Midwestern University Arizona (AZCOM) Discussion Thread 2012 - 2013

[Machine33]

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I may be wrong, but I think that your years in residency don't count as "payback time". Those ears just don't add on to your total required number of years. Also, I'm not sure what the compensation rates are for military vs civilian residency, but I do know that the military likes to include stiff like health insurance and vacation time in their calculations for a total of what you get compensated.
Like I said, I don't know for sure. I need to look into it more.

3. What is the payback?

One year of service per year of scholarship received. Military residencies do count as payback HOWEVER, you also accrue one year of payback for each year of residency after your FYGME year. In other words you can complete one extra year of residency past your level of commitment without incurring more time. (4 year scholarship recipients can do 5 years of post grad training without accruing more time)

In most cases one must complete their internship (FYGME in military lingo) year with the military

One must apply to military residencies and if selected must take that residency. If one is not available in your field or you are not selected you will be deferred to a civilian residency.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118576

My question is, though, what would be so bad if I do say a gas residency in the military vs civilian? DrWilly made it seem like a military match << civilian match, and I'm trying to figure out why.

 

[Machine33]

Yes and kind of. The residency years do not count towards payback time, and if you are in residency past 4 years, they add one year of payback time for every additional year of residency. Also, you *have* to apply for the Military Match which is in September of 4th year and you will find out by December if you matched or not, way ahead of the civilian match. You *can* try to apply for civilian deferment and go into a civilian residency with the understanding that you will still owe payback time, but they do NOT have to approve of it. Frankly, it's quite a big risk and one that I wasn't willing to take.

I don't think the military can force you to do a residency outside of what you want to do, but they can force you to be a GMO (general medical officer) for the payback years after your initial 1yr internship. This effectively puts your residency on hold until after your payback years, and then you will go back and apply for civilian residencies in the field that you want.

TL;DR Only do HPSP if you really really really want to be in the military. The money is a non-issue once you are making dat cash with a physician's paycheck. You'll have a lot more opportunities and a lot more freedom of choice.

Source: http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html

That would be terrible if they made you wait until after your residency to pay back the time 👎... I can see that being a deal breaker, for sure.

 

[DrWily]

3. What is the payback?

One year of service per year of scholarship received. Military residencies do count as payback HOWEVER, you also accrue one year of payback for each year of residency after your FYGME year. In other words you can complete one extra year of residency past your level of commitment without incurring more time. (4 year scholarship recipients can do 5 years of post grad training without accruing more time)

In most cases one must complete their internship (FYGME in military lingo) year with the military

One must apply to military residencies and if selected must take that residency. If one is not available in your field or you are not selected you will be deferred to a civilian residency.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118576

My question is, though, what would be so bad if I do say a gas residency in the military vs civilian? DrWilly made it seem like a military match << civilian match, and I'm trying to figure out why.

Sorry I didn't mean to make it seem as though the quality of the residency is bad as much as the limited number of spots. Which means more competition, which means you may not get into Gas through military match, which means you may be delegated to do something else.

At least, this is how I understood it when I was considering HPSP.

Edit: I don't claim to be an expert on HPSP at all. Please do some research if you are considering HPSP. Frankly, I only considered it for a short while and opt'd to forego after hearing some of the negatives.

 

[dudeliness]

Yes and kind of. The residency years do not count towards payback time, and if you are in residency past 4 years, they add one year of payback time for every additional year of residency. Also, you *have* to apply for the Military Match which is in September of 4th year and you will find out by December if you matched or not, way ahead of the civilian match. You *can* try to apply for civilian deferment and go into a civilian residency with the understanding that you will still owe payback time, but they do NOT have to approve of it. Frankly, it's quite a big risk and one that I wasn't willing to take.

I don't think the military can force you to do a residency outside of what you want to do, but they can force you to be a GMO (general medical officer) for the payback years after your initial 1yr internship. This effectively puts your residency on hold until after your payback years, and then you will go back and apply for civilian residencies in the field that you want.

TL;DR Only do HPSP if you really really really want to be in the military. The money is a non-issue once you are making dat cash with a physician's paycheck. You'll have a lot more opportunities and a lot more freedom of choice.

Source: http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html

So if I'm understanding right, if you dont match to your preferred specialty in the military match, and weren't approved for a civilian match, then you do GMO for a year and try again, right? How is that different than if you were a civilian and didn't match where you wanted? What would your options be then while you were waiting for the next match cycle? Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding how matching works it seems like the main difference is that it's harder to match into specific military residencies as a DO. If you don't match in, take a year to work and pay off a large amount of debt in a year and then try again.

