Official 2009/2010 rank list help thread

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BIDMC over Sinai or Yale is debatable from the reputation perspective. As for the rep of BIDMC, NW and UofC from someone in the South: NW > BIDMC > UofC.

I think a lot of people equate/confuse the reputation of BIDMC with the potential of Boston and HMS, as the academic mecca of the world.

I too would debate the reputation of BIDMC ALONE over Yale (dont know much about Sinai). The problem is that most people see BIDMC as "BIDMC+Harvard". But I would have to assume that what you do with the 'BI+Boston' tag (especially on how you make use of the opportunities available) would probably (and unfortunately) yield to better dividends than that at "Yale+New Haven".

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BIDMC over Sinai or Yale is debatable from the reputation perspective. As for the rep of BIDMC, NW and UofC from someone in the South: NW > BIDMC > UofC.

This is why I asked the question in the first place-just based on the last few years matches it looks like U of C is equal to NW for placing people in competitive cards fellowships, especially on the east coast. I'm from in NY so Sinai's matches at NYU and Sinai look really appealing to me. And I don't think I have a problem with living in new Haven because it's an interesting town close to home and they have a great IM program.

anyway thanks for the input.

-Peter
 
Thanks Tarlovcyst for your input!!!

IMDOC2010,
Based on fellowship placement being weighted first, and then reputation second, I would rank the following --
Montefiore, SUNY Downstate, Jefferson, Rush
Then Temple, Boston University, Cleveland Clinic.

Montefiore has an outstanding fellowship placement list and they have many spots for GI. SUNY loves to take their own and I believe they have 6 GI spots for the 1st year. Jefferson also has an excellent fellowship placement history. I mentioned Rush because Rush is ranked in the top 25 for GI, and they consistently place about 6-8 residents in GI per year.

Temple does well in GI, but North Philly marks it down a little bit, especially when you have Jefferson to choose from. Boston has a large program with an excellent fellowship placement as well, but I heard it was a malignant a few years ago and is improving. Cleveland Clinic has a nice variety of DOs, FMGs, and MDs, and though it is argued that this promotes diversity versus strength of program, they do take their own; Cleveland isn't an ideal place to live.

Thanks for the thread.
 
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Need help ranking: I'm interested in Heme-Onc, Endocrine, GI, Cards. yeah, I haven't quite narrowed it down yet. Anyway, looking for strong training, excellent didactics in a supportive, friendly environment.
Current rank is based on what everyone refers to as the gut feeling. I don't know how big of a role it should play into my ultimate match list though.

1. UNC
2. Pitt, Michigan
3. OHSU, UVA
4. Stanford
5. Duke
6. Vanderbilt
7. UWash
8. Maryland
9. Wake Forest
 
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Need help ranking: I'm interested in Heme-Onc, Endocrine, GI, Cards. yeah, I haven't quite narrowed it down yet. Anyway, looking for strong training, excellent didactics in a supportive, friendly environment.
Current rank is based on what everyone refers to as the gut feeling. I don't know how big of a role it should play into my ultimate match list though.

1. UNC
2. Pitt, Michigan
3. OHSU, UVA
4. Stanford
5. Duke
6. Vanderbilt
7. UWash
8. Maryland
9. Wake Forest

Those are all good to excellent programs on your list. I would say that overall, your training will be comparable (and excellent) from any of them. In that case, I think "gut" plays a huge role in ranking. I personally finalized my rank list based on a gut feeling and couldn't be happier.
 
I also would appreciate help with my ROL. Interested in cards. Have no geographic or other limitations. Thanks.

In no particular order:
- WashU
- UW
- Stanford
- UCLA
- Vanderbilt
- Michigan
- Duke
- Johns Hopkins
- BIDMC
- Pitt
- NW
- Univ of Chicago
 
I also would appreciate help with my ROL. Interested in cards. Have no geographic or other limitations. Thanks.

In no particular order:
- WashU
- UW
- Stanford
- UCLA
- Vanderbilt
- Michigan
- Duke
- Johns Hopkins
- BIDMC
- Pitt
- NW
- Univ of Chicago

When the two weakest programs on your list are (arguably) Pitt and Vandy, you have the greatest "dilemma" imaginable.

