im going into my rover appointment now; it would be fantastically courteous of you if you didnt speak on my behalf or indirectly throw jabs my way while i’m away. thanks xoxo
I’d consider it but I’m feeling like sleep is just wolves manipulating us off a wolf vote. I’m about to drive to work. Will check in when I grab food on my way.
I’d consider it but I’m feeling like sleep is just wolves manipulating us off a wolf vote. I’m about to drive to work. Will check in when I grab food on my way.
It's not, I'm telling you, wolves don't want sleep here, it's too risky for them to let the game go into a night cycle where their kill could be interfered with or village could get more info.
If we don't have the votes for sleep and no one comes in with a big new revelation, I will move to vampy, even if it ends up being a tie. In which case, nice knowing y'all, we're all gonna die 🫡
Christ. The difference is things could be found out overnight to help clarify the situation. Or maybe I won't be the kill, which would be interesting (and terrible). Or idk, whichever of lissa or mkg isn't wolfing has some time to reflect on their choices.
If we don't have the votes for sleep and no one comes in with a big new revelation, I will move to vampy, even if it ends up being a tie. In which case, nice knowing y'all, we're all gonna die 🫡
D1: Kinda null? Did some normal nooby stuff, had a normal hedgey reads list, there is nothing to unpair her with PSV or vampy.
Since this came up, I no longer give noobs points for asking these questions in thread, because I've been fooled by it more than once. In fact, if I'm wolfing with a noob, I tell them to ask these questions in thread instead of wolfchat because people will subconsciously (or consciously) associate it with noob purity, and will associate a noob that knows too much with wolfiness.
This isn't a wolf point, it's just null.
Not much I can do with this initial reads list. I did chuckle again at the classic early dubz read.
This had actually been asked and answered more than once, but it does make sense to ask in conjunction with her reads
Big hedge on PSV, big support on vampy
This was the third vote on mads and the rest of everything was still pretty spread out
N1: This is where I start to note this interesting pattern of beans just...continually reversing her reads. She goes from wanting to follow the evidence pointing to me/mads as a pack, to being suspicious of KJQ and Greedy for bringing those thoughts up in the first place, to saying jk they're probably town but WHAT IF. It's very interesting and continues to be kind of a thing throughout the game? I don't know what to make of it.
D2: This is the only point where I could say she did anything that might have been anti-PSV, but it easily could have been distancing, so I don't think I can categorize it as anything but null.
More nooblet questions, just noting them
This is good but AM would say I should ignore D2 stuff
This made the 5th vote on PSV. Not really clearing in any way.
After mkg shot PSV, beans hopped on the mads wagon like everyone else, nothing interesting to see there.
N2: Just establishing where her reads were at post-PSV and mads flip. The POE here is not great (if I'm right about Zenge) but I can't much hold that against people, I've surely missed wolves in a POE of that size.
D3: And then we come back to the ice cream use on vampy. Honest misunderstanding or trying to pass off a fake green check on a packmate? And I am curious why it was used on vampy at all, given how confident beans said she was in the vampy town read? Why not use it within her POE? This is something I'd like answered @beans2020
This part is hard for me though, because if it is vampy/beans then I have a hard time figuring out this backtracking, unless she felt she'd been caught out since genny pointed out the item was supposed to give role and not affiliation.
However, even after it was pointed out as being incorrect, she and vampy have continued to reference it as a reason to give vampy village points for a while (beans stopped doing this after about a day, but vampy continued to reference it today)
How'd she know I'm an experienced player, who has she been talking to?!?!?
Kidding. But Zenge pointed out some of the illogical things about this post. I don't overall hate it and can see it coming from a village perspective, but it's a lot of parroting what other people were saying about me already and isn't nearly the "incriminating evidence" she said it was.
The vote for me was at least consistent with earlier thoughts and the people on me were among her village reads, so fine.
N3: More of the reads flip flopping without much work shown on why. I, again, just...I don't even know.
Honestly this is just a wild thought to arrive at after the nonsense Zenge pulled at the end of D3 but
I can't decide if it's more or less wild than this reversal??
I just don't know what to make of this almost complete flip flop of her reads, particularly on vampy/genny/mkg. It's hard for me to read this as wolfy when it would have been simpler to just continue pushing me and Zenge with AM and Greedy.
Obviously wolves don't always do the easy/simple thing. But just...what's the motive here?