 

[abolt18]

So if I'm understanding right, if you dont match to your preferred specialty in the military match, and weren't approved for a civilian match, then you do GMO for a year and try again, right? How is that different than if you were a civilian and didn't match where you wanted? What would your options be then while you were waiting for the next match cycle? Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding how matching works it seems like the main difference is that it's harder to match into specific military residencies as a DO. If you don't match in, take a year to work and pay off a large amount of debt in a year and then try again.

No, you'd do 1 year internship followed by a 2 year GMO. This will count as 3 of the 4 years paid back. You can do another year GMO and get out OR if you try again to match (which you'll have a much higher chance since doing your GMO tour will have gotten you many more points than all the med students trying to match first time) and you do your residency through the military, you will accumulate more "payback" time year for year of the residency. This is how I've understood it and this is what has turned me away, the risk of delaying residency for a GMO tour.

 

[dudeliness]

Just as a side note in reference to the quality of military residencies, I shadowed a DO who did his general surgery through the air force. He's not a military fanatic by any stretch of the imagination, and got out as soon as his time was up. He did however tell me on more than one occasion that his general surgery residency was phenomenal and that if he could go back and do it again today he would in a heartbeat. Just one docs opinion fwiw

 

[WildEMDoc]

I can also say that 3 docs I work with in the ER did military residencies. They are some of the best docs in the ER.

 

[dudeliness]

I can also say that 3 docs I work with in the ER did military residencies. They are some of the best docs in the ER.

What do they think about their active duty and other obligations? Are they married?

 

[WildEMDoc]

What do they think about their active duty and other obligations? Are they married?

One has been married for a long time, his first marriage so I'm assuming since ~residency or late medical school. Hes not currently anywhere near active duty and I think he left the military pretty soon after residency, I have no idea what the required obligation was back then though. He and the other doc constantly state that one of the reasons they don't need to consult so much is because of their military residency where they learned how to do so many procedures that ER docs wouldn't typically do. He also is a DO 😎

The second doc is a Cardio/CC/IM doc who sometimes does nights in our ER. I have no idea why he is doing that, because he does have another job in a different city doing Cardio/CC consults. Hes a really good doc and loved the military life. I know he is currently married but I don't believe it is his first marriage (might be third).

The other doc (the head of the ER department) I don't really know all that much about other than he loved his military residency. I don't work with him that much. I know that he has been married a couple times.

Also our ER is apparently bringing on another doc, who is currently active duty at a large military base nearby and will be doing some moonlighting in the ER. He is really young, just out of residency so it will be cool to have a totally different perspective on medicine in the ER, since all the other docs are easily 40+.

 

[MedPR]

Just as a side note in reference to the quality of military residencies, I shadowed a DO who did his general surgery through the air force. He's not a military fanatic by any stretch of the imagination, and got out as soon as his time was up. He did however tell me on more than one occasion that his general surgery residency was phenomenal and that if he could go back and do it again today he would in a heartbeat. Just one docs opinion fwiw

I can also say that 3 docs I work with in the ER did military residencies. They are some of the best docs in the ER.

Same. I shadowed a dermatologist who did her residency in the air force and now she's one of the most highly regarded Mohs surgeons in st. louis.

 

[abolt18]

What do they think about their active duty and other obligations? Are they married?

In my case, the doc is married (only marriage) with 5 kids. He's got a year left in his active duty in the Air Force (he had 7 years to do because he did ROTC before the HPSP). He has loved it. Specialized in Emergency Medicine but has served as a trauma surgeon, flight surgeon, and now he's a flight doc for all the F-16 pilots and their families on base. He has had amazing experiences both during his active duty tours and his deferred residency in Las Vegas (he actually attended AZCOM). All the while he was very straight-forward with the cons of doing the military route.

For example, a 4th year from DMU was doing an elective rotation with him while I was there and he was trying to go into EM. The USAF said "sorry we have too many interested in EM right now so you'll be doing your internship followed by a GMO tour." And he was VERY bitter about this. They wouldn't even let him defer to a civilian residency. The doc said this is pretty common and he felt fortunate that it didn't happen to him. So as many pro's as there are, there are also risks/cons.

 

[BB8730]

Got the waitlist letter in the mail today. I'm just happy I didn't get rejected. 🙂 Gonna keep pushing and send them updated stuff after I 4.0 this semester and hopefully get pulled off!

