Mayo vs. Emory

[paki20]

Sooo confused..both are great schools..only have a week to decide

Emory is offering me $30,000 in need-based grants for first year (tuition per year that I will have to pay: ~$13,000, total cost of attendance in loans per year: $45,000, $180,000 in loans over 4 years)

Mayo will be offering me ~$25,000/year in guaranteed grants (tuition per year that I will have to pay: ~$7,000, total cost of attendance per year in loans per year: $39,000, $160,000 in loans over 4 years though cost of living is over-estimated by mayo, in fact the cost of living in rochester is estimated to be higher than in atlanta which I know is not true in reality haha)

Atlanta > Rochester, MN

Future plans: I would like to take a year off to do research at NIH..I want to do academic medicine (surgery, rad onc, or internal med) and do residency in Boston, NYC or Philly

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[paki20]

bump..anyone?? i keep going back and forth..one day its emory..the other day its mayo...then back at emory..then mayo..lol...obviously im not going to have people on SDN make my decision for me but would like to hear other people's perceptions of these schools..thanks!

 

[DoctwoB]

bump..anyone?? i keep going back and forth..one day its emory..the other day its mayo...then back at emory..then mayo..lol...obviously im not going to have people on SDN make my decision for me but would like to hear other people's perceptions of these schools..thanks!

If you can handle the small class size and location, I would pick Mayo. You have the entire Mayo clinic right there and you just about 160 med students to share it with.

 

[wolfiemd]

I'd definitely choose Emory over Mayo, but I find location to be very important. Rochester, MI seems painfully boring and the student body didn't really seem to enjoy life outside of their studies.

 

[Encephalectomy]

Future plans: I want to do academic medicine (surgery, rad onc, or internal med) and do residency in Boston, NYC or Philly

This is why I voted to try for the cornell waitlist. You shouldn't have any trouble matching into a good residency in Boston, NYC, or the philth from mayo or emory (both great schools, congrats!), but it would be a lot easier from cornell.

I would definitely choose emory of the two, just because to me 4 yrs in rochester, MN would be pretty unbearable (it isn't even the best rochester, which considering the other one ...), and I think it would be worse if you were single. That said, I do agree with doctwoB, that if you can bare rochester, mn, then you will have some amazing resources at your disposal and it is cheaper.

 

[alibai3ah]

I'd do Mayo over Emory. While Atlanta is fun and Emory is a decent school, I've always been infatuated with Mayo. It is probably the most selective school in the country. Also the small class size is a good thing, b/c less competition for research positions. I'd go with Mayo personally.

 

[ClarKent]

This is a tough choice. Both schools are great. Location-wise Emory obviously wins. In terms of prestige, it gets a bit confusing. I don't think MMS is known very well outside of medicine, but Emory certainly is. With that said, the Mayo clinic is easily one of the best places to train in the country. Also, Mayo is a lot cheaper than Emory. I interviewed at both, and was personally much more impressed by the mayo medical school buildings and curriculum.

All in all, I don't know what you should pick, its a really tough call. Haha good luck...

 

[paki20]

anyone know how Mayo students do at matching at the top-teir programs in the northeast (MGH, NYP-Columbia/Cornell, Penn, etc)?? Obviously I understand this is dependent on the students and how they do on the USMLE but I just want to get a sense of Mayo's reach in the northeast. Anyone have the match list from this year?

Also, Mayo doesn't have AOA...how is that viewed by residency directors at the top-tier residency programs I mentioned above??

I am usually a very quick decision-maker but this has seriously been so difficult for me..I really don't have any idea which one to choose...I probably could put up with location/weather but I just want to make sure its worth it...and I can't even visit Mayo again since I only have a few days left before I have to make a decision...

 

[Nerday Shortay]

I have the Mayo match list from this year (Marcy sent it to accepted students after Match Day). If you PM me your email address, I can forward it. Everybody's points are reasonable on this thread - you just have make a decision based on how important location is to you. Mayo is, in fact, the most selective school in the country. However, you have to be happy wherever you go. Both schools are great, and like I said, if you want the match list just PM me.
~Nerday

 

[SpaceDementia]

Cornell over either of them. Mayo might be a slightly better school than Emory, but the location would be a major deterrent if it were me.

