Official 2018 Rank Order Lists

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So this isn't going to be a popular position, but I have to disagree here, and disagree quite strongly.

I've been fortunate enough to get to oversee residents at a few programs in my young career, and the quality of the residents at any particular point in their training is directly related to the amount of call they've taken. Reflecting on your patients is great and all, but it's no substitute for seeing a large number of patients that are otherwise similar, and being able to pick up the subtle differences in presentation and being able to tell when something is "off" that you need to worry about...and having the experience to know what you need to do: from actually doing it, multiple times. I take call at a pretty cushy program and I find myself frustrated at the level of resident diagnostic and management skill I see on weekend coverage, and it mostly comes down to "It's already Feburary. You should have more experience with this stuff by now."

People on this thread every year tend to laud programs that ease their interns into the program, but I was fortunate to fall into a program that tosses their trainees into the fire early on and was a lot of work throughout. It allowed me to become a lot more confident as a clinician more quickly in training and allowed me to develop more advanced skills with a better basic foundation. The more you see, the more you know, and the less you miss. It's still psychiatry. Even the worst programs have a pretty good lifestyle during training.


Agreed. I’m just happy that those extra hours will be gathered while being paid moonlighting hours rather than under the residency. More autonomy, harder, and undoubtably some of the best experience we can get. Fortunately our staff are supportive in these endeavors and often willing to share advice even “off service” when needed.

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Hello! I'm new to the forums and deciding between a few schools. The first two are better locations for me (support systems, etc), but I am torn because I know UTSW and Wash U. St. Louis seem much stronger. Any advice on how you'd rank these or would you say they're comparable?

1)UC Irvine-doesn't seem like there's much on SDN about this program

2)Rutgers-seems like mostly positive feedback from what I read and I also felt the same

3) UTSW-friendly residents

4) Wash U. St. Louis-read about this on other threads but other than that I didn't walk away with a good feel of what to expect with the program
 
Hello! I'm new to the forums and deciding between a few schools. The first two are better locations for me (support systems, etc), but I am torn because I know UTSW and Wash U. St. Louis seem much stronger. Any advice on how you'd rank these or would you say they're comparable?

1)UC Irvine-doesn't seem like there's much on SDN about this program

2)Rutgers-seems like mostly positive feedback from what I read and I also felt the same

3) UTSW-friendly residents

4) Wash U. St. Louis-read about this on other threads but other than that I didn't walk away with a good feel of what to expect with the program
UTSW ended up being my favorite program due to variety of elective/selective time, resident input in the program, and incorporation of community psych opportunities. Also the cost of living relative to salary is amazing.

That said, I know nothing about UC Irvine or Rutgers. I'd go for wherever you think you'll be happiest, unless you have some sort of strong inclination for some subset of psychiatry or want to pursue academia. What are your career goals/ preferences?
 
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Hello! I'm new to the forums and deciding between a few schools. The first two are better locations for me (support systems, etc), but I am torn because I know UTSW and Wash U. St. Louis seem much stronger. Any advice on how you'd rank these or would you say they're comparable?

1)UC Irvine-doesn't seem like there's much on SDN about this program

2)Rutgers-seems like mostly positive feedback from what I read and I also felt the same

3) UTSW-friendly residents

4) Wash U. St. Louis-read about this on other threads but other than that I didn't walk away with a good feel of what to expect with the program
They're not schools, they're jobs.

I only looked at UTSW out of your list. I liked it a lot, I think it was my #4 or so.
 
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Hey,

I am having a tough time with my rank order list. I am not sure I should arrange these 3 programs:

1. Richmond University Medical Center- Staten Island, NY

2. Saint Elizabeths Hospital-Washington DC

3. Stony Brook University/Mather's Hospital- Long Island, NY

I am looking to see where I would get the best experience, for possibility a fellowship in CAP in the future. I do not care too much about the location (rural vs. city).
 
Struggling with the middle of my list. It changes everyday. I've mentioned it before but its so competitive this year I'm preparing to go to at least to the middle of my list and as a result I'm putting a lot of thought into it.

Based on reputation of strength of training, can anyone help me rank these? I'm not afraid of working hard and want to leave residency well prepared.