D4: I am just...confused tbh
EXACTLY WHAT A WOLF WOULD SAY (kidding, sort of)
But then like D4 starts and she's flippity floppitying again
Multiple conversion theories are wolfy without evidence!!!111!! (no one point out I've said similar things)
God I don't even know, like why would a wolf being doing this much wavering back and forth on two villagers, make it make sense, like I get it could be performative to look like a confused noob but...well yeah I guess that's it. I give this null points.
N4:I would like to know why beans started turning on vampy? I just don't see the progression on thread. I also don't understand why I keep dropping in and out of her POE.
A good line of questioning, which again looks good for Zenge/beans unpairing but not sure it means anything for beans's affiliation
flippity floopity floppity
And I actually can't follow at all why she started to turn on vampy, which is interesting, and I could see being some distancing at this stage, but it also could be honest reevaluation. I just need to see the work.
After that it's just stuff today, which I can't bring myself to analyze, there's too much that can be manipulated when you know you only need one more misyeet to win.
CONCLUSION: ???????
This was not nearly as helpful as I was hoping it would be. There isn't anything unpairing her with PSV, and nothing strong unpairing her with vampy, but I just can't get an independent read here at all. GTH: nooblet.
i agree with all of this and have no notes minus the nooblet comment, she could easily have been coached in a wolf chat to say exactly what needs to be said. if PSV truly had no idea she was going to be killed in the middle of a game, then beans needed to be coached asap by other wolf to stay under the radar and maintain noob naivity
i agree with all of this and have no notes minus the nooblet comment, she could easily have been coached in a wolf chat to say exactly what needs to be said. if PSV truly had no idea she was going to be killed in the middle of a game, then beans needed to be coached asap by other wolf to stay under the radar and maintain noob naivity
Which is a terrible way to feel at endgame but I truly didn't see anything that stood out as particularly wolfy, and like I said before it's really hard for me to go against a consensus from flipped villagers if I don't land on a strong read myself.
Since he's the talk of the town, I'm starting with
A Zenge Analysis: Part 1
(some of this is consolidation from my prior posts)
The Case of Zenge & PSV: Day 1
He started the day with a post in support of PSV, but with an hour prior to vote close this had changed
Day 1, about 11 hours to go in the day
Later, less than an hour to go on the day, after votes have piled onto PSV and then moved to samac
This would be a pretty big reversal in how he usually treats packmates. It would be one thing if PSV was guaranteed to go down, but votes had moved off of her and he then started pushing back against the village wagon they had moved to, and calling PSV sus himself. Votes very easily could have moved back to PSV in these circumstances, when they didn't need to. Of course, as with D2, this would be a lot more clear if he'd moved there himself, but alas, couldn't be that easy.
I asked him what changed his mind about PSV in that timeframe, which he refused to answer despite my asking multiple times, but looking through PSV's posts it would make sense that his view of her changed based on her continued push on samac and her [apparently, though she denied this] thinking that she and Zenge were seriously voting for each other earlier...the same reason samac's view of her changed. ALTHOUGH it can be noted that both of them INITIALLY said she was pure/they liked her after the first time she voiced samac concerns, which was kind of interesting.
Anyway these were some of PSV's posts between when Zenge initially said he liked her so far and when he put her in that proposed pack with genny and mads (note: there is an alternative "rule of threes" interpretation possible there). Not all of her posts but the ones I could see a v!Zenge who has a village read on samac eyeing with suspicion.
I would have loved not to have had to speculate on this instead of getting a straight answer from Zenge himself, but here we are. At any rate I can understand the change in opinion coming from a v!Zenge, and I think it makes less sense for a w!Zenge to do this. Even if he wanted to look good by defending samac, he could have easily tied the situation with her and PSV together (they had both been absent when votes started to pile on them) instead of pushing people away from the samac vote and ostensibly towards the PSV one.
I think on the whole his treatment of PSV D1 leans village
- The point that triggered me during the transition from D4 to N4 when I started to lose my mind was the realization that he never actually voted for PSV D2, as I noted here
If taken at face value, it looks like Zenge appeared on thread Sunday morning having missed genny's claim, eventually caught up, and then started pushing things towards PSV without voting there. mkg then asked him a question about his reads list, he lost his marbles over it (can confirm this also immediately came up in the PM we had at the time), mkg shot PSV while he was in the middle of this, and he also missed that she pre-claimed the shot.