In this case I'd say go with the places that are strongest in whatever you think you want to do in life. Want to do Pulm? UW or Pitt. Interested in Cards? Duke...then everywhere else on your list. Onc? Hopkins, Michigan, UW, Stanford, WashU and BIDMC should be tops (with the remainder close behind).

After that, go with your gut. I interviewed at a lot of those places and definitely felt better at some than others.
 
Need help ranking: I'm interested in Heme-Onc, Endocrine, GI, Cards. yeah, I haven't quite narrowed it down yet. Anyway, looking for strong training, excellent didactics in a supportive, friendly environment.
Current rank is based on what everyone refers to as the gut feeling. I don't know how big of a role it should play into my ultimate match list though.

1. UNC
2. Pitt, Michigan
3. OHSU, UVA
4. Stanford
5. Duke
6. Vanderbilt
7. UWash
8. Maryland
9. Wake Forest

Based on reputation..
1. Duke
2. UW
3. Michigan=Stanford=Vandy
6. Pitt=UNC=OHSU
9. Maryland=UVa
11. Wake
 
I also would appreciate help with my ROL. Interested in cards. Have no geographic or other limitations. Thanks.

In no particular order:
- WashU
- UW
- Stanford
- UCLA
- Vanderbilt
- Michigan
- Duke
- Johns Hopkins
- BIDMC
- Pitt
- NW
- Univ of Chicago

1. HOPKINS
2. Duke
3. UW=Wash U
5. Michigan=Vandy=Stanford=UCLA=UChicago=BIDMC
11. NW=Pitt

Really the top two are on another level, and then I think everything else is obviously quite strong too on your list.
 
That's not true. At this level you should be ranking based on fit.

Stanford, UCLA, and Chicago are easily at the level of Duke and UW. They're in the same tier. Actually, because so many people want to live in California or a large city like Chicago, they're actually significantly more competitive than many equally strong midwest and southern programs.

Back to my original point, where do you want to live? Where will you be happy? Where did you get the best gut feeling? Living in NC is very different from L.A., Stanford, Seattle, or Baltimore. For example, there are a good number of residents at Stanford, UCLA, and UWashington, the top west coast programs (with UCSF) who turned down the elite northeast programs (e.g. Hopkins, MGH, etc) simply because they wanted to be on the west coast. The same can also be said of residents desiring to stay in the South, Northeast, or Midwest. Life is more than about training.....My suggestion is to think about where you'll be happy. I do think Hopkins is in a league of its own but the Osler program is not for everyone. If you won't thrive in Baltimore it's nothing that you can't make up for at any of these other outstanding programs. You will do best where you are happy. Good luck.
 
How would you rank the following east coast programs for someone who might want to subspecialize in heme/onc?

Right now I have (in order):

Georgetown
Montefiore
Robert Wood Johnson
Jefferson
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook

Any thoughts?
 
Would like some input for GI placement. Thanks guys.

UW
UCSF
UCLA
BWH
BIDMC
Michigan
Mayo
Wash U
 
Would like some input for GI placement. Thanks guys.

UW
UCSF
UCLA
BWH
BIDMC
Michigan
Mayo
Wash U

wow... that list is pretty ridiculous... with the exception of mayo and maybe UCLA, i don't think you will have a problem getting a GI spot at big time programs with any of those other institutions... i know that the michigan pd is a GI attending so that might go a long way
 
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How would you rank the following east coast programs for someone who might want to subspecialize in heme/onc?

Right now I have (in order):

Georgetown
Montefiore
Robert Wood Johnson
Jefferson
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook

Any thoughts?

Hey Hassler. Depends on what you're looking for.

SUNY Downstate and RWJ are known for taking their own for heme/onc.

Montefiore has an outstanding fellowship placement list and you'll be fine finding a heme/onc spot. But you'll get worked very hard at Montey. At Jefferson, it's in a beautiful part of Philly. Probably the 2nd best IM program in Philly. Also outstanding fellowship placements.

Can't provide you much info on Stony Brook or Georgetown.
 
wow... that list is pretty ridiculous... with the exception of mayo and maybe UCLA, i don't think you will have a problem getting a GI spot at big time programs with any of those other institutions... i know that the michigan pd is a GI attending so that might go a long way

True..but in this guy's case, he has two of the top 3 programs in the country. You are a lucky guy, matthewcas. Just choose to go where you will enjoy living in - east, west, midwest...if you dont mind rochester and are focusing on "delivery of care", mayo has a very well- reputed GI fellowship program as well, and they do take in-house. So if I were you, I would think more regionally, fit and where you would like to live. If San Francisco or Boston is where it is, you know you then have the privilege of eventually possibly pick the fellowship of your choice wherever you want.
 