Boston University
Albert Eintstein/Montefiore
HSS
Umass at Worcester
University of Maryland
Rutgers RWJMS
University of Rochester in NY
 
Struggling with the middle of my list. It changes everyday. I've mentioned it before but its so competitive this year I'm preparing to go to at least to the middle of my list and as a result I'm putting a lot of thought into it.

Based on reputation of strength of training, can anyone help me rank these? I'm not afraid of working hard and want to leave residency well prepared.

Boston University
Albert Eintstein/Montefiore
HSS
Umass at Worcester
University of Maryland
Rutgers RWJMS
University of Rochester in NY

Overall, a really solid list for your "middle." I would have Maryland and BostonU at the top... both have extremely strong reputations with excellent fellowship placement. HSS and RWJ both have too much driving between sites (not a deal breaker, but when you're exhausted and just want to go home, it can suck in traffic). HSS is too much VA and the facilities are mehhh. Don't know much about Rochester other than the town is a low-key gem if you can tolerate the winters. But as far as reputation, Maryland and BU would afford you every opportunity to pursue whatever kind of career you wanted.
 
Struggling with the middle of my list. It changes everyday. I've mentioned it before but its so competitive this year I'm preparing to go to at least to the middle of my list and as a result I'm putting a lot of thought into it.

Based on reputation of strength of training, can anyone help me rank these? I'm not afraid of working hard and want to leave residency well prepared.

Boston University
Albert Eintstein/Montefiore
HSS
Umass at Worcester
University of Maryland
Rutgers RWJMS
University of Rochester in NY

Two residents in my class did med school at Rochester. They described their residency program at their home institution as very chill and with minimal call responsibilities. They were not super impressed with most of the residents they worked with. This is the extent of my knowledge.
 
Overall, a really solid list for your "middle." I would have Maryland and BostonU at the top... both have extremely strong reputations with excellent fellowship placement. HSS and RWJ both have too much driving between sites (not a deal breaker, but when you're exhausted and just want to go home, it can suck in traffic). HSS is too much VA and the facilities are mehhh. Don't know much about Rochester other than the town is a low-key gem if you can tolerate the winters. But as far as reputation, Maryland and BU would afford you every opportunity to pursue whatever kind of career you wanted.

Hey, thanks so much for your response. I left BU and Maryland feeling that I would get very strong training at both, particularly Maryland. Location wise, Boston works better for SO and I and I am thinking of ranking BU highly.

My reservation about BU is I did not get to meet many residents on interview day. I think this was more of an artifact of the Saturday interview day but it was a little bizarre. The dinner was mostly an applicant social hour as there were not many residents and 20 of us. I have no idea what the culture is like there. RWJ and HSS were my ideal resident wise; laid back, friendly, and genuine

Two residents in my class did med school at Rochester. They described their residency program at their home institution as very chill and with minimal call responsibilities. They were not super impressed with most of the residents they worked with. This is the extent of my knowledge.

Thank you for that insight! Yes, the minimum call scares me. It was so infrequent it seemed to be a detriment to learning. The hospital system is very strong (I had too) but I am not sure about the program in particular. The residents did not seem very laid back either which was unexpected. It might have just been my dinner cohort.
 
My top two are decided. After that, I am trying to figure out how to order University of Maryland and Emory. They both seem to have everything one could want from a training perspective - multiple sites and types of training (public, private, VA, community), metropolitan area, multiple fellowships, etc. In terms of my interests, I want to try everything but have a sprouted interest in addiction and psychotherapy. I think I would enjoy living in Atlanta more than Baltimore, but I liked the Maryland residents better (and just met more of them). Does anyone have any input beyond location? Feel free to pm me as well.
 
Is there any major difference in workload at Northwestern, University of Maryland, Johns Hopkins, University of Colorado, Boston University, and Dartmouth? It's definitely not the most important variable for me, just the one I'm having the most trouble getting a good sense of for each program. Thanks for any thoughts!
 
Iacta alea est. The list is in, not making any more changes.

Good luck everybody. And thank you for all the discussion here.
 