Of course, any of that timing/reaction could be faked. I think it's up to everyone to decide whether they think it was genuine or not.
Note that Zenge also liked the post where I said I wanted to hear more from Lissa before jumping on PSV, and didn't say anything to me about the various posts I made where I was thinking through the possibility of PSV telling the truth, so it's a little strange that he went so hard at vampy over it.
There was a direct interaction between Zenge and PSV here, I include it for completeness but I don't think it can be used much for analysis since there is not much here that couldn't be faked. It felt wrong to leave it out though.
On the whole, I think Zenge's behavior specifically in regards to PSV and her outting D2 is slightly wolf leaning
i think this actually reads as a town trying to read town, rather than trying to get their packmate to make claims and get a more village read out on the thread so PSV is not potentially yeeted
It seemed important to chronicle the progression of Zenge's behavior towards mkg in the middle of PSV being outted and mkg shooting her. Given Zenge's wolfing history I do think it would be within his range to bring up the mkg stuff initially in order to avoid voting a packmate.
The tinfoiling about mkg shooting PSV for the cred is...honestly more in line with village!Zenge though, and given I had and continue to have similar thoughts, it's hard for me to wolf read it (beyond the fact that I often have wolfy thoughts...)
A bit prior to mkg announcing she was going to shoot PSV:
(He then directs her to the reads list he posted, ostensibly after catching up and seeing genny's claim)
And then
(literally minutes later)
Here it looks like Zenge missed mkg's claim, but then in the next post it seems like he did see and just...didn't make the connection??
And then the tinfoiling begins immediately
(this is referring back to mkg's question about Clem and beans)
So while my initial thought is "Wow bringing up mkg while this other stuff is going on sure seems like it could be wolfy if he was trying to avoid voting for PSV" I think continuing to push it in an environment where it's going to make him look bad does not make much sense for a wolf!Zenge. I don't feel like quoting the entire argument with AM once she subbed in, y'all can go read that for yourselves.
Actually the wolfiest part of things in my opinion was that he then pivoted away from it when it actually might have mattered and pushed Greedy instead. But that kind of thing in addition to the crux of his read on Greedy being a bit stretchy but him being SO sure about it, is just...that's just village Zenge.
I can see an argument where he decides to pivot away from mkg because of how much of a fight it was going to be to get that to go through, and because if she's village it would reveal the wrongness of his reading card. However, I just don't think a wolf!Zenge continues to push it in the first place if those were concerns. Wolf!Zenge just says "Oh. You shot PSV. Sorry, I was paranoid for a minute there, carry on!", there is just no need to go against the grain and get himself sussed over it when his goal should really be getting himself cleared since he's just lost his convert. There is no wolfy agenda that makes sense for an mkg push in this gamestate.
On balance, I think Zenge's treatment of mkg leans somewhat village
Not until I was scrolling back looking for it to update the TOC, which I then didn't do because I got distracted by the tally being a disaster and also I'm trying to write a discharge at the same time to make tomorrow!me's life a little easier
Mid-Day 0 so probably doesn't matter but for completeness
Day 1
The first unpairing interaction would be on day 2 when Zenge was pushing vampy for the "soft defense" of PSV, and her reaction and then him entirely shutting down the conversation to be like "eh clam down I'm not gonna vote you until Thursday or Saturday" does not strike me as w/w
Day 2:
Later D2/N2 stuff, doesn't really lean either way for me
After mads flip, subject is Greedy
Clipped reads list
D3
soon after D3 closed
Not really important just for completeness
Pushback on the mkg read doesn't feel w/w
More N3, less useful for analysis
and a brief questioning of the lie detector item
As we move into D4 it becomes a little bit more difficult to categorize interactions because it depends entirely on how much panic a w!Zenge would have been in about the likelihood of his being yoten, if he therefore would have asked partners to distance/bus (as I have seen him do before), and how willing said partner(s) would have been to do so
However I will still present the posts!
(in regards to AM dying)
He then reiterated this point and tagged vampy when Greedy said AM was right and wouldn't shut up about it and so had to die. That in particular doesn't strike me as w/w, idk, just something about it doesn't feel like distancing as much as Zenge actually trying to convince vampy.