Would like some input for GI placement. Thanks guys.

UW
UCSF
UCLA
BWH
BIDMC
Michigan
Mayo
Wash U

Damn boy. You must have 250+ and be AOA.

Since you won't have any problems with any of those programs for GI, I would just go with the ones with top reputations --
UCLA, BIDMC, BWH, UCLA
 
Need help with ROL as a lot of these places are fairly similar to each other. Interested in Cards - no geographic limitations, just want the BEST cards fellowship placement and/or places with BEST reputation nationally...

Montefiore
University of Washington
Boston University
Northwestern
NYU
Yale
Tufts
Cornell
University of Chicago

Thanks!
 
How would you rank the following east coast programs for someone who might want to subspecialize in heme/onc?

Right now I have (in order):

Georgetown
Montefiore
Robert Wood Johnson
Jefferson
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Stony Brook

Any thoughts?

I would shift RWJ and TJ to the top of your list but otherwise more or less leave it alone.
 
Need help with ROL as a lot of these places are fairly similar to each other. Interested in Cards - no geographic limitations, just want the BEST cards fellowship placement and/or places with BEST reputation nationally...

Montefiore
University of Washington
Boston University
Northwestern
NYU
Yale
Tufts
Cornell
University of Chicago

Thanks!

1. UW
2. Cornell
3. Yale=UChicago
5. BU=NYU=NW
8. Tufts=Montefiore.
 
Need help with ROL as a lot of these places are fairly similar to each other. Interested in Cards - no geographic limitations, just want the BEST cards fellowship placement and/or places with BEST reputation nationally...

Montefiore
University of Washington
Boston University
Northwestern
NYU
Yale
Tufts
Cornell
University of Chicago

Thanks!


In terms of getting the best Cards fellowship + reputation, my ranking would be:

1-5. Yale=Chicago=Cornell=UWash=Northwestern
6. NYU
7. BU
8. AE-Montefiore
9. Tufts

Also I would get the Cardiology fellowship match lists for the last 3 to 4years for the programs you are debating between (if they don't give it out at the interview, you can ask the program coordinator about getting one). This would give you a good idea about the type of fellowships these programs consistently send their residents.
You will be surprised about the discrepancy between some of the fellowship match lists and the perceived reputation on SDN of the IM programs.
 
(Hey guys, older user, new name for privacy reasons)

Help me out with my ROL. Interviewed too many places I think, mostly to play it safe since I'm couples matching. I'm interested in going into GI.

UMichigan
Wash U
Case Western
U Pitt
UChicago
BIDMC
Cornell
Yale
Hopkins-Osler
UMaryland
UVA
Duke
Georgetown
Brown
 
Those are not the IM stats. Almost ALL american grads match in their top 3. You must have gotten some bad info.


Actually, those are the match stats.

Check NRMP website for 2009 Match Results. There is also a ppt that NRMP put together that describes the stats for unmatched applicants. I just wonder... 8-9 programs for individual applicants. what does that mean for couples?
 
Hi I need some rank list help. I'm interested in cardiology. I have 2 pubs done. Another 2 on the way. I have a son so I'm not so hot into publishing anything for the first 2 years of residency. Im looking for strong clinical training to complete my resume.

Michigan
UTSW
UVa
Mayo-Rochester
Yale- Primary Care
Hopkins bayview
Maryland
Florida Gainesville
UH/Case Western
UT Houston
Cleveland Clinic
Wayne State
Cincinnati
Florida -Jacksonville
 
This is partially a rank order question for myself and also partially regarding the advice given to other people for their lists.

I'm interested in going back home to NYC to train for residency/fellowship and am interested in cardiology. I've been fortunate enough to interview at all of the big programs in Manhattan.