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Does anyone know about the phlebotomy situation in NYC? Do psych residents (including those in programs outside Manhattan, e.g. Montefiore and Hofstra) have to perform their own blood draws?
 
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Does anyone know about the phlebotomy situation in NYC? Do psych residents (including those in programs outside Manhattan, e.g. Montefiore and Hofstra) have to perform their own blood draws?

It's a bit of a running joke that if you want labs to get done while a patient is an ED in a NYC hospital, you better do it yourself. But that's mainly a concern for off-service rotations.

I haven't heard of psych residents (in NYC) having to do their own lab draws while on psychiatry rotations.
 
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I haven't heard of psych residents having to do their own lab draws while on psychiatry rotations.
when i was a resident, I used to draw pt labs, blood cultures, and blood gases on psychiatry wards and teach my students how to do so. but that was by choice.
 
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Can anyone tell the future? I'm very interested to know, feel free to pm me. Thanks!
 
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hello, can anyone comment on duke's update re the new addition? the email says that there will be no changes to the PGY1-2 rotations but what about the PGY3-4 years?
 
Running out of time :(
How would you guys rank the UT Schools - specifically, UTSW, UTMB, UT-Houston, UT-Austin, UT-Galveston, and UT-Tyler
ks6xr.jpg


(don't hate me)
 
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Running out of time :(
How would you guys rank the UT Schools - UT-SW, UT-MB, UT-Houston, UT-Austin, UT-Galveston, UT-SA, and UT-Tyler

Must really like UTMB since you mentioned it twice heh. I interviewed at all except houston and dallas. I think geography will play a role in where you want. For instance, my favorite from the list is SA.
 
Final list. Any changes you guys recommend?

1) Home city program
2) UTMB
3) OU
4) JPS
5) Harvard South Shore
6) UT-Austin
7) Temple
8 onward are all undesirable locations so I won't be changing those
 
Programs have the same rank list deadline as us, correct?
 
Good luck everyone! :) I'll probably see some of you in July if you come to any Boston programs!
 
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Also having a tough time with this one. I'll be ranking NYU very highly but not sure exactly where just yet. Like you said the breadth/extremity/volume of training is hard to beat and there is no doubt you would come out an extremely competent psychiatrist. That said I'm also held up on some of the vibes. I found the difference between NYU residents and those residents at most other interviews to be quite noticeable, with an overwhelming consensus that the program is extraordinarily hard and demanding with some going as far as second guessing their decision to train there/also wondering if has been worth it. When it's clear that most other programs really try and put on the best possible face on interview day, I found this tough to grapple with and also wonder whether the outcome is worth the demands. Some also mentioned "quirks" in the call schedule (which was oddly difficult to get at relative to most other programs) that are still not worked out. All of the attendings seemed phenomenal though, and the ethos of the place shines through and is really quite something.

yeah...now that rank lists have been submitted.. This year, I heard that they started calling in interns who were not on back up call to cover shifts. I hear people rave about the program but am still confused as to how it could be so wonderful when it seems that they don't really try to protect their residents from burn out..i don't know--maybe it's hard for administration to control, when there is such high volume..?
 
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UCSF
Stanford
UCSD
UPENN
USC
UNC
Duke

I ranked on resident reported psychoanalytic institute involvement, location, in house addiction and public psychiatry fellowship opportunities, dedicated psychER in house, psych primary care integration clinic opportunities, and psychedelic research opportunities.
 
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UCSF
Stanford
UCSD
UPENN
USC
UNC
Duke

I ranked on resident reported psychoanalytic institute involvement, location, in house addiction and public psychiatry fellowship opportunities, dedicated psychER in house, psych primary care integration clinic opportunities, and psychedelic research opportunities.
Strong list.

Just curious why a dedicated psych ER is a factor in your decision-making?
 
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So I'm not really concerned about prestige or reputation of programs, but I'm curious about what people think of some of these places from my interview season. Especially since most of the places I interviewed at haven't even been mentioned. So I'm curious as to what people think about the following programs in terms of both quality and reputation:

University of Connecticut
University of Kansas- KC and Wichita
UMKC
Missouri-Columbia
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center (OKC)

Not my entire rank list, but curious about these programs because I ended up feeling either a lot better or worse about some of them than I initially thought I would.
 