I feel the same way about this interaction response from Zenge after vampy asked Greedy why he was voting for Zenge instead of himself
(as a response to Greedy)
The unpairing in the prior interactions is undermined a bit by this
I think the strongest stuff we've got here is in day 2, followed by some weaker stuff from day 4. There is a lot of null otherwise and not really anything where I go "OMG THIS IS A PARTNER INTERACTION FOR SURE!" I can't say much about today because it would be full distancing time at this point in a w!Zenge world, so I don't think any partnering analysis is super valid.
ETA: there were a couple other D2 things that I think I lost the quotes for? I can try to find it but it was vampy saying Clem was unreadable and it was best to vote him early, Zenge accusing her of copying his homework from another game, and later me pointing out that the post of his he compared it to was from when he was wolfing. Then he was like "yeah that was intentional" and he and vampy got into a little tiff over it lol
Conclusion: Zenge/vampy is a possible but unlikely pairing
i disagree with this pairing for the obvious reason i’m not a wolf. the back and forth him and i had were genuine. also yes, there was a comment about me copying his homework when i had actually mentioned yeeting clem whether town or not out earlier because he is so difficult to read.
i disagree with this pairing for the obvious reason i’m not a wolf. the back and forth him and i had were genuine. also yes, there was a comment about me copying his homework when i had actually mentioned yeeting clem whether town or not out earlier because he is so difficult to read.
As co-mayor I promised to get rid of evil wolves in our town, I didn’t realize we were going the mass-suicide route to achieve this goal but I understand I guess
my phone keeps crashing when i’m loading pages so incase i cant restart my phone in time:
i think zenges behavior this last day and night are very telling. i feel almost deja vu after what happened with mission impowwsible. dropping the game and not wanting to help is reminiscent of greedy, who i believe he also criticized for doing this? (if he didnt then my apologies for misinformation). his little comments today turned me off of him entirely and he wasnt even my original vote, but he ended up messing it up for himself with the ATE. just icky, reminds me of mission impowwsible and i was right in that game so i’m sticking to my gut.
By the fifth day of Goatapalooza, the sweet scent of alfalfa and funnel cake had soured into suspicion. What had once been a jubilant gathering of hooved harmony had split like a hoof on hot gravel. Sharp tones echoed across the meadow, where once there had only been folk songs and bleating laughter. Now, there were muttered threats, stomping hooves, and pointed glares.
The goats had divided - cleanly, bitterly. Half stood behind Gwendolyn Hoofspark the Baffling, whose glittering horns and confounding statements had earned her a hefty amount of suspicion and a cloud of controversy. Half the goats argued that her actions made no sense for a covert member of Bad Nooz. The other half? They wanted her gone.
"'Cause baby, now we got baa-ad blood…"
The chant started low from the crowd as a young Alpine goat kicked over a decorative salt lick. "You know it used to be mad love..."
Some goats accused Gwendolyn of sabotaging the hay sculpture contest by sprinkling lavender in the alfalfa, which, while calming, had rendered the hay too floppy for structural integrity. Others whispered about her puzzling behavior at the night market.
"Why does she keep choosing the items that don't do anything," they murmured.
"Who does that?"
"Who needs that?"
Gwendolyn had no regrets about her umbrella choice. She'd looked so cute. So whimsical.
“She’s on fire,” hissed an old Boer, pointing with a shaking hoof.
And indeed, Gwendolyn did appear to be lightly smoldering — faint orange embers flickering across her mysterious cloak. But she waved it off with a weary sigh. “I don't think it's the dangerous kind,” she said softly, as if that explained anything. Truthfully, she didn't know. But it didn't seem like her biggest problem.
"Band-aids don't fix big hoof holes..."
Tensions came to a head during the vote. Goats gathered, bleating over each other, arguing over Gwendolyn’s odd silences, her confusing riddles, her seemingly out-of-nowhere changes of heart.
Gwendolyn stood silently before them all, smoke curling gently from her ears. Her eyes shimmered with sadness — or maybe ash.
“I only wanted to help,” she said. “I’ve seen things beyond the hedge. The dew knows my name. The frogs sing for me at midnight. You just don’t understand.”
"Still got scars on my soul from your hooves…"
But belief had dried up like the communal watering trough. One by one, the goats stepped forward, placing their votes into the overturned milk bucket that served as the ballot box. The clangs echoed like funeral bells.
When the count was read, it was final.
Gwendolyn was out.
The meadow was silent as she slowly turned away. The embers on her back flickered out. Her head drooped. No riddles. No sparkles. No baffling phrases. Just defeat.