My question mainly is why is Cornell put on such a pedestal on SDN? Maybe I'm being a little biased because I didn't get a great feel for the program when I interviewed there, but especially for cardiology, Cornell doesn't seem particularly strong to me. Looking at the match lists, Columbia is obviously a cut above the rest. Cornell seems to have a great list last year, but the previous ones don't seem very strong to me. They match a lot at Beth Israel in Manhattan, which is a great community program, but let's face it, is no academic powerhouse. They also do match in-house, which is a plus, but I haven't heard very great things about their cardiology program (although I've heard their EP deparment is excellent). Mount Sinai's cardiology match to me seems better overall and especially for me since I will want to stay in NYC. NYU's is good, but seems to be a cut below the rest

So why is Cornell so highly ranked on SDN? Is it a heme/onc bias (which I'm not interested in at all) that drives people's perceptions that Cornell must be great for cardiology too? Not trying to belittle the program, I'm just trying to decide if lowering Cornell on my list will hurt me long-term.
 
This is partially a rank order question for myself and also partially regarding the advice given to other people for their lists.

I'm interested in going back home to NYC to train for residency/fellowship and am interested in cardiology. I've been fortunate enough to interview at all of the big programs in Manhattan.

My question mainly is why is Cornell put on such a pedestal on SDN? Maybe I'm being a little biased because I didn't get a great feel for the program when I interviewed there, but especially for cardiology, Cornell doesn't seem particularly strong to me. Looking at the match lists, Columbia is obviously a cut above the rest. Cornell seems to have a great list last year, but the previous ones don't seem very strong to me. They match a lot at Beth Israel in Manhattan, which is a great community program, but let's face it, is no academic powerhouse. They also do match in-house, which is a plus, but I haven't heard very great things about their cardiology program (although I've heard their EP deparment is excellent). Mount Sinai's cardiology match to me seems better overall and especially for me since I will want to stay in NYC. NYU's is good, but seems to be a cut below the rest

So why is Cornell so highly ranked on SDN? Is it a heme/onc bias (which I'm not interested in at all) that drives people's perceptions that Cornell must be great for cardiology too? Not trying to belittle the program, I'm just trying to decide if lowering Cornell on my list will hurt me long-term.


Based on fellowship potential in cards, I would say
1. Columbia
2. Mt Sinai=Cornell=NYU.

Cornell just has the ivy league name. In reality, Mt. Sinai is also just as good as a medical school as Cornell. And NYU is no slouch itself. Presbyterian may give you more clinical research opportunities. But in NYC, most people would say Cornell and Mt. Sinai are on the same level as far as IM programs go.
 
Hi I need some rank list help. I'm interested in cardiology. I have 2 pubs done. Another 2 on the way. I have a son so I'm not so hot into publishing anything for the first 2 years of residency. Im looking for strong clinical training to complete my resume.

Michigan
UTSW
UVa
Mayo-Rochester
Yale- Primary Care
Hopkins bayview
Maryland
Florida Gainesville
UH/Case Western
UT Houston
Cleveland Clinic
Wayne State
Cincinnati
Florida -Jacksonville

Michigan =UTSW =Hopkins bayview >Mayo-Rochester >UVa >Yale- Primary Care

I also heard that FL-Gainesville is solid.
 
(Hey guys, older user, new name for privacy reasons)

Help me out with my ROL. Interviewed too many places I think, mostly to play it safe since I'm couples matching. I'm interested in going into GI.

UMichigan
Wash U
Case Western
U Pitt
UChicago
BIDMC
Cornell
Yale
Hopkins-Osler
UMaryland
UVA
Duke
Georgetown
Brown

You can't go wrong with a list like that.
1. Hopkins
2. Duke
3. Wash U
4. BIDMC=Yale=Michigan=Cornell
8. Pitt
9. UVa=Maryland

I wouldn't bother ranking after that. Couples match usually doesn't have much worse of an outcome as regulars. They wouldn't invite you as a couple to interview if they weren't interested. A lot of programs probably like the stability that a couple can bring.
 
(Hey guys, older user, new name for privacy reasons)

Help me out with my ROL. Interviewed too many places I think, mostly to play it safe since I'm couples matching. I'm interested in going into GI.

UMichigan
Wash U
Case Western
U Pitt
UChicago
BIDMC
Cornell
Yale
Hopkins-Osler
UMaryland
UVA
Duke
Georgetown
Brown

I have not seen Hopkins match list (did not apply there) but I am sure it is phenomenal. As for the rest:

JHU >/= Duke> UMich/WashU> BIDMC/Cornell/Yale> UofC/UPitt/UVa> CW
 
This is partially a rank order question for myself and also partially regarding the advice given to other people for their lists.

