another aspect of public health that I am passionate about). But I just sense that the enterprise of primary care/social medicine/social justice is not nearly as cohesive at Georgetown than it is at Einstein. Not to mention that most of Georgetown graduates specialize, whereas Einstein's emphasis on "generalist medicine" is reflected the number of graduates who go into primary care. And both have impressive matchlists, so it can probably be assumed that the choice to go into primary care was elective.

BUT - Einstein's location is just terrible (for me - I'm not trying to bash the school in general). The library is miniscule, the 24 study space is small as well. And all students I asked mentioned that study space (or lack thereof) is one of their top complaints. This is huge for me because I don't like studying in my bedroom. I've read many of your posts about Einstein and wholly share your sentiments and concerns regarding the area in which Einstein is located, the feeling of isolation and the bleakness of the school and the surrounding area. This is also huge, because I don't want to feel like I'm on a concrete island or have to make a 20 minute drive during daylight hours just to get the nearest Stop & Shop or take a 45 minute bus ride to get an area that engages a lot of my non-med school interests (whereas DC not only has a greater number and more easily accessible food/extracurriculars but also a plethora of opportunities for health policy and medically related NGO work outside the school).

So basically, I'm at a standstill. Each school is stronger in 1 of my 2 top priorities. I just don't see myself being happy at Einstein in terms of overall well-being, but I can't help be feel like Einstein will better engage my passion and curiosity in regards to global health issues, public health and social medicine.

I also reflect your opinions on Sinai vs. Einstein, but I unfortunately don't have the option to choose, since I didn't interview at Sinai. I was accepted at U.Iowa, U. Hawaii, Georgetown, Einstein, SLU, Creighton and Loyola. Waitlisted at NYU and Baylor. So yes, ideally I'd like to be in Manhattan, but I don't have the fortune of selection :)

Sorry for the length again!
 
Ooh! While I was writing my mini manifesto a whole bunch of other people replied. Thank you all! Give me some time to catch up :)
 
Ooh! While I was writing my mini manifesto a whole bunch of other people replied. Thank you all! Give me some time to catch up :)

after reading your last post, it kind of seems to me like you might be happier at georgetown. i'm pretty positive they'd help you find whatever kind of research you're looking for, even if it's not as prominent as it is at einstein. being in dc would give you tons of options with the nih or health policy, if georgetown itself doesn't have something you need. as far as global health, i got the feeling that gtown really stresses student involvement-40% of their students do an international elective, whereas only 20% of med students as a whole take part in international health. to me, you have a lot more control over what you get involved in than over a location, which you can't really do anything about. i know that living in the bronx would make me feel really isolated, whereas dc is awesome even if the population is somewhat elitist/homogenous, especially in the gtown area. i guess it really just depends what you decide your priority is, which i realize is a tough thing to figure out!
 
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Hmm this is really tough. I agree that Gtown is a lot of "talk" about the Jesuit philosophies. I was really excited about this when writing the admissions essay (I went to a Quaker undergraduate school, and the school mission really reminded me of that philosophy). However, on interview day, I didn't get any sense from the administration that this sort of environment existed at Georgetown. And yes, I've expressed my feelings about that before. It's clear though, that DC is close by and living in Georgetown is just a more comfortable, great environment than living in the Bronx (outside of clinical training, etc.).

Reading your last post, I might change my vote to Georgetown. I'm highly location-based, and it seems like you value this too. And to be honest, one can be successful from any medical school really....so why not be successful at a place that your life outside of medical school will be awesome too? I'd talk to some more AECOM students about social life if you can grab them. I know way less about the global health differences between the schools so that's up in the air.

I still think AECOM is definitely a better institution...but if you really value location, go where you'll be happier. There's really absolutely no point in being miserable in the Bronx for 4 years if that's not what you want.
 
I understand your concerns about location, but I feel like those are things that you can and will work out. You're not going to be able to change an institution and the way education is delivered to you. If you feel that Einstein is a better fit academically, go with that. On the other hand, I agree with jackson that you have more control over what you choose to do academically than over location. Tough choice... go with einstein

*disclaimer: i'm really trying to get off the cap at georgetown...
 
Same exact situation here.

Location is also a big deal for me so here are my thoughts.