So I'm not really concerned about prestige or reputation of programs, but I'm curious about what people think of some of these places from my interview season. Especially since most of the places I interviewed at haven't even been mentioned. So I'm curious as to what people think about the following programs in terms of both quality and reputation:

University of Connecticut
University of Kansas- KC and Wichita
UMKC
Missouri-Columbia
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center (OKC)

Not my entire rank list, but curious about these programs because I ended up feeling either a lot better or worse about some of them than I initially thought I would.

Same here. Seems like half the people on here want Boston, NYC or Harvard/Yale.

Of the programs you listed, I only interviewed at Mizzou. I really liked their faculty, facilities, etc. Also liked that they’re rebuilding their forensics department since that’s something I’m interested in.

I ended up ranking them pretty low though, mostly because of location. The only other “con” was that the residents didn’t seem too close-knit. Friendly enough group, though.
 
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I made an emotional change in my list on Monday and regretting it. Can't change it so moving on but I hope I don't fall down my list to #9 where I put it. It's a competitive year so who knows.
 
The odds of matching a 9th program are very slim. If you don't match in your top 8, it is more likely you will go unmatched and neither are likely. Good luck.
 
LIJ
UCSD
Carolinas Medical Center
Morehouse
OSU
Medical College of Wisconsin
Arrowhead
UofRochester
UCincy
IU
UK
Community (Indy)

Thoughts? Ranked by location mainly. I’d be happy to share what I think about any of the above programs as well.
 
So I'm not really concerned about prestige or reputation of programs, but I'm curious about what people think of some of these places from my interview season. Especially since most of the places I interviewed at haven't even been mentioned. So I'm curious as to what people think about the following programs in terms of both quality and reputation:

University of Connecticut
University of Kansas- KC and Wichita
UMKC
Missouri-Columbia
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center (OKC)

Not my entire rank list, but curious about these programs because I ended up feeling either a lot better or worse about some of them than I initially thought I would.
One of my mentors went through UMKC’s IM/Psych program 10 years ago. She was pretty blunt about the psych part being pretty weak, but she ultimately just ended-up practicing psych (though maintains her IM board certification for whatever god forsaken reason), and felt that she still had a solid foundation that she could easily expand on to address her perceived weaknesses in training. N=1, so idk how helpful that is, but it’s at least one perspective, and what swayed me from applying there.
 
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Of the programs you listed, I only interviewed at Mizzou. I really liked their faculty, facilities, etc. Also liked that they’re rebuilding their forensics department since that’s something I’m interested in.

I ended up ranking them pretty low though, mostly because of location. The only other “con” was that the residents didn’t seem too close-knit. Friendly enough group, though.

I did like their faculty and it seems like a pretty solid program in terms of education. The thing that kind of bothered me a lot was that it kind of felt like the admins (not the psych faculty, the hospital) didn't really seem to care about residents the way a lot of other programs did kind of rub me the wrong way, and some of the things the residents said seemed to kind of confirm that feeling a bit.

I wouldn't mind ending up there at all, but definitely ended up farther down my list than I initially thought it would.

LIJ
UCSD
Carolinas Medical Center
Morehouse
OSU
Medical College of Wisconsin
Arrowhead
UofRochester
UCincy
IU
UK
Community (Indy)

Thoughts? Ranked by location mainly. I’d be happy to share what I think about any of the above programs as well.

Is that your order? If so, I was actually extremely surprised by how much I ended up enjoying CHN in Indy. Went in with pretty low expectations because it was my first interview, it's a new program, and they're a community program. The sheer size of the hospital and number of cases you could see was something that really stood out to me, and it was by far the most resident-centered program in interviewed at. Plus the moonlighting situation is definitely a nice little bonus. Ended up ranking them much higher than I expected and even considered putting them as my top choice at one point.

@Taddy Mason , thanks. There were definitely some things about the program I liked, but there were also some things that really concerned me, including the general reputation I'd heard from other attendings and students who rotated through there. It's one of those programs I think I'd be moderately happy at, but would be concerned that I wasn't learning everything I needed to.
 
