**Official 2023 Ortho PASS/Interviews/Match/Non-Match**

[#toothqueen]

Just got the email!

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[Kattman]

Just got it!

 

[Parrot$84]

Well… did not match

 

[merag.rm9000]

I did not match this year. Any news for post-match?
I want to thank every one of you because I learned a lot from this forum.
cheers to you all.

 

[GoOU]

I did not match this year. Any news for post-match?
I want to thank every one of you because I learned a lot from this forum.
cheers to you all.

I think they release the unmatched positions around 12pm

 

[merag.rm9000]

How can we apply for post-match?
Should I send the director a direct request or do the match process?

 

[#toothqueen]

On the match website it stated: You should contact the program directly for application instructions. Some programs may accept applications through the ADEA PASS application service, while others may accept applications directly. The Match is not involved with applications during the Post-Match Process.

I don't know much else outside of that..

 

[Ortho-ftd]

Contact (preferably call) the program directly. These seats generally get filled out quickly. Also, show a willingness to fly out and meet with the program. Good luck!

How can we apply for post-match?
Should I send the director a direct request or do the match process?

 

[orthope]

Does anyone know which postmatch positions are available?

 

[porcelainshadeOM1]

Georgia probably has several spots. Last year they had ten open positions

 

[doctorortho]

Georgia has 17 spots

 

[ligatures25]

Georgia has 17 spots

Good you upload a screenshot of the post match positions please? Thank you

 

[doctorortho]

Tbh I called and asked cause. CTOR filled all their spots. But Georgia is ridiculously expensive considering that you can't get loans either.

 

[Docortho1212]

Uploaded post match openings. I can’t find any.

 

[Faefly]

Tbh I called and asked cause. CTOR filled all their spots. But Georgia is ridiculously expensive considering that you can't get loans either.

I had interview at CTOR but I didn't put them because they never said their tuition. so it was very scary for me to go into the unknown. Was my only interview too.
and during interview they mentioned half a million. They were like if you don't get into hospital, you'll probably pay half a million.

 

[Faefly]

Uploaded post match openings. I can’t find any.

what do you mean?

 

[porcelainshadeOM1]

I interviewed at CTOR this year. It's not half a mil. They mentioned a number around 70-75k

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I interviewed at CTOR this year. It's not half a mil. They mentioned a number around 70-75k

Per year. And I’m betting that doesn’t include living expenses. Add that in with accrued interest, and you’re easily around $400,000.

The fact that I can’t find tuition and fee information listed anywhere on their website should be a warning.

Big Hoss

 

[soxinabox90]

Any news about the Jacksonville fellowship?

 

[charlestweed]

I had interview at CTOR but I didn't put them because they never said their tuition. so it was very scary for me to go into the unknown. Was my only interview too.
and during interview they mentioned half a million. They were like if you don't get into hospital, you'll probably pay half a million.

Why did you waste your money on the application for this program and plane ticket/hotel for the interview when you had no intention to attend it (due to cost)? I am just curious

So you would rather work as a GP for the rest of your life than borrowing an additional 500k to become an orthodontist.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Why did you waste your money on the application for this program and plane ticket/hotel for the interview when you had no intention to attend it (due to cost)? I am just curious

So you would rather work as a GP for the rest of your life than borrowing an additional 500k to become an orthodontist.

I guess that depends on your circumstance. Are you fresh out of school? Then ortho is the way to go because you have more time. Been a GP for 10 years? Better to stay a GP and do some ortho CE because it will take a long time to break even on your investment (500k plus not working as a GP for 3 years = over 1 million lost). Probably take a solid 10 years to break even and if you are 40 when you get out, you are 50 before your are even. Better like doing braces…

 

[charlestweed]

I guess that depends on your circumstance. Are you fresh out of school? Then ortho is the way to go because you have more time. Been a GP for 10 years? Better to stay a GP and do some ortho CE because it will take a long time to break even on your investment (500k plus not working as a GP for 3 years = over 1 million lost). Probably take a solid 10 years to break even and if you are 40 when you get out, you are 50 before your are even. Better like doing braces…

If one has been a GP for 5-10 years, one should be able to save some money to pay for his tuition if he decides to go back to school for ortho. Without any debt, his greatest asset is his ability to earn an income and his future earning capacity. Most orthos can work well into the 70s. It's a good retirement gig. It's better than staying home doing nothing.....or babysitting your grand kids.

Not 10 years. It's more like 2-3 years to break even if you can bring your income up to $400k working as an ortho (vs $200k working as a GP). With the average pay of $1500/day, it's possible to earn that much. My corp is hiring right now. Just found out that another ortho gave his notice.