Georgetown's location is pretty awesome but from what I understand the immediate area around the school is extremely expensive and many of the students end up comuting from elsewhere in DC or even Maryland or Virginia. So though you might get to go to school in an amazing area you won't necessarily be living there.

As for Einstein, while the Bronx is in general somewhat bleak the area around the school is not so bad (though it is a bit on the boring side). Furthermore you are a 40min subway ride/ 30min express bus ride/quick car ride from the middle of Manhattan so that's an upside. Also, the housing is really nice and really cheap. Furthermore, the fact that most Einstein students live in the dorms gives the school a sense of community and leads to a fun a experience. Im kinda scared that the fact that G-Town is a commuter school might detract from the level of community among classmates.

Anyone happen to have any info on where exactly most g-town students live? Im still a bit fuzzy on that and want to make sure the statements I made above are accurate.
 
You can always live in UES and commute to AECOM, that's something that I'm considering. Yes, it's 30-40 minutes added to your day (each way), but I'm more of a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too, kind of person. This way, I get the amenities, study environments, and connection to non-medical interests of being in Manhattan mixed with the amazing opportunities and educational benefits of attending AECOM. Like you, location is very important to me since I went to a residential liberal arts college in the middle of nowhere, I've always wanted to try more of an urban experience for med. However, I'm reluctant to "throw" away an excellent learning opportunity on simply location alone. Since, let's face it, when you're in the throws of 1st and 2nd year classes you're not going to have THAT much time to enjoy your surroundings. Yet, its still very much so important to my general well-being and happiness.

Yes, it will cost a bit more. But, I'm the kind of person who would grow to enjoy that commute every day, giving me time to pre-read review lectures, a bit of time to reflect on the day ahead, etc...

What also encouraged me to do this is that a)3rd year you can do a lot of your rotations at BI in Manhattan and b)if I were to go to Georgetown it would still be a 30 minute commute if you include waiting for and taking the GUTS bus or just in walking time.
 
You can always live in UES and commute to AECOM, that's something that I'm considering. Yes, it's 30-40 minutes added to your day (each way), but I'm more of a have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too, kind of person. This way, I get the amenities, study environments, and connection to non-medical interests of being in Manhattan mixed with the amazing opportunities and educational benefits of attending AECOM. Like you, location is very important to me since I went to a residential liberal arts college in the middle of nowhere, I've always wanted to try more of an urban experience for med. However, I'm reluctant to "throw" away an excellent learning opportunity on simply location alone. Since, let's face it, when you're in the throws of 1st and 2nd year classes you're not going to have THAT much time to enjoy your surroundings. Yet, its still very much so important to my general well-being and happiness.

Yes, it will cost a bit more. But, I'm the kind of person who would grow to enjoy that commute every day, giving me time to pre-read review lectures, a bit of time to reflect on the day ahead, etc...

What also encouraged me to do this is that a)3rd year you can do a lot of your rotations at BI in Manhattan and b)if I were to go to Georgetown it would still be a 30 minute commute if you include waiting for and taking the GUTS bus or just in walking time.

Getting a decent unsubsidized apartment on the UES is going to be exorbitantly more expensive that living in Einstein housing, especially if you can't find roommates. Then you factor in the hassle of commuting and the extra pricetag of commuting. I just don't think this is a super viable option. What's the point of living in Manhattan if you come exhausted from commuting everyday?
 
Yet, and still, the cost associate with doing such a thing would only add about $3,000 to the cost of attendance when compared to Georgetown's $73,000 price tag.

I made the commute from AECOM to UES on interview day and found it far from exhausting. Boarding the subway at 7:30 am, I made it to campus at 8 am promptly. It was very exhilarating in fact, to ride public transportation with the patient population that I could be potential treating -- it was a grounding experience. Furthermore, I have friends at AECOM and they say most people study in their apartments, since the school lacks many public study spaces, so you won't really miss out on after-class "study-bonding."

Ultimately, I find it to be a very satisfying solution to a very nerve-wrecking decision. Why turn down a great place like AECOM (with p/f and no internal rankings the first two years!) because of location.

Just thought I'd share the possibilities.
 
Take it for what you will, but Georgetown is the only school that I've known to have kids find ways to transfer out of their MD program because of the unrelenting competitiveness of the student body. I wouldn't put too much weight on it, but that was the opinion of the two kids I know that have done this.
 