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Strong list.

Just curious why a dedicated psych ER is a factor in your decision-making?

PsychER is a good way to go for moonlighting, if you can find it. I flirt with the idea of starting a private practice (and other creative side projects) and may need a few well paying interim gigs. Love academia, love research and data, not sure if I commit to it in the longest term.
 
I did like their faculty and it seems like a pretty solid program in terms of education. The thing that kind of bothered me a lot was that it kind of felt like the admins (not the psych faculty, the hospital) didn't really seem to care about residents the way a lot of other programs did kind of rub me the wrong


Is that your order? If so, I was actually extremely surprised how much I ended up enjoying CHN in Indy. Went in with pretty low expectations because it was my first interview, it's a new program, and they're a community program. The sheer size of the hospital and number of cases you could see was something that really stood out to me, and it was by far the most resident-centered program in interviewed at. Plus the moonlighting situation is definitely a nice little bonus. Ended up ranking them much higher than I expected and even considered putting them as my top choice at one point.

@Taddy Mason , thanks. There were definitely some things about the program I liked, but there were also some things that really concerned me, including the general reputation I'd heard from other attendings and students who rotated through there. It's one of those programs I think I'd be moderately happy at, but would be concerned that I wasn't learning everything I needed to.
That’s not necessarily my order but very close. CHN certainly had great perks, and that hotel was by far the nicest that was provided. It was a location factor mainly. Other than that, I did not get a warm feeling from the faculty there. I felt they were a bit adversarial in their interviewing. That being said, other people I’ve talked with had different experiences. Different strokes, you know? Some of my friends ranked certain programs much higher than I, even some trying to convince me one way or the other on the order of my list.
 
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The odds of matching a 9th program are very slim. If you don't match in your top 8, it is more likely you will go unmatched and neither are likely. Good luck.

Thanks for the insight. I'm concerned because although this program is a decently strong program, it is farther from family which is important to me. I got cold feet about ranking community programs close to home before this one and regret it. Life is short and I want to be closer to my parents and SO. 2019 lurkers, don't make last minute changes.

My top 8 are all 3 hours from home so hoping that bodes well. I had 28 invites and narrowed down my interview list mostly by location, with #9 and the last ranked being the exceptions.
 
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UCSF
Stanford
UCSD
UPENN
USC
UNC
Duke

I ranked on resident reported psychoanalytic institute involvement, location, in house addiction and public psychiatry fellowship opportunities, dedicated psychER in house, psych primary care integration clinic opportunities, and psychedelic research opportunities.

I imagine tie dye lab coats, colour-tinted Lennon glasses, 3 hour prog rock ballads playing in the background.
 
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So I'm not really concerned about prestige or reputation of programs, but I'm curious about what people think of some of these places from my interview season. Especially since most of the places I interviewed at haven't even been mentioned. So I'm curious as to what people think about the following programs in terms of both quality and reputation:

University of Connecticut
University of Kansas- KC and Wichita
UMKC
Missouri-Columbia
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center (OKC)

Not my entire rank list, but curious about these programs because I ended up feeling either a lot better or worse about some of them than I initially thought I would.

Same here. Seems like half the people on here want Boston, NYC or Harvard/Yale.

Of the programs you listed, I only interviewed at Mizzou. I really liked their faculty, facilities, etc. Also liked that they’re rebuilding their forensics department since that’s something I’m interested in.

I ended up ranking them pretty low though, mostly because of location. The only other “con” was that the residents didn’t seem too close-knit. Friendly enough group, though.

Omg yes you guys ranked Mizzou. At the risk of outing myself ... I'm a como townie and went to med school there. LOVED LOVED LOVED the psych department. These people were the ones who inspired me to go into psych. While it may not be top-10 or whatever, the people are all super friendly and chill. Great group of cohorts with the right philosophy, truly good work/life balance (even for psych standards). I have med school classmates who stayed for residency and they seem to like it well.

(I only left because I didn't want to stay in my hometown for the rest of my life. :p But Como is lovely.)
 