I interviewed at Mayo, but not Emory. I didn't like it, but I certainly found it to be a unique educational experience. If you're going to choose Mayo, do so because you truly loved it (and not because of name recognition or its selectivity, which basically reflects the extremely small class size).

 

[bamtuba]

New York City over either of them.

Fixed. (not that this is bad reasoning, there are many opportunities in NYC...)

I think this is what you really meant, at least from the rest of your post. And selectivity based on size changes nothing at all. People still apply at rates much greater than what is accepted, and that is a big plus for the school itself.

Cornell? Over Mayo? Really?

But really, I agree: go to Mayo if you really loved it. This is very good advice.

Depends on your priorities I guess.

Good luck wherever you ended up OP.

🙂

 

[kjamess]

Fixed.

I think this is what you really meant, at least from the rest of your post. And selectivity based on size changes nothing at all. People still apply at rates much greater than what is accepted, and that is a big plus for the school itself.

Cornell? Over Mayo? Really?

Depends on your priorities I guess.

Good luck wherever you ended up OP.

🙂

well at least you arent biased...

 

[bamtuba]

well at least you arent biased...

Just like everyone else (you know, like a guy or gal who'll be going to the City advocating for the City...go figure).

After being there, you're right that I'm biased. In an educated sense. That's called forming an opinion.

🙂

(that's why we have more than one person putting forward their opinion on threads like these...)

👍

 

[Cytotoxic]

Fixed.

I think this is what you really meant, at least from the rest of your post. And selectivity based on size changes nothing at all. People still apply at rates much greater than what is accepted, and that is a big plus for the school itself.

Cornell? Over Mayo? Really?

Depends on your priorities I guess.

Good luck wherever you ended up OP.

🙂

New York Hospital, Memorial Sloan-Kettering, Special Surgery - some of the top academic residencies across all specialties. Huge research enterprise via Tri-I. Better match list. Huge global health program. Mayo's an excellent school, but it's not Weill Cornell.

 

[kjamess]

Just like everyone else (you know, like a guy or gal who'll be going to the City advocating for the City...go figure).

After being there, you're right that I'm biased. In an educated sense. That's called forming an opinion.

🙂

(that's why we have more than one person putting forward their opinion on threads like these...)

👍

oh, ok. So I should assume your educated opinion was formed after visiting Cornell as well?

 

[bamtuba]

Mayo Clinic - some of the top academic residencies across all specialties. One of the largest clinical research institutions in the country. Better match list (which I've doubt you've seen, and besides, your subjective opinion of what is better has nothing to do with reality). Clinics in Arizona and Florida with programs designed to pay for as well as equip students for pretty much any other dual degree track. Cornell's an excellent school, but it's not Mayo.

Fixed.

But these are my opinions, for whatever that may or may not be worth.

 

[bamtuba]

oh, ok. So I should assume your educated opinion was formed after visiting Cornell as well?

You shouldn't assume anything 😉

 

[Cytotoxic]

Fixed.

But these are my opinions, for whatever that may or may not be worth.

If you quote then edit what I wrote, at least make it clear. That's rather underhanded of you.

For academia (research), which is what I specified I my previous post, Mayo isn't as strong as Cornell's hospitals and their residencies. Look at where their graduates end up.

I have seen Mayo's match list. Don't pull assumptions out of your ***. For academic placement, it's not as strong as WC's. Sure, quite a few people end up top academic programs, but again, it's proportionally less than at WC.

 

[bamtuba]

As an aside, I only added my point as a counterpoint to an opinion based on location as a primary concern.

No matter your opinion of the place, nor mine for that matter, let's not forget (though I really hate rankings for many reasons) that Mayo is 2nd only to Hopkins in terms of "hospital rankings" (take it for whatever you want it to mean) and known as one of the greatest clinical research institutions around.

To get in a pi**ing match about "who's better" is pretty silly.

But that's what I was trying to point out in my own little way anyhow.