I was complete 8/16 and the letter was dated 8/28. My stats are on my MDApps.

 

[angldrps]

Got the waitlist letter in the mail today. I'm just happy I didn't get rejected. 🙂 Gonna keep pushing and send them updated stuff after I 4.0 this semester and hopefully get pulled off!

I was complete 8/16 and the letter was dated 8/28. My stats are on my MDApps.

I like your positive attitude. If you don't mind me asking, when did you interview? I thought first interview wasn't until September. By wait list, do you perhaps mean put on hold?

 

[BB8730]

I like your positive attitude. If you don't mind me asking, when did you interview? I thought first interview wasn't until September. By wait list, do you perhaps mean put on hold?

Thanks! Yeah, pre-interview hold is the correct term I suppose.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using SDN Mobile

 

[DrMeows]

Thanks! Yeah, pre-interview hold is the correct term I suppose.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using SDN Mobile

You seem very set on AZCOM. I hope things work out for you!

 

[acciouno]

Got the waitlist letter in the mail today. I'm just happy I didn't get rejected. 🙂 Gonna keep pushing and send them updated stuff after I 4.0 this semester and hopefully get pulled off!

I was complete 8/16 and the letter was dated 8/28. My stats are on my MDApps.

When were you interviewed if I may ask?

 

[GopherMD]

When were you interviewed if I may ask?

He was put on hold, pre-interview

 

[acciouno]

He was put on hold, pre-interview

Oh wow. They can do that? I thought you either get an interview or not. Maybe that's better than not getting an interview invite at all.

 

[MsBerry]

Got the waitlist letter in the mail today. I'm just happy I didn't get rejected. 🙂 Gonna keep pushing and send them updated stuff after I 4.0 this semester and hopefully get pulled off!

I was complete 8/16 and the letter was dated 8/28. My stats are on my MDApps.

I just read your MDApps profile, and it was pretty remarkable. I think it's your GPAs, especially science, that prevented you from getting an interview. I'm surprised that the AACOMAS grade replacement didn't bump your numbers up more. Maybe you need more retakes. Otherwise, your ECs are cool, and you're clearly capable if you got that MCAT score after just 4 weeks (!!!) of studying. I'm sure you'll get better news later on in this cycle after you've updated schools.

 

[MedPR]

I didn't know there was such a thing as pre-interview waitlist..

 

[angldrps]

I didn't know there was such a thing as pre-interview waitlist..

it was actually a pre-interview hold not waitlist. I am sure they dont actually put you any kind of waitlist until they have interviewed you.

 

[DrMeows]

I didn't know there was such a thing as pre-interview waitlist..

it was actually a pre-interview hold not waitlist. I am sure they dont actually put you any kind of waitlist until they have interviewed you.

Yeah a lot of schools will refer to it as different things, though, I don't think any school actually calls that stage a waitlist. It's usually being put "on hold" or some type of "re-review" process.

 

[BB8730]

You seem very set on AZCOM. I hope things work out for you!

Thanks! 🙂

I just read your MDApps profile, and it was pretty remarkable. I think it's your GPAs, especially science, that prevented you from getting an interview. I'm surprised that the AACOMAS grade replacement didn't bump your numbers up more. Maybe you need more retakes. Otherwise, your ECs are cool, and you're clearly capable if you got that MCAT score after just 4 weeks (!!!) of studying. I'm sure you'll get better news later on in this cycle after you've updated schools.

Thanks! Yeah I think my GPAs are the only weak spot on my application. I'm still working on a few retakes. If this semester goes well, I'll have 3.35c/3.05s GPAs. Hopefully I can send them my updated stuff in December and make some more progress. 🙂

Yeah a lot of schools will refer to it as different things, though, I don't think any school actually calls that stage a waitlist. It's usually being put "on hold" or some type of "re-review" process.

Yeah, my bad on the waitlist term. The exact phrase they used in the letter was "[AZCOM] has put your application on hold for the Class of 2017 on hold pending possible future interview invitation." To me that sounded like some kind of waitlist, but I see that waitlist is a more specific term for people who have already interviewed. 👍

 

[dudeliness]

Who where is staying at the drury inn? I thought I remembered somebody mentioning it. I just looked them up online and it seems like a pretty cool place to stay. Did you book the one right by the airport, and did you get a discount for interviewing? If so, how much was the discount?
Just trying to figure out if it would be worth canceling my other hotel. Lol

 

[wilsosar]

Who where is staying at the drury inn? I thought I remembered somebody mentioning it. I just looked them up online and it seems like a pretty cool place to stay. Did you book the one right by the airport, and did you get a discount for interviewing? If so, how much was the discount?
Just trying to figure out if it would be worth canceling my other hotel. Lol

I'm staying there. Not the one by the airport though, the one on Pinnacle rd. It was $76 for the night (thats before taxes and fees).