 

[Penn2024]

Can anyone screenshot the openings for the POST Match.

 

[Penn2024]

Georgia has 17 spots

Can you post a screenshot with all the schools with openings.

 

[soxinabox90]

Can you post a screenshot with all the schools with openings.

Tufts had 2 yesterday that look like they've been filled already because they're not there today. Georgia is the only one left with 17 available positions.

 

[Penn2024]

thank you!

 

[Grace17]

Can you post a screenshot with all the schools with openings.

 

[Grace17]

Any idea what bank is willing to borrow 500k for Georgia residency?

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Any idea what bank is willing to borrow 500k for Georgia residency?

Lol no bank. Its either you pay the money, someone pays for you, or you use their 8% loans to cover half the cost and you pay the other half. Don’t forget you gotta live the 3 years you’re there too

 

[Penn2024]

Any idea what bank is willing to borrow 500k for Georgia residency?

I thought its 360 for the 3 years?

 

[Orth0]

I thought its 360 for the 3 years?

Plus living costs

 

[jcldds]

Lol no bank. Its either you pay the money, someone pays for you, or you use their 8% loans to cover half the cost and you pay the other half. Don’t forget you gotta live the 3 years you’re there too

what is this 8% loan? does anyone know if for Georgia you are supposed to pay upfront? they sent me an email with the cost and it said $455K, does anyone know if that includes cost of living?

 

[Penn2024]

View attachment 362348

so what do they do with these open spots?

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

so what do they do with these open spots?

Fill them with people who are willing to dig their own grave....

Big Hoss

 

[charlestweed]

so what do they do with these open spots?

There were 4 positions at my GPR program but the director only ranked 2 students in the match because he wanted to leave the other 2 positions opened so he could select the residents that he wanted outside of match. That's how I got into this GPR program without applying.

I don't know if this Georgia program has the same intention as my GPR director.... and that is to leave some positions opened intentionally so they can pick people (people who can pay, children of famous orthodontists etc) whom they like after the match.

 

[OrthoDreamer19]

Howdy everyone, Congratulations to those who matched.

To those who did not match, I know the feeling. I was in your position more than once. However, I was fortunate to ultimately match. If you would like to talk to anyone about options/things to improve, I am more than happy to talk with you. I am busy, so I cannot promise super quick responses, but I will do my best to get back to you in a timely-ish manner. This is free advice based on my experiences and nothing more, but I feel I have some knowledge to share and am willing to help others through the maze, as I know it was a very difficult time for me.

This is not for people applying in future cycles. Only those who failed to match this last cycle. Your school/colleagues have plenty of resources, if you are applying for the first time.

 

[blablabla1]

Congrats ahead of time to all who match tomorrow! Use this template to reduce the number of questions and to help those who don't match and for following years!
Name of Ortho Program:
Dental School Attended:
Year Earned DMD/DDS:
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency:
International Student (yes/no):
NBDE Part I/II scores:
ADAT Score:
GRE Score:
Class Rank:
Match/Non-Match:
Externship(s)/where:
Research:
Extracurriculars:
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked:

I will say that this tradition of people posting this helped me tremendously back when I was applying to ortho programs (atleast for some level of peace of mind). Less and less people have been doing so but I think it's a good way to pay it forward to future applicants to give them some level of what the expectation is on how many programs to apply to, what to strengthen with their application, etc. Don't even need to include the ortho program or your current dental school, just general stats helps

 

[LookatThisDebt]

Name of Ortho Program: Midwest Program
Dental School Attended: West Coast
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: N/A
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE scores: Passed before applying
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: V:160 Q:159 W: 5.0
Class Rank: N/A
Match/Non-Match: Only applied to MATCH programs
Externship(s)/where: N/A
Research: 2 years of dental school research with one publication
Extracurriculars: A lot of experience in leadership pertaining to community outreach/community service and advocacy
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 33/13/10/10

 

[Ortho-ftd]

so what do they do with these open spots?

They would ask to apply through PASS and would schedule interviews. They said they would release results along with phase II. I inquired about it but did not apply (no judging, but I just wanted to give myself one more shot). Not sure if the process has now changed

If they accept private loans, students might not be needed to pay upfront or at a flat 8% interest rate. Granted, interest rates, in general, are high these days, but you can have a cosigner to help bring down the rate.

Also, +1 for @blablabla1 ; Match posts helped me tremendously when I was reapplying

 

[Faefly]

Why did you waste your money on the application for this program and plane ticket/hotel for the interview when you had no intention to attend it (due to cost)? I am just curious

So you would rather work as a GP for the rest of your life than borrowing an additional 500k to become an orthodontist.