No, I don't think Mayo>>>>>Cornell.

But for some to say "OMG, it's NYC!!!111!!! so Cornell MUST be>>>>>Mayo" is pretty interesting.

To each his/her own.

Again, OP!

 

[bamtuba]

If you quote then edit what I wrote, at least make it clear. That's rather underhanded of you.

For academia (research), which is what I specified I my previous post, Mayo isn't as strong as Cornell's hospitals and their residencies. Look at where their graduates end up.

I have seen Mayo's match list. Don't pull assumptions out of your ***. For academic placement, it's not as strong as WC's. Sure, quite a few people end up top academic programs, but again, it's proportionally less than at WC.

And yet your opinion on their match list is worth very little to what it means.

Look at where their graduates end up: where they want to be.

You're talking about two schools attracting different types of applicants which can NOT be equated to the ability of the institution to offer students the options they seek in their careers.

I don't have to pull assumptions from anywhere when they come so frequently from your direction.

 

[Cytotoxic]

As an aside, I only added my point as a counterpoint to an opinion based on location as a primary concern.

No matter your opinion of the place, nor mine for that matter, let's not forget (though I really hate rankings for many reasons) that Mayo is 2nd only to Hopkins in terms of "hospital rankings" (take it for whatever you want it to mean) and known as one of the greatest clinical research institutions around.

To get in a pi**ing match about "who's better" is pretty silly.

But that's what I was trying to point out in my own little way anyhow.

No, I don't think Mayo>>>>>Cornell.

But for some to say "OMG, it's NYC!!!111!!! so Cornell MUST be>>>>>Mayo" is pretty interesting.

To each his/her own.

Again, OP!

I'll agree with NYC not necessary making Cornell better than Mayo. For the clinically-inclined, Mayo probably offers a second-to-none education, since the students get to do so much and have so much faculty attention.

But for those interested in academia, research, global health, Cornell offers better opportunities.

 

[bamtuba]

That's rather underhanded of you.

No, it's not.

Try reading the edit reasoning.

It is your friend.

🙂

 

[bamtuba]

I'll agree with NYC not necessary making Cornell better than Mayo. For the clinically-inclined, Mayo probably offers a second-to-none education, since the students get to do so much and have so much faculty attention.

But for those interested in academia, research, global health, Cornell offers better opportunities.

It may very well.

Point made.

But, I believe this point is a far cry from "Cornell beats Mayo by a mile."

Two different things.

Not that it matters much anyhow, the OP is likely looking for housing at this point.

 

[Cytotoxic]

And yet your opinion on their match list is worth very little to what it means.

Look at where their graduates end up: where they want to be.

You're talking about two schools attracting different types of applicants which can NOT be equated to the ability of the institution to offer students the options they seek in their careers.

I don't have to pull assumptions from anywhere when they come so frequently from your direction.

You can't honestly compare the research at Mayo to that at Tri-I. Clinical training is one thing, but Mayo simply can't compete on research opportunities.

 

[Cytotoxic]

Not that it matters much anyhow, the OP is likely looking for housing at this point.

Ha, at least he can probably buy in the Roch.

 

[bamtuba]

Ha, at least he can probably buy in the Roch.

And own a car. 😳

 

[bamtuba]

You can't honestly compare the research at Mayo to that at Tri-I. Clinical training is one thing, but Mayo simply can't compete on research opportunities.

I think it really depends on what role one wants research to play in their future career, but I've never done research at both so that I can make a comparison.

I will say that Mayo has some pretty amazing things going on research-wise.

If we're talking basic science research, then it's very likely Mayo does not compete, but in this area I can't directly compare the two.

People choose Mayo over Harvard and Hopkins. Others choose Cornell over Mayo. And still some choose State U. over many of these (I do know at least one person who made such a choice).

We're all looking for different things, so varied opinion (at least for me) is NOT a bad thing.

I don't care if people love or hate Mayo. It doesn't affect my decision to go there. But I am always curious when people make polarizing "school x is clearly better" statements.