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So I'm not really concerned about prestige or reputation of programs, but I'm curious about what people think of some of these places from my interview season. Especially since most of the places I interviewed at haven't even been mentioned. So I'm curious as to what people think about the following programs in terms of both quality and reputation:

University of Connecticut
University of Kansas- KC and Wichita
UMKC
Missouri-Columbia
University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center (OKC)

Not my entire rank list, but curious about these programs because I ended up feeling either a lot better or worse about some of them than I initially thought I would.

Only one I could speak of is OKC. I liked them and ranked them decently. Even though there were like 9 interviews that day, I enjoyed most except the one with the aPD. He was a nice guy, but he spent half of the 20 minute interview reading my app. All the others were prepared asking me specific questions. Seemed most of their inpatient psych was VA but they do get to go to griffin memorial. I liked the residents and the faculty
 
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Thanks for the insight. I'm concerned because although this program is a decently strong program, it is farther from family which is important to me. I got cold feet about ranking community programs close to home before this one and regret it. Life is short and I want to be closer to my parents and SO. 2019 lurkers, don't make last minute changes.

My top 8 are all 3 hours from home so hoping that bodes well. I had 28 invites and narrowed down my interview list mostly by location, with #9 and the last ranked being the exceptions.

This is nearly exactly my story. Hope everything turns out in your favor!
 
That’s not necessarily my order but very close. CHN certainly had great perks, and that hotel was by far the nicest that was provided. It was a location factor mainly. Other than that, I did not get a warm feeling from the faculty there. I felt they were a bit adversarial in their interviewing. That being said, other people I’ve talked with had different experiences. Different strokes, you know? Some of my friends ranked certain programs much higher than I, even some trying to convince me one way or the other on the order of my list.

Interesting, I actually felt the opposite about the bolded. I noticed they did have their mandatory 4 or 5 questions that they had on their sheets, but I felt like the people I interviewed with were really great and laid back. I especially liked Dr. Cunningham, she seemed really nice and like she could readily step into a PD role if she needed to. Maybe we had different faculty interviewing us?

Omg yes you guys ranked Mizzou. At the risk of outing myself ... I'm a como townie and went to med school there. LOVED LOVED LOVED the psych department. These people were the ones who inspired me to go into psych. While it may not be top-10 or whatever, the people are all super friendly and chill. Great group of cohorts with the right philosophy, truly good work/life balance (even for psych standards). I have med school classmates who stayed for residency and they seem to like it well.

(I only left because I didn't want to stay in my hometown for the rest of my life. :p But Como is lovely.)

PM'd you.

Only one I could speak of is OKC. I liked them and ranked them decently. Even though there were like 9 interviews that day, I enjoyed most except the one with the aPD. He was a nice guy, but he spent half of the 20 minute interview reading my app. All the others were prepared asking me specific questions. Seemed most of their inpatient psych was VA but they do get to go to griffin memorial. I liked the residents and the faculty

Yea, that was a really long day, but I enjoyed it as well. I also really felt like I connected with the PD and most of my professional goals aligned really heavily with what his goals for training residents were. He also seemed really focused on resident education as a whole and the attendings who worked under him as residents held him in very high regard, which really stood out to me. If I were single/location didn't matter it may have actually been my #1, even with it being a very VA heavy program.
 
Interesting, I actually felt the opposite about the bolded. I noticed they did have their mandatory 4 or 5 questions that they had on their sheets, but I felt like the people I interviewed with were really great and laid back. I especially liked Dr. Cunningham, she seemed really nice and like she could readily step into a PD role if she needed to. Maybe we had different faculty interviewing us?



PM'd you.



Yea, that was a really long day, but I enjoyed it as well. I also really felt like I connected with the PD and most of my professional goals aligned really heavily with what his goals for training residents were. He also seemed really focused on resident education as a whole and the attendings who worked under him as residents held him in very high regard, which really stood out to me. If I were single/location didn't matter it may have actually been my #1, even with it being a very VA heavy program.

Yeah the PD was cool with a very interesting niche that he developed with flight/space psychiatry. If I end up there, I would be very happy. I think out of my interviews, I clicked with the residents the best there.
 
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