I have my personal reasons. I don't mind paying additional 500k to get into ortho. It's the fact that the program never mentioned the cost of attendance was very uncalled for. They didn't explain if it was possible to get financial aid or anything.. Nothing was explained.

Regardless, it seems like a nice program, and congratulations to anyone who got there,

 

[dolichodefender]

Name of Ortho Program: Midwest Program
Dental School Attended: UCLA
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: N/A
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE scores: Passed before applying
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: V:164 Q:170 W: 5.0
Class Rank: N/A
Match/Non-Match: Only applied to MATCH programs
Externship(s)/where: None
Research: Conducted research during undergrad w/ several co-authored publications, also did research in dental school but no publications.
Extracurriculars: Balanced experience between class leadership and community service-oriented student organizations.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 24/15/10/10

 

[future_nostalgia]

Name of Ortho Program: Midwest Program
Dental School Attended: Northeastern Program
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: N/A
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE scores: Passed before applying
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: V:164 Q:167 W: 5.0
Class Rank: N/A
Match/Non-Match: Only applied to MATCH
Externship(s)/where: None
Research: Conducted more formal research with poster presentations in undergrad and started the process of writing a scoping review during dental school.
Extracurriculars: Mostly community service and music-related extracurriculars. Also have been on class council.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 15/9/7/7

 

[Penn2024]

If application cycles open in may, do ortho programs only care about your grades until may of your 4th year, or do they accept and look at grade updates if youre at 3.4 and by the end of dental school can bump it up to a 3.6 and want to show that?

 

[MIIMtodent]

If application cycles open in may, do ortho programs only care about your grades until may of your 4th year, or do they accept and look at grade updates if youre at 3.4 and by the end of dental school can bump it up to a 3.6 and want to show that?

“Traditionally” people are applying/starting app process in May of their 3rd year. One part of the app is that your Dean of Student Affairs or whatever is the equivalent at your school sends in a form about your GPA, rank, and some other questions.

They do have the option to send an update later in the cycle, so that is the person you should talk to about that!

 

[dds333]

Name of Ortho Program: prefer not to say
Dental School Attended: prefer not to say
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2023
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: N/A
International Student (yes/no): No
INBDE scores: Passed after applying
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: V:153 Q:156 W: 4.5
Class Rank: top 30%, 3.45 GPA (there's hope I promise!)
Match/Non-Match: Only applied to MATCH programs
Externship(s)/where: one externship, visited one program, and shadowed regularly at my dental school's program
Research: research in undergrad and dental school but no publications.
Extracurriculars: Class leadership and community service-oriented student organizations both dental and non-dental.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 33/4/4/4

As you can see, not the most competitive academically but strong letters, personal statement, and extracurriculars can go a long way. Best advice to get your foot in the door for anyone who feels that academics is not their strong suit: apply to as many programs as possible, visit schools, reach out to residents/build connections at your favorite programs, get your name out there, and once you get that interview, absolutely kill it. Best of luck!

 

[GoOU]

Name of Ortho Program: Western program
Dental School Attended: LECOM
Year Earned DMD/DDS: 2022
AEGD/GPR/Fellowship/Residency: GPR
International Student (yes/no): No
NBDE Part I/II scores: Pass
ADAT Score: N/A
GRE Score: Q-154, V-157, W-4.5
Class Rank: 20/102
Match/Non-Match: Match only
Externship(s)/where: 2 externships (no interviews from those programs oddly)
Research: None in undergraduate. Presented one project in dental school and did work on another, no publications.
Extracurriculars: Participated in multiple events through school. Organized an event for the local Y. Volunteer sports coach.
Programs Applied to/Interview Invites/Interviews Attended/Programs Ranked: 12/2/2/2
I applied last year and had 3 interviews, but didn’t get into a program. This cycle I had to apply to less programs due to finances, but still had some interviews. I really worked on interviewing skills and crushed both of them, so I was confident going into the match. One other thing I could have done was improve my GRE (though still an odd metric in my mind for ortho programs). If you didn’t match don’t fret, work hard and you’ll be okay!

 

[Faefly]

View attachment 362348

I could swear there was tuft in there with open positions when I checked at 12:30 pm on the 21st, but then it disapeared. Can they remove themselves?

 

[blablabla1]

I could swear there was tuft in there with open positions when I checked at 12:30 pm on the 21st, but then it disapeared. Can they remove themselves?

Most likely filled them very quickly. They're a pretty established program

 

[Penn2024]

anyone know how many spots are still left at Georgia?

 

[Docortho1212]

anyone know how many spots are still left at Georgia?

I believe 17. On the website it says they start the post match process on Dec 1.