I'm interested in going back home to NYC to train for residency/fellowship and am interested in cardiology. I've been fortunate enough to interview at all of the big programs in Manhattan.

My question mainly is why is Cornell put on such a pedestal on SDN? Maybe I'm being a little biased because I didn't get a great feel for the program when I interviewed there, but especially for cardiology, Cornell doesn't seem particularly strong to me. Looking at the match lists, Columbia is obviously a cut above the rest. Cornell seems to have a great list last year, but the previous ones don't seem very strong to me. They match a lot at Beth Israel in Manhattan, which is a great community program, but let's face it, is no academic powerhouse. They also do match in-house, which is a plus, but I haven't heard very great things about their cardiology program (although I've heard their EP deparment is excellent). Mount Sinai's cardiology match to me seems better overall and especially for me since I will want to stay in NYC. NYU's is good, but seems to be a cut below the rest

So why is Cornell so highly ranked on SDN? Is it a heme/onc bias (which I'm not interested in at all) that drives people's perceptions that Cornell must be great for cardiology too? Not trying to belittle the program, I'm just trying to decide if lowering Cornell on my list will hurt me long-term.

Cornell has a very good name, but I think the consensus is that in NYC the best IM programs are Columbia=/> MSSM> Cornell> NYU> Monte.
 
Hi I need some rank list help. I'm interested in cardiology. I have 2 pubs done. Another 2 on the way. I have a son so I'm not so hot into publishing anything for the first 2 years of residency. Im looking for strong clinical training to complete my resume.

Michigan
UTSW
UVa
Mayo-Rochester
Yale- Primary Care
Hopkins bayview
Maryland
Florida Gainesville
UH/Case Western
UT Houston
Cleveland Clinic
Wayne State
Cincinnati
Florida -Jacksonville


cardiology PDs favor actual 'rigor' of your residency program and its perceived reputation..

Michigan> UTSW= mayo>rest except UF Jacksonville
 
True..but in this guy's case, he has two of the top 3 programs in the country. You are a lucky guy, matthewcas. Just choose to go where you will enjoy living in - east, west, midwest...if you dont mind rochester and are focusing on "delivery of care", mayo has a very well- reputed GI fellowship program as well, and they do take in-house. So if I were you, I would think more regionally, fit and where you would like to live. If San Francisco or Boston is where it is, you know you then have the privilege of eventually possibly pick the fellowship of your choice wherever you want.


please explain "delivery of care".. I am very intrigued....
 
cardiology PDs favor actual 'rigor' of your residency program and its perceived reputation..

Michigan> UTSW= mayo>rest except UF Jacksonville

I could be wrong, but I highly doubt that UTSW is less rigorous than UMich, and equivalent to Mayo (noted to have one of the cushiest IM programs in the nation). Again, I could be wrong.
 
Interested in academic medicine and Heme/Onc. Here is my list in alphabetical order:

  1. Baylor-Houston
  2. Baylor-Dallas
  3. Duke
  4. Cornell
  5. MGH
  6. Monte
  7. UNC
  8. UTSW
:confused:
 
I'm thinking of ranking

1. Cedars Sinai
2. UCLA Harbor
3. U Colorado
4. Wash U
5. UTSW
6. UAB

I'm interested in having a research career doing translational research.
I may do a cards fellowship I may not. About 50/50.

I like surfing and skiing and the outdoors. My best friend lives in LA but I'm not from SoCal.

I am wondering if I would be shooting myself in the foot ranking programs that are less well regarded above ones with a strong national reputation.

What do you guys think?
 
Interested in academic medicine and Heme/Onc. Here is my list in alphabetical order:

  1. Baylor-Houston
  2. Baylor-Dallas
  3. Duke
  4. Cornell
  5. MGH
  6. Monte
  7. UNC
  8. UTSW
:confused:

Easy
1. MGH
2. Duke
3. UTSW
4. Cornell
5. UNC
6. Montefiore
7. Baylor Houston
8. Baylor Dallas

I would argue #3-6 are relatively equivalent and have to do more with the type of training program you want and where you want to live.
I would not recommend Baylor Dallas its program is geared toward creating private practice physicians. All other programs you listed will serve you extremely well and you can achieve a solid academic career with any of them. I would not worry and pick based on your preference. However Duke and MGH would clearly give your career a strong boost.
However, I'm basing this solely on the general reputation of the programs. I have no knowledge of Heme/Onc in particular.
 