 

[Cytotoxic]

I think it really depends on what role one wants research to play in their future career, but I've never done research at both so that I can make a comparison.

I will say that Mayo has some pretty amazing things going on research-wise.

If we're talking basic science research, then it's very likely Mayo does not compete, but in this area I can't directly compare the two.

People choose Mayo over Harvard and Hopkins. Others choose Cornell over Mayo. And still some choose State U. over many of these (I do know at least one person who made such a choice).

We're all looking for different things, so varied opinion (at least for me) is NOT a bad thing.

I don't care if people love or hate Mayo. It doesn't affect my decision to go there. But I am always curious when people make polarizing "school x is clearly better" statements.

Fair enough. But OP wants to do academic medicine in NYC/Boston/Philly, so I gave my advice accordingly.

 

[bamtuba]

Fair enough. But OP wants to do academic medicine in NYC/Boston/Philly, so I gave my advice accordingly.

And good advice it is in that context.

I just wish the OP would grace us with his/her presence and tell us the final decision...

🙂

 

[Cytotoxic]

And good advice it is in that context.

I just wish the OP would grace us with his/her presence and tell us the final decision...

🙂

Yay, we're friends! Not that the OP cares, haha.

 

[SpaceDementia]

I think this is what you really meant, at least from the rest of your post. And selectivity based on size changes nothing at all. People still apply at rates much greater than what is accepted, and that is a big plus for the school itself.

Actually, I never cited NYC. No reason to invoke that on my behalf. But since you've introduced it into the discussion, yes, location is typically a key consideration in school choice, and in my opinion the difference in quality of life between Cornell and Mayo would be dramatic for most. As has been hinted already, one's ability to match in NYC/Boston/Philly is (in my opinion) markedly better coming from Cornell rather than Mayo, in no small part because it's the stronger academic institution.

And that's the key distinction here. Mayo, from what I gathered about it, wins in regard to clinical training and teaching. But while those make for a rich educational experience, they don't have any bearing on career opportunities. Same thing with this perception that having a clinically excellent hospital necessarily translates to anything for its medical school. UCLA, for instance, is a top-3 hospital but not a top-3 medical school. MGH, on the other hand, is #5. The hospitals of UChicago and UCSD are unranked. Sure, hospital reputation might be somewhat of a consideration if one wishes to stay there for a strong residency program (or do research in an academically excellent department for the specialty of one's choice), but that's the extent of the connection. Inevitably, Mayo draws people because of the Mayo Clinic's huge name.

Research at an institution is important more generally for opening up opportunities, whether it's an academic career or residency placement. That's why residency director rankings (flawed methodology and all) generally correlate with research rankings.

Each applicant is different, and perhaps in the end it's a matter of fit. But I think the only things Mayo has over Cornell is a) better clinical training and a highly unique educational experience and b) the opportunity to stay at Mayo for residency.

 

[FrazzleSnazzle]

I'd definitely choose Emory over Mayo, but I find location to be very important. Rochester, MI seems painfully boring and the student body didn't really seem to enjoy life outside of their studies.

Um, Rochester, MI's social scene is perfectly fine since it's right in the middle of Metro Detroit. I think you meant Rochester, MN as being painfully boring. 😉

 

[bamtuba]

Actually, I never cited NYC. No reason to invoke that on my behalf. But since you've introduced it into the discussion, yes, location is typically a key consideration in school choice, and in my opinion the difference in quality of life between Cornell and Mayo would be dramatic for most. As has been hinted already, one's ability to match in NYC/Boston/Philly is (in my opinion) markedly better coming from Cornell rather than Mayo, in no small part because it's the stronger academic institution.

And that's the key distinction here. Mayo, from what I gathered about it, wins in regard to clinical training and teaching. But while those make for a rich educational experience, they don't have any bearing on career opportunities. Same thing with this perception that having a clinically excellent hospital necessarily translates to anything for its medical school. UCLA, for instance, is a top-3 hospital but not a top-3 medical school. MGH, on the other hand, is #5. The hospitals of UChicago and UCSD are unranked. Sure, hospital reputation might be somewhat of a consideration if one wishes to stay there for a strong residency program (or do research in an academically excellent department for the specialty of one's choice), but that's the extent of the connection. Inevitably, Mayo draws people because of the Mayo Clinic's huge name.