She walked away from the circle, past the night market where her trinkets had come from, her cape trailing behind her like a torn dream.
"So take a look what you’ve done…”
"'Cause baby, now we got bad blood."
The goats cheered — some with relief, others with resignation. The fun had not returned. Not yet.
But Gwendolyn Hoofspark the Baffling was gone.
And she was not having fun.
Dead is...
@Zenge142, Gwendolyn Hoofspark the Baffling, and a...
vanilla villager
You are Gwendolyn Hoofspark the Baffling. You believe gravity is optional and often float slightly when excited (can't keep you down with that attitude!). You invented a dance called “The Gutter Flop.”
No one ever expected the fifth day of Goatapalooza to descend into pure, smoldering chaos — not even Commander Floppleton of the Snout, proud mayor of Gruffendale, veteran of the Parade of Pennants, and long-time judge of the Inter-Flock Fencing Finals. He had arrived on Day Zero with bells polished, beard trimmed, and after that fateful day, his official Gruffendale sash fluttering in the wind like a flag of honor.
He shook hooves, passed out festival maps with hoof-drawn doodles, and personally oversaw the installation of the saltwater taffy trough. No one could question his dedication. But something… changed.
It started innocently — an after-hours bonfire rant about the unethical price surge of tickets through Hoofmaster. “It’s theft,” he declared, eyes wild, “scalpership of the highest order!” He stomped so hard he cracked a commemorative mug.
But today, he had only one focus: Gwendolyn Hoofspark the Baffling.
"Did you have to do this? I was thinking this was mutual..."
Their feud began at sunrise, when she snuck sea glass into his breakfast mash, “to cleanse the aura.” He claimed it was sabotage. She claimed he was spiritually clogged.
By noon, they were nose-to-nose near the Petting Zoo Poetry Slam, shrieking about “cursed trinkets” and “rigged votes” while kids cried and a nervous llama pretended to be asleep.
“You’ve bewitched this festival,” the Commander bleated, flinging his sash behind him dramatically.
“And you’ve tricked everyone, but the gig is up,” Gwendolyn snapped, her cloak billowing with smoke that may or may not have been from a small magical fire.
No one knew who was right.
By sunset, it came to a vote. And the result? A deadlock. Half for Gwendolyn, half for the Commander.
Gasps. Bleats. Panic.
Festival officials consulted the Sacred Binder of Goatapalooza Policies (second edition, spiral-bound, stickers on the last page, and with a ribbon that served as a bookmark), and a solution was offered: Whoever the festival itself rejected… must leave.
A coin was flipped. Death was on the line.
But random chance spoke, and a small shiba inu was only granted so much death, instead of the so much death she craved.
"Now we got baaa-ad blood..."
As the last rays of sun sank beneath the hills, the meadow watched with silent anticipation as Gwendolyn began to walk — slowly, theatrically — toward the distant pasture. Her hooves barely touched the ground. Her eyes flashed violet (though that may have been the light).
The Commander’s followers erupted into cheers. “Justice!” they cried. “Gruffendale stands tall!”
Commander Floppleton adjusted his sash, stood proudly atop a compost bin, and began a small speech about integrity and proper community engagement—
—only to feel an unmistakable shove.
He staggered forward, blinking, stunned.
The bouncers stood firm at the gate, horned and humorless. “That’s festival policy,” one said flatly, not meeting his eyes.
“You’ve been deemed… Bad Nooz.”
"You made a really baaaa-d cut…"
“I what?!” Floppleton shrieked, scandalized. “I helped run this festival! I arranged the haystack talent show! I choreographed the Salt Lick Sync-Off! You can’t—this must be an error of governance!”
But the gate closed behind him with a creak like destiny. His followers froze, confused. The pasture stretched before him — endless, cold, goatless.
“I am Commander Floppleton!” he cried into the void. “I was never Bad Nooz! I was necessary!”
"And baby, now we got baaad blood…"
Back in the meadow, the air was still. No one cheered this time. Both of them were gone.
And somewhere near the hills, two goats — one lightly smoldering, one loudly fuming — stared into opposite horizons, each convinced that justice had not been served.
Dead is...
@vampyrica, Commander Floppleton of the Snout, and a...
vanilla villager converted to wolf
You are Commander Floppleton of the Snout. You run an underground cheese racket and believe squirrels are spies. You wear mismatched socks on purpose to confuse the wind.