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So, I'm from the South and looking for an academic program that can put me in a decent shot for fellowship in cards. Currently have 1 first author pub, as well as 1 abstract about about 5 or 6 poster presentations. Would prefer a place that has a collegial environment and a chance to enjoy life outside of the hospital.

List:

Baylor-Houston
BIDMC
Duke
Penn
UT-Houston
UTSW
Vanderbilt
Wash U


Thanks!!!
 
Hi everyone, here's a part of mine. Want to go into Pccm or hem-onc. Looking for a program that is strong academically with solid IM training.

Case
Cleveland clinic ohio
BU
St. louis university, MO
JH Bayview
Thomas Jefferson
U Arkansas
SUNY downstate
 
please explain "delivery of care".. I am very intrigued....


I interviewed at Mayo-R and have interacted with a few of their physicians and researchers outside of my interview as well. From what I have understood, the entire institution is geared towards "the most effective delivery of care to the patient". This is almost all pervasive and really seems to influence everything in that institution. E.g. a lot of research is focused on constantly improving outcomes - to the point that it is often the dominant kind of research happening there. Not that there is any issue (its a good thing) but thats what I mean. And they will keep polishing their outcomes till they are perfect.

In order to deliver the most effective care, they obviously will not throw residents into the fire. e.g. in a few institutions like BU, Baylor and from what I hear UTSW, you are often given loads of autonomy and responsibility. But in Mayo, it appeared to be more graded. People complain there arent enough procedures, but from what I made out on my interview day, you need to achieve a certain level of competence, through their simulation center (which is phenomenal), before you can have a go at the patients freely.

So from what I made out, it is a "system of functioning" - and you learn how to function in such a system. How to develop the appropriate competence, and look into many issues in order to manage patients. This can often frustrate those who "learn by doing" and want to have a go at things from the first day itself.

Also, because of the kind of research done, they do not do as much bench research as some of the other academic institutions. So if that is something that you are seriously looking at, you may have to bend your bench research interests in order to match those of the faculty at Mayo, That is something you may or may not want to do. And obviously the options are limited.

So thats what I meant by delivery of care. If you want to learn how to really go the evidence-based way to continually (and almost microscopically) improve outcomes, and focus on minimizing errors, etc. I felt that Mayo just does a phenomenal job teaching you that. I am sure a few other programs do too, but I just felt Mayo functioned at another level (I did not visit some of the real big name programs, so I cant comment on those).
 
I could be wrong, but I highly doubt that UTSW is less rigorous than UMich, and equivalent to Mayo (noted to have one of the cushiest IM programs in the nation). Again, I could be wrong.

after interviewing at both umich and utsw, umich is the less rigorous of the two programs from what i observed... in terms of reputation, umich beats utsw even though both programs seem to draw most of their housestaff from their respective region
 
after interviewing at both umich and utsw, umich is the less rigorous of the two programs from what i observed... in terms of reputation, umich beats utsw even though both programs seem to draw most of their housestaff from their respective region


I agree.. But I was factoring in reputation as well. UTSW might be clinically more rigorours than mayo, but I wonder if Mayo scores higher on the reputation scale because of the US news hospitals rankings..
 
I interviewed at Mayo-R and have interacted with a few of their physicians and researchers outside of my interview as well. From what I have understood, the entire institution is geared towards "the most effective delivery of care to the patient". This is almost all pervasive and really seems to influence everything in that institution. E.g. a lot of research is focused on constantly improving outcomes - to the point that it is often the dominant kind of research happening there. Not that there is any issue (its a good thing) but thats what I mean. And they will keep polishing their outcomes till they are perfect.

In order to deliver the most effective care, they obviously will not throw residents into the fire. e.g. in a few institutions like BU, Baylor and from what I hear UTSW, you are often given loads of autonomy and responsibility. But in Mayo, it appeared to be more graded. People complain there arent enough procedures, but from what I made out on my interview day, you need to achieve a certain level of competence, through their simulation center (which is phenomenal), before you can have a go at the patients freely.

So from what I made out, it is a "system of functioning" - and you learn how to function in such a system. How to develop the appropriate competence, and look into many issues in order to manage patients. This can often frustrate those who "learn by doing" and want to have a go at things from the first day itself.