Tough choice. Probably Georgetown.
 
Take it for what you will, but Georgetown is the only school that I've known to have kids find ways to transfer out of their MD program because of the unrelenting competitiveness of the student body. I wouldn't put too much weight on it, but that was the opinion of the two kids I know that have done this.

You are correct. Every year there are at least 2-3 positions available for students to transfer into Gtown b/c some decide to leave.
 
You are correct. Every year there are at least 2-3 positions available for students to transfer into Gtown b/c some decide to leave.

curious to know where u got this information at?
 
If I were to choose between these two schools I would probably pick Einstein. I liked Einstein more than Georgetown on my visits there for interview/second look.

Georgetown: I love DC. DC is a great place to live and there is a lot to do/a lot around in terms of options. If you like research there is NIH, Gtown, GW, AIR and a couple other institutions nearby. If you love politics, you have capitol hill, white house and other places right there. I just didn't get a good feel at Georgetown and would probably take GW if I wasn't waitlisted there over Georgetown. The students I met were very clique-ish and they said that is basically how things run there. I heard horror stories from a recent graduate of the medical school, masters student and an undergrad student. They spoke of the lackluster facilities, administration and type of students (competitive, deceiving) matriculating there. But take it with a grain of salt because its only the account of a few people.

Einstein: As a native new yorker I can tell you that the Bronx is not as bad or as far from Manhattan as many people who came for a day or a couple hours and got a glimpse of it will tell you. A half hour commute one way is nothing at all and is definitely less than the average new yorker's commute to work or school in the morning. For convenience I would definitely say you should start off in the Bronx at least for the first year until you get a better feel for the environment before you try to brave it in UES/Harlem or wherever. A car would be more convenient to travel to the city but you have horrible parking situations if you try to park in the city in many places especially on the weekends so it would be hard to say you would be gaining a lot more time. Most of my friends have to park far away from an area of interest, ditch the car for the day and go back to pick it up later before they go home. Buying a metro card is easy and using the bus and train to get to Manhattan is not as bad as many people would make it seem. Yea AECOM is kind of in the middle of nowhere, quiet and not much fun in its immediate area but its cheap. I would much rather not live in the hustle and bustle of Manhattan but go there to hang out and party then come home to my quiet residence in the Bronx as many of my friends do. AECOM's global health and underserved programs are very strong, which I know is something that you are interested in. It is a reputable institution with very good faculty and strong training for those who want to do primary care because of its focus and facilities. It also has some strong research going on there and in its facilities as my lab has done many collaborations with AECOM faculty.
 
I was waiting to post until I had my second-look day so that I could work out all of my reflections on the day, post them and hash it out with everyone here (btw - thanks to everyone for spending the time to offer your opinion!).

Had my second look Tuesday. My third look today (just drove through the area further west of Einstein toward Fordham) and now? I'm sold. I'm definitely choosing Einstein. Not necessarily because my lifestyle issues were solved. The apartments are still pretty bad and the library situation is not ideal (although I was informed that Einstein students can study at Fordham library for free and the library is gorgeous! And only an 8 minute drive in traffic - I timed it today). But rather, I met with some recent graduates who have had some incredible global health experiences, whose stories are inspirational and were made possible by Einstein and I just cannot think of a better fit for me and my goals in medicine.

It's worth having only an average place to live to be at an institution that will financially, administratively and ideologically support my social justice and global health endeavors. And although the Bronx is ghetto and the only place that resembles modern civilization is the sole Starbucks across the street from campus, it also has the underserved patient population with which I want to be working. And I love how much Einstein is integrated into the Bronx community - in terms of both health promotion and advocacy.

I found out today that Georgetown will most likely no longer fund international rotations. I also took a good look at where Gtown students do clinical rotations and it just doesn't provide me the exposure I would like with underserved populations. Issues that just further contribute to my questioning whether or not Georgetown could really help to shape me into the kind of physician I would like to become.

So. I've finally achieved the clarity I needed. Yay! And thank you all again for your input!! Now I'm going to go buy myself some pepper spray.... ;-)
 
Sounds like you found the right fit for you. Congrats and good luck
 
And although the Bronx is ghetto and the only place that resembles modern civilization is the sole Starbucks across the street from campus

:laugh:

I'm glad you made the decision! Good luck, and have fun!
 
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