 

[dudeliness]

I'm staying there. Not the one by the airport though, the one on Pinnacle rd. It was $76 for the night (thats before taxes and fees).

Ok. So that's about $20 off. Cool

 

[CDTcorp]

Who where is staying at the drury inn? I thought I remembered somebody mentioning it. I just looked them up online and it seems like a pretty cool place to stay. Did you book the one right by the airport, and did you get a discount for interviewing? If so, how much was the discount?
Just trying to figure out if it would be worth canceling my other hotel. Lol

I was the one that told you about the Drury inn. I will be there on the 13th.

 

[MedPR]

Ok. So that's about $20 off. Cool

Check out the Comfort Inn. It's right near AZCOM (I'm staying there) and I think it's something like $65 per night. http://www.comfortinn.com/hotel-phoenix-arizona-AZ319

Free shuttle to and from AZCOM so you don't have to worry about parking in the morning.

 

[aspiringdoc12]

Can someone provide more detail about the curriculum at AZCOM? I know that the curriculum is traditional (first two years basic sciences, last two years clinical rotations). I heard that the curriculum also involves a preceptorship program that matches students with a preceptor in the first and second years every other week. Is this still current with the curriculum? I tried to validate this through their school website but haven't come across anything. Is there anything else unique in their curriculum that's not typical of other med schools?

Also, what other community service programs are available to med students? I know that there's DOCARE and TOPS, but that's all I know of.

Thanks!

 

[DrWily]

I was the one that told you about the Drury inn. I will be there on the 13th.

Drury Hotel baby. Best place to stay for interviews srsly. A lot of free stuff included with the room rate and it's generally cheap with the AZCOM discount. Also has a free shuttle to AZCOM from the hotel. I wish they had Drury's in California

Posted 8/1/12. wut

But seriously, Drury has free dinner, free drinks (alcoholic), and free breakfast. Ya it's not amazing, but it's free.

 

[DrWily]

Can someone provide more detail about the curriculum at AZCOM? I know that the curriculum is traditional (first two years basic sciences, last two years clinical rotations). I heard that the curriculum also involves a preceptorship program that matches students with a preceptor in the first and second years every other week. Is this still current with the curriculum? I tried to validate this through their school website but haven't come across anything. Is there anything else unique in their curriculum that's not typical of other med schools?

Also, what other community service programs are available to med students? I know that there's DOCARE and TOPS, but that's all I know of.

Thanks!

No, I don't think we do the preceptorship every other week for 1st and 2nd year (at least I haven't heard or done anything like that as a MS1). And I can't answer the community service programs since I'm not interested in them.

 

[dudeliness]

No, I don't think we do the preceptorship every other week for 1st and 2nd year (at least I haven't heard or done anything like that as a MS1). And I can't answer the community service programs since I'm not interested in them.

So what is the curriculum like then? Just your standard systems based lecture for yrs 1 and 2? When dans how do you start working on clinical and diagnostic skills? Thanks bro

 

[DrWily]

So what is the curriculum like then? Just your standard systems based lecture for yrs 1 and 2? When dans how do you start working on clinical and diagnostic skills? Thanks bro

Not systems based. 1st&2nd year is all basic sciences so like straight up Biochem/Histology/Anatomy. Obviously they relate it all back to human function, but we haven't specifically learned renal system or GI system. I don't see it as a detriment based on how well AZCOM's students perform on boards. Some may not like this, but meh, no skin off my back.

We have a class called ICM (Intro Clinical Med) where we are taught how to talk to patients, how to take a history and a physical, and how to "work up" a patient. Currently taking this class now and I believe it goes on all year.

 

[CDTcorp]

Posted 8/1/12. wut

But seriously, Drury has free dinner, free drinks (alcoholic), and free breakfast. Ya it's not amazing, but it's free.

Haha, yeah you definitely said it here first, that's why I am staying there. But I told him about it in person and I think that is what he meant, which is why I said that. But, it's ok no skin off my back!

 

[DrWily]

Haha, yeah you definitely said it here first, that's why I am staying there. But I told him about it in person and I think that is what he meant, which is why I said that. But, it's ok no skin off my back!