Also, because of the kind of research done, they do not do as much bench research as some of the other academic institutions. So if that is something that you are seriously looking at, you may have to bend your bench research interests in order to match those of the faculty at Mayo, That is something you may or may not want to do. And obviously the options are limited.

So thats what I meant by delivery of care. If you want to learn how to really go the evidence-based way to continually (and almost microscopically) improve outcomes, and focus on minimizing errors, etc. I felt that Mayo just does a phenomenal job teaching you that. I am sure a few other programs do too, but I just felt Mayo functioned at another level (I did not visit some of the real big name programs, so I cant comment on those).


thanks for your response.... so what you are trying to get at is that Mayo residents are perhaps better at systems-based practice than some of their colleagues.... but I do wonder if this translates in to superior performance in different health care systems...or in other words how would a Mayo graduate do in comparison to another medicine ( you could choose your favorite program) graduate if you could hypothetically speaking sequentially put them in Africa and a high tech private hospital? I dont know...
 
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Wow great thread going on here thanks for the input.

I think FMGs are the ones who would require this type of advice the most since a lot of us do not have any specific attachment i.e. family/business/SO in most of the programs.

As most of you on this thread I am also interested in Cardiology placement.
I would appreciate your help in ranking the following:

- Boston University
- Tufts
- University of Alabama
- Emory
- Cleveland Clinic
- Georges Washington University
- Washington University at St. Louis
- University of Cincinnati
- Baylor College of Medicine
- Loyola University
- Cooper University at UMDNJ
- St. Louis University


Thanks!
 
Wow great thread going on here thanks for the input.

I think FMGs are the ones who would require this type of advice the most since a lot of us do not have any specific attachment i.e. family/business/SO in most of the programs.

As most of you on this thread I am also interested in Cardiology placement.
I would appreciate your help in ranking the following:

- Boston University
- Tufts
- University of Alabama
- Emory
- Cleveland Clinic
- Georges Washington University
- Washington University at St. Louis
- University of Cincinnati
- Baylor College of Medicine
- Loyola University
- Cooper University at UMDNJ
- St. Louis University


Thanks!

what visa are you looking for??

In terms of perceived reputation I would place
Washington University > BU ( that is if you want a fellowship in Boston)> Emory=UAB > baylor> Tufts=cleveland clinic? george washington and then others...

Another thing that I would specifically examine ( if you have that data) would be to look at individual IMG outcomes for cardiology at each of these programs.. I know one IMG who went to Wash U for medicine, and then to Iowa for cardiology as Wash U is not IMG friendly for cardiology

If you were to look at the 'good' programs on your list in terms of IMG-friendliness in their cardiology divisions, i would say that EMORY, UAB and Baylor are fairly IMG friendly ( as they have sizable IMG faculty in respective divisions)..

good luck!
 
what visa are you looking for??

In terms of perceived reputation I would place
Washington University > BU ( that is if you want a fellowship in Boston)> Emory=UAB > baylor> Tufts=cleveland clinic? george washington and then others...

Another thing that I would specifically examine ( if you have that data) would be to look at individual IMG outcomes for cardiology at each of these programs.. I know one IMG who went to Wash U for medicine, and then to Iowa for cardiology as Wash U is not IMG friendly for cardiology

If you were to look at the 'good' programs on your list in terms of IMG-friendliness in their cardiology divisions, i would say that EMORY, UAB and Baylor are fairly IMG friendly ( as they have sizable IMG faculty in respective divisions)..

good luck!

If he is in fact Canadian, like the info under his name would suggest, it might not be as big of a deal..especially if he's coming from one of the big doctor factories up there.
 
after interviewing at both umich and utsw, umich is the less rigorous of the two programs from what i observed... in terms of reputation, umich beats utsw even though both programs seem to draw most of their housestaff from their respective region


I think UMich gets more of a wide spread. You'll get people from Hopkins or Harvard or many of the other top med schools going there. UTSW has much more of a regional flavor, but also has a fair number of imgs..Although as I've stated many times, the imgs that programs like this get are absolute super stars. Reputation wise, I think hands down UMich has a bigger reputation.
 