Research at an institution is important more generally for opening up opportunities, whether it's an academic career or residency placement. That's why residency director rankings (flawed methodology and all) generally correlate with research rankings.

Each applicant is different, and perhaps in the end it's a matter of fit. But I think the only things Mayo has over Cornell is a) better clinical training and a highly unique educational experience and b) the opportunity to stay at Mayo for residency.

Thanks for the clarification.

It seemed to me, though I didn't get a 15 in VR 😳, that you were citing location as the primary factor for your comments.

The section that I bolded above is, at least to me, pretty huge. Also, I would argue that clinical training and teaching have a huge impact on job opportunities, but this is where we can agree to disagree.

In context of the OP wanting to stay in the NE, I would agree Cornell would be a great choice, just as wanting to go to Mayo for residency would be helped by going to Mayo now.

Honestly though, I believe the Mayo name won't hurt one's chances of getting a placement in the NE, I just think that, regional bias aside, most competitive pre-meds self-select based on where they want to be in the long run when they can in the first place.

I think it's very likely that a Mayo student bent on going to NYC for residency won't be hindered by med school reputation or anything of the like, but that such a student would likely have tried to get into a NYC med school to begin with.

The opportunities that both present will get any driven student where they want to be so long as they "get the job done" in any of the aforementioned locales.

Good luck Paki, wherever you are...

 

[bamtuba]

Um, Rochester, MI's social scene is perfectly fine since it's right in the middle of Metro Detroit. I think you meant Rochester, MN as being painfully boring. 😉

But the cold numbs the pain, so I hear...

 

[Nerday Shortay]

We will likely all end up happily placed in residencies that suit our needs. Smile children, and have some wine or chocolate, whichever works better for you 😉. Anyway, just to add a dimension, Mayo's match list will look different to northeasterners because much of Mayo's student body is not from the northeast. As a northeasterner myself, I understand our obsession with our local schools/residency programs, which have earned their reputations (mostly) honorably. However, it is important to remember that many students at Mayo do not want to place in the north east. I was very concerned with the stats regarding north east residency matching from Mayo, as I currently plan to return to New England for residency. When I asked students at Mayo, it became clear that people who wanted to be in the north east earned spots at top residencies (MGH, etc). Those who wanted to be near family in midwest or western states placed accordingly. It's all about fit and goals. Cornell is also a good school, and while it wasn't a top choice for me, it was clear that its focus was pretty different than Mayo's. And that's fine (as is my use of "and" at the start of a sentence, har har har). We need all sorts of doctors to move science forward and to keep patients happy, so no need to argue over these things. Medical school is what we make of it. Every doctor I've spoken to has driven that point home. Peace out, cub scouts.
Your worst nightmare,
Nerday

 

[bamtuba]

Smile children, and have some wine or chocolate, whichever works better for you 😉.
Your worst nightmare,
Nerday

Well Nerday, I don't really view you as my WORST nightmare (yet 😉), but well said.

I'm going to sleep now.

Now you've got me wondering what my worst nightmare really could be...

Thanks.

 

[owenmichael]

Cornell over either of them. Mayo might be a slightly better school than Emory, but the location would be a major deterrent if it were me.

I interviewed at Mayo, but not Emory. I didn't like it, but I certainly found it to be a unique educational experience. If you're going to choose Mayo, do so because you truly loved it (and not because of name recognition or its selectivity, which basically reflects the extremely small class size).

Context: I'm a late into med school, have close friends who recently matched out of Mayo (the class is so small you hear everyones interview stories), and have been exposed to our match list and average step 1 scores over the last few years, and am well accustomed to the residency app process: Mayo >> Cornell >>>>>>>>>> Emory. I can't believe Emory even entered this equation given it's issues over the last few years.