Im just bustin your balls; I don't really care 😉 no skin off my back

 

[MedPR]

Posted 8/1/12. wut

But seriously, Drury has free dinner, free drinks (alcoholic), and free breakfast. Ya it's not amazing, but it's free.

I wish I knew about that. If I canceled my hotel now I wouldn't get my money back.. I think.

 

[deleted236787]

I wish I knew about that. If I canceled my hotel now I wouldn't get my money back.. I think.

Are you sure? Most hotels you can cancel up to like 4PM on the night you're staying or something like that.

 

[MedPR]

Are you sure? Most hotels you can cancel up to like 4PM on the night you're staying or something like that.

Well I booked my hotel as a package deal with a flight on Southwest. I'll give them a call and see if it would work though.

 

[DrWily]

Well I booked my hotel as a package deal with a flight on Southwest. I'll give them a call and see if it would work though.

Just know that it's not like its a lobster dinner, but it is decent enough for my wife and I to skip eating out. Drinks are limited to three per night I believe. Bfast was pretty nice with eggs, sausage and baconz.

 

[DrMeows]

I see there's a Sept 18th date that opened up if anyone wants it! 👍

 

[Ost3oclast]

I see there's a Sept 18th date that opened up if anyone wants it! 👍

I took it! Moved me up a whole month!

 

[DrMeows]

I took it! Moved me up a whole month!

Good! 🙂 i wanted it to g to a fellow SDNer. I'm sad because I would have taken it if it were a Monday or Friday. I'm flying from Michigan and am a full time student so merging my travel with a weekend day makes it a lot more doable. Ah well....I'll keep my October date....for now 😳

 

[selttiks288]

Would it be possible for someone interviewing the 14th to forward me the email with the interview information? I never received it or it got deleted or something. When I called admissions they said they would resend it but all all I got was a hotel list.

Edit:NVM I forgot that UVU posted his awhile ago.

 

[Ost3oclast]

Yea for me its just a couple hours drive! All I had to change was the hotel!

 

[aspiringdoc12]

No, I don't think we do the preceptorship every other week for 1st and 2nd year (at least I haven't heard or done anything like that as a MS1). And I can't answer the community service programs since I'm not interested in them.

Okay, good to know 🙂 I came across the preceptorship info in the AZCOM interview feedback section, but I think it was a comment from like 2006 so I wasn't sure if it was still up to date. Is there anything about the curriculum that attracted you to AZCOM? I heard that they integrate board review with the curriculum which is awesome (again, from the interview feedback so I'm not sure if it's true, haha).

Thanks!

 

[GopherMD]

Good! 🙂 i wanted it to g to a fellow SDNer. I'm sad because I would have taken it if it were a Monday or Friday. I'm flying from Michigan and am a full time student so merging my travel with a weekend day makes it a lot more doable. Ah well....I'll keep my October date....for now 😳

Don't ditch me on the 15th!

 

[DrWily]

Okay, good to know 🙂 I came across the preceptorship info in the AZCOM interview feedback section, but I think it was a comment from like 2006 so I wasn't sure if it was still up to date. Is there anything about the curriculum that attracted you to AZCOM? I heard that they integrate board review with the curriculum which is awesome (again, from the interview feedback so I'm not sure if it's true, haha).

Thanks!

AZCOM was an easy choice for me because location was very important. So no, there wasn't anything specific about the curriculum that attracted me. As for the integrated board review, I don't know anything about that (I'll leave that to the MS2+s like FluShot and Randomusername) but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

 

[GopherMD]

Flights booked for my interview!

 

[MedPR]

Just know that it's not like its a lobster dinner, but it is decent enough for my wife and I to skip eating out. Drinks are limited to three per night I believe. Bfast was pretty nice with eggs, sausage and baconz.

Free is free. As long as it doesn't make me physically ill it's all good. Going to call Southwest tomorrow. I just read their cancellation policy and it basically says that you need to call to figure out if they'll refund you or not.

I don't know what the AZCOM discount is, but without it the Drury is about $35 more expensive than Comfort Inn.. Free meals definitely makes up for that though. Plus if someone else is staying there on 9/12 it would be cool to meet up.

 

[abolt18]

I was checking out the dates of when they seem to send out interview invites and I feel like they are sending out batches of interviews each week. It doesn't appear that there are any this week (that I've seen) so hopefully that means there will be a bunch going out in the next day or two!