Couples matching...we both interviewed at entirely too many programs. Some of them aren't making the rank list due to lack of overlap, etc. (UWash, Ohio State and Pitt, among others)

Anyway, interested in academic general internal medicine/hospitalist. strong interest in health policy. small interest in critical care and h/o, but HIGHLY unlikely to do a fellowship b/c of aforementioned health policy interest.

(by geography, not by rank):

Stanford
U. Chicago
Michigan
Wash U
Mayo (Rochester)
Vanderbilt
Emory
Duke
UNC
UVA
VCU/MCV
Hopkins-Bayview
Maryland
Penn
Cornell
NYU
Mount Sinai
Montefiore
Yale
Dartmouth
MGH
BIDMC

:rolleyes: :eek: :confused: (all at once.)
 
Couples matching...we both interviewed at entirely too many programs. Some of them aren't making the rank list due to lack of overlap, etc. (UWash, Ohio State and Pitt, among others)

Anyway, interested in academic general internal medicine/hospitalist. strong interest in health policy. small interest in critical care and h/o, but HIGHLY unlikely to do a fellowship b/c of aforementioned health policy interest.

(by geography, not by rank):

Stanford
U. Chicago
Michigan
Wash U
Mayo (Rochester)
Vanderbilt
Emory
Duke
UNC
UVA
VCU/MCV
Hopkins-Bayview
Maryland
Penn
Cornell
NYU
Mount Sinai
Montefiore
Yale
Dartmouth
MGH
BIDMC

:rolleyes: :eek: :confused: (all at once.)

I would think UW would be good for public policy, too bad that isn't an option.

1. MGH
2. Duke
3. UPenn
4. Cornell
5. BIDMC
6. Yale=Stanford
8. Michigan=UChicago
10. NYU


I think if you look in the NEJM, you can figure out which programs tend to have the most articles on public policy published. I would say BIDMC, MGH, Duke, Penn, Yale and NYU seem to get their fair share, for whatever that is worth. Also, if you are interested in staying at that hospital after IM for a career as a GIM attending, I would consider which of those programs in fact have a primary care track, even if you're applying categorical. I believe the vast majority of top programs do gave a PC/GIM track.
 
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I would think UW would be good for public policy, too bad that isn't an option.

1. MGH
2. Duke
3. UPenn
4. Cornell
5. BIDMC
6. Yale=Stanford
8. Michigan=UChicago
10. NYU


I think if you look in the NEJM, you can figure out which programs tend to have the most articles on public policy published. I would say BIDMC, MGH, Duke, Penn, Yale and NYU seem to get their fair share, for whatever that is worth. Also, if you are interested in staying at that hospital after IM for a career as a GIM attending, I would consider which of those programs in fact have a primary care track, even if you're applying categorical. I believe the vast majority of top programs do gave a PC/GIM track.

If you want to do public policy then I would strongly consider going to a residency program that is affiliated with The Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Program (Penn, Michigan, Yale, and UCLA). These institutions are epicenters for health services and health policy research. In the policy and health services research world, being a clinical scholar opens many doors with regard to career opportunities.

With your additional interest in critical care, Penn moves higher on the list. From a fellowship standpoint - most would agree that Penn has a stronger Pulmonary/Critical Care fellowship (can get a Master's in Health Policy Research during fellowship - free of charge). It's affiliated with Wharton, the Leonard Davis Institute for Health Economics, etc. Sweet place for policy work.
 
If you want to do public policy then I would strongly consider going to a residency program that is affiliated with The Robert Wood Johnson Clinical Scholars Program (Penn, Michigan, Yale, and UCLA). These institutions are epicenters for health services and health policy research. In the policy and health services research world, being a clinical scholar opens many doors with regard to career opportunities.

With your additional interest in critical care, Penn moves higher on the list. From a fellowship standpoint - most would agree that Penn has a stronger Pulmonary/Critical Care fellowship (can get a Master's in Health Policy Research during fellowship - free of charge). It's affiliated with Wharton, the Leonard Davis Institute for Health Economics, etc. Sweet place for policy work.

Agree w/ souljah1 re: consideration of RWJ programs. Penn sounds like it would be a great fit for you. Would also add that if you're truly interested in becoming an academic hospitalist, UofMichigan has Drs. Sanjay Saint and Scott Flanders who are leaders in the field. Flanders is currently the president of the Society of Hospital Medicine and both are very well published and highly respected.
 
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