A few of my peers who were probably not as qualified to get interviews at MGH/Brigham/JHU etc... for residency did because Mayo's name carries you. There are plenty of people at Mayo who ARE exceptional and interview at these places + Mayo name = ranked to match letters from top places. Many of my colleagues who interviewed at these institutions talked about how their interview wasn't even an interview, just a "how do we get you to come here" discussion. The truth is, you can knock Mayo all you want, but people are intrigued by the unique way things are done at Mayo, and how well trained students are.

Bottom line. Our step 1 average last year was a 237, year before 235. 90% of our students publish, most in my class have MULTIPLE publications in big journals (two in my class alone first authors in NEJM and JAMA). Over the last few years, people that have really wanted to go to TOP places NE have plain and simple...... gone there. That being said, alot of people like to stay in the midwest and don't even apply east or west. Two years ago, four (10%) people matched at Brigham and Women's Hospital, out of a class of 42. I'm not even counting west coast, JHU, Mass Gen...... just to demonstrate that one top institution is willing to take multiple people applying to the same program.

On top of that, at worst students pay 7 grand for tuition, we get two weeks off every six weeks (first two years) to use our $5000 travel budget to volunteer abroad, do research etc. And honestly, the med school throws opportunities on you to the point where it's hard not appear "exceptional" when applying for residencies.

Rochester blows, I'd much rather live in NY, but the med school is way more than I ever expected.

Cornell is a great school but simply does not carry the same "wow factor." Columbia definitely yes, cornell definitely not.

On a random side note, I never realized hwo much med school reputations/prestige mattered for residency. It does!

 

[rxlea]

I hope the OP chose Mayo. IMHO, there is no comparison. Everybody knows Mayo. Rochester is only a little over an hour from Twin Cities (which is an awesome place, BTW) and it is an easy drive when there isn't a blizzard 🙂 I've driven it- (there is a great place on the way to get beef jerky-hehe) - and it really isn't bad at all.

 

[neuronc]

I think the OP will be fine regardless of where he chose to go. I personally was not impressed with Mayo when I interviewed there, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[kjamess]

Context: I'm a late into med school, have close friends who recently matched out of Mayo (the class is so small you hear everyones interview stories), and have been exposed to our match list and average step 1 scores over the last few years, and am well accustomed to the residency app process: Mayo >> Cornell >>>>>>>>>> Emory. I can't believe Emory even entered this equation given it's issues over the last few years.

A few of my peers who were probably not as qualified to get interviews at MGH/Brigham/JHU etc... for residency did because Mayo's name carries you. There are plenty of people at Mayo who ARE exceptional and interview at these places + Mayo name = ranked to match letters from top places. Many of my colleagues who interviewed at these institutions talked about how their interview wasn't even an interview, just a "how do we get you to come here" discussion. The truth is, you can knock Mayo all you want, but people are intrigued by the unique way things are done at Mayo, and how well trained students are.

Bottom line. Our step 1 average last year was a 237, year before 235. 90% of our students publish, most in my class have MULTIPLE publications in big journals (two in my class alone first authors in NEJM and JAMA). Over the last few years, people that have really wanted to go to TOP places NE have plain and simple...... gone there. That being said, alot of people like to stay in the midwest and don't even apply east or west. Two years ago, four (10%) people matched at Brigham and Women's Hospital, out of a class of 42. I'm not even counting west coast, JHU, Mass Gen...... just to demonstrate that one top institution is willing to take multiple people applying to the same program.

On top of that, at worst students pay 7 grand for tuition, we get two weeks off every six weeks (first two years) to use our $5000 travel budget to volunteer abroad, do research etc. And honestly, the med school throws opportunities on you to the point where it's hard not appear "exceptional" when applying for residencies.

Rochester blows, I'd much rather live in NY, but the med school is way more than I ever expected.

Cornell is a great school but simply does not carry the same "wow factor." Columbia definitely yes, cornell definitely not.

On a random side note, I never realized hwo much med school reputations/prestige mattered for residency. It does!

Im curious, how is it that columbia is a "definite yes", and (im assuming based off your post) mayo would be another "wow" school, but somehow cornell is not (especially for NE programs)? I think this is splitting hairs but I just dont see how mayo is in a different category.